Oh my god--Jimnaeium--is that how liberals think !!!!! You have everything all mixed up. And then you think Obama is going to save the world ?? And you think we are going to sit around til 2016 while your guy and his gang destroy my country?? Didn't you see what happened in New Jersey or Virginia or upper New York state and then BROWN whopping Coakley and the dem/liberal/Kennedy bunch. Your team saw it and they are panicing. Your team is dropping by the wayside and you are still cheering them on. I suggest you start listening to TracyCoxx--she's got it going on. Now I suggest also that you resign yourself to the fact the Obama is going to join Jimmy Carter with one term and lucky we don't run him out of town.

"Obama WILL become FDR!" You are right about that if we let him. Couple of the worst presidents ever were Woodrow Wilson and FDR--unthinking liberals to a tee. Want to see what a Liberal Run country would be like--look at some big cities that are always dem liberal run--Detroit--New Orleans--Chicago.

Get your rest now---2 hours and your Messiah speaks---I'll get my barf bag.

Have a good night.

We should listen to whoever agrees with you?
 

CCC:

Messiah was invented by Rush Limbaugh to create an expectation of a miraculous fixing of all problems in no time, like fixing the economy by 12/1/08.

Anything short of that is a disastrous failure, and Conse 'Pubs deserve 8 years to fix what Obama broke? Aren't Conse 'Pubs the best?

TAL

Oh yes, republicans screwed up everything and it's all under control now. BO has Corporate America under control now huh... BO's own secretary of treasury, Tim Geithner, allowed Steven Friedman to oversee Goldman Sachs. Who's Friedman? Former chairman of Goldman Sachs and was on the board of directors. Geithner OK'd this conflict of interest. Geithner also allows Friedman to keep his 52000 shares of Goldman Sachs stock while he oversees Goldman Sachs. Oh, and btw, Goldman Sachs stock rose from $78/share to $167 per share over the last year.

There's a new lobbyist for Goldman Sachs. Michael Pease. He's joining the director of government affairs. They hired him because their previous lobbyist, Mark Patterson, has been named the chief of staff for Timothy Geithner. Michael Pease is now in Barney Frank's office.

Gee I'm so glad Obama is keeping banks and corporate america under control now.

Apparently liberals have this expectation...

It seems just the other day all you guys were screaming Obama was a, gasp, SOCIALIST!
Told Ya!

Waiting for TMF to speak. Give'em hell Joe!

Do it Obama!

Nice Link
 

TRACY:

You've used this link before to prove you--no doubt--are right, as usual.

The quote appears to be cherry-picked, taken out of context, and/or it was a sarcastic comment.

I cannot tell without the whole text. It's kind of like Sotomayor being a blatant racist after Conse 'Pub pols cherry-picked statements over 20 years to pick one that could be misrepresented. Out of context and misrepresented?

Sorry, Conse 'Pubs have really poisoned things for me.

TAL

This is your guy?
 

TRACY:

Joe Wilson defines what it is to be a Conse 'Pub, like you.

TAL

I'm not trying to hide the context. Just putting in the relevant part of the quote. To see where the quote came from, the whole quote, just click on the check box after the name in the quote. Or click here

http://forum.transladyboy.com/showth...440#post128440

Before, I merely despised him. Seeing as how BO has now targeted my job and lifelong goal I am in a particularly foul mood when it comes to him today.

TRACY:

It was an over-the-top back-and-forth with The Angry Postman, and was out of context in the course of the conversation. You didn't take the post out of context, but it was out of the context of the back-and-forth conversation.

See why I feel poisoned?

TAL

TRACY


So, you ONLY despised him from when? 9/08?

Do you know how many people lost their jobs in 2008?

Cheney told Bush that they had to do something to avoid being Hooverized.

You blame Obama, and Limbaugh blamed him for the economy in 9/08.

Your opinion appears to be colored (influenced) by your ideology, while I prefer facts. Bush had 116 questionable actions in 8 years, which is more than 1 a month. I'm different: If Obama pulled the same stunts, I'd bust on him but good. I'm a Mod Dem, but I don't buy blind allegiance to anybody. The man shows me he'll do his best, and that's all a realistic person can ask for.




TAL

Not really...

He's trying his best to go against the will of the country.

Will of the people?
 

TRACY:

The will of the people is blurred. It is distorted by claims, like Fox, where I've heard that the majority of the people feel like Conse 'Pubs. The rub is that they've felt that way for most of Obama's term, like they gave him a month. That's what Beck did: He started his 9-12 project (tea parties) after 1 month, and they marched on DC for tax day. That will is distorted by carefully worded polls, and slanted audiences. Distortion example from Hannity: Bush won '04 in a landslide, but almost 50 million people voted against Obama. The latter sounds like he lost the election.

TAL

Yeah... what happened after a month into BO's term? He spent 2.5 times as much as Bush did during his entire 8 years! And that includes Bush's $700 billion Wall Street bailout! And it wasn't Glenn Beck that started the Tea Parties. This is what started it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEDlod2V80U

TRACY:

So, what would you have done? Nothing or more tax cuts? Why didn't Bush do nothing or more tax cuts? I put tea parties in parenthesis, because of the tax-day protest and not the founding of. Sorry, I wasn't totally clear on that which was a Ron Paul Libertarian design.

TAL

Fuzzy Math and Teabagger IQs aren't going to sink the Democrats, it's going to sink the Republicans. The baggers are already bickering with Sarah Palin because she's supporting McCain over some wacko DJ in Arizona. Every time any serious Republican candidate is pressed on the birthers, or death panels, or evolution, or Rush Limbo, you can see them disappear before your eyes. The Democrats don't need ACORN, but the Republicans need Glenn Beck. Good luck with that.
BTW, wasn't Obama magnificent last night?

I think Ron Paul had it right. We should never have done the Wall Street bailout in the first place because we can't afford it. If you're deep in debt, anyone with a brain knows you don't put yourself further in debt. That's obvious and I can't believe it has to be explained.

And you don't do nothing. The budget MUST BE BALANCED! This is another thing that is so obvious it shouldn't need explaining. There's tons of pork that we're paying for, and everybody knows it. Cut that crap out.

We need to transform the country so that we produce actual goods, not just services. When we export goods, we lower our deficit. And the way to do that is NOT by increasing taxes on corporations. They will scale their production down, go bankrupt or leave the country.

Yes, it will be painful for a few years. Pain is the only way to lower the deficit, but when we do, we will be much stronger as a nation. What BO is doing is propping up every bad idea that has failed so that it stays with us and continues to screw us.

And btw, even doing nothing would be better than what BO has done. The economy started to recover before the stimulus package had a chance to go into effect.

TRACY:

So, you don't believe Cheney when he said they had to do the bailout to avoid a Great Depression?


TAL

No. We weren't heading for a great depression. Tough times, yes, but not a great depression. Free market is a system of profit and loss. When the government tries to hide the loss, it fucks with the system and turns it into something else.

Oh, and another thing. We have to get back on the gold standard.

TRACY:

Are you aware of the electronic run on the banks in mid-September '08?

TAL

Yes, very aware.

Let's get down to facts, shall we?
The GOP is going to vote on a "Purity Resolution" today, proposing that all Republican Candidates must adhere to at least 8 out of 10 Conservative Values (taxes, illegal immigrants, guns, gays, etc) or be denied GOP funding. It is an attempt to bring the TRUE BELIEVERS and the REPUBLICAN PARTY together.
Now,.....my money says the party of NO is going to say no to this.
Looks like business as usual over at the GOP.

TRACY:

So, Bush was wrong to do the bailout?

That means if Obama does nothing or what you wanted, you'd be happy?

If things failed doing things your way, you would not criticize Obama?


TAL

You should be complaining about them copying the Dems..... agree to my stuff or I cut you off. At least GOP gives you free speech.

CCC:

No, it gives YOU freedom of speech.

Cheney said it is unpatriotic to question Pres. Bush during wartime! In other words, say nothing!!!

However, when Cheney criticizes Obama, it's his right to question him.

Yeah, the freedom of speech to buy elections courtesy of The SC.


TAL

Sure, you can have all the free speeches you want. But you better check yourself before you wreck yourself. The Republican Party is embarassed by you. You're a TOOL to them. They LAUGH at you behind closed doors. But they sure appreciate your vote. There's no MONEY in teabagger beliefs. That's why the Republicans will never fund it. It's too much like giving money to hard working Americans.

Conservatives?
 

Some quotes from George Carlin.

"Conservatives say if you don't give the rich more money, they will lose their incentive to invest. As for the poor, they tell us they've lost all incentive because we've given them too much money." :lol:

"Have you ever wondered why Republicans are so interested in encouraging people to volunteer in their communities? It?s because volunteers work for no pay. Republicans have been trying to get people to work for no pay for a long time." :lol:

"Once you leave the womb, conservatives don't care about you until you reach military age. Then you?re just what they?re looking for. Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers." :eek:

RANDY:

Conse 'Pubs are for the military and honor, except when it comes to giving them more than the minimum increase in pay and benefits. Why? We cannot afford it!

TAL

And that is why Carlin is a great comedian and a friend of the family ha ha

Jimmy got that right.

"After President Obama spoke, the Republicans gave their rebuttal, during which they pointed out that Obama has repeatedly failed to solve any of the problems they created under President Bush." -Jimmy Kimmel

“Liberals seem to assume that, if you don't believe in their particular political solutions, then you don't really care about the people that they claim to want to help”-Thomas Sowell

"One of the most pervasive political visions of our time is the vision of liberals as compassionate and conservatives as less caring."-Thomas Sowell

"People who identify themselves as conservatives donate money to charity more often than people who identify themselves as liberals. They donate more money and a higher percentage of their incomes."-Thomas Sowell

"Thomas Sowell has his head up his ass"-Thomas Jefferson
sorry, George Jefferson

Obviously you cannot provide a valid and coherent arguement against Thomas Sowell's reasoning and must therefore resort to ad hominem attacks.


My Sowell beats your Kimmel.

Sorry, "Sowell has his head up his ass" -Jim Nauseum.

Bill Gates gives 2 billion to charity. Where do you think he got that money? Do you think he worked 200 hours a day? That 2 billion came from average citizens that shelled out hard earned money for windows. And once he got that money he multiplied it on the stock market. Whether you know it or not, all that money made on Wall st. was created by people who work 40 hour weeks for peanuts. Rent and food and a car.

1% of the people own 50% of the money. If you voted for that 1% to be in control, You;re their Bitch!!!! Not me.......

Bill Gates is an opportunist who marketed a product towards other people. Had there not been a demand for his product, he wouldn't be as successful as he is now. If you don't like someone's product, don't buy it.

Buying into rampant consumerism and bitching about it afterwards shows a lack of personal restraint and an innate hatred of anyone who may be more successful than you. Lest I remind you, you are probably typing your messages on either a Windows or Apple computer so you did indeed give away your money to either Bill Gates or Steve Jobs and that does in fact make you their Bitch. You did what is known as "voting with your dollar".

Yep, half of the people in this country "love" their "daddy" as he screws them day and night. :coupling: Wall street rules!:censored:

Drew explains why people vote against their interests.



In his book The Political Brain, psychologist Drew Westen, an exasperated Democrat, tried to show why the Right often wins the argument even when the Left is confident that it has the facts on its side.
He uses the following exchange from the first presidential debate between Al Gore and George Bush in 2000 to illustrate the perils of trying to explain to voters what will make them better off:
Gore: "Under the governor's plan, if you kept the same fee for service that you have now under Medicare, your premiums would go up by between 18% and 47%, and that is the study of the Congressional plan that he's modelled his proposal on by the Medicare actuaries."
Bush: "Look, this is a man who has great numbers. He talks about numbers.


"I'm beginning to think not only did he invent the internet, but he invented the calculator. It's fuzzy math. It's trying to scare people in the voting booth."
Mr Gore was talking sense and Mr Bush nonsense - but Mr Bush won the debate. With statistics, the voters just hear a patronising policy wonk, and switch off.
For Mr Westen, stories always trump statistics, which means the politician with the best stories is going to win: "One of the fallacies that politicians often have on the Left is that things are obvious, when they are not obvious.
"Obama's administration made a tremendous mistake by not immediately branding the economic collapse that we had just had as the Republicans' Depression, caused by the Bush administration's ideology of unregulated greed. The result is that now people blame him."
Reverse revolution
Thomas Frank, the author of the best-selling book What's The Matter with Kansas, is an even more exasperated Democrat and he goes further than Mr Westen.
He believes that the voters' preference for emotional engagement over reasonable argument has allowed the Republican Party to blind them to their own real interests.
The Republicans have learnt how to stoke up resentment against the patronising liberal elite, all those do-gooders who assume they know what poor people ought to be thinking.
Right-wing politics has become a vehicle for channelling this popular anger against intellectual snobs. The result is that many of America's poorest citizens have a deep emotional attachment to a party that serves the interests of its richest.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...dyedelberg.jpg Thomas Frank thinks that voters have become blinded to their real interests

Thomas Frank says that whatever disadvantaged Americans think they are voting for, they get something quite different:
"You vote to strike a blow against elitism and you receive a social order in which wealth is more concentrated than ever before in our life times, workers have been stripped of power, and CEOs are rewarded in a manner that is beyond imagining.
"It's like a French Revolution in reverse in which the workers come pouring down the street screaming more power to the aristocracy."
As Mr Frank sees it, authenticity has replaced economics as the driving force of modern politics. The authentic politicians are the ones who sound like they are speaking from the gut, not the cerebral cortex. Of course, they might be faking it, but it is no joke to say that in contemporary politics, if you can fake sincerity, you have got it made.
Yep, Rush, Glenn and Fox News have fucked the voters. :frown:

[QUOTE=TheAngryPostman;130499] don't buy it
QUOTE]

I seem to remember Microsoft facing an Antitrust Rap in 1998, this is your Sowell hero. Your point was that corporations were charitable, my point is they have more money to be charitable. And then of course there is tax shelters.
This all comes down to UNION vs MANAGEMENT. If the people bond together, and refuse to eat shit, that's business, right? It's also called voting with your dollar.

The Health Industry is rampant profiteering leeched onto a noble cause. Parasites. Should Schools be an individual responsibility?
Any person who is Noble, Republican or Democrat, he's going to be OK, everyone he deals with will be OK. The better debater will win our debate. This has nothing to do with Cheney having all the Oil Execs in his office for a top secret meeting a week before gas prices soar!!! Take it or leave it? YOU take it!!!

And there you are.

[QUOTE=jimnaseum;130535]Read again Jimbo. I said that people who know what work actually is tend to be more charitable versus those that complain and bitch and ask for handouts all the time.

The Microsoft Antitrust case was because Microsoft packaged IE with the OS. You are obviously talking about things way outside your pay grade.

Unions set the wages for the workers and decrease any incentive for quality because they are going to get paid anyways. Why do you think GM and Chrysler went under? Low productivity, low quality and exorbitant expenses that were incurred by the unions as "benefits" for their workers led to their bankruptcy and ultimately put the workers out of a job; the very same workers that they were "supposed" to protect. Unions are by nature, communist. No matter how productive you are, you do not get paid your worth; they determine it for you. They determine your wages, your benefits and even how productive you are supposed to be. Unions were fine if you were a coal miner in 1880 or a steel worker in 1906 but nowadays, they are just counter productive.

Schooling is also something that should not be public. Look at the standards nowadays. A Bachelors Degree today is equal to a High School Diploma from the 1950's. Standards today are incredibly dumbed down because of idiots crying that their stupid kids are smoking pot and being lazy rather than getting an education. Today's average man is already a retard by 1900's standards.

Is it the schools fault that Little Johnny is a dipshit and has no discipline in his life? No. If it was the teachers fault and it was indeed the teacher who was not doing their job, then usually the teacher would be fired. But since they are employed by the Teachers Unions, anything other than molesting students, the teachers will continue to collect a paycheck and do very little.

And Jimbo, ad hominem has no place in a rational debate. Please do further to strengthen your arguements.


And yes, people banding together and boycotting certain legitimate wrongdoings in a business is indeed a form of "voting with your dollar". Why continue to buy something if it violates what you stand for?

I can't speak for the others, but I was more amusing myself at your expense than debating.

EVERY ONE of you points has one fatal flaw. George W Bush. He cost you all your credibility. I'm with Obama all day. I smelled Bush coming all the way. I've run into his kind a thousand times. That crap you're spouting DOESN'T WORK.*

*2000-2008

See, I gave you a footnote to prove my arguement.{sic}

What does Bush have to do with anything I've said? I've stated multiple times on this forum that I am a conservative Libertarian. Thus any attempt of yours to make some kind of ideological connection is invalid.

Of course I would criticize him.... on his foreign policy.

Reference?


And I laugh at their religious beliefs, but I appreciate them not turning this country into a socialist country. So they have my vote.

No money? Tell that to Senator Brown.

Don't you know the liberal mantra? BUSH DID IT!

Bush did it
 

Of course, THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE! :lol:

OK, Joe the Plumber, whatever, so who is your Leader? I have Barack Obama. Who do you have? Does your soapbox have wheels? Without a representative, you're just some guy mumbling to himself. Did you vote for McCain?

Look and ye shall find...

ANGRY:

Palin!

TAL

Nope. Guess again Tal.

Although I would not hesitate to analize both her and her daughter...:turnon:






HINT: It is a couple pages back in this very thread!

So will lobotomizing yourself apparently :lol:

Looks like TARP is failing. What a waste of money.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...-created-risk/
Anymore questions TAL?

I said it a year ago... Obama had better learn the lessons of why the financial crisis happened in '08 and prevent them from happening again. And I'm talking about the REAL reasons Randy & Jim. Not this Bush-Did-It crap. Because that line may fool liberal voters but it doesn't address the real problem. And until we confront the real problem, it will not go away!

BO breaks another campaign promise. He promised many times during his campaign to crack down on the use of no-bid contracts. So why is a no-bid contract awarded for $24 million to Checchi and Company Consulting? Because it's owned by Democratic Party donor Vincent Checchi? This is yet another promise that BO has broken. He also pledged to close Gitmo within a year of taking office. Thankfully he broke that one.

Didn't he also say we would be out of Iraq within 6 months of him taking office? LOL

And here's another statement from him during his campaign:
Here's the reality:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,2770904.story
TMF would say anything to get elected. Either he was too naive to do what he wanted, or he would outright lie to get himself into office. And he's still lying when he says he wants to increase our competitiveness, increase skills in math and science, create jobs...

Lemme guess, the solution to all our problems would be to let Sean Hannity call all the shots.

Is there ANYBODY who can save us?

fuck the middle class
 

Elephant lobotomies

A republican found a magic genie's lamp and rubbed it. The genie said : "I will grant you one wish." He said : "I wish I were smarter". So the genie made him smarter. The next day he became a Democrat.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." :lol:
John Stuart Mill

"Republicans want to punish work and reward wealth; hence the high payroll tax and the low dividend tax. Said one Bush economic adviser, if we can't help wealthy investors and screw working people, what's the point in being a Republican?"
Paul Begala

Why, was Hannity against the bailout?

And when he saw the country was in a financial crisis he said "We need to put ourselves $4 trillion deeper into debt". And the Genie came back and said "WTF??? My apologies I forgot that the democratic party had been hijacked by progressives!" And so he turned the politician into a conservative libertarian, and all was well :yes:

Well yes, there is Palin, Hannity and Dave Ramsey (who uses the Bible as a source for financial strategies). But I think there are one or two exceptions. Like the woman who thought BO would pay for her gas & mortgage...
Oh, and except for BO who's solution to the financial crisis is to put us further into debt. Plus his awesome quote "I?ve now been in 57 states? I think one left to go?"
And uh, then there's Howard Dean who claims Bush let 9/11 happen.
Oh yeah, and Louis Farrakhan: "I heard from a very reliable source who saw a 25 foot deep crater under the levee breach. It may have been blown up to destroy the black part of town and keep the white part dry."
Oh, and don't forget Michael Moore.
And Rosie O'Donnell who doesn't think fire can get hot enough to melt steel
And good ol Joe Biden - at least he's entertaining.
Oh yeah, and Kayne West (many examples)
And MCA of Beastie Boys who complains that Bush puts American's ahead of people in other countries.
And of course Al Sharpton (many many examples)
And Al Gore who claims to have invented the internet, and many more examples.
Oh yeah, and Mike Wallace: ?I couldn?t be happier for the privilege of sitting down with the president of Iran.?
And then there's Jimmy Carter, for his presidency, and for tireless work promoting the causes of Lebanon and Hezbollah.
And let's not forget John Edwards for obvious reasons.

Well this is getting lengthy so I'll cut it short...

calfornicated
 

I just read a survey showing Us Californians haven't a clue where the state's money comes from and what it is spent for. Even the legislators haven't a clue. The state is bankrupt, is there anybody here to get us out of this mess? Hello, any body there? :(

"I'll pay ze Rent"

Looks like there's some kind of error in BO's budget. There's $1.6 trillion in unfunded expenses. How did that happen. Do they have a calculator?

Taxes
 

Just to be fair. :eek:

Trillions
 

Legalize pot. You'll see a surplus in no time.

Good news everybody!

Nixon's grandson is running for Congress!

http://townhall.com/columnists/David...o_watch?page=1

Lets break for a word from our sponsor.

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Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab said-
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Brian Williams announced-
"Brilliant! Hee Haw meets Walter Conkrite!"

Ahem, what about this little filly?:turnoff::rolleyes:

Move her to the back of the bus.

RANDY:

Good one! Right person, right thread!!

TAL

Oh wonderful. The ex-community organizer from Chicago is going to play rocket scientist. Yes, please Obama. Tell the organization who literally wrote the book on going to the moon and then went there how it should be done. Tell thousands of us engineers with advanced degrees in aerospace, computer science, mathematics, physics, mechanical & electrical engineering how it's supposed to work. Because we're just too stupid.

Hi I'm Barack Obama. I stayed at a Holiday Inn and I can show you guys how to really run a space program.

Let's cancel Ares 1 and Orion, Nasa's next rocket, which has actually flown, in favor of another rocket that hasn't flown yet. And even if it does fly it won't measure up to what Orion could be capable of.

Let's also cancel Ares V, the heavy lift launch vehicle we need to get beyond low earth orbit, because low earth orbit is our goal. Let's research how to build heavy lift vehicles and partner with other countries because we can learn so much from their non-existant heavy lift launchers. Pay no attention to that Saturn V on display over at JSC and KSC that was built using technology from 45 years ago.

Let's cut Nasa's space exploration program, which was only short $3 billion, and end Nasa's shuttle fleet. THEN we can add a $billion to Nasa's budget and direct them to take temperature readings and research rocket technologies they already know about for some nebulous undefined far off mission. That way for $2 billion less we can have nothing instead of a lunar program which we can use to learn to harness the resources of the solar system and tap in to Helium-3 from the moon which could power the US for a year using 40 tons of the stuff.


.....

Dumbass

"Who cares about putting a man on the moon? Let's see about putting a man on Condi Rice" -Dave Letterman

Is there anyone with a brain left in this country?

Unfortunately, when politicians are trying to save their ass. Yeah, layoff skilled engineers developing future technologies so we can feed the winos, politician logic. Pathetic :censored:

[quote=jimnaseum;130904]WT? One day you whine about a trillion dollar deficit, the next day you want to colonize Mars?

You don't understand, our interest in Mars is to do what the English did when they colonized Australia. We would send our misfits to Mars! ;)

I'm not talking about a $trillion. I'm talking about just $2 billion more. Something that fits well within our resources if it weren't for literally $trillions being wasted on crap. And I'm talking about a program that will have massive payoffs if it's done right.

Stop being racist.

At least Obama knows his place. Here he is bowing to the mayor YES THE MAYOR of Tampa Florida :lol:

Next he'll be bowing to the Burger King :lol::lol:

(sigh) Eisenhower learned about nation-building by taking Nazi Germany apart. He had a real fondness for their Autobahn and replicated it in the US in the fifties. It's still a large part of our commerce and economy INFRASTRUCTURE. He also made it a point to parade the German townspeople through the concentration camps because "They'll try to say this never happened" THEY were the Industrial Military Complex he warned us about.
The Industrial Military Complex is a very important part of the Republican Party. They have a Propoganda machine and factories and ideas and plans. There followers are very loyal.
The Obama is going to show everyone that we didn't need IraqII and that we didn't need Cheney. We don't need to serve BIG OIL. The Obama is going to REDISTRIBUTE the money to the PEOPLE. He's going to do EXACTLY what the Republicans SAID they wanted to do, but never had any intention to do.
Haven't Fox viewers ever seen that Republican plans for a Rich Vital America always lean toward giving power to the rich and powerful? Obama's the new Sherriff in town. He gonna tear that Fox Station DOWN!

Unreal!!
 

TRACY:

Conse 'Pubs are linguists, no? Here are some examples I've heard!

That is $300,000 that he's going to waste on that! Do you know how much money that is?

That program will cost $200B for 3 or 4 years! That's almost a trillion dollars!!
$600B to $800B is almost what? In other words, 60% to 80% is almost 100%.

It's not trillions; it's ONLY $2B!

TAL

The "other" white meat.

I'm a PEOPLE. Certainly not one of those who make over $200,000. And BO will be taking money away from me. So much for that plan.

The deficit
 

Marshall Auerback explains how the deficit works


A Few Overlooked Facts on Deficits
Where to begin? Since the days of George Washington?s administration, national budget deficits and increased public debt have been the rule on all but about six very short occasions. And the US has generally prospered. Why? Far from being a burden, the deficits, and the corresponding government bonds, constitute the foundation of private financial wealth in any nation that creates its own sovereign currency for use by its citizens. Debt owed by the government yields net income to the private sector, unlike all purely private debts, which merely transfer income from one part of the private sector to another. In basic national accounting terms, government deficits equal non-government savings surpluses.
Private holdings of government bonds also constitute an income source ? that is, the government interest payments on its outstanding debt constitute another avenue for stimulus. So when the government retires debt, it reduces private incomes ? just as when it runs budget surpluses, it constrains private sector demand directly by reducing private income and access to adequate currency. Just ask any pensioner if he/she is happy when the income stream from annuities has declined.
Take away that debt, and you take away income. It is no coincidence that the budget surpluses of the Clinton years (wrongly trumpeted as a great fiscal triumph by President Obama) subsequently led to recessions: government budget surpluses ultimately restrict private sector demand and income growth and force greater reliance on PRIVATE debt. Does anybody think it is a coincidence that two of the longest and largest periods of budget surpluses in America history ? the periods of 1997-2000 and 1927-1930 ? were followed by calamitous economic collapses?
There are ample analyses which explain how government surpluses drain aggregate demand (here, here, and here). Suffice to say, a government budget surplus has two negative effects for the private sector: the stock of financial assets (money or bonds) held by the private sector, which represents its wealth, falls; and private disposable income also falls as tax demands exceed income. And, as Stephanie Kelton has noted, the case of Japan illustrates that despite a debt-to-GDP ratio in excess of 100%, the Bank of Japan never lost the ability to set the key overnight interest rate, which has remained below 1% for about a decade. And, the debt didn?t drive long-term rates higher either.


Obama?s Deficit Confusion
Let?s consider a real world example to demonstrate the President?s conceptual confusion on government deficits. We?re in a recession. Our American citizen who was working in a pie shop has lost his job even though his productivity was just as high during the boom years. As the recession intensified, pie demand fell, as did consumer demand in general. Fearing that their wealth holdings are not going to appreciate as quickly as they did in prior periods, households are saving more money out of their income flows.
The pie guy wants to exercise his freedom to work hard for money. So do 152 million other people. But there are jobs available for only 138 million of them, given current business perceptions of money profit prospects from production now and in the future. The pie guy is stuck with over 15 million other people who would like to exercise their freedom to work hard for money. Over 6 million of those people have been trying to exercise that freedom for over half a year, with no luck. They are dumpster diving for leftover pie scraps.
In desperation, the pie guy has gone back to the pie shop to offer his services for a lower money wage, but unit pie demand is still down, even though the owner has cut pie prices. However, the pie owner, facing lower prices per pie, decides to hire the pie guy back at a lower wage and fires one of his other workers to scratch his way to a little higher profit. Are we all any better off? I suppose pies are cheaper, but then so to are incomes earned by pie makers lower.
In that situation, someone else has to take up the spending slack. Fortunately, we live in an economic system in which a government can freely spend and fill the gap left by the private sector. It has the unique capacity to spend without the constraint of a private firm on productive job creation, thereby increasing output, not just redistributing it. Just giving the pie firm a payroll tax cut on new hires is not going to generate more jobs. Rather, giving it to all employees will lead to more pie sales. Instead of decrying the government deficits, then, the President should be celebrating them as a form of economic salvation.
The problem obviously isn?t about money which a government can always create. The ultimate irony is that in order to somehow ?save? public funds for the future, as the President appears to be advocating, what we do is cut back on expenditures today, which does nothing but set our economy back and cause the growth of output and employment to decline. Worse yet, the great irony is that the first thing governments generally cut back on is education ? the one thing the mainstream agrees should be done that actually helps our children 50 years down the road. Education cutbacks ? as any Californian can tell you ? are something that does hurt us, as well as harming our children AND our grandchildren down the road. This is the true ?intergenerational theft?, not ?runway? government spending.
The False Household Budget Analogy
Like many other people who embrace the nostrums of the Concord Coalition (an advocacy group supporting the deficit hawk themes), the President continues to view government spending through a false household budget analogy:
?There are certain core principles our families and businesses follow when they sit down to do their own budgets. They accept that they can?t get everything they want and focus on what they really need. They make tough decisions and sacrifice for their kids. They don?t spend what they don?t have, and they make do with what they?ve got.?
Yes, it?s true: If households spend more than their income now, they have to borrow. To pay the loan back they have to ensure that they can dedicate adequate income in the future, either by increasing incomes somehow or diverting existing income from consumption. If a household borrows too much, it will face major corrections in its balance of income and expenditure and consequently may have to seriously forgo spending later.
That is the logic that the users of the currency have to consider every day. They have to finance every $ they spend and so planning is required to ensure they don?t blow out their personal balance sheets. If all households attempt to net save by spending less than they are earning, and businesses attempt to net save (reinvesting less than their retained earnings), then private sector incomes and real output will decline absent an increase in government spending.
But it?s not the same for a government. The government is the creator of a currency. It can spend now. It can also spend later. And it can service and pay back the debt without compromising anything. A government, unlike a household or a private business, can choose to exact greater tax revenues by imposing new taxes or raising tax rates.
Notwithstanding the obvious reality that sovereign governments have no solvency risk because they create their own currency, most financial commentators (and the President?s own advisors) still waste their time talking about sovereign default risks. Unfortunately, the President implicitly legitimizes this sort of talk when he speaks about the need for government to embrace budgeting like a household does. This is what we presume he has in mind when he discusses the long term dangers of government deficits. Firms, households, and even state and local governments require income or borrowings in order to spend. But the federal government?s spending is not constrained by revenues or borrowing. It is constrained only by what our population chooses as national goals.
Getting Past the Deficit Myth


The President, unfortunately, has yet to put the pieces of the puzzle together. He also fails to understand the idea that a government like the United States ? i.e. one that issues a sovereign currency ? can meet any and all outstanding financial obligations, provided the debts are denominated in the national currency. In this regard, the size of the national debt is irrelevant. This myth, and this myth alone, underpins arguments by orthodox economists against government activism in macroeconomic policy. The President does his Administration and the country no service by continuing to jump on this mythical bandwagon.
Myths may constitute good grounds for literature, but they are a horrible foundation for sound economic policy.
Roosevelt Institute Braintruster Marshall Auerback is a market analyst and commentator.

No, republicans are talking about how the programs funded in this budget will leave us with a debt of over $20 trillion in ten years. You can call that linguistics, but it still means we're fucked.

I'm talking about an extra $2 billion. You know, like last year when the cash for clunkers program needed an extra $2 billion. Congress instantly says, sure no problem. Here you go. But maintain the US's lead in space? Invest in future technologies that will provide literally worlds of resources, no that's too expensive.

What are you talking about? You sound like a broken record with this race crap. Why are you bringing up peoples color?

Jimbo, Hitler's naziism and conservatism are not related. He's more closely related to Progressives of the early 1900s and their re-emergence under Obama. The Nazis aimed to control every aspect of its citizens lives. That sounds more like the universal health care they tried to pass (something hitler wanted), and like how they're taking control of industries. Nazis were a cradle to grave welfare state. At the beginning Hitler's right-hand man Johseph Gobells claimed that Lenin was a great man 2nd only to Hitler, and that the differences between Naziism and Communism was very slight. In the late 19th century to the early 1900s upper class british and US progressives embraced eugenics, saying millions had to be marched off into gas chambers and liquidated. George Bernard Shaw said we should play classical music while people are marched into the gas chamber. The Germans didn't invent genocide, they only perfected it and actually put it into practice. So how are the Nazis more like right wingers?

Tracy, I'm BAITING you with the race and right wing nazi crap, and Randolph, those 800 word essays hurt my comic book mind. I did see in the paper today that deficits have been THE norm in the modern era I think they could have surplus they really wanted to, but that would just mean some needy people didn't get funded. Which brings me to the mystery of what Obama really is up to.
If he cannot turn around jobs by October, uh oh. He's got MOST of the stimulus left to spend, so he can pour that into the economy through small business inticements, I bought a new Honda last summer, $4500 off!
I didn't even want a new car! When it comes to people, I'm a commie. When it comes to cash, I'm John Dillinger. I don't see any conflict with that.
Here's the thing- What you see about Obama is what he wants you to see. Bush was too stupid and corrupt to pull that off, anyway, he took orders from The Skull and Crossbones guys. Obama is smart as shit and I swear to God he is trying to do the right thing for this country, but he's got cards in his hand nobody knows about. THAT IS THE STORY HERE. He's not playing the EXCITING cards yet, and Republicans have cards too. Hillary would never be as AUDACIOUS as Obama. Before this whole thing is over, your going to see Obama throw down some WILD CARDS!!! Sean Hannity will be pissing his pants!
PS Tracy, my hate and total disgust for Fox news is totally genuine.

Ok, you never know who you're dealing with on here.

It doesn't matter what cards he has. The bottom line is he's burying this country in debt.

BTW, you owe me .00128 cents for your Honda.

Don't bet against Obama.
Once this Insurance Bill is passed in ANY form, you'll have Schools, Social Security, Healthcare. All paid for in the budget. Once the people get it, they're not going to give it up, unamerican or not. Republicans will rise again, eventually, but with rising healthcare costs, education costs, retirement costs, there won't be much pie left to steal.

TRACY:

Conse 'Pubs feel they have every right to be outraged if Obama drops $10,000 to go to the theater, but $2B is ONLY $2B.

Do you feel that people have the right to demand Obama's birth certificate?

TAL

If you buy something with your credit card, you don't consider it paid for do you? LOL

If the budget isn't balanced, it's not all paid for. And these costs will show up again and again in up coming budgets. And you're right. Once they're in there, they are there to stay. The debt will skyrocket. It will be clearly impossible for the US to repay the debt. China and other countries will see this and stop buying our debt. They will decouple their economies from the US dollar and our economy will implode.

This is the obvious conclusion, so the only thing that makes sense is that you want this for some reason?

Are you being willfully ignorant? What potential benefit to our economy is there if BO goes to the theater?

Why not? When anyone is hired they have to show their social security card. Not a website with an image of it... the actual card. The requirements for president are that you have to be a US citizen among other things. This is just procedure and shouldn't be an issue.

When BO fouled up the words to the oath of office, he retook the oath soon after. That wasn't even required. He went above and beyond procedure just to remove any ammunition from critics. If he's conscious of how something like that is perceived, I think it's odd that he wouldn't even follow procedure in another case.

Jeez, the hustle never ends.

TRACY:

I think you should review the tape. It was Roberts who flubbed the oath.

If Obama has to prove he's an American, Conse 'Pubs will back off of nothing, because they have not even backed off of that.

So, Obama cannot spend a dime on himself, but only on things Conse 'Pubs want? No wonder you want him impeached and convicted.

TAL

Yeah it was Roberts who flubbed it, but it caused BO to flub it as well, which is why he redid it. My point remains.

What are you talking about? I'm just saying there's a procedure to follow like anyone else when they start a job. It's just paperwork. No reason to make a big thing of it.

You're putting a lot of words in my mouth. Did I say BO couldn't spend a dime on himself? You're the one who brought up the theater thing, and it had nothing to do with my reasoning for having him impeached.

TRACY:

Name one issue that Conse 'Pubs have backed off of since 9/08?

(Citizenship, Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright and The Fairness Doctrine)
In other words, Obama is an illegal alien, a terrorist, a racist, and against freedom of speech.

Is Obama deliberately ruining the country?

TAL

TRACY:

So, Roberts' flub caused Obama to flub, which brings Obama's citizenship and motives into question? Any reasonable person would agree with you that Obama needs to be questioned, because it's so obvious?

TAL