Liberal free for all coming to an end

[smc]

Originally Posted by The Conquistador

So, being forced by an organization to pony up money under the threat of violence and then calling the the money that has been extorted as part of "paying your dues" or "taxes" or whatever you want to call it counts as a legitimate payment for goods and services? It is extortion money, plain and simple and no matter what it is used for, be it good or bad, it is still extortion money. I do not see the "senselessness" of calling a spade a spade.

This all started with your post that read "taxes don't count as payment" in reference to my post about undocumented workers paying taxes. "Goods and services" had nothing to do with it. Go back and read the initial post I responded to of yours, and the subsequent posts, and perhaps take a stab at telling me what the fuck you're talking about.

[smc]

Originally Posted by transjen

Useless yes useless all this post is nothing but talking points of both parties and has changed no ones minds
So this is all useless
In the end the unsupreme court on 12/21/12 will rule 5 to 4 that Bachman is the next president sealing our fate to this
http://youtu.be/8fxFkue8gZ8

Jerseygirl Jen

I know of at least two people who have changed their minds about several things as a result of the discussion in this thread. I am not at liberty to say who they are, but perhaps they will see this and post.

And Jen, your posts have me seriously rethinking which NHL team to root for.

[GRH]

While we're talking about "fair taxes" and giving grief to the poor who don't have an income tax liability...It looks like some millionaires don't pay any income tax either.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0...ec1_lnk2|83802

[TracyCoxx]

7/30/11

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

So back to this GRH... The senate is working on a bill that cuts $2 trillion over 10 years. Why? If S&P says we need to cut $4 trillion over 10 years why is the senate trying to cut $2 trillion over 10 years? And why has the senate tossed the only bill so far that does cut at least $4 trillion over 10 years?

8/6/11

Credit rating agency Standard & Poor's on Friday lowered the nation's AAA rating for the first time since granting it in 1917. The move came less than a week after a gridlocked Congress finally agreed to spending cuts that would reduce the debt by more than $2 trillion -- a tumultuous process that contributed to convulsions in financial markets. The promised cuts were not enough to satisfy S&P.

And Washington is now acting surprised. Idiots.

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

And Washington is now acting surprised. Idiots.

The U.S. Department of the Treasury and many in Congress are disputing S&P's math, a fact that should be included with any statement about what S&P has done. Further, S&P -- in taking this decision -- calls attention as much to the political process as to anything specifically financial. In other words, it is a reasonable assumption that had the Tea Partiers not manufactured a debt ceiling "crisis" for political purposes, out of thin air, there would have been no such action.

Notably, neither Fitch nor Moody's, the other two main credit ratings agencies (Moody's being generally regarded as the most important), have downgraded their ratings. Both continue to maintain the AAA rating for the United States after this week's debt deal, although Moody's lowered its outlook on U.S. debt to "negative."

The $1 billion extra in interest it may now cost the United States to borrow money that it MUST borrow to pay for spending already approved by Congress -- including by Republicans -- is $1 billion that could have been spent on making life better for Americans. Instead, it will go to banks and other lending institutions. So, the Tea Partiers get the best of both worlds, from their perspective: they held the government hostage to a phony debt ceiling crisis that resulted in some cuts they wanted, and they get more money to their real, significant backers. In other words, more money for the wealthiest bankers and others who control the flow of capital.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

7/30/11


8/6/11


And Washington is now acting surprised. Idiots.

Why should we listen to S&P, when they along with Moodys completely fucked up the analysis of the derivitives market, leading to the financial meltdown?

[ila]

Originally Posted by randolph

Why should we listen to S&P, when they along with Moodys completely fucked up the analysis of the derivitives market, leading to the financial meltdown?

There are a great many more reasons for the financial mess that your country has caused to the rest of world than what S&P or Moody's had done or not done. One can start with social engineering and end with financial greed as the complete range of reasons.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by smc

The U.S. Department of the Treasury and many in Congress are disputing S&P's math, a fact that should be included with any statement about what S&P has done. Further, S&P -- in taking this decision -- calls attention as much to the political process as to anything specifically financial. In other words, it is a reasonable assumption that had the Tea Partiers not manufactured a debt ceiling "crisis" for political purposes, out of thin air, there would have been no such action.

Notably, neither Fitch nor Moody's, the other two main credit ratings agencies (Moody's being generally regarded as the most important), have downgraded their ratings. Both continue to maintain the AAA rating for the United States after this week's debt deal, although Moody's lowered its outlook on U.S. debt to "negative."

The $1 billion extra in interest it may now cost the United States to borrow money that it MUST borrow to pay for spending already approved by Congress -- including by Republicans -- is $1 billion that could have been spent on making life better for Americans. Instead, it will go to banks and other lending institutions. So, the Tea Partiers get the best of both worlds, from their perspective: they held the government hostage to a phony debt ceiling crisis that resulted in some cuts they wanted, and they get more money to their real, significant backers. In other words, more money for the wealthiest bankers and others who control the flow of capital.

S&P is being completely irresponsible with this rating. It will just make the financial situation worse.
Like it or not, the economy is a "faith based system". If the public feel confident the economy is doing OK, they are willing to invest in it and companies are willing to expand, creating jobs. Endless "bad" news creats a poisoness atmosphere that pervades the entire economy.
It makes one wonder who runs S&P, are they part of the group determined to make the economy look terrible before the next election in order to get Obama out of office?

[ila]

Originally Posted by randolph

...Like it or not, the economy is a "faith based system". If the public feel confident the economy is doing OK, they are willing to invest in it and companies are willing to expand, creating jobs. Endless "bad" news creats a poisoness atmosphere that pervades the entire economy...

The situation would probably be better if you had a president with some backbone and principles. You don't need a leader who sways in the wind like a reed in a hurricane and who doesn't really have a vision of what your country should be and do.

[TracyCoxx]

The $2 trillion error not withstanding, S&P noted that we did not make the $4 trillion in cuts that they were looking for, and that much of the cuts we did plan on making were to come years from now under different presidents and different congresses. They have understandably lost faith that our idiots in washington can get things done and carry it out. When the president & congress promises cuts over 6 years from now, does anyone seriously thing they will happen?

Error or not, after August 2nd the dow dropped like 700 pts. People knew this was coming.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by ila

The situation would probably be better if you had a president with some backbone and principles. You don't need a leader who sways in the wind like a reed in a hurricane and who doesn't really have a vision of what your country should be and do.

It's becoming increasingly apparent that Obama is primarily interested in getting reelected rather than facing up to the right and their financial supporters. The devastation started by Ronald Reagan continues. Reagan seduced the nation with his friendly smooth talking style. Even now he is still considered a hero. Thirty years ago a man could support his family with a single job, buy a house and a car to get to work. His kids could get a college education for little cost. Public education was the best in the world.
When Reagan fired the airline controllers and nobody came to their support including other unions, the right wing was amazed and knew then that they could continue to screw the middle class by systematically transferring wealth to the wealthy.

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

The $2 trillion error not withstanding, S&P noted that we did not make the $4 trillion in cuts that they were looking for, and that much of the cuts we did plan on making were to come years from now under different presidents and different congresses. They have understandably lost faith that our idiots in washington can get things done and carry it out. When the president & congress promises cuts over 6 years from now, does anyone seriously thing they will happen?

Error or not, after August 2nd the dow dropped like 700 pts. People knew this was coming.

I guess S&P should be calling the shots for the U.S. economy, rather than the real working people who pay real taxes. Of course, the chance that Republocrats actually represent real taxpayers as opposed to the financial barons of whom the S&P leadership is part is, of course, a fiction.

Tracy Coxx, why don't we just let S&P run the country directly? Wouldn't it cut out all the political shenanigans in Washington and make people who think like you happy?

[smc]

Originally Posted by randolph

It's becoming increasingly apparent that Obama is primarily interested in getting reelected rather than facing up to the right and their financial supporters. The devastation started by Ronald Reagan continues. Reagan seduced the nation with his friendly smooth talking style. Even now he is still considered a hero. Thirty years ago a man could support his family with a single job, buy a house and a car to get to work. His kids could get a college education for little cost. Public education was the best in the world.
When Reagan fired the airline controllers and nobody came to their support including other unions, the right wing was amazed and knew then that they could continue to screw the middle class by systematically transferring wealth to the wealthy.

Randolph, you are getting close to the truth. If you can just realize that this is not about Obama, per se, but about the two parties that are controlled by big business and the wealthy. They disagree only in how to screw us. The Democrats want to do it on behalf of their benefactors somewhat benignly, recognizing that pushing too hard causes social turmoil. The Republicans are more honest in coming right out and telling people whose interests they represent. The fact that anyone, anyone, who works for a living (as opposed to those who live off the exploitation in our system) supports the latter is beyond me, when it is so obvious that they represent those who would exploit them even more. The fact that anyone who works for a living supports the former is a reflection of how well the Democrats have convinced people, falsely, that they are the party of the working class.

[guy4u300]

Gee wasn't TARP a Bush plan ? didn't Reagan spend shitloads of money while being in a peacetime economy ? just before 911 Ronald Dumbsfeld I mean Donald Rumsfeld annomced the two that right two TRILLION was missing from the PENTAGON BUDGET ???? Believe me the Republicans are the biggest spenders an could give a shit about you or I we could have had a NADER but we got a SELECTION INSTEAD OF A ELECTION IN 2000 . CASE CLOSED.

Originally Posted by smc

Thank you to Tracy Coxx for providing such a vivid lesson in dissembling the truth. Tracy Coxx has been called out on specific claims regarding how much of the deficit is Obama's "fault." Called on the lie, Tracy Coxx tries to divert your attention away from the actual numbers, because Tracy Coxx cannot justify the hyperbolic bullshit that is the substance of the claim. So, Tracy Coxx tries to shift the goalpost from the dollar figure to something else.

Kudos to Kaiti for joining the chorus calling out the deliberate misrepresentations of Tracy Coxx.

[ila]

Originally Posted by randolph

It's becoming increasingly apparent that Obama is primarily interested in getting reelected rather than facing up to the right and their financial supporters. The devastation started by Ronald Reagan continues. Reagan seduced the nation with his friendly smooth talking style. Even now he is still considered a hero. Thirty years ago a man could support his family with a single job, buy a house and a car to get to work. His kids could get a college education for little cost. Public education was the best in the world.
When Reagan fired the airline controllers and nobody came to their support including other unions, the right wing was amazed and knew then that they could continue to screw the middle class by systematically transferring wealth to the wealthy.

Originally Posted by smc

Randolph, you are getting close to the truth. If you can just realize that this is not about Obama, per se, but about the two parties that are controlled by big business and the wealthy. They disagree only in how to screw us. The Democrats want to do it on behalf of their benefactors somewhat benignly, recognizing that pushing too hard causes social turmoil. The Republicans are more honest in coming right out and telling people whose interests they represent. The fact that anyone, anyone, who works for a living (as opposed to those who live off the exploitation in our system) supports the latter is beyond me, when it is so obvious that they represent those who would exploit them even more. The fact that anyone who works for a living supports the former is a reflection of how well the Democrats have convinced people, falsely, that they are the party of the working class.

It's not just in your country. It seems that politicians everywhere are more interested in ganining and retaining power rather than looking after their respective countries.

[randolph]

We have to give the politicians and their corporate masters credit for being masters of deception. The Tea Party people have legitimate grassroots concerns about the massive debt and the direction of the country. This honest patriotic concern is being manipulated and distorted to create a poisoness paranoid atmosphere. Obama is being characterized as an evil power mad socialist bent on destroying the country. Social programs are evil, energy saving light bulbs are evil, family planning is evil. The Kock Bros, the Heritage Foundation and the other conservative "think" tanks that are supported by wealthy corporate interests feed the Tea Party with this irrational crap. The shocking thing is that a lot of people buy it and as demonstrated in Washington last week, it is working. Obama and Congress caved big time.
Certainly the debt is of concern but of greater concern is the economy. The stimulus saved the banks and big business but it is the thousands of small businesses in this country that provide the jobs that are so desperately needed yet they are getting little help from Washingtom.

[randolph]

The face of the Tea Party?
The queen of hate!

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by randolph

The face of the Tea Party?
The queen of hate!

She looks like she wants to suck my soul through her eyes. Whilst she cuts funding for education. Those wily teachers and their gold plated pensions...

[franalexes]

When does this become Obama's economic record?
You can keep the Change and Hope went south today.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by franalexes

When does this become Obama's economic record?
You can keep the Change and Hope went south today.

The Repubs. and their basement buddies are doing everything possible to get Ayn Rand to be the next president. If the American public doesn't wake up, we can look forward to increased racism, persecution of homosexuals and transsexuals, the destruction of Social Security and Medicare and the establishment of a national religion.
Taliban sharia here we come.

[randolph]

Looks like a lot of Republicans are becoming independent. I suspect moderate Republicans are being put of by all the radical super conservatives yapping away on the media.

[transjen]

looks like everyone must still be hung over from Rick Perry throwing his ten gallon hat of GOP BS in to the ring
I can see why a lot of the GOP love this guy for one he makes W look like a five beta cappa
oh and this champion of the common man after leaving the air force he returned to his daddy's cotton farm then entered poltics a man who never worked a day in his life says he can create jobs
Most of the jobs he created were thanks to the stim package which he is bitching about and the rest are min wage jobs with no bennies
WHOOO-HOOO another champion of the working man from Texas
I believe we already seen this picture before
And this one is worse then the first
Jerseygirl Jen

[randolph]

Originally Posted by transjen

looks like everyone must still be hung over from Rick Perry throwing his ten gallon hat of GOP BS in to the ring
I can see why a lot of the GOP love this guy for one he makes W look like a five beta cappa
oh and this champion of the common man after leaving the air force he returned to his daddy's cotton farm then entered poltics a man who never worked a day in his life says he can create jobs
Most of the jobs he created were thanks to the stim package which he is bitching about and the rest are min wage jobs with no bennies
WHOOO-HOOO another champion of the working man from Texas
I believe we already seen this picture before
And this one is worse then the first
Jerseygirl Jen

For sure, in college he was a "C" student specializing in "Fs" and "Ds". His claim to fame in college? He was a yell leader!
He doesn't believe in evolution or global warming. The debates between Bachmen and Perry should be quite entertaining.

[franalexes]

Been reading other forums of R's that have an unfavorable take on Perry.
He is everything that those supporting conservative traits would oppose.

With close to a dozen in the pack, I don't see a leader yet.
Of all , I see Gingritch as capable but still very un-electable.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by franalexes

Been reading other forums of R's that have an unfavorable take on Perry.
He is everything that those supporting conservative traits would oppose.

With close to a dozen in the pack, I don't see a leader yet.
Of all , I see Gingritch as capable but still very un-electable.

Oh no, please not Newt! He can't even hold together his campaign team!

Rumor has it the Obama is not going to run and Hillary if going to take over.
That should get the Repubs. stirred up.

[smc]

A Rick Perry quote that requires no comment:

"I think in America from time to time we have to go through some difficult times ? and I think we?re going through those difficult economic times for a purpose, to bring us back to those Biblical principles of you know, you don?t spend all the money. You work hard for those six years and you put up that seventh year in the warehouse to take you through the hard times. And not spending all of our money. Not asking for Pharaoh to give everything to everybody and to take care of folks because at the end of the day, it?s slavery." (May 5, 2011, on the James Robison TV show "Life Today")

[randolph]

Originally Posted by smc

A Rick Perry quote that requires no comment:

"I think in America from time to time we have to go through some difficult times ? and I think we?re going through those difficult economic times for a purpose, to bring us back to those Biblical principles of you know, you don?t spend all the money. You work hard for those six years and you put up that seventh year in the warehouse to take you through the hard times. And not spending all of our money. Not asking for Pharaoh to give everything to everybody and to take care of folks because at the end of the day, it?s slavery." (May 5, 2011, on the James Robison TV show "Life Today")

The governor of Texas! It's Howdy Dudy time.

[ila]

Originally Posted by randolph

...Rumor has it the Obama is not going to run and Hillary if going to take over.
That should get the Repubs. stirred up.

I stated a few years ago that Hillary should have been the Democratic candidate in the last US presidential election. She's got skill, knowledge, and backbone.

[KittyKaiti]

Originally Posted by smc

A Rick Perry quote that requires no comment:

"I think in America from time to time we have to go through some difficult times ? and I think we?re going through those difficult economic times for a purpose, to bring us back to those Biblical principles of you know, you don?t spend all the money. You work hard for those six years and you put up that seventh year in the warehouse to take you through the hard times. And not spending all of our money. Not asking for Pharaoh to give everything to everybody and to take care of folks because at the end of the day, it?s slavery." (May 5, 2011, on the James Robison TV show "Life Today")

He is a slightly less nerve racking Republican candidate for President as compared to the few others. But any President that uses religion to interfere with his duties as a leader in a secular nation is a scary person when in power.

[randolph]

What about Jon Huntsman? He seem reasonably sane compared to the rest of them.

[franalexes]

Originally Posted by randolph

Rumor has it the Obama is not going to run and Hillary if going to take over.
That should get the Repubs. stirred up.

I also heard that rumor on a political forum.

(not typed in Magenta at the request of dauls )

[transjen]

Originally Posted by randolph

What about Jon Huntsman? He seem reasonably sane compared to the rest of them.

And that is why he doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of making it out of the primaries, the hardcore GOP voters want a hardcore nut job like Perry or Bachman
Jerseygirl Jen

[transjen]

Originally Posted by randolph

Oh no, please not Newt! He can't even hold together his campaign team!

Rumor has it the Obama is not going to run and Hillary if going to take over.
That should get the Repubs. stirred up.

Not going to happen, if this was true i'd be working inher campaign HQ here in Jersey like i did in 08

The Dems and indies will bitch about Obama caving in and always letting the GOP get there way but in the end they'll revote him back in office
why you ask, you look at who his replacement will be Perry or Bachman or Rom not much of a choice is it?
of course i do hear that some hardliners want to dig up the corspe of Ronald and run him for a third term
Jerseygirl Jen

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by transjen

And that is why he doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of making it out of the primaries, the hardcore GOP voters want a hardcore nut job like Perry or Bachman
Jerseygirl Jen

A leftist version of this could probably be said about Hillary for prez in '08.

[ila]

Originally Posted by transjen

...of course i do hear that some hardliners want to dig up the corspe of Ronald and run him for a third term
Jerseygirl Jen

At least the corpse of Ron would have more backbone than your current president.

[smc]

Originally Posted by transjen

... of course i do hear that some hardliners want to dig up the corspe of Ronald and run him for a third term
Jerseygirl Jen

"Hardliners"? I believe there are those in the Republican Party who would like to do as you say, but what are today "hardliners" in that party would be confronted with a choice they don't want to make: keep using Reagan as the touchstone of conservatism (in the way Sarah Palin does, nearly drooling at the mention of his name), or acknowledge that Reagan -- who, for instance, appealed quite eloquently for an increase in the debt ceiling (you can find the quote in an earlier post of mine) -- would not pass muster in the Tea Party world.

Originally Posted by ila

At least the corpse of Ron would have more backbone than your current president.

This is true...

[randolph]

This is a quote from Tickerspy regarding Warren Buffets investment in Bank of America.

I will bet against the common wisdom. Buffett unloaded his entire shareholdings in BofA last year. These were common shares. He now gets a six percent dividend which is seventy percent tax free under tax law as to dividends paid from one corporation (BofA) to another Berkshire and he is preferred over the payment of dividends to other common shareholders. He also has ten years to but the shares at around $7/share which is very generous. This is not a show of confidence in BofA who did not need the capital last week but confidence in the shrewdness of Warren Buffett who did the same with GE and Goldman Sachs just before the commons shares in Goldman tanked last week.

I guess that's why he is so rich. He is very smart!

[transjen]

While the GOP wannabe Presidents are doing a Mexican hat dance about zero job for Aug and after they finished high fiven each other they started running there mouth and if you listen you will find one pattron to there load of crap
They all claim they will create jobs
How will they do this feet you ask?
For the most part they are not telling but what they do tell is the same old GOP BS about cutting taxes
this BS has been in affect since 2001 and is still going
So if cutting taxes creates jobs where the are the jobs
in fact in 2010 the GOP ran for the house claiming they will make jobs there number one duty so to the GOP controled house i ask where are the jobs?
The GOP BS about cutting taxes has never worked and never will
And before Tracy chimes in here's a fact for her to chew on when there belove W was in the white house we were in a neg 2000 jobs a month in the hole
The GOP answer is keep the Bush failed policies active and trople down on a loosing hand of failed policies which got us in to this mess to start with
and remember they cry the poor
Jerseygirl Jen

[GRH]

Since Republicans are so for low taxes, why are they not in favor of extending the 2% payroll tax cut that expires at the end of the year? Is it because they don't care if middle class tax rates increase so long as the wealthy don't have to pay more? Could it have anything to do with not wanting to help the economy so as to decrease Obama's chance of reelection?

[TracyCoxx]

In February 2009, after signing the stimulus bill, Obama pledged to cut the deficit to half by the end of his first term in office. I'd like to see it gone of course, but it's still going to be impressive to see him get the deficit down to $530 billion next fiscal year. Go for it Obama... only $770 billion left to go!

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

In February 2009, after signing the stimulus bill, Obama pledged to cut the deficit to half by the end of his first term in office. I'd like to see it gone of course, but it's still going to be impressive to see him get the deficit down to $530 billion next fiscal year. Go for it Obama... only $770 billion left to go!

A stupid pledge to have made, since it would require the assent of the very people you support ... and they won't do it, either. But (broken record time) you already know that, Tracy Coxx.

[randolph]

I find the thing most disturbing about the GOP debate last night was that no one challenged Perry on his outrageous statements about social security. He is flat out wrong about social security. It is fully funded well into the future. Working young people today who are contributing to social security will get a retirement of about $35,000 per year at time of retirement.
Perry's comments are just another example of the rhetorical bullshit emanating from the far right.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

I find the thing most disturbing about the GOP debate last night was that no one challenged Perry on his outrageous statements about social security. He is flat out wrong about social security. It is fully funded well into the future. Working young people today who are contributing to social security will get a retirement of about $35,000 per year at time of retirement.
Perry's comments are just another example of the rhetorical bullshit emanating from the far right.

I think that's more debatable than the science that Perry completely blasts. If you add in comments he's made elsewhere it's pretty clear he has no respect for any field of science and I find that rather disturbing.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

I think that's more debatable than the science that Perry completely blasts. If you add in comments he's made elsewhere it's pretty clear he has no respect for any field of science and I find that rather disturbing.

It's amazing that he brags about getting high tech companies to come to Texas while he dismisses all the scientific evidence for evolution and climate change.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

It's amazing that he brags about getting high tech companies to come to Texas while he dismisses all the scientific evidence for evolution and climate change.

Yeah, he's also a big supporter of manned space exploration, which I was just as surprised about as I was with Bush, the other anti-science guy.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Yeah, he's also a big supporter of manned space exploration, which I was just as surprised about as I was with Bush, the other anti-science guy.

I find it mystifying that these bible thumping "religious" types can deny and reject some science and embrace other aspects of scientific endeavor. I suspect a lot of it is cynical pandering to a religious base in order to gain political power. That certainly appeared to be the case with Bush.
With Bachman and Palin and some of the others they seem to really believe in the literal bible. How they reconcile that with reality is a mystery.
Jimmy Carter is a Baptist, a moderate one however and he did not try to impose his religious beliefs onto the American public as President. Some of the current candidates want to impose their conservative beliefs on the American public. This is a very bad trend. The founding fathers were well aware of the deleterious effects of blending religion into government. They carefully crafted the Constitution to keep religion out of the government.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

I find it mystifying that these bible thumping "religious" types can deny and reject some science and embrace other aspects of scientific endeavor. I suspect a lot of it is cynical pandering to a religious base in order to gain political power. That certainly appeared to be the case with Bush.

Oh I believe Bush (and Perry) are more religious than they even allow people to see. I think Bush's support of manned space exploration was for other than scientific reasons. Like the spanish - for god, gold and glory.

Originally Posted by randolph

With Bachman and Palin and some of the others they seem to really believe in the literal bible. How they reconcile that with reality is a mystery.

After talking with people like them, they seem to think reality is a deception and that you must remain steadfast and keep your eye on what the bible tells you I tell them nature is the literal word of god, not the bible.

Originally Posted by randolph

Jimmy Carter is a Baptist, a moderate one however and he did not try to impose his religious beliefs onto the American public as President. Some of the current candidates want to impose their conservative beliefs on the American public. This is a very bad trend. The founding fathers were well aware of the deleterious effects of blending religion into government. They carefully crafted the Constitution to keep religion out of the government.

I agree.

[randolph]

I think God may be getting fed up with all this "support" business.
I think Bush also claimed God was on his side.

"Texas governor Rick Perry said God is calling on him to run for President. But Michele Bachmann said that god is calling on her to run for President. You know, if God is that indecisive, he's probably for Mitt Romney." ?Jay Leno

[TracyCoxx]

These are not good times for Obama. His approval ratings are low, unemployment rates continue to rise, his administration is in the hot seat for pushing to loan stimulus money to Solyndra which apparently was known at the time to be a very risky loan. How many more times has this happened? Even some senate democrats are not supporting Obama's jobs bill. Now Obama tells (pleads to?) a crowd

Originally Posted by Obama

If you love me, help me pass this bill!

Sounds pretty desperate.