Grumblings

[Bionca]

OK I have been seeing this guy very casually. One-on-one he's swell and I think he likes me. He actually broke things off with me earlier because he liked me "too much" and wasn't expecting to. He came back and wanted to explore stuff slowly (including a dating relationship). His brother is gay and he hangs out with him and his gay guy friends - we actually met at a gay club because one of my friends used to date his brother's bf. So he's not unaware or particularly squicked about the whole "am I gay" thing I don't think.

My issue is.. His personality changes when we are in public. He is pretty distant in public and his way of interacting with people is to tease them and poke fun. Usually this isn't a big deal.. just the way he is. The thing is he doesn't exactly know when to stop it with me and I'm not sure where the humor ends and where veiled insults start.

New Years Eve we all went out. His brother and friends and a few of my guy's str8 friends (who may or may not know I'm Trans*). I got my guy to dance with me at midnight - then... His brother drunkenly stated "You and your drag queen need to go get a room" and called me a "Hot tranny mess". when I gave him a questioning look.

My fella then started in with the "drag queen" comments AND started to tell his str8 friends about my penis - odd since he was insistent that I not mention anything to them before. My feelings were hurt, but I'm more confused than anything. On one hand, he was comfortable enough to tell his friends (graphically and rather pornographically about our sex life). On the other his comments didn't exactly show the level of "having my back" that I would have preferred and left me feeling like he thinks I'm just a guy in a dress.. or a "fag with tits".

Any thoughts?

[ahoj7720]

I cannot stand public humiliation on others... It makes me feel very sick... There's no reason for letting anybody be rude or even insulting to you...
My thoughts...
Best wishes for 2009!

[franalexes]

A person that deliberately hurts your feelings, does not love you. Love is not emotion. Love is an action word. Watch his actions. It sounds like his public talk is a defense mechanism to keep himself from being identified as "too close to you". he hasn't settled the TS issue within himself. How could he possibly settle it with you?
I knew a person like this once. The last time we had contact it was with his fist. I never felt loved by anyone that always put me down.
Love is an action word.
To be loved is to be the object of great joy, not something to be placed aside.
Love is an action word.
Love is to be a treasure that is proudly shown to the world, not something to be ashamned of and hidden.
Love is an action word.

[ila]

Oh my gosh Bionca, my heart aches for you. That is not love. That is not even friendship. It was very callow of him to bring up your personal affairs at all. Drinking is no excuse either. It should be left to you as to what you want to reveal and when. That is not someone who has your best interests in mind nor will he ever protect you the way he should. His brother was also very rude, to put it mildly.

[Amy]

I'm going with the DTMFA consensus here.

[randolph]

Dear Bionca,
You sound like such a nice lovable person. The male ego can be cruel and insensitive. His behavior suggests that he is very unsure of his own male identity, actually goes for all male egos, the more macho they are the more insecure they are. I hope you can find a kind gentle male lover that is comfortable with who you are. They are out there but not many in bars.

[cham]

You are too good for him. Dump him!

Cham

[jimmyblaze1]

first off I'd just like to say WOW you're stunning!

2ndly, this guy sounds pretty insecure in himself and his choice to be with you...not secure enough in himself to just cast off the jokes his brother etc makes and tell him to knock it off like he should.
Maybe he does actually tell the truth - that he DOES really like you BUT my guess is he's gone into that "scared little boy who makes bad stupid judgements" mode...I reckon so.
Sad...maybe talk to him about it? Yes I reckon this option...if you like him more than "very casual" as you say, which I think you might as you've let it get to you this much, then talk to him kitten =/

The saying shit about your sexlife while drunk?...well - just a stupid macho thing us guys do...surprised it's in FRONT of you, not when you weren't around but hey.
I first skimmed this and was like WOAH his brother sounds like a complete DICK! Then I read his brothers gay, and changed my mind...
HE'S A BITCH! lol, I've seen this before a bit - a fair bunch of gays think ill of trannies, same with lesbians...they're just idiots, pay no attention, you're beautiful. And you should know that! Why else would you post such a radiant pic as your Avatar? huh?

Anyways these are far from words of wisdom I'm too tired to really be eloquent, but if you like him talk, if you think about it and it's NOT worth it and you'd be better off without then move on.
Take care, hope everything goes alright either way :D

[lopey]

That is such a total bummer.

It may seem like a needle in a haystack thing to find the right guy, but this one really doesn't seem to be the one.

Holidays can be a time when the worst of people come out, but if it is possible, it might be best to be direct, and find out whether it is worth pursuing.

best wishes

[fatbloke]

I think this is just so new to him,he dos'nt know how to act.Sounds like he has a real mixed bubberling pot of thoughts and emotions.Talk to him,ask him what he wants,how he feels,tell him what you want,if you want to give him another chance ,give it,but don't make a habit of it.
His brother is a complete bitch,i would of made him wear his testicles for earings.As for the humiliating way he spoke to his friends about your sex life,thats just overcompensating,like when a guy starts going out with a girl who is not to popular or considerd cool,he makes it sound like they mean nothing to them,it's another fuck,which is a bloody mean thing to do,to hurt someone just so you appear cool.
If he hurts you again tho,drop the worhless piece of shit.

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by Bionca

PART ONE: My issue is.. His personality changes when we are in public. He is pretty distant in public and his way of interacting with people is to tease them and poke fun.

PART TWO: New Years Eve we all went out. His brother and friends and a few of my guy's str8 friends (who may or may not know I'm Trans*). I got my guy to dance with me at midnight - then... His brother drunkenly stated "You and your drag queen need to go get a room" and called me a "Hot tranny mess". when I gave him a questioning look.

PART THREE: My fella then started in with the "drag queen" comments AND started to tell his str8 friends about my penis - odd since he was insistent that I not mention anything to them before. My feelings were hurt, but I'm more confused than anything. On one hand, he was comfortable enough to tell his friends (graphically and rather pornographically about our sex life).

BIONCA:

PART ONE: His personality changes in public WITH YOU, because he is very subconscious of your trans status. He is being guarded by showing extreme care with his words and actions, which means he is not 100% comfortable with only a str8 appearance. The fear of being found out, leading to public humiliation.

PART TWO: Gay brother with alcohol reveals his true feelings about his so-called str8 brother's hypocrisy, and his feelings about your trans status in the gay community.

PART THREE: Defense mechanism in survival mode to the maxx!!

He PRETENDS to have no problem you are a tranny/drag queen, and PRETENDS he's using you for only sex, as this big macho dude. Why? His str8 friends cannot come at him as being gay, because he is knowingly sexing a tranny as a macho sex machine to be envied. He hasn't been found out, because he's not hiding--at least, that's the image he's projecting after being exposed by his brother.

PART FOUR: I use tranny & drag queen for effect only, because that's what the brothers (plural) are indicating by their words and actions as you've described.

PART FIVE: Now that the surprise in your panties has jumped out, like a jack in the box, bf might be more comfortable with his tgf down the road apiece.


Hope this helped you make sense of your situation,


TAL

[orion]

Hi Bionca ..

Nice to meet you .. If I may throw in my two-pennyworth (as a newcomer) ..

I'd have to agree that your Guy is showing classic defensive symptoms ..

His eagerness to taunt people & poke fun is like a "pre-emptive strike" .. He's getting "his" in first, thus wrong-footing them so that they don't question him too closely .. I'd say he's pretty insecure about his own sexuality ..

I must disagree that all Male egos are alike .. that's like saying that all T-Girls are alike .. and we all know that just isn't true .. each & every one of us is unique .. some Men are totally secure in their sexual identity (me for one) .. I'm not in the least ashamed of having a Pre-op TS Girlfriend & in fact want her to meet my family .. She is, understandably a little hesitant ..

Neither do I consider myself to be Gay .. I'm just a normal bloke who happens to prefer the company of Transgendered women & who has been fortunate enough to meet a T-Girl with whom I've fallen in love ..

My advice would be to "front him out" (English expression) for telling him how hurtful his inane comments can be .. and that if he doesn't pack it in .. He'll get the "Spanish Archer" (El Bow) .. another bit of English humour ..

Take care & Good luck,

Bye for now,

Orion ..

[marlowe]

Originally Posted by Bionca

Any thoughts?

I saw the title of this thread and thought you might be having some stomach problems after an over indulgent holiday period!

Seriously though - and thinking positively - you need to have a talk with this guy about his behaviour. You write "One-on-one he's swell and I think he likes me" and whilst you don't say anything specifically I guess you must like him somewhat to have got this far.

Previous posts pretty much cover the ground speculating why he should behave like this: insecurity about having a relationship with a trans girl; drunkenly and tactlessly thinking he's being funny; egged on to join in with what he thinks is acceptable "gay" banter; revealing a sadistic streak and the truth of how he sees you. It could be any of these or a mixture of them - he wouldn't be the first guy to say hurtful and stupid things towards his partner!

You should find the moment to have the conversation with him and let him know what you felt. If he's not willing to talk about it, or can't see how his behaviour was hurtful, then yes - dump him and move on. But you never know, maybe something good will come of talking and the relationship will be strengthened and grow.

As WS said - "The course of true love never did run smooth".
(Well that might be being excessively positive!)

[new believer]

Dear B. You already know the answer, he's an asshole. Cut him loose if you haven't already. Before love, comes respect. Sounds like he only respects his pricks desires. Friendship, even casual times together, means being thoughtful of the other. I know two co workers who are 'good' friends but constantly belittle each other. I think I'm the one confused if that's friendship.

[orion]

Regarding the previous post .. I can identify with "good" friends taking the mickey out of each other .. there's an old adage which says .. "You can only be rude to your friends" ..

Being former Military, I grew up in a world where taking a rise from one's "Mates" was the norm .. to others less close, one was merely polite ..

I think there's a huge difference between good-natured leg-pulling & even good-natured insults between close friends & remarks made with the deliberate intention of point-scoring or hurting someone's feelings .. especially if done with the intention of trying to make oneself look good at someone else's expense ..

Just my "take" on the subject ..

Bye for now,

Orion ..

[Amy]

In summation of this thread so far, I reiterate;


DTMFA.

[hankhavelock]

I really don't know what to say, Bionca. I guess I'm as confused as you are.

But it would suggest that he still has his "reservations" when in public and when confronted with the fact that his str8 friends suddenly "find out..."

One thing is looking a gorgeous trans woman into her beautiful eyes when alone with her and assuring her one's total love and respect - to most guys it's apparently another to keep up the enthusiasm when the public spotlight is on...

He may have been drunk, he may be a bit of a joker - shoot, even I cannot RESIST to joke about the core values with my transsexual lovers and friends. I do believe I manage to keep my joking within the boundaries of dignity, though.

Check him out and take it up with him - but also don't be too sensitive. Joking can also be his way to deal with something that for him may be a bit of a taboo.

Happy new year, Mizzy B!

Mmmwwwaa!

H

[Arthur]

Hi Bionica sounds like you need a hug first

I can only compare with how I related to my wife during our courting phase many years ago.

At the time I was out a lot with male friends and members of a climbing and outdoor club. It was a very macho environment, no one was married and girlfriends were talked about but rarely invited to the guys nights out. When I started to bring my 'then girlfriend' to the nights out the guys began to get a bit upset and after several weeks they asked me not to invite her.

Now I had several previous relationships with girls, one of them serious enough to get engaged. One thing I realised was that for me personally, finding a partner that liked/loved me was not enough. I needed someone to be a soul mate, someone who could share in my interests and hobbies, had their own interests that I could get involved in, but also was strongly independent. Essentially I made a shopping list without compromise and decided that until I met that criteria, then any friendships would be purely on an open/sex free footing. It was bloody hard thing to do but worked out well.

Now, back to my nights out with my mates. I told them I understood and gave them a choice. Either they were happy for my 'best mate' to come out with them, or I would go my own way and find mates who were happy for her to be with me. Anyway they settled down and decided they could just about see her as 'one of the lads', which eventually ended up with them all just enjoying her company as an equal.

It must be very difficult for you because in reality your posts indicate for all intents and purposes you are a Female with a Penis. Going looking for a str8 Male is certainly going to be difficult. But, there will definitely be someone out there for you, it's just a matter of being really choosy. Someone who will make the same commitment I did when I met my wife to be. If they don't show that, then they are unlikely to support you in the future when the going gets tough.......and blimey, even in a standard MF partnership it gets pretty rocky even when you are both very close.

So, what does your gut instinct tell you ? When you put aside your hopes and dreams, do you look at your new partner as a rock of support, an island of calm and love, someone who can share your craziest ideas, worst habits and out of control hobbies. Someone who would turn their backs on friends and family if they needed to ??

[black nylons]

what a selfish heartless fuck
put a arm round ya and chuddle xxxxxxxxxxxx

[timshield]

sounds to me like he was rly rly drunk

if he didn want to mension youre sexuality infront of his friends earlier

[Bionca]

Thanks everyone - it seems the main theme is to talk it over with him (or just dump him). To be fair to him, he is a Marine, and poking fun and insulting with his friends is just the way they bond. I can take a good rib and give it right back as well as anyone. Part of the issue is me needing to tell him when he's over stepped my boundaries and I need to talk about that.

The larger issue is, I need to be able to count on my guy to stick up for me if I'm being insulted, not sit back while I'm being insulted (and by non-action agreeing to the insults). While I can defend myself, some help is always appreciated... and it just seems that respect would dictate that he at some point he would have told his brother to lay off.

I'm not so pressed about him discussing our sex life (and to be honest I only caught part of the discussion and it *was* positive). After all, he is part of it too. It was probably the combination of teasing+brother insults+sex-talk that sent me into a WTF moment.

I also think he is insecure about his feelings. He had that fantasy, and I did a rather good job on his first time (if I say so myself). I'm also pretty easy to like. I think he's afraid because he likes me more than he expected and he's trying to get his mind around that. *sigh* maybe I'm just giving more benefit of the doubt than he's worth... grumbles

[jimmyblaze1]

Originally Posted by Bionca

The larger issue is, I need to be able to count on my guy to stick up for me if I'm being insulted, not sit back while I'm being insulted (and by non-action agreeing to the insults). .....and it just seems that respect would dictate that he at some point he would have told his brother to lay off.

Yes I think you should really tell him it wasn't OK for him to not punch his bro on the arm and say "STFU"...lol

Originally Posted by Bionca

I'm not so pressed about him discussing our sex life (and to be honest I only caught part of the discussion and it *was* positive). After all, he is part of it too.

I think it's only natural to do this...it's a male showing off thing, and man he's a lucky guy - you're so pretty! Maybe not in front of you though, or change the tone in front of you =/.

Originally Posted by Bionca

I also think he is insecure about his feelings. He had that fantasy, and I did a rather good job on his first time (if I say so myself). I'm also pretty easy to like. I think he's afraid because he likes me more than he expected and he's trying to get his mind around that. *sigh* maybe I'm just giving more benefit of the doubt than he's worth... grumbles

Yes, trying to get your head around ANYTHING can be a bitch...and I think it shows he likess you even more because of his actions...that sounds stupid, but if he's acting out it's coz he's really into you and is trying to sort it out in his head, otherwise he'd just give ya the cold shoulder, be more straight with you.
Take it easy, have a chat and ride this as long as it will go. He may not be the one, he may be...just do right by yourself. <3

[franalexes]

Well, a gurl's gotta do what a gurl's gotta do. I would have talked to him about as long as it would have taken me to put my cowboy boots into his crotch. But, not my call.
Dating a marine is sometimes like taking modern medicine. You have to like abdominal pain and diarhea.
If I had options, I'd sure take a hard look at them.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by franalexes

Well, a gurl's gotta do what a gurl's gotta do. I would have talked to him about as long as it would have taken me to put my cowboy boots into his crotch. But, not my call.
Dating a marine is sometimes like taking modern medicine. You have to like abdominal pain and diarhea.
If I had options, I'd sure take a hard look at them.

I like your attitude. Would you like to wrestle? Boots on or off?

[franalexes]

Sometimes I kick thou that's not nice.
Better cross your legs or pay the price.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by franalexes

Sometimes I kick thou that's not nice.
Better cross your legs or pay the price.

If I cross my legs, I cant run.
don't want to lose out on a lotta fun.

[franalexes]

Your brain by thought may be insane,
invision thee not in joyous pain.

foot note: There are more sopranos out there than God intended. trust me on this one.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by franalexes

Your brain by thought may be insane,
invision thee not in joyous pain.

foot note: There are more sopranos out there than God intended. trust me on this one.

no pain no gain is not insane
but pleasure is the name of the game

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by randolph

no pain no gain is not insane
but pleasure is the name of the game

THAT WAS LAME, YEE WITH LITTLE BRAIN

SPREAD YOUR LEGS, HERE COMES THE TRAIN

SING YOUR SONG IN VAIN, DON'T FORGET ITS REFRAIN

[marlowe]

Are these posts really relevant?

They seem a bit of a white elephant!

Perhaps the budding Byrons of this board

should start a poetry thread

instead.

[CreativeMind]

There once was a man from Nantucket...

Oh wait, wrong poem!

[franalexes]

Oh my! We have slid so far from the opening post.
I suspect a dull life is the element of most.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by CreativeMind

There once was a man from Nantucket...

Oh wait, wrong poem!

Who didn't know how to fuck it.
He found a ladyboy that showed him how to suck it
He's now a cute tranny with a cute little fanny
from Nantucket

[ila]

This has gone way off the topic. Try sticking to what the thread is about. If anyone has a theme different from the topic of the thread then start a new thread.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by ila

This has gone way off the topic. Try sticking to what the thread is about. If anyone has a theme different from the topic of the thread then start a new thread.

You're right, us pseudo poets need there own thread.

[Bionca]

The poems are cute.. bringing up the mood of the thread

To get it back on...

I talked to the guy and told him I was less than pleased with his behavior. I told him I got that he and his friends tease and he knows that I can give it just as well - so I'm usually not bothered.

What I found out was that he called his brother the next day and told him not to insult me like that. I guess his brother can be a really jackass when he's drunk and he didn't want to start a scene/fight.

This seems pretty reasonable to me. *shrug*

[lopey]

Originally Posted by Bionca

The poems are cute.. bringing up the mood of the thread

To get it back on...

I talked to the guy and told him I was less than pleased with his behavior. I told him I got that he and his friends tease and he knows that I can give it just as well - so I'm usually not bothered.

What I found out was that he called his brother the next day and told him not to insult me like that. I guess his brother can be a really jackass when he's drunk and he didn't want to start a scene/fight.

This seems pretty reasonable to me. *shrug*

...and wild, crazy make-up sex ensued...

[CreativeMind]

Originally Posted by lopey

...and wild, crazy make-up sex ensued...

Well, if that's the case, then this thread could quickly go from Bionca grumbling about how their date went to now grumbling that he couldn't keep up with her during the make-up session! After all, Bionca is one wild and passionate lady!

[tvmarie]

My experience of dating men wasn't too positive. I decided men are pigs to put it politely. They were full of charm until they got the panties off you. Then they never called until they felt like another session.

[ila]

Originally Posted by tvmarie

My experience of dating men wasn't too positive. I decided men are pigs to put it politely. They were full of charm until they got the panties off you. Then they never called until they felt like another session.

I really hate generalizations. Your experiences are not the experiences of everyone. I will grant you that some men will act as you have described, but that doesn't mean all men do. Calling someone a pig is a very offensive term. Saying all men are pigs is like saying all women are bitches.

[marlowe]

Originally Posted by Bionca

..... What I found out was that he called his brother the next day and told him not to insult me like that. .....

Well that's a step in the right direction. Maybe next time he'll stand up for you in public.
Looks like you'll just have to take him in hand and make a decent man of him!
Onwards and upwards.

[ladyboyadmirer]

Originally Posted by cham

You are too good for him. Dump him!

Cham

I agree with Cham's abridged version. Hugs & to you Bionca

[fatbloke]

Originally Posted by Bionca

The poems are cute.. bringing up the mood of the thread

To get it back on...

I talked to the guy and told him I was less than pleased with his behavior. I told him I got that he and his friends tease and he knows that I can give it just as well - so I'm usually not bothered.

What I found out was that he called his brother the next day and told him not to insult me like that. I guess his brother can be a really jackass when he's drunk and he didn't want to start a scene/fight.

This seems pretty reasonable to me. *shrug*

Do you know for sure thats what he did?

[franalexes]

Originally Posted by tvmarie

My experience of dating men wasn't too positive. I decided men are pigs to put it politely. They were full of charm until they got the panties off you. Then they never called until they felt like another session.

I think I can identify with that. Even a sportscar has grease and oil on the inside.

In another thread, Randolph and some others have come around. There is more work to be done.