There's really nothing honourable about dead American soldiers in an unjust war...

[hankhavelock]

But there is a lot of sadness to it! Insane tragedy brought on by an insane presidential administration who did all this for their own evil purposes.

The American soldiers who lost their lives in WW2 will always be remembered for taking part in a conflict that had immense consequenses - their lives were part of securing freedom against a tyrannic system for the entire world. Under the leadership of a few good men! That is America at its best. That is the America that will NEVER be forgotten in Europe.

But young American men and women being sacrified in an idiotic war that never should have been inititated lacks honour and only holds evil tragedy.

This is a war crime beyond reasoning. And it's not least a war crime brought on by an American president on his own people. A president who will never be held responsible for his evil doings simply because America has lost its course.

It's sad - but that's why the death of your soldiers is now not at all honourable. America lost its course - and your young men and women pay the price, not the responsible politicians. They pay a very dear and completely unfair price. They die, while Geo is grilling at home at his farm, ignorant of his wrong-doings...

I pray and believe Barack can bring back sanity to American policy and that we can stop seeing American casualties every day. This is SO horrible. America doesn't deserve this!

I simply don't understand how you good people could re-elect Geo Bush... are you happy now? Does it make you feel "full of American patriotic honour"?

I'll never understand the Republicans in their intensity... but I do remember the last, respectable Republican, Ronald Reagan, who probably screwed up American internal policy, but who stopped the cold war, because it was his passion and because he was a good man. Unfortunately, he also paved the way for the Bushes (and I'm certain not to his liking), and so be it. There's certainly foreign policy wise much more similarity between Barack and Reagan than between so many others.

Let's hope Barack can stop all this war mongering soon, so we don't have to hear about "honourable" American casualties any more. It sickens me.

I love Americans... especially when they are alive!

H

[hankhavelock]

The reason I write this is because of an insane editorial on CNN with the speed-talking John King, who freaked totally out in orgasmic pleasure over a tacky Google-stunt, where they have mapped all dead Americans in the Afghan and Iraqi wars.

He REALLY got excited and said: "Just look up your own home town and see if there's any one there..." (meaning killed Americans...)

Talking about distastefulness... I actually respected CNN... this should have been on FOX...

I found it absolutely ridiculous and utterly respectless. I believed CNN was somewhat above this kind of socalled journalism. It made me feel sick.

H

[CreativeMind]

Hank, first of all, I couldn't possibly DISAGREE with your first post MORE. In my opinion, it's totally off-base. But I'll come back later and post a reply when I have more time. All in all, this seems to be less about Memorial Day, when we should be respectfully honoring those who gave their lives, and more about your continual anti-Bush hatred.

As to your second post here, before I run out for the day, you have the entire purpose for this web site wrong. Memorial Day is SUPPOSED to be about remembering those who served their country and who gave their lives for a greater good. And sadly, often too many people forget the stories that go along with those sacrifices. As a result, when something comes along that allows people to put faces and names together with incidents or stories...and it likewise gives them a chance to reflect or it allows them to gather information that they might not have known before...that's actually a GOOD thing. Again, because the whole POINT to something like Memorial Day is to REMEMBER those sacrifices. And to even learn from them.

That said, below is a link to a CNN article talking about this web site that you seem to find so distasteful Hank. While I didn't see the CNN report, I'm sure that John King wasn't "orgasmic" over dead soldiers -- what he was most likely happy about was the fact that there was now a hi-tech way for people to gather information if they were interested in finding out more about someone they know or lost track of...those that made sacrifices from their home town, etc. Here are select quotes from the article to show you what I'm talking about, Hank...

(CNN) -- Each year on Memorial Day, tens of thousands of Americans visit Arlington National Cemetery just outside Washington to pay tribute to the men and women who died serving the United States. For people who are unable to make the trip, a new online memorial provides a unique way to honor those service members who have fallen in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The new Google Earth layer, called Map the Fallen, enables the user to pinpoint where, when, and how each service member died since the beginning of the war in Afghanistan. A line connects the service member's approximate location of death to his or her hometown.

As the article notes (and in defense of John King against your odd interpretation of his attitude, Hank)...

"To honor is to remember and to pay tribute," says CNN's John King, who debuted the layer Sunday on State of the Union with John King. "Some of us probably don't know that someone we knew long ago went off to Iraq or Afghanistan and didn't come home. A click on a hometown might bring a sad surprise. Or maybe we do know, but aren't sure how to put this loss into context, or find a fitting way to pay tribute. With this new layer, help is just a few clicks away," says King.

WHY someone created it...

Sean Askay, a Google engineer with no military affiliation who developed the layer in his free time, explains the project on his blog. "I have created a map for Google Earth that will connect you with each of their stories -- you can see photos, learn about how they died, visit memorial Web sites with comments from friends and families, and explore the places they called home and where they died," he writes. Askay started working on this project about four years ago while in graduate school. He came across the Web site icasualties.org, and was drawn to the stories of the fallen troops. He chose to focus on the U.S. and coalition forces' deaths.

And lastly, note that others obviously don't share your feelings about this site, Hank...

For Karen Meredith, who found out about the death of her son, Lt. Ken Ballard, on Memorial Day five years ago, it is an emotional tribute that she is thrilled to see up and running. "It's so important to me for people to know about my son. I found out that Ken was the second person killed in Najaf [Iraq], and I didn't know that. That's what this demonstrated. It's a powerful amount of information," she told CNN. "I want people to know how Ken lived, not just how he died. And this program allows people to know about him," she said.

Kris Stonesifer is the third soldier on the map. He and fellow ranger John Edmunds were killed in a helicopter accident in Pakistan on October 19, 2001 -- part of the U.S. military effort in the Afghanistan war. Stonesifer's mother, Ruth, told CNN that this project is a reminder of the true meaning of Memorial Day, which she feels is often overlooked.


Here's the longer CNN article if anyone is interested in finding out more...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/05/24/m...fallen.troops/


And here is the web site created to honor those who gave their lives...

http://www.mapthefallen.org/


And on this Memorial Day, I'd just like to send out my prayers and thanks, as an American, to anyone else here who has a family member or friend who gave their lives in the service of their country. Today, my Dad will be marching with my Uncles to remember the time they served together lo those many years ago. And to be sure, I'm sure their thoughts and hearts will be on two of my other Uncles -- their own brothers -- who did give their lives in service. So, God rest their souls and God bless anyone else today who is likewise remembering the sacrifices of people from their lives.

[violet lightning]

I couldn't disagree more either, and actually take strong offense about what you posted.
Memorial Day to me, is when we as Americans honor our fallen soldiers who have died serving their country. It is not the same as Veteran's Day, where we honor and thank our men and women who haved served their country in wartime and in Peace.

Memorial Day is strictly for those who have died serving their country.
This includes soldiers from the Revolutionary War, where we won our independence as a nation, to the Civil War, where we fought to stay together as a nation, to World Wars I and II where we fought for our very existence as a nation, to Vietnam, Korea, The Gulf War and now the Wars on Terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan.

When we honor our fallen comrads, we honor their courage, duty and sacrifice, not their political views or those of their commanders.
Read any commendation for any Medal of Honor Winner, (most given posthumously), read one of those, and then tell me we shouldn't honor their memories and their sacrifice.
Tell a surviving member of a family who lost someone in Iraq or Afghanistan that their service or their death is dishonorable.
My grandfather served in World War I, my father and two Uncles served in World War II. All saw combat, and thank God all came back. My cousin wasn't so lucky in Vietnam. Say what you want about that war, and the men who conducted it, but I know many men and women, including my cousin, who served with honor and courage and paid the ultimate sacrifice.In my cousins case, he died trying to evacuate wounded on his second (voluntary) trip back. I know men and women who serve in the Middle East too. Some on 2nd and 3rd tours because they believe in what they are doing, and believe they are having a positive impact. They are all good people, with good hearts, and a strong sense of duty and sevice. But of course, those stories don't get told that much on CNN.
I can't and won't argue the merits of the Iraq War, or the war in Afghanistan. (though in both cases they were murdurous, repressive, tortuous regimes that set back women's rights a couple of centuries and in the case of Afghanistan destroyed priceless world archaeological treasures as well)

What I can argue is the motivations of the men and women who serve this country in our armed forces. They have VOLUNTEERED to put their lives on the line to protect all of us. Part of that duty is obeying your Commander-In- Chief, whether its George W. Bush or Barack Obama.
The men and women we honor today have done that and more. They have made the ultimate sacrifice that anyone can make. They died protecting their country, their families, their brothers and sisters in arms, and over 250,000 died protecting not just our freedom , but most of the worlds as well.
I think thats something worth remembering

PS: Map of the Fallen is an amazing project.
Hank, I appreciate that you love Americans, I just felt strongly about this one.

[tslust]

I had one grandfather serve in World War I. He and my other grandfather made bombers during World War II. Another man whom kinda adopted me as a grandkid served in World War II. He spent about two and a half years in a German POW camp. My dad served (stateside) during Veitnam. If he would've been sent over, he probably would've been killed. One of his brothers served in the Air Force. Many of my mom's uncles served in World War II as well. Some good friends of mine are in The Service now. I take it personally when someone tries to slander our soldiers' sacrifice.

Take this however you want: This is our[America's] day, if you don't like it tough shit!!

[transjen]

Looks like the goose stepping hail Bush bozos still love his BS war Jennifer

[The Conquistador]

Have any of you been to Iraq or Afghanistan? Have you seen firsthand what actually goes on over there? (And no, the TV, newspaper, internet etc. doesn't count) There is alot more than the media outlets will ever show, and alot of the troops that are/were over there are actually rebuilding the Iraqi infrastructure. I've seen the troops actually going to the schools to teach Iraqi children, helping the nationals get water purification stations and electrical systems up and running and rebuilding hospitals. We are also training the Iraqi and Afghani military to be more efficient in what they do and helping the police force to help maintain order. As much as you don't like it, there are people over there that are doing good and to disgrace our
soldiers who have paid the ultimate price is not cool at all. They are doing a job that I can guarantee that not alot of people would ever step up to the plate to do.

Hank, I am deeply saddened by your post. Please use a bit more discretion when posting.

[The Conquistador]

Hank, I'm sure Obama would tend to disagree with you. Take a gander at this article.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090525/...a_memorial_day

[Bisatinlover]

Hank,

Kindly move you political opinions to another forum and stop bashing our military and our government. What has happened in the past we cannot change. Maybe Obama can make it better so let's wait and see/

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by Bisatinlover

Hank,

Kindly move you political opinions to another forum and stop bashing our military and our government. What has happened in the past we cannot change. Maybe Obama can make it better so let's wait and see/

Yes, I certainly expect Obama to make it better, he cannot possibly do it worse. Besides, it's a free world (here at least) where criticism is not only a right but an obligation.

I'm not bashing your military - but yes, I'm bashing Geo Bush for what I consider a catastrophic presidency that has had a tremenduosly negative impact on the entire globe.

As for all the young women and men who have been killed in this unfortunate war, I pray for them. I'm sure they were all good soldiers who came into harms way - that's the total responsibility of your former administration who initiated an unwinnable war on false terms. The price for this insanity is now being payed by both Allied soldiers and civilians - THAT is the real tragedy!

I do, however, see a degree of point to CreativeMind's explanation that the Google site puts faces on the dead, so that they are not mere statistics. Point taken. None the less, not only American soldiers have died during this crazy war - others have too, both other Allied soldiers and certainly a vast amount of civilians. Why are they not represented? And no, I'm not talking about terrorists and criminals - they asked for it and good riddance.

If this Google site can actually make all us bystanders realize how painful war really is, then I guess it can have some usefulness. Unfortunately, I doubt that there is any such deeper political idea behind it.

Of course, I was fully aware that I would step on some good "patriotic" toes, when I made my posting, but unless we start viewing war in a different perspective, this globe is gonna go. As I also said, war can be a sad necessity - as it was when America had to enter WW2. If they hadn't, Western Europe might likely have fallen to a tyranny that would not only have been very bad news for Europe but also a serious national security issue for America.

But in the end there's no comparison between WW2 and the Iraq-war. Don't make the mistake of ever thinking that...

Peace!

H

[violet lightning]

Originally Posted by transjen

Looks like the goose stepping hail Bush bozos still love his BS war Jennifer

I'm a peace loving hippie at heart, but I have served and I do respect the military and those who serve.
Goose stepping? Do you realize how insulting a remark that really is?

I hate war! Most intelligent, sane people do. I hate what it does to people, to the spirit, to the planet, to the innocent.
Most, if not all Veterans hate war.
I personally don't think we should be in Iraq, but that wasn't the point of discussion was it?
Why is it, if I (or we) disagree with you on some points, that you feel its ok or funny to call me (us) a war-loving Nazi?
I thought this was a forum where we try to be tolerant, understanding, friendly and learn through sharing and open discussion.

I'm the one who's confused.

[transjen]

I have nothing agianst the troops as they are doing there duty the comment was not torward them, I was refering to the bozos who stood and cheered when a AWOL AIR NATIONAL GURAD president started this BS war with lies and turned and said how dare anyone question or dout our presdient and rember 9/11 and if you don't get in line then you are a pinko commie lover, Bush took a tragdy 9/11 and used it to get what ever he wanted while wraping themselves in the American flag while his follewers shouted hail Bush Jennifer

[violet lightning]

Hank, I totally respect your right to your opinion, and I probably agree with you more than you might think.
You have every right to debate the war; the reasons, the causes, the effects, the culprits, etc.
But I think you could do it openly, without having to connect that argument which is valid, to one obviously meant to be offensive. (At least to us "good patriots")
I think we can probably agree that the problem is the people and conditions that lead to war, not necessarily those that have to fight it.

Peace.

[violet lightning]

Ok, I think we all have some common goals.
I think we agree that the main way to end war is to make EVERYONE, especially heads of state and politicians, understand that war is just too costly in terms of everything to ever undertake.
Make them all sit and watch "The Fog of War", "The Day After" and "Two Women".
If the google map project could map out the dead from all wars, including combatants, civilians, and animals, it would be heartbreakingly clear.

[CreativeMind]

Originally Posted by transjen

I was refering to the bozos who stood and cheered when a AWOL AIR NATIONAL GURAD president started this BS war with lies and turned and said how dare anyone question or dout our presdient and rember 9/11 and if you don't get in line then you are a pinko commie lover, Bush took a tragdy 9/11 and used it to get what ever he wanted while wraping themselves in the American flag while his follewers shouted hail Bush Jennifer

You know, just for the record about Bush and this "BS war"...


"If Saddam rejects peace, we have to use force, our purpose is clear.
We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser

"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
--Letter to President Clinton signed by Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, and others

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-- Rep. Nancy Pelosi

"Hussein has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State

"Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement."
-- Barbara Boxer

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry


I'm just saying you should keep in mind that going back to the Clinton years most people thought Saddam was on the fast track to acquiring WMDs, and everyone...on BOTH sides of the political aisle...felt that inevitably he was going to have to be taken out by U.S. forces since the United Nations was once again acting like a bunch of clueless, ball-less diplomats -- which frankly, being the worthless sham that it is, is what the UN does best.

[transjen]

I may have let him slide on the WMD had he been upfront and said ok folks i was given bad info and i jumped to soon but no he kept saying they are there we just need more time and then he comes out and says we did it for the good of the people there the whole war was Bush's vandetta because of an idol threat made agianst the Bush clan in the early 90s, after the first towel was hit he wanted to invade Iraq, The tragic of 9'11 was his excuss Jennifer

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by violet lightning

Hank, I totally respect your right to your opinion, and I probably agree with you more than you might think.
You have every right to debate the war; the reasons, the causes, the effects, the culprits, etc.
But I think you could do it openly, without having to connect that argument which is valid, to one obviously meant to be offensive. (At least to us "good patriots")
I think we can probably agree that the problem is the people and conditions that lead to war, not necessarily those that have to fight it.

Peace.

I hope you realize, that I NEVER wanted to belittle the hazardous circumstances that the now gone American soldiers were put into. By a ridiculous administration who is now in retirement grilling steaks and laughing their macho asses off while their stupid wives walk around unfulfilled but with round mouths...

But don't mistake the whole world outside America, please. We have a slightly two-sided view on matters. Your American soldiers were brought to war to kill others, and I'm sure many of them did - effectively - even to the good of the socalled but rather devastated brand of socalled "Western Democrazy".

Had this been a truly "good and honest" war, then I'd never have stepped on anybody's Republican toes. How ever, this has all from the start been a nasty thing.

I don't think a single one of your soldiers should ever have died under these sad and corrupt circumstances, but fact is that they did. I don't think any one should have carried the terror of Geo Bush's insanity. The fact is, how ever, that so many did.

But, please, don't be naive sentimentalists... if you show up with M16s, then people shoot back - and they hit sometimes... hopefully you can find some comfort in the fact that you killed so much more...

War is evil and should be entered into cautiously. Unfortunately Geo Bush had his own ugly plan...

So as I suggested b4: Peace!

H

[twistedone]

As a veteran, oh hell, I won't get into it with you. All I can say is that you sure enjoy being disrespectful.

Oh, and how was it unjust? Congress, which includes Democrats and Republicans had to vote for it.

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

But there is a lot of sadness to it! Insane tragedy brought on by an insane presidential administration who did all this for their own evil purposes.

The American soldiers who lost their lives in WW2 will always be remembered for taking part in a conflict that had immense consequenses - their lives were part of securing freedom against a tyrannic system for the entire world. Under the leadership of a few good men! That is America at its best. That is the America that will NEVER be forgotten in Europe.

But young American men and women being sacrified in an idiotic war that never should have been inititated lacks honour and only holds evil tragedy.

This is a war crime beyond reasoning. And it's not least a war crime brought on by an American president on his own people. A president who will never be held responsible for his evil doings simply because America has lost its course.

It's sad - but that's why the death of your soldiers is now not at all honourable. America lost its course - and your young men and women pay the price, not the responsible politicians. They pay a very dear and completely unfair price. They die, while Geo is grilling at home at his farm, ignorant of his wrong-doings...

I pray and believe Barack can bring back sanity to American policy and that we can stop seeing American casualties every day. This is SO horrible. America doesn't deserve this!

I simply don't understand how you good people could re-elect Geo Bush... are you happy now? Does it make you feel "full of American patriotic honour"?

I'll never understand the Republicans in their intensity... but I do remember the last, respectable Republican, Ronald Reagan, who probably screwed up American internal policy, but who stopped the cold war, because it was his passion and because he was a good man. Unfortunately, he also paved the way for the Bushes (and I'm certain not to his liking), and so be it. There's certainly foreign policy wise much more similarity between Barack and Reagan than between so many others.

Let's hope Barack can stop all this war mongering soon, so we don't have to hear about "honourable" American casualties any more. It sickens me.

I love Americans... especially when they are alive!

H

[transjen]

Originally Posted by twistedone

Oh, and how was it unjust? Congress, which includes Democrats and Republicans had to vote for it.

I guess you forgot that the congress was lied to by a lieing little weasel named KING GEORGE Jennifer

[horizontal]

brit soldier from both afg and iraq disagrees with this nonsense.

soldiers are prepared to kill and risk the same, but we are there to do our best to bring killing to an end

iraq - right idea, wrong reasons, poor strategy, better outcome, hope for the future...thanks to the very many men and women of a few good armies, no thanks to a very few of them who were disgraced

afg - right idea, average strategy, getting better day by day, hope for the future, thanks to ...etc

it makes it all worthwhile when the elders and traders speak to us in private and beg us to stay, to extend the safe zones, and please dont leave

proud to be a soldier, proud of the youngsters i lead in horrible places in horrible circumstances, proud of the genuine good we have done, sad that young muslim lives are thrown at us by bigotted mad leaders who pontificate in the hills and madrasas

what have you done today to make you feel proud?

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by twistedone

...All I can say is that you sure enjoy being disrespectful...

Sir, where is it that I'm particularly disrespectful?

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Sir, where is it that I'm particularly disrespectful?

The very title of this thread is so disrespectful to the men and women who have served in my countries armed forces past present and future. It makes me hate you all the more Hank. You are the reason I rarely come here anymore. I asked of you a question many months ago and you never answered it so I'll ask again... who was it that signed the aid package to that armpit of a country you live in after the tsunamis? I truly wish you were washed away back then. If I saw you on the street tomorrow I'd lay you the fuck out. And the ghosts of dead soldiers of every country would cheer

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by Rachel

The very title of this thread is so disrespectful to the men and women who have served in my countries armed forces past present and future. It makes me hate you all the more Hank. You are the reason I rarely come here anymore. I asked of you a question many months ago and you never answered it so I'll ask again... who was it that signed the aid package to that armpit of a country you live in after the tsunamis? I truly wish you were washed away back then. If I saw you on the street tomorrow I'd lay you the fuck out. And the ghosts of dead soldiers of every country would cheer

I believe I answered: how much do you think your country makes on oil and mining rights from this country?

Aside from that I shall refrain from replying your post.

[tslust]

Originally Posted by horizontal

brit soldier from both afg and iraq disagrees with this nonsense.

soldiers are prepared to kill and risk the same, but we are there to do our best to bring killing to an end

iraq - right idea, wrong reasons, poor strategy, better outcome, hope for the future...thanks to the very many men and women of a few good armies, no thanks to a very few of them who were disgraced

afg - right idea, average strategy, getting better day by day, hope for the future, thanks to ...etc

it makes it all worthwhile when the elders and traders speak to us in private and beg us to stay, to extend the safe zones, and please dont leave

proud to be a soldier, proud of the youngsters i lead in horrible places in horrible circumstances, proud of the genuine good we have done, sad that young muslim lives are thrown at us by bigotted mad leaders who pontificate in the hills and madrasas

what have you done today to make you feel proud?

General Carl von Clausewitz points out "The War of a community - of whole Nations, and particularly of civilised Nations - always starts from a political condition, and is called forth by a political motive. It is, therefore, a political act." In Iraq, the politicians seemed to agree on reasons for invasion. The military went in and did their job. Hussein's government didn't surrender, it simply disolved. Then the politicians couldn't decide on when "combat operations" should end, also they couldn't agree on what the overall strategic goals should've been. That is why our soldiers are still in Iraq. Not for Bush, not for obama, not even for oil; but because of the scheming and squabbling politicians (from both parties).

[The Conquistador]

They say that the 2 things you should never discuss: Politics and Religion. Hank! You've been a naughty boy. Tsk tsk.

[TracyCoxx]

Hank, quit living in the past. Clinging on to Bush Derangement Syndrome for the rest of your life is just going to make you a sad bitter old man with a one track mind. It's already starting to go out of style as Bush's policies get replaced by new policies whose success or failure will be on their own merits. Quit feeling guilty for the misconceptions the people have where you are. You're not even an American. And I doubt any of Bush's cronies have bashed your door down to see if you up to something for Al Qaeda. If the people there think you're a Bush lover because you are white (at least I think you are?) or because your a bible thumper, that's not Bush's fault. I find it very odd that these matters weigh so heavily in your world. If so, Indonesia needs to get a life.

If you're concerned about a war monger, go gripe at North Korea. They're the ones with a bug up their ass right now.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Hank, quit living in the past. Clinging on to Bush Derangement Syndrome for the rest of your life is just going to make you a sad bitter old man with a one track mind. It's already starting to go out of style as Bush's policies get replaced by new policies whose success or failure will be on their own merits. Quit feeling guilty for the misconceptions the people have where you are. You're not even an American. And I doubt any of Bush's cronies have bashed your door down to see if you up to something for Al Qaeda. If the people there think you're a Bush lover because you are white (at least I think you are?) or because your a bible thumper, that's not Bush's fault. I find it very odd that these matters weigh so heavily in your world. If so, Indonesia needs to get a life.

If you're concerned about a war monger, go gripe at North Korea. They're the ones with a bug up their ass right now.

Ok... I'll try to shut up... and return to the mere discussions of transsexuality... that's more dear to me anyway... nobody bashed my doors in (well, some muslims did once, then I brought home a girl, but that's another story I shall not bother you with...). But where I live the radical muslims will come after me long b4 the now gone Geo and his paranoics... :-)

Peace!

H

[transjen]

If you forget about the past you are doomed to repeat it, I will never just stand back and say oh well what's done is done, The lieing little weasle Bush has never in his entire life has been held accountable for anything from drunk driving drug useage going AWOL bankrupting every bussiness he ran cheating the IRS on stock profits, All this before he stole an election his eight years in the White house should be investagated as the stuff he did in secert makes Richard Nixon look like a chour boy Jennifer

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by transjen

If you forget about the past you are doomed to repeat it, I will never just stand back and say oh well what's done is done, The lieing little weasle Bush has never in his entire life has been held accountable for anything from drunk driving drug useage going AWOL bankrupting every bussiness he ran cheating the IRS on stock profits, All this before he stole an election his eight years in the White house should be investagated as the stuff he did in secert makes Richard Nixon look like a chour boy Jennifer

I agree... but some one a further few messages up told me that he/she wold kill me, if the chance arose due to my initital posting and, hence, state of mind...

So I better keep my mouth shut. Unless I wanna be passed up on the street by some Geo Bush fanatic who believes in complete idiotic patriotism where the twisted ESSENCE of American militarism cannot be questioned at all... and certainly not challenged... these fanatics consider it their GOD GIVEN right to do as they please. If you as an American go kill people, then you are by some folks per definition a true American hero...

How violent, how strange and how sad... and how totally wrong...

There is an immense degree of nasty fascism lurking in your country, and I feel that these ppl will fight as hard for their position and, indeed, political passion as the militant muslims will.

This is not good at all... we're surrounded by stupid ppl with a complete lack of educaton and knowledge of "prudent foreign policy".

But all I can, again, say is:

Peace!

H