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Old 05-23-2010
rawr1313 rawr1313 is offline
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Default Straight dude with a t-girl friend needs advice

Long story but I'll keep it as short as I can. I hope I do not offend anyone with my ignorance, and I am truly sorry if I do.

I have a best friend, known him since kindergarten. Around 7th grade I figured out he liked dudes, I didn't care, he was my bro. Nothing changed really, except I ended up grilling all his boyfriends like I do for my sister. I protected him and treated him like I would a sibling.

In our early 20s now he's been making the transformation into a woman over the past 2 years. Long hair, womens clothes, breast implants, the whole deal pretty much. If I haven't known him forever I probably wouldn't even know he was born in a males body.

I've tried to be as supportive as possible being there for him for emotional support during the hormone therapy, and since we live in a place that isn't exactly tolerant of anyone who isn't "straight" I've always had his back when people give him hell for it.

When I found out he liked men, I didn't have any issue. I was glad he figured it out as early as he did, and he's had some very healthy long lasting relationships. My problem is I'm slightly weirded out now that he's a woman. I know it sounds like I'm a jerk, but I'm trying to be as open minded as possible.

Knowing him as a man for over a decade and seeing him as a woman in the physical sense (even though I guess he's always had the mind of a woman) is just hard for a simple man like myself to get used to. Sometimes he gets flirty with me like one of my girlfriends would and I know he's messin but I have a hard time not seeing him as the guy I grew up with. Sometimes I feel because of my inability to cope I'm not being the best buddy I can be for him/her and I feel like a terrible person for it.

I was referred to this board by a friend of his and I'm hoping some you guys who are more educated in such things can give me a little advice on how to be a better friend and not be so uptight.

Again if any of my close-mindedness offended you I apologize in advance. Also sorry for the ridiculous wall of text.
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Old 05-23-2010
franalexes franalexes is offline
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I think you are totally normal. It is because of the former closeness that you can't handle it. Not all people get along good with their siblings. (self included) But you don't have to be enemys either.
Go your separate ways, but stay in touch. Time will heal. Be nice.

Last edited by franalexes; 05-23-2010 at 07:45 AM.
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Old 05-23-2010
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Gor Gar Gor Gar is offline
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Cool Hope this helps

I'm not a professional giver of advice by any means, but the first thing I personally think you need to concentrate on is not kicking yourself for these "weirded out" feelings you sometimes get. You're perfectly entitled to feel however it is you find yourself feeling at times...it's how you act on these feelings that wind up making them good or bad. You're not "uptight" or anything, at least not in my opinion. You've simply had X amount of years with your friend in one phase, so now that your friend has entered another phase you're sort of going through a phase of acclimation yourself...that is, it's going to take some time to get used to...for him and for you. As long as neither of you are hateful or spiteful toward one another in all of this then chalk up these feelings for what they are; a time of adjustment.

Also keep in mind that not only are you going to have to work on how you behave toward your friend while going through these conflicting feelings, but your friend is going to have to watch his/her behavior as well. Sure, you're a friend and you've always been there, but that doesn't automatically give your buddy the right or whatever to make you uncomfortable. If the joking/flirtation makes you uneasy, you have to let him/her know...they're no more a mind reader than you are. Like most situations in life, this is a matter of give and take...you meet them halfway, and then they should, if they truly care, work with you.

I went through a very similar situation with a cousin...he and I were practically brothers growing up, and I found out years before the rest of the family did that he felt like a woman in a man's body. I was as cool and accepting as I could be (and he has since thanked me for it, so I'm not tooting my own horn here), but I had to make him understand that I didn't want to hear about things like his encounters with other guys or how many times he got off or all of the details on all of his outfits that he'd spend all of his money on...I had just as much right to feeling comfortable as he did, so I had to have a few heart-to-heart discussions with him before it was all said and done. Of course now he's out of state, hooked up with some guy, living his own life and we rarely if ever talk anymore, but life is loaded with changes. Your friendship with your buddy may very well come to an end...that's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just a change that you'll both have to roll with as easily as possible.

So in a nutshell, keep on being cool, help them to keep on being cool toward you, and just see how the chips fall. But you sound fine to me...nothing to worry a whole lot about, and your coming onto this board to ask for advice shows how genuinely concerned and caring you are. Some people would kill to have a friend like you.
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Old 05-23-2010
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He wants to be a woman, he looks like a woman, and he's serious enough about this that he's on hormones and got a boob job. The only reason you think of him as a man is because you grew up knowing him as a man.

You're not uptight. It's just a hard thing to deal with. Being gay is much more normal (and therefore understandable), and when someone comes out as gay you can usually look back at his life and say, "Yeah, that makes sense." But being transgendered is confusing.

Seeing someone out of nowhere decide they want to be a woman makes most people think the person is pretty much insane. It's harder to look back at the person's life and make sense of it. If you had two transgendered friends -- one you met before the transition and one you met after -- you would obviously have much less trouble relating to the one you always knew as a woman.

Remember this is the same person. She's still your friend. She still has the same personality. Maybe she acts differently than she did as a guy, but that is just because before she felt forced to express herself in accordance to culturally-imposed conventions of what is expected from a male, and now she's found the strength to defy all that and be who she wants to be.

The thing that probably bothers you the most is that you're thinking, "If this person is sane, why the hell did it take him over 20 years to figure out he wanted to be a woman?" I'll try to answer that by giving you a summary of my life, since it's similar to a lot of T-girls I've met around America.

I started getting into my mom's makeup and stuff when I was 3. My dad also beat me pretty well for it, so before I even started kindergarten I knew that I needed to keep my feelings to myself. I prayed every night to wake up as a girl the next day until I was 12. Then I started having sexual feelings, and I figured the whole gender confusion just meant I was a pervert. Our culture doesn't portray people with gender issues in a good light -- they're either seen as a plot element of stupid comedies (Mrs. Doubtfire, Big Momma's House, Medea, whatever) or they're seen as psychos, perverts, or both (Dressed to Kill, Silence of the Lambs). I tried for a long time to convince myself I was a gay guy. I got picked on in school, and eventually started overcompensating and working out all the time. I usually had long hair, but a few times I decided I was ridiculous and shaved my head (one time I actually poured Nair on my head). I was in therapy on and off, but I usually didn't even want to talk about my real problems. I tried to kill myself with pills and alcohol a couple times. But I was single and very isolated and most of my friends thought I was a nice guy and fun to be around. They never really noticed my problems.

When I transitioned I lost 95% of my friends. Not because they were bad people, but just because they didn't understand it and to them it was basically the death of the guy they liked. Oh well.

Dealing with my feelings was very stressful, and it was a lot easier to ignore them (although that didn't work very well). Transitioning itself is very stressful, too. It all made me a little crazy, so it's totally understandable that the outside observer would just think I'd lost my mind. Maybe I had. It's a chicken-or-the-egg thing. Am I unstable because I'm transsexual, or am I transsexual because I'm unstable? Who knows.
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  #5  
Old 05-23-2010
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There is already some great advice in this thread, but to reiterate, you sound like a normal guy to me and I'm sure your feelings are justified. I understand how it can be a tough thing to cope with, and I've seen many similar stories along the lines of families dealing with siblings or children who are MTF or FTM transsexuals. I think the fact that you have stood by your friend despite any discomfort you have experienced is a testament to the fact that you are a good person.

It's obviously not easy to just erase your past perceptions of your friend and completely see her as a woman. Just keep reminding yourself that one's sex is in the mind, not necessarily the body. If her joke flirting makes you uncomfortable, then just let her know. I know it's tough but you should try to find other close people to talk with - it just might not be a good idea to let your friend know that you're having a hard time accepting the transition because it's likely really hard on her too.

Just remember that you have one life to live, and whatever other people think of you, your sexuality, or your friend's is of absolutely no importance.
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Old 05-23-2010
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I'm really not bothered that she now looks like a woman and in no way do I think she's insane. She's actually very pretty. She's going through a hell of a time right now, only recently came out to her parents, and after going through the physical transition, most of the men including her father have pretty much cut all contact with her.

I really don't care what other people think. We currently live together and a few neighbors know who she is because their children went to school with us, and I've had words with them a few times about being respectful towards others. Girlfriends I've had that have an issue with my best friend being a t-girl get dumped pretty fast because she's my best friend and I don't intend for that to change and I don't intend to hide her either.

I guess to chalk it all down is there's been a recent tension in our friendship because I still act like she's one of the guys when we hang out. On weekends I usually have a bunch of people over, we have a few drinks and watch some movies, and shoot the shit. I have a ridiculously large couch that turns into a giant bed and we usually all crash on it and hang out for the weekend.

Now as a Massage Therapist most of my work friends are female, and so aren't almost all my best friends. Really the only guys who show up are her boyfriend who sometimes is too busy to come, or some of her guy friends. When we were all hanging out a couple weeks ago she cuddled up next to me like some of the other girls do and well it kinda went like this.

Brain - Hey... thats a guy man. Akward...
Heart - Who gives a crap, that's your best friend. You'd take a bullet for her just give her some comfort you jackass.

Basically I just dealt with being uncomfortable because I honestly would have felt worse offending her by pushing her away. Especially with the emotional time shes been through and her boyfriend wasn't there for her that night.

Then the event that eventually brought me here. Was eating some cheerios the other morning and she came up and asked me if she should keep her cock or not. Now we've always been open with each other growin up, and very little is kept from either of us. But when she asked me this I looked at her with a "Dur?" like expression because I honestly did not know how to respond and I do believe she was disappointed that her best friend couldn't give her any advice.

I've looked through these boards and I see there's quite a few frequent posters around that actually do know, or are M2F women, and I guess I'm just wondering how to proceed. I don't want a great friendship to end over something like this, but I'm afraid if I tell her about me being uncomfortable with my inability to cope she might feel like the only guy in her life who's stuck by her through it all is leaving or something. I don't intend to though, but as you can see I'm a simple guy and not much thought process goes on between my 2 ears. Expressing myself is not my strong suit.

TYVM for the advice so far it really helps.

Last edited by rawr1313; 05-23-2010 at 05:51 PM.
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  #7  
Old 05-23-2010
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Your best friend needs you to be there for her right now as her best friend. Don't let her down now and keep on supporting her in the way you have been. SRS is going to be something that you won't be able to give advice on. That is something that your friend is going to have to figure out for herself. Talk to her about it when she does want to talk about it. She may be just asking your opinion and not for advice. There are so many possibilities for why she broached the subject with you. I really think that your friend should talk to other women that have had SRS. I'm sure that she will get a better perspective from them. She should also talk to other women that do not want to get SRS to get another viewpoint.
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Old 05-23-2010
noble1337 noble1337 is offline
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you can always be a best friend to her, but the fact that she's not guy anymore will change the chemistry. dont avoid that fact, accept it. Hang outs are gonna be a lot different from here on out. not worse, just different.
but you know more about this subject than i do though haha...
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Old 05-23-2010
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It sounds like you're being about as good a friend as you possibly can. Feel free to be honest that she's making you uncomfortable. If one of your other female friends was just a good friend to you and you didn't see any possibility of a relationship with her, you would be a little uncomfortable with her flirting with you and trying to cuddle up with you. And no matter what your relationship status, it's pretty inappropriate for a woman to come to a man and start asking his opinion about her crotch.

I think she's more confused by your relationship than you are. You're friends, and she's going to ruin that friendship if she behaves in some bizarre sexual manner around you.

If she's only recently started taking hormones, though, she's going to be a little flaky. It's like all your emotions are amplified and you can experience levels of attachment, loneliness and resentment that you never had before. It can be overwhelming.

Like Ila said, it would help her to find other trans women to talk to about stuff and not harrass her best friend with uncomfortable questions about her cock. I mean, OMFG.
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  #10  
Old 05-24-2010
rawr1313 rawr1313 is offline
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Ila is right, I used the wrong word. She isn't asking my advice but my opinion. I'm just not prepared for this type of thing. I know diddly squat about what it's like to be a "woman trapped in a mans body" or what it's like to go through a physical change like this. I've seen some crazy stuff in my life, and I'm not grossed out about questions about genitalia, but a question like that caught me totally off guard and I have no experience to even try to give an opinion based on anything.

I've spent a couple months reading a lot of the boards before I decided to post, in an attempt to get an idea of what my friend is going through and how to help her settle into her life. I knew it would be difficult for her explaining to her family and then going through with a fair amount of surgery and hormone therapy, I was just not expecting the friendship and the chemistry to change.

When we were just 2 kids I always knew what he was thinkin. As we got older I realized pretty quick he was very feminine and was like a girl, but our friendship was always the same as any 2 guys. Now after it all, she wants to be a girl and just a girl. Not someone who went M2F, just a girl. I think sometimes she wants to just pretend everything before the surgery and the hormones never happened and if that's the case I can understand that.

I try my best but sometimes I slip when I'm just hangin out and not thinkin. She gets angry when I call her by her birth name for example. I don't mean to, but it's difficult when you call someone by a name for 14 years and then they have a different name. It's like come january 1st and you accidentally write 2009 on the check book. Force of habit.

She wants to be treated like a girl, because she feels that she is and has always been one and I feel like since I'm the person who's in her life the most, it's my job to secure that. I feel like I'm failing at it. Moments like the ones mentioned, happen a lot and I hide my discomfort in the hopes I'll just get over it.

I don't plan on bailing on her though, and I'll do whatever I can to not let her down because I know she needs me. I was just looking for some insight to others who may have been in my position, or have been in her position making a transition and seeing how the people around them respond to it.

I just wanted an outside opinion from others like her or myself on whether or not I am being a bad friend or not. It bothers me a lot when I feel uncomfortable around the one person on the planet I trust and care for more than anyone else.

Thank you for the insight and awesome feedback, and here is to me figuring this all out...
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  #11  
Old 05-24-2010
WudLuv2try WudLuv2try is offline
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Your friend... she's lucky to have a friend like you.

Do you feel sexually attracted to her?
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Old 05-24-2010
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if youve read any of what he wrote, youll know that hes not.

stop tryin to make somethin out of it...
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Old 05-24-2010
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No doubt some honesty will serve you well , if you need some space ,just say so and keep in contact in a way that suits you both , occasional coffee/email ??
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Old 05-24-2010
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It seems like you are being a fine friend, and there is little you really need to figure out. Your friend is changing, yet remaining exactly the same.

From my experience, the friends who remained with me through my transition are given lots of room to "mess up". They knew me with a different name, a different body, and in some ways a different life. The challenge for me was integrating the past and the lies and even the shame with who I was and who was becoming.

For my friends, this was sometimes hard and often confusing. It didn't help that for the first couple years I was a total wreck as my body adjusted to the hormones and I began to be solidly treated as a women (not as much fun all the time as one may suspect). They related to me as "a buddy" sharing the things that buds share, even if they understood me to be a gay guy, I was still a pal. Finding that balance was hard for them.

Guys relate to each other differently than they do to women. You and your friend will just need to figure out how (if at all) your friendship will change. There is not correct answer, except the one you both decide. The one that allows you to be close and share things with the other.

You can look at it has having the actual "best of both worlds". You have a friend who "gets you" as a guy, but also understands you though the eyes of a woman. What safer way to find out if you putting out the wrong messages to potential dates?
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Old 05-25-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rawr1313 View Post
She gets angry when I call her by her birth name for example. I don't mean to, but it's difficult when you call someone by a name for 14 years and then they have a different name. It's like come january 1st and you accidentally write 2009 on the check book. Force of habit.
Insecurity. So don't sweat it.
We are all like that at the start
Just a quiet "sorry" should do, till she is comfortable,
at which point she will smirk when you do that
& insist you address her, with her birth name for the rest of the day! ....if she is anything like me...

Oh, you are being a brill friend; keep doing what you are doing.

Misha. xxx
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