Barack Obama

[randolph]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

TRACY:

So, Roberts' flub caused Obama to flub, which brings Obama's citizenship and motives into question? Any reasonable person would agree with you that Obama needs to be questioned, because it's so obvious?

TAL

Hey TAL. Don't you think someone is jerking your chain?

[The Conquistador]

It needs a bailout!

http://finance.yahoo.com/focus-retir...-readytoretire

Don't look now. But even as the bank bailout is winding down, another huge bailout is starting, this time for the Social Security system.

A report from the Congressional Budget Office shows that for the first time in 25 years, Social Security is taking in less in taxes than it is spending on benefits.

Instead of helping to finance the rest of the government, as it has done for decades, our nation's biggest social program needs help from the Treasury to keep benefit checks from bouncing -- in other words, a taxpayer bailout.

All that money that was deducted from your paycheck for Social Security was spent the moment it came out; and now the Fed needs you to bailout their reckless spending habits!

[The Conquistador]

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/60932


Transcript of video:

FIRST FRAME:

?The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined.?
--James Madison
Federalist No. 45

SECOND FRAME:

The health care bills approved by the House and Senate both mandate that individuals buy health insurance. Congress has never before ordered Americans to buy anything.

THIRD FRAME:

?The government has never required people to buy any good or service as a condition of lawful residence in the United States.?
--Congressional Budget Office Memorandum, August 1994

FOURTH FRAME:

Sen. Orrin Hatch (R.-Utah): ?If that is held constitutional--for them to be able to tell us we have to purchase health insurance--then there is literally nothing that the federal government can?t force us to do. Nothing.?

FIFTH FRAME:

CNSNews.com asked Members of Congress: Where does the Constitution authorize Congress to force individuals buy health insurance?

SIXTH FRAME:

Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy (D.-Vt.)
CNSNews.com: "Where, in your opinion, does the Constitution give specific authority for Congress to give an individual mandate for health insurance?"

Leahy: "We have plenty of authority. Are you saying there is no authority?"

CNSNews.com: "I?m asking--"

Leahy: "Why would you say there is no authority? I mean, there?s no question there?s authority. Nobody questions that."

SEVENTH FRAME:

House Speaker Pelosi Nancy Pelosi (D.-Calif.)
CNSNews.com: ?Madam Speaker, where specifically does the Constitution grant Congress the authority to enact an individual health insurance mandate??

Pelosi: ?Are you serious? Are you serious??

EIGHTH FRAME:

Sen. Mark Warner (D.-Va.)
?There is no place in the competition, in the Constitution, there is no place in the Constitution, there is no place in the Constitution, there is no place in the Constitution, there is no place in the Constitution that talks about you ought to have the right to get a telephone, but we have made those choices as a country over the years.?

CNSNews.com: ?Does the Constitution give Congress the authority to mandate whether individuals should purchase health insurance ? to mandate that they have to purchase health insurance??
Warner: ?The United States Congress passed laws regarding Medicare and Medicaid that became de facto mandatory programs. States all the time require people to have driver?s licenses. I think that this is a bit of a spurious argument that?s being made by some folks.?

NINTH FRAME:

Sen. Bob Casey (D.-Pa.)
CNSNews.com: ?Where does the Constitution give Congress that authority, for an individual health care mandate??

Casey: ?Well, I don?t know if there?s a specific constitutional provision.

TENTH FRAME:

Sen. Daniel Akaka (D.-Hawaii)
CNSNews.com: ?Does the United States Constitution give the United States Congress the authority to mandate individuals to have health insurance, to carry health insurance?

Akaka: ?I?m not aware of that--let me put it that way. ?

CNSNews.com: ?Is there any specific area of the Constitution that would give Congress the authority to be able to mandate individuals to have to purchase health insurance??

Senator Akaka: ?Not in particular with health insurance. It?s not covered in that respect.

ELEVENTH FRAME:

Sen. Roland Burris (D.-Ill.)
CNSNews.com: ?Federally, if you look at it from a federal standpoint, what area specifically of the Constitution would give Congress the power to mandate an individual to have health insurance??

Senator Burris: ?Well, that?s under certainly the laws of the--protect the health, welfare of the country. That?s under the Constitution. We?re not even dealing with any constitutionality here. Should we move in that direction? What does the Constitution say? To provide for the health, welfare and the defense of the country.?

TWELFTH FRAME:

Sen. Jack Reed (D.-R.I.)
CNSNews.com: ?Specifically where in the Constitution does Congress get its authority to mandate that individuals purchase health insurance??

Reed: ?Let me see. I would have to check the specific sections. So, I?ll have to get back to you on the specific section. But it is not unusual that the Congress has required individuals to do things, like sign up for the draft.

THIRTEENTH FRAME:

Sen. Bernard Sanders (I.-Vt.)
CNSNews.com: ?Where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority for a health insurance mandate??

Sanders: ?Where in the Constitution? Probably the same place that comes Medicare and Medicaid and the CHIP Program and the Veterans Administration, and the health care programs that we?ve been doing for many, many decades.?

FOURTEENTH FRAME:

Sen. Sherrod Brown (D.-Ohio)
CNSNews.com: ?Where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority for an individual health care mandate??

Brown: ?The same part of the Constitution that allows us to have Medicare. When I hear people that think this is a constitutional issue, my first question to them is, ?Do you want to repeal Medicare?? And some people, politically, are so extreme in this country that they want to repeal Medicare, and I think they?re dead wrong.?

FIFTEENTH FRAME:

Sen. Claire McCaskill (D.-Mo.)
CNSNews.com: ?Specifically where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority to mandate that individuals buy health insurance??

McCaskill: ?Well the -- we have all kinds of places where the government has gotten involved with health care and mandating insurance. In most states, the government mandates the buying of car insurance, and I can assure everyone that if anything in this bill is unconstitutional, the Supreme Court will weigh in.?

SIXTEENTH FRAME:

Sen. Jeff Merkley (D.-Ore.)
CNSNews.com: ?Specifically, where in the Constitution does Congress get its authority to mandate that individuals purchase health care??

Merkley: ?The very first enumerated power is power to provide for the common defense and the general welfare. So it?s right on, right on the front end.?

CNSNews.com: ?Okay, if that?s the case--?

Press Secretary: ?Thank you. I?m sorry, we have to get going. Thank you.?

SEVENTEENTH FRAME:

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D.-Calif.)
CNSNews.com: ?Where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority for an individual health insurance mandate??

Feinstein: ?Well, I would assume it would be in the Commerce clause of the Constitution. That?s how Congress legislates all kinds of various programs.?

EIGHTEENTH FRAME:

Sen. Kent Conrad (D.-N.D.)
CNSNews.com: ?Could you specifically say where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority to mandate that individuals get health insurance??

Conrad: ?No, but I?ll refer you to the legal counsel for the Senate and they?re the ones that lead there as the full legal basis for the individual mandate--and I assume it?s in the Commerce clause.?

NINETEENTH FRAME:

Sen. Mary Landrieu (D.-La.)
CNSNews.com: ? What part of the Constitution do you think gives Congress the authority to mandate that individuals have to purchase health insurance??

Landrieu: ?Well, we?re very lucky as members of the Senate to have constitutional lawyers on our staff, so I?ll let them answer that.

TWENTIETH FRAME:

Sen. Ben Nelson (D.-Neb.)
CNSNews.com: ?Specifically, where in the Constitution does Congress get its authority to mandate that individuals purchase health insurance??

Nelson: ?Well, you know, I don?t know that I?m a constitutional scholar. So, I, I?m not going to be able to answer that question.?

TWENTY-FIRST FRAME:

Sen. Richard Lugar (R.-Ind.)
CNSNews.com: ?Where does Congress find the authority to mandate that people buy health insurance??

Lugar: ?I don?t have any idea

TWENTY-SECOND FRAME:

Sen. John McCain (R.-Ariz.)
CNSNews.com: "Senator, on the health care issue, where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority to mandate that individuals get healthcare?"

McCain: "That is an excellent question, and I?m sure that if they pass health care legislation, I think there would be a challenge.?

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by randolph

Hey TAL. Don't you think someone is jerking your chain?

RANDY:

NO!! Conse 'Pubs call it political debate, and in this case Tracy feels it's a matter of equal opinions. The other type of debate is an honest debate. In a political debate evolution vs. creationism are equal opinions.

In their thinking there is NOTHING Obama can do to prove otherwise unless he meets each one in person to hand them an original of his birth certificate, and mark my words this issue will not go away until he leaves The WH--maybe, not even then.

39% of Conse 'Pubs feel that Obama is not an American, and an additional 29% are not sure. That's 68%! These are the people who cannot believe that Bush 43 was questioned.

Notice the recent use of the word r-ded once by R. Emanuel. Palin called for his resignation as the only way for the apology to mean anything, but Limbaugh uses the more offensive r-ard SIX times. That however is repeating Emanuel which is okay, and/or an affront to being to PC, which is more than okay.

TAL

[Talvenada]

[QUOTE=TracyCoxx;131281]Yeah it was Roberts who flubbed it, but it caused BO to flub it as well, which is why he redid it. My point remains.

QUOTE]

TRACY:

Randy doesn't think you're being serious.

Set him straight.

TAL

[randolph]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

RANDY:

NO!! Conse 'Pubs call it political debate, and in this case Tracy feels it's a matter of equal opinions. The other type of debate is an honest debate. In a political debate evolution vs. creationism are equal opinions.

In their thinking there is NOTHING Obama can do to prove otherwise unless he meets each one in person to hand them an original of his birth certificate, and mark my words this issue will not go away until he leaves The WH--maybe, not even then.

39% of Conse 'Pubs feel that Obama is not an American, and an additional 29% are not sure. That's 68%! These are the people who cannot believe that Bush 43 was questioned.


Notice the recent use of the word r-ded once by R. Emanuel. Palin called for his resignation as the only way for the apology to mean anything, but Limbaugh uses the more offensive r-ard SIX times. That however is repeating Emanuel which is okay, and/or an affront to being to PC, which is more than okay.

TAL

I think this whole issue of the birth certificate is nothing more than egregious racism.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

Is Obama deliberately ruining the country?

I've wondered that. Because after seeing what he's doing, he's either a complete moron or he's doing on it purpose. Trying to stay on that narrow line where he does the most damage, yet keeps from being impeached.

Before taking office he didn't mince words. He said he was going to fundamentally change America. Also that he wanted to spread the wealth around. He appointed communist revolutionaries as his czars.

He said under his plan for cap & trade, electricity rates would sky rocket. Gee, do you think that's wise to do when we were approaching 10% unemployment and the national debt was skyrocketing? This is either a stupid move or the policy of someone trying to ruin the country.

Have you heard of the Apollo Alliance? They combine environmental policy with labor and social justice. It's run by a self professed communist (although I'm sure that word isn't offensive to you guys). Van Jones was one of the founding members of Apollo. The founder of the corrupt organization, ACORN is also funding Apollo. Jeff Jones, one of the founders of the terrorist group Weather Underground was on the run for about a decade and then caught by the feds. After he got out of prison he now chairs the Apollo Alliance. The Apollo Alliance is a scary group of shady characters, ex-cons, and corrupt organizations. Why then would Obama and Harry Reid have the Apollo Alliance write much of the stimulus package?

When the country is undergoing financial crisis, which ACORN lobbied heavily for its major cause, only an idiot, or someone wanting to ruin the economy would tack on another several $trillion in debt not just last year, but each year following. All this is putting the credit rating of the US in danger. The federal debt limit was just raised almost 100% with Obama's 2010 budget, to $14.3 trillion vs. $7.8 trillion in 2005. The Congressional Budget Office predicts future deficits around 4% through 2020. Get it? America's debt at 84% of GDP will soon pass that toxic 90% trigger point. Right now interest rates are being held artificially low. But eventually, probably before the end of BO's term, the government will have to raise interest rates at least 25% to recoup the money it printed. Don't say I didn't warn you... have your credit cards paid off!

Columbia University sociologists Richard Andrew Cloward and his wife Frances Fox Piven said the best way to bring about the change they sought was to get everyone on welfare, so that the system would eventually collapse under its own weight. The "Cloward-Piven Strategy" seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse. This is a way to change the country, not with revolutionary change, but evolutionary change. The end goal is the same though. A very strong case could be made that the radicals in the Obama administration, including the radical himself, are following the Cloward-Piven playbook to "Fundamentally change America".

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

So, Roberts' flub caused Obama to flub, which brings Obama's citizenship and motives into question? Any reasonable person would agree with you that Obama needs to be questioned, because it's so obvious?

Try and follow along. I used the oath of office as an example that BO doesn't want any questions about the validity of his presidency. So why wouldn't he show his birth certificate for the same reason, especially since he wasn't even required to redo the oath of office.

Originally Posted by Talvenada

In their thinking there is NOTHING Obama can do to prove otherwise unless he meets each one in person to hand them an original of his birth certificate, and mark my words this issue will not go away until he leaves The WH--maybe, not even then.

I don't feel that way, and I doubt most other conservatives feel that way.

Originally Posted by Talvenada

Notice the recent use of the word r-ded once by R. Emanuel. Palin called for his resignation as the only way for the apology to mean anything, but Limbaugh uses the more offensive r-tard SIX times. That however is repeating Emanuel which is okay, and/or an affront to being to PC, which is more than okay.

Well Palin is wrong. She's letting her emotions about her retard child get in the way of policy. Political correctness is the problem, not freedom of speech.

Originally Posted by randolph

I think this whole issue of the birth certificate is nothing more than egregious racism.

Randolf, why is that racism? This should be standard procedure for ANY presidential candidate.

[Talvenada]

TRACY:

I'm not going to even read posts that sound like a certain show.

TAL

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Try and follow along. I used the oath of office as an example that BO doesn't want any questions about the validity of his presidency. So why wouldn't he show his birth certificate for the same reason, especially since he wasn't even required to redo the oath of office.

I don't feel that way, and I doubt most other conservatives feel that way.


Randolf, why is that racism? This should be standard procedure for ANY presidential candidate.

RANDY:

Obama had shown his birth certificate long ago, but here it is 6 to 9 months later, and Conse 'Pubs still want to see the BC. How Hillary & McCain didn't go after this indicates that we can only trust a Conse 'Pub in The WH, no?

I've seen a Conse 'Pub on TV hold the BC in his hand, and not change his tune for even 1 second. So, I say again there is NOTHING Obama can do that they will accept. They will continue to claim they only want to see his BC, because they want to reach the uninformed with fuzzy logic. It's a political debate, which means Obama is not an American is an EQUAL opinion.


TAL

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Try and follow along. I used the oath of office as an example that BO doesn't want any questions about the validity of his presidency. So why wouldn't he show his birth certificate for the same reason, especially since he wasn't even required to redo the oath of office.

I don't feel that way, and I doubt most other conservatives feel that way.

Well Palin is wrong. She's letting her emotions about her retard child get in the way of policy. Political correctness is the problem, not freedom of speech.

Randolf, why is that racism? This should be standard procedure for ANY presidential candidate.

Log into factcheck.org, photos of the birth certificate are there with interviews of the officials in charge of the birth records in Hawaii, who say this whole controversy is ridiculous. Attached is a photo showing the embossed stamp on his birth certificate. Right wing agitators will do anything to stir up trouble.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Log into factcheck.org, photos of the birth certificate are there with interviews of the officials in charge of the birth records in Hawaii, who say this whole controversy is ridiculous. Attached is a photo showing the embossed stamp on his birth certificate. Right wing agitators will do anything to stir up trouble.

Yeah, I've got one of those too...

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

I'm not going to even read posts that sound like a certain show.

I use more than one source for my info. And I understand if you want to take any excuse you can to try and blow it off rather than address it.

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

I use more than one source for my info. And I understand if you want to take any excuse you can to try and blow it off rather than address it.

TRACY:

Yes, you have other sources besides Glenn Beck.

Beck says he's a commie, Nazi, and the whole admin. is filled with commies.

Coulter says he's deliberately ruining the country.

Limbaugh says he caused the economy to fail on 9/08.

Hannity says the town hallers were little old ladies.

Levin says he wants to take our money and give it to inner city scum.

So, you want me to offer a counter opinion to Obama in the above accusations that are presented as fact?

TAL

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Yeah, I've got one of those too...

RANDY:

Now do you understand that nothing is good enough!!


TAL

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

Beck says he's a commie, Nazi, and the whole admin. is filled with commies.

Here's what his administration is made of:
Van Jones - http://www.eastbayexpress.com/gyroba...wFullText=true
"Jones had planned to move to Washington, DC, and had already landed a job and an apartment there. But in jail, he said, "I met all these young radical people of color -- I mean really radical, communists and anarchists. And it was, like, 'This is what I need to be a part of.'" Although he already had a plane ticket, he decided to stay in San Francisco. "I spent the next ten years of my life working with a lot of those people I met in jail, trying to be a revolutionary." In the months that followed, he let go of any lingering thoughts that he might fit in with the status quo. "I was a rowdy nationalist on April 28th, and then the verdicts came down on April 29th," he said. "By August, I was a communist.""

- John Holdren, science "czar" - proposed "compulsory sterilization" and forced abortions to control population.

- Cass Sunstein, regulatory "czar" - proposed bans on hunting and eating meat and proposed that your dog to be allowed to have an attorney in court. And a fairness doctrine for the Internet, which he has since stepped away from. I don't know if commie's want lawyers for dogs, but strange never the less.

- Carol Browner, global warming "czar" - was part of Socialist International, a group for "global governance"

- Ezekiel Emmanuel, health care adviser - proponent of the Complete Lives System, which puts values on lives based mostly by age. Socialist health care.

Originally Posted by Talvenada

Levin says he wants to take our money and give it to inner city scum.

That's called redistribution of wealth. BO said it himself.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

Now do you understand that nothing is good enough!!

Just an illustration to show how easy this is to do and to show why originals are needed. It's only the presidency.

And for the record, I'm not accusing him of not being a natural born US citizen. I'm just pointing out that it makes himself look suspicious that he doesn't bring forth an original copy of his birth certificate, especially when it's one of the few eligibility requirements for being president.

[m666]

Well, TracyCoxx, If you are able to explain to me how a czar can be a socialist, you win the sports car!

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

I've wondered that. Because after seeing what he's doing, he's either a complete moron or he's doing on it purpose. Trying to stay on that narrow line where he does the most damage, yet keeps from being impeached.

Before taking office he didn't mince words. He said he was going to fundamentally change America. Also that he wanted to spread the wealth around. He appointed communist revolutionaries as his czars.

He said under his plan for cap & trade, electricity rates would sky rocket. Gee, do you think that's wise to do when we were approaching 10% unemployment and the national debt was skyrocketing? This is either a stupid move or the policy of someone trying to ruin the country.

Have you heard of the Apollo Alliance? They combine environmental policy with labor and social justice. It's run by a self professed communist (although I'm sure that word isn't offensive to you guys). Van Jones was one of the founding members of Apollo. The founder of the corrupt organization, ACORN is also funding Apollo. Jeff Jones, one of the founders of the terrorist group Weather Underground was on the run for about a decade and then caught by the feds. After he got out of prison he now chairs the Apollo Alliance. The Apollo Alliance is a scary group of shady characters, ex-cons, and corrupt organizations. Why then would Obama and Harry Reid have the Apollo Alliance write much of the stimulus package?

When the country is undergoing financial crisis, which ACORN lobbied heavily for its major cause, only an idiot, or someone wanting to ruin the economy would tack on another several $trillion in debt not just last year, but each year following. All this is putting the credit rating of the US in danger. The federal debt limit was just raised almost 100% with Obama's 2010 budget, to $14.3 trillion vs. $7.8 trillion in 2005. The Congressional Budget Office predicts future deficits around 4% through 2020. Get it? America's debt at 84% of GDP will soon pass that toxic 90% trigger point. Right now interest rates are being held artificially low. But eventually, probably before the end of BO's term, the government will have to raise interest rates at least 25% to recoup the money it printed. Don't say I didn't warn you... have your credit cards paid off!

Columbia University sociologists Richard Andrew Cloward and his wife Frances Fox Piven said the best way to bring about the change they sought was to get everyone on welfare, so that the system would eventually collapse under its own weight. The "Cloward-Piven Strategy" seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse. This is a way to change the country, not with revolutionary change, but evolutionary change. The end goal is the same though. A very strong case could be made that the radicals in the Obama administration, including the radical himself, are following the Cloward-Piven playbook to "Fundamentally change America".

TRACY:


Paragraph 1: Debate you that Obama is ruining the country deliberately?

Paragraph 2: Debate you about the admin. of commies and czars?

Paragraph 3: Debate you that Obama said electricity rates would skyrocket with his approval?

Paragraph 4: Debate you that the admin. is filled with commies, crooks, and terrorists from day 1, and that these people are controlling legislation?

Paragraph 5: Debate you on numbers from 2020 that are presented as fact, which are presented as 100% due to Obama?

Paragraph 6: Debate you that this is an admin. filled with radicals, run by a radical? That's what Hannity and Levin believe.


With the reality of these issues, I would blow you off?

TAL

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

Paragraph 3: Debate you that Obama said electricity rates would skyrocket with his approval?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlTxGHn4sH4

Oh, I'm just such a right wing whack job.
Want to keep going?

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Just an illustration to show how easy this is to do and to show why originals are needed. It's only the presidency.

And for the record, I'm not accusing him of not being a natural born US citizen. I'm just pointing out that it makes himself look suspicious that he doesn't bring forth an original copy of his birth certificate, especially when it's one of the few eligibility requirements for being president.

TRACY:

What does Obama have to do to convince you? Please elaborate.

TAL

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

What does Obama have to do to convince you? Please elaborate.

Congress certifies the votes. They should validate any accompanying paperwork as well. Normally I'd say it's ok to present a copy, but enough questions arose to prompt a federal court to ask BO to present his birth certificate. Up to this point no red flags were raised in my mind. This is the usual behind the scenes stuff you see in an election. But when BO refused and spent millions to block the order, then that got my attention. Considering that candidates routinely present birth certificates, medical records, tax forms, whatever if any issues are brought up to immediately allay any concerns before they fester and become issues.

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlTxGHn4sH4

Oh, I'm just such a right wing whack job.
Want to keep going?

TRACY:

I summarized what you wrote as issues, and said I wouldn't debate you on. I didn't call you anything. I said what you wanted to debate on, and they are issues I've heard from Coulter, Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, Levin and Palin.

No offense, but what I was saying is I won't waste my time defending Obama on attack issues, like Obama is a terrorist. Sorry.

You are saying debate you on these issues, or I'm insulting you, no?


TAL

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

I summarized what you wrote as issues, and said I wouldn't debate you on. I didn't call you anything. I said what you wanted to debate on, and they are issues I've heard from Coulter, Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, Levin and Palin.

No offense, but what I was saying is I won't waste my time defending Obama on attack issues, like Obama is a terrorist. Sorry.

You are saying debate you on these issues, or I'm insulting you, no?

You said above you wouldn't discuss them because you thought it was all from Glenn Beck, the right-wing whack job. Not that you called him or I that, but it's implied. Sorry if I misunderstood you, but I wasn't sure if english was your 1st language and I didn't quite understand your posting where you summarized my issues. If you don't want to debate those issues, fine. But I consider all of them pretty serious, especially when taken together. And as I've shown on the 3rd issue, the source isn't Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, Levin, Coulter or Palin. It was Obama. Much of the information I have are direct sources.

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

You said above you wouldn't discuss them because you thought it was all from Glenn Beck, the right-wing whack job. Not that you called him or I that, but it's implied. Sorry if I misunderstood you, but I wasn't sure if english was your 1st language and I didn't quite understand your posting where you summarized my issues. If you don't want to debate those issues, fine. But I consider all of them pretty serious, especially when taken together. And as I've shown on the 3rd issue, the source isn't Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, Levin, Coulter or Palin. It was Obama. Much of the information I have are direct sources.

TRACY:

Firstly, thank you, for the illiterate insult.

I said they were ATTACK issues!!

Guilt by association, guilt by location.

Association like Bill Ayers equals pals around with terrorists.

Geography like Chicago equals Obama is a crook too.

Example only: McCain hung around with commies for years. How did he get out alive without there being a reason? Just sayin.

These are ATTACK issues, and they are done by political people--like you who despise Obama to begin with without a reason, and hate after you have a reason. The point is to create as many doubts about your political rival as you can.

I know you cannot attack a war hero, or a president (Bush 43) during wartime.

TAL

[randolph]

well said.

These are ATTACK issues, and they are done by political people--like you who despise Obama to begin with without a reason, and hate after you have a reason. The point is to create as many doubts about your political rival as you can.

Its really sad there is so much hate among conservatives. A little reason and compromise could go a long way toward solving many of our problems. If the hate mongers, Rush, et all would just go away so we could live in peace.
Cant we just love each other as fellow humans?

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

These are ATTACK issues, and they are done by political people--like you who despise Obama to begin with without a reason, and hate after you have a reason.

On what basis do you claim I despised Obama without reason?

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Its really sad there is so much hate among conservatives. A little reason and compromise could go a long way toward solving many of our problems. If the hate mongers, Rush, et all would just go away so we could live in peace.
Cant we just love each other as fellow humans?

I don't know what to say. I realize now how hateful I've been. All I have to do is think back to when Bush was in office to remember how loving and understanding Democrats were about him. I am sorry, please forgive me and the other conservative hate mongers.

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

On what basis do you claim I despised Obama without reason?

Before, I merely despised him.

TRACY:

Remember, you said this without a reason attached to it?


TAL

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

Remember, you said this without a reason attached to it?

I said

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Before, I merely despised him. Seeing as how BO has now targeted my job and lifelong goal I am in a particularly foul mood when it comes to him today.

I didn't think I had to put a reason on it. There's 31 pages of my reasons on this thread

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

I don't know what to say. I realize now how hateful I've been. All I have to do is think back to when Bush was in office to remember how loving and understanding Democrats were about him. I am sorry, please forgive me and the other conservative hate mongers.

TRACY:

BTW, there was no reason for me to post the entire line, as it had no affect on context. Just pointing that out.

RANDY:

Conse 'Pubs feel that going after Obama every day on every thing is payback for Bush 43. The unwashed inferiors had the nerve to UNJUSTLY criticize Bush 43 for torture, wire tapping, Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, The Iraq War, bin Laden still at large and 112 other questionable actions. And, yes, Tracy will no doubt justify every action from those 8 years that are mentioned above, while there is no justifying a single move by Obama--not one.

Of course, attacking Clinton required no payback, and honestly do you think Conse 'Pubs need a reason to attack Obama? I don't, how 'bout you, Randy?


TAL

[CCC]

Originally Posted by randolph

well said.



Its really sad there is so much hate among conservatives. A little reason and compromise could go a long way toward solving many of our problems. If the hate mongers, Rush, et all would just go away so we could live in peace.
Cant we just love each other as fellow humans?

You sound like a contestant for Miss America--that won't happen til the Liberal Dems stop messing with the Consitution, the Bill of Rights and my wallet.

[jimnaseum]

Originally Posted by randolph

Its really sad there is so much hate among conservatives.

Not hate, Randy, FEAR.

[randolph]

Well guys, I am "retiring" from this thread, its becoming "threadbare".
It's more fun writing erotic stories and thinking about lovely tgirls.

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by CCC

You sound like a contestant for Miss America--that won't happen til the Liberal Dems stop messing with the Consitution, the Bill of Rights and my wallet.

RANDY:

They want their country back to the good old days of TAX CUTS!!!


It's all about the full wallet.


TAL

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Well guys, I am "retiring" from this thread, its becoming "threadbare".
It's more fun writing erotic stories and thinking about lovely tgirls.

Well it's been stimulating debating with you. You were the most objective of them and you knew what you were talking about. Post your stories ok?

[jimnaseum]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

You were the most objective of them

What do you mean them?

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by jimnaseum

What do you mean them?

LOL!!!!!!!

[jimnaseum]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

LOL!!!!!!!

I'll stimulate you, Tracy.

[CreativeMind]

Originally Posted by randolph

Its really sad there is so much hate among conservatives. A little reason and compromise could go a long way toward solving many of our problems. If the hate mongers, Rush, et all would just go away so we could live in peace.

Originally Posted by jimnaseum

Not hate, Randy, FEAR.

Yeah, you guys are right.
No one on the Left could ever be accused of spreading hate and fear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLjAahyKfp0

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by jimnaseum

I'll stimulate you, Tracy.

I don't get it??

Originally Posted by CreativeMind

Yeah, you guys are right.
No one on the Left could ever be accused of spreading hate and fear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLjAahyKfp0

LOL that was awesome. There was a grown man having a temper tantrum on national TV.

[CCC]

Originally Posted by CreativeMind

Yeah, you guys are right.
No one on the Left could ever be accused of spreading hate and fear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLjAahyKfp0

What a jerk---does he think that is going to get him better ratings--I have more people listening to my radio show than him.

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by CreativeMind

Yeah, you guys are right.
No one on the Left could ever be accused of spreading hate and fear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLjAahyKfp0

JIM:

Translation: Unless you're perfect you cannot criticize the right, because they don't criticize--they ONLY disagree. You're not perfect if there is 1 thing to question, which means they can do a million things you think are wrong.

TAL

[ila]

^And apparently one cannot criticize the left without receiving a condescending snarky reply in return.

[franalexes]

No one is more intollerant of others than the left that claim to be tollerant.

[ila]

Originally Posted by franalexes

No one is more intollerant of others than the left that claim to be tollerant.

That is so true.

[randolph]

New Poll Results Are Proof That Republicans Don't Think


A poll commissioned by DailyKos shows just how far to the right the GOP has been dragged by its right wing...and how far out of step they are with the rest of America.
February 5, 2010 |




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A village cannot revise village life to suit the village idiot. -- Frank Schaeffer

On Tuesday, the Daily Kos published a new Research 2000 study showing the current state of belief in the GOP. Though the results aren't anything new -- indeed, the study just puts hard numbers to everything we already thought we knew about the right wing -- the data also show, in sharp detail, just how far to the right the GOP has been dragged by its right wing...and how far out of step they are with the rest of America as a result.
The data also show that Frank Schaeffer was more than fair in characterizing these people as America's "village idiots." For one thing, they really are a bitterly small minority. Last week, I laid out some numbers of my own, which showed that the conservative movement as it's currently constituted only represents the views of about 25 to 30 percent of Americans. (And, historically, that's about as big as conservative movements ever get in the US -- though it's plenty big enough to do some real damage.) Furthermore, according to a Washington Post/ABC News poll done last October, only about 20 percent of Americans currently identify as Republican, which is a 40-year low. There's nothing about our current GOP that can be supportably described as "mainstream."
Kos's pollsters did a valiant job of getting inside the heads of this 20 percent. But the story they tell also shows how severe the conservatives' level of derangement has become; and just how little introspection the conservatives have done to reckon with the causes and consequences of their own failures. And it also documents the vast chasm this willful refusal to deal with reality is creating between this noisy minority and the vast majority of Americans.
To grasp the size of the gap, you only have to compare Kos' numbers on conservative beliefs with the most current available stats on the attitudes of the country as a whole. So -- that's what I did below. This discussion doesn't address all of the the questions in Kos's summary, because good data wasn't available on some of them; but a look at most of the high points gives you an accurate picture of just how far out of the mainstream the GOP is pulling.
Should Barack Obama be impeached, or not?
Yes 39
No 32
Not Sure 29
Over a third of Republicans say Obama should be impeached. ("For what? Who the heck knows?" asks Kos. The beauty of being a village idiot is that you never have to explain yourself.) Nearly another third think it's an open question; only one-third say no.
But out in the Real America, Obama's Gallup approval ratings are well within the normal range for a one-year president. Since his TV appearances last week, they're up over 50% again -- and, as Rachel Maddow notes, the Omentum is rising.
Do you think Barack Obama is a socialist?
Yes 63
No 21
Not Sure 16
OK, fine. All faithful FOX watchers know that Obama is a socialist. But the problem for the village idiots is: it's increasingly true that socialism is a terrifying boogeyman that only they can see. For them, it's Mao and Stalin. For the rest of us, it's just another day of government-built roads and schools.
An April 2009 Rasmussen poll (and remember, Rasmussen's findings generally skew rightward) found that only 53% of Americans thought that capitalism was better than socialism. A full 20% though we could do with some more socialism around here; and 37% didn't have an opinion either way.
When nearly half the country no longer thinks that Socialism is Evil Incarnate, red-baiting just doesn't pack much of a political punch any more.
Do you believe Sarah Palin is more qualified to be President than Barack Obama?
Yes 53
No 14
Not Sure 33
For those of you thinking the "village idiot" metaphor is bit of hyperbole, consider for just a moment the sheer surreality of the idea that there could be any group, anywhere, in which half of everybody thinks that Sarah Palin would make a good president. Enough said?
But let's skip ahead to the facts. Which are these: A CBS News poll taken two weeks ago found that 71% of Americans do not want to Sarah Palin to run for president in 2012. Only 20% of us (apparently the same ones the Kos poll talked to) think this is a good idea.


Okay, I am not making personal comments on this thread, but I thought this article would be "educational".

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by ila

^And apparently one cannot criticize the left without receiving a condescending snarky reply in return.

ILA:

Hopefully, your politics in Canada are more pleasant than ours here south of the border. Me, I'm a Mod Dem, who went from slightly left of center to left of center after 8 years of Bush-Cheney.

It's been my experience that the left is willing to compromise, hear another opinion, realistic criticism, and honest debate. That said, the right likes political debate, which breaks down everything to equal opinions. In other words, Obama is not an American is equal and opinion only to those of us who think he's an American.

Me, If Obama pulled some of the stunts Bush pulled, I'd bust on him myself. Right now, Obama has 5 or 6 questionable actions, but it's too soon to say if any will turn out to be Bush-like.

TAL

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

Me, If Obama pulled some of the stunts Bush pulled, I'd bust on him myself. Right now, Obama has 5 or 6 questionable actions, but it's too soon to say if any will turn out to be Bush-like.

TAL

What 5 or 6 actions do you consider questionable?

[CreativeMind]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

JIM: Translation: Unless you're perfect you cannot criticize the right, because they don't criticize--they ONLY disagree. You're not perfect if there is 1 thing to question, which means they can do a million things you think are wrong.

TAL

Tal, just for the record, all I was saying with my post -- or rather letting Keith Olbermann make my point for me -- is that broad blanket statements like Randolph made ("Its sad there is so much hate among conservatives. If the hate mongers, Rush, et all would just go away so we could live in peace") and that Jim made ("Not hate, Randy, FEAR") really hold no water when statements of EQUAL anger and fear mongoring are made on the Left TOO.

Look, do I think Rush often goes over the top? Absolutely.
Do I think a Sean Hannity or Glenn Beck can go over the top? I do.
There -- I'll admit it and put it on the record.

But at the same time that you are trying to get that concession out of me, you can't honestly expect me (or others) to just look the other way and ignore the bitterness coming from the Left as well. Otherwise we'd have the equivalent of you and me squaring off in a boxing ring, at which point you say, "I'd like us to have a fair match." And then as soon as I say "sure" and start to turn, to go to my corner, you quickly blurt out "But I'm allowed to get in a sucker punch first!" KA-POW!

I mean, come on -- fair is fair. If you or anyone else on the Left wants me (or others) to denounce over-the-top ravings of a Rush Limbaugh or whoever, then the Left has to likewise admit to (as I showed with my clip) that the frothing at the mouth ravings of people like Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow, etc, are EQUALLY nutty.

In fact, since we're on the topic of simply spreading hate or fear, allow me to present Liberal radio and TV host Ed Schultz on MSNBC just tonight, as he discusses Sarah Palin's speech at the Tea Party Convention with Bob Shrum, Democratic strategist and perpetual party hack, who decided NOT to discuss her speech on intellectual grounds, but chose instead to take a cheap personal shot at Palin by bitterly declaring: "She came across as a merchant of hate with an oh gosh smile." Wow, that's some real Ivy League intellectual analysis there, huh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3pre0VgX5s


So, I'll repeat what I said before: Yeah, you guys are right.
No on on the Left could ever be accused of peddling hate or fear themselves.
(insert mocking eye roll here)