Serious Question for Transwomen

[tgsexual]

I'm quite interested in the variation in the personal reasons why transwomen undertake SRS and also in your opinions about what kind of deversity exists in the reasons other transwomen have.

I know a few theories. The second 2 below can seem offensive to some. No offense is intended. Please add your thoughts and other theories or explanations that you think should be considered.

1. The feeling of having a penis feels discordant with with the transwoman's gender identity.
2. Sexual gratification is increased by the self-perception of having a female appearance / genitals.
3. Social influence / pressures makes transwomen feel more accepted as women or transwomen. e.g. Don't feel perceived as complete or as pure a transwoman while they have a penis.

I've been told that no.1 (If I've worded it clearly enough) is the main motivation for most who want SRS. However, I've also met a post-operative transwoman, who had the surgery over 30 years ago, who believed it was a mistake and that most transwomen were doing it for the wrong reasons. She actively discouraged SRS to young transwomen.

Hence, I'm not quite sure what to think, or more importantly, how transwomen think about the motivations for SRS. All opinions appreciated.

To the guys here, please avoid piping in unless you've considered this topic with due sensitivity and consideration.

[Bionca]

Good question.

I think the motivations are going to be as different as the women themselves. I will say that all three are correct and not mutually exclusive.

I can say that absolutely physical discordance with the body was a HUGE motivation for my various surgeries. With increased comfort with one's body can come increased sexual gratification.

The social part of SRS is problematic. It is not uncommon for TG health to assume SRS as the only valid destination. That all other opinions are fetishistic or wrong. Given that in most places documentation cannot be changed without SRS there is further pressure for trans women to go that route.

I have one friend who is saving for SRS because it's just easier. She hasn't been swimming at a beach or public pool in 10 years, she doesn't do many of the physical activities she used to like to do because of fear that she won't be able to hide being trans.

[tgsexual]

Thanks Bionca for getting the ball rolling and for some great insights.

Yes, the combination of motivations may not be mutually exclusive.

The issue of changing gender on documentation is particularly troubling as an incentive as some countries require SRS before they'll allow a gender change to allow visas, marriage, workplace rights etc. It's a kind of castration by state to say you can only marry X or live in Z if you have SRS. Unfortunately, sometimes that is the first step on the path to laws allowing voluntary gender changing. One awkward step at a time.

I guess wanting to have SRS so that one doesn't stand out, so to speak, is part of the social influence / pressure category. That may not seem to some a legitimate reason, but it's a real pressure and SRS can make some aspects of fitting in, in this world, more comfortable.

That said, if I my transgirlfriend wanted to undertake SRS based solely on that, I'd try to talk her out of it. But there's a line where one goes past being a bit self interested (such as asking your girlfriend to wear her hair this way or that) and being greedy tyrant that demands their partner to be something that clearly troubles her. Finding these lines can be tricky in all relationships.

That brings to mind the issue of finding suitable partners, and the role that plays in making the decision to undertake SRS or not. Opinions?

[Creedence]

I just think that they decide to have SRS because it's their final step to becoming a complete woman.

Something they have been waiting for their entire lives to do, I'm merely guessing so please don't attack me if I am wrong.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by tgsexual

I'm quite interested in the variation in the personal reasons why transwomen undertake SRS and also in your opinions about what kind of deversity exists in the reasons other transwomen have.

I know a few theories. The second 2 below can seem offensive to some. No offense is intended. Please add your thoughts and other theories or explanations that you think should be considered.

1. The feeling of having a penis feels discordant with with the transwoman's gender identity.
2. Sexual gratification is increased by the self-perception of having a female appearance / genitals.
3. Social influence / pressures makes transwomen feel more accepted as women or transwomen. e.g. Don't feel perceived as complete or as pure a transwoman while they have a penis.

I've been told that no.1 (If I've worded it clearly enough) is the main motivation for most who want SRS. However, I've also met a post-operative transwoman, who had the surgery over 30 years ago, who believed it was a mistake and that most transwomen were doing it for the wrong reasons. She actively discouraged SRS to young transwomen.

Hence, I'm not quite sure what to think, or more importantly, how transwomen think about the motivations for SRS. All opinions appreciated.

To the guys here, please avoid piping in unless you've considered this topic with due sensitivity and consideration.

Hope I'm not piping in here without sensitivity and due consideration...

I will for ever challenge the view that genitals are necessarily signifying gender. When trans*women choose to go through SRS it's probably based on an adopted societal modus operandum that a penis sits on a man, a vagina in a woman and all that jazz. It may be a strong and personal feeling, but it's none the less based on a rather traditional view on sexual organs.

Could they ever truly realize that gender identity happens between the ears and not between the thighs, many regrets would be avoided.

But we live in a prude mentality society that continuously mistakes sexual attributes with gender identification, and as long as transsexuals buy into that false perception they will keep mutilating themselves. Some may feel happy and liberated, others may regret it...

Next step is to get a future laser-treatment for changing the cromozomes...

The thing is to change the legal aspects so that trans*women and men can get a legal gender change without the SRS and regrets that follow. To just accept that ppl have their ways and should be allowed to without all the cruelty.

That may be a far fetched future... damn, b4 we get there, we MAY actually be able to change the cromozomes medically...

But what a shame that it remains so hard for our socalled democratic societies to acccept something as both beautiful and harmless as transsexuality.

H

[transjen]

I knew since i was about 6 years old that i should have been a girl, So this wasn't a phase i was going thru or just some whim this was always how i felt so i decided to stop trying to live a lie and this past Jan i took a trip to Thailand and had SRS because it was something i had to do and now for the first time in my life i feel at home in my own body my outside now matchs how i feel on the inside and i have no regrets
:D Jerseygirl Jen

[barry]

Originally Posted by transjen

I knew since i was about 6 years old that i should have been a girl, So this wasn't a phase i was going thru or just some whim this was always how i felt so i decided to stop trying to live a lie and this past Jan i took a trip to Thailand and had SRS because it was something i had to do and now for the first time in my life i feel at home in my own body my outside now matchs how i feel on the inside and i have no regrets
:D Jerseygirl Jen

what a wonderful way to read it - couldnt be happier for you jen - congrats on feeling at home in your own skin

[The_Void]

[OFFTOPIC]

Originally Posted by Creedence

I just think that they decide to have SRS because it's their final step to becoming a complete woman.

Something they have been waiting for their entire lives to do, I'm merely guessing so please don't attack me if I am wrong.

Who is that is your avatar?

[/OFFTOPIC]

[suzie]

Yes Jen well done!

[franalexes]

All three apply in various degrees of influence for all of us.
For myself, locally it is my personna that identifies me, not my body.
"While the rose is beautiful, it is the fragrance we remember."
My friend saw this and said of me,"For you Fran, while the fire is fasinating it is the warmth we seek."

[merelypink]

to deep and serious for me

[tgsexual]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

I will for ever challenge the view that genitals are necessarily signifying gender. When trans*women choose to go through SRS it's probably based on an adopted societal modus operandum that a penis sits on a man, a vagina in a woman and all that jazz. It may be a strong and personal feeling, but it's none the less based on a rather traditional view on sexual organs.

Could they ever truly realize that gender identity happens between the ears and not between the thighs, many regrets would be avoided.

But we live in a prude mentality society that continuously mistakes sexual attributes with gender identification, and as long as transsexuals buy into that false perception they will keep mutilating themselves. Some may feel happy and liberated, others may regret it...

H

That makes me wonder H,

If transwomen were born into a society that quite easily accepted people living with whatever degree of femininity or masuclinity they wanted, or adopt to any number of categories that were considered fine and dandy amongst their brethren, would they still feel the need to make changes to their body that simulate the female status?

Or to go more extreme, if a transwoman was born amongst a colony of only transwomen people, and knew nothing of females, would they feel a desire to reassign their genitals? It's hard to imagine so.

Then again, if one grew up without a penis, and lived amongst women only, having never seen a penis, could they still desire to suck a cock? Perhaps all desires have their origins in our social circumstance.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by tgsexual

That makes me wonder H,

If transwomen were born into a society that quite easily accepted people living with whatever degree of femininity or masuclinity they wanted, or adopt to any number of categories that were considered fine and dandy amongst their brethren, would they still feel the need to make changes to their body that simulate the female status?

Or to go more extreme, if a transwoman was born amongst a colony of only transwomen people, and knew nothing of females, would they feel a desire to reassign their genitals? It's hard to imagine so.

Then again, if one grew up without a penis, and lived amongst women only, having never seen a penis, could they still desire to suck a cock? Perhaps all desires have their origins in our social circumstance.

To me it's kinda simple... ppl keep mistaking genitals for gender... trans*ppl as well as others. Based on my PERSONAL experience (mind you, I'm NOT a scientific researcher - I only react empirically to what my friends and lovers tell me), very few trans*women truly want to cut anything off. Some do, and all best wishes to those who do... but they are hardly representative of trans*women on a broader scale.

Society is to blame for many things. Certainly a lack of true democratic openmindedness that seems to be so hard for any one to accept.

And in that lack of understanding, our democratic law makers keep missing the point. Based on stupidity and a little bit of hatred too, I'm sure.

Taboo rules the world!

Trannies are freaks, ain't they? Pathetic and confused souls with a screwed up mind! Ain't they? The kind of non-ppl we all laugh about and shake our better-witted heads over because we have obviously from the very beginning understood that their gender issues are just hillarious and so totally "elephant-man..." So at least, if they take them selves seriously, then the least they could do is to mutilate them selves. We'll still smile, but at least - after they are severely mutilated - we MAY grant them their ridiculous wishes... the poor, confused souls... who cares? They don't matter a bit any ways... do they?

I get your point, tgsexual, but I still get so sad when this issue comes up, bcuz it is so unreasonable.

H

[alanamead]

From the perception of somebody who's know since they were 5 that they were female (one of the earliest things I can clearly remember in my life), I don't think any single one of these factors stands out. They all affect my thinking about SRS and I'm not in the "I hate my penis" camp - I just want it turned inside out!