Baseball

[smc]

The wonderful Hockey thread has had a lot of baseball discussion of late. I suspect there are some members who want to find the excellent updates about matches without having to scroll through me, transjen, and shadows talking about the Red Sox and the Phillies. So, I'm starting this thread for baseball discussion.

I am a baseball fanatic. What I love about baseball the most is what those who "hate" baseball hate the most: its slowness. There's a reason baseball is called "America's pastime." It's not just because of how widely it was played in the 19th century, when it earned that name. It's also because you can pass a lot of time. Unlike clock sports, baseball unfolds at whatever pace a given game has. In between the action of a pitcher throwing the next pitch, for example, a real lover of baseball has the opportunity to speculate/imagine a nearly unlimited number of possibilities. What kind of pitch will he throw? is the batter swinging or taking? Is there a steal on? Should the batter bunt? Should he go for the fences? Is an opposite-field hit in order? Why is the left fielder shading to the right? Should the second baseman or shortstop take a throw to second? Etc. Etc. Etc.

My team is the Red Sox. I've been a rabid Sox fan all of my life. I go to as many games as possible at Fenway, and I rarely miss a game on the radio or TV if I'm not at the ballpark. I travel to other cities to see Sox games, and last season went to Sox games in Baltimore, New York, Cleveland, Toronto, Kansas City, and Oakland.

Let's have a fun and spirited discussion, just like we've been having about hockey.

Go Red Sox!!

[transjen]

UPDATE
A.Dawson made it in to the Baseball Hall of Fame today but poor Bert came ever so close missing the needed 75% by uneder 1%
And still no love for Ron Santo as the vet comittie put in Cards manger and an umpire
And just my opion but
PUT PETE ROSE IN THE HALL !!!!
Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

Blyleven belongs, and so does Robbie Alomar, who missed today, too. And yes, Jen, you are absolutely right: put Pete Rose in the Hall!!!!

[transjen]

I believe this was Robbie's first ballot and it appears there is some kind snubbury towards first ballot trys so perhaps next year, Barry Larkin was snubbed also
update number 2
Randy Johnson just retired, The last 300 game winner for a long long time
Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

Here's the latest from Red Sox Nation:

Sox picked up Adrian Beltre as the new starting 3rd baseman, which means Mike Lowell will be traded or platooned, Kevin Youkilis will stay at his Gold Glove position across the diamond, and Casey Kotchman will not become the starting 1st baseman.

With Jason Bay gone to the Mets, the Sox announced that Jacoby Ellsbury (or "Wonderboy," as I call him) will move to left field and newly acquired Mike Cameron will play center. Ellsbury was reportedly disappointed, but manager Terry Francona makes an excellent point: "The way we're constituted, with [Cameron's] long strides and Jacoby's first-step quickness, it seems that we're set up better that way." Left field is a tough position in Fenway, because you have to learn to read the wall.

[smc]

Originally Posted by transjen

Randy Johnson just retired, The last 300 game winner for a long long time
Jerseygirl Jen

I'd like to have a "Big Unit" pitching to me
but not (ugly) Randy Johnson.

[jdawg]

The Mariners are going to the playoffs this year! Seriously, I see nobody in the west challenging our team. We aren't even finished building the team yet either.


Randy Johnson was such a great pitcher. Him and Griffey will always be among my favorite players. Sad to see a great career come to an end.

[smc]

Maybe Tim Wakefield could be a 300-game winner. He's only got 111 to go, and if his back holds up he could throw the knuckleball for another 10 years!

[jdawg]

Beltre is ace defensively. He's had a real shitty time with injuries though and his offense never really picked up in Seattle. I read that he hated Safeco though which couldve been a reason for the lack of power.

[smc]

Originally Posted by jdawg

Beltre is ace defensively. He's had a real shitty time with injuries though and his offense never really picked up in Seattle. I read that he hated Safeco though which couldve been a reason for the lack of power.

Dave Roberts of stolen-base-against-the-Yankees-that-kept-the-Red-Sox-2004-season-alive fame said of Beltre to the Boston Globe yesterday: "Probably the best defensive player I ever played with. Not just third base, best defensive player, period."

A CORRECTION: I mentioned Casey Kotchman in my earlier Red Sox update. I forgot that he is being dealt to the Mariners (which would not have happened if Beltre had not been signed).

[jdawg]

You guys are getting Bill Hall plus the cash that we got from the Brewers and a minor leaguer. I like the trade for the Mariners as its a nice stop gap solution that could turn into something more. I'm guessing you guys are just trying to get rid of Kotchman and not really expecting much in return.

[smc]

I think I would put it differently: the Red Sox are trying to give Kotchman a chance to be closer to an everyday player (which could happen, eventually, with the Mariners but not in Boston). He was a loyal soldier and filled in nicely when Youk went down in '09. Plus, dealing Casey results in cash for the Beltre deal and keeps the Red Sox close to the luxury-tax threshold.

[ila]

I used to really like baseball. It was an interesting game, but now I rarely watch it because it does take so long to play. The length of time between pitches is interminable and it seems timeouts are too many and too frequent. At one time baseball was an exciting game to listen to on the radio, but now it's one long snorefest.

I realize that it's all about money because the longer it takes to play a game the more revenue is generated from sponsors to the tv stations, but it has killed my love of professional baseball.

[shadows]

Originally Posted by transjen

I believe this was Robbie's first ballot and it appears there is some kind snubbury towards first ballot trys so perhaps next year, Barry Larkin was snubbed also
update number 2
Randy Johnson just retired, The last 300 game winner for a long long time
Jerseygirl Jen

I think Roy Halladay has a chance to become a 300 game winner, I really do. especially since he is on a really good team(*sigh* I'm gonna miss Doc on the Jays) right now!

Wakefield(as smc mentioned) may get there, but I honestly don't see it happening. He has had a lot of injuries the past couple of seasons and I just don't see him keeping it up. Although he does have the advantage of being a knuckleball pitcher, which helps with longevity.

Jennifer, do you remember when Randy Johnson hit the bird with a pitch as he was throwing to home plate? The animal lovers wanted him to be charged, but how the hell was it his fault? The bird just happened to fly across as the ball was in motion! Sometimes I think they need to give their heads a shake.

[smc]

Originally Posted by shadows

Wakefield(as smc mentioned) may get there, but I honestly don't see it happening. He has had a lot of injuries the past couple of seasons and I just don't see him keeping it up. Although he does have the advantage of being a knuckleball pitcher, which helps with longevity.

Surely you must have realized I meant that in jest!

[shadows]

Originally Posted by smc

Surely you must have realized I meant that in jest!

Yep.

I just figured he was the closest Red Sox to the plateau, so what the heck!

[shadows]

Originally Posted by ila

I used to really like baseball. It was an interesting game, but now I rarely watch it because it does take so long to play. The length of time between pitches is interminable and it seems timeouts are too many and too frequent. At one time baseball was an exciting game to listen to on the radio, but now it's one long snorefest.

I realize that it's all about money because the longer it takes to play a game the more revenue is generated from sponsors to the tv stations, but it has killed my love of professional baseball.

The problem are players like A-Roid, Garcioparra, and Jeter(just to name a few) that take forever getting ready between pitches. Adjusting batting gloves(which Garcioparra was notorious for), kicking cleats, taking a deep breath, farting, scratching buttocks, adjusting cup, picking nose, ordering chinese food, belching, etc., etc..

[smc]

Originally Posted by ila

I used to really like baseball. It was an interesting game, but now I rarely watch it because it does take so long to play. The length of time between pitches is interminable and it seems timeouts are too many and too frequent. At one time baseball was an exciting game to listen to on the radio, but now it's one long snorefest.

I realize that it's all about money because the longer it takes to play a game the more revenue is generated from sponsors to the tv stations, but it has killed my love of professional baseball.

Ila, you make excellent points. While my initial post extolled the virtues of baseball's slowness, I don't want to be misconstrued: it has a natural slow pace that is fine, but the addition of more slowness through things like Fox deciding when the next half-inning can start because the commercials aren't over yet makes me want to scream! I would like to see the rules Major League Baseball has made about time between pitches actually enforced.

But even with the enhanced slowness, I still love the game.

[transjen]

Originally Posted by shadows

The problem are players like A-Roid, Garcioparra, and Jeter(just to name a few) that take forever getting ready between pitches. Adjusting batting gloves(which Garcioparra was notorious for), kicking cleats, taking a deep breath, farting, scratching buttocks, adjusting cup, picking nose, ordering chinese food, belching, etc., etc..

True but that's all part of the game, What would you suggest a delay of game penalty like in football[NFL football]
Jerseygirl Jen

[transjen]

Originally Posted by shadows

I think Roy Halladay has a chance to become a 300 game winner, I really do. especially since he is on a really good team(*sigh* I'm gonna miss Doc on the Jays) right now!


Jennifer, do you remember when Randy Johnson hit the bird with a pitch as he was throwing to home plate? The animal lovers wanted him to be charged, but how the hell was it his fault? The bird just happened to fly across as the ball was in motion! Sometimes I think they need to give their heads a shake.

As long as he wins 300 for the Phillies

I was never a Randy Johnson fan but you have to give him credit for his great career so i'll tip my cap to him and say he's proably the last 300 game winner as the teams now depend on the bullpen more and more and the 5 and 6 man rotation

Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

I bet some catchers would like a penalty for farting while at the plate. One of the girls I used to coach in softball once told me that there was a girl on another team who farted every time she took a swing!

[transjen]

Originally Posted by smc

I bet some catchers would like a penalty for farting while at the plate. One of the girls I used to coach in softball once told me that there was a girl on another team who farted every time she took a swing!

Guess she was a crappy player
Jerseygirl Jen

[shadows]

Originally Posted by transjen

True but that's all part of the game, What would you suggest a delay of game penalty like in football[NFL football]
Jerseygirl Jen

No, but they should be fined. Some of those delays are beyond ridiculous.

[shadows]

Originally Posted by smc

I bet some catchers would like a penalty for farting while at the plate. One of the girls I used to coach in softball once told me that there was a girl on another team who farted every time she took a swing!

Maybe she was hoping for a passed ball due to passing wind.

[jdawg]

I really don't mind the delays. They can be annoying, but every player has his own routine and you could really mess up a player by screwing with his routine. if I don't do certain things while watching a game and the Mariners lose, I blame myself. I could only imagine how a player would feel if his routine was fined.

[smc]

Originally Posted by jdawg

I really don't mind the delays. They can be annoying, but every player has his own routine and you could really mess up a player by screwing with his routine. if I don't do certain things while watching a game and the Mariners lose, I blame myself. I could only imagine how a player would feel if his routine was fined.

I must say, my favorite thing about watching a Mariners game is hearing the trains in the background. It always gives me a warm feeling, as if baseball were being played in "olden" times.

[dauls]

Originally Posted by smc

The wonderful Hockey thread has had a lot of baseball discussion of late. I suspect there are some members who want to find the excellent updates about matches without having to scroll through me, transjen, and shadows talking about the Red Sox and the Phillies. So, I'm starting this thread for baseball discussion.

I am a baseball fanatic. What I love about baseball the most is what those who "hate" baseball hate the most: its slowness. There's a reason baseball is called "America's pastime." It's not just because of how widely it was played in the 19th century, when it earned that name. It's also because you can pass a lot of time. Unlike clock sports, baseball unfolds at whatever pace a given game has. In between the action of a pitcher throwing the next pitch, for example, a real lover of baseball has the opportunity to speculate/imagine a nearly unlimited number of possibilities. What kind of pitch will he throw? is the batter swinging or taking? Is there a steal on? Should the batter bunt? Should he go for the fences? Is an opposite-field hit in order? Why is the left fielder shading to the right? Should the second baseman or shortstop take a throw to second? Etc. Etc. Etc.

My team is the Red Sox. I've been a rabid Sox fan all of my life. I go to as many games as possible at Fenway, and I rarely miss a game on the radio or TV if I'm not at the ballpark. I travel to other cities to see Sox games, and last season went to Sox games in Baltimore, New York, Cleveland, Toronto, Kansas City, and Oakland.

Let's have a fun and spirited discussion, just like we've been having about hockey.

Go Red Sox!!

smc, you started a baseball thread and in little over 4 hours it's already up to 26 posts.

As a fan of another game of slowness, cricket, it's clear I was always going to be an instant convert to baseball. I just had to learn the rules and jargon of the game. And then try to pick up the various strategies and oddities... why/when attempt to steal, why would a batter intentionally get out (the sac fly), that a pitcher can only enter the game for one batter and possibly only one pitch, when to bunt, etc.

But if you think baseball has a nice slow pace, try Test Match Cricket (the five day version of the game). You play roughly 6 hours per day, and after five days you can still have a drawn match. Sometimes, for one team, holding on for the draw actually feels like a win.

England clung on for the draw in the 1st Test Match against South Africa just before Xmas, and today they are aiming to do it again in the 3rd Test. Fortunately we thrashed the South Africans in the 2nd Test.

In recent years to speed cricket up a bit, a new version of the game was invented, called Twenty20, when batting each team faces a maximum of 120 deliveries. The game should only last approx 3 to 3.5 hours, suitable for fans to watch on a summer evening after work.


Note: Less than 100 days until the start of the 2010 regular season.

[smc]

Originally Posted by dauls

But if you think baseball has a nice slow pace, try Test Match Cricket (the five day version of the game). You play roughly 6 hours per day, and after five days you can still have a drawn match. Sometimes, for one team, holding on for the draw actually feels like a win.

Hey, dauls, thanks for your post. I've actually played cricket. I went to college at a very, very small liberal arts school that happens to be just across the street from the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland. A high school acquaintance was at the Academy concurrently, so we kept in touch. There was a group of "exchange students" there who were junior officers in the Royal Navy, and they were looking to organize some cricket matches. They were having a very hard time getting U.S. Navy guys interested, so my friend came by and asked me -- he knew I am a big fan of baseball -- whether I wanted to learn and play. I said yes, enthusiastically, and helped find others until we were able to organize a first match over a weekend about a month later. We played Test and determined that we'd start on Saturday, play on Sunday as well, and at the end we'd decide whether to continue if the match "technically" wasn't yet over.

It was a great time. And we did it a few more times over the year.

An important point about "slowness": a large part of cricket's slowness is actually "duration." Breaks for lunch, tea, drinks ... those all make the game take longer. No one was slowing the match while waiting for some TV ad to be completed.

[dauls]

Originally Posted by smc

Hey, dauls, thanks for your post. I've actually played cricket...

An important point about "slowness": a large part of cricket's slowness is actually "duration." Breaks for lunch, tea, drinks ... those all make the game take longer. No one was slowing the match while waiting for some TV ad to be completed.

Funny to hear you've played cricket, that's not something I hear too many Americans saying they've done.

TV imposing on the game is one thing that appears to be different in England compared with North America. Over here TV doesn't dictate the play of the game and in cricket the TV company has to sneak advert breaks in at the change of ends between the overs bowled or during mid-session drinks breaks.

In North America play seems to stop when TV needs it to and won't restart until the ad break has finished.

Quite often a hurried return to the cricket happens just after the ball has been bowled, but then there is plenty of time before the next ball to show a replay of the delivery you just missed.


The 3rd Test Match has just finished and England have clung on for the draw again. We were down to our last wicket for the final 17 balls.

This draw happened in almost an identical manner to the 1st Test where England's last wicket survived for the final 19 balls.

The South Africans must be gutted that they have drawn two matches that they were only one wicket (out) away from winning the game.

So that leaves England 1-0 up in the Series with only one Test Match to go. So England can't lose the Series now, but a Series win away in South Africa will be a fantastic achievement for England.

[smc]

Major League Baseball has announced that Commissioner Bud Selig is going to in a week or so with the Special Committee for On-Field Matters, which has some veteran managers (Tony La Russa, Jim Leyland, Mike Scioscia, and Joe Torre), GMs, club owners, and team presidents. Among the topics are schedules, playoff formats, umpiring, game pace, and instant replay.

I'm hoping they address -- and fix -- the ridiculous postseason schedule, with all the wasted open dates.

[dauls]

Originally Posted by smc

Major League Baseball has announced that Commissioner Bud Selig is going to in a week or so with the Special Committee for On-Field Matters, which has some veteran managers (Tony La Russa, Jim Leyland, Mike Scioscia, and Joe Torre), GMs, club owners, and team presidents. Among the topics are schedules, playoff formats, umpiring, game pace, and instant replay.

I'm hoping they address -- and fix -- the ridiculous postseason schedule, with all the wasted open dates.

Those wasted open dates are surely down to the TV schedules. So I doubt your wish will come true.

The last three years has seen Game 1 of the World Series moved back to Wednesdays to boost sagging ratings. This avoids having a game on poorly watched Friday nights, and means play on both days of the weekend. I suppose the only TV schedule nightmare for comes on Monday when a Game 5 goes head-to-head with Monday Night Football.

In the earlier postseason rounds the teams wanted the extra days off for travel. But surely playing baseball in November can't be right.

[smc]

Originally Posted by dauls

Those wasted open dates are surely down to the TV schedules. So I doubt your wish will come true.

The last three years has seen Game 1 of the World Series moved back to Wednesdays to boost sagging ratings. This avoids having a game on poorly watched Friday nights, and means play on both days of the weekend. I suppose the only TV schedule nightmare for comes on Monday when a Game 5 goes head-to-head with Monday Night Football.

In the earlier postseason rounds the teams wanted the extra days off for travel. But surely playing baseball in November can't be right.

You are wise to doubt that the postseason schedules will be fixed, but I think the reason for some optimism is that players and managers -- without exception -- have complained. Usually, there are a few players and managers who "make a stink" about something, and everyone else has "no comment." But not on this issue. So maybe change will come, TV sponsors be damned!

[ila]

Originally Posted by dauls

.....England clung on for the draw in the 1st Test Match against South Africa just before Xmas, and today they are aiming to do it again in the 3rd Test. Fortunately we thrashed the South Africans in the 2nd Test.

I rarely follow cricket, but am I right to think that it was only a few years ago that India was a dominant force in international cricket play?

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by transjen

True but that's all part of the game, What would you suggest a delay of game penalty like in football[NFL football]
Jerseygirl Jen

JEN:

What team do you follow? Phillies, Yankees, Mets, other or none?


TAL

[transjen]

PHILLIES!!!!!
Jerseygirl Jen

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by transjen

PHILLIES!!!!!
Jerseygirl Jen

JEN:

I'm from Philly and I cover The Phillies on a fairly new national blog @ http://isportsweb.com/ under MLB, baseball, NL East & Phillies. That's why I asked. I try to write from the perspective of a baseball man (not me), and what management is thinking in the decision-making process.

TAL

[shadows]

Originally Posted by smc

You are wise to doubt that the postseason schedules will be fixed, but I think the reason for some optimism is that players and managers -- without exception -- have complained. Usually, there are a few players and managers who "make a stink" about something, and everyone else has "no comment." But not on this issue. So maybe change will come, TV sponsors be damned!

I hope that will be the case. Playing baseball into November(the last game the previous season was on November 4th to be exact) is ridiculous.

[dauls]

Originally Posted by ila

I rarely follow cricket, but am I right to think that it was only a few years ago that India was a dominant force in international cricket play?

Currently India are the #1 team in Test Cricket, they made it to #1 for the first time in December 2009. Before that South Africa were briefly #1 from Aug '09 to Dec '09.

This ranking system only started in June 2003 and for the first 6 years 2 months Australia were #1.

England are only #5, and it will take a couple of years before they have a chance of challenging for the #1 spot. However their Ashes Series win last summer and current 1-0 series lead after the 3rd of a 4 Test Match Series in South Africa will help improve England's ranking.

As for One Day International Cricket I those damn Aussies are still #1 in the World. India are #2 and again England are #5.

One cricket fact to surprise you is that before England played Australia in the first official Test Match in 1877, the first international cricket match took place 25th-27th Sept. 1844 in Bloomingdale Park, Manhattan, New York between the USA and Canada.

The Canadians won the game. 10,000+ people watched it and an estimated $100,000 was bet on the match. Canada also won both a home and an away game against the USA in 1845.

Before the American Civil War cricket was by far the biggest sport in the USA. Cricket effectively became a victim of that war.
Without the Civil War, would baseball be where it is today?

[Hedonistman]

I really have no clue if cricket was ever played much in the US,, but I seriously hope it wasn't, lol. Some sports should be all nationalistic.. Cricket sure fits for Brits,,,, and Baseball is as Yankee as it gets.... I just can't see any stiff upper lip Brit chewing and spittin' tobaceee....and what a mess it'd make on those fine white uniforms.....

[smc]

I see that the Texas Rangers have hired former Red Sox catcher Bill Hasselman to be a manager in the minor leagues. It cannot be overstated: catchers make excellent managers!

[transjen]

Perhaps this is a little off topic, but i rember a tv show that Stared Johnny Beach and a bunch of young little league players and a guy dressed like a chicken the show aired back in the early 80s and i rember watching it when i was 5 or 6 but i can't rember what it was called anyone else rember this show and no it was not THIS WEEK IN BASEBALL that was a whole differnt show
Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

Originally Posted by transjen

Perhaps this is a little off topic, but i rember a tv show that Stared Johnny Beach and a bunch of young little league players and a guy dressed like a chicken the show aired back in the early 80s and i rember watching it when i was 5 or 6 but i can't rember what it was called anyone else rember this show and no it was not THIS WEEK IN BASEBALL that was a whole differnt show
Jerseygirl Jen

Hey, Jen -- It was "The Baseball Bunch" and it was the San Diego Chicken along with Johnny Bench. Here's a link to the Wikipedia page to help you take a more focused trip down memory lane:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Baseball_Bunch

[transjen]

Thanks, That's the show wonder if youtube has any clips or better yet a full episode, I had no idea the chicken suit guy was the San Diego chicken i just rembered the annoying chicken suit guy
Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

Originally Posted by transjen

Thanks, That's the show wonder if youtube has any clips or better yet a full episode, I had no idea the chicken suit guy was the San Diego chicken i just rembered the annoying chicken suit guy
Jerseygirl Jen

Annoying, yes! But did you know that The Sporting News named the San Diego Chicken as one of the 100 most powerful "people" in sports for the 20th century?!

Jen, put "San Diego Chicken" in a YouTube search and your wish will be fulfilled, many times over.

[shadows]

Originally Posted by smc

Annoying, yes! But did you know that The Sporting News named the San Diego Chicken as one of the 100 most powerful "people" in sports for the 20th century?!

Jen, put "San Diego Chicken" in a YouTube search and your wish will be fulfilled, many times over.

Be careful what you wish for, Jen.

[smc]

The big news in the baseball world is Mark McGwire's admission that he used steroids, including in 1998 when he broke the MLB single-season home run record.

Anyone with a functioning brain and functioning eyes and even the most cursory knowledge of what steroids can do to a man's physiology already knew that McGwire was a user.

McGwire is doing an interview tonight with Bob Costas to discuss his admission. It will be broadcast on MLB Network at 7 p.m. ET and simulcast at MLB.com.

I hear Barry Bonds is planning to have his head shrunk and then do a similar interview in which he will obfuscate about every steroids-related question. (Okay, I made that last part up.)

[shadows]

It is good that he finally admitted what we all knew. Anyone that thought he was clean should take their head out of the sand and look around. It was not called the "Steroid Era" for nothing. We would be knocked off our feet if we ever found out the real amount of users during that "era".

Barry Bonds? He is a jackass, as is Clemens. They are not fooling anyone! The reason I dislike the two of them, and don't mind McGuire is the fact that Big Mac at least treated the fans like people and not minor annoyances(when they played).

I agree with the big-head syndrome of Bonds. Looking at video/pictures of him from his Pittsburgh days to the same from his San Francisco days is like looking at night and day! Totally different! His head got a least 3x bigger! He used to be a contact hitter who would steal a lot of bases and hit a few home runs. Then he magically became a power hitter that could hit 77 home runs? Sorry, but that record is one that actually deserves an asterisk beside it.

[smc]

Originally Posted by shadows

It is good that he finally admitted what we all knew. Anyone that thought he was clean should take their head out of the sand and look around. It was not called the "Steroid Era" for nothing. We would be knocked off our feet if we ever found out the real amount of users during that "era".

Barry Bonds? He is a jackass, as is Clemens. They are not fooling anyone! The reason I dislike the two of them, and don't mind McGuire is the fact that Big Mac at least treated the fans like people and not minor annoyances(when they played).

I agree with the big-head syndrome of Bonds. Looking at video/pictures of him from his Pittsburgh days to the same from his San Francisco days is like looking at night and day! Totally different! His head got a least 3x bigger! He used to be a contact hitter who would steal a lot of bases and hit a few home runs. Then he magically became a power hitter that could hit 77 home runs? Sorry, but that record is one that actually deserves an asterisk beside it.

I'm watching the Mark McGwire interview right now on MLB Network and I must admit that as much as I despise steroid use and how it has affected baseball, I feel a bit of sympathy for him. Never for Bonds or Clemens!

[shadows]

Originally Posted by smc

I'm watching the Mark McGwire interview right now on MLB Network and I must admit that as much as I despise steroid use and how it has affected baseball, I feel a bit of sympathy for him. Never for Bonds or Clemens!

I'm glad to see that I am not the only one who feels that way. Thanks!

[dauls]

I left this 'off-topic' post on the hockey thread about a month ago...

Originally Posted by dauls

I'm surprised Mark McGwire gets less flak than Barry Bonds. McGwire refused to discuss the issue at the Congressional hearing, repeating "I'm not here to discuss the past," and "I will be considered guilty no matter what I say."

At least this speculation does seem to be having an affect on McGwire's election to the Hall of Fame, his percentage at the ballot fell below 25% in 2009.

After he broke the home run record in 1998, I remember reading a story which mentioned his taking steroids (in a UK paper, I remember it because baseball stories are so rare in our papers, the comments may have evolved from the US media).
I couldn't believe it was out there and he could still play. Then I found out that baseball didn't have a drug testing policy, amazing when you think they've been testing NFL players, track & field athletes and cyclists for over 20 years.

Unfortunately I never kept that newspaper clipping.
The baseball show on British TV only picked on Bonds and a few others, but not McGwire.
And I never read anything else about McGwire and steroids, even though he looked like 'Arnie's big brother' at the end of his career.

So I begun to think that maybe that newspaper article was a figment of my imagination. Thanks for posting this, at least I now know I'm not totally mad.

OK McGwire may have presented himself as a nicer person than Bonds, but the bottom line is he was a drugs cheat. He was a role model to thousands of kids, but he was another one of the potential catalysts for them to be 'juiced' by unscrupulous coaches. Coaches who saw great potential in a youngster, but knew steroids could be used to make the difference and help the youngster stand out from the others.

Drugs need to be kept out of sport for the sake of the under 18s. Once you are an adult you can do what you want to yourself, and if you get caught, accept your punishment and shut the fck up.

As you've probably guessed by now, I have no sympathy for McGwire. I put him in the same group as Bonds, Sosa, A-Rod, Clemens, Jos? Canseco, etc. You're either clean or a cheat.

It'd be nice if we could go back to the good old days, with Roger Maris' 61 and Hank Aaron's 755 as the home run records. Shame we can't.

It's also a shame that Ken Griffey Jr. has missed so much of is career through injury, and he won't be able to stop cheating A-Rod from setting the career home run record. Hopefully Albert Pujols can carry on for long enough to catch A-Rod and pass him.