"Real Girls"

[Bionca]

I'm really not fond of non-trans women being called "real" girls, or for that matter trans women being referred to in the feminine with quotes around the pronouns - Like:

I really had a good time with a hot "girl" from the local tranny bar. "She" was pretty and looked like a real girl until "she" got naked.

Aside from the obvious trivializing of my identity and the stuff I had to go through and endure; it's dangerous. Seriously dangerous - Angie Zapata's murderer told the cops "I had to hit it" - Angie wasn't a woman..she wasn't even a person. To a lesser degree, I have been with at least 5 guys who at some post let me know that they were done with me because they liked "real girls". One of them minutes after he talked me (begged is probably a better term) into giving it up for him. I was in bed when he got that stupid awkward look on his face and said "wow you were really hot - but I like the real thing".

I could point out the purely physical stuff and say that they are "feminine" or "womanly" - but really, I was as much a woman before I ever laid eyes on hormones or a skirt or some eyeliner so that whole "femininity" thing doesn't really prove anything - I'd be a chick if I stopped shaving my legs and wore a suit - it's who I am not what I'm wearing.

I think the part that stinks for me (and probably most Trans* folks) is me transitioning was me being 100% authentic - ultimately honest with myself and the world. When that honesty is called dishonest it hurts.

[jimnaseum]

Jeez, Bionca, real + $5.00 = $5.00

When it comes to sex, all men are pigs, every "real" woman knows that. If you go to the trans bar I guarantee you can get fucked every night. You need to find a guy you really like. If it's real it's real. Even Librarians have sex.

You have a really good head on your shoulders but you're like a broken record with this Mr. Wrong mantra. Maybe you think you deserve more than the regular person sexually because of all the crap you've been through. Make peace with your parents and find the guy thats looking for a girl like you
-Jim Landers

[transjen]

Happend to me awhile ago, A guy i met beat the crap outta me when he found out i wasn't a "real girl" When i tried to report it i got a rude awaking from the "real cop" when he found out i was transgendered he said it was my fault for teasing the poor guy and he had every right to smack me around and he hoped i learned my lesson and refused to file a report, Jennifer

[FoxySarah]

Originally Posted by transjen

Happend to me awhile ago, A guy i met beat the crap outta me when he found out i wasn't a "real girl" When i tried to report it i got a rude awaking from the "real cop" when he found out i was transgendered he said it was my fault for teasing the poor guy and he had every right to smack me around and he hoped i learned my lesson and refused to file a report, Jennifer

I am so glad I live in a country tolerant enough that the Law Enforcement actually upholds the law equally for everyone.

[racquel]

Originally Posted by FoxySarah

I am so glad I live in a country tolerant enough that the Law Enforcement actually upholds the law equally for everyone.

Yeah, Canada's such a utopia!

Last time I was in Windsor, Canada, it made Detroit look like a tolerant place.

Seriously, cops are all assholes. The only cop I've ever met who's actually a nice guy is my probation officer, but he's a retired cop ... I think he's just trying to make up for having been an asshole in the 90's.

A cop refusing the file a police report for you? That's nothing. Last time I got arrested he did file a report, and it was totally full of lies.

[FoxySarah]

Originally Posted by racquel

Yeah, Canada's such a utopia!

Last time I was in Windsor, Canada, it made Detroit look like a tolerant place.

Seriously, cops are all assholes. The only cop I've ever met who's actually a nice guy is my probation officer, but he's a retired cop ... I think he's just trying to make up for having been an asshole in the 90's.

A cop refusing the file a police report for you? That's nothing. Last time I got arrested he did file a report, and it was totally full of lies.

Oh yes, of course, how could I forget. Every cop is an asshole. No exceptions. Silly me.

As for Windsor, I would say that's because they have thier own police force. In Canada, there are city cops, which only have jurisdiction in their own city limits, and there are the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) Which have jurisdiction anywhere that's Canadian soil. In my experiance, city police tend to have more assholes on their payroll, and the RCMP tend to be more tolerant. Either way though, I've never had any real difficulties with the police. Canada really is quite tolerant. We're one of the few countries that allow same-sex marriage, and the Canadian Forces medical plan will pay for SRS for soldiers that wish to transition. Seriously, you can't get much more tolerant than that!

[fatbloke]

Originally Posted by transjen

Happend to me awhile ago, A guy i met beat the crap outta me when he found out i wasn't a "real girl" When i tried to report it i got a rude awaking from the "real cop" when he found out i was transgendered he said it was my fault for teasing the poor guy and he had every right to smack me around and he hoped i learned my lesson and refused to file a report, Jennifer

I'm so sorry to hear that Jen,it is a really sad inditement on todays socierty.It's the 21st century and attitudes are still the same as they have been for 1000's of years,regarding race,gender whatever,the human race is still a bunch of small minded,self serving bunch of c****.
I wish there was something positive that i could say,but folks is folks,they are not going to change.
Next time rip the bastards nuts off and dispose of the body,you would be better off.
Take care,ony

[BigToy4Asia]

Wow, Bionca - thanks for speaking out. Your words really had an impact on me. I believe I truly understand what you mean and how you feel. You make so much sense - I really hope you have challenged all of us on here.

Thank you.

[BigToy4Asia]

TransJen, how insecure was that creep??!! How utterly pathetic he should think he was better than you by beating the crap out of you.
Makes me feel sick to the stomach!
A pathetic, losing creep who is too weak to face up to his feelings.

As for the police, my God... We have along way to go in this world..

[Amy]

Originally Posted by fatbloke

It's the 21st century and attitudes are still the same as they have been for 1000's of years,regarding race,gender whatever,the human race is still a bunch of small minded,self serving bunch of c****.

Th sad thing is, this is a fairly recent development within the last couple of thousand years in most of the west, prior to that we often had a recognised and respected place in many cultures. In some further east that christianity had less of an effect on, we still do.

[orion]

Hi Amy ..

That's very true .. in fact I was thinking only last night about the special place held by Transgendered people in Native American culture (remember the film "A Man called Horse") ??

Certainly within the Sioux Nation & I believe to an extent within the Cheyenne people .. the Transgendered were accorded special status ..

The subsequent "Western" persecution of the Transgendereed & Gay communities can be laid firmly at the door of the Church ... though in reality they have little to gripe about ..

One of their most revered Saints (Joan of Arc) was probably Transgendered .. or if not, then certainly was "XYY" chromosome afflicted ...

Surely, in 2009 the world is a big enough place for us all to co-exist .. if not exactly in "peace" then at least in tolerance ?????

Bye for now,

Orion ..

[twistedone]

I would have filed a report anyways, against the cop. Then raised holy hell with the press and anyone else I could to embarrass the cop and the police force. There is absolutely NO justification for anyone to beat the crap out of anyone. PERIOD!!

Originally Posted by transjen

Happend to me awhile ago, A guy i met beat the crap outta me when he found out i wasn't a "real girl" When i tried to report it i got a rude awaking from the "real cop" when he found out i was transgendered he said it was my fault for teasing the poor guy and he had every right to smack me around and he hoped i learned my lesson and refused to file a report, Jennifer

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by transjen

Happend to me awhile ago, A guy i met beat the crap outta me when he found out i wasn't a "real girl" When i tried to report it i got a rude awaking from the "real cop" when he found out i was transgendered he said it was my fault for teasing the poor guy and he had every right to smack me around and he hoped i learned my lesson and refused to file a report, Jennifer

This is exactly what I was trying to bring up. The idea that we are either not "real"/valid women or our intention is one of deception fuels so much emotional and physical distress and even abuse for us. Unfortunaely, so much of the sex industry that makes money off of Trans* bodies uses this same language and imagery. I don't expect porn to be anything more than a means to make money... on the other hand, are amputee fetish sites billed as "hot gimp action"? or is the tag line "He thought she had a leg until the pants came off. - Crip Deception at it's finest."

It isn't so much that guys dump me for chicks that cane give them babies, it's that these guys feel they are justified to deny my identity and/or feel like my honesty is actually deception (always after I've given up the goods).

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by Bionca

This is exactly what I was trying to bring up. The idea that we are either not "real"/valid women or our intention is one of deception fuels so much emotional and physical distress and even abuse for us.
It's that these guys feel they are justified to deny my identity and/or feel like my honesty is actually deception (always after I've given up the goods).

BIONCA:

Jen is a peach, but she has unintentionally left out from her first telling that she was making-out w/ the guy, and accepted going to his place. Drinking may have been involved. When they continued in private, he finally went into her panties, and things changed when he found a sausage and not a donut.

I agree that she should have been able to file a complaint, BTW.

Care to add a sentence or two w/ this wrinkle involved?


Piece,


TAL

[transjen]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

BIONCA:

Jen is a peach, but she has unintentionally left out from her first telling that she was making-out w/ the guy, and accepted going to his place. Drinking may have been involved. When they continued in private, he finally went into her panties, and things changed when he found a sausage and not a donut.

I agree that she should have been able to file a complaint, BTW.

Care to add a sentence or two w/ this wrinkle involved?


Piece,


TAL

Here we go i met the guy at a pool hall that my friends and i stoped at to play pool, The guy took a liking to me and we started chatting he smeaned very nice and wanted to shoot a game with me and i agreed, My friend who drove me there had to leave so i said ok, The guy then offered to drive me home if i wanted to stay longer and i aggreed to finish the game, We left the pool hall got in his car and he asked where i lived and asked if i minded if he stops by his place first because he had something to attend to, So we stoped at his place and he invited me in we sat down and talked some more then he kissed me and started feeling me up I started backing off then and he got on top of me and that's when his hand reached into my panties and all hell broke loose he started smacking me and calling me a GD FAIT , I kneed him in his sack then made a run for it and ran to a 7-ELEVEN where i called the cops, When he got there i told him what happend and he then asked why the guy called me a fait when i told him everything changed he nolonger cared what happend to me. Now a few people said i should have went to the police chief and the papers, I decided against for two reasons if i filed a complaimt agianst the cop i would have then been a big target for every cop in the area and going to the papers whould have told the world i'm transgendered at the time i was 22 years old and was only living full time for 4 months so i just learned a big leason and moved on with my life Jennifer

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

BIONCA:

Jen is a peach, but she has unintentionally left out from her first telling that she was making-out w/ the guy, and accepted going to his place. Drinking may have been involved. When they continued in private, he finally went into her panties, and things changed when he found a sausage and not a donut.

I agree that she should have been able to file a complaint, BTW.

Care to add a sentence or two w/ this wrinkle involved?


Piece,


TAL

Pretending that I hadn't read Jen's reply above - no I wouldn't have added anything. The reason for the assult was the same - she was perceived by her attacker as not being a "real" woman at best, an intentional deceiver at worst. The reaction of the cop implying that he assumed she was being deceptive, thus bringing the violence on herself. This line of reasoning is caled the "gay/trans panic" defence and is quite popular because it works to get men (who have often had continued relations with trans*women) off the hook or reduced sentences for violence/murder of trans*women and gay men (see Angie Zapata and Matthew Shepherd).

I know you aren't tryng to say that violence is justified, but so often people - even other trans*folks will assume that a gal wasn't being honest about her status, denounce the violence, then say she kinda had it comming anyway. I wonder what the public's reaction would be if women started beating the snot out of men who lied about their cock size...

[new believer]

Originally Posted by Bionca

This is exactly what I was trying to bring up. The idea that we are either not "real"/valid women or our intention is one of deception fuels so much emotional and physical distress and even abuse for us. Unfortunaely, so much of the sex industry that makes money off of Trans* bodies uses this same language and imagery. I don't expect porn to be anything more than a means to make money... on the other hand, are amputee fetish sites billed as "hot gimp action"? or is the tag line "He thought she had a leg until the pants came off. - Crip Deception at it's finest."

It isn't so much that guys dump me for chicks that cane give them babies, it's that these guys feel they are justified to deny my identity and/or feel like my honesty is actually deception (always after I've given up the goods).

1st, why do you hate being braver than the guys you date? It will be your bravery that will change the world.
Sorry about your being beaten up, been there. Only I was beaten up by five guys who did not like the attention I got from their girlfriends. I was new to the area,had long hair and enjoyed being 'cool'. No I wasn't gay nor was I a fem-boy. Just different. That that out of the way, and forgive my ignorance, But what 'title(s)' do shemales give to 1)natural born women, 2)the 'straight' community/world, & 3)....sorry, lost my train of thought. I do that at times because I think faster than I type. Anyway, people are either assholes or not. Don't ever let the world beat you down. The strength shemales display shows through everyday by merely keeping on. The conviction shown through the operations, doing the everyday chores in public, helping others with their problems while still living with your own, shows lessons the rest of the world should learn. Those,my dear lady, are only a few of the reasons why I am a new admirer to your 'world'. NB

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by new believer

1st, why do you hate being braver than the guys you date? It will be your bravery that will change the world.
Sorry about your being beaten up, been there. Only I was beaten up by five guys who did not like the attention I got from their girlfriends. I was new to the area,had long hair and enjoyed being 'cool'. No I wasn't gay nor was I a fem-boy. Just different. That that out of the way, and forgive my ignorance, But what 'title(s)' do shemales give to 1)natural born women, 2)the 'straight' community/world, & 3)....sorry, lost my train of thought. I do that at times because I think faster than I type. Anyway, people are either assholes or not. Don't ever let the world beat you down. The strength shemales display shows through everyday by merely keeping on. The conviction shown through the operations, doing the everyday chores in public, helping others with their problems while still living with your own, shows lessons the rest of the world should learn. Those,my dear lady, are only a few of the reasons why I am a new admirer to your 'world'. NB

I hate being braver than the guys date because *I* get to catch crap while they are hidden from view. I'm daling with being trans all day every day, the guys seem to bail at the first hint that their friends may suspect (for example). You do bring up a few good questions...

1) if a distinction needs to be made cis (non-trans) is good, "GG" for Genetic Girl works, I personally like "Natal Women".
2) "the strait world" works. Alsom lots of trans women go "stealth" and just live in the "strait world" as women, so "home" would also work.

I don't like seeming like I'm constantly down on you guys. When you take the time time to try to "get it", you become special and wonderful. So many of the guys who post here have/are at least trying to "get it" and I don't think I express anough how much I appreciate that. I wouldn't still be posting here if it wasn't the case.

[ila]

Originally Posted by transjen

Happend to me awhile ago, A guy i met beat the crap outta me when he found out i wasn't a "real girl" When i tried to report it i got a rude awaking from the "real cop" when he found out i was transgendered he said it was my fault for teasing the poor guy and he had every right to smack me around and he hoped i learned my lesson and refused to file a report, Jennifer

Originally Posted by Talvenada

Jen is a peach, but she has unintentionally left out from her first telling that she was making-out w/ the guy, and accepted going to his place. Drinking may have been involved. When they continued in private, he finally went into her panties, and things changed when he found a sausage and not a donut.

I agree that she should have been able to file a complaint, BTW.

Care to add a sentence or two w/ this wrinkle involved?

The guy may have been disappointed or even downright pissed off, however that is no reason to smack around anyone. Assault is still assault and as far as I know it is illegal to assault anyone in the U.S.

The police are there to take action against criminal acts and in Jen's case the cop should have taken action. If the cop took no action then he should have been charged under the applicable law for not doing his duty. All persons are equal under the law so it should not matter who the parties are that are involved. Police are not judges so they have no right to decide who will be afforded protection under the law.

[tslust]

Originally Posted by transjen

Happend to me awhile ago, A guy i met beat the crap outta me when he found out i wasn't a "real girl" When i tried to report it i got a rude awaking from the "real cop" when he found out i was transgendered he said it was my fault for teasing the poor guy and he had every right to smack me around and he hoped i learned my lesson and refused to file a report, Jennifer

The same thing happened to me several years back. He probably would've beaten me to death if his neighbor hadn't come out to see what all the noise was.

Originally Posted by racquel

Seriously, cops are all assholes.

I couldn't agree more.

Originally Posted by Talvenada

BIONCA:

Jen is a peach, but she has unintentionally left out from her first telling that she was making-out w/ the guy, and accepted going to his place. Drinking may have been involved. When they continued in private, he finally went into her panties, and things changed when he found a sausage and not a donut.

I agree that she should have been able to file a complaint, BTW.

Care to add a sentence or two w/ this wrinkle involved?


Piece,


TAL

Oh, so just because he was dissapointed that gives him every right to beat her. Seriously, if a guy is dissapointed with his date (whether TG or GG) after he takes her home; he should simply escort her to the door, not beat her senseless.

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by tslust

Oh, so just because he was dissapointed that gives him every right to beat her. Seriously, if a guy is dissapointed with his date (whether TG or GG) after he takes her home; he should simply escort her to the door, not beat her senseless.

I did not say he had the right to beat up anybody.

I made no comment on it at all.

I left that open for Bianca to comment.

I don't believe anyone has the right to beat up anyone else for most reasons. To clarify, there are exceptions, like if your life is threatened and you have no other choice.

Please, both of you, ask B4 jumping to conclusions.


Piece,


TAL

[mikelovesweed89]

Originally Posted by transjen

Happend to me awhile ago, A guy i met beat the crap outta me when he found out i wasn't a "real girl" When i tried to report it i got a rude awaking from the "real cop" when he found out i was transgendered he said it was my fault for teasing the poor guy and he had every right to smack me around and he hoped i learned my lesson and refused to file a report, Jennifer

thats messed up but don't worry he'll get his. paybacks a bitch

[Hui!]

Originally Posted by transjen

Happend to me awhile ago, A guy i met beat the crap outta me when he found out i wasn't a "real girl" When i tried to report it i got a rude awaking from the "real cop" when he found out i was transgendered he said it was my fault for teasing the poor guy and he had every right to smack me around and he hoped i learned my lesson and refused to file a report, Jennifer

First time I was with a shemale (about 15 yrs ago), it was a blind date surprise kind of thing. Went to dinner, went dancing, drinks, coffee and ice cream after. Get to her place and she turned the lights off, wouldn't take off the panties, no touchie me there. Came to the realization when she wouldn't let me touch her what would have been vagina. So, I just played along and fucked her anyways. Didn't bother me a bit. Looking back though, she should have been upfront with me. We both would have had better sex.

Next day my Dad asked how the "big" date went. (He watched me get ready) I told him the truth about the TGirl. He asked, "so what did you do when you found out?" I told him I shot my load in her ass. He laughed long and hard out loud and asked two questions: "how was it", and "did you wear a condom?" He was a good dad.

[caderevjak]

that cop and jerk need a little lesson in manners

Jennifer I'm sorry for what happened to you. Any man that hits a women is not a man. Besides you are so beautiful inside and out. I agree this world has a long way to go.
XOXOX respect

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by jimnaseum

Jeez, Bionca, real + $5.00 = $5.00

When it comes to sex, all men are pigs, every "real" woman knows that. If you go to the trans bar I guarantee you can get fucked every night. You need to find a guy you really like. If it's real it's real. Even Librarians have sex.

You have a really good head on your shoulders but you're like a broken record with this Mr. Wrong mantra. Maybe you think you deserve more than the regular person sexually because of all the crap you've been through. Make peace with your parents and find the guy thats looking for a girl like you
-Jim Landers

It's a forum Jim. A place to rant and rave. The broken record crack sounds hurtful. As do the next 2 lines.

[jimnaseum]

Hurtful? This is High School 101.
EVERY GIRL IS GOING TO BE JUDGED
In High School, there was one #1 girl. Prom Queen, Homecoming Princess.
Great breeding, genes. The perfect wife and mother. She would go on to marry the quarterback or Mayor's son and never let him down.
And then there's #6, #25, #268. This is how guys think from prehistoric times. Being a woman is no picnic.
As far as cops go, they peel people off windshields in horrible traffic accidents, that's why they don't like speeders and drunks. They also go to very painful domestic violence incidents with children screwed for life because of idiot parents. All cops are big on FAMILY.
No disrespect for Bionca. I probably misunderstood her post anyway.

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by jimnaseum

Hurtful? This is High School 101.
EVERY GIRL IS GOING TO BE JUDGED
In High School, there was one #1 girl. Prom Queen, Homecoming Princess.
Great breeding, genes. The perfect wife and mother. She would go on to marry the quarterback or Mayor's son and never let him down.
And then there's #6, #25, #268. This is how guys think from prehistoric times. Being a woman is no picnic.
As far as cops go, they peel people off windshields in horrible traffic accidents, that's why they don't like speeders and drunks. They also go to very painful domestic violence incidents with children screwed for life because of idiot parents. All cops are big on FAMILY.
No disrespect for Bionca. I probably misunderstood her post anyway.

<-----This is what Bianca needs

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by jimnaseum

Make peace with your parents and find the guy thats looking for a girl like you
-Jim Landers

Well, the parents are a no-go. Once I grew some boobs they made it very clear they didn't want a daughter and haven't returned any attempts to communicate. I'm living SECRETLY with my brother because he's afraid that they will freak out on him too and (for whatever reason) wants to have active grandparents for his kid. Last I heard they didn't even have any pictures of me on the wall in the house *shrug*

Also, I only look for guys looking for gals like me. I have no desire to have that type of conversation with someone - one of the reasons I still only go dancing at gay clubs, won't date guys from work, give guys who ask a fake phone number ... I have no reason to trust that some random dude who hits on me isn't going to freak out (even if he says he doesn't care).

[jimnaseum]

I'm not a woman in a man's body, but a couple years ago I did find out I have a malfunctioning pitutitary gland, which kind of puts me in the soup.
As kids, we had a pact not to let our parents know anything that would lead to doctors or drama.
I still don't understand why guys looking for girls like you would be dismissive or whatever with you, even after they've shot their load. What's not to like?
I really do appreciate your patience and understanding, I'm sure you have all the problems that life comes with as well as a few more. Some of my favorite weekends have gotten me beaten up, confused, broke, and very very tired.
Hope this Kwissmuss finds everyone a little closer to God, wherever that is......

[DL_NL]

I've often noticed that guys here- and on other internet forums as well- don't seem to care about how they treat t-girls. They're no more than objects of desire to them, why bother treating them as humans with feelings? That really annoys me.

As for Transjen: do you live in the US? If so, geez... there's a lot of work left to get your country out of the sexual Dark Ages. And judging by some people's responses I doubt if it'll ever happen.

[fatbloke]

There is one thing i have noticed while being on this site,most of the guys who post here are just here for the fact that thy like to get off over shemales,for want of a better word,there seems to be no respect,just complete lust.

[transjen]

Originally Posted by DL_NL

As for Transjen: do you live in the US? If so, geez... there's a lot of work left to get your country out of the sexual Dark Ages. And judging by some people's responses I doubt if it'll ever happen.

Yes i do, But i do want to point this out it doesn't matter where you live this stuff happens to T-girls all over the world not just in the US, Please note i'm not putting down any country or state i'm just stating a fact, Yes in some place we are treated and accepted a lot better then in other places but no matter where you go you find a certen kinda of mentality that wants us locked away out of site out of mind because we don't fit in there way the world is supposed to be according to them, Neil Young said it very well" i don't feel like satan but i am to them" Jennifer

[randolph]

Originally Posted by Bionca

Well, the parents are a no-go. Once I grew some boobs they made it very clear they didn't want a daughter and haven't returned any attempts to communicate. I'm living SECRETLY with my brother because he's afraid that they will freak out on him too and (for whatever reason) wants to have active grandparents for his kid. Last I heard they didn't even have any pictures of me on the wall in the house *shrug*

Also, I only look for guys looking for gals like me. I have no desire to have that type of conversation with someone - one of the reasons I still only go dancing at gay clubs, won't date guys from work, give guys who ask a fake phone number ... I have no reason to trust that some random dude who hits on me isn't going to freak out (even if he says he doesn't care).

Dear Bionca,
I really appreciate your comments and the comments by Fran and other Tgirls. I must admit I joined this forum to look at shemale images and feel horney. I imagined that transexuals were somehow more sexually endowed than genetic women. I had no idea that transitioning was so difficult and even dangerous, in addition to the loss of family support. I am sure you have heard the old story that when God created man he didn't provide enough blood to run the brain and penis at the same time.
I hope you will soon find the love you deserve.
Take care.

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by randolph

Dear Bionca,
I really appreciate your comments and the comments by Fran and other Tgirls. I must admit I joined this forum to look at shemale images and feel horney. I imagined that transexuals were somehow more sexually endowed than genetic women. I had no idea that transitioning was so difficult and even dangerous, in addition to the loss of family support. I am sure you have heard the old story that when God created man he didn't provide enough blood to run the brain and penis at the same time.
I hope you will soon find the love you deserve.
Take care.

This post has been tumbling around in my head for a little while. The tone sounds almost like an apology (as do a number of posts here). There is no need to apologize for being sexually aroused by a trans*woman - shoot, I'm rather fond of it when a guy is aroused by this transwoman. There is also no need to apologize for men in general - since the topic on this thread absolutely passes to non-trans women. Some of the MOST vicious things directed to me and my friends (as well as more famous trans*) have been from natal women. Women are probably more critical of gendered presentation than men are (ask any natal woman who was tall, chunky, a tom-boy who was meaner boys or girls).

So, sure T-gals get disrespected front and back from a little slice of everyone. The battles over using public restrooms for example ... oh man. It's not just a guy thing and it's not just a sex thing. Liking trans* bodies and arousal is probably a good thing. Understanding that we are more and less than guys with tits is critical.

[desirouspussy]

Originally Posted by Bionca

Some of the MOST vicious things directed to me and my friends (as well as more famous trans*) have been from natal women. Women are probably more critical of gendered presentation than men are (ask any natal woman who was tall, chunky, a tom-boy who was meaner boys or girls).

I have come to believe that (natal) women are generally more tolerant towards homo-sexuality than men. Your comment therefore comes as a complete surprise to me, Bionca.

Personally, I have nothing but admiration for the courage and perseverance that you and many other transsexual women are showing. In fact, even though you're not into women, I would love to have you as my friend.

[transjen]

Originally Posted by Bionca

Well, the parents are a no-go. Once I grew some boobs they made it very clear they didn't want a daughter and haven't returned any attempts to communicate. I'm living SECRETLY with my brother because he's afraid that they will freak out on him too and (for whatever reason) wants to have active grandparents for his kid. Last I heard they didn't even have any pictures of me on the wall in the house *shrug*
.

Same here my dad and brother wants nothing to do with me and as far as they are consered i don't exist, My mom is having a very hard time dealing with it but at least she is willing to talk to me, My sister blames herself long story there but short verson she caught me trying on her cloths and she just let me wear them in secert i think she liked the idea of having a little sister but she is blaming herself because i'm Jennifer now, Keep try to reach out hopeful one day they will come to terms with it, When your family turns there back on you that is the hardest slap ever but i'm affraid it happens all too offen, Try this i had my therapist talk to my mom and that broke the ice a little and started us talking agian Jennifer

[new believer]

Originally Posted by Bionca

Well, the parents are a no-go. Once I grew some boobs they made it very clear they didn't want a daughter and haven't returned any attempts to communicate. I'm living SECRETLY with my brother because he's afraid that they will freak out on him too and (for whatever reason) wants to have active grandparents for his kid. Last I heard they didn't even have any pictures of me on the wall in the house *shrug*

Also, I only look for guys looking for gals like me. I have no desire to have that type of conversation with someone - one of the reasons I still only go dancing at gay clubs, won't date guys from work, give guys who ask a fake phone number ... I have no reason to trust that some random dude who hits on me isn't going to freak out (even if he says he doesn't care).

Okay, I see your points. But really think about it. If you feel you always have to be braver, blah blah blah, then your in for a rough ride. You accepted this life earlier because you felt it to be right. People will accept you because they feel it to be right. All those who just 'accept' you only as objects of desire, well that's what they feel. Sooner or later that feeling can possibly bloom into something greater. But don't jump ahead of me on this. DO be careful of 'dates' even GG's have to be. Do make a point of developing a 'knowing' relationship before a physical one. And the guys who bail, let them. their not worth it anyway. I feel I must defend some married guys as well as to refreshen your memory, as with even a dating couple, a girl(GG or TRANS) or guy will want to keep a certain amount of secrecy because they may want to see if the relationship is first worth the effort or 'lost' of their current mate. Not everyone meets, falls in love and stays together from the first. it's called growing up and moving on (and most times to the better). You seem to be having a rough time out there. From your posts, you seem like a really beautiful person. Please don't let the bad get to you. Your destined to make someone out there a very happy person. Enjoy yourself as you would as a teenager but with adult knowledge. If I could relive my life with what I know now, Boy would I be someone else. NB

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Bionca

I'm really not fond of non-trans women being called "real" girls, or for that matter trans women being referred to in the feminine with quotes around the pronouns

Originally Posted by Bionca

Also, I only look for guys looking for gals like me.

Ok, so it does seem that you distinguish between gals like you, and gals who are not like you. Shall we refer to "real" girls from now on as gals unlike Bionca? Or do you have any other suggestions for terminology we should use when talking about "real" girls with people who don't know Bionca?

[franalexes]

hmmmmmm, maybe girls you can knock up and gurls you shouldn't knock down. No?

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Ok, so it does seem that you distinguish between gals like you, and gals who are not like you. Shall we refer to "real" girls from now on as gals unlike Bionca? Or do you have any other suggestions for terminology we should use when talking about "real" girls with people who don't know Bionca?

Curious you would quote only to make half-assed snarky comments. How about the bit where I mentioned that when a distinction needed to be made (indiating that in some cases a distinction would be appropriate) use of a term that implied deception or invalates to a Trans*woman's identity would be appropriate.

Making a distinction where personal safety could be compromised is simple self preservation. I happened to give some suggestions about terms to use, you could always go back a read them. Perhaps you have some you think would be more appropriate?

[SoWhatThenWhy]

I'm pretty sure this won't be a popular post, but I had to chime in. I think the reason some guys don't consider transgendered women "real" women is because they simply aren't. You may be a woman internally, but the term "real" is used to describe the gender we were brought to this earth with. It's like a person associating with a different race; no matter how much they feel they are that race inside, they'll never be.

On top of that, why would you want to be considered a "real" woman anyway? I think there's something special about being transgendered.

Meh, my two cents.

[Darha]

Be patient, I say that "real girls" are as they are in her minds, the body does not define anything (focus on your face, for me this say more than if you have a pussy or penis), I hope to find a woman like you and I know that are many who want to share a life, anybody an find the real love. Will be patient for the rest of the world, one day everybody will respects all of you as a "real girls"

thats just sick beating someone even if i wasnt attracted to tgs i know for a fact that if i ended up about to have sex with one then found out i know i would never beat them i just think that people that do that are really insecure and need to open their mind

[franalexes]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Ok, so it does seem that you distinguish between gals like you, and gals who are not like you. Shall we refer to "real" girls from now on as gals unlike Bionca? Or do you have any other suggestions for terminology we should use when talking about "real" girls with people who don't know Bionca?

Chaulk one up for Tracy.
Bionca, I think the term here is "GOTCHA! " You want a guy(xy) that will treat you as xx but who is not looking for a xx.

[CCC]

Good Golly Miss Molly---after reading this thread I don't know if my opinion would get me a pat on the noggin or a kick in the pants. All I know is the moment a person starts living as a woman full time then I would call her a girl/lady/she/female etc. I have fortuneately met a number of TS's for a better word and have thought of them as ladies every single moment that I have been with them. I also admire them highly for the courage that they have as a whole to have the guts to change thier entire lives and go through all the turmoil of daily living. From what I have seen all TS ladies take more pride in thier appearance than most GG's because they emotionally and physically had to sacrifice --- not just been given it.

OK attack away

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by franalexes

Chaulk one up for Tracy.
Bionca, I think the term here is "GOTCHA! " You want a guy(xy) that will treat you as xx but who is not looking for a xx.

Nope- I'm looking for a guy who can respect me as a human, not an exotic sexual treat. Also, had Tracy actually read the post she quoted, she would have seen a few suggestions for what terms to use when required.

I don't believe anybody deserves to be beaten, just because they are sexualy different, I think they do it because you bring out feelings that makes them think their gay, and it angers them, instead of going with their feelings, they become violent. Cowards, maybe not, just not in touch with their feelings, like some of us. This happened to me and I went with it, glad I did.

Originally Posted by jmad

I don't believe anybody deserves to be beaten, just because they are sexualy different, I think they do it because you bring out feelings that makes them think their gay, and it angers them, instead of going with their feelings, they become violent. Cowards, maybe not, just not in touch with their feelings, like some of us. This happened to me and I went with it, glad I did.

Their "feelings" are their problem. Yes they are cowards. Attacking someone because they are "different" is despicable.

One of my main causes is stopping the violence toward the LGBT community. Maybe because I have friends who have suffered. Maybe because I find the idea of someone beating up a person they presumably went home with because they were attracted to--only to turn violent--especially heinous. Maybe because I am capable of doing something about it.

The next time someone "feels" like that, I hope that they will come to see me instead. We'll talk about it...

[JodieTs]

I'm pretty much stealth all the time,
in that I don't shout my trans status anywhere
People see me and see whatever they want to see.
believe whatever they want to believe.

I do date, and quite early on, involves
"That conversation"
It used to really bother me, but now it doesn't.
This following blog post helped me get my head round things.
I now smile, wink, & say I'm a packin'...then tell them 'that stuff'
I just need to stop thinking about writing a written apology for the anatomical layout of my body,to anyone who finds me attractive.
Yep. I really mentally do think that
The following is the most awesome trans-related thing I have ever read.

http://therealkellyshore.info/2009/11/05/my-wish/

Stop Oppression. We can do it if we just be ourselves with out word slinging and violence.
Why is it we transpeople feel we need to talk back to a group of guys that clocked us in public.
Why do we need to escalate it so its another transsexuals? death in vain.
A beautiful individual working her/his way down the path of peace within her/his self.
The peace they will never be allowed over an escalated argument or dating a man or woman under false pretences.
I?ll go more into this topic later.
It?s a minute out of our day that we were name called, but we have 23:59 to keep on our path and the rest of our lives.
I say lets bury our pride and worry about ourselves and safety first.
Too many transsexual deaths? come from escalating the issue of hate.
We think standing up and yelling back at the person/persons emotionally abusing us,
is going to make them change their mind or change what was said that made us so mad.
I can tell you it wont.
I have always believed you can always catch more bees with honey.
When we decide to take part in the word slinging it escalates the hate more.
It gives them the catalyst to make it easier to physically harm us. Who knows if that day it will be a beating or death.
Why play with fire people?


I don?t get why we give these people filled with hate so much power over our lives?
We should worry more about what we think of ourselves and what our loved ones think,
before instigating a mob of haters. So they called us a fag, a man, a freak, a pervert,
or whatever lame attempt they can throw at us let them have it.
In the end we know who we are and what path we are on.
Let the them have their view, if thats what it takes to keep us safe for another day.
We still have our view, they haven?t taken it from us.
The media may strip us as they like, but we know who we are and thats what is important.
Hold dear to things in you life you value and love.
Remember that tomorrow we most likely wont even remember the incident the day before.
This keeps us safe and gives us the time we need to achieve our genders we need to be viewed as, live as, and love as.
Escalating hate with flinging words can result in having our life ripped away from us.
Remember time is precious, life is precious, and lying on a morgue table is not a wish I have for myself.
My wish is to get these men and women that have beat us and murdered us not have the option of a slap on the wrist with a thing called a sanity plea.
That judicial systems finally start seeing these crimes as hate crimes, and giving them the full punishment of the law.
We need to stop giving these people the angle they need to be set free for our deaths.


Lastly with ladies and gentleman that go around tricking men and women on dates.
I beg you to think of your actions before you keep practising this habit.
I realize you need to be treated as your gender, and maybe you think in your head you can?t be treated solely as that gender if they know.
I assure you this isn?t true!
Lets remember our dead.
Lets remember the beautiful teen Gwen Araujo who played with fire and in the end was burnt.
No she did not deserve this, she was a teen girl wanting to do what every teen girl does her age.
It would be great if we had the luxury of living as any other teen girl,
but we as transwomen have limitations we need to understand this and embrace this.
To protect ourselves.
To stop our murders.
Lets stop giving these people filled with so much hate an excuse to dismiss who we are so easily by killing us.
I am sure I?ll get many debaters on this, saying this is cowardly, but dear it?s smart.
Why throw away your life so easily?
Why do you feel the need to give these people who you only knew for that instant so much power on who we are?
This issue goes on a lot with transmen also tricking women,
violence is less in these instances,
but please remember Brandon.
Another young transperson wanting to be viewed as what he was.
A man.
He wanted to fall in love like everyone does, but loving under false pretenses under any admission will never work out.
There are those rare and lucky cases where tricking did turn out good for the transmen and women,
but don?t base these rare chances on fact or your fate.


Lets talk about what we should do.
Lets ignore the people that don?t understand us on the streets,
and put our anger towards getting our voices heard politically,
by openminded supporters, and by each other.
Lets stop hating on one another and focus this energy on getting transwomen and men
jobs, opportunities, and equal rights.
Lets try to figure out a plan to make sex work less of a stigma of what transsexuals are and do.
Let transwomen and men that have the means open businesses and hire other transpeople.
Many are doing this now, lets stick to doing this.
Lets work on helping our weak and making them strong, instead of focusing on the people who would rather see us dead.
Lets donate money to activist groups who are fighting for our rights in Washington, in our counties, and in our cities.
My wish is to become a more unified, caring, and helping community.
Rather than a community that reads one another, because one girl is less transitioned than the next.
My wish is the lover of transwomen and men stand with us to battle discrimination and oppression.
That they will be proud to say I love transsexuals for whatever their reasoning.
My wish is to see less transsexuals having money for sex and more mainstream jobs.
Even if it?s just stripping.
My wish is to bring our sisterhood and brotherhood together instead of transmen being on one side and transwomen on the other.
Lets stop oppression now.
Lets use our voices to uplift, instead of defending all the time.
Most of all lets stop our murders,
thats my wish.

I would love to see trans-couples come forward to talk about their successes.
Their love.
Their normalcy.
To help educate.
I know there are many couples out there but so little come out and talk, all you hear is about escorts.
We need to make a stand with empowerment and education, not with idle words and comebacks.
It leaves us nowhere!
XoXo

Kelly