Maybe Ila has something going up there that we don't know about. ;)

Randolph should think twice before becoming an enabler. :lol:[/QUOTE]

Close; Randolph is a provocateur~.

Close; Randolph is a provocateur~.[/quote]

I would love to meet a shemale that says "aboot". :lol:

[I would love to meet a shemale that says "aboot". :lol:[/QUOTE]

Can't help you there. Ya looking for a "bluenoser".

Can't help you there. Ya looking for a "bluenoser".[/quote]

I think it's too cold up there. I am going to head South and look for a "hot tamale" that says "si". :lol:

Ahhh, Tea Party America. :rolleyes:

Tax cuts for the rich. :frown:

Now come on Randolph just listen to the GOP they claim it's vital for the rich to get all the cuts as they create the jobs

So why is unemployment at an all time high?
There tried answer is blame the Dems and to fix everything is simple just keep cutting taxes for the rich
Oh by the way the reason the goverment is bankrupt is because of intitlements not W's two wars and the massive joblosses durning W's eight years
Oh don't forget that's it the UNIONS fault that a lot of states are now in the red
So we now have the cry cut taxes for the rich end entitlements and destroy all unions and everything will be great
in others words Reagenonic round 3 so all the non rich just bend over while the GOP does it agian and we get :coupling:
:frown: Jerseygirl Jen

Listen to this girl Randolf, she's pretty smart. Just a couple of things though Jen, you can probably call Gulf War II Bush's war, even though both houses voted for it, and it had unanimous support in the UN, but you're calling the Afghanistan war Bush's war? Didn't Bin Laden and Al Qaeda have something to do with that? And I would hardly characterize an average 5% unemployment rate during Bush's terms as massive joblosses. It's the best unemployment rate since the late 60s.

OK Here is a proposal.
Fran, Jen, Tracy, SMC and Randolph get together at a Southie bar in Boston for libations and political discussion.
Fran would take bets on who would get thrown out of the bar first. :lol:

Is the point to be thrown out of the bar? Where's the fun in that?

Oh well, my attempts at a little humor have failed again. :confused:

My god, did you think I was being serious? I was asking "tongue-in-cheek."

In any case, were the point to be thrown out of the bar first, I assure you that I know the buttons to push in Southie that would win me the "honors." However, I would prefer to lose so I could stay in the bar and get shitfaced.

Yep, that's where the humor is, discussing politics while shitfaced.
I've tried that a few times, we end up agreeing on having another drink. :lol:

If I find myself at a table in a bar with drinks and Fran, political debate is the last thing I'm thinking about.

The California economy is NOT improving in spite of optimistic prognostications from Washington and New York. Employment is 250,000 LOWER than it was ten years ago. Food Stamp demand is increasing in the area where I liv (Riverside County) and is higher than any where else in the US.
This is in spite of billions of tax money poured into banks and financial institution, ostensibly to "stimulate" the economy. It appears most of the stimulus money has gone into the stock market, making millions of profits for investors but not doing much for the economy.
The other problem is the price of gasoline. California is a commuter economy. The economy is extremely sensitive to the price of gasoline. A major escalation in price will severely and prevent any economic recovery in California.

I know how you feel Randolph. I live in the pomona area and gas is ridiculous. I do know of 2 people that have lost their jobs because they cannot commute to work and make it a worthwhile. Gas costs more than what they are actually making. I filled up my tank with $67 the other day. :censored: I'm hoping it doesn't get as bad as it did in the summer of 2008.

Yes, too much money goes to the educate system (I'm preparing for a hate mail on this one), prison systems, unions and government workers. And brown wants to extend taxes in June!?!?! oh hell no!!! Californians.. please say NO to tax increases!!!

During the coming presidential campaign you will probably be asked: "Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?" You can bet it will not be Obama asking that question.

Well, I would have to agree with much of what you say. California is over regulated, overly bureaucratic and the legislature is corrupt. Infrastructure is disintegrating while urban renewal funds are spent on things the Board of Supervisors can brag about. Like fancy sports complexes and expensive community centers that have their names plastered on them. Aarggg!

Yeah, 'they' are building a football stadium in the diamond bar/walnut area and 'they' are also trying to build another sports stadium in LA. One of the people who was for the LA stadium said something along the lines, "traffic will be no problem, the LA freeways can handle about twice as many cars than what it has right now." I guess he/she has never driven down the 10 freeway at 6pm on a weekday. :censored:

Hey, anybody working for the arms industry should be very happy with Obama. He is the biggest Presidential arms dealer in recent memory. The Wikileaks documents spell it out in Fortune magazine. Two hundred and fifty thousand workers here in the US are working full time making weapons for international trade. Of course, Israel get top of the line.

I can honestly say i'm doing better as for the last two years i got a pay raise along with an cost of living increase thanks to our union

While back in the W years it was pay freezes and a pay cut, we accepted the pay cut to aviod layoffs

:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

Always true to your talking points... Are YOU better off than you were 4 years ago?

That's great. Looks like all your hard work paid off. Or was it just an automatic raise that comes with being part of a union? In other words did the dems pay for your vote with my taxes?

Yep, sitting on my nest egg (stayed on the sidelines during the boom).

Oh ok, I thought you were saying that ...

Obama should declare MARTIAL: LAW in Detroit and have a new MANHATTAN PROJECT invent a car that lasts 40 years and runs on french fry grease. Made by the army. Costing 10 grand each for the safest, most economical greenest reliable smartest vehicle ever made. Waiting for the World to fall out of love with oil takes too long.

In the good old days we had strong active unions that supported the Democratic Congressmen. Their influence helped moderate big business support of the Republican Congressmen. Decisions by Congress were usually a compromise between the two. This strengthen and maintained the well being of the working middle class.
Foreign competition along with persistent effort by the Republicans and big business, has essentially eliminated the union movement, except for some public employees. Consequently, both parties and all congressmen are now beholden to big business. The working middle class and especially the poor, have no influence in Congress. This does not bode well for the Nation.
Just look at the billions of taxpayer money poured into the financial institutions to bail them out, supposedly to get the economy going again. Well, much of it has gone into the stock market enriching the very people who created the crash. The market will crash again, the taxpayers will be stuck again. But will there be a next time?
Isn't time the American public stood up and said enough is enough?

What about discussing politics butt ass naked? Would that result in buttseks?

How does my pay raise increase your taxes? I'm not a state employee or goverment employee i'm a bank teller

And before you ask the bank i work for didn't not get part of the bail out
And fyi our raises are mostly based on merit and job preformance
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

Now that could be fun as we let it all hang out

:lol: Jerseygirl Jen

[QUOTE=TracyCoxx;179191lf War II Bush's war, even though both houses voted for it, and it had unanimous support in the UN, but you're calling the Afghanistan war Bush's war? Didn't Bin Laden and Al Qaeda have something to do with that? And I would hardly characterize an average 5% unemployment rate during Bush's terms as massive joblosses. It's the best unemployment rate since the late 60s.[/QUOTE]



You forgot to mention that W and his crew lied there A$$ES of to both houses
and your average 5% is another shellgame played on the public from the liar W you forget that he was always calling up the reserves to go fight so they left there jobs to go fight creating a ton of temp jobs taking people of the unemployment line and W as usual lied at the numbers and FOX news helped sell the shell game
In truth W lost more jobs then he created and more people fell in to poverty
:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

Are there going to be some rules or shall we just have a drunken orgy? :drool:;)

Like under the boardwalk? on a hot summers night :innocent:


:cool: Jerseygirl Jen

We don't have a boardwalk here so I guess we will have to meet in New Jesey. Umm, who is going to provide the drinks? :innocent:

Ok ok. Congrats then. I was thinking it was a cost of living increase.

And you forgot to mention:

"Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed." -- Madeline Albright, 1998

"(Saddam) will rebuild his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction and some day, some way, I am certain he will use that arsenal again, as he has 10 times since 1983" -- National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, Feb 18, 1998

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." -- Bill Clinton in 1998

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003

"Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people." -- Tom Daschle in 1998

"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -- Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998

"Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq still has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production." -- Ex-Un Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter in 1998

lol... let's get this straight... This month unemployment dropped .1% to 8.9 meaning that 192,000 people found work. If we do the math, you're saying the 3.9% gain in unemployment since Bush is due to almost 7.5 million troops coming home? Holy crap, I never knew we had so many troops over there!

The difference between the Clinton-era statements on Iraq and the ones from the Bush Administration are obvious. Tracy Coxx, though -- as is typical -- conveniently ignores this in Tracy Coxx's usual way. Instead of responding to the charge of Bush lies, Tracy posts things to divert attention away from what Jen raised.

Unfortunately for Tracy, as has been demonstrated time and again on this site, the truth has a nasty habit of not going away. Fortunately for Tracy, the anonymity of the Internet affords the opportunity to ignore the truth and just keep spewing bullshit without ever having to face (literally) anyone else in the discussion. So, unlike what might happen in a school setting, where this kind of crap would be put to rest pretty quickly, we have to give up bandwidth for more of Tracy's prevarication and not-so-clever diversions.

A LIE:

"The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program ... Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons." -- Bush, Oct. 7, 2002, in Cincinnati.

The above is the famous Judith Miller baloney that was debunked.

A LIE:

"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." -- Bush, Jan.28, 2003, in the State of the Union address.

The CIA had already told Bush this wasn't true, but he said it anyway.

A LIE:

"[The CIA possesses] solid reporting of senior-level contacts between Iraq and al-Qaeda going back a decade." -- CIA Director George Tenet in a written statement released Oct. 7, 2002 and echoed in that evening's speech by President Bush.

While intelligence agencies knew of tentative contacts between Saddam and al-Qaeda in the early 1990s, they never found any proof of an ongoing relationship. Language was "tweaked" so Bush and Tenet could present a lie.

A LIE: "Yes, we found a biological laboratory in Iraq which the UN prohibited." -- President Bush in remarks in Poland, published internationally June 1, 2003.

This was reference to the discovery of two modified truck trailers that the CIA claimed were potential mobile biological weapons lab. But British and American experts -- including a report from the State Department's intelligence wing -- declared to be untrue. According to the British, and much to Prime Minister Tony Blair's embarrassment, the trailers are actually exactly what Iraq said they were; facilities to fill weather balloons, sold to them by the British themselves.

Shall I go on? There are upwards of 200-plus lies that have been documented about Iraq by the Bush Administration.

Bush and his buddies could be considered consequentialists. That is, they believed, "the end justifies the means". It is OK to lie, distort, kill, cheat, whatever, in order to achieve the desired objective. In this case, it was the removal of Saddam and the achievement of economic control over Iraq.

At the end of the day, the real question is:

Which side are you on?

In this thread, a lot of the posters seem to be on the side of the guy on the left, even though that side cares nothing about their interests.

Go figure ... :confused:

The political spectrum in the US--and as a result the political spectrum in my country--is absurd. Both choices present you with corporatism/empire and there is nowhere to turn to. All progressive voices are silenced or ridiculed.

In my country the choices are a) remain in a subservient/slavish status to the US or b) transform ourselves into the 51st state of America. Neither of these satisfy me since both require playing party to imperialism.

And let's not forget that the Clinton administration wanted inspections whereas Bush wanted to go in no matter the cost--how many people have been killed by American bullets? Colin Powell was sent to the UN with bullshit photos. And when all this shit (and more!) hit the fan and the lie was exposed they hid it.

You know, I'd love to read Tracy's response to smc's post. Because a) she seems curiously silent about it (which it appears to me she often does rather than admit she was wrong) and b) because her use of Clinton era quotes appears to me to be the typical juvenile response to challenges of "the other guy did it too." Reminds me of the religious saying scientists have their own myth in the form of evolution, which is tantamount to the religious saying "see, they're just as stupid as we are."

As the GOP controled house are hard at work demanding budget cuts ie :coupling: the working poor and demanding lower taxes for the rich and cutting taxes on corparations who are so over taxed like poor GE who made over 5 billion in profit and will not be paying one red cent in taxes
So someone tell me what's wrong with this picture
face it folks we go double :coupling: from the GOP and there trickle down encomny, GE making billions a year in profits and not paying taxes is Reaganomics showing it's ugly head
:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

As the old saying goes, "We are being screwed glued and tattooed" :censored:

Well today Paul Ryan of the GOP gave his verson of the 2012 budget and i give him credit as he seems very serious about doing away with the red ink but thats where the credit ends as this budget is another GOP FU TO THE COMMON PERSON as once agian the GOP are showing who they really care about cutting trillions of dollars but cuting medicare and medicade and planed parents but giveing the top tax bracket another tax cut going with the GOP'S ideals that the rich shall not pay any of the national debit nor shall they sufer from any planed cuts and corpate welfare will also not sufer so the oil companies can rest easy and will recive billions from the goverment and the working poor will get to pay the tab and sufer from the cuts
looks like the 2012 budget is another big :coupling: from the GOP as the continue to only be looking out for the rich and big bussiness and give the rest of us the BS about trickle down
:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

Don't worry Jen, the money saved is going to a good cause, the military. It will enable the military to bomb more countries with multimillion dollar bombs. You see, we are trying to protect the world from suicide bombers that kill themselves and other people. Our bombs are good bombs, they usually just kill bad guys. That's why they are so expensive. :censored:

It all makes me think of the nobility of the past. They did everything they could not to pay taxes. And in places they paid none at all. All the burden was on the working people they exploited. Does this sound familiar?

That the financial burden is largely on the backs of the working people as opposed to the rich contributing a fair share appears--emphasis on appears--to be largely lost on the population. Or maybe it isn't lost but the news elides this. The news organizations in the US are mostly pathetic what with Fox News and their psycho newspeople and CNN and their ridiculous use of Twitter, Facebook, News Roulette, etc etc. It's quite embarrassing. And I don't see how they would air meaningful information regarding the financial troubles. This is what you get with corporate media. The people responsible for all these things are never held responsible because all that precious ad revenue would dry up.

Check out the English version of Aljazerra. Some real news there.