Gender Identification Requirement! Why?

[marlowe]

It is now obligatory to make a self-identification of gender in order to participate on this forum.

Why?

I'm completely baffled as to why this is seen as necessary. Perhaps the powers that be (SSL?) can enlighten us?

I think this is bizarre on a forum which has some lively discussion on aspects of gender identification, it's ambiguities, nuances, and fluidity.

I'm aware that bm 'sesame' recently posted the following:

"I think it should be made mandatory for all
forum members to fill the personal info properly.
At least fill in the gender part, so we can
address each other properly. If this info is
put in ones personal information, in user cp,
we can just click the username and instantly
know if the addressee is a man, woman, or Tg.
At least, man or woman?
At present, its very difficult because,
most members have ambiguous usernames
and equally elusive avatars."

It's an opinion but I don't see the persuasive argument here. What's wrong with addressing people by their username? If you want more information about someone you can always ask, either in a public thread or by pm, and the person can choose to answer or not. Avatars and usernames intentionally offer the possibility of ambiguity or anonymity if that's what a person wants.

Here's what another member 'Jennangelina' had to say in another context about telling the boys from the girls:

"yeah in pictures, on da streets in dance clubs (where i am all da time) it's hard to be really sure who is who or what anymore...........i am always in dance clubs and clubs and at campus and im always with my dance crew and peeps hit n me my friends and never can u tell unless u know dats so true."

That sounds to me like a club worth visiting, and good fun!

I don't have a problem personally with publicizing my gender self-identification and I don't suppose most people mind or that it will put people off joining. That's not the point, it's not a big deal - and precisely because it's not a big deal I can't for the life of me understand why it's now a requirement, and I think it should be reconsidered.

Actually I'm far more disturbed to see I've now graduated to 'Senior Ladyboy Lover' status! It sounds as though I should be drawing my pension.!!!

[ila]

I am in complete agreement with Marlowe and also wonder why the need for gender identification. On more than one occasion I have publicly identified myself as a male, but I chose to do so. I do not see a need for enforced identification and think that this policy should be rescinded.

[sesame]

In a forum, everyone hides their real identity. We take up non-descriptive names like cat, mat, bat or A, B, C and ply all over the place. It is sometimes uncomfortable to ask someone upfront, Hey, are you a man or a woman or Tg? How many times have you done that?
There are threads asking about your Occupation, Place of Origin or Gender. But its a hard job finding (or remembering if I read it somewhere) those facts for one particular member from hundreds of posts.
Its uncomfortable to chat or commune with someone I know nothing about. Just letting others know my gender doesn't feel like a bust on my privacy. I'm sorry and readily apologise if someone feels otherwise.

Knowing a little about your addressee indeed improves communication.

[ila]

Originally Posted by sesame

In a forum, everyone hides their real identity. We take up non-descriptive names like cat, mat, bat or A, B, C and ply all over the place. It is sometimes uncomfortable to ask someone upfront, Hey, are you a man or a woman or Tg? How many times have you done that?
There are threads asking about your Occupation, Place of Origin or Gender. But its a hard job finding (or remembering if I read it somewhere) those facts for one particular member from hundreds of posts.
Its uncomfortable to chat or commune with someone I know nothing about. Just letting others know my gender doesn't feel like a bust on my privacy. I'm sorry and readily apologise if someone feels otherwise.

Knowing a little about your addressee indeed improves communication.

I still say it is unnecessary to this site and to other users to know what the gender is of any other users.
It is usually possible to determine someone's gender from the posts that a person makes. If you are really unsure of the gender of another and want to know PM said person and ask.
I can't see how knowing anyone's gender makes it any easier to communicate. Just treat all others with the respect that you would like to be treated with and there should be no problem.
In conclusion gender identification is not necessary and is an intrusion on a person's anonymity.

[sesame]

I have always treated everyone with respect. There is no question about that. A man talks and treats a Ggirl or Tg in a certain way, which is quite distinct from the manner he will with his fellow man. The same goes for behavioral patterns of women/transwomen mutually and towards the gender they are attracted to.
All human beings have a different set of behaviors reserved for the opposite sex. How uncomfortable does it feel if you pass a comment on someone assuming the person's gender and it turns out otherwise?

It is usually possible to determine someone's gender from the posts that a person makes.

Well, easier said than done. Let me site a good example for your benefit.
I did'nt know you are a man until yesterday!
Now, do you understand?

Knowing the gender of the member I am talking to really improves the quality of conversation.
It doesn't take away your anonymity.
anonymity = namelessness I still dont know your name!

[marlowe]

Originally Posted by sesame

All human beings have a different set of behaviors reserved for the opposite sex.

Do they? Highly debatable, I'm not sure how you can speak for all human beings. Certainly it can be the case when some people adopt different behavior towards the opposite sex that it's despicable. Also, surely it's not possible in some cases of gender self-identity to define an 'opposite'.

How uncomfortable does it feel if you pass a comment on someone assuming the person's gender and it turns out otherwise?

If that scenario makes you uncomfortable perhaps it's better not to pass the comment.

Let me site a good example for your benefit.
I did'nt know you are a man until yesterday!
Now, do you understand?

No. I understand that in this post and your previous reply you make a good case for why you feel more comfortable knowing the gender of another member, and how that is a help for you in judging what behavior you wish to adopt. However I still see nothing that addresses the question of why it is a requirement. If it is deemed a requirement then that is presumably because it is necessary. I don't understand what, for the functioning of this forum, makes stating ones gender self-identity a necessity?

[Joebad]

I don't have a problem with it. Now you know that I'm a man who lives somewhere on earth (presumably).

[SSL]

Ok guys, this new requirement was not meant to upset or discriminate anyone, i only implemented it to simplify the communication between forum members. Every now and then I am receiving complaints from members (especially from those with misleading monikers or avatars) that they're getting PMs from other people that assume they are of some different gender, and it's getting them annoyed. I believe this is the reason some of the members have totally opted out of receiving PMs at all...

To address this remark of Marlowe:

I think this is bizarre on a forum which has some lively discussion on aspects of gender identification, it's ambiguities, nuances, and fluidity.

Well, Gender is and always will stay editable at members' profiles. So if someone for example feels more like a tgirl than a transvestite on a certain day, it can be changed in a matter of two clicks Consider specifying your gender as the way of telling other people how to address you.

Do you think i should add more selection choises (perhaps, "undisclosed") to the list?

[SSL]

Originally Posted by marlowe

Actually I'm far more disturbed to see I've now graduated to 'Senior Ladyboy Lover' status! It sounds as though I should be drawing my pension.!!!

Yeah, i agree in a certain way it sounds inappropriate. Currently there are three default user titles:

• Junior Ladyboy Lover
• Apprentice Ladyboy Lover
• Senior Ladyboy Lover

Probably i should change them to something more interesting? All suggestions are welcome

[SSL]

Perhaps members' reputations should also be revised? See this thread:
http://forum.transladyboy.com/showthread.php?t=958

[GRH]

Shemale Sex Lover, thanks for your reply. I admit, I too felt that the "Requirement" of disclosing gender was a bit odd. I don't have a problem revealing it myself, but quite honestly, that's the sort of question that I usually leave blank. However, that is also the sort of question that generally forces a person to pigeonhole themself into one of two limited categories. I was so relieved to go to a doctor's office that actually gave the option on the gender question to denote, "Transgender, Alternative," or "Prefer not to answer."

I understand where you're coming from, but given the unique nature of gender expression (especially in a forum such as this!) I would be tempted to AT LEAST add the option of "Prefer not to disclose." Or something along those lines...That way those people that prefer to remain more anonymous, or less forced into labeling themselves, still have that benefit. At the same time, if they get PM's that go against their conception of themselves, they can at least have HAD the opportunity of defining their gender from the outset.

In regards to the whole communication issue, all of my screen names are gender neutral...More as a matter of coincidence than by design. And that said, over my years of interacting with people on the internet, my gender has seldom been ANY sort of issue to hamper my ability to effectively communicate. But then again, my goal was never to pick up someone or date.

[marlowe]

To SSL:

I was arguing a point of principle on what should constitute a requirement for being on this forum. What's done is done, and I'm not sure most people are too fussed about this.

To be constructive I think that GRH makes a very good suggestion here:

Originally Posted by GRH

I understand where you're coming from, but given the unique nature of gender expression (especially in a forum such as this!) I would be tempted to AT LEAST add the option of "Prefer not to disclose." Or something along those lines...That way those people that prefer to remain more anonymous, or less forced into labeling themselves, still have that benefit. At the same time, if they get PM's that go against their conception of themselves, they can at least have HAD the opportunity of defining their gender from the outset.

By having an option along the lines of "Prefer not to disclose" then you're saying - 'we require members to select an option regarding gender identification because we believe it makes for better communication but if you prefer not to specify then you may choose not to disclose'.

Maybe "Prefer not to disclose" would be better put as "Gender undisclosed" or "Gender unstated" as this would make more sense when it appears with the username on posts.

Regarding more selection choices you could consider having "Other" and allowing people to type in their own description.

Well now I'm going to get off my high horse on this. I shall go and change my underwear and be a transvestite for the rest of the day.

[marlowe]

Originally Posted by Shemale Sex Lover

Yeah, i agree in a certain way it sounds inappropriate. Currently there are three default user titles:

• Junior Ladyboy Lover
• Apprentice Ladyboy Lover
• Senior Ladyboy Lover

Probably i should change them to something more interesting? All suggestions are welcome

I was being a bit tongue in cheek with my observation about "Senior Ladyboy Lover". I don't have any bright ideas on this, I guess the current categories are as good as anything.

[marlowe]

Originally Posted by Shemale Sex Lover

Perhaps members' reputations should also be revised? See this thread:
http://forum.transladyboy.com/showthread.php?t=958

Thx, that clears that up. I've never understood before how the reputation thing works and I've been wondering what those green buttons are for. Every now and then I click on them hoping they'll take me to nirvana or somewhere but nothing happens!

[sesame]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sesame
All human beings have a different set of behaviors reserved for the opposite sex.

Marlowe:

Do they? Highly debatable, I'm not sure how you can speak for all human beings. Certainly it can be the case when some people adopt different behavior towards the opposite sex that it's despicable. Also, surely it's not possible in some cases of gender self-identity to define an 'opposite'.

Its in the nature of things, my friend. Like poles repel, unlike attract. Haven't you ever heard of magnets?

[marlowe]

Originally Posted by sesame

Its in the nature of things, my friend. Like poles repel, unlike attract. Haven't you ever heard of magnets?

Hmm..... er..... um.....
Magnets? Magnets magnets magnets magnets.... *scratch*.... er... um...
*stumped*..... magnets?..... *more coffee*...... er.... er.... *maybe*.....

Ok.... let's have a go.....

Magnets? Is that really a good metaphor for gender identity and how it affects behavioral interaction? I beg to disagree: *smug*

Magnets only have two poles, if we are talking about gender identity that doesn't scan. And if we're talking of attraction / repulsion what about all the vagaries in the toing and froing, all the points inbetween, it's not always as polarised as 'she loves me, she loves me not, she loves me, she loves me not'. And finally...
(*here's my really big gun haha*)
.... in this context how do you make magnets work for homosexuality, as in two people sharing the same gender identity being attracted to each other?

VoilÃ*. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!
(*triumphant*.... *hmmm*.... *not so sure*.... *he'll find a way of weedling out*....)

Cheers

[sesame]

After setting much tobacco to fire, I have come to this inference.
There are always 2 poles in all cases that involve partners. Even among Homosexual relationships. One is more dominant (Lesbian => Dyke type) another is submissive (more feminine type).
Case solved, Watson! Anything once explained is easy.: Holmes

[ila]

Originally Posted by Shemale Sex Lover

Yeah, i agree in a certain way it sounds inappropriate. Currently there are three default user titles:

• Junior Ladyboy Lover
• Apprentice Ladyboy Lover
• Senior Ladyboy Lover

Probably i should change them to something more interesting? All suggestions are welcome

I noticed that for those that had user titles other than the default setting the user title changed to the default setting after entering their gender. For example tlover used to be shecock inspector and he is back to senior ladyboy lover. I used to be shecock obsessed and I'm back to senior ladyboy lover. These are just two that I can think of right off and I'm sure there are others in addition to some that have still not come on the site since the gender requirement came into force.

[GRH]

Originally Posted by sesame

After setting much tobacco to fire, I have come to this inference.
There are always 2 poles in all cases that involve partners. Even among Homosexual relationships. One is more dominant (Lesbian => Dyke type) another is submissive (more feminine type).
Case solved, Watson! Anything once explained is easy.: Holmes

Sesame, I love you, but you are WAY over simplifying all things sexual/intimate. If everything boils down to that dichotomy, why not ask for people to express their preference to be a "top" or "bottom?" "Submissive" or "masculine?" I'm sure that you would find a WIDE range of sexuality that appreciates submissive masculinity, submissive feminimity, dominant masculinity, dominant feminimity, etc. Further, your reckoning doesn't even take into account homosexual men, nor does it account for a relationship where the partners are seemingly matched in terms of switching ends of being "receiving" and "giving" on a more or less equal basis. Sorry if you feel the need to justify your own communications by pigeonholing people into a finite set of categories-- I myself do not follow this trend.

[sesame]

Ok, Ok, GRH,
I am not over-generalizing the nature of relations.
My idea is, whatever the gender of the partners are, in a longterm relationship... they gradually fall back into the two stereotype behaviors of nature: masculine and feminine. And I am not only referring to sexual relations.

submissive masculinity, submissive feminimity, dominant masculinity, dominant feminimity

If partners switch ends frequently... maybe they are experimenting, OR,
Those can be described as getting a kick out of role playing, may be?

[sesame]

GRH

justify your own communications by pigeonholing people

Ouch, baby, that sounds like an attack!
I am only expressing my view; I ain't sticking labels on anyone in particular. Its just an opinion. If you disagree, tell me your point of view. I am always interested.

[SSL]

Originally Posted by ila

I noticed that for those that had user titles other than the default setting the user title changed to the default setting after entering their gender. For example tlover used to be shecock inspector and he is back to senior ladyboy lover. I used to be shecock obsessed and I'm back to senior ladyboy lover. These are just two that I can think of right off and I'm sure there are others in addition to some that have still not come on the site since the gender requirement came into force.

Duh, thanks for pointing that out ila, i never noticed the custom titles were gone.. Have no idea why that happened. Going to restore them shortly

[twistedone]

Perhaps I'm just too simple minded. I don't see any problem with this requirement. It doesn't identify who I am exactly or where I live, so my security is maintained, unless I want to disclose that information.

I'm a male, I love T-girls.

I wouldn't be here if I didn't.

Now lets get back to a more enjoyable topic, the one we all love, ways to pleasure all those beeeeautiful t-girls.

[ila]

Originally Posted by twistedone

I don't see any problem with this requirement.

For some people there is a problem. I'm not one who has a problem with it, but there are others that have various reasons for not wanting to identify their gender. I think accommodation should be made for those that do not want to identify.

[hankhavelock]

I don't know if it should necessarily be obligatory to tell your gender - on the other hand... we ARE discussing gender-related issues here, so it's nice to know whom you're talking to. And in spite of the fact that this is not per se a dating forum there still is this "kind-of-magic".

In that regard it's really not much different from a dating-forum, where it would seem quite silly not to tell your gender.

But what do I know?

H

[marlowe]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

And in spite of the fact that this is not per se a dating forum there still is this "kind-of-magic".H

I've never been on a dating forum. Of course I understand the basic principals, but I wonder what you mean by "kind-of-magic". Are you talking about the fun of flirting?

M

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by marlowe

I've never been on a dating forum. Of course I understand the basic principals, but I wonder what you mean by "kind-of-magic". Are you talking about the fun of flirting?

M

Yep ;-)

But a bit further... If I were in the neighbourhood of quite a few of the Godesses here on this forum (I'm too far away - but), I would for sure try my best to get a date IRL. Because in the end we can only get to know each other THAT much via internet-talk... nothing beats meeting for real!

So yes, of course, any forum where ppl communicate is a potential "dating-forum". So don't keep hiding behind the screen... go for the ladies, baby :-) They may even be pleased that you do!

Peace & love, my man!

H

[SHEMALE_SEEKER]

Actually, gender ID requirement helps in lots of situations, Like if I wanna show my appreciation to someone, but I don't know what gender do they consider themselves, so I get confused choosing what to say : ROCK ON DUDE, THATS MA BOY, OR OH THANK YOU, YOU ARE A VERY NICE GIRL.So it helps in avoiding awkward situations, and also in avoiding hurting somebody`s feelings, by referring to them in the wrong manner of gender ID.

Bottom line is that I agree with the GID REQ., Still, the subject should remain open for discussion.....

[marlowe]

Originally Posted by SHEMALE_SEEKER

Actually, gender ID requirement helps in lots of situations, Like if I wanna show my appreciation to someone, but I don't know what gender do they consider themselves, so I get confused choosing what to say : ROCK ON DUDE, THATS MA BOY, OR OH THANK YOU, YOU ARE A VERY NICE GIRL.So it helps in avoiding awkward situations, and also in avoiding hurting somebody`s feelings, by referring to them in the wrong manner of gender ID.

I see what you mean. That would also be a help in deciding whether to say 'fuck you, cunt' or 'stick it up your arse, prick'.

[SHEMALE_SEEKER]

Originally Posted by marlowe

I see what you mean. That would also be a help in deciding whether to say 'fuck you, cunt' or 'stick it up your arse, prick'.

Exactamente..

[twistedone]

You have a valid point. Perhaps for those that do have problems with it, it should be voluntary.

Still. Lets get back to more important concerns here. Those BEAUTIFUL SHEMALES.

Originally Posted by ila

For some people there is a problem. I'm not one who has a problem with it, but there are others that have various reasons for not wanting to identify their gender. I think accommodation should be made for those that do not want to identify.

[ila]

Originally Posted by Shemale Sex Lover

Ok guys, this new requirement was not meant to upset or discriminate anyone, i only implemented it to simplify the communication between forum members. Every now and then I am receiving complaints from members (especially from those with misleading monikers or avatars) that they're getting PMs from other people that assume they are of some different gender, and it's getting them annoyed. I believe this is the reason some of the members have totally opted out of receiving PMs at all...

Apparently putting my gender, which appears next to my avatar, is no barrier to receiving PMs from other men assuming that I am not male. I still receive PMs from men telling me how beautiful I am (I can only wish to look so good). It doesn't bother me if someone sends a PM to me assuming that I am not male. Sometimes the PMs are even rather humourous. My point is that even though I have identified myself as a male both in my profile and in several posts some people don't bother to read that one little line beside my avatar, therefore why the identity requirement. (This is not a complaint SSL. I don't mind receiving PMs of any kind).

So here is a hint for new users. My avatar is Amy. I am not Amy. :-)

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by ila

Apparently putting my gender, which appears next to my avatar, is no barrier to receiving PMs from other men assuming that I am not male. I still receive PMs from men telling me how beautiful I am (I can only wish to look so good). It doesn't bother me if someone sends a PM to me assuming that I am not male. Sometimes the PMs are even rather humourous. My point is that even though I have identified myself as a male both in my profile and in several posts some people don't bother to read that one little line beside my avatar, therefore why the identity requirement. (This is not a complaint SSL. I don't mind receiving PMs of any kind).

So here is a hint for new users. My avatar is Amy. I am not Amy.

May I politely ask why u don't put a pic of urself then? Isn't that better branding, so to speak? :-) Or is it just me who so totallymisunderstood it all?

[ila]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

May I politely ask why u don't put a pic of urself then? Isn't that better branding, so to speak? :-) Or is it just me who so totallymisunderstood it all?

I don't have any digital pictures of myself. I don't have a digital cameral either. And as I said before I don't mind identifying myself as a male. I have on several occasions. I'm also not complaining about people that send my PMs or those that think I am not male.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by ila

I don't have any digital pictures of myself. I don't have a digital cameral either. And as I said before I don't mind identifying myself as a male. I have on several occasions. I'm also not complaining about people that send my PMs or those that think I am not male.

:-) It's all fine - I just asked :-)

[GRH]

I will never use a blatantly gender-fied avatar, nor will I ever use a screen name that leads to associations one way or the other. This is no criticism of anyone, it's just how I've conducted myself over the years on the internet. I'm not even a huge fan of avatars to begin with, as should be evidenced my lack of one. That DOES make me less memorable, and I'm ok with that. I'd rather be remembered for my content and substance than a picture by my name. But as has been pointed out, does the presence or lack thereof of a gender ID necessarily clarify things? Avatars, screen names, etc. play such a huge role in how we perceive each other...I again urge that the GID should be optional, as is the choice to use an avatar. We can relate to each other however we so choose, be it by full disclosure of GID, a picture of ourself in the avatar, hell, those that want can even include their address and phone number in a profile. Still, we should have a choice without being forced to lie or categorize ourselves...

[sesame]

We like to hide our faces and crotches!
... from the judging eyes of society (which is so full of shit)

[sesame]

In this world, especially over the fictitious Internet, everyone is for themselves and everything is so very temporary! Love, friendship, enmity, fame, notoriety... everything is false and worth two days. So revealing everything about yourself for one glimpse of a mask (not the real thing even) is infinitely foolish.

What do you say?

[ila]

Originally Posted by sesame

In this world, especially over the fictitious Internet, everyone is for themselves and everything is so very temporary! Love, friendship, enmity, fame, notoriety... everything is false and worth two days. So revealing everything about yourself for one glimpse of a mask (not the real thing even) is infinitely foolish.

What do you say?

I'm not averse to showing myself, but after my current avatar the real me would be a big letdown.

Not everything is false. People do reveal themselves on the internet and especially in fora. Of course not everyone reveals their true selves and not everyone that reveals himself/herself will necessarily reveal everything. There are the two ends of the spectrum where on one end a person will reveal nothing and on the other end is the person who will reveal everything. I believe that most people fall into the middle and reveal part of themselves. The question then, dear reader, is where do you fall into? As for me I am in the middle. I have revealed some of who and what I really am, but I have not revealed everything.

[sesame]

I have revealed my opinion, my personality, thats the real me, not my face or the name. And I think thats enough revelation.

As far as our identities go, the webmaster knows all our ip addresses.
That should reveal our locations, computer names and all.
Oh, people, dont freak out so much. He is supposed to keep that secret.
Aint it, Mr. Webmaster?

[GRH]

Originally Posted by sesame

In this world, especially over the fictitious Internet, everyone is for themselves and everything is so very temporary! Love, friendship, enmity, fame, notoriety... everything is false and worth two days. So revealing everything about yourself for one glimpse of a mask (not the real thing even) is infinitely foolish.

What do you say?

Alas Sesame, you speak truth...For all I know, YOU could be a woman, and for that matter, I could be a perverted old man. This medium of exchange is very temporal and fleeting. That said, it IS a viable means of communicating and exchanging ideas. In my own estimation, I'd rather be as up front as possible, because by being honest up front, we can better understand one another's perspective. This is one reason I don't post pictures of myself or use an avatar...I'd rather be judged by my interactions than by pictures...But for whatever lack that creates, I am pretty honest about where I live and other mundry details of my life.

As you have proven, pictures are largely irrelevant to who we actually are. In the case of ila, I must admit, your own avatar has thrown me on more than one occasion. That said, I've never bothered to look at your "Gender Tag" but it just goes to show how a picture, or ANY preconception of a person, can go to affect how we interact with them. Ila, I LOVE your avatar, whether you are male or female, but surely you can see where it throws some people. And that you're ok with that makes you that much better in my book. As you suggest, I fear that my own intellect and posting might far surpass my looks in the minds of the fantastical, horny poster. The reality seldom lives up to the fantasy...In ANY pursuit...

[SHEMALE_SEEKER]

Originally Posted by ila

I'm not averse to showing myself, but after my current avatar the real me would be a big letdown.

Not sure about that, from what I've seen so far, you sound like a very nice person, so please don't say that about yourself.

[TheSkronkDonkey]

I did, and still do, regard the mandatory requirement of specifying gender as an infringement on privacy / liberty. For a while, I decided not to specify my gender, especially after I'd already been a member, and suddenly had this requirement thrust upon me, which meant I couldn't view the board and was clearly barred from any way of contributing. This seemed outrageous to me. In the end, I relented and put my gender up, as it's no big personal deal to me, but on principle, I almost never relented and came back. I do think this policy should be rescinded -- or at least revised. The idea of having an "undisclosed" option is an excellent idea.