Transexuals through history

[sosed]

Well, my question is unusual, but maybe here are members, who are historiers or archeologists or just people, who knows if that kind of historical researches were done. Transsexual persons are not something, what happened only in last century, but were for sure also in other historical times and societies. I know history and archeology only in last times research life of ordinary people, but would be interesting to see, how different societies in different times see and relate with trans persons and how they try to help them.

Maybe the most interesting could be ancient Egyptians, because they were very free and open society, who respect every life, be it of human, be it of animal and where males and females have the same rights, legal protection and freedom and were equal, because in their religion gods and godesses works as devine couples. Egyptians were also very strict to write everything and they left a lot of mummified bodies, scientists could research. They have also very advanced medicine and kirurgy for their time. I wonder how they see transpersons? Did they see them as ill or mad persons or they accept and understand them and try to help them as they could. Of course they could not change their bodies as we could now, but there are also very interesting statues of Pharaoh Ehnathon, which have very feminine curves.

Moderators could place this treat in more proper section if this not belong here.

[sosed]

I watched a documentary on History channel about ancient plastic surgery, which talk about ancient Indian, ancient Egyptian and ancient Greeco-Roman surgery. They knew a lot of surgery procedures, which were reinvented in modern times and written in their medicine books and scriptures. They didn't have silicone implants or laser technics as we have today and we still don't know what kind of anestezy the used, but they were able to do some plastic surgery. They assume that famous Egyptian queen Nefertiti have face surgery to be the one of perfect face.

[SluttyShemaleAnna]

Seeing as someone done gone mentioned Egypt, check this one out: http://heritage-key.com/blogs/ann/tr...eum-collection

[sosed]

Thank you for link. Interesting reading. Fact, that mummy have penis, but in scriptures is addressed to be female actually show, that Egyptians recognize transwoman to be a woman, although they were not able to change her completely to woman. It would be interesting to see or read one day, how far ancient medicine could help transpeople in their transition or if there are scriptures about their lives in society.

[stephanie4life]

Hoover was a crossed dresser, Ed Wood was a crossdresser, one of the last sitting Ceasers of Rome was a Tranny of course she came out after becoming a ceaser.her name slips my mind, but needless to say she didn't last long before she was assasinated.

[sosed]

Originally Posted by stephanie4life

Hoover was a crossed dresser, Ed Wood was a crossdresser, one of the last sitting Ceasers of Rome was a Tranny of course she came out after becoming a ceaser.her name slips my mind, but needless to say she didn't last long before she was assasinated.

You are correct, it was emperor Elegabalus (218-222), who prostitute himslef with a wig as woman and offer a vast sums of money to physician, who could make him female genitalia. He was killed by praetorian guard, be it for his sexual orientation, be it for other reasons, as many other emperors.

Interesting is his idea to have sex change operation. It seems that surgery in that time was very advanced and they did various plastic surgeries, of course for a lot of money, that that kind of idea become an offer. Maybe medicine in that ancient time know it is possible, just no one want to take that risk.

[rjm1971]

Not sure if it has been mentioned , as I am new here, but "Saraph" mention in Greek, Latin, Hebrew and even Christian literature (angel hierarchy) is said to have female angelic body features and both sets of genitals as well. Including breasts of course.

[sosed]

Some sources for Istar / Inanna legend.

http://crimsonwolfe.tripod.com/id53.html

http://www.inanna.virtualave.net/asushunamir.html

http://www.reocities.com/Athens/olympus/2179/

http://ecclasia.com/inanna.html

http://signsandportents.net/?p=388

Different sources, but the same story.

Picture of Roman Herculaneum fresco of Hermaphroditus.

[Florian]

Originally Posted by rjm1971

Not sure if it has been mentioned , as I am new here, but "Saraph" mention in Greek, Latin, Hebrew and even Christian literature (angel hierarchy) is said to have female angelic body features and both sets of genitals as well. Including breasts of course.

I'm no expert on angels, but always believed they were men only. Please tell me more!

[Elonar]

Originally Posted by Florian

I'm no expert on angels, but always believed they were men only. Please tell me more!

The Judaeo-Christian tradition rooted in that of the Hebrews invariably presented its authority as patriarchal. This probably explains why Jahweh, Jehovah, and God had to be referred to as ' He ', and the lesser spirit minions such as Cherubim, and Seraphs doing ' his ' bidding would carry divine masculine authority. Hence Michael, Raphael, Lucifer ( Satan ), Azrael etc would all be considered ' He-s ' . For female Divinities and spirits, you would have to look to the Babylonian tradition.

After all, in the Christian Tradition, the Virgin Mary conceived by divine intervention, and since Mary was female, however mystical you make it, the logical conclusion is that she was impregnated, and that the divine medium for that took on male powers to do that !

But when you are dealing with matters of pure faith and conjecture, even the impossible becomes possible.

Personally I prefer to view my Guardian Angel ( if indeed I have one ) as essentially female - so much more sympathetic and non-judgmental !

[sosed]

In early Hebrew kingdoms of Juda and Israel they worship both god Jahweh and goddess Astarte. But later also with pressure of Jahweh clerics and kings Hebrews abandon goddess Astarte and prohibit her worship. It was politics of that time, which create Jewish religion as it was.

[sosed]

I find interesting book about Gallae priestesses with headline The Gallae: transgender priests of ancient Greece, Rome and the Near East.

In ancient times societies never associate third gender, where they see eunuchs, castrates, trans persons, etc, as males. For them, they are neither male neither female, but usually their role is associated with females in contrast with today, where many people associate tgirls with males, because they still have penis.

[franalexes]

Originally Posted by Florian

I'm no expert on angels, but always believed they were men only. Please tell me more!

In our human minds, inferior as they are, we have created perhaps this vision of male and female angels. But angels being of devine and heavenly creation have no need of sex and therefore is there any distinction of male or female?
We don't know what we don't know.

[Florian]

Thank God I'm not of heavenly creation!

Originally Posted by franalexes

In our human minds, inferior as they are, we have created perhaps this vision of male and female angels. But angels being of devine and heavenly creation have no need of sex and therefore is there any distinction of male or female?
We don't know what we don't know.

[smc]

I came across this wonderful take on ancient Greek pottery and thought it would be worth posting in this thread. (Kudos to the artist, Anasheya.)