Liberal free for all coming to an end

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by randolph

Check out the English version of Aljazerra. Some real news there.

Are you sure about that? Isn't Aljazeera (how do you write this?) ex-BBC people?

[ila]

Originally Posted by randolph

Check out the English version of Aljazerra. Some real news there.

You won't find any unbiased news reporting there.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ila

You won't find any unbiased news reporting there.

Is that sarcasm?

[smc]

Originally Posted by ila

You won't find any unbiased news reporting there.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Is that sarcasm?

Enoch Root, is yours a rhetorical question?

I think it behooves Westerners to watch the English-language broadcasts of al-Jazeera. Forget what the reporters say (and, by the way, they are very highly regarded by their peers in the Western press). What al-Jazeera offers that is next to impossible to find in the United States and, to only a somewhat lesser extent, Canadian press is the perspective of regular people in the countries of the Middle East, unfiltered by American talking heads on the left and right. For instance, if you watch al-Jazeera, you will learn that the only people who thought the Egyptian uprising was aptly called a "Twitter and Facebook revolution" are American journalists and pundits who love (even if subconsciously) to find a way for America to take credit for everything, even if it's just via inventions by Americans.

Still, in that there is hardly any unbiased reporting anywhere in the world, ila is correct.

[randolph]

The news and especially TV news is filtered through the owners of the TV station. TV stations are very sensitive to the corporations that provide TV advertising. Fox news is in my opinion the worst news station in the US. Murdock is only interested in making money by appealing to the lowest denominator of the US public. For non TV news, NPR is very good.

[transjen]

FOX news should really rename themselves as GOP news or the gossipal accord to Palin news, all kidding aside FOX news is geared for those who listen to the tub of lard Rush all day so perhaps they could rename themselve the Ditto news for and by ditto heads
Jerseygirl Jen

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by smc

Enoch Root, is yours a rhetorical question?

I think it behooves Westerners to watch the English-language broadcasts of al-Jazeera. Forget what the reporters say (and, by the way, they are very highly regarded by their peers in the Western press). What al-Jazeera offers that is next to impossible to find in the United States and, to only a somewhat lesser extent, Canadian press is the perspective of regular people in the countries of the Middle East, unfiltered by American talking heads on the left and right. For instance, if you watch al-Jazeera, you will learn that the only people who thought the Egyptian uprising was aptly called a "Twitter and Facebook revolution" are American journalists and pundits who love (even if subconsciously) to find a way for America to take credit for everything, even if it's just via inventions by Americans.

Still, in that there is hardly any unbiased reporting anywhere in the world, ila is correct.

No it was not rhetorical question. I have trouble with sarcasm when speaking to people and in cyberspace there is no inflection which makes it more difficult.

How accurate is the accusation that pundits always try to find a way to give credit to America for everything? Either way it seems like an odd thing for them to say or think--didn't the US support Mubarak for decades?

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by transjen

Well today Paul Ryan of the GOP gave his verson of the 2012 budget and i give him credit as he seems very serious about doing away with the red ink but thats where the credit ends as this budget is another GOP FU TO THE COMMON PERSON as once agian the GOP are showing who they really care about cutting trillions of dollars but cuting medicare and medicade and planed parents but giveing the top tax bracket another tax cut going with the GOP'S ideals that the rich shall not pay any of the national debit nor shall they sufer from any planed cuts and corpate welfare will also not sufer so the oil companies can rest easy and will recive billions from the goverment and the working poor will get to pay the tab and sufer from the cuts
looks like the 2012 budget is another big from the GOP as the continue to only be looking out for the rich and big bussiness and give the rest of us the BS about trickle down
Jerseygirl Jen

Yes, there are some rich who find so many tax breaks that they don't have to pay taxes at all. Like GE.

BTW, have you seen how close GE is with the BO administration? First, there?s the policy overlap: Obama wants cap-and-trade, GE wants cap-and-trade. Obama subsidizes embryonic stem-cell research, GE launches an embryonic stem-cell business. Obama calls for rail subsidies, GE hires Linda Daschle as a rail lobbyist. Obama gives a speeech, GE employee Chris Matthews feels a thrill up his leg.

And then, none other than GE's CEO Jeff Immelt sits on the President?s Economic Recovery Advisory board.

But I digress... About the rich, and this is from FactCheck.
"The top 1 percent of all households got 18 percent of all personal income and paid nearly 28 percent of all federal taxes in 2005, according to the Congressional Budget Office. The top 1 percent now pay a significantly larger share of taxes than before President Bush's tax cuts, and also have a larger share of income."

Do you see that Jen? Comprehend that. The top 1% paid 28% of all federal taxes. How much percent of all federal taxes is your tax bracket paying Jen?

And another question. The US debt is a result of the government digging itself into a hole. Tell me, why is it the rich's responsibility to bail them out? The government didn't have to budget more than they bring in, but yet they did. Why is that? The government didn't have to take us off the gold standard in exchange for importing goods from China, Japan and other countries, and yet they did (which took business away from US companies, aka 'the rich'). Why is that? It is one stupid move by the government after another that put us in debt like we are. Tell me: WHAT RIGHT DOES THE GOVERNMENT HAVE TO TAKE MONEY FROM THE RICH, OR ANYONE ELSE TO FIX THE MESS THEY MADE?

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by transjen

FOX news should really rename themselves as GOP news or the gossipal accord to Palin news, all kidding aside FOX news is geared for those who listen to the tub of lard Rush all day so perhaps they could rename themselve the Ditto news for and by ditto heads
Jerseygirl Jen

Fox is slanted, but not nearly as much as other news outlets. And at least they are not this bad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFJvlzDpey4

Chris Matthews: I want to do everything I can to make this thing work. This new presidency work.

Interviewer: Is that your job?

Chris Matthews: Yeah, that's my job.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

It will enable the military to bomb more countries with multimillion dollar bombs. You see, we are trying to protect the world from suicide bombers that kill themselves and other people. Our bombs are good bombs, they usually just kill bad guys. That's why they are so expensive.

I'm trying to figure out what exactly you're saying. Yes, our bombs are better, in that they are much more targeted. Yes it therefore costs more money, but are you saying that's a bad thing? Isn't it worth it not to blow up just whatever happens to be nearby and to target your attacks?

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

I'm trying to figure out what exactly you're saying. Yes, our bombs are better, in that they are much more targeted. Yes it therefore costs more money, but are you saying that's a bad thing? Isn't it worth it not to blow up just whatever happens to be nearby and to target your attacks?

I am being sarcastic. The Republicans hate taking care of people who need help and love bombing people who don't cooperate with us.
The military/ industrial complex is alive and well and fully supported by Republicans and Democrats alike.
When are we going to get serious about our future energy supply? Is building more and more sophisticated weaponry that is mind boggling expensive going to solve anything?

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

When are we going to get serious about our future energy supply? Is building more and more sophisticated weaponry that is mind boggling expensive going to solve anything?

We'll get serious about future energy once we have a viable alternative. Mr Fusion would be nice. I also hear the engineers are having problems with hydrogen powered cars, but then I think I heard Norway is already running them? Either way, our energy supplier goes from the MidEast to Russia since they seem to have most of the hydrogen resources.

And of course sophisticated weaponry will solve things. Haven't you seen Iron Man? Seriously though, it's worked ever since our ancestors threw rocks.

[randolph]

Tracy

And of course sophisticated weaponry will solve things. Haven't you seen Iron Man? Seriously though, it's worked ever since our ancestors threw rocks.

Well, We lobbed $500,000,000 dollars worth of missals into Libya. We wiped out Quaddafi's airforce (which probably wasn't worth shit) which was supposed to force him to capitulate, but he fights on. Now NATO is bombing the rebels tanks, what a fuck up!

Oh! for the glory days of Teddy Roosevelt and his great white fleet sailing around the world letting every one know how great we are.

[Enoch Root]

Good old Tracy, I can always depend on you for a loaf of halfbaked bullshit and imperialist entitlement. I find it amazing how you vacillate from pro-business bullshit to trying to sound like a reasonable person about GE's business and their tax debacle but it does implicate Obama so I guess it's easier for you to do that. And I love how you portray the victimizers (ie, the rich) as the poor victims of government policies, never mind that it is the rich who make laws to suit their own selfish ends, never mind that there is no real delineation between government and the private sector, never mind that it is deregulation that is to blame for so many problems, never mind that the economic system you love so much is a slave system.

Criminals should pay for their crimes. But I guess I'm just a parasite so what do I know?

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Tracy

Well, We lobbed $500,000,000 dollars worth of missals into Libya. We wiped out Quaddafi's airforce (which probably wasn't worth shit) which was supposed to force him to capitulate, but he fights on. Now NATO is bombing the rebels tanks, what a fuck up!

Oh! for the glory days of Teddy Roosevelt and his great white fleet sailing around the world letting every one know how great we are.

I do agree with BO on one thing. Militarily, we are spread thin. So yes, we should have had command at the beginning like we did. NATO should have the capability of carrying on from there. What I don't like is that it hardly seemed planned. No one could agree on what exactly the goal was. Also, BO was barely committed to seeing it through. And they took their time getting it going. You don't commit our troops to battle if you don't really give a shit one way or another what happens.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

never mind that it is the rich who make laws to suit their own selfish ends, never mind that there is no real delineation between government and the private sector, never mind that it is deregulation that is to blame for so many problems, never mind that the economic system you love so much is a slave system.

mmmm hmmm. If you say so.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I'm just a parasite so what do I know?

Who said you're a parasite?

[TracyCoxx]

Boner fucked up last night. He seemed to have forgotten two of his pledges: Defund Obamacare, and cut spending $100 billion. I'm tired of republicans who put pleasing democrats over pleasing their own constituents.

[ila]

Originally Posted by randolph

Tracy

Well, We lobbed $500,000,000 dollars worth of missals into Libya. We wiped out Quaddafi's airforce (which probably wasn't worth shit) which was supposed to force him to capitulate, but he fights on. Now NATO is bombing the rebels tanks, what a fuck up!

Actually the current cost, to the US is 500,000,000. That would include the cost of the missiles as well as the all other operational costs such as fuel for the aircraft, parts replacements, all munitions, and the cost of operating the ships involved.

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

I do agree with BO on one thing. Militarily, we are spread thin. So yes, we should have had command at the beginning like we did. NATO should have the capability of carrying on from there. What I don't like is that it hardly seemed planned. No one could agree on what exactly the goal was. Also, BO was barely committed to seeing it through. And they took their time getting it going. You don't commit our troops to battle if you don't really give a shit one way or another what happens.

The US is a signatory to NATO so why do the two of you try to make it look like NATO and the US are separate entities when it comes to military alliances and actions.

I disagree that the US should have retained command. Other countries are more than capable of taking command of military operations.

I do agree that no politician thought about what goal is to be achieved. It seems that the only thought was to destroy Libya's military capability and maybe hope that Qadhafi would leave of his own accord or maybe be overthrown. Beyond that the politicians don't have a clue as to what to do because no plan was ever made.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

mmmm hmmm. If you say so.

When you've nothing to say I guess you can always resort to onomatopoeia and condescension.

The briefest glance at the world shows it to be shackled by the American empire: sweatshops to make Nike shoes and garden-variety exploited workers in South America making your Cocacola--who are sometimes murdered by their government, a government that is in cahoots with the US to provide them cheap slave labor. Chinese workers are exploited every day to make all manner of crap that is summarily bought by Americans in thrall by your greedy, materialistic consumerist culture. The list goes on and on. And let us not forget this is because these American companies believe it natural to exploit people, just like the aristocracy of old. Let us not forget either that the use of slave labor is the real reason why jobs have been "offshored." You have to put the hoi polloi in their place after all. You have to put them to work, make them useful, show them who's boss. This is what I mean by slaves.

The point about parasites should be well known to you. Libertarians love that word don't they? "Burden us not with your chaff" and other such authoritarian garbage. These exploited workers are the "parasites" and so am I since I'm Puertorican. I'm just a moocher, a freeloader and so are the Indonesians in sweatshops and so are Mexican immigrants and so are the average US workers. It's what authoritarians always do: they exploit people and then they scapegoat them. That should sound familiar: teachers and unions are blamed for the financial troubles even though they were caused by tax cuts for the rich and two wars which have yet to end.

This issue of "parasite" or some other similar labeling of victims is at the heart of your absurd sociopolitical beliefs--you look down on the smallfolk, but pander to the rich and powerful.

[randolph]

Ila

I disagree that the US should have retained command. Other countries are more than capable of taking command of military operations.

Are they really? NATO planes bombed insurgent tanks because they didn't "know" that they had tanks.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Boner fucked up last night. He seemed to have forgotten two of his pledges: Defund Obamacare, and cut spending $100 billion. I'm tired of republicans who put pleasing democrats over pleasing their own constituents.

Are you aware that the Republicans voted overwhelmingly to continue a 147 million dollar annual subsidy to Brazilian cotton growers in order to protect Monsanto's sale of cotton seed in Brazil?
Meanwhile they want to defund family planning in the US.
If the Reagan and Bush taxcuts were eliminated, we would have a budget surplus and we could begin to pay off the debt.

Is that going to happen?
Not while the rest of us allow to be

[ila]

Originally Posted by randolph

Ila

Are they really? NATO planes bombed insurgent tanks because they didn't "know" that they had tanks.

Would you like me to produce a list of times and places that US planes bombed and strafed their allies? I could start with recent events in Iraq and Afghanistan and then start working back in time.

And BTW the only planes that NATO owns are AWACS. All other countries participating in the Libyan conflict are owned by their respective countries and that includes countries that don't belong to NATO.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by ila

Would you like me to produce a list of times and places that US planes bombed and strafed their allies? I could start with recent events in Iraq and Afghanistan and then start working back in time.

And BTW the only planes that NATO owns are AWACS. All other countries participating in the Libyan conflict are owned by their respective countries and that includes countries that don't belong to NATO.

I am not arguing with you on the errors US planes have made in the past.

The accidental attacks on insurgent tanks were apparently by planes flying under the NATO flag. I don't know who the planes belong to.
The point I was making is that there seems to be a serious lack of communication among the NATO participants.

[ila]

Originally Posted by randolph

I am not arguing with you on the errors US planes have made in the past.

The accidental attacks on insurgent tanks were apparently by planes flying under the NATO flag. I don't know who the planes belong to.
The point I was making is that there seems to be a serious lack of communication among the NATO participants.

How did you reach the conclusion that there is a serious lack of communication among NATO participants? I will also remind you that there are more countries than NATO participating in enforcing the no-fly zone in Libya.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by ila

How did you reach the conclusion that there is a serious lack of communication among NATO participants? I will also remind you that there are more countries than NATO participating in enforcing the no-fly zone in Libya.

Well, the pilot didn't know that the insurgents had tanks! So he attacked them assuming they were Quaddafi tanks. Also, NATO expressed "regret" about the incident.

[ila]

Originally Posted by randolph

Well, the pilot didn't know that the insurgents had tanks! So he attacked them assuming they were Quaddafi tanks. Also, NATO expressed "regret" about the incident.

None of this indicates a lack of communication among the coalition.

NATO is in charge of running the no-fly zone. Therefore any statements coming from the coalition will be statements originating from NATO.

[ila]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

We'll get serious about future energy once we have a viable alternative. Mr Fusion would be nice. I also hear the engineers are having problems with hydrogen powered cars, but then I think I heard Norway is already running them? Either way, our energy supplier goes from the MidEast to Russia since they seem to have most of the hydrogen resources.

You should get your facts straight. The majority of oil imported by the US comes from Canada. The second most imports by the US are from Mexico.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by ila

None of this indicates a lack of communication among the coalition.

NATO is in charge of running the no-fly zone. Therefore any statements coming from the coalition will be statements originating from NATO.

Some latest news on the Libya situation. Pink tanks!

TRIPOLI, April 8 (Xinhua) -- NATO Friday confirmed its aircraft bombed a rebel tank column in Libya, while the U.N. Human Rights Council appointed three experts to investigate alleged rights abuses in the conflict-torn country.
Rear Admiral Russell Harding, a NATO military commander, said in Italy's Naples that the alliance's aircraft bombed a rebel tank column near the oil town of Brega on Thursday.
"Two of our strikes yesterday may have resulted in deaths of a number of TNC (the Transitional National Council) forces, who were operating in battle tanks. The incident took place northeast of Brega."
"The situation in this area is still very fluid, with tanks and other vehicles moving in different directions, making it very difficult to distinguish who maybe operating them. In addition, until this time, we have not seen the TNC operating tanks," he said.
The bombing appeared to be the second friendly fire strike by NATO aircraft in less than a week. Last Saturday, a NATO air strike killed 13 rebel fighters near Brega, who were firing into the air to celebrate.
Meantime, NATO spokeswoman Oana Lungescu said there was "no purely military solution" for the Libyan crisis.
"It is important to find a political solution ... There is no stalemate, just on the contrary, there is a clear drive from the international community to urgently find a political solution to this conflict," she said.
After the latest NATO mistake, Libyan rebels have painted the roofs of their vehicles bright pink to avoid more friendly fire casualties.

[transjen]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Boner fucked up last night. He seemed to have forgotten two of his pledges: Defund Obamacare, and cut spending $100 billion. I'm tired of republicans who put pleasing democrats over pleasing their own constituents.

i have to laugh at all of the GOP who are now pissing and moaning about the budget and are demanding cuts and are so worried about the sea of red ink when for eight years they said not a word when W was run up the credit card with his massive tax cuts for the rich and two unfunded wars
So now that a DEM is in the white house all of a sudden you are worried about it and yet you still want all of W's tax cuts left alone and in fact you want them made bigger
So if you were serious Bush's tax cuts would be the first to go then end both wars and not start a third like John Macain wants and the GOP are banging the war drum for and end corpate wellfare
But no the GOP wants just the poor to suffer from the cuts and pay for sea of red ink while the rich party on and get even more tax cuts
Don't cut planned parent hood do away with Bush's tax cuts and it's time the rich started paying there share
GEORGE W BUSH created this mess with his trickle down BS and two wars put on credit so F rich and make them start paying there share
Trickle down does not create jobs and the world will not end if the taxes for the rich went back to pre 2001 amounts
The GOP wants to end entitlements then the first to go should be the rich should pass less then everyone else
Jerseygirl Jen

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

When you've nothing to say I guess you can always resort to onomatopoeia and condescension.

No, you've just made a bunch of unsubstantiated claims. I could get all worked up over it, or just recognize that that's your thing and let it go.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Chinese workers are exploited every day to make all manner of crap that is summarily blah blah blah

China is doing very well off our nickle. I would like very much for that to end, and for that work to come back over to the US. If the Chinese are exploited they have their government to thank. There's no reason for them to be living in the conditions they are. China is a very wealthy nation.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This issue of "parasite" or some other similar labeling of victims is at the heart of your absurd sociopolitical beliefs--you look down on the smallfolk, but pander to the rich and powerful.

Parasite is your word not mine. I'm not going to say it does or does not apply to you. I don't know you and you don't know me. You don't know who I look down on or who I pander to. And I've never heard the phrase "Burden us not with your chaff". I even googled it... nothing. It's catchy though. You should make a t-shirt with that written on it and sell it.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by ila

You should get your facts straight. The majority of oil imported by the US comes from Canada. The second most imports by the US are from Mexico.

My apologies to Canada. But are you sure the US gets more oil from Mexico than the Mid East?

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by transjen

i have to laugh at all of the GOP who are now pissing and moaning about the budget and are demanding cuts

wait wait... I have really not read the rest yet, but I sense some good ol fashioned George Bush bashing coming on....

Originally Posted by transjen

and are so worried about the sea of red ink when for eight years they said not a word when W

hahaaaaa there it is. Jen, who is it that's pressuring Boner to make real cuts in spending?

Originally Posted by transjen

So if you were serious Bush's tax cuts would be the first to go then end both wars

Hey, tell it to your Obama

But even he knows that ending Bush's tax cuts would tank the economy. So you really don't think it's possible that we might be over spending somewhere? There was one congressman I saw on the news yesterday who came up with several hundred million to cut for a particular item in defense. It passed without any no votes at all. Are you sure you wouldn't concede that it's possible we're spending too much?

[franalexes]

"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." Theodore Roosevelt

[ila]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

My apologies to Canada. But are you sure the US gets more oil from Mexico than the Mid East?

I'm not sure about the total quantities coming from Mexico and the Middle East. I do know that Mexico is ranked second as the country that supplies the US with oil, however all the countries of the Middle East combined may supply more oil than Mexico.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by franalexes

"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." Theodore Roosevelt

Dear ol Teddy was the most progressive Republican president we have ever had. Such as, minimum wage, workman's comp, child labor, retirements, trust busting, etc.
He was the peoples Republican president. Most of the programs put in place by FDR were initiated by TR.
Republicans today want to do away with all the progressive programs that he started and return the country to the time when a few very rich men ruled the country (J.P. Morgan, Rockefeller, et. al.). When children worked in the coal mines for six dollars a month. No minimum wage, no workers comp, no retirement, no health care.

Ah yes, we have so much to look forward to with Republicans in control of the government.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by ila

I'm not sure about the total quantities coming from Mexico and the Middle East. I do know that Mexico is ranked second as the country that supplies the US with oil, however all the countries of the Middle East combined may supply more oil than Mexico.

The oil output of Mexico is declining. The sale of oil is what sustains the Mexican government. In the near future Mexico will no longer have oil to sell and will likely descend into chaos. The people of US border states better get prepared.
Egypt and Libya are contained by desert. We have a wadeable river!

[franalexes]

Originally Posted by randolph

Dear ol Teddy was the most progressive Republican president we have ever had. Such as, minimum wage, workman's comp, child labor, retirements, trust busting, etc.
He was the peoples Republican president. Most of the programs put in place by FDR were initiated by TR.
Republicans today want to do away with all the progressive programs that he started and return the country to the time when a few very rich men ruled the country (J.P. Morgan, Rockefeller, et. al.). When children worked in the coal mines for six dollars a month. No minimum wage, no workers comp, no retirement, no health care.

Ah yes, we have so much to look forward to with Republicans in control of the government.

"lie" What do you think Tracy? Do we start counting now?

[randolph]

Originally Posted by franalexes

"lie" What do you think Tracy? Do we start counting now?

Well Fran, your support (Tracy, Ila) are off line. The liberals (Jen, Enoch) are also off line. So I guess we need to have a cup of coffee and wait for reinforcements.

[ila]

Originally Posted by randolph

...Republicans today want to do away with all the progressive programs that he started and return the country to the time when a few very rich men ruled the country (J.P. Morgan, Rockefeller, et. al.). When children worked in the coal mines for six dollars a month. No minimum wage, no workers comp, no retirement, no health care. ...

Prove it.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by randolph

Well Fran, your support (Tracy, Ila) are off line. The liberals (Jen, Enoch) are also off line. So I guess we need to have a cup of coffee and wait for reinforcements.

I hope this is the first and last time I have to say this: I am not a liberal.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I hope this is the first and last time I have to say this: I am not a liberal.

Well, I guess that means you want to stay out of the discussion?

[transjen]

[QUOTE=TracyCoxx;181030]:

But even he knows that ending Bush's tax cuts would tank the economy[QUOTE]


Ah yes the same BS we have heard from the GOP sine Ronnie R it's doom and gloom if the rich have to pay there fair share of taxes
The GOP cry goverment is to big ok then first lets end Bush's expanded goverment and do away with his homeland defence agency after all it's nothing but a make you feel a false sense of safty
second end corpate wellfare the oil companies need no help
third defense spending lets shut down some of our overseas bases and keep only the truely needed ones open
fourth end the BUSH BS tax cuts for the rich and go back to the 2000 tax rates and the world would not end
fifth do away with the tax welfare for big bussness and stop these tax agreements where the end up paying almost nothing talking about the tv ads that ask have you past due taxes and owe more then 10 grand call us and you'll pay pennies on the dollar
sixth cut the payroll of the house senate and whitehouse all three are way over paid and all deserve a 30% pay cut
seventh cut out taxpayers from have to pay for all former presidents to have a office and all expanes paid for from taxpayers,if BUSH CLINTON BUSH wants an office and staff well fine make them pay for it themselves
edightth end all aid to other countries the GOP claim we are broke so end aid for for outside countries
tenth stop paying illegals collage healthcare food housing school and all other goodies the leetch one too they don't belong here and these funds should go to US born citizens who need the help
Jerseygirl Jen

[ila]

Originally Posted by transjen

...sixth cut the payroll of the house senate and whitehouse all three are way over paid and all deserve a 30% pay cut...

A paycut is good idea for politicians everywhere. But when has any politician ever taken a pay cut. They all prefer to oink at the public trough.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by ila

A paycut is good idea for politicians everywhere. But when has any politician ever taken a pay cut. They all prefer to oink at the public trough.

I like the way the Athenians selected their legislators. Eligible candidates names from representative segments of the society were put in a hat and then selected by drawing for one term. Oh by the way, they paid there own way. No campains, no politics, no huge campaign funds, no bull shit. They just served their country as a citizen for a period of time.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by ila

Prove it.

Here is an example.

Another indicator of the real conservative agenda

Posted at 8:53 AM by Rob Schofield


One of the big lies of modern politics is the notion that conservatives are against ?big government? interfering in the lives of individuals. As we?ve been repeatedly reminded of late, the right actually loves big government ? especially when it comes to things like making people show their papers to law enforcement and election officials, limiting a woman?s right to decide what to do with her own body and health, telling consenting adults who they can love and share their lives with, freeing up the police to engage in unlawful searches and seizures and a host of other areas.
The right loves the ?pro-freedom? moniker, but in fact, a large proportion of their policy prescriptions are about expanding government and/or corporate authority vis a vis the individual.
Next week, we?ll see another example of the conservative love for using state power to expand the rights of corporations and limit the rights of individuals when a North Carolina House committee takes up legislation to permit general creditors to garnish the wages of average folks. For decades, North Carolina has restricted this remarkably intrusive process and limited it to very specific circumstances like back taxes, child support and a few others.
When it comes, however, to general creditors like credit card companies and retailers, North Carolina has stood four-square in opposition to the idea that creditors should be able to insert themselves into an individual?s private relationship with his or her employer and/or banking institution.
In effect, wage garnishment allows these creditors (even predatory, high interest lenders who knowingly lent money to people they should have known would struggle to pay it back) to leap to the front of the line and thereby make it even harder for average people to pay their most important bills (things like rent and food and keeping the lights on).
In short, it?s another classic example of corporate interests using state power to limit the freedom of individuals ? and another example of conservative hypocrisy.

[franalexes]

"I hope you realize that my post is intended to stimulate the discussion, "stir the pot" so to speak.
R"

Now is this a stir to the right or left? Or does it just boil?

[randolph]

Originally Posted by franalexes

"I hope you realize that my post is intended to stimulate the discussion, "stir the pot" so to speak.
R"

Now is this a stir to the right or left? Or does it just boil?

Well, I think SMC and all the moderators would agree that publishing PMs is not a good thing to do. Our own "Wikileaks" so to speak.

Am I boiling? YES
The behavior of our government, Republicans and Democrats alike are threatening our way of life by ignoring the real issues facing the country and the world.
birth control food supply energy supply climate change

[franalexes]

Originally Posted by randolph

,,,,,,,,,,, Republicans and Democrats alike are threatening our way of life,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, [/COLOR]

Gosh! you include both? Are we making progress here? I didn't ever think I see you print that. Now, how can we get those in power to understand that THEY are the problem?
I wonder how many politicians read this forum for it's POLITICAL content?
(No doubt some come here for ,,,,research. )
I think if I wanted to make a serious political statement I'd be on a political forum.

[TeslaDante]

Fran, keep out of politics. These guys don't "get your drift".
They certainly don't like getting burned by the fiesty bitch.
Do what you do best. Now if you want to tease them 'til they play with themselves, get into another thread/s,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and maybe out of yours?

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TeslaDante

Fran, keep out of politics. These guys don't "get your drift".
They certainly don't like getting burned by the fiesty bitch.
Do what you do best. Now if you want to tease them 'til they play with themselves, get into another thread/s,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and maybe out of yours?

Hey, being flamed by Fran is what keeps things interesting around here.
What's the name of that song "Baby it hurts so good"?

[randolph]

Posted on a political forum.

Your political orientation says more about you than about the state of society. Your political orientation does not correlate with your intelligence - your ability to analyze and solve problems, it has to do with your values, and values are not rational. Evolution produced liberals and conservatives, which means each have a claim to the validity of their values. If not, evolution would have gotten rid of them. Every ideology has a dark side and a light side. Liberals and socialists are dead on when they attack robber barons and anybody else who amasses wealth by organized theft. But at some point, they become parasitic on people who earn their wealth honestly, because they cannot take the ideological blinders off. Conservatives are dead on when they perceive and respond to external threats and protect the property of people who earn their wealth honestly, but at some point they try to create a permanent hereditary wealthy class, because they cannot take the ideological blinders off. Does any one try, really try, to understand their political opponents? Rarely. Its so much more comforting to call them idiots, or sadists, or masochists, or the embodiment of evil. Its too scary to try to really understand your political opponents - it feels too much like agreeing with them. Anyone who does not wish to trancend the blinders of their own ideology is just another dog howling at the moon, like the original poster. Trancending your own ideology is not the same as discarding your ideology, or adopting that of your opponent. It just makes you sound like less of a fool.