Baseball

[shadows]

It is nice to read an opposing point of view(regarding McGuire, as I agree that drugs in sports are crap). I don't know how I missed your original post, so I'm glad that you posted it again.

Speaking of Sosa, besides the stigma of being a steroid user, he is now being labelled as a "Michael Jackson Wannabe" as he had a picture taken of him recently where he looked very pale(I think I saw it at espn.com). Some people were accusing him of tying to get rid of his Latino traits and trying to become caucasian. I am not sure how true this story is since all I saw was that one article about it. Did you hear about this at all, dauls?

[dauls]

Originally Posted by shadows

It is nice to read an opposing point of view(regarding McGuire, as I agree that drugs in sports are crap). I don't know how I missed your original post, so I'm glad that you posted it again.

Speaking of Sosa, besides the stigma of being a steroid user, he is now being labelled as a "Michael Jackson Wannabe" as he had a picture taken of him recently where he looked very pale(I think I saw it at espn.com). Some people were accusing him of tying to get rid of his Latino traits and trying to become caucasian. I am not sure how true this story is since all I saw was that one article about it. Did you hear about this at all, dauls?

No. That Sammy Sosa story is a new one to me. Apart from the steroid links I haven't heard a thing about him since he last played in 2007.

Sosa also briefly played alongside another member of the 500 HR Club who posted a positive test for steroids: Rafael Palmeiro.

[shadows]

Originally Posted by dauls

No. That Sammy Sosa story is a new one to me. Apart from the steroid links I haven't heard a thing about him since he last played in 2007.

Sosa also briefly played alongside another member of the 500 HR Club who posted a positive test for steroids: Rafael Palmeiro.

I think that whole Texas Rangers team back then was pretty bad with regards to steroids. Wasn't A-Roid on that team too?

I think if you google 'sammy sosa white' and then click on 'Images' you will see the pictures I was talking about.

Of course, one of the places it is on is tmz.com, and we all know that is the place to get the truth.

[smc]

Originally Posted by dauls

OK McGwire may have presented himself as a nicer person than Bonds, but the bottom line is he was a drugs cheat. He was a role model to thousands of kids, but he was another one of the potential catalysts for them to be 'juiced' by unscrupulous coaches. Coaches who saw great potential in a youngster, but knew steroids could be used to make the difference and help the youngster stand out from the others.

Drugs need to be kept out of sport for the sake of the under 18s. Once you are an adult you can do what you want to yourself, and if you get caught, accept your punishment and shut the fck up.

As you've probably guessed by now, I have no sympathy for McGwire. I put him in the same group as Bonds, Sosa, A-Rod, Clemens, Jos? Canseco, etc. You're either clean or a cheat.

... Hopefully Albert Pujols can carry on for long enough to catch A-Rod and pass him.

After reading dauls' post, I feel I must clarify my earlier post about watching the McGwire interview. I wrote my initial impressions.

I want to make a few points.

1. Performance-enhancing drugs have no place whatsoever in sport. Their use is cheating, and -- as dauls points out -- dangerous for kids.

2. Right or wrong, none of these drugs were specifically banned in baseball at the time the so-called "steroid era" began.

3. I believe Mark McGwire and people like Andy Pettite when they say that they took these drugs to help recover from injuries. This was not the case for people like Bonds or Clemens or A-Rod. This does not eliminate point #1, above.

4. I think all the records set during the steroid era should at least have an asterisk (*) that indicates they are suspect.

5. Mark McGwire failed in his interview to state unequivocally that his steroids, taken for injuries, essentially increased his batting power (if not his "god-given skill" of hand-to-eye coordination or his bat speed, which is a function of swinging skill more than strength). He hinted that he would have hit just as many home runs without steroids. Whether that is or not, his failure to own up to even the possibility greatly diminishes his "confession."

There is a lot more I could write, but I will leave it at that, except to reiterate that steroids and HGH are wrong for baseball: they are dangerous, and they represent cheating. On that there can be no equivocation.

[shadows]

Here is another chapter to that story. Jose Canseco(who basically got the whole ball rolling with his book 'Juiced', says that McGuire and La Russa are not telling the whole truth. Here is the article from tsn.ca.

-----------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------

CANSECO SAYS MCGWIRE, LA RUSSA NOT TELLING THE TRUTH

A day after Mark McGwire admitted to using steroids, one former teammate believes that McGwire hasn't told the entire truth.

Former 'Bash Brother' Jose Canseco, whose 2005 book 'Juiced' opened up the culture of steriods at the time, was not to pleased with some things that McGwire said on Monday, specifically when McGwire said that he and Canseco never talked about steroids, let alone injected each other, which Canseco claimed in the book.

"I've got no problems with a few of the things he's saying, but again, it's ironic and strange that Mark McGwire denies that I injected him with steroids. He's calling me a liar again," Canseco said on ESPN 1000 radio. "I've defended Mark, I've said a lot of good things about him, but I can't believe he just called me a liar.

"There is something very strange going on here, and I'm wondering what it is. I even polygraphed that subject matter, that I injected him, and passed it completely. So I want to challenge him on national TV to a polygraph examination. I want to see him call me a liar under a polygraph examination."

Canseco also took a shot at current St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa, who managed McGwire in St. Louis and both McGwire and Canseco in Oakland, for his public statement that he didn't know that McGwire had used steroids until McGwire called him early on Monday.

"That's a blatant lie," Canseco said. "Tony La Russa was quoted as saying that I was using steroids back then, and I was talking about it in the clubhouse, openly. That's a blatant lie.

"There are some things here that are so ridiculous, and so disrespectful for the public and the media to believe. I just can't believe it. I'm in total shock. These guys remind me of politicians that go up and just lie to the public and expect to get elected."

Canseco, who told ESPN that he is still a big fan of McGwire, is tired of defending what he wrote in 'Juiced.'

"I'm tired of justifying what I've said," Canseco said. "I've polygraphed, I've proven that I'm 100 percent accurate. I never exaggerated. I told it the way it actually happened. I'm the only one who has told it the way it actually happened. Major League Baseball is still trying to defend itself. It's strange. All I have is the truth, and I've proven that."

[smc]

I've been giving a lot more thought today to Mark McGwire's interview with Bob Costas. It may still be reasonable to believe that McGwire began taking steroids because of injuries, his refusal to acknowledge even the possibility that the drugs may have contributed positively to his performance numbers renders his apology meaningless. So now we have an admission of guilt, but not the apology that would come with a full confession of the facts.

I am not alone in this assessment. I found this evening that most of the commentators were saying virtually the same thing.

Here's some of what McGwire said when asked by Costas whether the drugs enhanced his performance. Insisting they did not, he said: ""I just believed in my ability, and my hand to eye coordination, and the strength of my mind. I developed them on their own"

Asked whether he would have had the same level of home run productivity if he "had never touched anything more than a protein shake," McGwire said yes, insisting he could have surpassed Babe Ruth's productivity without the drugs.

Keith Olbermann made a very good point: while some speculate whether he might have hit, say, 40 without the steroids rather than 70 in a season, the truth is that if he took the drugs for the reason he claims -- for his health, so that he could be healthy enough to play baseball -- the drugs actually enabled him to hit any number over zero.

Clearly, McGwire had no choice but to "come clean" (his words) because of his recent hiring by the St. Louis Cardinals as hitting coach.

Today comes the revelation that McGwire's "crisis manager" consultant for yesterday's events is Ari Fleischer, George W. Bush's first press secretary of his presidency. As Keith Olbermann put it tonight (I am paraphrasing), now we know that Fleischer's worse "hit and miss" wasn't "Mission Accomplished."

[dauls]

Nice posts smc & shadows.

I've only seen excerpts of McGwire's interview, but I didn't fall for his crocodile tears. What does he want? A fcking Oscar. Maybe he taught Paltrow how to weep to order when she collected her 'Best Actress' award.

The "I only took small amounts to help recover from injuries and to cope with the strain of a 162 game schedule", sounds like bullsht to me.

If anyone in baseball would have 'needed' steroids to help get through a 162 game season then that would've been the hero who managed to string together a run of 2,632 games, he played through a fck of a lot of injuries.
But somehow he knew taking steroids was wrong, even though the Commissioner and MLB failed to implement doping tests in baseball long after other sports had done the decent thing.

Taking steroids in baseball may not have been banned in McGwire's time, but he knew it was wrong. Look at the size of him when he hit that record breaking homer, how did he manage to run the bases carrying that upper body around?

Would he have still hit 583 homers without the steroids?
We'll never know... will we?
So he can't say "Yes, I would have." Unless he can find a time machine, travel back to before his first 'juicing' and then play his career again... clean.
Where's the Doctor when you need him? Oops! That's what probably got McGwire into trouble in the first place.

I bet Bonds is currently enjoying all the attention being on someone else.

-----------------

When it comes to steroids, I'm surprised no athletes have been nobbled by opponents. There must be some dodgy coaches/athletes out there who've wanted/tried to spike the competition's food/drink with the hope that they'll get caught by the testers.

[shadows]

Originally Posted by dauls

Nice posts smc & shadows.

I've only seen excerpts of McGwire's interview, but I didn't fall for his crocodile tears. What does he want? A fcking Oscar. Maybe he taught Paltrow how to weep to order when she collected her 'Best Actress' award.

The "I only took small amounts to help recover from injuries and to cope with the strain of a 162 game schedule", sounds like bullsht to me.

If anyone in baseball would have 'needed' steroids to help get through a 162 game season then that would've been the hero who managed to string together a run of 2,632 games, he played through a fck of a lot of injuries.
But somehow he knew taking steroids was wrong, even though the Commissioner and MLB failed to implement doping tests in baseball long after other sports had done the decent thing.

Taking steroids in baseball may not have been banned in McGwire's time, but he knew it was wrong. Look at the size of him when he hit that record breaking homer, how did he manage to run the bases carrying that upper body around?

Would he have still hit 583 homers without the steroids?
We'll never know... will we?
So he can't say "Yes, I would have." Unless he can find a time machine, travel back to before his first 'juicing' and then play his career again... clean.
Where's the Doctor when you need him? Oops! That's what probably got McGwire into trouble in the first place.

I bet Bonds is currently enjoying all the attention being on someone else.

-----------------

When it comes to steroids, I'm surprised no athletes have been nobbled by opponents. There must be some dodgy coaches/athletes out there who've wanted/tried to spike the competition's food/drink with the hope that they'll get caught by the testers.

Thanks dauls.

Regarding Bonds, he will be happy all right...at least until his trial starts.

Just in case you were wondering, you can swear if you want to.

[ila]

I think the commissioner at the time, team owners, coaches, etc. have got to take some of the blame for the rampant steroid use among the players. Had those in charge not turned a blind eye/encouraged the use/failed to implement drug testing then there would not have been a problem and the players would have had unblemished records. Maybe these players were capable of their feats without drug use, but we'll never know and baseball is the poorer for it.

The fans have lost out and the players have lost out. The only winners, it seems to me, were the team owners. I'm not shocked at this, but I am disappointed.

[transjen]

This whole mess started in the mid 80s and i think ESPN has a lot to do with it, Players were all asking how can i make the top of sports center? Answer smack the ball to the moon not only will that give me prime sports center coverage but my contract amount will increase and it draws more fans to pay and watch putting dollar signs in the owners eyes so they acted like I KNOW NOTHING i don't see my two bash brothers in the stale give each out a needle in the butt,
Money greed caused the whole roid mess and i believe ESPN was a factorer
Jerseygirl Jen

[ila]

Originally Posted by transjen

This whole mess started in the mid 80s and i think ESPN has a lot to do with it, Players were all asking how can i make the top of sports center? Answer smack the ball to the moon not only will that give me prime sports center coverage but my contract amount will increase and it draws more fans to pay and watch putting dollar signs in the owners eyes so they acted like I KNOW NOTHING i don't see my two bash brothers in the stale give each out a needle in the butt,
Money greed caused the whole roid mess and i believe ESPN was a factorer
Jerseygirl Jen

I've never thought of the ESPN connection, but I think it has merit. You're probably onto something here, Jen.

[shadows]

Originally Posted by ila

I think the commissioner at the time, team owners, coaches, etc. have got to take some of the blame for the rampant steroid use among the players. Had those in charge not turned a blind eye/encouraged the use/failed to implement drug testing then there would not have been a problem and the players would have had unblemished records. Maybe these players were capable of their feats without drug use, but we'll never know and baseball is the poorer for it.

The fans have lost out and the players have lost out. The only winners, it seems to me, were the team owners. I'm not shocked at this, but I am disappointed.

It boggles the mind how quickly everyone has given A-Roid a pass(and that means Bud Selig as well as other MLB execs), yet they still will not allow Pete Rose into the Hall! Come on! I can see if Pete ever bet for the Reds to lose, but he always bet for them to win. I think Pete's "crime" is far less severe than the various juice-heads that will probably end up in the Hall(A-Roid? There is one undeserving assclown if I ever saw one. I can't stand that punk!

[shadows]

Originally Posted by ila

I've never thought of the ESPN connection, but I think it has merit. You're probably onto something here, Jen.

A lot of the people that post at espn.com have stated that a lot of their articles are now "sensationalized" rather than being just about the sport. There have also been rumblings of bias, such as the various NCAA football stories that deal with the one ESPN employee's son who said that his coach "mistreated" him while he had a concussion. They call it "the shed" incident, but I cannot recall any more particulars.

[transjen]

A-Rod gets the free pass because he's a fan favorite and he packs em in, He didn't do anything that Bonds didn't do and yet Bonds is seen as a bad guy the difference is Bonds was and is an A-HOLE and not loved by fans
And rember good old Bud was and proably still a team owner for most and even if he really no longer owns the Brewers i believe his daughter is so he won't come down on George or take away one of his top gate players as A-ROD draws fans so a blind eye is turned
If Pete was still able to pack the house you could bet your life savings he would be back in baseball but i dout i live long enought to see Pete get in the hall of fame i will bet that Jose Cansenco will get in before Pete does
Jerseygirl Jen

[shadows]

Originally Posted by transjen

A-Rod gets the free pass because he's a fan favorite and he packs em in, He didn't do anything that Bonds didn't do and yet Bonds is seen as a bad guy the difference is Bonds was and is an A-HOLE and not loved by fans
And rember good old Bud was and proably still a team owner for most and even if he really no longer owns the Brewers i believe his daughter is so he won't come down on George or take away one of his top gate players as A-ROD draws fans so a blind eye is turned
If Pete was still able to pack the house you could bet your life savings he would be back in baseball but i dout i live long enought to see Pete get in the hall of fame i will bet that Jose Cansenco will get in before Pete does
Jerseygirl Jen

But A-Rod is not a fan-favourite, Jen. True, he is liked by the Yankee fans, but his actions both off AND on the field have not endeared him at all to most fans.

I am not sure if you remember this incident or not, but a few years ago he knocked the glove off the hand of the pitcher covering first base while he was running down the first base path. Even Jeter, his own teammate, looked at him with a look of utter disbelief. Needless to say, he got called out, and Jeter was forced to remain at first base(I cannot remember who got called out, but I know it basically killed the rally at the time).

Another time, he called out "Mine! Mine! I got it!" while running the basepaths against Toronto a couple of years ago. Even John McDonald was pissed at him(and Johnny Mac never got angry!) for that. He is not a team-player, and I would rather have a player like Derek Jeter any time. Jeter has respect for fans, for his teammates, and most importantly for the game itself.

The only reason A-Rod has popularity is due to the fact that Selig basically swept it all under the rug. I cannot determine who is worse for their respective sport...Bettman or Selig.

I also don't think that Jose Canseco will ever get in the Hall. He has ruffled far too many feathers to get in. He made them look bad in the eyes of the public and they will remember that.

[transjen]

Originally Posted by shadows

I also don't think that Jose Canseco will ever get in the Hall. He has ruffled far too many feathers to get in. He made them look bad in the eyes of the public and they will remember that.

I meant it more as a joke as i know he doesn't deserve to be in the hall of fame as the only impact on baseball he had was he started the whole roids mess, But my real point was that Pete Rose will proably never get in to the hall because of his sports beting when he was manger of the Reds breaking one of the top rules of baseball so i can see why he's banned and can never mange a team agian but he was still a great player and has the all time hits record and should be in the hall based on his career as a player as a player he never threw a game or bet on a game


Jerseygirl Jen

[shadows]

Originally Posted by transjen

I meant it more as a joke as i know he doesn't deserve to be in the hall of fame as the only impact on baseball he had was he started the whole roids mess, But my real point was that Pete Rose will proably never get in to the hall because of his sports beting when he was manger of the Reds breaking one of the top rules of baseball so i can see why he's banned and can never mange a team agian but he was still a great player and has the all time hits record and should be in the hall based on his career as a player as a player he never threw a game or bet on a game


Jerseygirl Jen

Lol. I can be a little thick sometimes.

I'm not sure that Rose will never get into the Hall. I think that someday he will, just not in the format that they do it right now. I think a future Commisioner will actually place him in. It certainly won't be Selig, but I just have a gut feeling that it will happen. Call me a hopeless optimist, I guess. Actually, I have to be to be a Leaf's fan, right?

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by ila

I think the commissioner at the time, team owners, coaches, etc. have got to take some of the blame for the rampant steroid use among the players. Had those in charge not turned a blind eye/encouraged the use/failed to implement drug testing then there would not have been a problem and the players would have had unblemished records. Maybe these players were capable of their feats without drug use, but we'll never know and baseball is the poorer for it.

The fans have lost out and the players have lost out. The only winners, it seems to me, were the team owners. I'm not shocked at this, but I am disappointed.

JEN:

Baseball and sports are only an extension of a society that ups their resume with a keyboard stroke, take people-helping jobs only for the money, and the politicians are the worst of the worst.

TAL

[transjen]

Sorry need to call a foul here
Since we can't talk baseball in the hockey thread then we can't talk hockey in the baseball thread am i rite?
Just bustin your stones you're ok
Jerseygirl Jen

[Talvenada]

SHADOW MAN:

Jose Canseco turns out to be the only honest one of the bunch.


TAL

[shadows]

Originally Posted by transjen

Sorry need to call a foul here
Since we can't talk baseball in the hockey thread then we can't talk hockey in the baseball thread am i rite?
Just bustin your stones you're ok
Jerseygirl Jen

*looks to see if stones are still intact after said bustin'*

Whew! They're okay!

[shadows]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

SHADOW MAN:

Jose Canseco turns out to be the only honest one of the bunch.


TAL

That sure seems to be the case. I always thought that he was being truthful, but it has now come to light just how truthful he was! He knew he was going to be ostracized from the "clique" for writing his book, but he did it anyhow. Was money a motivating factor? Probably it had something to do with it, but I am glad that he brought it to light regardless of the reasons behind it. It caused the users to attempt to scurry back under their rocks, but it was too late. The rocks had already been removed.

I will also admit that I always liked Canseco. He was a hoot to watch, especially in the outfield(remember the ball that bounced off his head and became a homerun when it went over the fence?). He was even a Blue Jay for a while there.

[transjen]

Jose honest?
He need the money and that is the only reason he came out and spilled the beans

Oh Shadows i'm glad your stones are ok
Jerseygirl Jen

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by shadows

. I will also admit that I always liked Canseco. He was a hoot to watch, especially in the outfield(remember the ball that bounced off his head and became a homerun when it went over the fence?). He was even a Blue Jay for a while there.

SHADOW MAN:

I write a blog about Doc's new team: The Phillies, and you might want to check out my work. I have a feeling I'll be writing a lot about him.

@ http://isportsweb.com/

I remember Jason Michaels--when he was a Phillie--trying to make a left-to-right shoestring catch on the leftfield warning track, and, during the swoop he rushed a shade too much, the ball flew out of his not-fully-secured glove and over the fence for a HR. Canseco's head shot was better thought.

TAL

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by transjen

Jose honest?
He need the money and that is the only reason he came out and spilled the beans

Oh Shadows i'm glad your stones are ok
Jerseygirl Jen

JEN:

Honesty for a buck. Wow, how far have we sunk.


TAL

[shadows]

Originally Posted by transjen

Jose honest?
He need the money and that is the only reason he came out and spilled the beans

Oh Shadows i'm glad your stones are ok
Jerseygirl Jen

Thank you for your concern, Jen.

[shadows]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

SHADOW MAN:

I write a blog about Doc's new team: The Phillies, and you might want to check out my work. I have a feeling I'll be writing a lot about him.

@ http://isportsweb.com/

I remember Jason Michaels--when he was a Phillie--trying to make a left-to-right shoestring catch on the leftfield warning track, and, during the swoop he rushed a shade too much, the ball flew out of his not-fully-secured glove and over the fence for a HR. Canseco's head shot was better thought.

TAL

Thanks. I'll check it out. Jen and dauls are Phillie's fans so I imagine that they will take a boo at it as well.

[shadows]

Interesting blogs, Tal. You are quite the Phillie fan, it looks like.

[transjen]

Originally Posted by shadows

Thanks. I'll check it out. Jen and dauls are Phillie's fans so I imagine that they will take a boo at it as well.

Why would i boo? unless Santa Clause is in it
Jerseygirl Jen

[shadows]

Originally Posted by transjen

Why would i boo? unless Santa Clause is in it
Jerseygirl Jen

Don't you like it when Jolly Ol' St. Nick gives you things?

[transjen]

Originally Posted by shadows

Don't you like it when Jolly Ol' St. Nick gives you things?

It's an old joke about Phillies fans that we are so mean we even boo Santa Clause
Jerseygirl Jen

[shadows]

Originally Posted by transjen

It's an old joke about Phillies fans that we are so mean we even boo Santa Clause
Jerseygirl Jen

I never heard that one before. I heard that the Phillie fans could get quite vocal, but I never heard about them booing Santa!

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by shadows

I never heard that one before. I heard that the Phillie fans could get quite vocal, but I never heard about them booing Santa!

SHADOW MAN:

It's threw snowballs at Santa during an Eagles' game, but the Santa-was-drunk part gets left out. Why let facts ruin a good story.

Thnx for checking about my small contribution to the national sports blog.

TAL

[smc]

Jeez, lots of baseball discussion while I was gone. I guess it was a good idea to start this thread.

Just a quick note on booing by Philadelphia fans: October 2008, Sarah Palin at the Flyers game! That was spectacular.

[smc]

On Tuesday, the son of Barry Bonds -- Nikolai, age 20 -- pleaded not guilty in San Mateo County (California) Superior Court to five misdemeanor charges related to a fight with his mother.

Barry was in the courtroom.

The charges go back to December 5. Nikolai Bonds is alleged by police to have thrown a doorknob at mom (Sun Bonds, from whom Barry is divorced) and spit in her face, prevented her from leaving, destroyed property worth about $400, and threatened an officer. The charges are battery, false imprisonment, vandalism, making threats to an officer, and obstructing an officer.

Here in Red Sox Nation, our discussion about this has turned into a debate over what started the fight. Some say it was simple "'roid rage" by Nikolai, following in dad's footsteps. Others say Nikolai and mom were arguing about whether Barry's hat size is 16 or 16-1/2.

(Okay, I made that last part up.)

[transjen]

Nah they were fighting over who's breasts were bigger his or his dads
Jerseygirl Jen

[transjen]

Originally Posted by smc

Just a quick note on booing by Philadelphia fans: October 2008, Sarah Palin at the Flyers game! That was spectacular.

True story my boyfriend and i had tickets for that game he brought them back in Aug before there was any talk of Sarah and family being at the game anyway we decided to sale em as the security would have been a big pain in the butt so we missed out on that dog and pony show
Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

Originally Posted by transjen

Nah they were fighting over who's breasts were bigger his or his dads
Jerseygirl Jen

Good one, Jen ... even better than mine!

But I must say, as someone who appreciates some fine titties, that the thought of Barry Bonds that way makes me want to puke. I hope I can get that image out of my head soon.

[transjen]

Originally Posted by smc

Good one, Jen ... even better than mine!

But I must say, as someone who appreciates some fine titties, that the thought of Barry Bonds that way makes me want to puke. I hope I can get that image out of my head soon.

Perhaps this may help breast development is only one of many possiable side effects so he may not have any, Poor guy fyi haveing breast is great i love mine
Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

Originally Posted by transjen

Perhaps this may help breast development is only one of many possiable side effects so he may not have any, Poor guy fyi haveing breast is great i love mine
Jerseygirl Jen

Two things I'm sure of:

1. If growing breasts requires something as harmful to the rest of the body as steroids, it can't possibly be worth the price.

2. At the risk of being too forward, Jen's are lovely. (Don't get me wrong; I haven't seen them, I'm just speculating.)

At some point, I'll get back to baseball!

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by transjen

Perhaps this may help breast development is only one of many possiable side effects so he may not have any, Poor guy fyi haveing breast is great i love mine
Jerseygirl Jen

JEN:

Could you post your old avatar b4 your cutie got lopped off? It showed your girls if I recall.

TAL

[transjen]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

JEN:

Could you post your old avatar b4 your cutie got lopped off? It showed your girls if I recall.

TAL

That's a photo i'd like to forget as it show a part of me i hated and no long have and fyi it was not cute it was the most hideious thing i ever saw
Jerseygirl Jen

[transjen]

Originally Posted by smc

Two things I'm sure of:

1. If growing breasts requires something as harmful to the rest of the body as steroids, it can't possibly be worth the price.

2. At the risk of being too forward, Jen's are lovely. (Don't get me wrong; I haven't seen them, I'm just speculating.)

At some point, I'll get back to baseball!

Granted most guys would not be happy grewing breasts plus some of the other things that could happen down under

I didn't get my breasts from riods mine were thanks to female hormones and implants and i've been told they look great and i'm happy with em
Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

Originally Posted by transjen

I didn't get my breasts from riods mine were thanks to female hormones and implants and i've been told they look great and i'm happy with em
Jerseygirl Jen

I hope no one thought I was even hinting that they came from steroids -- because the thought never crossed my mind.

And now for some more baseball:

Brad Lidge had what is being called "minor arthroscopic right knee surgery" yesterday. It makes one wonder (as I am sure every Phillies fan is doing): did they take the occasion to install some kind of drama-reduction device in his body so that you Phillies fans can have less of a heart-attack reaction when he's called from the bullpen?!?!

[transjen]

It would explain why he had a lot of trouble closing games last year as his delivery was out of step i'm only wondering why he didn't do this sooner as one of the pitching coachs should have seen his delievery was out of whack
Jerseygirl Jen

The present controversy regarding PED?s in baseball and other professional sports is actually nothing new. Nor is it likely to ?go away? anytime soon. I have been following this thread for a while and hope this post and the links I?ve provided below will help in understanding the current situation. As some of you know from my other posts and PM?s I played defensive end and linebacker in high-school and college, was a personal trainer for a while, and still workout regularly. So I have some first-hand knowledge of this issue. Over the years I witnessed a great deal of ?steroid abuse? and am frankly surprised that it has taken this long for the general public to realize how rampant PED?s are in all of sports. I remember the 1998 baseball season well and telling all my friends that McGwire and Sosa had to be doing something. Of course the reaction I usually got was ?no, man, they?re just big guys!? When I was in junior-high and beginning to lift, I remember asking my coaches about Arnold and Lou Ferrigno and was told ?they just work hard.? Only when I got into organized football later in high-school did PED?s come out into the ?open.? Based on my own experiences, I personally wouldn?t put it past anyone in professional sports (yes, all sports--even golf and basketball) to try using something to get an ?edge?--the stakes are simply too high and the amount of money to be made is unbelievable. Even my beloved Colts are suspect (disclaimer: I have two friends that play for them).

For the record, I have never taken anything that was illegal and couldn?t be purchased at a health food store or someplace like GNC. However I had ample opportunities (especially in college) and seriously considered it. I can?t help but wonder if taking these things would?ve made a difference in my own performance--my major weakness was being ?undersized? and ?slow? for an NFL pass rusher. My college coach wanted me to ?bulk up? to about 290-300 and try playing nose tackle--but looking back I?m glad I never took anything like steroids or HGH. Today, I take Creatine before and after each workout as well as ZMA and protein supplements. I?ll be 40 this year and consider myself to be in the best shape of my life. And my six-figure income as a professor over a twenty or thirty year career will be more than what many NFL players make in a short career. I hope young people think about things like this before they start taking steroids, HGH, or whatever. It?s not worth it--at least I didn?t think so.

What should baseball do about these records? I really don?t know. Really don?t. On one hand, there was clearly ?usage? and records were broken. Was it ?illegal?? ?Unethical?? This isn?t the first time in history PED?s have been used. I have included a couple of links that readers might be interested in. Pud Galvin was the first ?300? game winner. Was he ?jucing?? Read the article, it was considered OK back then. Should Pud be ?banned?? I will admit that the Summer of 1998 was very exciting and I remember watching McGwire hit number 62 with my Dad. Should the records stand? Do you think Big Mac would have hit ?70? without drugs? Would Barry Bonds have hit as many? I personally don?t think so. But I don?t have a good answer for what to do about those records. Maybe all sports records should be viewed in the ?context? of the era that they were set. At least the recent rash of players and bodybuilders ?coming clean? about using steroids brings this issue out into the open where it can be discussed. Now at least we aren?t trying to ?deny? it?s use as when I was a teenager in the 80?s (of course I knew better--so did my teammates--LOL!). Performance ?enhancement? is an area that is not going to go away--it may not be the drugs and supplements used today--but there will always be those seeking to gain an advantage.

Read about ?Pud? here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5314753

Read about ?Dr. Ziegler? here:
http://www.slate.com/id/2113752/

[shadows]

Originally Posted by transjen

It would explain why he had a lot of trouble closing games last year as his delivery was out of step i'm only wondering why he didn't do this sooner as one of the pitching coachs should have seen his delievery was out of whack
Jerseygirl Jen

A lot of players play through pain or injuries. They know that if they miss time during the season, they may lose their spot due to their replacement playing well during their absence.

[transjen]

Originally Posted by aw9725

The present controversy regarding PED’s in baseball and other professional sports is actually nothing new. Nor is it likely to “go away” anytime soon. I have been following this thread for a while and hope this post and the links I’ve provided below will help in understanding the current situation. As some of you know from my other posts and PM’s I played defensive end and linebacker in high-school and college, was a personal trainer for a while, and still workout regularly. So I have some first-hand knowledge of this issue. Over the years I witnessed a great deal of “steroid abuse” and am frankly surprised that it has taken this long for the general public to realize how rampant PED’s are in all of sports. I remember the 1998 baseball season well and telling all my friends that McGwire and Sosa had to be doing something. Of course the reaction I usually got was “no, man, they’re just big guys!” When I was in junior-high and beginning to lift, I remember asking my coaches about Arnold and Lou Ferrigno and was told “they just work hard.” Only when I got into organized football later in high-school did PED’s come out into the “open.” Based on my own experiences, I personally wouldn’t put it past anyone in professional sports (yes, all sports--even golf and basketball) to try using something to get an “edge”--the stakes are simply too high and the amount of money to be made is unbelievable. Even my beloved Colts are suspect (disclaimer: I have two friends that play for them).

For the record, I have never taken anything that was illegal and couldn’t be purchased at a health food store or someplace like GNC. However I had ample opportunities (especially in college) and seriously considered it. I can’t help but wonder if taking these things would’ve made a difference in my own performance--my major weakness was being “undersized” and “slow” for an NFL pass rusher. My college coach wanted me to “bulk up” to about 290-300 and try playing nose tackle--but looking back I’m glad I never took anything like steroids or HGH. Today, I take Creatine before and after each workout as well as ZMA and protein supplements. I’ll be 40 this year and consider myself to be in the best shape of my life. And my six-figure income as a professor over a twenty or thirty year career will be more than what many NFL players make in a short career. I hope young people think about things like this before they start taking steroids, HGH, or whatever. It’s not worth it--at least I didn’t think so.

What should baseball do about these records? I really don’t know. Really don’t. On one hand, there was clearly “usage” and records were broken. Was it “illegal”? “Unethical”? This isn’t the first time in history PED’s have been used. I have included a couple of links that readers might be interested in. Pud Galvin was the first “300” game winner. Was he “jucing”? Read the article, it was considered OK back then. Should Pud be “banned”? I will admit that the Summer of 1998 was very exciting and I remember watching McGwire hit number 62 with my Dad. Should the records stand? Do you think Big Mac would have hit “70” without drugs? Would Barry Bonds have hit as many? I personally don’t think so. But I don’t have a good answer for what to do about those records. Maybe all sports records should be viewed in the “context” of the era that they were set. At least the recent rash of players and bodybuilders “coming clean” about using steroids brings this issue out into the open where it can be discussed. Now at least we aren’t trying to “deny” it’s use as when I was a teenager in the 80’s (of course I knew better--so did my teammates--LOL!). Performance “enhancement” is an area that is not going to go away--it may not be the drugs and supplements used today--but there will always be those seeking to gain an advantage.

Read about “Pud” here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5314753

Read about “Dr. Ziegler” here:
http://www.slate.com/id/2113752/

All we the fans can do about the records set in the riods era is just take it with a geain of salt as it wasn't just one or two players and as Roger Clemons proved pichters were also taking needles in the butt
But sadly in the end these records stand but for all time HR'S yes Bonds has the record but i admire Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth more as they did it the proper way
Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

Dan Shaughnessy, a sports columnist for The Boston Globe, has an interesting column in today's issue on the McGwire matter. I'm not a big fan of Shaughnessy, but it's worth reading his perspective.

Here's a link:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal..._us_roid_rage/

Originally Posted by transjen

All we the fans can do about the records set in the riods era is just take it with a geain of salt as it wasn't just one or two players and as Roger Clemons proved pichters were also taking needles in the butt
But sadly in the end these records stand but for all time HR'S yes Bonds has the record but i admire Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth more as they did it the proper way
Jerseygirl Jen

You know something Jen? I think people will remember Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth years from now and the current players of the "Steroid Era" will long be forgotten.