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#151
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body Last edited by TracyCoxx; 12-05-2011 at 10:27 AM. |
#152
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#153
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parr
It will alway's be Bush's fault, don't you know that Tracy.
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#154
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parr
And while they are at it, swing on by Jeffery Immelt's.
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#155
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Now, you cleverly implied it. As you well know, there is both denotation AND connotation in language. Quote:
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#156
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Just because I'm telling you this story doesn't mean that I'm alive at the end of it. If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. DEO VINDICE |
#157
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#158
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Thankyou W, as 1/3 of that is from his wonderful taxcuts for the the super rich Then W put in two unfunded wars Remember when W and his Vice said the Iraq war will be paid for out of oil profits Iraq hasn't paid one damn dime We can't afford to rebulid US roads or fix our schools but we can afford to rebulid Iraq WTF????? Funny how the GOP never gives a damn about debt when they are in the White house they only start screaming about it when a Dem is in the white house they never said diddly about the debt Reagan ran up with his trickle down they only cared when Clinton was in office When W stole the Whitehouse he was given a balanced budget and a surplus and with in his first three months both were long gone and the GOP said nothing as he started a massive debit the GOP didn't say diddly until Obama got the Whitehouse and for his whole term that's all they scream about and yet they refuse to end the Bush tax cuts which would do away with a big chunk of it If they were serious about the debt the tax cuts would have been the first to go Jerseygirl Jen |
#159
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I'll let others to draw their own conclusions. Debt is restructured all the time. It would be easy enough for the United States to nationalize the banks to whom debt is owed and deal with it that way ... for just one example of how it could be handled. Extending your logic, we should spend no money until everything is balanced. Good luck with that. Quote:
I wrote the following: "Why you would choose to be an apologist for Adam Carolla, who says absolutely nothing in his rant to distinguish one Occupier from another, and who paints the entire Millenial generation with his broad brush, is beyond my comprehension ... unless you really do agree with him."My charge was specifically about the rant, as you well know. The information about other things Carolla has done/said was introduced quite specifically as follows: "By the way, for those readers who do not know, Adam Carolla is a TV and radio host who has notoriously attacked ethnic groups and women, and now the entire Millenial generation, with useless name-calling that is inappropriate at best and is highly offensive and that has no place in civil discourse at worst. Here are a few examples: ..."That is, it was there to put him in context for everyone else. I did not make an assumption that you knew anything else about him, nor did I make an assumption that you were his best friend, nor did I assume anything in between about your connection to Adam Carolla. I have nothing more to say about this rule that you keep bringing up. If you think I violate it and insult you directly rather than attacking your political positions and the method in which you dissemble to present them, contact the site owner as you have done in the past. We'll take it from there. |
#160
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Over the time you and I have been debating (what is it, a decade? seems like it...) they have drawn their own conclusions and I'm hearing support from them. Of course most of them won't say anything here. They're at least smart enough to know better.
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#161
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#162
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I meant to respond to tslust's assertion with something akin to your comment about "top wage earners owning 80% of the nation's wealth," alas Tracy got up to his old tricks again and I wanted to observe how that went down first. I guess I may as well post that soon.
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Yo creo en el hombre. |
#163
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In light of this, those that don't pay taxes shouldn't expect much of a say in how the country is run. That's one reason I'd like to see a flat tax so everyone has skin in the game.
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#164
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Enoch Root???
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#165
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I too favor the idea of a flat tax. Be it either a swinging percentage based on tax brackets, or a fixed percentage. According to my uncle's idea, the government would take in at least 185 billion dollars each mnoth. Taxing the rich is not an answer, cutting spending is! The rate the government is spending money (over 300 billion a month) is unsustainable. It doesn't matter how much taxes would be hypothetical raised, it won't ever be enough.
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Just because I'm telling you this story doesn't mean that I'm alive at the end of it. If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. DEO VINDICE |
#166
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You do realize that the wealthy pay lower "effective" tax rates (on their total taxable income) than most middle class earners? Middle class earners pay a full 6.2% for Social Security/FICA tax...This is on earnings up to $106,000 (which the vast majority of earners make below this). Meanwhile, the uber-wealthy pay the same 6.2% on their first $106,000 in earnings. Any income beyond this cap isn't taxed. So FICA taxes are regressive in nature. To a family making the median income of $50,000/year, they are paying in excess of 6% FICA tax. Meanwhile, if you have a millionaire bringing in $1,060,000 in income, this millionaire is only paying a 0.6% FICA tax. On marginal tax rates, the wealthy do have a higher tax burden. However, to suggest that they pay "higher taxes" doesn't really elaborate on the way that marginal taxes work. EVERYONE pays the same tax rate on their first dollars of earnings. If I make $10,000 and a millionaire makes $1 billion/year-- guess what, we BOTH pay the exact same rate of taxes on those first $10,000 of earnings. If we each make an additional $50,000 of earnings...Guess what? The millionaire and I BOTH pay the exact same income tax liability on those dollars of earnings. It is only when the millionaire is making money in the next tax bracket (a bracket that I don't fall into because I'm poor) that they begin paying taxes at a higher rate. But technically, everyone pays the same tax liability on earnings. We already have a "flat tax" in this respect. The right likes us to believe that the poor "job creators" are taxed at 30+% on their TOTAL earnings-- this is simply not the case. The one caveat is that there are various deductions, loopholes, etc. which skew income tax liability for lower-income earners. Now, the millionaire and billionaires do pay higher marginal tax rates. However, given that these individuals often receive substantial portions of their income through capital gains, dividends, carried interest, and/or stock options, they end up paying substantially less tax liability on these favored types of income. This is the reason that Warren Buffet has a lower effective tax liability than his secretary. I'm sorry, but for the second wealthiest American to have a lower effective tax burden than the secretary of his company suggests a deeply flawed tax system. And any attempt to make a "fair" or "flat" tax is merely a disguised way of shifting more of the tax burden to the poor (and by default, move tax liability away from the wealthy). And I think George Bush Sr. said it best regarding the old trickle-down theories of Reaganomics-- it's nothing but voodoo economics. |
#167
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Oh, see how easy it is on the Internet to claim anything. But I do give you credit for the last sentence, and its implication. Of course, as we know from an earlier post, your words never have implication or connotation. Why don't you tell us precisely what you would cut to balance the budget, and how much. |
#168
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GRH once said something?and has now reiterated?along the lines of: they have 70 percent of the wealth so it is only proper they be taxed that high. You ignore this and focus instead on taxes because, after all, if the government takes it?s bad, even if the money goes to social programs that benefit the population, but if a corporation does it it?s as American as apple pie?hell! It?s good and proper and gosh darn it it?s sanctioned by thine Founding Fathers. Yeehaw. Of course, your post ignores how much these people who ?pay no taxes? actually make and it ignores whatever other taxes may exist which the population is subject to and it ignores whatever tax evasion the ruling class gets up to and it ignores whatever rules are in place which said class employs most heartily so they end up paying little or no taxes at all, like that whole General Electric thing from a while back.
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Yo creo en el hombre. |
#169
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I was speaking of the Federal tax burden. I wasn't speaking of State, county, city, and sales tax. Furthermore, IDGAF how much money, wealth, property, pay someone does or does not have. How is any person, or (I guess I should say) a group of people "entitled" to partake of another's wealth?
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Just because I'm telling you this story doesn't mean that I'm alive at the end of it. If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. DEO VINDICE |
#170
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#171
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Not in those terms. Taxation is "a burden laid upon individuals or property owners to support the government". The government may choose to spend some of this money on social benefits.
__________________
Just because I'm telling you this story doesn't mean that I'm alive at the end of it. If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. DEO VINDICE |
#172
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And I never used the term "social benefits." I don't think there is a social benefit to much of how the government spends our tax money, but the government does not simply collect the money to fill the coffers of individuals, as was the case with the English monarchy when the United States was a colony. (And before the shitstorm begins, I am not unaware that individuals can enrich themselves at the government teat. I mean that my tax dollars don't go directly into the account of some oligarch.) |
#173
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The GOP are saying the DEMS are redistrubing wealth by taxing the rich and giveing it to the poor who are poor because they are lazy
While the GOPS beloved trickle down is a reverse Robin Hood by taking from the poor to give the rich And does what they claim the DEMS are doing but in the other direction And before you start yelling for a fair flat tax which is not fair as the super rich get another windfall by a even lower rate and those on the bottom recieve a higher rate Perry's 20% flat rate lowers the rate for the rich and raises the amount for those on the bottom since those on the bottom pay no wheres near 20 % currently So explain how a flat tax is fair, it shifts the burden to those on the bottom and a windfall to those on the top Why do you think that systems is wanted by Steve Forbs and the Donald Flat tax is another from the GOP to the 89% not on top Jerseygirl Jen |
#174
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Yo creo en el hombre. |
#175
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Yes, it appears that the 10th amendment is being ignored, especially by the current administration.
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Man, I'm gettin' too old for this shit... |
#176
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I don't think we need to look to Europe. Well, what about Japan? Sure. Japan, who's emperor was until 2 Sep 1945 was a Divine Being, has been in recession for well over 20 years straight. There isn't much left, you're not suggesting China, are you??? No, we need to fix our own house and a good start is a change in the administration next year.
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Man, I'm gettin' too old for this shit... Last edited by paladin68; 12-09-2011 at 02:21 AM. |
#177
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You presume that recessions, etc., are caused by social spending, and point to your examples. But something precedes those recessions, which is putting profits of corporations ahead of human needs and organizing government around ensuring that priority. Finally, things like the Emperor of Japan being a Diving Being, etc., are clearly red herrings in a serious debate. Such an approach is transparently an attempt not to discuss the core of my post. |
#178
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You state you didn't say anything about the European unemployment rate, yet this phrase is an allusion to that: "and more gainfully engaged in work in larger percentages". Europe (especially western Europe, but eastern Europe as well) ) owes its existence and relative problem free past 65 years to the United States. And I'm sure the 30-40 million who died at the hands of tyranny in WW2 would agree.
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Man, I'm gettin' too old for this shit... |
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But I understand how these things work. Heaven forbid we should think differently than the ways in which we have been taught in American schools, that is, the asinine notion that we are all better off when are in it for ourselves. |
#180
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Aren't you part of the American school system?
This refers to Europe, does it not: "It's designed to keep Americans from adopting the kind of social solidarity that created, in most of the world's other industrialized nations, a communal sense of social good that explains why people elsewhere are happier, healthier, and more gainfully engaged in work in larger percentages, " Well, it's not a recipe for success. Western Europe has been under the American Nuclear Umbrella for the past 65 years, and have not had to spend anywhere near as much on their own defense as the US, yet they are still on the brink of fiscal disaster due to excessive unsustainable spending. Your utopia is going broke faster then the US. They have had a greater proportion of their national wealth to make things better, yet they are still on the edge or a disaster. And you want the US to do gown that same road???
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Man, I'm gettin' too old for this shit... |
#181
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I want the United States to go down a road that puts people before profits, period. You continue to ignore what I clearly wrote to make your points. Your comparisons to Europe are not the comparisons I made, and they are irrelevant to my thinking-outside-the-box point earlier on. I did not say we should be Europe, only that more social spending is better. And I stand by that. Sure, under capitalism, where the entire trajectory is to greater and greater exploitation, it is a recipe for disaster if one country tries to buck the trend in a global economy. But that's not what I'm talking about, and I believe you are smart enough to know that. But it's okay: if trying to ghost ideas and making it seem as if they're mine is all you've got, have at it. |
#182
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If not Europe, which country or countries should we emulate?
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#183
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Nevertheless, I will point out that European countries enjoyed far greater social protections for their citizens long before the United States became the source of their defense "budgets." Further, I have not suggested emulating any specific country or countries, only pointed to the fact of greater social safety in certain countries. I will not fall into your trap, and that of paladin68, to name countries to emulate. I call it a trap, because just as you are sitting back enjoying your banal sarcasm, I have no doubt you are desperately hoping I will mention Cuba or some other place so that you can then change the substance of the discussion. No, there is no country to emulate, only an idea. A very powerful idea. It is that society can be organized to put human needs first. Profits are not necessary. Those of you who worship the market, the false god that your high priests claim can deliver every good thing to the mass of people but reveals itself time and again to be a tool of exploitation and enrichment of the few, can smugly call me a communist or whatever you want. The good news is that you don't get to decide how things will turn out. It will be either barbarism, as the decrepit system you so love destroys people and the earth, or it will be something we haven't seen before. And then you will have to make a choice of whether to throw your lot in with those whose interests are actually closest to yours. Last edited by smc; 12-10-2011 at 02:23 PM. |
#184
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Tracy, please explain to me how you believe wealth in Wall Street to be generated.
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Yo creo en el hombre. |
#185
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I believe this would be called, The Corporatization of Education:
http://zunguzungu.wordpress.com/2011/12/01/the-regency/
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Yo creo en el hombre. |
#186
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Yes, obviously quite powerful. Yet, as there is no country to emulate, apparently no country has been able to pull it off. Maybe the need for profits are harder to ignore than you think.
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#187
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Certainly not from my pocket book lol. Ok, they're getting rich off the work of several people, as well as off their own work. But I can't think of any CEOs getting rich off of my work. At least not any that aren't putting in a hell of a lot of work themselves. What I should have said was how are they impoverishing you, because they aren't impoverishing me.
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body Last edited by TracyCoxx; 12-10-2011 at 07:42 PM. |
#188
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"...from adopting the kind of social solidarity that created, in most of the world's other industrialized nations, a communal sense of social good..." When you are referring to "most of the world's other industrialized nations" you are referring to europe, and look where all that good social spending has landed them.
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Man, I'm gettin' too old for this shit... Last edited by paladin68; 12-10-2011 at 11:31 PM. |
#189
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That Europe has gotten closest is a good example. I will make it clear for the last time: whether I did not write specifically that I do not seek to emulate European social democracies exactly in my earlier writing, I state it now. I am talking about something that transcends even Europe. Happy now? |
#190
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Maybe the need for the profiteers to resort to anything in their arsenal to ensure that their outlived class doesn't get pushed into the dustbin of history is greater than you think, and it takes longer.
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#191
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Yo creo en el hombre. |
#192
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When a Wall Street investment bank is bailed out, lent money by the Fed at 0% interest ostensibly to reinvest in the economy, and then does nothing productive -- and yet gives its CEO and others million-dollar-plus bonuses at the end of the year -- do you think that CEO might be getting rich off YOU ... even just a little bit?
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#193
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what we need is another Huey
What we need today is another Huey, this was a man before his time he was fighting the 1 percenters back in the 30s
If we had someonr like him today Rush and Ann would have blown a gasket by now and i know out very own Tracy will also blow a gasket after seeing this http://youtu.be/hphgHi6FD8k Santas naughty elf Jen |
#194
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Yo creo en el hombre. |
#195
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Man, I'm gettin' too old for this shit... |
#196
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Man, I'm gettin' too old for this shit... |
#197
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#198
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Between the recently passed (I'm not sure if it's been signed into law yet.) National Deffence Authorization Act and the upcoming Stop Online Piracy Act, there's not much of the Constitution left.
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Just because I'm telling you this story doesn't mean that I'm alive at the end of it. If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. DEO VINDICE |
#199
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Both parties are corrupt so in the end you have to pick do we want Robin Hood or Jesse James? I'd perfer Robin Hood Santas naughty elf Jen |
#200
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Yeah, well America had a pretty good run didn't she?
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
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