What do you think about who makes violence on the animals?

[Imbecille]

I think that they're beasts, it's not possible to make violence on innocent creatures.

[BuffyFan]

Sorry.
If science can slice up an animal to find a cure to anything I say do it.
If man didn't kill the mammoth for fur,they'd be dead.
So if killing a few minks makes a fur coat so be it. They don't add anything to the animal kingdom any way.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by BuffyFan

Sorry.
If science can slice up an animal to find a cure to anything I say do it.
If man didn't kill the mammoth for fur,they'd be dead.
So if killing a few minks makes a fur coat so be it. They don't add anything to the animal kingdom any way.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I rather read the initial question as one regarding cruelty to animals... which I'd hope most here are against...

[ziggybabie]

Originally Posted by BuffyFan

Sorry.
If science can slice up an animal to find a cure to anything I say do it.
If man didn't kill the mammoth for fur,they'd be dead.
So if killing a few minks makes a fur coat so be it. They don't add anything to the animal kingdom any way.

There is a HUGE difference between killing animals for survival or trying to find a cure and killing or torturing animals because 'Buffy' needs a fancy fur coat. 'Buffy' can choke on her caviaar.

on the subject of fur i have to say if the mink have been ethicly farmed and killed i don't see what the problem is, i don't agree with animal cruelty or hunting for fun, or the killing of any indangered species for any reason. but if someone is happy to eat meat or wear leather from one kind of farmed animal i don't see how they can have a problem woth fur.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by rhythmic delivery

on the subject of fur i have to say if the mink have been ethicly farmed and killed i don't see what the problem is, i don't agree with animal cruelty or hunting for fun, or the killing of any indangered species for any reason. but if someone is happy to eat meat or wear leather from one kind of farmed animal i don't see how they can have a problem woth fur.

I tend to agree with the basics of your statement here. The issue is exactly "ethicly farmed", as you mention. And that applies to every aspect also animals raised for the clothing industry.

[The Conquistador]

I only approve killing animals for 2 reasons
1)Survival as in food or for clothing(They usually go hand in hand)
2)For the good of people(such as a rabid or pissed off animal on a rampage or for finding a cure for life threatening ailments)

Anything other than that such as killing an animal for your own gratification only proves that you are a sick fuck who needs to be taken off of gods green earth.

[dirty30]

I mean you guys lost me here,i don't get it.??????????????????????????

[ila]

Originally Posted by dirty30

I mean you guys lost me here,i don't get it.??????????????????????????

This is the General Discussion forum. The purpose of which is:

"It's intended for chatting about everything EXCEPT shemales."

[Arthur]

The vegetarian is being savaged by the Lion on the African Savanna, turning helplessly to the game hunter he cries "do something, help me". The gamehunter puts two bullets into the vegetarian and puts him out of his misery, leaving the Lion to feast on the body. The game hunter was later reported to have said "It's what he would have wanted".

We could all live on a vegetarian diet, it would be better for our health and the health of the planet. When it comes to killing animals, as that little tale(tail)illustrates, you have to be careful what exactly you wish for. There are times when it is beneficial. I would draw the line on testing for cosmetic reasons which are the result of pride (see a lion pun), but when it comes down to health, or a natural inbalance (funny how animal cruelty is Ok when your house is infested with rats).

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

I tend to agree with the basics of your statement here. The issue is exactly "ethicly farmed", as you mention. And that applies to every aspect also animals raised for the clothing industry.

I hunt deer and pheasants. My Father hunted and I pass the traditions down to my sons. We eat what we harvest. Anyone who eats meat or wears leather is just having someone else do the dirty work for them. We find joy and excitement in the hunt as our ancesters did. We love getting back to nature and being out in the woods away from the rat race of society. I dont see why some people think it's ok to eat a farm raised animal but not harvest a wild one. Mankind has been a hunter since we first walked in a bipedal fashion. We are meant to be omnivores not herbivores. If some people cant understand it well I doubt if I can change your mind.

[Alvoris]

No violence on animals - any crimemaker has to be in a prison!

[Bionca]

I have been a vegetarian since I was 15. It is a strictly personal decision based on the fact I could not actually bring myself to kill the animal I was eating. I grew up on a farm and was literally devastated when I figured out that the animals we raised were food - Every spring I'd go out and give each of the new calves a name and they were like pets. So when I was 12 and old enough to help out with the slaughter it was like I was killing my friends. By 15 I simply couldn't bring myself to eat meat.

All that said, I have no issue with others eating meat. It makes dinner complicated in relationships with non-vegetarians *shrug*

[ila]

Up until my late teens I hunted and fished regularly. We were a non-affluent family and if I did not hunt and fish then we did not have anything more than vegetables to eat. I make no apologies to anyone for this. It was a matter of survival. I will say though that I never went hunting for the "sport" of it. It was always for something to eat. I used to go out with my friends and the agreement among us was that if we shot or snared anything we had to eat it. I have not hunted for many years now. It is not due to a change of conscience, but rather due to a change of financial circumstances. I would also rather not jump through all the hoops that one must do now in order to hunt.

[sesame]

I had been a vegetarian for 13 years. Indeed, this choice of food habit made my social life quite complicated. So I chose to be a non-veg and mingle with the rest of the 99.9999% of the population. In a dinner table people treated me as if I were an alien from Andromeda!
Anyway, I am considering Vegetarianism again (just because). I have no grudge against the meat eaters. Its a very ancient ethnic habit for human beings. We were hunters and gatherers in prehistoric times, remember? I have visited ancient tribes who live deep in the wilderness. For them, to be a hunter and live off the forest is the most natural thing. I totally agree with them and have great respect for their wild wisdom. Actually they are more natural beings than us. Urban people exploit nature and contaminate her knowingly or unknowingly. While, those ethnic hunters live in harmony with their ecosystem.

But yes, I disagree with those Jap whale hunters, Polar seal hunters, Tiger poachers who are hell bent on exterminating the most beautiful animals on Earth for Big Money! Let them be born as sewer rats in the next life.

[Rachel]

Now fishing... that is some real animal cruelty. We take a live fish or bug and impale it on a hook and send it out to swim around in a hopes of getting a larger fish to eat him. I love fishing by the way.

[ila]

Originally Posted by Rachel

Now fishing... that is some real animal cruelty. We take a live fish or bug and impale it on a hook and send it out to swim around in a hopes of getting a larger fish to eat him. I love fishing by the way.

I've never used live bait when I was fishing. I have used bacon rind and frozen minnows, but mostly just used a lure without any bait.

[Rachel]

Now cruelty to animals that is a whole nother subject. Bullfighting very cruel, yet socially acceptable in Mexico and Spain. Dogfighting and cock fighting theres another. Pointless animal experimentation I dont care for. In high school we had to dissect these frogs. Poor froggie never had a good life. To me that was wasteful and not respectful of life. I respect the game I hunt and teach my children the same ethics. We wait for a clean, sure shot in order to put an animal down as quickly and as humanely as possible. And yes, we do it for fun. The so called "sport" of it. We find it challenging to pit ourselves against the wits of a wily deer. They have better senses then we do and a few extra ones too.

[ila]

Originally Posted by ila

I will say though that I never went hunting for the "sport" of it.

Originally Posted by Rachel

We wait for a clean, sure shot in order to put an animal down as quickly and as humanely as possible. And yes, we do it for fun. The so called "sport" of it.

I should clarify my "sport" remark. What I mean by that is that I don't like to see someone go hunting just so they can hang up a set of antlers on their wall. If someone goes hunting for the primary purpose of eating what they catch or kill then I respect that.

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by ila

I should clarify my "sport" remark. What I mean by that is that I don't like to see someone go hunting just so they can hang up a set of antlers on their wall. If someone goes hunting for the primary purpose of eating what they catch or kill then I respect that.

I love deer antlers. They are natures art. No 2 sets alike. They all are treasures to behold to me and hold memories. Guess thats like having a big mounted fish on the wall? I look up at the wall and the memories of hunts past flood through. In late winter I walk the woods looking for shed antlers. Havent found any yet but I know people who have.

[ila]

Originally Posted by Rachel

I love deer antlers. They are natures art. No 2 sets alike. They all are treasures to behold to me and hold memories. Guess thats like having a big mounted fish on the wall? I look up at the wall and the memories of hunts past flood through. In late winter I walk the woods looking for shed antlers. Havent found any yet but I know people who have.

There's nothing wrong with hanging antlers on the wall. Whether you have found them on the ground or from an animal that you have killed. I'll never disagree with someone who shoots an animal for the meat and also hangs the antlers on the wall. What I don't like is someone that goes out to kill an animal just for the sake of killing it or to mount the head. I don't have any mounted fish on my walls. I don't think I would ever mount a fish because the taxidermy process doesn't save the meat and my purpose in catching a fish is to eat it.

[Rachel]

Not everyone who takes life respects it. I agree on certain points. Although some hunt just for heads there is always someone who wants the meat. In my state they have a program where you can donate deer meat to the soup kitchens. Although I'm from the East and have never been exposed to it, I know varmint hunting is big out West. The ranchers say that the prarie dog holes break the legs of their horses and cattle. I couldnt just shoot the little critters for that reason though. But then again, nothing in nature goes to waste. The crows and buzzards and foxes and coyotes get to eat well then.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by Rachel

I hunt deer and pheasants. My Father hunted and I pass the traditions down to my sons. We eat what we harvest. Anyone who eats meat or wears leather is just having someone else do the dirty work for them. We find joy and excitement in the hunt as our ancesters did. We love getting back to nature and being out in the woods away from the rat race of society. I dont see why some people think it's ok to eat a farm raised animal but not harvest a wild one. Mankind has been a hunter since we first walked in a bipedal fashion. We are meant to be omnivores not herbivores. If some people cant understand it well I doubt if I can change your mind.

I don't think my statement was in any way a criticism of people who hunt. It was certainly not intented to be. As long as the same ethical rules apply I cannot find any thing what so ever morally wrong with hunting or fishing.

[jimnaseum]

On my birthday two years ago I hit a deer in my car, right at dusk, curving down a hill. Two images in my head, one was the deer looking at me eye to eye, with the headlight shining up onto it's head, like a perfect photo of death, then, hooves upside down flying away from my car. It happened so quick, just a THUD and that frozen picture of a deer's head out of nowhere.
I grunted a little reaction right afterward, but to be honest, the car didn't swerve, there was nothing I could do, and it was more of a mental shock than a spiritual one.
I am middle of the road on hunting, medical experiments, rats, and hamburgers. In China they eat dogs, my sister has spent like $3,000 on her cat! (medical bills) But in general, anyone who is cruel to animals is sick. Like Jeffrey Dahmer sick.

Originally Posted by Imbecille

I think that they're beasts, it's not possible to make violence on innocent creatures.

have u do this or why ask u?

[Big_Willie]

I hate those people too, the same amount of pain should be inflicted on them too. Eye for an eye motherf*cker. You blew off a cat's leg? Let's chop off yours too, and see how funny that is...

Hunting - I'm against it, though not totally. If you eat what you kill, then it can be okay but only if you don't kill members of endangered species.
Medical research - until we come up with a better way to test stuff we can't do anything else. But I think there are more than enough desperate sick people who would be willing to undergo these tests. It would speed up the process and we wouldn't hurt innocent animals. But there's an other thing too. These animals are bred especially for research purposes, so I guess it's okay to experiment on them but the researchers should try to minimalize their suffering anyway. I mean, it's the same thing with those animals that are killed to feed us.
That's why I wish we had some of the technology from Star Trek, we could create food using only energy and do research using only advanced computer technology.

[sesame]

I think, deforestation is the bigger problem here.

Taking away the breeding grounds of tigers, elephants, rhinos, impalas, beers, wild-dogs... and so on, has pushed many species to the brink of extinction. The Govts. try to divert public attention from this land usurping programme and direct it to smaller problems like hunting and poaching.

Although poaching and senseless hunting for "SPORT" has lead to the extinction of many species of animals. Lets take the Tasmanian tigers (totally extinct), snow leopards(nearly extinct), Royal Bengal Tigers (very few living), Lions of Gujarat, W. African Black Rhino(very few left)... so on. Killing for manly sport has totally wiped out those fabulous Tasmanian tigers from the face of this planet. How sporting is that? You may find a few of their skins and stuffed bodies in private collection of hunters and museums, but not a single one alive.

Sadly all the images below belong to species that are either extinct or very nearly so. The African Wild dogs (they look like hyenas), the Australian Dingos(another wild dog), the snow leopard (white leopard), the famous Tasmanian tigers (those famished looking striped wolfish animals! Pity! ), Dodo(Birds that lived in Mauritius in the 1650s, people hunted every single one, eggs and all!).

[ila]

Originally Posted by sesame

Killing for manly sport has totally wiped out those fabulous Tasmanian tigers from the face of this planet. How sporting is that? You may find a few of their skins and stuffed bodies in private collection of hunters and museums, but not a single one alive.

You are not completely correct on this, Sesame. Tasmanian tigers were killed because they were considered dangerous to the sheep herds of Tasmania. I'm sure some were killed for the "sport" but mainly it was because they of the threat, real or not, to the sheep.

Recently scientists have discovered evidence that there may still be some Tasmanian tigers alive. It doesn't necessarily mean that there are enough for a sustainable population.

[Rachel]

Regulated sport hunting has never contributed to any animals going extinct. More so, my license dollars go to many programs that benefit all wildlife. Huge tracts of land are bought with license dollars. Management programs have boosted herd levels. Reintroduction of wild turkeys in my State has been a huge success. Unfortunately the term "hunter" is often misused. The correct word for those who break game laws is poacher. I also do not like to be lumped in with those who kill whales, club seals etc.

[sesame]

Originally Posted by ila

You are not completely correct on this, Sesame. Tasmanian tigers were killed because they were considered dangerous to the sheep herds of Tasmania. I'm sure some were killed for the "sport" but mainly it was because they of the threat, real or not, to the sheep.

Recently scientists have discovered evidence that there may still be some Tasmanian tigers alive. It doesn't necessarily mean that there are enough for a sustainable population.

Ila dear, you are full of bull... I mean, humour! If the scientists have "unearthed" evidence of living "thylacines" or Tasmanian Tigers, why dont they present some Live specimen in front of the world? Why are all the photographs of Thylacines in Black and White? Its simply because they killed the last one in 1936. Widespread hunting of the hapless aniwent on from the 1850s to 1936. There used to be huge Hunting parties back then. Scores of corpses of the poor beasts were hung upside down and their proud hunters took memento photos to remember the Grand occasion.

You may see some stuffed animals, some early photos and "artwork" on the Tasmanian Tigers below. Can you show me a current photo of that species, Ila?

[ila]

Originally Posted by sesame

You may see some stuffed animals, some early photos and "artwork" on the Tasmanian Tigers below. Can you show me a current photo of that species, Ila?

Originally Posted by ila

Recently scientists have discovered evidence that there may still be some Tasmanian tigers alive.

Sesame, you should learn to read. I never said that there are any current pictures. I said there is evidence that there may be Tasmanian tigers still alive. I watch National Geographic and Animal Planet. There have been shows in which scientists said they have found evidence that the tigers may still be alive. This doesn't necessarily mean that there are any left alive, however there may be.

[Rachel]

They may have found tracks or droppings indicating animals in the area. Doesnt mean you will ever see one. Most of these critters are Masters of evasion and can live right under your nose without ever being seen. And back in the 1800s there was "market hunting" no bag limits no size limits no laws. Modern sportsman lobbied for game laws to protect and conserve wildlife through seasons and bag limits and licensing. There is more wildlife in North America now then in the past 200 years.

[sesame]

Modern sportsman lobbied for game laws to protect and conserve wildlife through seasons and bag limits and licensing. There is more wildlife in North America now then in the past 200 years.

Please tell us about bag and size limits, Rachel!

By the way, Thylacines or Tasmanian Tigers belonged to Tasmania, an Island off the coast of Australia. There are none in N. America, never had been.

Just pulling your leg. But please do explain the Bag Lt. thing!

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by sesame

Please tell us about bag and size limits, Rachel!

By the way, Thylacines or Tasmanian Tigers belonged to Tasmania, an Island off the coast of Australia. There are none in N. America, never had been.

Just pulling your leg. But please do explain the Bag Lt. thing!

They have them all over the world now. Maybe you dont understand the term? means number of animals you can harvest.

[Rachel]

We used to have em here. They got pushed out through man's encroachment. Used to have those big jaguars here but now only in Mexico and s America. Have been reports of them coming back into Texas though.

[sesame]

Rachel,
I hope you are talking of Leopards...

Originally Posted by Rachel

Used to have those big jaguars here but now only in Mexico and s America. Have been reports of them coming back into Texas though.

... as Thylacines are strictly Aussy and dont resemble Jaguars; they are more like elongated, striped Wolves!

Anyway, talking of Jaguars or Leopards, I consider them more dangerous and cleverer than the Tigers. Tigers are huge, bulky and more powerful, but are not as cunning as the Leopards. By Leopards, I refer to Black Panther, Jaguar, Cheetah. By Tiger, I refer to Royal Bengal and such like.

Hey what do you think of the "In Betweens"?... Hybrids between races? Tigon, Litigon, Pumapard... Amazing magic of Nature!

[Rachel]

A leopard is a distinct species as are cheetahs and jaguars. A black panther is a color phase of a jaguar. The correct term would be spotted cats. And yes I meant jaguar.