Isn't this interesting...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/12/bo...onfiction.html

Three conservative books in the top 10, and no liberal political books on the list.

And this from the Gallup poll
BO is going to find the 2nd half of his term very difficult :yes:

Obama
 

It appears Obama is actually a conservative. Tracy you should be pleased. :frown::censored:

Fixed it for you.

Selling
 

First of all it is a serious felony, at this site, to alter someone else's post. :lol:
Besides, look at what he is doing;
Selling out to the drug companies.
Selling out health care.
Expanding war in Afghanistan.
Playing footsie with the bankers.
He is looking more like a fucking conservative every day. :frown::censored:

Thanks Postman, I was getting really confused about what Randolph wrote. Must have been a mistake... or he was joking.

Awesome! :lol: One commie down... many more to go.

LOL As of this time, CNN still hasn't broken the news about Van Jones and there's already statements from other congressmen/women about it. CNN's probably thinking... if we don't say anything perhaps no one will know :yes:

You obviously do not know what conservatism is.

Went the same High School as Obama, albeit he grad in '79.
He had a disco fro and smoked the herb from what I understand.
He went by the name Barry.

Conservatism
 

Yes, I think I do know what "real" conservatism is, its Eisenhower conservatism. Its not the Limbaugh, Bush, Reagan, asshole conservatism. I usually vote Democratic because I can't stand whats happened to the Republican party. It's now dominated by mean spirited bigoted self centered lying assholes. The Limbaugh mentality is destroying this country with its distortions and polarization of the public. He encourages the morons in this country to be even more stupid. Eisenhower must be squirming in his grave if he is seeing what is going on. I cry for this country. It's no longer America the beautiful. :broken:

Sorry to break it to you bro, but both parties are like that.

I agree. This country is going down the crapper. You can erode only so much of the foundation of an instution before the whole thing comes crashing down.

Postman, I agree things are bad now. But then when things seem bad I try and get some perspective and remember how bad things were during the 60s. Civil rights movements, Kent State, the Cuban Missile crisis when the world was just minutes away from an all out nuclear war, JFK shot, MLK shot, Veitnam, etc.

Before that there was the Great Depression, and before that was the Civil War when we were literally killing each other. Before that, there was slavery, and taking N. America from the Indians.

So what is so bad about these times Postman that we say NOW our foundation is eroding? Randolph, in light of all these events throughout the history of the US, do you think it ever was America the Beautiful?

I'm trying to quantify what is it that made America great, and ask is that really being threatened now?

America?
 

Tracy, you ask when America was beautiful?
Well lets see;
In the 1930s the unions established the rights of workers to a living wage.
In the 1940s we beat the shit out of the Japs and Nazis.
In the 1950s a working guy could buy a nice house and a new car on a single modest wage and his wife could stay home and raise the kids.
In the 1960s we learned that social action could stop an evil war.
In the 1970s we learned we could get along on less oil.
In the 1980s we had to pay off the incompetence of the Reagan administration (savings and loan debacle, etc).
In the 1990s the President had blowjobs in the oval office and the tech bubble burst.
In the 2000s the neocons showed what evil is all about. The whole economy collapsed as greed and unethical practices ruled.
Today? Well fuck, I am getting old and I need a hard tranny. :turnon::inlove:

We all know where the party lines are, but for the moment I would like to put politics aside. I think we can all agree that America is deeply divided now (of course, not as divided as it was during the Civil War), and don't count that among America's great attributes. There was a time when the two sides weren't so far apart right? So think back over the history of America what made America great? It doesn't sound like you think the 80s 90s or 00s display America's beauty, so let's scratch those off your list. In fact, let's all scratch off everything from the 70s on, since that's likely where we are going to be biased and divided again.

I would add to the list:
* America's natural resources
* The way America was created (at least most of how it was created)
* The fact that America was built through exploration and invention and at least until recently in our history has kept its drive for exploration and invention
* The Constitution and the wisdom of the founding fathers

This is one I'd like to add to the list:
* That anyone with enough drive can achieve their dreams

This has always been the American dream, so I would LIKE to put it on the list. The potential has been there for much of the population, but not always true for all of America's law-abiding citizens. Past the point of law-abiding citizens I draw a definite line.

p.s. and yes, hard tranny's are among America's Beauties!

Our foundations have been eroding at an alarming rate since the beginning of the 1900's; I'm just saying that people are starting to take notice now and yet most simply don't give a fuck. Most of the American public are complacent, content or apathetic and even though they see the shit going on, they are unwilling to do anything to change it. People are too dependent on other people today and rather than harnessing our inherent spirit of self reliance and independence, most would rather follow someone else and have another person do what needs to be done if it means making their lives simpler.

This will explain what I am talking about(sort of)

The Eight Steps Of A Democracy

From Bondage to Spiritual Faith

Do we forget how young of a nation we are? Europe had shaped and reshaped itself so many times before we were even put on a map.

England ruled the young America, not with whips and chains, but with taxes. The people weren't allowed to build a strong nation because all the money they made was sent back to England. In the beginning, they were cool with that.

They were running from Europe so they would have the right to serve the God of their choosing and the manner in which they would serve that God. To them, at least in the beginning, the sacrifice was worth it. But that didn't last long because Spiritual Faith is life altering.

From Spiritual Faith to Great Courage

Now, you have spiritual people who fully believe God has their best interest at heart and that translates into the building of courage.

Not in just this case, but in every case. Once you let God into your life, you begin to feel like you can move mountains. When you trust and have faith, fear seems to melt away.

From Courage to Liberty

This may seem funny but the courage you get from God makes you want to fight. O.K. maybe I didn't say that right. The courage you get from God makes it impossible for you to allow someone to block your blessings. There, that's better.

Our founding fathers knew we could not prosper with England at the head of our lives. We had to be a nation that put God first, then country, then family.

So NO! We will not bow to your Queen, we will not allow you to rob our country of it's chance to be great, and no we will not allow you to dictate the lives of our children and grandchildren. We have God on our side and will fight for what we feel is right.

And that's what we did. We fought and won our independence, our freedom, and our Liberty.

From Liberty to Abundance

And once you put your faith in God and walk through the fire without fear, you receive your blessing. And can't we all agree, America has been blessed. We sprouted from a young nation into a world leader in record time.

Industry flourished, businesses developed, and the Economy became the envy and standard of the world. We fought amongst ourselves, defended our friends and allies, and built the strongest military force on the planet. We adjust and change our laws, while still adhering to the basic principles of our Constitution.

But all this comes with a price.

From Abundance to Complacency

Complacency- self-satisfaction, especially when accompanied by unawareness of actual dangers and deficiencies

I think this came around the time of the Great Depression. The New Deal. The belief started to creep in that we had the money to do anything. People were hurting and wanted immediate help, so they turned to the government and the government answered.

We're temporarily going to give out Social Security benefits, just to get people by until things get better. We're going to set up Medicaid and Medicare to help the underprivileged and elderly, who just can't afford healthcare. These are just temporary steps to get us through these hard times.

When did they end Social Security? They didn't. No politician is going to advocate taking services from the poor and the old. Plus, now government has a huge money supply from all the taxes they collect for Social Security. Great way to get money from you to borrow against for other Government projects.

As the government continued to grow, so did it's hold on the mind of the American people.

From Complacency to Apathy

Apathy- lack of interest or concern; indifference

Now, we believe we can not fail. We pushed the Nazi's back and crushed Russia, what could go wrong? The age of drugs spread through America and people stopped caring. It was better to protest than to put yourself into a position to run for office. It was better to make love than resist the up and coming war in our own backyard, the ever growing size of government.

Then, one morning we awoke and realized Government played a role in every aspect of our life. We pay taxes from the moment we get up in the morning to the moment we go to sleep at night. They can tell your teenage daughter it's O.K. to get an abortion without telling a parent. They can even take away your land and cite "eminent domain".

And we threw our hands up and said "F it". It's nothing we can do, the government runs everything. And we stopped listening, we stopped paying attention, and we stopped holding politicians accountable for their actions. We allowed ourselves to be scared of the Government instead of making the Government scared of us.

This is were it gets really scary.

From Apathy to Dependence

This is were we are right now. We were so indifferent and complacent, the first person to come along and promise us the pot at the end of the rainbow, we jumped. This once God loving nation is starting to worship the Government instead.

The same God that gave our forefather's the strength and courage to fight is being contested at every turn. God teaches us to rely on him and then on ourselves and the Government doesn't like that. The now enormous Government, needs to keep feeding itself and it needs your complacency to do it.

They need you to not care they are taking over private industry. They need you to look away while the let the printing press run. They need you to worry about Nancy Pelosi, while the Federal Reserve consolidates power. And there's only one way that could happen, if you are dependent upon them.

If you can't keep your house without the Government, then you don't care how they do it. If you can't eat without the Government, you don't care where your food comes from. If you can't see a doctor without the Government, you don't care how much it will cost future generations.

We have become the nation of ME, Myself, and I and then anyone else that's poor. They got us right were they want us, completely dependent on the Government to make the economy work, to solve our individual financial woes, and to just give us that tingly feeling.

Guess what the last step is?

From Dependence to back into Bondage

This is what I don't understand about America today. There was a time in our history where people were given jobs, houses, food, and healthcare. It was called SLAVERY!

Master controlled everything about the lives of their slaves. They picked the winners and losers, the house nigga and the field nigga. They assualted those that would protest against their actions. They told their slaves when they could and couldn't procreate. They picked which part of the pig the slaves got to eat.

Now, the government is starting to enlist the same tactics. They pick which people can get their homes refinanced or modified. They pick which companies are to big to fail and which one's aren't worth saving. They release terror list for Americans, AMERICANS, that would question the direction of their country. And with Obama's full support of Planned Parenthood and his plans for national healthcare, population control won't be far behind.

And we're letting it happen. We are putting our heads in the sand and all our faith in a Man. A man that came from Chicago politics. A man that has an entire cabinet full of tax cheats and people who at one time or another have been under investigation. A man that down plays Christianity abroad and refuses to pray in front of a nation audience.

We've passed the 200 year mark but we're still progressing straight back to Bondage. The Government never gives up power. All the power the current Government is stacking will now be the norm, how can it get any bigger? It will and they will want more money to make it happen.

But before they come after more money, they will come for our guns. Mark my words. The American people are different from those in the past. We will always believe in our right to protect ourselves.

When the social spending fails and the Government is knocked down a peg, the people at the top will tell us it's in our best interest to let them handle it. The question will be, will we go back to God and develop the Great Courage to bring our country back from the brink or will hold out our arms and allow the government to attach the chains?


We are the sinking ship and yet while the lifeboats are waiting to be used, we would rather go down listening to the violin and its serenade of false security.

I agree with the above, but lest we forget, there were people there who were willing to fight for their causes. We have been so conditioned to having tha' Gubmint in our everyday lives and to believe that fighting back is wrong, that nobody is going to lift a damn finger when shit gets tough.

The most important thing; our spirit of independence and self-reliance is what is being threatened now. That is what made America so beautiful.

That's what I'm talking about. The "elected officials" and bureaucrats have a cynical view of the public being along the lines of "You are too much of an idiot to make basic decisions so we will make them for you." This is why things like Medicare/Universal Healthcare, Social Security, govt' takeover of the private sector is such a stupid idea. The spirit of competition and invention are squashed and replaced with the "lowest bidder" mentality.


Unfortunately, they are being outsourced to Brazil and Thailand. Do your part to help out! Ride American!(tranny's that is!)

America
 

Hey!
Great posts! I agree with most of whats been said. I would like to add a word which sums up my view of America.
Patriotism
I remember how my grandfather loved the flag and put it out on Memorial day and forth of July. It also felt good to salute the flag.
We used to have respect for the country and the president even when we didn't agree with everything he did.
Maybe we need a tranny for president, any suggestions?;)

Very good post. It would be one thing if these words were written today, but more amazing is that you are summing up what Tytler predicted over 200 years ago about democracy. American history has been the experiment confirming the prediction. What we have here now is a validated theory.

Knowing the pitfalls of democracy, it sounds like it may be time to restart a country like America was with controls built into the constitution against welfare, overspending, over taxing and big government.

As an atheist however, these steps all make sense without having to put so much importance on god. i.e: freedom, self reliance, small government works... that's why we should get back to that.

Yeah, I found the god stuff pretty irrevelant although I do understand where he was coming from.

So Tracy, as an intelligent person, how do you feel about the "tea party" rally in front of the capital? :frown:

The original Tea Party was to protest taxation without representation. There is so much political activity from the right and even from independents and some democrat voters (who didn't really know or care what "Hope and Change" meant) because like King George, this government is completely out of touch with American citizens.

There was the $1 trillion stimulus that wasn't even written, much less even read by our representatives. It was written by the Apollo Alliance.

Did you vote for the Apollo Alliance last November? I sure didn't, and I don't know of anyone who has. There will be an unprecedented tax from this bill. That would be a clear case of taxation without representation.

Also, there's the healthcare crap they want to pass. Congress was all set to pass this bill last summer. A bill that would be irreversible, that would fundamentally change many aspects of our lives, and most of them hadn't even read it! Thankfully many people in town hall meetings started demanding answers to their questions and got the politicians to start listening. That's what representatives should do is listen. Not come to us and tell us what we need. The fact is, the vast majority of Americans don't want nationalized health care, so Obama and the assholes in congress should do their job and drop it.

I'm hoping we can keep them from passing the bill until 2010 when the American citizens enact a health care program on congress and clean it out with an enema.

So, the main message of the Tea Party is that the government is out of control, and to remind them that America has government for the people, by the people. And I completely support their cause.

Appolo Alliance
 

Our Mission

"The Apollo Alliance is a coalition of labor, business, environmental, and community leaders working to catalyze a clean energy revolution that will put millions of Americans to work in a new generation of high-quality, green-collar jobs. Inspired by the Apollo space program, we promote investments in energy efficiency, clean power, mass transit, next-generation vehicles, and emerging technology, as well as in education and training. Working together, we will reduce carbon emissions and oil imports, spur domestic job growth, and position America to thrive in the 21st century economy."
What's wrong with that?

The stimulus package was approved by Congress regardless of who "wrote" it. Therefore "we" approved it.
Your comments on the "Tea Party" are reasonable. We are all concerned with the massive spending.
What appalls me are the idiotic signs waved around by the mob. Signs calling Obama Hitler and Pelosi a Nazi are absurd. Further absurdity is calling him a socialist! Obama's stimulus package is designed to save capitalism, pure and simple. Capitalists are in full control of the stimulus funds. It seems to be working and the government is starting to get some of it back. :yes:

Is the Apollo Alliance trying to say that the Apollo space program "promoted investments in energy efficiency, clean power, mass transit, next-generation vehicles, and emerging technology, as well as in education and training." That's really amazing that a space program that was intended to put a man on the moon instead did all these other things.

Well, as usual, when you look into these groups and people surrounding Obama, you come up with criminals (like what ACORN is riddled with), communists and progressives.

Jeff Jones - Co-creator of the Weather Underground with Bill Ayers. He was arrested in 1981 for his terrorist acts. Where do you go from there? Adviser to environmental groups, to labor organizations and to the New York state government where he sits on a commission for Governor Paterson of course.

He was also adviser to the Workforce Development Institute in New York, which is advising state and local governments and universities on how to write their grants to get stimulus funds from the stimulus bill that he and his friends at Apollo wrote. What does he do now? He's the head of the Apollo Alliance in NY, and he's also an adviser for the national Apollo Alliance as well.

There are several others, but it's a long boring list of commies and progressivists.

Well that's assuming the people we put in office do their jobs and read it. But they didn't. They weren't given time to, and many of them readily admitted they weren't going to read it because it was too long and they trusted Pelosi and BO to get it right.

Yeah, and stuff like this too:
He surrounds himself with not only socialists, but communists. He's had communist mentors when growing up. He lived in communist Indonesia. He forms a relationship with the radical-communist Bill Ayers. Many of his advisors are communists. He has or plans to put car companies, banks and even the health care system under government control. He's working out ways to take over the airwaves with something called "Localism", and there's a bill in the senate that would give BO the power to shut down the internet if he ever feels the itch to do so. Are you saying it's absurd to call him socialist because he's actually a communist?

Capitalists like Jeff Jones and ACORN? LOL :lol: You made a funny. I noted a while back that the economy seemed to be recovering before the stimulus money had begun being spent - making the $trillion an unnecessary burden on tax payers while funding a bunch of radical left-wing types like ACORN.

"Capitalists like Jeff Jones and ACORN? LOL You made a funny. I noted a while back that the economy seemed to be recovering before the stimulus money had begun being spent - making the $trillion an unnecessary burden on tax payers while funding a bunch of radical left-wing types like ACORN."

OK, Acorn may be a piece of shit, but its not where the big money is going. It is going to bail the big financial institutions that run this capitalist country. That is not socialism by any stretch of the imagination. Also a lot of the money is in the form of an investment which hopefully will become a good capitalist investment. The highly discounted mortgage bonds are likely to recover value in the future.
You seem to be determined to label Obama a communist or at least a socialist based on some tenuous associations in the past. Many young people go through a "radical" period. What counts is what he is doing now and there is no question in my mind he is supporting capitalism and would like to see a humane health care system available to all citizens.:yes:

The definition of capitalism:

Main Entry: cap·i·tal·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈka-pə-tə-ˌliz-əm, ˈkap-tə-, British also kə-ˈpi-tə-\
Function: noun
Date: 1877
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market.


I fail to see how giving the gov't control over a private enterprise is in any way capitalistic. It is more like this:

Main Entry: so·cial·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1837
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Pay close attention to the first part of the definition...

“It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication and a government bureaucracy to administer it.”-Thomas Sowell

From the LA Examiner, Brian Ashamakus

Is anyone else tired of the "Obama is a socialist" rhetoric coming from the far right. I sure am and I would like to take this opportunity to define socialism and then to demonstrate why Obama is not a subscriber to this economic theory.

Socialism does not describe a single economic system, however there are certain principles that are common to all forms of socialism. 1. The abolition of private property and the implementation of some form of collective ownership. In other words, the people, or their representatives (a government, party, union, guild, etc.) control land, property, and capital as a group instead of it being controlled privately by individuals and companies as in capitalism. 2. The elimination of social and economic classes. Under socialism there is no rich and poor and equality in wealth and power. 3. Production according to ability and distribution according to need. Thus in a socialist society, all produce goods and provide services according to their talents and skills and receive whatever goods and services they need from other producers. Historically, this distribution method has been accomplished through a government bureaucracy, but state control is not a necessary quality of socialism. In other words socialists seek to eliminate the capitalist (supply and demand) form of distribution.

In order to defend my thesis that Obama is not a socialist, I will look at three of his policies as president that have most often resulted in the misuse of that label--the bailout of the auto companies, the economic stimulus, and his current health care proposal. First, the auto bailout. A socialist, as mentioned above, opposes private ownership and would want automobile manufacture to be controlled collectively and for automobiles to be distributed according to need. The auto bailout's goal, however, was to help the private companies, known as the Big 3, to survive as private institutions that sell their cars according to what customers will pay for them. Thus, its goal was to preserve an aspect of capitalism (the American share of the automobile market), not establish socialism.

The economic stimulus, officially called the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, had a similar intent. The recovery's website lists several goals of the act. Some of them include reviving the renewable energy industry, investing in infrastructure, and granting tax credits to working families. These are not the goals of a socialist. Remember that a socialist seeks to eliminate private property and companies, not revive them. A socialist would also do the infrastructure investment differently. Under socialism, the government would enlist employees directly to rebuild infrastructure, not hire private contractors who will in turn hire employees as is the case in this act. Finally, the tax credits are meant to encourage spending by individuals to reinvigorate the economy. The basic premise is that the recipients of these tax credits will use the money to make purchases. This will help companies, who will use their extra earnings to hire more employees, who will be able to spend themselves, thus restarting the economy and saving capitalism. This is known as Keynesian economics, not socialism. The cash for clunkers program also works this way, encouraging spending by subsidizing the purchase with government spending. No socialist would ever try to save capitalism, which they see as the creator of the class system that they despise.

President Obama's health care plan is possibly the policy that most often results in Obama being accused of being a socialist. However, it is also the policy that best demonstrates that he is not. Obama's health care plan has many stipulations, but the primary one is the creation of a public option for health care through which insurance is purchased as a group for a lower premium. This would, however, only be an option. Persons would not be required to drop their existing insurance, nor would private insurance companies be eliminated. The plan also includes several reforms that are meant to reduce health care costs, including subsidies for employers, record-keeping improvements, and regulations of prescription drug companies. These reforms are made without nationalizing any private entities. It even seeks to help small business, by assisting them in paying for their employee health benefits. It doesn't even distribute health care according to need, as persons are still required to pay for the public option. It is therefore quite clear that this bill is not a "socialist" bill, nor is President Obama a socialist.

President Obama is a capitalist. His policies are directed at rescuing companies, revitalizing the capitalist economy, helping small businesses, and creating competition, all things actual socialists would cringe at. So please stop saying that Obama is a socialist, please stop posting it on your blogs, or yelling it at town meetings, or wearing T-shirts of it, or writing it on picket signs. Concentrate instead on legitimate criticisms of his policies and your opposition will be much more effective and better received. :yes:

Interesting comparison of Glenn Becks logo. :eek:;):lol:

What does Glenn Beck have to do with any of this? :confused:

From Washington Monthly.

QUOTE OF THE DAY.... "The good news is, nearly four-dozen advertisers have now pulled their sponsorship of Glenn Beck's deranged Fox News program. The bad news is, Beck's ratings have gone up, in part because he's acting like an even bigger lunatic than usual, and clowns doing funny dances tend to draw a crowd.

Yesterday was especially astounding. He argued on the air, for example, that President Obama intends to create a "civilian national security force," which will be similar to Hitler's SS and Saddam Hussein. Apparently, this has something to do with AmeriCorps, which Beck initially said has a $500 billion budget. (He corrected himself later in the show, though his guest didn't blink when he originally made the claim.)

Towards the end of the show, after scrawling on a variety of boards and pieces of paper, Beck summarized his key observation. On a chalkboard, Beck had written the words, "Obama," "Left Internationalist," "Graft," "ACORN Style Organizations," "Revolution," and "Hidden Agenda." If you circle some of the first letters of these important words, Beck says, it spells "OLIGARH." Beck told his viewers there's only one letter missing. If you're thinking that letter is "c," you're not medicated enough to understand Beck's show.

The missing letter is "y," because the word he hoped to spell is "OLIGARHY." No, that word doesn't exist in the English language, but that's probably because the dictionary was written by some communist community organizer who wants to keep Glenn Beck and his viewers down. "

He is a total nut case that the far right loves. Naturally he is on Fox news.

Okaaaay.... I still fail to see why you brought up Glenn Beck and his obvious inability to spell the word "oligarchy".

Lets see what John Stossel has to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9GMKK_fWKg&

Listening to a liar
 

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...I1OTdmNTc5YTM=


Listening to a Liar
Ignore the lofty rhetoric: Obamacare is about the government accumulating power.

By Thomas Sowell

The most important thing about what anyone says is not the words themselves but the credibility of the person saying them.

The words of convicted swindler Bernie Madoff were apparently quite convincing to many people who were regarded as knowledgeable and sophisticated. If you go by words, you can be led into anything.

No doubt millions of people will be listening to the words of Pres. Barack Obama Wednesday night when he makes a televised address to a joint session of Congress on his medical-care plans. But, if they think that the words he says are what matters, they can be led into something much worse than being swindled out of their money.

One plain fact should outweigh all the words of Barack Obama and all the impressive trappings of the setting in which he says them: He tried to rush Congress into passing a massive government takeover of the nation's health care before the August recess - for a program that would not take effect until 2013.

Whatever President Obama is, he is not stupid. If the urgency to pass the legislation were to deal with a problem immediately, then why postpone for years the date when the legislation would go into effect - specifically, until the year after the next presidential election?

If this is such an desperately needed program, why wait for years to put it into effect? And if the public is going to benefit from this, why not let them experience those benefits before the next presidential election?

If it is not urgent that the legislation go into effect immediately, then why don't we have time to go through the normal process of holding Congressional hearings on the pros and cons, accompanied by public discussions of its innumerable provisions? What sense does it make to "hurry up and wait" on something that is literally a matter of life and death?

If we do not believe that the president is stupid, then what do we believe? The only reasonable alternative seems to be that he wanted to get this massive government takeover of medical care passed into law before the public understood what was in it.

Moreover, he wanted to get re-elected in 2012 before the public experienced what its actual consequences would be.

Unfortunately, this way of doing things is all too typical of the way this administration has acted on a wide range of issues.

Consider the "stimulus" legislation. Here the administration was successful in rushing a massive spending bill through Congress in just two days - after which it sat on the president's desk for three days while he was away on vacation. But, like the medical care legislation, the "stimulus" legislation takes effect slowly.

The Congressional Budget Office estimates that it will be September 2010 before even three-quarters of the money will be spent. Some economists expect that it will not all be spent by the end of 2010.

What was the rush to pass it, then? It was not to get that money out into the economy as fast as possible. It was to get that money - and the power that goes with it - into the hands of the government. Power is what politics is all about.

The worst thing that could happen - from the standpoint of those seeking more government power over the economy - would be for the economy to begin recovering on its own while months were being spent debating the need for a "stimulus" bill. As the president's chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, said, you can't let a crisis "go to waste" when "it's an opportunity to do things you could not do before."

There are lots of people in the Obama administration who want to do things that have not been done before - and to do them before the public realizes what is happening.

The proliferation of White House "czars" in charge of everything from financial issues to media issues is more of the same circumvention of the public and of the Constitution. Czars don't have to be confirmed by the Senate, the way cabinet members must be, even though czars may wield more power, so you may never know what these people are like, until it is too late.

What Barack Obama says Wednesday night is not nearly as important as what he has been doing - and how he has been doing it.

Glenn Beck and other far right wing pundits are trying to cast Obama as a socialist or even worse a communist. They are inflaming their followers into mindless protests that could escalate into violence. Everybody is insecure in this economic environment. To play on fears and worries is demagoguery.
There is plenty of room to discuss and debate Obama's proposals in a civilized manner.

Sometimes the truth hurts. It seems that only when left wingers protest, it is "patriotic dissent". Anything else is considered "militant extremism". :lol::lol::lol:

How is that any different than global warming, "gun control" and numerous other crap that liberals spew?

The government should not be in the business of helping out businesses.

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx
No, a purely capitalist system would allow a failing company or financial institution to fail. That's what bankruptcy is for. A socialist system would make them part of the government.

By accepting bailout money, the "Man" can assume de facto control by saying"We wanna make sure that this money is spent right, so we'll determine how things are spent and/or run."

The quote,"death by a thousand cuts" is relevant here. Once again, a push by the gov't to gain control of private sector enterprises. Just because they don't try to take control by more forceful means does not mean that they are not trying to take over. Rather than trying to control everything in a Soviet-esque manner, they know that they can achieve the same goals in a more subtle manner. People don't respond kindly to outright attacks, so they've changed tactics and found that you can get people to vote for this shit in times of uncertainty under the guise of "financial stability/security","hope and change" or what ever catchphrase they are using.


There is a world outside of Berkeley you know.

I am, yet it seems that if I don't believe in a particular political solution or I'm not fellating Obama like everyone else, I am automatically labeled as a back-asswards, racist/misogynist/bigoted redneck who has a heart of stone and clings bitterly to guns and religion.

Acorn
 

I don't know if the democrats here have been following Obama's favorite community organizer group, ACORN lately, since left-wing news isn't covering it, but it's been hilarious.

Last friday, video was released showing a couple of reporters claiming to be a pimp and his ho. They went to ACORN asking how to set up a prostitution ring involving more than a dozen underage girls from El Salvador. The lady there gave them advice, gained from her community organizing experience, on how to set up a prostitution ring and evade the IRS.

ACORN fired the woman and said this was an isolated incident. BTW, that is the extent of the story if you search CNN's archives.

Then the next day the reporters released another video from another state showing the same thing. ACORN fired that person too and threatened legal action against these two reporters. For what? Do they really think they can defend this? The census bureau broke of ties with ACORN.

Monday another video came out, showing the same thing in yet another state. The senate voted 83-7 to revoke federal funds from ACORN. Which is HUGE since ACORN was scheduled to receive over $8 billion in federal funds (Why they were going to receive these funds after being charged in 14 states with voter fraud is beyond me, but I digress...).

The videos continue... today, video from yet another state shows an ACORN worker who says she ran a prostitution ring herself... oh and by the way... she also admitted to KILLING her husband too. OMG.

The head of ACORN issued a statement praising all the good things ACORN has done, like getting the Community Reinvestment Act passed LOL. Yeah, thanks for that. Thanks for getting the CRA passed so the government is required by law to give loans to unqualified applicants which led to the collapse of Freddie Mac & Fannie May and the financial meltdown last fall.

Heads on pikes!!!

sorry to be off subject
 

theres two things i know for sure about america as a veteran. One, its run by lobbysts. not the house or senate or president or the people. LOBBYSTS!!!! do you really want the people with the money decided what meds to give you when your sick. Not this guy. I want the best meds for the right reasons not the wrong political unfunded/overfunded reasons. until we kick lobbysts out of washington, or atleast stop letting them make campiagn controbutions, favors will be owed to rich componies and poor americans will just be sol.
the second thing i know is no matter what side you are the other is always wrong. its been this way since the begginging. so why did, for the second time since the 1860s become divided into sides. the north vs the south. the reps and the dems. FUCK THAT. im american, not liberal, not conservative not republican not demecrate. american. and my american values come before any party affiliation.
until these two problems are solved, america will continue in its downward spiral. no matter who's in office. blame it on reagan, bush, clinton, bush or obama. wich i feel sorry for the last guy, cause we pin all our hopes from the last three decades of fucking over america on this poor inexperienced over talkative young man.
well thats my piece. i had to get it in there. sorry for the intrusion on obama talk.

No problem, welcome to the thread. And nice cock BTW

As an American, do you have an opinion on whether our government should be large and well funded, or small and lean?

Racists?
 

There have been several accusations that we conservatives are racists.

That's right... In the face of growing opposition, scandals and commie-czars Obama and his lackeys are running out of explanations and excuses. So they are using their last resort: The race card.

Forget that this country has been staunchly against Communism & Socialism for over 60 years and BO is now surrounding himself with them. Forget BO's ties with domestic terrorists who have declared war on America. Forget the fact that he's trying to ram nationalized healthcare down our throats when 85% of the people say NO. Forget that he's funding organizations like ACORN that are crookeder than a barrel of snakes. Forget that he's turning our nations heroes into criminals in the war on Terror. Forget that he's outspent the past several presidents in 2 months....

All that is just conservatives trying to hide our racist hate of Obama. That's right, you got us. We actually agree with all those policies and it's just that black president we can't stand. Well half black. Yeah, it's just half of him that we can't stand. :rolleyes:

Well here we go agian, Preeching doom and gloom and only the GOP loves and cares about the USA and our only hope to surive is to have the GOP in total control.
After all look at the great job they did from 01 to 06, Is that the what you are claiming we need back in power? If so no thanks, That bunch made GOP stand for Give Out Poverty
:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

Laughable! She's not preaching doom and gloom Jen. Just click on the link.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...nst_obama.html

What's up with this? Obama canceled the missile defense shield that the US promised Poland? So now US commitments mean nothing? And it's one thing to go back on this... It's quite another to make the announcement on the 70th anniversary of the Russian invasion of Poland! Take that Poland!

For all you Obama haters, check out the second video on real clear politics.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...xtremists.html

Yes cause as we know, Poland is the real enemy. Poland and the Czech Republic are the only countries that have the balls to tell the EU and Russia to GFY and we just hung em out to dry.

I guess that means I'm "racist" because I don't like Zeros policies. Extremism my ass. It's seems like it's only extremism when conservatives disagree. :frown::frown::frown:

From Foreignpolicy,com

The Obama administration's decision announced today to cancel the deeply flawed antimissile systems in Eastern Europe is sound policy based on the best intelligence and technical assessments. U.S. President Barack Obama replaces a system that did not work against a threat that did not exist with weapons that can defend against the real Iranian missile capability. Better still, he NATO-izes the system to strengthen the alliance, not divide it.

So-- not everybody thinks Obama is stupid. Pragmatism rules! :yes: