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  #1  
Old 07-06-2009
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Default Ask Me!

Ask me something. I will try to answer to the best of my ability or I will sit facing the corner wearing a dunce cap.
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[QUOTE=God(from Futurama)]Right and wrong are just words; what matters is what you do... If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
  #2  
Old 07-18-2009
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Default Why do people believe in gods?

Is it because we are so aware of our own mortality that we need a crutch just to face life?
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Old 07-21-2009
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Why are you angry ?
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Old 07-21-2009
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Default Not too quick with answers

Lame ass dinbky doo
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Old 07-21-2009
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Cool

Sometimes you have to believe in something bigger than yourself (faith). Or wrap yourself in facts and minutiae of life (science). Me i just take life one day at a time , i cant wait to lift anchor and set sail , just go where the wind takes me.
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Old 07-24-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorque View Post
Is it because we are so aware of our own mortality that we need a crutch just to face life?
Everything has signs of intelligent design. Everything we have today was because someone put thought into a problem and came up with a clever solution. Our vehicles that we drive are the birthchildren of the designs of Nicholas Otto, Charles and J. Frank Duryea, Rudolf Diesel and numerous other people who helped contribute their own ideas to a wonderful product. If something as mechanically simple as an engine is a statement to intelligent design, why can't the same be true for something infinetly more complex such as a plant or a human body?
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[QUOTE=God(from Futurama)]Right and wrong are just words; what matters is what you do... If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
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Old 07-24-2009
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Why are you angry ?
Because the fates consistently conspire against me. Life sucks when you don't have a sporting chance.
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[QUOTE=God(from Futurama)]Right and wrong are just words; what matters is what you do... If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
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Old 07-24-2009
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Lame ass dinbky doo
I'm a bit on the slow end, yes. It's one of my more endearing qualities.
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[QUOTE=God(from Futurama)]Right and wrong are just words; what matters is what you do... If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
  #9  
Old 07-29-2009
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Talking Intelligent Design??? Make me laugh some more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
Everything has signs of intelligent design. Everything we have today was because someone put thought into a problem and came up with a clever solution. Our vehicles that we drive are the birthchildren of the designs of Nicholas Otto, Charles and J. Frank Duryea, Rudolf Diesel and numerous other people who helped contribute their own ideas to a wonderful product. If something as mechanically simple as an engine is a statement to intelligent design, why can't the same be true for something infinetly more complex such as a plant or a human body?
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
Unintelligent design is more fitting. We are not really designed for walking upright on two legs which is why so many experiance back and feet problems. Good design point there in an appendix which can become infected, rupture, and kill us.

I will admit the possibility of some tinkering in our Genetic makeup as postulated at the Library of Halexandria

http://www.halexandria.org/


As to your question, this so called intelligent design of a plant took a very long time. How simple will our engines be after we have refined them for a million years? It will make the plant look downright simple. What will we be able to do with that same plant or the human body in a thousand years? I have heard hundreds of arguments for intelligent design and not a one of them stands up to critical thinking. Grasping at straws is all they are.
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  #10  
Old 07-30-2009
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In that case Jenae, I challenge you to make a better sentient being that would out class humans and give it free will. It' a easy to criticize and nitpick. It's alot harder to perfect something that is infinitely better than our most complex technology can ever be.

If we aren't someones creation, life then kinda seems a bit depressing.


Ps: the reason for health ailments is due to genetics and our surroundings. Humans were designed to walk and run on soft soil, not hard concrete. Running on hard surfaces for extended periods of time overstresses joints and causes back and leg problems.
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[QUOTE=God(from Futurama)]Right and wrong are just words; what matters is what you do... If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
  #11  
Old 07-30-2009
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Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
In that case Jenae, I challenge you to make a better sentient being that would out class humans and give it free will. It' a easy to criticize and nitpick. It's alot harder to perfect something that is infinitely better than our most complex technology can ever be.

If we aren't someones creation, life then kinda seems a bit depressing.


Ps: the reason for health ailments is due to genetics and our surroundings. Humans were designed to walk and run on soft soil, not hard concrete. Running on hard surfaces for extended periods of time overstresses joints and causes back and leg problems.
**********************************************

"..is due to gentics and our surroundings." LOL The great omnipotent God who is your designer did not forsee that we would one day walk on hard surfaces and design better genetics to take care of the problem? Strange??The medical opinions I have encountered said that most back problems were caused by trauma as a result of improper manual actions which are defined as carrying and turning improperly with loads. Incidently they classify excess body weight as one of the possible loads.

"....kinda seems a bit depressing." Yes it does in a certain viewpoint. After all, you were told all through your formative years that Jesus loves you and someday you would be with him in "pie in the sky" land. What a letdown!!

"....I challenge you..." Now I haven't heard an argument like that since my schoolyard days. The old dare ya routine. I never claimed to be anywhere capable of such a thing. What I asked was what will mankind be capable of a thousand years from now. Consider our history. Organized religion has a fine record of being against man's advancement, only they called it unGodly and witchcraft. If you were thrust back in time only 400 years and told the authorities of things like: organ transplants, flying to the moon, talking to a man on the other side of the world - - - I have no doubt you would soon be talking to the boys of the Holy Inquisition as they stretched you out on the rack while applying hot irons to your flesh. Now in spite of them and all the rest of the doomsayers, such things have come to pass. And each generation has bemoaned the events of the succeeding generation. And yet, mankind marches on, and on the whole things do get better. Think not? I live in housing that is far superior to any Lord's mansion of 400 years ago. I dine on food that is free of disease and comes from the far corners of the world. I have an automobile that conveys me in great comfort and far faster than any carriage and horse of old. I live longer and survive events that killed many in those days. How many people die of a bad tooth today? A very small percentage of those that did then. Anyway, despite the nay sayers, we do progress and will continue to progress as mankind expands his understanding of the universe around us. And what "magic" will we be capable of in a couple of centuries? I think StarTrek just begins to touch on the possibilities of technology. Will we unlock the mystery of life? Yes, I think we will if we don't knock ourself back to the Dark Ages first.
And who's going to do that? The people who believe in God like George Bush and the believers in Allah who like to blow themselves up to get into paradise through some misguided notion.

Getting back to my original question and rephrasing it a bit.

Do you need the crutch (staff) of believing in God to get through life?

Is it like it says in the Psalm 23:4 --, "your rod AND your staff, they comfort me."
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  #12  
Old 07-30-2009
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Hey angry postman should i wear blck or white tomorrow ? i cant decide
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Old 07-30-2009
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Default Blck would be bet.

All the latest fashon is to dress in blck and attain a true Gotic demeaner.

I apologize for butting in on Posty's question but I needed a laugh.
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Old 07-30-2009
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My question to you angry postman: have you ever been with a Thai ladyboy? If so, how would you describe the experience?
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Old 07-30-2009
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@Jenae:

Quote:
Unintelligent design is more fitting. We are not really designed for walking upright on two legs which is why so many experiance back and feet problems.
Well, I walked on my hands and legs when I was a kid and I had INSTANT back pain. But seriously, who said we're not designed for walking upright? And what statistics are there that prove your back and feet problems?

And if there are any back and feet problems, they probably come from an inactive lifestyle that is shared by most of the world today.

Quote:
Good design point there in an appendix which can become infected, rupture, and kill us.
So you ignore the brain, DNA, consciousness, life and nerves; you take the appendix and that's supposed to make us forget about those obviously designed things? That's like traveling to Jupiter, finding some kind of supercomputer, then deducing it's there by accident (or evolution) because we found a button in it that has no purpose.

Quote:
How simple will our engines be after we have refined them for a million years? It will make the plant look downright simple
So you're saying our engines need some kind of consistent, calculated, intelligent design process in order to become that way?

Quote:
I have heard hundreds of arguments for intelligent design and not a one of them stands up to critical thinking.
Here's one: if you travel to Jupiter and you found a sort of advanced computer and a sort of advanced air, water and land vehicle, would your first thought be, "This evolved into this state"? Or "I wonder where the designers are. Hiding?"

BTW, I'm not a Christian. I follow no religion. I just believe there is a god and there's no way around that fact.
  #16  
Old 07-31-2009
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Hey angry postman should i wear blck or white tomorrow ? i cant decide
Go with white. Black is for commandos and emo losers.
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  #17  
Old 07-31-2009
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My question to you angry postman: have you ever been with a Thai ladyboy? If so, how would you describe the experience?
No I have not. I have been with Mexican, black and white TS's. they were fun to be around, but I'd rather have a ts girlfriend rather than a fling.
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  #18  
Old 07-31-2009
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Jenae, what the hell was that all about. I answered your question. Just because it wasn't the one you wanted to hear doesn't mean it's wrong. Sheesh! I won't argue over semantics because

1) I am tired
2) I am texting from an Ipod
3) Because it is obvious that you don't give a damn about what I say; you just want to hear what you want.

The quick and dirty version? One word: hope.
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  #19  
Old 07-31-2009
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Default I tell ya what fellas

I am not going to debate your sophomoric intelligent design questions. You don't begin to come up with near as clever points as most of those now being posted by pro-IDCers on the net. If you want to put foward some point that indicates strongly that there is intelligent design responsible for the universe, then do so. Don't give me that computer on Jupiter BS which is just a variation on the watch just coming together from a collection of junk parts theme.

I find it very hard to take people serious who come up with points like this which is lifted from a pro Inteligent Design Creation site.

Evolution fails to provide answers

It is good to remember that, in spite of all the efforts of all the scientific laboratories around the world working over many decades, they have not been able to produce so much as a single human hair. How much more difficult is it to produce an entire body consisting of some 100 trillion cells!


Sound good huh? say "Hah!, they can't produce even a hair" But what is this guy inferring? Who even knows that any one lab, not to mention all the labs, all the time for many decades have been trying to produce a hair. Geez! I wonder how anything else got done while they were all trying to produce that hair.

There is a big problem with the idea of a creator. OK, now you say that life is so incredible and awesome, that is inconcievable to think it just happened, there must be an intelligence that created it. And I say well ok, now if there is a creator , then wow!, the creator must be something!

Hmmm.........................and who created him?

PS - About the back pain facts , this was from an in-depth analysis done for an industrial safety seminar I attended.
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Old 07-31-2009
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Go with white. Black is for commandos and emo losers.
I went with both ...... but a great answer !
  #21  
Old 07-31-2009
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Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
Everything has signs of intelligent design.
Why do some snakes have shoulder blades?

Why are birds bones hollow, which makes them lighter for flight, but bats bones are not? Is it because birds evolved towards flight long ago while bats relatively recently evolved flight independently? If animals were designed by a higher intelligence, why not give all animals that fly hollow bones?

Why are there mutations?

Evolution has been observed, so I think that pretty much wraps it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
If we aren't someones creation, life then kinda seems a bit depressing.
You are someones creation... your parents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
Ps: the reason for health ailments is due to genetics and our surroundings. Humans were designed to walk and run on soft soil, not hard concrete. Running on hard surfaces for extended periods of time overstresses joints and causes back and leg problems.
Why do humans live longer then in the modern world than we did back in the stone age?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TS_aficionado View Post
Here's one: if you travel to Jupiter and you found a sort of advanced computer and a sort of advanced air, water and land vehicle, would your first thought be, "This evolved into this state"? Or "I wonder where the designers are. Hiding?"
I wanted to chime in on this one too...

Is there only one, or at least very few of these things? Are there other varieties of these things that suggests some kind of heritage? Are they made up of materials found on Jupiter (i.e. mostly hydrogen)? Do they demonstrate any means of reproduction which evolution would require? Do they get their energy supply from the environment or from an internal supply? I suspect the answers to these questions would lead you to conclude that they are intelligently designed.

On the other hand, if an alien comes to earth and finds a human. Does he think it's intelligently designed?
* Is there only one or very few? No, there are billions - each sharing many commonalities but also subtle differences.
* Are there other varieties of these things that suggests some kind of heritage? Yes, there are a wide range of other life forms and fossil records ranging from apes to amoebas that suggest a heritage of traits. Ranging from simple life forms 3.8 billion years ago to complex life forms seen now.
* Are they made up of materials found on earth? Yes
Do they demonstrate any means of reproduction which evolution would require? Yes
* Do they get their energy supply from the environment or from an internal supply? They consume other plants/animals for efficient access to organic compounds for energy and self repair.

Conclusion: Humans evolved here.
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Old 07-31-2009
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Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorque View Post
Evolution fails to provide answers

It is good to remember that, in spite of all the efforts of all the scientific laboratories around the world working over many decades, they have not been able to produce so much as a single human hair. How much more difficult is it to produce an entire body consisting of some 100 trillion cells!
So the proof that humans were not designed is that we cannot redesign something like a hair? Doesn't that suggest that it is hard to design something as complex as humans and that another process was used... like evolution?
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Old 07-31-2009
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Default Design?

The intelligent design believers need to be reminded that humans took spider web genes from spiders, inserted them into goat eggs. Then raised the goats and guess what! The goats produce spider web in their milk!
It is only a matter of time until humans will be producing life from inert materials.
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Old 07-31-2009
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TracyCoxx:

"Is there only one or very few? No, there are billions - each sharing many commonalities but also subtle differences."

One human would obviously enough be designed. Billions would be an open and shut case.

"Are there other varieties of these things that suggests some kind of heritage? Yes, there are a wide range of other life forms and fossil records ranging from apes to amoebas that suggest a heritage of traits. Ranging from simple life forms 3.8 billion years ago to complex life forms seen now."

That suggestion is merely a something some Earthlings believe (a theory). It is not a fact.

"Do they demonstrate any means of reproduction which evolution would require? "

But reproduction does not go against intelligent design. The designer created this mechanism to allow the different species to continue existing.

"Conclusion: Humans evolved here."

If we take your previous points, then this the scenario we need to believe happened: There was nothing. Then (somehow) planets and materials existed. Then (somehow) simple life forms existed (this is miraculous on its own). Then amazingly enough, and without any guiding hand, this simple life form (somehow) got more complex over time. Then (somehow) it developed intelligence and consciousness. Then (somehow) it became millions upon millions of different species, including humans. Even an Atheist would require God for a somehow-laced scenario like that. If you take the somehows and fill in the blanks with "over the course of billions of years", that won't make it any more plausible, since order can not form in a random environment. Again, this is akin to putting all the right materials somewhere, then after billions of years expecting the materials to somehow put themselves together, form a computer, then form artificial intelligence. Impossible. Even more impossible if we expect inanimate objects to form real intelligence, language, DNA, life and consciousness.
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Old 07-31-2009
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Randolph:

"The intelligent design believers need to be reminded that humans took spider web genes from spiders, inserted them into goat eggs. Then raised the goats and guess what! The goats produce spider web in their milk!
It is only a matter of time until humans will be producing life from inert materials."


Ah, but you forgot that in order for that spider web goat milk to happen, it *required* an intelligent force (this time humans) who created the right environments then supervised this process until its success

The same thing with the universe: it required an intelligent force (God) to create all this material out of literally nothing, then provide us with the means to procreate and continue to exist. Even our orbit is meticulously calculated: a little further away from the sun, we'd freeze. A little closer, we'd burn. Gravity, plants, animals, everything is there for us to keep existing. Personally I'd go with a supernatural, intelligent designer than some big galactic coincidence.
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Old 07-31-2009
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Angry Postman: Thank you for your candor. Cheers
  #27  
Old 07-31-2009
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Originally Posted by TS_aficionado View Post
If we take your previous points, then this the scenario we need to believe happened: There was nothing. Then (somehow) planets and materials existed. Then (somehow) simple life forms existed (this is miraculous on its own). Then amazingly enough, and without any guiding hand, this simple life form (somehow) got more complex over time. Then (somehow) it developed intelligence and consciousness. Then (somehow) it became millions upon millions of different species, including humans. Even an Atheist would require God for a somehow-laced scenario like that. If you take the somehows and fill in the blanks with "over the course of billions of years", that won't make it any more plausible, since order can not form in a random environment. Again, this is akin to putting all the right materials somewhere, then after billions of years expecting the materials to somehow put themselves together, form a computer, then form artificial intelligence. Impossible. Even more impossible if we expect inanimate objects to form real intelligence, language, DNA, life and consciousness.
Who said that first was nothing? No accepted Theories know what was in the beginning of our universe. But not knowing does not say that there was nothing, or something must create this.

I skip some time periods that are way under 1 second and I keep it simple and short. I skip antiparticles as well. The universe cools rapidly, Quarks occur. Quarks form Hadrons, which form Protons, Neutrons and Neutrinos. Leptons occur like Electrons. After 10 seconds Protons and Neutrons had a nuclear fusion to the first Atoms (first materials).
Planets occur much later. About 1 million years cloud of matter collapse because of gravitation. This created stars, planets and galaxies.

Chemical reactions formed Amino Acids, Lipids and Purines. They are all essential for our life forms. This is proven, search for chemical evolution and/or the Miller-Urey experiment, this is the most common.
Life itself gets more complicated. What is life? Define life so I don't have to explain everything. Must there be a Metabolism, Growth, Reproduction, and so on. Focus on Virus, Viroid, Prion, Fire, Cell, Spore(not the game) and Cryptobiosis. I'm not all knowing, but I try to answer further questions on life, it doesn't occur suddenly.

Microorganism can cooperate with other, and they exchange DNA. The DNA can grow by adding other DNA, or two Microorganisms live symbiotic and fusion together so that more than one DNA string is in a cell, typical for Microorganism. The complexity comes over time. I don't think I have to explain evolution. But if you have doubts about it and understand biology and genetic, than take a closer look at Epigenetics. Especially the problem with the "random mutations"
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Old 07-31-2009
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Default LOL This is simply a repeat of what you can see elsewhere on the net.

Same story in a new location.

On one side you have the anti Intelligent Design Theory people who can present scientific facts that back up their position. They have no problem understanding the other sides position since they are human also and are susceptible to the same influences. Don't think they don't wish in their hearts for "pie in the sky". They however have been able to look at matters as they are, and not how they wish they could be.

On the other side, you have the Intelligent Design advocates who usually can demonstrate only their ignorance of scientific matters. They look at a structure like the eye and think how could something this complex evolve. Do they take the time to go on the net or find a book that shows the evolution of the eye step by step? No, they would rather wallow in their ignorance and remain in the dark ages.

They will say that some scientist doesn't believe in evolution and use them as a source of authority. If they knew their history, they would know that at one time the majority of scientists didn't believe man would ever be able to fly. Yet here we are with millions of people flying every year. Just because someone is termed scientist doesn't make him the authority. Scientific authority is arrived at by a consensus of scientists which in itself is constantly evolving as new theories are confirmed or negated by scientific studies.

One important thing to remember in this evolution vs God controversy is that religion (the idea of God or Gods) has had a big head start. It is only recently, the last few hundred years, that the sciences have really been able to begin to brush away the fog that is man's ignorance of the universe about us. The Intelligent Design theory is just religion's latest attempt to hold back the tide that is sweeping away all that they once held as truth. The Catholic Church no longer disputes that evolution is a fact. Think about that for a bit. This is the same organization that once tortured, burned, and hung people for believing anything but strict canon.

There is no evidence of a creator, I repeat; THERE IS NO EVIDENCE!!!
And yes, I have looked at so called evidence that makes the objections presented here seem like the simple nitpicking of schoolkids that they are.I say to you nitpickers, "Until you have really read the literature and understand what the Theory of Evolution is about, you are only displaying your ignorance."
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Default Thanks Tread nice post

But I doubt many of the ID folk understood it.

Actually, the religious folks have my sympathy. They have been conditioned by a culture that has religious belief as one of the main under pinnings of the foundation. It is very hard to put the nonsense behind you to really look at what is proven fact. Even so, think how hard it was for someone like Galileo to go against the teachings of the church and to assert that the sun and not the earth was at the center of the solar system. I'd say he was damn fortunate to not lose his life completely over it.

I have a challenge for the ID people. Present one solid piece of evidence that indicates that there is a Creator. Show me one thing that cannot be explained by any other factor than that there was a creator who made it so. I double dare ya! I'll warn you now that simply because we don't know how something came to be does not by default mean that there is intelligent design responsible for it; all it means is that we dont know, YET!
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Old 08-01-2009
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"Are there other varieties of these things that suggests some kind of heritage? Yes, there are a wide range of other life forms and fossil records ranging from apes to amoebas that suggest a heritage of traits. Ranging from simple life forms 3.8 billion years ago to complex life forms seen now."

That suggestion is merely a something some Earthlings believe (a theory). It is not a fact.
Of course it's a theory, as is everything in science. It's not just a hypothesis. It's a theory that is backed up by observational evidence and used to predict results that experiments have confirmed. Calling something a theory does not mean it's BS. We have a theory of the atom. From that theory we have all the marvels of modern life.

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"Do they demonstrate any means of reproduction which evolution would require? "

But reproduction does not go against intelligent design. The designer created this mechanism to allow the different species to continue existing.
By itself it is not proof of evolution. But it is required for evolution. If this computer on Jupiter does not reproduce, we can immediately rule out evolution.

An Intelligent Design theory invalidates itself. It makes the assumption that complex entities cannot exist without being designed. A designer would have to be much more complex than what he has allegedly designed, and would therefore require an even more complex designer.... and so on. Until this paradox is addressed, the intelligent design hypothesis falls flat on its face.

And yes, Intelligent Design is only a hypothesis. It does not even reach a status that you ridicule, which is a theory. To advance beyond a hypothesis, intelligent design needs to make a prediction. Then an experiment would have to be designed to test the prediction. This has not been done. After the experiment confirms the prediction, the hypothesis will remain as is, or may need to be tweaked based on observations. This process is repeated over and over again until the hypothesis can reliably predict outcomes and explain observations. Intelligent design has done none of this. Evolution has.
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Jenae, why must you attack mine and others beliefs? Have you nothing better to do than to revert to ad hominem? I believe in a higher power because too many things are in too perfect order to be left to coincidence. I never said that you had to believe in what I said. I just gave an explanation of why. I never threatened to thump you over the head with a bible and flay you because you have differing beliefs. Don't ask a question if the purpose is to blast someone for difference of opinion. It is rather rude.
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when i reach the crossroads should i proceed forwards or go left or right ?
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I believe in a higher power because too many things are in too perfect order to be left to coincidence.
Perfect order? How do you explain Obama being president? People say the earth is so perfect for life too. Well it has to be. Otherwise life wouldn't be here. I mean, no one's going to be crawling around on Mercury saying how unsuitable their world is for life because mercury IS unsuitable for life. Odds are, there are a few, maybe many, planets around the universe where conditions are right for life. On those planets there is probably some form of life. Life that has reached a level of intelligence will be marveling at how perfect their world is for life. Everywhere else, it's hell. You'd either need some kind of life support system or it would be downright impossible to life there at all.
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Perfect order? How do you explain Obama being president? People say the earth is so perfect for life too. Well it has to be. Otherwise life wouldn't be here. I mean, no one's going to be crawling around on Mercury saying how unsuitable their world is for life because mercury IS unsuitable for life. Odds are, there are a few, maybe many, planets around the universe where conditions are right for life. On those planets there is probably some form of life. Life that has reached a level of intelligence will be marveling at how perfect their world is for life. Everywhere else, it's hell. You'd either need some kind of life support system or it would be downright impossible to life there at all.
You seem to be saying that Obama fits into the perfect order of life on earth, well I agree with you, he is a great example of a human being, smart intelligent, good looking, healthy and extremely irritating to conservatives. So you are not really conservative?
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Yeah right
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Tracy, what the hell is wrong with me having my own beliefs? Seriously? Secondly, does me believing in a Higher Power directly affect you in your daily life? Thirdly, where in my post did I say that science and religion couldn't mix?And most importantly, why the fuck must people not let this subject drop? Go create your own thread and stop harassing mine!
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Default I apologize, Tracy, for butting in on this, but...

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Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
Tracy, what the hell is wrong with me having my own beliefs? Seriously? Secondly, does me believing in a Higher Power directly affect you in your daily life? Thirdly, where in my post did I say that science and religion couldn't mix?And most importantly, why the fuck must people not let this subject drop? Go create your own thread and stop harassing mine!
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$

What is wrong with you having your own beliefs. Nothing is wrong with that. as long as you keep it to yourself. The problem is that people with religious beliefs ofttimes use those beliefs to justify evil. Just like leaders who say God is on our side, knowing full well that their religion actually teaches that God loves all his children. For hundred of years, people justified the enslavement of black people by saying the "Mark of Cain" was upon them. How many innocent people died at the hand of the Holy Inquisition who had God on their side. How many natives of the Americas died because they were "pagans" to the invaders from Europe that came bearing crosses and little black books. How many people died from the Sword of Allah. And so on down through the ages. Blood, blood BLOOD!!

The problem is that people like you who are unable to think for themselves are the same people who are so easily led by their noses to do horrible things to their fellow man, all in the name of God, or Allah, or even Satan. It is lazy people who don't even know their own religious teaching thoroughly that are so easily manipulated by other evil men. That is why so many consider George Bush nothing but a foolish puppet. That is why the founding fathers of America wrote it into their Constitution that there would be a separation of Church and State; they were all too aware of this problem. I have no problem with those who do really follow the teachings of Jesus or the true teachings of Mohammad as both are truly religions of tolerance and love for your fellow man and I think both would weep to see the evil and the blood shed in thier names.

So why don't we let this subject drop? Answer; Because of our instinct for survival that has come down to us throughout all the eons of evolution. Frankly, because we are scared of the Hell on Earth that we see the religious strife bringing upon us in this world of nuclear weapons, germ and chemical warfare, and other weapons of mass destruction. We are not talking about a people or a kingdom being wiped out now, we are looking at the extinction of Mankind. That is; Everybody, Everywhere! All! Inclusive! Nobody left!
And since we really truly believe their is no "pie in the sky", that will be it, kaput. No more. finis
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Old 08-02-2009
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Tracy, what the hell is wrong with me having my own beliefs? Seriously? Secondly, does me believing in a Higher Power directly affect you in your daily life? ... And most importantly, why the fuck must people not let this subject drop? Go create your own thread and stop harassing mine!
I'm not ridiculing you or trying to harass you. Are you holding a church service here or is this a discussion thread? I'm just pointing out flawed statements like "everything has signs of intelligent design", and the perfect order of everything that you mention. You're free to believe what you want. You presumably chose your belief system because you believe it fits best with reality. Have enough confidence in your belief system to know that it can withstand a few questions.

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Thirdly, where in my post did I say that science and religion couldn't mix?
I never said science and religion shouldn't mix. I never said you didn't think they should mix.. If you have no problem with religion mixing with science, then what is your problem with what I'm talking about here?
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I'm not ridiculing you or trying to harass you. Are you holding a church service here or is this a discussion thread? I'm just pointing out flawed statements like "everything has signs of intelligent design", and the perfect order of everything that you mention. You're free to believe what you want. You presumably chose your belief system because you believe it fits best with reality. Have enough confidence in your belief system to know that it can withstand a few questions.

I never said science and religion shouldn't mix. I never said you didn't think they should mix.. If you have no problem with religion mixing with science, then what is your problem with what I'm talking about here?
Well according to other people, I am unable to think for myself because I believe in a higher power and I should be responsible for other peoples actions because they fucked up in the past. My problem is that someone couldn't handle the answer I gave them and turned this subject against me. Plus if I wasn't typing on an Ipod, I would be able to write out a more thorough response.
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