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  #51  
Old 05-25-2008
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It is not that easy, societies - even the most so called modern ones - are still not ready to face these issues, because they are preoccupied with lots of other matters, so they tend to just look the other way...
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Old 05-25-2008
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/rant on pls
An innocent question; did you graduate with "contemporary history"?
The hooker issue is due to the porn industry. People mostly associate Tgs with sex icons.
And I know what you mean about the fanciful scenario of shemales trying to entice men by deception. "Tranny-surprise" and such like are very successful websites rooted to that fantasy.

Quote:
a mental problem at best, a sexual kink as worst
Modern society is still staggering on its weak legs. Its ignoring the issue of identity crisis. I would like to add here that:
For the general mass, the physical form is all that is true, the mental reality is still "not scientific enough". After all you cannot touch the mind, or see it or put it in a test tube! But may be, just may be there is a very slow shift towards acceptance of psychological concepts.

Last edited by sesame; 05-25-2008 at 08:01 PM.
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True True...
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Old 05-25-2008
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Thx sml-skr, buddy!
Now that "Miss Athena" is out of the scene, there's no point for me to hit my head on this thread anymore.
Adios, ciao, for sometime.
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Old 05-25-2008
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OK you guys are really sweet.. thanks

I graduated with a degree in Social Work, with a minor in Anthropology (don't ask).

The hooker issue is also in part because, well for lots of us it's the best option for money. Hormones aren't cheep and aren't covered by most insurance (particularly for the younger girls), any feminization surgeries are also VERY expensive and not covered. There is little legally that can be done if you get fired after anouncing you are going to transition, and having the appearance of a woman, but the paperwork of a man makes it hard to get a proper job. So, escorting is a way to get by, particularly for poor women. It's a catch 22, we are thought of as hookers and treated as such, we often have to become hookers because we can't get another job that would pay even close.

Science is actually starting to show some physical indications that gender identity is "hard wired" in the brain. A few years ago a doctor did autopsies on some post-op women and looked at their brains. He found that the structure of the brain was identical to genetic women's. The sample size was too small to make anything conclusive (only 6 people), but 100% of them had the same structural differances from male brains. For example, the portion of the brain that deals with language is larger in women than men, and the connections between the right and left sides are more developed in women. Given that the brain is fully developed well before sex organs are developed, this would seem to confirm that many transwomen are correct when we say we "have always been women".

The more this is studied as a medical condition rather than a "disorder", I think the more we will discover. The more we discover, the more comfortable people will be and the more people will understand that some girls are born with an innie and some are born with an outie.
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Old 05-25-2008
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As you say doctor.
In fact I believe that man and woman are not at all different. One is "just a hormone away" from the other. Poetically speaking.
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Old 05-25-2008
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Athena, I mean Bionca, au revoir my friend.
See you again in some 16 hours.
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Before I go... Whats that innie outie thing you just enounced?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sesame View Post
Before I go... Whats that innie outie thing you just enounced?
Genitalia (innie = vagina/outie = penis)

:D
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As you say doctor.
In fact I believe that man and woman are not at all different. One is "just a hormone away" from the other. Poetically speaking.
The theory of "Brain sex" is still pretty new, but it is being backed up with some pretty strong observations. It could be argued that gender is simply the way we are brought up, and there are plenty of men and women who do not conform to typical "male" and "female" behaviors who have no issue with their identity as a man or woman.

However, here is some pretty strong evidence from studying children that there is *something* to the idea that boys and girls relate to the world in a differing way. Not to mention some gendered behaviors that are held across cultures and times.
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Athena: goddess of wisdom, Minerva.
Pretty indepth stuff you are broadcasting, Bionca! I think these things should be made known to as many people as possible. But then only a few can digest this stuff.
People in general are happy go nescient. But the odd thing is that most have got an aversion towards knowledge!!!
Still it is a good thing to try and pass on the information.
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Old 05-25-2008
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By the way, I just remembered something. As embryos, all are born the same. Then after some foetal development, the boys and girls genitalia start to segregate into different organs from the same parent organ. And this much is true:
glans of penis=clitoris
testes=ovaries
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Also congrats on reaching the magic number of 41. That is of occult significance in this site.
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Old 05-26-2008
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I didn't really intend to get so "heavy" here, but I'm pleased that it's been so well received. I do agree that most people avoid learning things, particularly things that contradict tradition and time honored beliefs.

One theory as to how a person can have an identity contrary to their sex has to do with hormone levels in the womb after brain development and before sex expression. It is hard to prove because the adults who had been "estrogenated" would have to self-report to the DR conducting the study. It also fails to address transmen, since the same or similar washing of testosterone has not been seen to happen.

so umm... what happens with 41, aside from Life the universe and...everrything?
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Old 05-26-2008
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Everybody knows the magic number is really 42. Ask Douglas Adams.
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Dang my bad... I lost Nerd points

Farewell and thanks for all the fish...
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Isnt it "so long and thanx for all the fish".
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you made me get my copy and check . it is "Thanks" :D
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... and "so long"
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sorry for the slang
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  #71  
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Hi ppl, is anybody in the club? Am I too early or seriously late?
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What "Fishy" stuff is going on? All I know is that certain type of reptiles can change the sex of their eggs from male to female or vice-versa according to the need of the species. Cool huh? I think they just adjust the humidity and temperature during the incubation.
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I say wise-girl this sounds a little contradictory.
Quote:
how a person can have an identity contrary to their sex has to do with hormone levels in the womb after brain development and before sex expression
Since we know that sex is determined during the union of sperm and ovum. As the cellulor nuclei combine and fuse their genetic content during zygote formation, sex is determined by the type of chromosome in the donated sperm.
If the sperm is Y type, then the resulting cell will become XY (as the egg is always X) and a male baby will ensue.
If on the other scenario, the sperm is X type, the baby will be female or XX.
The rest of the nine months of pregnancy is just duplication of the same cell bearing the same resulting gene to form the millions of cells that construct this body. Although cells take up different functions and form different tissues and ultimately the various organs, etc. Brain cells, heart cells, bone cells, muscle cells and so on.
My point is sex is NOT determined after brain development, it is done immediately after the fusion of the sperm and ovum.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sesame View Post
I say wise-girl this sounds a little contradictory.

Since we know that sex is determined during the union of sperm and ovum. As the cellulor nuclei combine and fuse their genetic content during zygote formation, sex is determined by the type of chromosome in the donated sperm.
If the sperm is Y type, then the resulting cell will become XY (as the egg is always X) and a male baby will ensue.
If on the other scenario, the sperm is X type, the baby will be female or XX.
The rest of the nine months of pregnancy is just duplication of the same cell bearing the same resulting gene to form the millions of cells that construct this body. Although cells take up different functions and form different tissues and ultimately the various organs, etc. Brain cells, heart cells, bone cells, muscle cells and so on.
My point is sex is NOT determined after brain development, it is done immediately after the fusion of the sperm and ovum.
At it's most simple, yes. But XX/XY are not the only chromosome combinations, XXY and XYX for example, an estimated 20% of the population does not have a tidy XX/XY chromosome combination.

Even so, what I was talking about was called "estrogenation". The foetus, developing as normal, will sometimes be exposed to higher than normal levels of estrogen. The theory is this affects the way the foetal brain develops since this. Extreem estrogenation is thought to be one of the reasons for intersex births (children born with "ambiguous genitalia" or rarely hermaphrodytism). Perhaps a less extreem change in the hormonal soup that surrounds a developing foetus would cause the conditions that lead to Gender Identiy Disorder or Gender Dysphoria.

Good conversation.. I like this
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Old 05-26-2008
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Ya ya doctor, but not all that comes out of those luscious lips are true.
Exhibit some reliable references and I will agree. As I am offering you.
1) Prior to & during pregnancy, a hearty diet consisting of lots of sugar, rich in nutrients, Na (sodium), Ca (calcium), Vit-C, E, B12 increase chances of having a male child. ~ {study, published in the U.K. journal, the Proceedings of the Royal Society B. Related to: Fiona Mathews of the University of Exeter in England }
Actually this diet tampers the ph level , the acid-alkali balance is taken to an optimum condition which encourages the Y-gened-sperms to flourish easily inside the uterus. (and perhaps hinders the X-sperms?) (actually some sperms even meet the ovum inside the Fallopian tube!)
Ref site.

2) In ayurveda and yoga books some are of opinion that if the blood of the mother is Alkaline during mating, the child will be male; and acidic will lead to female.
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Sexual differentiation of the mammalian brain starts during fetal development and continues after birth (Kawata, 1995; Swaab et. al., 2001). It is hypothesised that in humans, in common with all other mammals studied, hormones significantly influence this dimorphic development although, at present, the exact mechanism is incompletely understood. It is also postulated that these hormonal effects occur at several critical periods of development of the sexual differentiation of the brain during which gender identity is established, initially during the fetal period, then around the time of birth; and also post-natally. Factors which may contribute to an altered hormone environment in the brain at the critical moments in its early development might include genetic influences (Landèn, 1999; Coolidge et. al, 2002) and/or medication, environmental influences (Diamond et. al., 1996; Whitten et. al., 2002), stress or trauma to the mother during pregnancy (Ward et. al., 2002; Swaab et. al., 2002).

http://www.gires.org.uk/Web_Page_Ass...ion_signed.htm

You seem to be making a point about biological sex. However, this is not the same as Gender. One's gender is part of their personal identity, the way we understand ourselves on a fundimental level. I'm not sure if you are making a point that Gender Dysphoria is has no biological cause or if you are stating that the male/female sex can be modified during gestation.
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In my last post I didnt say anything for or against alteration of or influence on human sexual behavior caused by hormonal disbalance or medicinal or chemical induction. What I said is that the embryo being male or female is just not a whim of nature, not some silly permutaion of genes, or "chance". It has a reason or science behind it. And the more we learn, the more we know about the laws of nature. Otherwise we humans would still be sitting in front of caves and eating raw meat from the last woolly mammoth hunt!
I also want you to know that I strongly believe: we are basically Human. Man is the same as woman, give and take a few hormones. Also, its all a matter of the mind. We are what we believe.
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Then we have essentially been talking about two different things. The cause of a person's sex (M/F) is understood to a greater degree, along with the host of variable X and Y chromsome combinations, than the cause of a person's gender. s gender simply a social construct? Are there biological differances aside from physicality between the sexes? What causes a person with a typical sex understand themselves to be a member of the other?

You are correct in that we are all human and individuals. Our commonalities are far greater than any differances.
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Old 05-27-2008
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Default My opinion on the matter...

Bionica I have to say after reading that rant, that if thats what you expect you are gonna be let down, its true what you are saying however we cant expect society to change like that. Instead to find happiness you find it in a few people who all understand you, if you think about it thats pretty much why this foruym exists. Many of us, I am assuming, probably don't reveal our love for transexuals to our family or friends. So we vent here, just like there are transexual clubs gay ckubs etc. The idea is think globablly act locally, in other words its good to have the viewpointsthat you have, (your idea about science needed to make a stand about the issue and all), but just try to consolidate it amongst a few good people. And if those people love you and care about you sal gooood, you know what i mean?

And Bionica I think you should no problem find someone good for you, by what I read in this thread you are a smart gal, your more than just a pretty face.

Anyways I hope you find what you are looking for
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Old 05-27-2008
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Quote:
The cause of a person's sex (M/F) is understood to a greater degree, along with the host of variable X and Y chromsome combinations, than the cause of a person's gender.
Summery: Sex and Gender are two different things according to you. Right?

Sex= the physical appearence aquired by birth
Gender= mental makeup which tells you whether you are male or female irrespective of the biological sexual organs you possess.

If the above is true, then YES, gender is psychological. It is an acquired condition, which is fully influenced by my personal history (experiences), social interaction, independent thinking, environment and of-course physical condition (including hormone balance prevailing the body)
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Quote:
Are there biological differances aside from physicality between the sexes
What do you mean by physicality? External physical appearence?
By biological differences you must include the internal organs and the hormones secreted or ingested; Because that can radically modify the physiological mechanism of a human being.
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Old 05-27-2008
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Old 05-27-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sesame View Post
What do you mean by physicality? External physical appearence?
By biological differences you must include the internal organs and the hormones secreted or ingested; Because that can radically modify the physiological mechanism of a human being.
BY physicality I'm talking about the differances in the body between men and women. Physical strength, Pain threshold, body hair, body fat distribution. The things that can be measured happening within the body. These differances are easy to see and understand - and sometimes modify by varying hormone levels.

The question being posed by some scientists is if gender identity has a physiological componant. It is hard to determine because we can only express identity in emotional or psychological terms "I FEEL like a woman", "I have never been COMFORTABLE as a man", "I don't RELATE to my body". The words sound subjective because science has not determined if, in fact, men and women are actually fundimentally different mentally and emotionally, or if our ideas of what it is to FEEL like a man/woman are purely artifical and used to prop up gender roles and "appropriate" gendered behaviors.

So far the best evidence is saying that our gender identity can be influenced by hormone levels in the womb, and also by post natal hormone levels. An example (that fits with the theme of this site) would be a Thai Ladyboy who identified as male, but due to economic reasons started to take hormones to make money as a "bar girl". Estrogen will affect us physically and emotionally and over a few years some "male identified" ladyboys will honestly say they "Feel like women" and some even opt for sex reassignment surgery or stay as a ladyboy long after their profitability as a "bar girl" is long past.

Still other (like myself) simply never considered that we were male. I'd tell everyone I was a girl, I'd get in arguements with adults who'd call me a boy. This was happening in very early childhood - before age 5. My mother even wrote my first teacher to warn her that "He sometimes thinks he's a girl". So, simply from my own history, the idea that high levels of estrogen were present as my brain was forming makes sence. Essentailly that Gender Identity as a physical/biological cause.
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Old 05-27-2008
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Default Ok, lets talk about Hormones

Ok, I cannot argue with your first hand experience. Whatever I say would only be scientific guesses compared to your real life experiences.
But one thing intrigues me though. Why do you focus so much on Oestrogen? Well, there are other female hormones too. Is it a general term for a cocktail of all major female hormones? Like:
Estrogen= A general term for female steroid sex hormones that are secreted by the ovary and responsible for typical female sexual characteristics.
As you must know, there are four major female hormones:
1)Oestrogen
3 sub-categories= (a)Estrodial from ovaries =main; (b) estrone from adrenal gland; (c)estriol from Lever.
And the rest are:
2)Progesterone
3)Follicle Stimulating Hormone
4)LH

What special import does estrogen have for the T-girls?
Is it because one of oestrogen's many properties is fat distribution on the hips, breasts, abdomen, thighs, buttocks and all such curvy areas that makes an ideal "soft bodied" female?

Last edited by sesame; 05-27-2008 at 05:02 PM.
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Yes, using Estrogen as a generic term. Most people understand Testosterone and Estrogen and that's where it stops. Estrogen is important to T-gals for the very reasons you mentioned with the addition of making the skin softer. This is taken along with anti-Androgens to lessen the production of testosterone. The lessening of testosterone has the effect of stopping male pattern baldness, eventually lessening and stopping the growth of body hair (except facial hair unfortunately) and allows the female hormones to work more effciently to feminize the body.
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Old 05-27-2008
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Bionca Bionca is offline
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Default Getting a little heavy?

Well to lighten the discussion a little, I did find some pics I had from a while ago. I'm not using my computer, so these are photos I sent to my brother.. he's such a sweet sillydork for keeping these.

The B&W one is from a brief try at modeling I did 3 years ago. Yes.. I was blond

The head shot (cropped to protect the innocent) was probably 6 years ago, when I first really started to pass. No surgeries yet.
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Old 05-27-2008
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hmm maybe with the pics this time...
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21304biancabw.jpg   meinthe gals.jpg  
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  #88  
Old 05-27-2008
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Default Damn!!!

Your Pretty Hot.... Wow
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  #89  
Old 05-28-2008
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OooooooooooooooHoooooooo!! (imagine the voice from Adam's Family cartoons)
A ravishing blonde!
And a kind looking angelic brunette!!
Are both of them you?
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Old 05-28-2008
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Tell me if you have other pictures elsewhere... I would love to see some more. Yeah, you Aphrodite! You have been hiding the real goodies from us for so long.
It is a crime to deprive us!
Show us more.... more.... now....your eyes are feeling heavy.....do as i say...( desperately trying to hypnotise you )

Last edited by sesame; 05-28-2008 at 12:38 AM.
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Old 05-28-2008
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Yes the blond was a silly attempy a few years ago to model ( don't we all try to model at some point). The face pic is really old, like 7 years old well before I started hormones and before my surgery. I'm sure you can see the guy features there under that (fake) hair.
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Old 05-28-2008
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I dont see nothin bad baby (answering in hip hop style)
Only words like delicious, attraction, magnetic and heavenly beauty are coming to my mind.
Quote:
I'm sure you can see the guy features there under that (fake) hair
Why, I don' see damn nothin Laidie!! Everythin is hot an' smoking around you.
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Old 05-28-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sesame View Post
Tell me if you have other pictures elsewhere... I would love to see some more. Yeah, you Aphrodite! You have been hiding the real goodies from us for so long.
It is a crime to deprive us!
Show us more.... more.... now....your eyes are feeling heavy.....do as i say...( desperately trying to hypnotise you )


too funny. A gal would be crazy to post to many pics on a site devoted to gals who are paid to look good. That and I've read comments about some stunning TGs here.. you all can be pretty critical.

That and I think I have posted 3x the viewing material as 99.9% of the rest of you
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Old 05-28-2008
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You've only 2 hot hot hot photographs to show us? Shame!
Or,
Its a pity that you have so scarce a collection!
Or,
Look into my eye, keep looking, you are feeling sleepy now... your eyes are so heavy... drowsy.... sleepy....you can only hear me as a voice in your head...do as I say... post all your hot, fashionable, pictures... now...do it... Yesssss....
Did I hypnotise you? So you are going to show us more, right?
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Old 05-28-2008
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Quote:
That and I think I have posted 3x the viewing material as 99.9% of the rest of you
What? Where? When? I did'nt see any? Have I been dreaming?
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Old 05-28-2008
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3x means THREE TIMES ... that was for all those people who have twisted minds.
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Old 05-28-2008
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Default Questions for the Wise Girl Bionca

  1. "post op pre op or Generic"
    What do they mean exactly? I wont mind if you go into details .:D


  2. Also what do the Tgs do with the voice problem. You know, a heavy husky voice is good for a guy but for a girl it should be shrill and melodious.. tuneful, may be ?
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Old 05-28-2008
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I could fly thousands miles for you baby!
You are so so so pretty and sweet!
I love you since ever.
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Old 05-28-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sesame View Post
  1. "post op pre op or Generic"
    What do they mean exactly? I wont mind if you go into details .:D


  2. Also what do the Tgs do with the voice problem. You know, a heavy husky voice is good for a guy but for a girl it should be shrill and melodious.. tuneful, may be ?
1) (a) Post-op girls are had surgery to convert the penis into a vagina. Mind you, there is no "cutting off" or removing, the penis is literally used to form the vagina (b) Pre-op is a girl who has not had the operation and still has a penis that may or may not function depending of hormones. (c) "generic".. I think you meant "Genetic" women - women who were assigned "female" as birth who do not have any gender Identity issues. (d) you forgot non-op gals.. girls who are happy with a transsexual body or realize they will probably never have enough money for genital surgey. The penis may or may nor be fully functional.

2) Pesonally, I passes for a woman mush easier on the phone.. just always sounded like my mom. But yes, lots of gals have husky or "camp" gay men's voices. Voice training with a vocal coach can really help.
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Old 05-28-2008
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Beautiful And Smart. If you ask me it can't get better.
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