Shemales or Transsexuals

[Vanillas]

I was recently chatting with a cam4 shemale and I wrote that she was "cute," by which I meant that she was feminine or girlie. She then launched into a semi-intelligible tirade saying, in essence, that she was a transexual, not a shemale. I am quite new to this and don't want to offend anyone again. Can someone tell me if the term "cute" is onerous to most shemales. Thank You

[franalexes]

Personally it doesn't offend me but if you do a search of some of Bionca's posts, you will find this.
Transexual is the prefered term. Shemale seems to be a porno term and is considered degrading to those who consider the transition to be a serious action. Shemale is a term reserved for those that did a partial change but keep their cock in tack for sexual purposes; therefore "porno" intent. Or should I say they are in a "professional" business?
If you care to do the research, you will find that making the transition is more complicated than say," changing a spark plug".

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by Vanillas

I was recently chatting with a cam4 shemale and I wrote that she was "cute," by which I meant that she was feminine or girlie. She then launched into a semi-intelligible tirade saying, in essence, that she was a transexual, not a shemale. I am quite new to this and don't want to offend anyone again. Can someone tell me if the term "cute" is onerous to most shemales. Thank You

She should be fine being called "cute" - but some Western transsexuals have a political approach to the terms. Screw them... IF you mean well... maybe she was actually cute and fine :-)

I suggest you check wikipedia for a definition of the terms. I've posted stuff here about the vernacular, so I wont do it again.

But Western transsexual women in general take things a bit more seriously (term-wise) than the girls do from where I come. It's a political thing, I think...

BUT always be nice and respectful... calling a woman CUTE should not offend her, though... so keep being who you are,,, no need to be particularly sensitive in your choice of terms as long as you mean people well.

H

[fionahavelock]

Originally Posted by franalexes

Personally it doesn't offend me but if you do a search of some of Bionca's posts, you will find this.
Transexual is the prefered term. Shemale seems to be a porno term and is considered degrading to those who consider the transition to be a serious action. Shemale is a term reserved for those that did a partial change but keep their cock in tack for sexual purposes; therefore "porno" intent. Or should I say they are in a "professional" business?
If you care to do the research, you will find that making the transition is more complicated than say," changing a spark plug".

i feel a little uncomfort with the term shemale cos like you said sounds like a porn thing... transsexual is better then shemale for me..
but yeah, you should be a little carefull with words, some gurls can be sensitive. i'm myself have a list of bad questions that people mostly ask me.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by fionahavelock

i feel a little uncomfort with the term shemale cos like you said sounds like a porn thing... transsexual is better then shemale for me..
but yeah, you should be a little carefull with words, some gurls can be sensitive. i'm myself have a list of bad questions that people mostly ask me.

Yes Fi - always use words carefully, which counts for all aspects of life, actually.

Regarding "shemale" yes, it's mostly considered a term from the adult entertainment industry :-) "Chick with dick" is a similar word if even more derogative.

"Ladyboy" is a bit more neutral, and we both use it occasionally - but remember that here in Asia people tend to be less offended by just words. It's a little bit like "waria" here - kinda neutral.

"Transsexual" is a completely neutral term - still, I have met transsexual women who felt a bit akward about it - they preferred "T-woman".

All words can be used in a good and in a bad way. The thing is to use them with a good meaning, and nobody should be offended.

And hereby, I publicly announce, that your avatar is definitely YOU, darling ;-) How's the translation coming on, by the way? When do I get your first draft, dear?

H

[Creedence]

I've always preferred to say transsexual then shemale because shemale is a porn label, transsexual is essentially the transitioning of someones gender.

Shemale means you'd still consider a transsexual a male and that's not true to them at all.

[racquel]

These terms all have their own crazy connotations to them. I don't personally know any TG/TS girls who actually like the term "shemale" (although obviously there are some in the porn industry who accept it). I think the term "tranny" is similar, although it's something that I use with some of my friends. We call each other "tranny" in the same way that black guys will call each other "nigger," but I pepper sprayed the last guy who referred to me simply as "tranny" -- and he's lucky my concealed handgun license isn't valid in places that serve alcohol.

Seeing "gurl" in print kinda bothers me. In my experience, it's mostly crossdressers who call each other "gurl" and like to go on about how much they love pantyhose and frilly things and put *giggle* in everything they say, and while I know a few nice crossdressers I certainly don't want to be mistaken for one.

I try not to be a jerk about it. I don't expect everybody to know the nuances of the TS community. But many TS girls are pretty on edge and will jump down your throat for just about anything. Please understand, though, that most TS girls have had abuse and hostility their whole lives and can't help assuming that you'll be no different.

In the US it's actually somewhat taboo among the TS community for a girl to transition but not want SRS (sexual reassignment surgery -- removal of the penis and formation of the neo-vagina). A lot of TS girls have a deep hatred towards their penis and want to get rid of it ASAP, and they don't want others to refer to themselves as TS if they want to keep their penis. SRS is a big deal. These girls have to dilate their vaginas before they can have sex, use a lot of lubricant, and will never experience an orgasm again like they did before surgery. That's certainly not something I'm convinced I want, so I usually just refer to myself as transgendered -- at least around post-op girls. Transsexual generally means someone who wants to fully transition to the other sex. Transgendered is a more encompassing term which sometimes even includes crossdressers.

I'm kinda considered a freak among freaks. If I admit I take hormones and had laser hair removal but I actually like my penis ... well ... that doesn't go over well with most TS girls. They generally want to revoke my tranny card. So I don't go into it too much and just let them assume I'm pre-op and want to get rid of my boy parts at some point in the future. I still mostly avoid referring to myself as TS and just use TG instead. There are some "trannier-than-thou" girls who are overjoyed that they can't get an erection and will totally dismiss girls who feel differently.

Most girls you see in shemale porn aren't even on hormones. They just have boob jobs and long hair and maybe laser. This isn't actually all that common (in the US at least). Most places don't want to give you a boob job unless you've been on hormones for a year and been diagnosed with gender identity disorder by a therapist. This is certainly not the case in Brazil, though. I have trouble defining these people, though. I don't see why you would not want to take hormones. I know a lot of girls have some trouble with functionality when on certain meds, but an endocrinologist could adjust that for you. I'm plenty functional, and I take estrogen, a lot of progesterone, DHT blockers, and a low dose of testosterone blockers.

I guess I kinda got to rambling here...

But what do I want other people to call me? TS or TG is fine. Transwoman is probably the most appropriate. Honestly, it doesn't really come up that often. Anyone who's being polite will generally talk to me like any other girl. But it's not like I'm doing webcam shows. My genitalia isn't really the focus of attention in everyday social situations.

But even the girls who do porn would probably rather be addressed like you were talking to a "real" woman. Sure, she's got a penis, but differentiating between her and "real" women can be interpreted as intentionally hurtful unless you're very careful.

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by Vanillas

I was recently chatting with a cam4 shemale and I wrote that she was "cute," by which I meant that she was feminine or girlie. She then launched into a semi-intelligible tirade saying, in essence, that she was a transexual, not a shemale. I am quite new to this and don't want to offend anyone again. Can someone tell me if the term "cute" is onerous to most shemales. Thank You

I think they reply you got was maybe a mis-tell. I imaging that cam girls need to have multiple chats open to optimize their time. It sounds like she was responding to someone else since it just doesn't make sense that she'd bust you up about "shemale" without you calling her one.

Personally, I hate that "shemale" word - seriously. Actually most of those "cute" words thrown out in the porn industry are pretty insulting and objectifying. But you'll have that in all types of porn I guess.

[Bionca]

Raquel -

Your answer was pretty much spot on and saved me much time typing

[racquel]

THX B

Riftgirl has a lot of cool videos on YouTube. She's a non-op M2F girl. She actually made a video on the word shemale:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjMKVyp9GNs

[Be_my_nude]

Originally Posted by Vanillas

I was recently chatting with a cam4 shemale and I wrote that she was "cute," by which I meant that she was feminine or girlie. She then launched into a semi-intelligible tirade saying, in essence, that she was a transexual, not a shemale. I am quite new to this and don't want to offend anyone again. Can someone tell me if the term "cute" is onerous to most shemales. Thank You

I feel that it all depends on how sensitive individuals are to being labelled. We are all guilty of doing this and giving unintended offence to another at some time or other. ( so-called ' racist ' remarks are an example ) As for me, I don't take insult very easily, not even if I'm called a ' Lesbian Bitch ' or whatever. I just think ' Well that's all YOU know ! ' and not give them a chance to find out. Of course we all have a short fuse on a bad day, but there are an waful lot of ignorant people out there who don't know the meaning of the word ' considerate '. Personally I think they are either lazy or pathetic, and why should I let them spoil my day for more than a couple of minutes.

Some of us need to crusade about issues such as this. I don't, but I respect the right of others to feel strongly about matters directly impacting on their own lives.

Bella

[Tsluver23]

My thing is if the person still has a cock then it's a shemale. Not until you go forth with castration will you be considered a transexual.

[racquel]

Originally Posted by Tsluver23

My thing is if the person still has a cock then it's a shemale. Not until you go forth with castration will you be considered a transexual.

I doubt I should even respond to someone who likes to refer to tgirls as "it," but...

Not that this is the absolute authority on transsexualism, but it is the most accepted by doctors and therapists:

http://www.wpath.org/Documents2/socv6.pdf

Transsexualism (F64.0) has three criteria:

1. The desire to live and be accepted as a member of the opposite sex, usually accompanied by the wish to make his or her body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatment;
2. The transsexual identity has been present persistently for at least two years;
3. The disorder is not a symptom of another mental disorder or a chromosomal abnormality.

So it is most accurate to include shemales in with TS girls, although some people would say that if a tgirl has no desire to ever get SRS she should not be called TS.

But obviously pre-op transsexuals are still transsexual. I mean, come on.

[new believer]

Somewhere between the last three posts, I got very lost. At least until Fran made sense with 'straight guys that look prettier and.....' . But I also have to add that I've seen some straight guys who are prettier and more fem than many ,fb's,cd's or tv's on this site. And yet, other members tell them their gorgeous. Ho boy. Then even further, putting me in a dress and makeup, I'd look a cross between a female 'Wolverine' and lassie (poor pooch)

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by Tsluver23

My thing is if the person still has a cock then it's a shemale. Not until you go forth with castration will you be considered a transexual.

I'm not even going to get into transgender vs. Transsexual because that's a stupid way to split hairs.

This issue isn't even at what point one can/should be considered trans* (either gendered or sexual). It has become a discussion of the word "shemale". You have 100% of M2F women here saying they don't like the word to some degree or another. I know plenty of trans*women who work all types of jobs - from escort to teacher and only one of them has any desire to use that word for herself (and she's not in "the industry").

Of the gals who work as escorts or in porn none of them like it. They use it for business reasons and will respond to it, but they don't actually like it. It isn't clever, or empowering, or cute, or even particularly descriptive.

If one is serious about an attraction to Trans*women, perhaps it would be a good idea to leave a word that is problematic for so many of us behind or expect many of us to be offended when it is used.

[Marine_N41_432]

I'm afraid that ' Shemale ' has to be a no-no when adressing an M2f Transgender
Transexual or Transvestite, simply because it is unnecessary. What you see is what you should respond to with some consideration too. Having said that I find ' Shemale ' very useful in a Search for Ladyboy visual material.
Carelessness can hurt feelings, so why not watch what you say. ( No offence to all you spontaneous types on this Forum ! )

[Amy]

I'm curious that the original offence stemmed from use of the word "cute" rather than "shemale".

I for one appreciae it when someone calls me cute. It's not a term I commonly see used outside of genetic females, except in communities like this one.

[Pascal]

A few days ago I was watching foot movies...I love girls feet. Later that night I discovered that it was no girl but a transvestite! I as a man was watching with a hard on in my pants at mans feet! Kinda scary but what does it matter? I liked the feeling. I'm openminded. I love shemales since I saw the first one in a magazine in 1990. A lot of them are more attractive than real women. And I don't care if you're a transvestite, transexual or gay as long as you are a nice person.

[jmadaf]

I think thats where all this discrimination starts is we don't know what to call anybody these days, and say the wrong thing and somebody is offended. And sometimes that is not what we are doing, we are misinformed.

[aussiepride]

Originally Posted by Amy

I'm curious that the original offence stemmed from use of the word "cute" rather than "shemale".

I for one appreciae it when someone calls me cute. It's not a term I commonly see used outside of genetic females, except in communities like this one.

Yeah I am confused by this thread. Is she offended by the word "cute", or calling her a "shemale". There seems to be two differnent responses being posted here.
Which one is it mate? Did u call her a "cute shemale", or just "cute" or just call her a "shemale"?

[smc]

Originally Posted by jmadaf

I think thats where all this discrimination starts is we don't know what to call anybody these days, and say the wrong thing and somebody is offended. And sometimes that is not what we are doing, we are misinformed.

Originally Posted by aussiepride

Yeah I am confused by this thread. Is she offended by the word "cute", or calling her a "shemale". There seems to be two differnent responses being posted here.
Which one is it mate? Did u call her a "cute shemale", or just "cute" or just call her a "shemale"?

Doesn't anyone look at the dates of posts, or at the profiles of members? This question was posted THREE YEARS AGO! The OP hasn't posted anything on this site for more than a year. The OP hasn't been on this site in five months.

And, MOST IMPORTANT, after posting the original question, the OP never once came back to this thread he started and posted anything in response to the discussion he precipitated. That should tell you everything you need to know about why the thread was started in the first place.

[new believer]

Well maybe you're right about some things in your statement here, but the point is that the topic is still relevent. And yes the time goes by. I found two things of interest going over some comments. First, Fran use to be a lot more 'involved' and I do miss her very very much. Seeing her avatar and 'hearing' her comments always brought a happy spark to most of us. I still adore her even though she's somewhat elusive these days.
The second thing I noticed is a comment by me. Well, if I were to put on a dress(sorry, it's not happening)I would no longer look like a female 'wolverine'. I've since shaved off my mutton chops.

Originally Posted by smc

Doesn't anyone look at the dates of posts, or at the profiles of members? This question was posted THREE YEARS AGO! The OP hasn't posted anything on this site for more than a year. The OP hasn't been on this site in five months.

And, MOST IMPORTANT, after posting the original question, the OP never once came back to this thread he started and posted anything in response to the discussion he precipitated. That should tell you everything you need to know about why the thread was started in the first place.

[smc]

Originally Posted by new believer

Well maybe you're right about some things in your statement here, but the point is that the topic is still relevent. And yes the time goes by. I found two things of interest going over some comments. First, Fran use to be a lot more 'involved' and I do miss her very very much. Seeing her avatar and 'hearing' her comments always brought a happy spark to most of us. I still adore her even though she's somewhat elusive these days.
The second thing I noticed is a comment by me. Well, if I were to put on a dress(sorry, it's not happening)I would no longer look like a female 'wolverine'. I've since shaved off my mutton chops.

I'm not going to argue the "relevance" of the topic. However, the question posted by the OP is rather ridiculous ... and wow, did he ever miss the point of the response he got from the women in question. She focused on his gender-identification language, not the word "cute" (if we are to believe the story exactly as written). She told him to refer to her as a "transsexual," not as a shemale. And yet, what is the insipid question he poses?:

Can someone tell me if the term "cute" is onerous to most shemales.

So, am I to understand that what you think is "still relevant" is the question of whether the term cute is "onerous to most shemales"?

Heaven help us.

(And, yes, I note the title of the thread, completely absent from the actual question posed by the OP.)

[DebkoX]

Transsexual it just a person who had a sex change IMO, a shemale is part of the porn stiff

[smc]

Originally Posted by DebkoX

Transsexual it just a person who had a sex change IMO, a shemale is part of the porn stiff

So, you're going to look our transsexual members in the eye and tell them that they are not that because they haven't yet had sexual reassignment surgery? I hope you're prepared to face the wrath you will so richly deserve!

[Wendy Summers]

Originally Posted by smc

So, you're going to look our transsexual members in the eye and tell them that they are not that because they haven't yet had sexual reassignment surgery? I hope you're prepared to face the wrath you will so richly deserve!

I'm going to hope and pray that given the poor grammar that his post was lost in translation and what he meant to say was a transsexual is someone who wants a sex change (A false statement in and of itself but far less objectionable than what was actually said).

Shemale is totally a porn term... I never would have used it before getting into adult entertainment. Now I use it recklessly.

[Bandolero]

Well I give up!

I'm new to this forum and I'm confused.
I always thought "shemale" would not be a nice term to use and it seems I was right.
However, what is the difference between a transgender and a transsexual.
Personally I would like (as a partner) a feminine girl with a functioning cock.
Is that a transgender, a transsexual or even a crossdresser?
I love Asian ladyboys, so what do you call them when they still have a cock?
As I said, I'm new to all this and don't want to offend anyone, just want to use the right definitions.

[Wendy Summers]

All definitions I'm providing refer to people born in male bodies. Flip genders for the other side if need be. As always different people may have slightly different takes on these varying terms.

A Transsexual is someone with the desire to transition across gender lines both physically and socially (the level of which is determined by the individual's need).

A Crossdresser is someone who predominantly lives and identifies as male but lets their "feminine side out" by dressing as a female; While "en femme" they do their best to assume the behaviors and societal roles of females.

A Transvestite is someone who although fully identifying as male, wears the clothing of a female . They often do not have any interest in assuming social norms and behaviors of females.

Transgender is the umbrella term for all of the above.

Good rule of thumb: let the person who are talking with self-identify and refer to them with the terminology they use.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by Wendy Summers

All definitions I'm providing refer to people born in male bodies. Flip genders for the other side if need be. As always different people may have slightly different takes on these varying terms.

A Transsexual is someone with the desire to transition across gender lines both physically and socially (the level of which is determined by the individual's need).

A Crossdresser is someone who predominantly lives and identifies as male but lets their "feminine side out" by dressing as a female; While "en femme" they do their best to assume the behaviors and societal roles of females.

A Transvestite is someone who although fully identifying as male, wears the clothing of a female . They often do not have any interest in assuming social norms and behaviors of females.

Transgender is the umbrella term for all of the above.

Good rule of thumb: let the person who are talking with self-identify and refer to them with the terminology they use.

While it's good to have some clarification, I must say that I've often gotten different answers from different people when it comes to definitions. And it's confusing as all Hell.

For example, one of my online acquaintances told me that a crossdresser and a transvestite are one and the same, and that a transgender is simply a woman's spirit in a man's body (she refers to herself as being a transgender). She further said that a femboi was just a very, very pretty male who, when dressed in woman's clothing, is indistinguishable from a woman.

When I asked where the term ladyboy fit in, she simply said, "that's what a lot of Asian tgirls call themselves." When I asked about the word shemale, she laughed and said "you mean a porn star."
I wouldn't have thought the word "shemale" was offensive; I guess I relate the she to addressing someone as "ma'am" or "madam" or "Miss" or "Ms." Conversely, more often than not, I hear the word tranny used in a derogatory manner. (read: people use as an insult. Name-calling.)

It made me wonder...How many labels do people need? And more importantly, which one is right?

I would venture to say that one reason major men have a hard time approaching transsexuals is due to simply not knowing how to address them. One person is fine with being called a ladyboy, the next person views it as an insult.
This is further compounded by the adult entertainment industry, which tosses the words shemale and tranny about with reckless abandon; And in fact, many of the stars in said films refer to themselves as being shemales and not as being female.
(Sorry girls...but porn is where a lot of guys learn stuff. For good or ill.)

So when you have the terms shemale, transsexual, transgender, tgirl, ladyboy, ladyboi, femboy, femboi (while we're at it, can someone clue me in on the whole "boi" spelling?), crossdresser, cd, tg, tv all being used (correctly or not) interchangeably...yeah. One can get a little lost on what is or is not proper or accurate.
Which can be a very bad thing when you think you're referring to someone respectfully, and you only end up infuriating them instead.

Put another way...perhaps the lack of success with being approached has less to do with what is between one's legs, and more to do with the label they insist on carrying?

I realize that being addressed properly is a big deal for a lot of people, and the last thing I'd want to do to anyone I'm trying to get to know would be insult them. But...well when you look at the glossary of terms being thrown about, it's sort of easy to understand why so many of us address you all incorrectly.

Didn't mean to rant 'n ramble, just thought I'd add my two cents.

[transjen]

Lets get somethings straight first off shemale is a term or label invented by the porn industry guess they figured it was classier to call em shemales instead of chicks with dicks

Now transsexual was a term/label invented by doctors to describe any person who is born one gender and wants to change to the other gender

Now then i've never liked the term shemale mostly due to the porn connection so i feel more at ease with the term transsexual plus add in that i've had SRS so there is nothing male about me so the term shemale doesn't even apply anylonger
Keep in mind this is just my personal take on the issue
Jerseygirl Jen

[DebkoX]

Originally Posted by smc

So, you're going to look our transsexual members in the eye and tell them that they are not that because they haven't yet had sexual reassignment surgery? I hope you're prepared to face the wrath you will so richly deserve!

I honestly apologise for that, I did not mean any offence.

[Kitten]

As long as someone treats me with dignity and respect, then it doesn't matter what word they use. I am what I am, a girl with a penis, and there are many different names for that. Just as long as you don't call me a guy!

If I am close to a person though, I would expect them to be a little more aware of appropriate and respectful language.

[mrblackalishous]

Thank you for a detailed answer to a question I have been pondering as I am considering going to a Transgender club and I dont want to offend anyboby by mistake and become a social pariah because of one mistake ...Thanx

[ladyboylover18]

Originally Posted by ThirdEyeGirl

I'm a non-op transsexual woman. Meaning I'm ALL woman, who happened to be born in a male body.
And the reasoning why I'm "non-op", is because I don't have a problem with my penis. The other reason is because I don't particularly like the idea of using surgery to manipulate what you were born with. I mean I'm barly considering FFS (Facial Feminization Surgery).
Now the reason why I hate to be refereed to as a 'shemale' or 'ladyboy'. Is because most people who use those terms (that I've encountered at least), think of transsexual women as just MEN who looks like women. Inferring that us ts girls think just like men do. When in fact we (transsexual women) never did. Even when we were ruled by testosterone.
Transsexual women are just that. Women! And we should always be treated as such.






Wendy is very accurate with her depiction of terms with in the transgender community.

But just to add another descriptor. Ladyboy is literally translated from the thai word kathoey. Witch in Thailand, is the way that they refer to trans women who have yet to have had SRS, or sexy change. And further more, the Thai people don't have a word for post-op transsexual women. They are now 100% women.

But just like Wendy has stated.

Good rule of thumb: let the person who are talking with self-identify and refer to them with the terminology they use.[/QUOTE]
So if you are not sure what you should call that person. Just ask them, and find out. [/QUOTE]
u have a good point

[JodieTs]

I think the Ts performer who gave the original poster shit,
is an idiot!
She objectifies her body as a sexual fantasy plaything.
Then bitches about the terminology which describes
the very same thing!
Oh, and it was her that used the term "Shemale", not the OP.
Lady has 'issues'

I call myself a shemale in escort and porn scenarios
as I objectify my body to earn Coin.

In sex work it's a job description, not a statement about the person, their validity or existence.

Outside work I'd be highly offended.
But as no one knows I'm Ts, that's not really likely....

Originally Posted by JodieTs

I think the Ts performer who gave the original poster shit,
is an idiot!
She objectifies her body as a sexual fantasy plaything.
Then bitches about the terminology which describes
the very same thing!
Oh, and it was her that used the term "Shemale", not the OP.
Lady has 'issues'

I call myself a shemale in escort and porn scenarios
as I objectify my body to earn Coin.

In sex work it's a job description, not a statement about the person, their validity or existence.

Outside work I'd be highly offended.
But as no one knows I'm Ts, that's not really likely....

It's highly possible that the ts performer did call herself a shemale, but it's not a guarantee. Cause I never refer to myself as one, ever. Even when I'm naked on cam.

Most people are acquainted with t-ladies through porn, where the vocable "shemale" is omnipresent. We don't know much about the particular situation we all refer to, here, and God only knows what exactly was said and what precisely happened. But if anyone uses indeed this word, he should receive full explanations on the topic. The OP is at least commendable in what he tried to get a bit more of infos. The word in itself is an ugly hybrid which brought anything but a woman to the imagination. If you want to make a buck, yeap, it's surely the best way to present yourself indeed, lady Jodie, as everybody in porn has to be intrigued by such a concept.
But as you both just said, ladies, i can't think of it as being innocent for anything else.