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  #1  
Old 06-18-2009
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Default Elitist, condescending Western... little trannies...

I know, it's a provocative headline, and I doubt it applies to anyone here at this good forum. This forum would be considered below their standards anyway, I'm certain. But I sense that there is a hard core political group of (mostly post-op) MTF trans*women, who sort of has "monopolized" or "taken a patent out on" transsexuality.

They are the ones who'd definitely hate my little ass for even DARING to speak of Asian trans*life (my boy, my boy, my boy, my boy... my little LADYboy... Fergie, Black Eyed Peas) and they are the ones who'd NEVER allow a man into their life unless he would commit to transsexuality IN SPITE of himself. Well, most of them are probably trans*lesbians anyway and would consider a trans*woman attracted to men a "fake gay".

I've met such types on a Danish forum once. They hated my ass vehemently and called me a discusting little ladyboy lover (I dunno about discusting, but the rest holds water). I also remember one of my "unworthy" Asian trans*friends smilingly stating that probably I shouldn't worry too much about that as I for sure would have the backing of every single Asian transsexual... :-)

My point is that this can become TOO political and emotional. I admit freely that I adore transsexuality on so many levels - one of them also being able to view it in a rather relaxed way, joking about it, smiling about it, discussing it freely from all sides without the fear of stepping on someone's tranny*toes...

Somehow I sense some degree of (understandable) insecurity in these women - as if they cannot really come to terms with their transsexuality. Hence, they would never love a guy-like-me who actually loves a girl-like-them because that in itself would be submitting to the fact that their cromosomes are XY and not XX.

As if transsexuality is ONLY for them to define and shame on us who actually have a more empirical approach and actually just adore it.

Why should it for example be a crime to be attracted to a pretty trans*woman? Does anyone doubt the logic for guys being attracted to pretty cis*women? And where is the difference?

I never really subscribed to the "right mind in the wrong body" stuff. That is based on a denial and disrespect of transsexuality as an identification IN IT'S OWN RIGHT. Do you really think, ladies, that it would have been better if you were born bio-women? I think not.

Fiona once stated it extremely clear and beautifully. She said: "I'm a woman, a TRANSSEXUAL woman, and I want to be. I don't want to be a bio-woman, I'm unique as I am as a transsexual". I adored her for stating it that precisely and eloquently. She was SO right. She stated the pride that every single little tranny in this world should feel...

H
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Last edited by hankhavelock; 06-18-2009 at 09:01 AM. Reason: misspelling
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  #2  
Old 06-23-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hankhavelock View Post
I know, it's a provocative headline, and I doubt it applies to anyone here at this good forum. This forum would be considered below their standards anyway, I'm certain. But I sense that there is a hard core political group of (mostly post-op) MTF trans*women, who sort of has "monopolized" or "taken a patent out on" transsexuality.

They are the ones who'd definitely hate my little ass for even DARING to speak of Asian trans*life (my boy, my boy, my boy, my boy... my little LADYboy... Fergie, Black Eyed Peas) and they are the ones who'd NEVER allow a man into their life unless he would commit to transsexuality IN SPITE of himself. Well, most of them are probably trans*lesbians anyway and would consider a trans*woman attracted to men a "fake gay".

I've met such types on a Danish forum once. They hated my ass vehemently and called me a discusting little ladyboy lover (I dunno about discusting, but the rest holds water). I also remember one of my "unworthy" Asian trans*friends smilingly stating that probably I shouldn't worry too much about that as I for sure would have the backing of every single Asian transsexual... :-)

My point is that this can become TOO political and emotional. I admit freely that I adore transsexuality on so many levels - one of them also being able to view it in a rather relaxed way, joking about it, smiling about it, discussing it freely from all sides without the fear of stepping on someone's tranny*toes...

Somehow I sense some degree of (understandable) insecurity in these women - as if they cannot really come to terms with their transsexuality. Hence, they would never love a guy-like-me who actually loves a girl-like-them because that in itself would be submitting to the fact that their cromosomes are XY and not XX.

As if transsexuality is ONLY for them to define and shame on us who actually have a more empirical approach and actually just adore it.

Why should it for example be a crime to be attracted to a pretty trans*woman? Does anyone doubt the logic for guys being attracted to pretty cis*women? And where is the difference?

I never really subscribed to the "right mind in the wrong body" stuff. That is based on a denial and disrespect of transsexuality as an identification IN IT'S OWN RIGHT. Do you really think, ladies, that it would have been better if you were born bio-women? I think not.

Fiona once stated it extremely clear and beautifully. She said: "I'm a woman, a TRANSSEXUAL woman, and I want to be. I don't want to be a bio-woman, I'm unique as I am as a transsexual". I adored her for stating it that precisely and eloquently. She was SO right. She stated the pride that every single little tranny in this world should feel...

H

They may hate Asian TS because A) there may not be as free access to hormones and such early on in their lives as in Thailand, and they cost proportionally more B) Western i.e. White and Black trans are often not as passable, even with work as Asian TS are C) they see a lot of guys going to Thailand to meet hot TS and even the hot parties in NYC are often TS partying by themselves with very few men around.
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Old 06-27-2009
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Hank I agree with most of what you say. In the west there is a rather large group of gals who have completed SRS and tend to look down on pre- or god forbid non- op gals. Likewise they have little good to say about guys who date us.

My take is that for most doctors who deal with trans* patients the assumption is that you are only serious if you have a desire to be rid of the penis. They erase gals like me who simply don't care about it, or gals who like it, or gals who don't like surgery, or who don't want to risk their ability to orgasm, or who simply can't afford it.

There is a trend with lots of TGs to also slag on other gals and operation stats and "passability" are the easiest ways to discredit someone you don't like. Guys tend to get caught in the cross-fire I think.

The only part I'd had some issue with in your post is that it would have been easier, cheaper, less agonizingly stressful, and happier had I been assigned a female at birth. While that is more a statement to the culture and society that pretty basic stuff is often very hard for gals like me not to mention simply fighting to have your identity recognized.

So, while being trans* should be a neutral position - no better/worse than short or tall. The reality is it's tough and even unintentionally dismissing that by asking if it would have been better being born a girl hurts a little.
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Old 06-27-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megawatty101 View Post
They may hate Asian TS because A) there may not be as free access to hormones and such early on in their lives as in Thailand, and they cost proportionally more B) Western i.e. White and Black trans are often not as passable, even with work as Asian TS are C) they see a lot of guys going to Thailand to meet hot TS and even the hot parties in NYC are often TS partying by themselves with very few men around.
a) Hormones are harder to get and require more to access than is Thailand or Brazil

b) debatable

c) For the most part we think the sex tourists are pretty pathetic and not worth much thought. The run off to a place where their mates can't find them and STILL call the walk to the hotel "the walk of shame". Not much quality going on there.
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  #5  
Old 06-28-2009
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So, while being trans* should be a neutral position - no better/worse than short or tall. The reality is it's tough and even unintentionally dismissing that by asking if it would have been better being born a girl hurts a little.
Missy B, I know it's tough and I regret the fact that it has to be tough at all. I'm also of the belief that the main part of the toughness lies in the sad fact that trans*identity is considered weird by mainstream society. It will take time and effort to change that unfortunate view shared by the majority of the hetero right.

Demanding SRS as a basis for changing legal gender, as is now the norm, to me is to sit between two chairs. Either society goes truly "cromosomian" (I certainly hope not) or accept the fact that trans*identity is a mental thing that for most transsexuals has little to do with genital habitus. Demanding SRS is demanding bodily mutilation for the sake of satisfying the uninformed lay peoples' perception of "he and she". And unfortunately some trans*people fall victim to and share this faulty belief.

My point, again, is, that trans*idendity is GOOD in its own right. And it should be celebrated as such.

I do believe, though, that certain exterior manifestations of the preferred gender should have been actively expressed over a consistant amount of time before a legal gender change can be done.

You know, I presume, that I'd NEVER intentionally say or do anything to hurt trans*identity. I applaud it, I salute it, I find it wonderful and honest and beautiful. I believe the world would be a poorer place without transsexuality.

H
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Old 06-28-2009
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Reading Hank's demise leaves me a little 'bothered' in such a way that there seems little hope for mankind(sic). If one remembers,or learns some of the old adages like 'all good things come to those who wait', 'patience is a virtue', 'judge not, lest ye be judged' and so many more. The sorrowful tale is that we have become a 'I want it, and I want it NOW' mental basket case society. Evolution has worked for eons yet we demand change to suit our own whims. Practices, traditions or standards have gone by the wayside as time passed. Our forebeares have muddled through it with little complaint (compared to ours)yet we are not so blessed with their foresight. What worked(or didn't) for them was of little personal thought other than basic survival. Their consept of the future was for their offspings to live in a better and easier way. Was times tough for them? You better believe it. But as they got older the rewards were to their decendents. They just allowed the natural flow to work its ways. All I'm saying is to live as you want(within the bounds of sanity), and let change occur for the better on its own.
But do not take crap from anyone either. Laws have changed over time as our perspectives. One only has to look at some laws still on the books but not enforced.
And as for individual comments,beliefs, remember that they to will change. Live long and prosper Hank, your beliefs will carry on even as you to pass.
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Old 06-28-2009
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Oh, there's hope, my brother, there's hope! We're moving in the right direction and in the end good wins over evil. We only have to look a bit to the side and to the LGB in the LGBT-term.

Homo- and bisexuals are now (and have been for quite some time) reaping the democratic fruits of a rather massive "campaign" that has been going on since at least the sixties. Regrettably, that has not really been the case for transsexuals. They have been sort of lost in the turmoil.

But I see absolutely no reason to believe in status quo. Trans*identity really IS coming to peoples' minds now. It'll take time but it will happen - if we team up to work for the cause.

And one major ingredient is to be out of the closet! I'm doing my own little personal "campaign" among the people that I happen to interact with. Either politically in discussions or for real when they actually meet her.

And this is EXACTLY why I again and again preach for the acceptance of transsexuality as wonderful in its OWN right. Even among trans*women. I refuse to view M2F transsexuality as an excuse for "real" womanhood. Because it IS in itself womanhood - as real as it gets.

At least by my probably limited perception... :-)

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Last edited by hankhavelock; 06-28-2009 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 06-28-2009
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......But I see absolutely no reason to believe in status quo. Trans*identity really IS coming to peoples' minds now. It'll take time but it will happen - if we team up to work for the cause.

And one major ingredient is to be out of the closet! I'm doing my own little personal "campaign" among the people that I happen to interact with. Either politically in discussions or for real when they actually meet her.......
Everyone can do their part by being as Hank says "out of the closet." I talk to my friends and co-workers about transexuality every chance I get. At first I was surprised at how accepting everyone is. I think that it's possible to change people's perceptions and views if only someone talks to them and explains his/her opinions in a calm and rational manner. It's also harder to for someone to put down a group when that person knows someone and is friends with a person who identifies with and defends that group. Now I find that the more I talk about transexuality with my friends and co-workers the more accepting they are and the easier it is to bring up the topic.

So as Hank says don't stay in the closet; discuss the issue openly and honestly with friends, family, acquaintance, co-workers, etc.
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Old 06-28-2009
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Well said, Ila. That's the way. And we WILL meet misunderstandings. Let me give a real-life conversation that I had with a friend of mine about a year ago. It went something like this:

him: Well... how do I say this... the problem is, that you're into little boys...

me: Little boys... do you think I have sex with minors?

him: No no... you know what I mean... you were very explicit the other night... talking about being penetrated and so...

me: Ok, maybe I was too explicit, but the fact remains that that's who I am... I will NEVER hide the fact that I adore trans*woman... and they are neither "little", nor "boys"...

him: I know and understand and I totally accept it, but others in our little Danish community here now consider you weird...

me: So be it... I'll deal with that and don't you worry a second. I'll challenge them face-on and kindly make them understand the mechanism of my PERSONAL attraction.

---

Later, I've had the chance to "challenge" some of these folks who were apparently a little afraid of me, and in the end they are all just uninformed heteros with a limited imagination and thus a bias against what they cannot grasp. But once I stand in front of them, beer in hand and we're ALL friends on a Friday night, then they understand. At least they appear to.

I dunno what they say to their wives at night when they get home, but to me they are nice enough, and I've never met a single one who truly dared challenge me on my views.

And why should he? Because I'm right! I'm "good", and if they contest that they are initially "bad" and prudes. They sense that, of course.

But again, you WILL meet ignorance! When you do then be strong and reasonable and think of what is SO true to you. Once a gay guy persistently told me that trans*people are gays who just found an easier way to find straight lovers... no matter what I said he persisted. This was in a chat, so I was ready to punch my screen, but I had to realize that some people remain ignorant no matter what I say. And so be it.

BUT we can all make a difference if we are vocal and outta that idiotic closet. As Michael sang it: "Take a look at the man in the mirror..." When ever I view myself I would like to know that in spite of my faults I at least do a little bit right...

Peace!

H
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