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  #201  
Old 11-07-2008
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Originally Posted by hankhavelock View Post
So what have you decided? You swanky Americans with your (not so) reluctant approach (lately) to rule the world?
This sounds really condescending, and I don't appreciate it.
  #202  
Old 11-07-2008
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This sounds really condescending, and I don't appreciate it.
Well, what can I say... you'll get over it... and don't take me too seriously... ;-)
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  #203  
Old 11-07-2008
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And regarding why it is "brilliant" that a black man gets the presidency? Not only is that in itself of immense historical value for all non-whites (in the whole world), but it is a break with former times inherent racism and is very true to the original American spirit of no judgement based on any thing but talent.
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But that's the thing. If he did have talent and experience and has some kind of track record to his name (hopefully a good track record), then I wouldn't mind so much that he's president.
...

His experience? He's the least experienced person to become president in over 100 years. The only talent he has is in giving speeches. Make that reading speeches, he's pretty bad when he's ad libing. He'd make a better public relations person. But putting his lack of experience aside, and his call for 'change' and 'hope'. When you listen to what he says... There's nothing American to it.

So to your comment 'it is a break with former times inherent racism and is very true to the original American spirit of no judgement based on any thing but talent' is complete BS. He is president because of his race and not because of his talent. That is not the American way. That's the Affirmative Action way.
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TracyBaby, it would seem that the essense keeps escaping you... if you cannot grasp the importance of what has happened and if you cannot even in your right-wing little heart salute the beauty of it all, then I rest my case.
Ok, so for Hank's reason for why we need a black president regardless of experience or his political leanings is "beauty"... reason ascertained: because America just needs a black president.

Well I guess that about wraps it up. Kind of anti-climactic I'd say. For some reason I thought you had more depth than that.
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  #204  
Old 11-07-2008
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Well, what can I say... you'll get over it... and don't take me too seriously... ;-)
And you want to imply WE are full of ourselves? That's rich...
  #205  
Old 11-07-2008
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Ok, so for Hank's reason for why we need a black president regardless of experience or his political leanings is "beauty"... reason ascertained: because America just needs a black president.

Well I guess that about wraps it up. Kind of anti-climactic I'd say. For some reason I thought you had more depth than that.
Tracy, you hot goddess... I'm about as deep as a burned out pan cake without a pan... ;-)

No, you just keep insisting on your own agenda and repeating the same old ultra right wing stuff no matter what I say, so I figured it better to just let it rest.

BLACK POWER! ;-)

I still adore you, though!

Malcolm XXX
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  #206  
Old 11-07-2008
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And you want to imply WE are full of ourselves? That's rich...
No, I realize my answer to you was inappropriate and could be perceived as arrogant. I'm sorry. I'm actually a kinda nice guy and only leisurely arrogant :-) So I mean it, sorry if I offended you.

In my initial post I'm not critisizing America - merely attacking the latent fascism that I believe the Bush administration has been an exponent for. I believe I have given ample examples in other postings in this thread regarding my particular views in this regard, so I shall not bore you further with that.

That said, your own comment was kinda short and angry. None the less, my correct answer should, of course, have been as said just above.

Peace!

H

PS: Bear with me, please! English is NOT my first language, so I struggle along to make myself comprehensible.
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  #207  
Old 11-07-2008
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If it's your opinion, fine. But if you've allowed yourself to be influenced by the opinions of, oh, the rest of the world about Bush (who, though many of us dislike, is not the SOLE reason for all of our problems) you should step back and reconsider how informed you really may be.
  #208  
Old 11-07-2008
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If it's your opinion, fine. But if you've allowed yourself to be influenced by the opinions of, oh, the rest of the world about Bush (who, though many of us dislike, is not the SOLE reason for all of our problems) you should step back and reconsider how informed you really may be.
Shouldn't we all? Point taken and thanks for enlightening me. Now peace and stop! Ok?
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  #209  
Old 12-11-2008
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Lemme pull this thread out of the HISTORY file to say how thrilled I am at Obama's choices for cabinet, etc. so far. When McCain chose Palin and Obama chose Biden, I was re-assured except for Biden's age, I'm not sure he can slip right in after 8 years and make CHANGE a 16 year dynasty. The SHARP selections he has made so far ...even though I'm not savvy enough to know any details, I know enough to see he's surrounding himself with supersmart people, agreed by everyone, I get a real good feeling that stuff is actually going to get done here in the States. Good stuff.
  #210  
Old 12-12-2008
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I also see some interesting things happening. People like Hank who are constantly harassed by his friends in Indonesia because he is white, and therefore must be accused of being a fascist Bush lover will no doubt be pleased to see that their savior Obama has kept Bush's Secretary of Defense. Obama the pacifist also will take our troops back to Afghanistan, and has made threats against Pakistan, and after being given the cold shoulder by Iran has vowed to deliver a 'devistating U.S. nuclear response against Iran' if Iran attacks Israel. Oh, and he says he will negotiate with Iran and offered economic aid if they agreed to drop their nuclear program. In other words, he's not dumb enough to follow his campaign promise of sitting at the table with Iran without preconditions.

On the socialism front, Obama says he will not increase taxes on the rich at this time. Apparently he's not dumb enough to follow the economic strategies he's campaigned on.

He is dumb enough to assign Daschle as secretary of Health & Human Services though.
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  #211  
Old 12-12-2008
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I'm gunna go out on a limb and I'm sure I'll get banned for it so fuck it, here goes:
Barak Hussein Obama is going to be a horrific president for the United States but he is exactly what the world outside of which needs. He will bring out changes to America that will destroy the individualist capitalist nature of the people who founded it. He has already chosen the socialist cabinet that Bill Clinton chose when he was in office, save for the Sec. of Defense. All his talk about ending the war in Iraq was a lie because he knows he cannot afford to "lose" the war in name only because it will be bad for his party. He will destroy the medical establishment by prohibiting those who have payed in to the system their whole lives the ability to access it (ie- in socialist countries you are rationed healthcare, the elderly will be the first to be cancelled out). Barak Obama will ignore overt threats from the Russian federation and the Chinese "republic" all the while making the military a shadow of its former self, while claiming support for it and screaming that he supports them and all their missions or what ever but he will make them weaker and tie their hands in the face of those terrorists and authoritarian governemnts that do not restrict their soldiers. Only in modern America are soldiers tried for "war crimes" committed in the commission of their duties. I could probably go on but this is almost assuredly going to be edited by someone already. The fact of the matter is that Obama was elected because he was not a republican. George Bush was not a far right winger, he said it himself that he should govern from the center. In fact all his bailouts are testimony to the fact he is more socialist than any president ever. Obama was born black. What a freakin accomplishment. When people bash Sarah Palin, the epitomy of womanhood, they say she's a governor, Obama is a senator, as if her executive experience was nothing and his senatorial experience, his 1 term senatorial experience, was something so unbelievably great... I had a friend who was supposed to be quite intelligent and open minded. Well, I deduced after the fact that he did not want to vote for a republican, no matter what. If a perfect candidate in everyone's point of view ran against Obama but s/he called him/herself a republican, that person would have lost. Now then, I'll go back to looking for big dick shemales cause I'm a damned pervert and that's what gets me off... Just remember that when the muslim extremists take over, those of us who like what we all know we do will be among the first to go because we are the abominations to them. God help us all... BTW, no more blog rage, I won't even be reading it...
  #212  
Old 12-12-2008
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Jeez, talk about your sore losers, McCain himself said that Obama has picked some marvelous people for his cabinet on the Letterman show tonight! Get over it! There are more Mexicans than Goldwater Republicans in the USA now. Knock off this "American Dream" crap and taste the new American Reality.
If you want to be taken seriously don't mention Sarah Palin. You betcha!
  #213  
Old 12-12-2008
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Jeez, talk about your sore losers, McCain himself said that Obama has picked some marvelous people for his cabinet on the Letterman show tonight!
No surprise there. McCain is unable to make a criticism of his former opponent in anything larger than a campaign rally. That cream-puff persona did nothing to get himself elected.

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Get over it! There are more Mexicans than Goldwater Republicans in the USA now. Knock off this "American Dream" crap and taste the new American Reality.
If you want to be taken seriously don't mention Sarah Palin. You betcha!
What's wrong with the American Dream? I'd take that over the Mexican Dream any day.
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  #214  
Old 12-12-2008
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First of all, let me say, I don't like to mix politics with sex. They make very weird and twisted bed fellows. More so than I. LOL

About President elect Obama. In my book, the jury is still out on him, I'm taking a wait and see attitude. This may seem untrusting, however in my book, politicians in general, regardless of their party affiliation are untrustworthy. They all have their own agendas, and its screw the common man over as much as they can. When it comes to the honesty of our politicians, I ask myself this age old question. "How can you tell if a politician is lying? His lips are moving".

I am not going to say I'm a Bush fan either. I knew there would be trouble from him the moment he took his election results to the U.S. Supreme Court to win his first term. I didn't like him then, still don't know. But for that matter, I disliked both Gore and Kerry. And still do, and I certainly didn't want Hilliary Clinton in office either. I still have a sour taste in my mouth from the Clinton years, and some of the stunts he pulled. I'm hoping not to have a repeat performance with Obama.

I'll be the first to say I'm glad Bush is leaving, good riddance to bad rubbish. He's created more turmoil in this world than any terrorist could ever hope to achieve. Time for national and global stability, as well as amends to be made to countries that were insulted by Bush.

Citizens of the other countries, may I remind you, not every American supported Bush, not every American supported his policies, and certainly not every American ignored the fact that we were turning other countries against us. More Americans care than you realize.

To my fellow Americans. I've said this before, this is my story and I'm stickin to it. The government has failed us. But worst of all, we failed ourselves. Our government is of the people, by the people, and for the people. We are the government. Lets look and see what we DIDN'T do that caused our current predicament. Lets take responsibility to ensure it never happens again.

Last edited by twistedone; 12-12-2008 at 12:34 PM.
  #215  
Old 12-12-2008
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When I was in Elementary School, it was W.A.S.P. all the way. It was great. Drug users, homos, Commies, beatniks, they all fell under the heading of "common criminals" and Blacks had their own little neighborhoods.
Right and wrong, law and order, you didn't even have to lock your doors at night. Even in the cities.
That's all changed now. Ozzie and Harriet are still around, but they've got money and live in Oklahoma.
"Leave it to Beaver" will always be my favorite TV show, but I can't deny that what's fair is fair and right is right.
Blacks, Gays, Legal Immigrants, and yes even Transsexuals deserve a piece of the American Pie.
If Obama doesn't deliver, vote him out! But I've got a real feeling that people are going to become believers.
  #216  
Old 12-12-2008
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White supremacy isn't what I think of when I think of the American Dream. When I think of the American Dream, I'm thinking of opportunities being available to anyone who works hard enough for it. I know it hasn't always been that way for all races, but it should be. That doesn't mean there should be affirmative action programs. But opportunities in the US should be made available to any legal US citizen who strives to achieve those opportunities.

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If Obama doesn't deliver, vote him out! But I've got a real feeling that people are going to become believers.
How do you see Obama delivering? By giving handouts to those who haven't worked for what he will give them?
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  #217  
Old 12-12-2008
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By giving the Middle Class a level playing field. The middle class does all the work and pays all the taxes. When Tyrone buys a Coke he pays the Coca Cola Co's taxes. He pays the bottler's taxes. He pays the truck driver's taxes. He pays state tax, federal tax. If Tyrone ain't got no job, he's going to get high and rob a house. Maybe your house. Tyrone's going to go to jail so you can pay for that too.
  #218  
Old 12-13-2008
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Jeez, talk about your sore losers, McCain himself said that Obama has picked some marvelous people for his cabinet on the Letterman show tonight! Get over it! There are more Mexicans than Goldwater Republicans in the USA now. Knock off this "American Dream" crap and taste the new American Reality.
If you want to be taken seriously don't mention Sarah Palin. You betcha!
Hehehe... well said!

And hopefully this marks the death of ultra conservatism in a way similar to what happened to communism a decade or two ago.

Time for a much more blended mindset - a wonderful shift of paradigm.

And in the end, isn't that truly what the socalled "American Dream" is all about? I mean, before it was hijacked by the military fascists who sort of indicate that to be a TRUE American with hand on heart, tears in the eyes and gun (and sexuality) in the closet you MUST be an ultra right winger believing in the "small-town-set" of values?

Hopefully all that will fade away and die out with the current believers.

Peace!

H
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  #219  
Old 12-13-2008
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Hey Hank! Who was it that ordered all that aid to your country after the tsunami?
  #220  
Old 12-14-2008
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Originally Posted by jimnaseum View Post
Jeez, talk about your sore losers, McCain himself said that Obama has picked some marvelous people for his cabinet on the Letterman show tonight! Get over it! There are more Mexicans than Goldwater Republicans in the USA now. Knock off this "American Dream" crap and taste the new American Reality. If you want to be taken seriously don't mention Sarah Palin. You betcha!
First of all, who cares what McCain has said or thinks? Certainly not anyone on the Right. For crying out loud, those of us who ARE Republicans were actually PISSED at McCain for NOT going after Obama hard enough during the election. As tiresome as it was to hear McCain sounding like a truly old man -- constantly saying "My Friends" every time he spoke -- what REALLY rubbed people on the Right the wrong way was that McCain spent as much time kissing Obama's ass as the media did. Frankly, McCain LOST my vote when one day -- about 2 or 3 weeks out from the election -- he was giving a speech in Ohio and someone got up and said something negative about Obama, which the crowd cheered on. But then in a truly stupefying political moment, McCain turned to the person (and the crowd) and actually said "Senator Obama is a good man. You have nothing to fear from an Obama presidency." And that's the fucking tone he had WHILE THE RACE WAS STILL ON. Frankly, the ONLY reason I voted for McCain was BECAUSE of Sarah Palin.

Then again, I felt bad for McCain. He was truly in a no-win situation. All along he realized he was up against a historic tide where obviously so many African-Americans were going to come out in force in order to elect Obama, all so they could put the first Black president in office. And the joke of that? Howard Stern did an amazing bit on the radio where he sent someone up to Harlem to ask people on the street WHY they were voting for Obama. At which point, the person would read off a list of various political positions to the people, to which they would get excited and say: "That's right! That's exactly what I believe, too! Barack's political positions are totally in tune with what I believe!"...

...The joke being, of course, that literally ALL of the statements that were read to the people were McCAIN's political positions on the issues.

As for Palin, I wouldn't be so dismissive of her if I were you. She's certainly going to be a future force to be reckoned with. You can betcha that.

First of all, SHE is what energized the Right wing base and even made it a race. SHE is what brought the Republicans and Conservatives together -- NOT McCain. Which brings us full circle to why no one on the right cares that McCain supports Obama's cabinet choices on Letterman -- Hell, McCain even being back on Letterman, once again to praise Obama, just shows how spineless he's now become in the end, how appeasing McCain has become about just wanting to be liked in the aftermath of things. If anything, Palin showed the most spine and character by now telling Oprah to fuck off and to pound any interview requests up her ass, after the way Oprah snubbed her during the actual race.

And second, keep these thoughts in mind, too. A recent poll showed that Palin remains the overwhelming choice of Republicans to run the next time around, only this time at the TOP of the ticket. But even more interesting was another poll recently showed that a whopping and truly astounding 78% of the American voters -- we're talking nearly 8 out of 10 voters, regardless of which side of the political aisle they come from -- felt Sarah Palin had been treated UNFAIRLY by the media and she did NOT get fair coverage at all during the election. An astounding 8 out of 10 people, now post-election, feel the media did not do it's job and they showed a clear bias. Which means the next time around, people are NOT going to let the media get away with the smear tactics they did this time...nor will they let the media whitewash the Obama side of things.

In fact, here's another interesting note: the glow is clearly off Obama already. A poll released this weekend showed Obama's approval rating was now down to 65%. On the surface, that might sound high and good -- but keep in mind that with a country essentially split at this point between those who lean Right and those who lean Left, that means Obama now only has a 15 point margin before he hits the tipping point where literally HALF of the country would be AGAINST him. A lot of Obama's fall from grace has to do with the economy (polls show people don't think he's taking an active enough role in things), plus the Illinois Senate seat-selling scandal is also contributing to things.

Plus, it's become obvious that many reporters are now vocally...and FINALLY...asking tough and honest questions about "what" Obama knew with regards to the dirty politics that went on in Chicago (as a Congressman and then a Senator). And as one commentator put it today on the news, this scandal - as more and more dirt and names come out -- is now threatening the tarnish the inauguration. Plus, when Obama gets sworn in in January...and the economy is then still utter shit in February, with more and more people still being laid off...the general public won't be blaming Bush anymore. They'll be looking right at the Oval Office and the Democratically controlled Congress and saying "Okay, NOW we start blaming YOU."
  #221  
Old 12-14-2008
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Originally Posted by jimnaseum View Post
When I was in Elementary School, it was W.A.S.P. all the way...That's all changed now. Ozzie and Harriet are still around, but they've got money and live in Oklahoma. "Leave it to Beaver" will always be my favorite TV show, but I can't deny that what's fair is fair and right is right. Blacks, Gays, Legal Immigrants, and yes even Transsexuals deserve a piece of the American Pie. If Obama doesn't deliver, vote him out! But I've got a real feeling that people are going to become believers.
And yet the total irony to your statement is that it WAS the Black and Hispanic communities that turned out in droves on election day and squashed Gay marriage in the California election. THEY were the ones who became the deciding factor, not W.A.S.P.y white people.

Gee, I guess Obama's "more fair and tolerant" America is gonna need some retooling already, eh?
  #222  
Old 12-14-2008
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And yet the total irony to your statement is that it WAS the Black and Hispanic communities that turned out in droves on election day and squashed Gay marriage in the California election. THEY were the ones who became the deciding factor, not W.A.S.P.y white people.

Gee, I guess Obama's "more fair and tolerant" America is gonna need some retooling already, eh?
As they say, "Time will tell".
  #223  
Old 12-14-2008
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First of all.........
An excellent post CreativeMind. I'm glad to see a more in-depth analysis of events both pre and post election.
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Old 12-14-2008
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Apparently Creativemind worships the Limbaugh-Palin reactionary mentality. McCain was simply trying to be a decent human being trying to calm down the hate filled uber conservatives on the right. Palin is a dark dangerous cloud on the horizon. If this country is to survive as a free accepting society we need to foster reason and humanity.
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  #225  
Old 12-14-2008
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By giving the Middle Class a level playing field. The middle class does all the work and pays all the taxes. When Tyrone buys a Coke he pays the Coca Cola Co's taxes. He pays the bottler's taxes. He pays the truck driver's taxes. He pays state tax, federal tax. If Tyrone ain't got no job, he's going to get high and rob a house. Maybe your house. Tyrone's going to go to jail so you can pay for that too.
Why would Tyrone get high and rob a house if he loses his job? My dad lost his job. I have a friend who lost his job. They don't get high and rob someone's house. They do whatever they can to find work, any kind of work, and make it work somehow, until they can find a job that will pay the bills. Maybe Tyrone needs to be in jail.
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  #226  
Old 12-14-2008
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In Europe past a hundred years ago, leaders were like Fathers, their decisions were based on the preserving the "fabric" of the society. People wanted a leader they could bow down to, or salute, not some elected civil servant.
The President should represent ALL of the citizens, not just the Bill OReilly half, I'm glad you love your dads, I'm glad Ann Coulter's dad treated her like a little princess, I'm glad you are proud of half the Country.
If I were you I'd be a Republican too. But COME ON!!! Dwight Eisenhower would throw up if he saw the GOP now. Sarah Palin?
Obama was president of the Harvard Law Review. This is a Nation of Laws. People are People. History is never wrong. You knuckleheads have the right to think anything you want. Jesus was right, but he could have used a good lawyer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4dsB4F6puM
  #227  
Old 12-15-2008
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In Europe past a hundred years ago, leaders were like Fathers, their decisions were based on the preserving the "fabric" of the society. People wanted a leader they could bow down to, or salute, not some elected civil servant.
Europe can keep their kings and Hitlers.

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The President should represent ALL of the citizens, not just the Bill OReilly half,
And not just of 13.4% of society either.

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I'm glad you love your dads, I'm glad Ann Coulter's dad treated her like a little princess, I'm glad you are proud of half the Country.
If I were you I'd be a Republican too. But COME ON!!! Dwight Eisenhower would throw up if he saw the GOP now. Sarah Palin?
Obama was president of the Harvard Law Review. This is a Nation of Laws. People are People. History is never wrong. You knuckleheads have the right to think anything you want. Jesus was right, but he could have used a good lawyer.
Jesus who? That guy from 2000 years ago? I'm not concerned with him. I am also not a Republican (i.e. not a bible thumper and not socially conservative). What have I said that you object to? That I don't support affirmative action? That I think someone who gets high and robs people when the chips are down rather than working to become a productive member of society should be in jail? I doubt HALF of America believes people should not be held accountable for their actions.
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  #228  
Old 12-15-2008
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To be honest for a minute, Tracy, I think we've roamed into the PERSONAL area here, where it's about winning an argument.
I think all people have positive characteristics like intelligence, faith, honor, empathy, charity, hope, happiness, the list goes on, all the stuff that makes life worth living. But every INDIVIDUAL has 4 or 5 defects, ..personality flaw, sin, physical disability, foolish pride, laziness, whatever, that define who that person is. I'd say most people go to there grave with some of them that are deeply ingrained in their personality.
These FLAWS will not be litigated away by the Supreme Court. Or by who is President.
But a robust economy can put people to work. A sound foreign policy can prevent nuclear war. A medical plan like Europe can heal people! And social security can insure people a basic human dignity when they get too old to work.
Carrying your own weight, keeping what's yours, that was a real good plan years ago when this country was being built. It's called survival. But corrupt oilmen and Wall St Traders are mutating "self-reliance" into "legally stealing" and this country has to guarantee each citizen a realistic plan for equal opportunity. To Thrive. It's called survival.
I am proud of this country for electing Barack Obama. Bush was a goddamn liar. Debate that!
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Old 12-15-2008
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And yet the total irony to your statement is that it WAS the Black and Hispanic communities that turned out in droves on election day and squashed Gay marriage in the California election. THEY were the ones who became the deciding factor, not W.A.S.P.y white people.

Gee, I guess Obama's "more fair and tolerant" America is gonna need some retooling already, eh?
Blacks voted 70% in favor of prop 8, Hispanics roughly 56%. Blacks account for 6-10% of the voting population in California. Could blacks and Hispanics have turned he tide in such a close election? sure. However I think a 50% voter turnout in San Fran, 65% of married people, 81% of Protestants and Evangelicals, 64% of Catholics, 68% of voters 65+ are just as worthy of blame. The hundreds of thousands of dollars from the VERY white Mormon church could have had a little to do with it.

Also, the lack of coalition building from within the G&L movement. The assumption that blacks and Hispanics would just vote the way they wanted. The quickness the "black church" ot blamed the day after election day. The freedom with which the "N" word got used in West Hollywood. That tells me that maybe there needs to be some reflection and some serious thought. It's not a myth that the national GLb...t groups are seen as male, white, wealthy, not trans* - it's because the gay white boys really like to throw their own party (with their cis-lesbian sisters as backup)
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  #230  
Old 12-15-2008
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To be honest for a minute, Tracy, I think we've roamed into the PERSONAL area here, where it's about winning an argument.
I think all people have positive characteristics like intelligence, faith, honor, empathy, charity, hope, happiness, the list goes on, all the stuff that makes life worth living. But every INDIVIDUAL has 4 or 5 defects, ..personality flaw, sin, physical disability, foolish pride, laziness, whatever, that define who that person is. I'd say most people go to there grave with some of them that are deeply ingrained in their personality.
Well personally sure I would love for the government to pay for my health care, and pay for my housing, etc etc... But I'm realistic. I'm thinking how policies like this would translate into the real world. And it looks something like tax payers owing $700 billion to bail out Wall Street because 2 democrat presidents and fanatical left wing political groups like ACORN thought it would be a good idea to give loans to people who did not have a way to pay the loans back. You know... level the playing field... spread the wealth. It sounds so noble. But think beyond yourself for a minute and look at the big picture. The $700 billion bailout is only the beginning. As you can see with the auto industry. They want theirs. Some other industry will be next. This is madness.

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These FLAWS will not be litigated away by the Supreme Court. Or by who is President.
But a robust economy can put people to work. A sound foreign policy can prevent nuclear war. A medical plan like Europe can heal people! And social security can insure people a basic human dignity when they get too old to work.
Carrying your own weight, keeping what's yours, that was a real good plan years ago when this country was being built. It's called survival. But corrupt oilmen and Wall St Traders are mutating "self-reliance" into "legally stealing" and this country has to guarantee each citizen a realistic plan for equal opportunity. To Thrive. It's called survival.
I am proud of this country for electing Barack Obama. Bush was a goddamn liar. Debate that!
I would be happy to. Start a new thread if you want to get into that. As for the rest, no thanks. I've seen how Jimmy Carter almost ruined this country with his socialist mentality (i.e. over 10 percent unemployment, double digit inflation rates, double digit interest rates, gas lines). Then along comes Reagan with his economically conservative policies and completely reverses all of that. It wasn't that long ago. Why wouldn't it work now?

You forget one thing about Europe's socialist health care. They make use of medicines and surgical procedures developed here in the US. If the US mirrors European health care, then there will be no source of innovation like we have now.
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  #231  
Old 12-16-2008
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You win Tracy, you're right. You've worn me down, I can't fight anymore.
Palin-Palin 2012. Drill Baby Drill!
  #232  
Old 12-16-2008
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Geez, first Obama, now Palin? Your voting card should be revoked
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  #233  
Old 12-18-2008
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Hank! This swanky American is still waiting for you to reply to my question!
  #234  
Old 01-19-2009
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Hank! This swanky American is still waiting for you to reply to my question!
As so many did, you chose to take my initial question as a general critique of America - some Americans tend to react that way... maybe for a good reason.

Well, it wasn't. Merely a critique of Geo Bush and his corrupt regime - the most insanely incompetent group of self-servers that this world has seen in modern time.

And I don't find any hints of the catastrophic tsunami that hit South East Asia particularly relevant in this regard, I'm sorry... who is pulling the money from oil in this country anyways? Maybe your country...??? And should we compare figures here?

Besides, could Geo & Dick even handle your own horrible thing in good old New Orleans? Nope... basicly, that administration has done nothing good, and they will for ever be remembered as the evil disaster they truly were... and stand as a glorified example of the electoral mistake that your people made... with a little help from a corrupt judicial system that made it possible in the first place...

But in 36 hours they'll be HISTORY, the nasty buggers!

So let's rejoice and be HAPPY! There's a new sheriff in town!

GOBAMA!

H
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  #235  
Old 01-19-2009
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Once the AWB returns with a vengeance and concealed-carry is trashed, there's gonna be hell to pay. Responsible gun owners (including would-be's like yours truly) will be pissed. Obama will have made his biggest fuck-up ever.
  #236  
Old 01-19-2009
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Right on Hank, but I don't want them to be history,
I want them tried for WAR CRIMES!
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Old 01-20-2009
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Well, Obama time is upon us. It'll be impossible to live up to the hype but let's HOPE that we can look back in four or eight years time and praise him for harnessing America's strengths to promote a more peaceful and positive world, steering away from the climate of FEAR that has dominated the last eight years.
  #238  
Old 01-20-2009
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Right on Hank, but I don't want them to be history,
I want them tried for WAR CRIMES!
I agree - they would deserve it... as Jesse Ventura said in some interview... "George W. Bush will leave office totally happy and "ignorant" of the damage he has done. He will ride out in the sunset the good old American way and live happily for ever after..."

He's history! Thank God!

So let's focus on the tasks ahead and be amazed that we are being part of history being made here - beyond any presidential election probably EVER!

Enjoy the inauguration!

Congratulations, America! Congratulations, World!

H
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  #239  
Old 01-20-2009
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Blazing Saddles, anyone?
  #240  
Old 01-20-2009
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I agree - they would deserve it... as Jesse Ventura said in some interview... "George W. Bush will leave office totally happy and "ignorant" of the damage he has done. He will ride out in the sunset the good old American way and live happily for ever after..."

He's history! Thank God!

So let's focus on the tasks ahead and be amazed that we are being part of history being made here - beyond any presidential election probably EVER!

Enjoy the inauguration!

Congratulations, America! Congratulations, World!

H
I like the image of the helicopter on the tarmac, with Bush in it and Obama and his wife and Biden and his wife standing there waving goodbye.
Thank God he is leaving! The worst President in our history!
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  #241  
Old 01-21-2009
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As I wrote on inauguration day in my Facebook status, I am "wondering how long the illusions of the day will last in the minds of my celebrating friends."
  #242  
Old 01-31-2009
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i bet u feel dumb now lol
  #243  
Old 01-31-2009
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Right on Hank, but I don't want them to be history,
I want them tried for WAR CRIMES!
Quote:
Originally Posted by hankhavelock View Post
I agree - they would deserve it... as Jesse Ventura said in some interview... "George W. Bush will leave office totally happy and "ignorant" of the damage he has done. He will ride out in the sunset the good old American way and live happily for ever after..."
Well, you can give up that pipe dream right now.
Never gonna happen -- frankly, never stood a chance of happening.

The truth is SO many people on BOTH sides of the political aisle voted for and supported the Iraq War right from the start that ANY sort of trial would involve bringing countless numbers of people to the stand -- all of whom don't want to be anywhere near a courtroom to protect their own self-interests.

Hell, just look at the big news of Friday: it turns out the one leading Democrat, Rep. Conyers, who was vocally pushing for Bush to be brought up on charges, has now been revealed to have his own secret that he was trying to bury and hide: namely, his wife could now be facing a criminal bribery indictment for abusing his office's power to secure financial deals. Gee, maybe it's just me, but the notion that his own wife could be soon standing in front of a judge herself sort of tarnishes the image of him then grandstanding and saying "I'm all for the law and truth to come out!"

Here's the bottom line: everyone who is on the opposite side of aisle to the party currently in power always dreams of tearing the other side down. That's just basic human nature and wanting to see "your side" win. But sad to say, in this day and age, political venom has reached such astounding levels that many people no longer want to see someone just losing their job or being voted out of office -- instead they dream of some nutty Watergate-level conspiracy taking place that is going to tear down absolutely everything in sight. Like a tsunami, it will literally just wipe the other side completely out so that "your side" can now take over for years to come. And unfortunately, Hollywood has done a sensational job (post-Watergate) of selling this bogus idea of all-powerful and all-encompassing conspiracies existing out there, when the truth is there really are none.

The truth is NO administration EVER wants to go after a previous one, simply because it means you THEN expose yourself or your party. You want to go after Bush? Fine -- but then you expose all of the Clinton years that led up to the war, which means the Democrats would actually be putting other Democrats on the firing line. Or look at what's happening now: someone like Conyers wants Karl Rove to testify before Congress, yet Rove is now citing executive privilege and willing to fight it out in court. That puts Obama in a giant bind...and a truly uncomfortable spot...because if he backs a nut job like Conyers and says "Okay, put Rove on the stand" that instantly sets a legal precedent and means over the next 4 years all of HIS advisors can now be made to testify in front of Congress -- or worse, once he's out of office (and, yes, that day will come. After all, we didn't elect him King!) THEN all of his people can be made to testify and reveal confidential information, which I'm sure will include many a conversation that even Mr. Nice Guy Obama would prefer to see kept buried and private.

Politics has too many off-shoots, too many people involved on the Federal level from ALL political parties, which is why everyone will now treat the Bush/Iraq War years as simply something that happened... as something that will be pushed aside now, in the midst of the global economic crisis... and people will prefer for it to simply be something that history will be the final judge on, and not some silly courtroom where ultra-Leftists, consumed in their lingering hate for Bush, are still hoping to get at him even though he's long gone.

For crying out loud, a recent poll showed that a whopping 84% of the American people DON'T support any type of Iraq War hearings or any type of pursuit of Bush for "war crimes", feeling it would only hurt the country and it would be a total waste of money. As I said, they feel we should just move on now since we have this economic crisis to deal with. So, as much as you guys would love to see Bush brought up on "war crimes", keep in mind that 8 out 10 people disagree with you. That's a pretty fucking big number of people that would instantly come up to you and say "What the hell is with you guys? Leave it alone already. We have no interest in this."
  #244  
Old 01-31-2009
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As I wrote on inauguration day in my Facebook status, I am "wondering how long the illusions of the day will last in the minds of my celebrating friends."
Well, considering that a poll just released shows that only 42% of the country now support the Obama economic plan, which means that 58% of the country feels it's a waste of money and it WON'T help the economy...

And considering that other polls show that (on average) about 60% of the American people now feel that CONGRESS is to blame for the economic crisis, every bit as much as Wall Street, for stupidly wasting money on stimulus packages and pork barreling it -- such as Nancy Pelosi wanting to spend $400 million (400 MILLION!!!) on condoms and birth control because, hey, that will really stimulate things (yes, bad pun intended)....

And considering it's been a Democratically controlled Congress for 2 1/2 years now, which means they controlled things going back BEFORE this crisis emerged...

...It's safe to say that with each passing day, as thousands and thousands of people continue to get laid off or lose their homes or see their bank accounts drained, that the glow of Inauguration Day has ALREADY passed.

Always remember rule number one in politics: EVERYONE votes their pocketbook. And no matter how big a smile or friendly a guy he might be, Obama now has to SOLVE this economic crisis, which mind you has escalated to being a GLOBAL crisis. So, in the coming year, Obama has two roads he can go down. It's that simple. He either proves his Harvard brilliance and the economy rights itself, in which case he seals his re-election in 4 years right off the bat...

...Or the economy continues to stay low for another few years, needing time to re-balance itself naturally over time, in which case he suffers the same fate of Jimmy Carter and being the guy who was President when economic times truly sucked, in which case he'll be voted out of office in a landslide (like Carter) because people will blame him for everything.

Bottom line: the "glow of Inauguration" (even a historic one like Obama's, being the first African-American President) will mean NOTHING to the average American if they're out of a job or can't meet their bills.
  #245  
Old 01-31-2009
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Thumbs down war crimes

During WWII I wonder how many Germans wanted Hitler tried for war crimes.

The meltdown? The consensus is that Greenspan was the key player. The conservative fundamentalist philosophy of Milton Friedman that the Republicans and Greenspan worshiped is what led to this debacle.
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  #246  
Old 02-01-2009
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During WWII I wonder how many Germans wanted Hitler tried for war crimes.
Just before you go out on TOO wild a limb, let me get this straight -- now you're comparing any Americans (like myself) who supported the Iraq War OR, as I cited before, the 80-plus percent of Americans who DON'T want to go after Bush, who have NO interest in it AT ALL and who just want to move on, to Nazi Germans???

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The meltdown? The consensus is that Greenspan was the key player. The conservative fundamentalist philosophy of Milton Friedman that the Republicans and Greenspan worshiped is what led to this debacle.
I would hardly say that's the consensus. But, hey, I'm also sure that the banking regulations that the Clinton era imposed (for example, where banks started to be rated by the government and thus were literally FORCED into making unsecured loans to unqualified and low income people in the name of "social justice") -- not to mention all the corruption and lying that people like Dodd or Frank (democrats both) both participated in as heads of Congressional banking committees -- played NO part at all in the collapse. Nope! It was ALL the Republicans fault and their philosophy, this despite the fact that Democrats (as I noted before) had ALREADY been in control of Congress for 2 years BEFORE the crisis hit.

So, feel free to keep singing that Greenspan/Republican tune and see how far it gets you since all of America is more than fully aware that it's now Obama (democrat) in charge of a Senate (democrat) and a House of Representatives (democrat) who are totally controlling things -- and thus credit AND/OR blame falls squarely on their shoulders. And given what I pointed out before -- namely, that only 40% of the American people now feel the government is doing the right thing and 60% now feel the democrats in Congress are actually making things WORSE -- it's gonna be pretty tough to blame the Republicans much longer.

As I noted before as well, with every passing day...as thousands and thousands of people continue to lose their jobs and homes and bank accounts...or as this meltdown continues to spiral around the world, prompting unrest overseas and protests and violence or whatever...this falls squarely on the Democrats now and THEIR ideological practices. And frankly, they're already running into trouble since not too many people are drinking the kool-aid they're trying to sell these days, with such ridiculously silly ideas such as spending half a billion dollars on condoms for kids or giving honeybees insurance or re-sodding some Washington DC monument lawns is going to give them back their jobs or revive the economy or put money back into their lost retirement accounts.

Bottom line: who do you REALLY think the average American is going to hold accountable come midterm elections IF things don't get substantially better? Do you actually believe they'll be sitting at home...broke and unemployed...and thinking, "Damn that Greenspan! This is STILL all his fault!" OR do you think that maybe...just maybe...they'll be turning on their TVs, seeing Obama and the democrats all over, and find themselves thinking "These guys told me if I put them in power they'd fix everything. And look where I am now!"

Me, I'm going with the latter. Like I said before, people always vote their pocketbook. And since most economists now predict it will take up to 3 years before we see any kind improvement, that isn't good news for the Dems. Then again, Jimmy Carter was the shittiest President ever (yes, even worse than Bush) and even he still goes around saying what a great job he did, so I guess Carter is proof positive that there's always going to be utterly delusional people out there...
  #247  
Old 02-01-2009
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I think it's a big step forward that Barack Obama will soon be the first black guy to lose a US presidential election.
people so quickly forget jessie jackson
  #248  
Old 02-01-2009
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What distresses me (as an American Libertarian) is that at minimal 30% of votes that are in the democractic favor are fraudulent. i.e. multiple ,dead, non citizens and 'made up' voters. Yet they get away with it because of apathy,stupidity and fear of onslaught by the very anti Republican media. Republicans are not saints by any measure but Democrats are definitly demons in halo's. Many Republicans if given a chance are much as Democrats for example to 'look the other way' towards a individuals lifestyles. Can anyone imagine Republicans dis-owning their gay son's and daughters. Even famous one's like Reagan and Cheney admit to their own children's choice's as their own private matter and have given love and support regardless. What Republicans take heat on is 'not giving ADDED ' rights and privileges such as affirmitive action. That in itself is discrimination. Murder is murder,theft is theft and so on. When a white male kills another white male for money that is a hate crime(he hated that the victim had money he hadn't). Where I want to go with this I have no clue. But I left the Democratic party long after they sold me out and just after I discovered that they play on and use fear from every voter out there to grab self serving power and wealth. I'll challange anyone to list any legislation that took any action to strip anyone of any rights protected by the Constitution. Democrats have. Immigration bill=1967, rights of self defense,from 1968 to current(remember the looting/killing and raping during Katrina) it was a Democrat who dis-armed everyone from their ONLY means of protection. And now,even as Obama speaks of 'change' his stimulus deal allows corporate theives to still get massive bonuses all the while his mouth says otherwise. Get the details and confirm it yourself. I have. Hey, I'm just a libertarian, my party cannot change anything while the 'masses are asses'(an old American phrase used by old currupt democrats over 100 years ago meaning you CAN fool anyone and those you can't, have short memories.). As for one of my best phrases, "Live long and prosper" .
  #249  
Old 02-01-2009
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Thumbs down Wow!

I am amazed we have hard core Republicans on this site. If my memory serves me well, Senior Bush stated that Homosexuals, Transsexuals and Atheists should be denied the right to vote!
Anyway, I suppose Republicans will continue to worship Rush Limbaugh as the Germans worshiped Hitler. It is a mean spirited intolerant destructive view of the world which will perpetuate the misery we are in.
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"Man's capacity for justice makes democracy possible; but man's inclination to injustice makes democracy necessary." R.N.
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Old 02-01-2009
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Thumbs up Obama has a sense of humor

The nation's first African-American president attended his first Alfalfa Club Dinner as commander in chief last night, and Barack Obama got into the spirit of the evening with jokes aimed at the dinner itself, his famously profane chief of staff and even himself.

According to the White House, among the jokes the president told were:

- "I am seriously glad to be here tonight at the annual Alfalfa dinner. I know that many you are aware that this dinner began almost one hundred years ago as a way to celebrate the birthday of General Robert E. Lee. If he were here with us tonight, the general would be 202 years old. And very confused."

- "Now, this hasn't been reported yet, but it was actually Rahm's idea to do the swearing-in ceremony again. Of course, for Rahm, every day is a swearing-in ceremony."

"But don't believe what you read. Rahm Emanuel (Obama's chief of staff) is a real sweetheart.

"No, it's true. Every week the guy takes a little time away to give back to the community. Just last week he was at a local school, teaching profanity to poor children."

- "But these are the kind of negotiations you have to deal with as president. In just the first few weeks, I've had to engage in some of the toughest diplomacy of my life. And that was just to keep my BlackBerry.

"I finally agreed to limit the number of people who could e-mail me. It's a very exclusive list. How exclusive?

"Everyone look at the person sitting on your left. Now look at the person sitting on your right. None of you have my e-mail address."

As the Associated Press notes, among the others in attendance at the Capitol Hilton in Washington were 2008 Republican presidential nominee John McCain, a senator from Arizona, and his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.

The dinner is supposed to be off-the-record, but reports of what was said always leak out.

Politico reports that:

Looking to Joe Lieberman, the Democrat-turned-independent-turned McCain supporter, Obama told the Connecticut senator he had no hard feelings.

The door is always open, Obama assured Lieberman, who observes the Sabbath, so feel to drop by -- any Saturday afternoon.

To Palin, Obama expressed surprise to see her with such members of the Washington elite she railed against during the campaign. Or, as he termed it in language Palin is familiar with, "palling around with this crew."

The Washington Post says that Lieberman, who also spoke, "noted that former vice president Richard B. Cheney injured himself while moving into his new home, according to a source inside the dinner. 'I had no idea waterboards were so heavy,' Lieberman quipped."

And, the Post reports:

The incoming club president, Sen. Christopher S. Bond, R-Mo. reminded guests that a newspaper recently published a list of the 25 people most responsible for the global economic meltdown. "You know who you are," he said, according to the source. "And it's good to see you here tonight."
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"Man's capacity for justice makes democracy possible; but man's inclination to injustice makes democracy necessary." R.N.
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