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#151
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You're forgetting the pols who stuff their pockets, and make rules to enrich their already rich donors. 99% is way off base!! People get social security based on what they paid into the system, like a savings account. I can tell you from personal experience that more than 1% of my pay went to social security. Conse 'Pubs say I shouldn't receive those funds, because it would rob their children. They, however, have no problem with me paying into it, or I should say they never mention it. TAL |
#152
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Programs like Welfare, Medicare and other things are a way for people to justify their irresponsibility and only serves to burden everyone else with a huge cost.
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*More posts than Bionca* [QUOTE=God(from Futurama)]Right and wrong are just words; what matters is what you do... If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all. |
#153
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Do you honestly think that all the money that you paid for in Social Security is just sitting there waiting for you? No! It has already been spent by the Fed. otherwise you would be able to withdraw all you put in at once! Here's some quick math that I thought of that pisses me off... Your take-home pay is decreased more than 12% due to your "contributions" to the social security system. That money of course, like any other ponzi scheme, is immediately sent from the Treasury to the mailbox of some random old person. It seems like a logical system to politicians, but the reason it's called a ponzi scheme is because current investors, who have an effective basis of $0, are kept afloat by new investors. When the new investors dry up, the current investors' bases of $0 are fully realized, and the system collapses. Madoff went to jail for this EXACT same thing, and the very politicians who favor expanding and taxing even more the social security contributions of individuals, are the same ones who were lambasting Madoff for running the very same operation they are! Hypocrites! Idiots! The average American takes home a little over $40,000 per year. Without a Social Security tax, our incomes would be closer to $45,000. If we all used that extra $5,000 to invest in our Roth IRAs every year from our 20s onward, we could retire at 65-70 as MULTI-MILLIONAIRES. Instead... we give that $5,000 to the federal government, which, of course, immediately disappears. But when we reach age for withdrawal, the average American receives $1,153 per month from Social Security. $13,836 per year. Assuming we live a very liberally estimated 25 years from the day we withdrawal benefits, that is a total of $345,900 nominal dollars over 25 years. Annual cost of living adjustments are made to the benefits, but the real purchasing power of those checks will remain about equivalent to what $345,900 would buy today. On the flipside, those of us who opted to manage our own retirement, would wisely begin withdrawing (tax free, of course) funds from our Roth IRAs as soon as we hit 59.5 years old, ratably with the timing of the market at that time, and placing the withdrawals in safer investments like money markets, CDs, and low yield bonds. That way when we reach 65 or 70, or whatever age we decide we want to cruise around the world, we will have several hundred thousand dollars more than the social security folks. Oh, and the best part? We won't be paying income taxes on the adjusted principle of our withdrawals, the social security folks will be. That being said, is our method of retirement a little riskier than social security which is "backed by the full faith and credit of the US government?" Yes it is, but high risk, high reward. And it's worth it to me to have hundreds of thousands, possibly millions more disposable dollars at retirement. Some people may not be willing to go through with that, and may opt for something safe and low yield like social security, and that's fine. If we want to give them that option (rather than just allow individuals to invest that same money in equally safe investments via the private sector...), they can have that opportunity, but my gripe is, why do we all have to be forced to pay for it!? It all boils down to my gripe with the public option. If we want to be little leftists and have a public option, OK, but why will we all be forced to pay for it!?
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*More posts than Bionca* [QUOTE=God(from Futurama)]Right and wrong are just words; what matters is what you do... If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all. Last edited by The Conquistador; 01-30-2010 at 11:12 PM. |
#154
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It's also my point about exclusions being more important than people, because you can eliminate all but a handful of PERFECT people. Jesus drank wine to excess, he'd be excluded by most Conse 'Pubs. You're right the idea is to exclude most people, and the balance would not get covered: no program, no coverage!! ZERO covered!! Tough luck, too bad!! TAL |
#155
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Is that really beneficial for anyone?
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*More posts than Bionca* [QUOTE=God(from Futurama)]Right and wrong are just words; what matters is what you do... If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all. Last edited by The Conquistador; 01-30-2010 at 11:33 PM. |
#156
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You take away social security and medicare and you will have a third of America in prisons or hospitals. Run over by the American Dream.
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#157
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As usual, you cannot come up with a reasoned and coherent response. At least Tal can, which is why I am talking to him and not you.
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*More posts than Bionca* [QUOTE=God(from Futurama)]Right and wrong are just words; what matters is what you do... If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all. |
#158
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If 12% of my pay goes to SS, how do 99% of my deductions go to deadbeats? People are imperfect, have different intellectual abilities, and the world is not a fair place. If the world were fair, your points would have greater weight. You've put a lot of thought and numbers into your view, but it's a theory that won't work with humans. You basically want to force people to live YOUR way, as opposed to YOU having to overpay by a nickel, while the fat cats will raise prices with their competitors to rob YOU blind. One way or the other it's going to come out of your pocket, and there isn't a whole lot you can do about it. TAL |
#159
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The % is irrelevant, because no human system has EVER worked. The Swedes had the best one, which cost a lot to pay into, but had super benefits. All the people had to do was do the right thing, but some wanted to game the system, which destroyed it. It was the healthy and educated that broke it, and not the deadbeats. Wall Streeters took way more than the deadbeats to bring the global economy to its knees. TAL |
#160
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__________________
*More posts than Bionca* [QUOTE=God(from Futurama)]Right and wrong are just words; what matters is what you do... If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all. |
#161
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People need to be aware of that and need to stop being so content and complacent. There is a checks and balances system in place but most are too lazy to use it. That kind of shit needs to stop or we will just keep getting pushed into submission. If you don't draw the line at something, then where will it stop? I am not saying that banks and corporations are innocent in this. I am saying giving the Gov. unnecessary control over major things in our lives is bad and that we should not be even thinking of that course of action. People need to be more self-sufficient and independent instead of relying on others to do things for them.
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*More posts than Bionca* [QUOTE=God(from Futurama)]Right and wrong are just words; what matters is what you do... If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all. |
#162
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ANGRY: I was referring to your system, while half the population has no clue what's going on. Human beings are nowhere near a good system. We went from barbarian to civil, the next step is to humane, and your system is for the now--not the tomorrow when a system will have some teeth. TAL |
#163
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Letting people make decisions is far more humane and alot less condescending than telling people that you know what is best for them. Meritocracy > kleptocracy
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*More posts than Bionca* [QUOTE=God(from Futurama)]Right and wrong are just words; what matters is what you do... If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all. |
#164
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ANGRY: What I'm saying is that the best system is a combination, and not one or the other. Not the left or right edges but in the middle. TAL |
#165
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Hmmm, maybe the system that WORKS is the best one! How about Monoco? No taxes at all. Sweden with 50% tax was the CLEANEST place on Earth. Amsterdam? Haiti?
You need a changing system that conforms to the strengths and weaknesses of the USA. You need a smart dynamic leader with lots of cash to spend. Palin looked like a genius when she had oil money taxes. Money makes everything easy. Ask George Bush. Finding a fair system that taxes fairly and distributes fairly is pretty tough. Ask Obama. |
#166
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The biggest freedom problems of the USA are medial/press freedom and censorship, probably you don?t hear much about it that because of it. Btw: 1. Your police and agencies are the biggest (not commercial) information collectors and not the UK. 2. The were not kicked out after squatters took control of it, they were shut out by squatters. The situation was not solved well, but the squatters had to move. 3. Self defence is not illegal in the UK. Don?t belief an article that reports over a pissed off person that tries to quote a statement from a police officer. 4. Personal saying that politics, government or laws sucks does not lower or increase freedom. 5. I think, at stupid senseless laws the USA is on top. 6. One board game! As you were allowed to buy and sell everything from/to everyone you want. 7. Talking! Even stupid nominations are discussed, but they are free too suggesting it. Last edited by Tread; 01-31-2010 at 01:12 PM. |
#167
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All this is found in the Constitution but people just tend to ignore it and continue through a listless, worry-free life. So now we are looking at something akin to The Fall of Rome because of complacency. Even our comfort has come at a price and now we are paying for it.
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*More posts than Bionca* [QUOTE=God(from Futurama)]Right and wrong are just words; what matters is what you do... If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all. |
#168
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__________________
*More posts than Bionca* [QUOTE=God(from Futurama)]Right and wrong are just words; what matters is what you do... If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all. |
#169
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There's no perfect society or perfect man under the sun. ANY society that everyone abides by is as good as it gets. This is Obama's hurdle. He's got 40% of the country hopped up on Teaparty Kool-aid. Obama took no-one's job. Bush did. The only way to create jobs is the fucked up stimulus bill, set to flower just before the November elections, I would think. Give the baggers jobs and they'll disappear. A fucked up solution for a fucked up situation.
Obama is my man. I could not dream up a better President. Almost ANY system that has the support of the people will work. You can't say the system is right and the people are wrong, even if that's the truth. Find some religion. Give unto Caesar. |
#170
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Why can't I say that some things are right and some things are wrong even if I am correct? Because it might hurt someone's feelings?
__________________
*More posts than Bionca* [QUOTE=God(from Futurama)]Right and wrong are just words; what matters is what you do... If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all. |
#171
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The stimulus bill was like injecting massive amounts of morphine into an already sedated severely injured patient.
No, it was like injecting massive amounts of money into a monthly credit card bill that is 10 times bigger than your salary. It did more harm than good. Death of the patient is good? Our economy was showing signs of recovering before the stimulus bill was passed HA HA HA HA HA!!! the fact of the matter is that Obama spent money that we don't have. BULLETIN!!!! Why can't I say that some things are right and some things are wrong even if I am correct? Because it might hurt someone's feelings? Because when you are President you don't have the luxury of telling people in jail that they're wrong. You don't have the luxury of telling sick people they should have taken better care of themselves. You can't tell Oil Companies that making obscene amounts of money is wrong. As individuals, we can say anything. This stopped being the Coakley-Brown thread a couple of pages ago. A candidate with your views would be laughed off the podium! OF COURSE Abortion is wrong! So is bombing abortion clinics. This seems to be the 50/50 issue. Pro-choice or Pro-life. Pick a side and half the people will love you, half will hate you. Don't pick a side and all the people will stop listening to you. This thread is POLITICS. UNITED STATES POLITICS. not Biker politics, or surfer politics, or nazi politics, or YOUR politics. The only opinion of yours that counts is whether teabaggers and right-wing crackpots will re-enter the Republican Party. |
#172
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Hyperinflation. That's what's going to happen. Your blatant and willful disregards for facts is showing. Also, I am quite aware that this thread is about politics and until you tell someone that they are doing wrong, they will just continue on in their blissful ignorance. Babying and sheltering people does not benefit them. Quote:
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*More posts than Bionca* [QUOTE=God(from Futurama)]Right and wrong are just words; what matters is what you do... If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all. Last edited by The Conquistador; 01-31-2010 at 04:36 PM. |
#173
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The fact that Rush and Glenn and you and Tracy denounce Bush NOW doesn't make you right, it makes you wrong. He was YOUR guy, YOU voted for him. If you didn't vote, then you have no say in the American Political System. Your choice is a matter of record. I asked the party of NO to write a check for 2000-2008. They said NO! Can you believe that shit??!!! Here is the fact. In the World of US Politics, you are a right wing nutjob. You stand beside your right wing nutjob principles, I get it. You betcha. Look up Right Wing in the Dictionary. Look up Nutjob. Put them together. That's you. Start to finish. Case closed. Story told. You are a NOUN, my friend. |
#174
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I am not right-wing; I am independent. A conservative libertarian. I am someone who cares about my future and am absolutely pissed off over the the attitudes of our elected public servants. Politics is all about the art of bullshitting and being the best bullshitter on the block. Now what happens when the best bullshitters find out that they cannot bullshit their way through anymore of their problems; that people are seeing through the crap that they are spouting? Huh? If you honestly think that this whole thing is about Democrat vs. Republican, you really need to turn off the TV and take a look around. It is about reckless actions, alarming Gov. growth and usurpations of our liberties. Guess what? I did look in the dictionary and we are BOTH nouns! Take a gander at this one! I found a definition that perfectly suits you as well! Main Entry: tool Pronunciation: \ˈt?l\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Old English tōl; akin to Old English tawian to prepare for use — more at taw Date: before 12th century 1 a : a handheld device that aids in accomplishing a task b (1) : the cutting or shaping part in a machine or machine tool (2) : a machine for shaping metal : machine tool 2 a : something (as an instrument or apparatus) used in performing an operation or necessary in the practice of a vocation or profession <a scholar's books are his tools> b : an element of a computer program (as a graphics application) that activates and controls a particular function <a drawing tool> c : a means to an end <a book's cover can be a marketing tool> d often vulgar : penis 3 : one that is used or manipulated by another 4 plural : natural ability <has all the tools to be a great pitcher>
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*More posts than Bionca* [QUOTE=God(from Futurama)]Right and wrong are just words; what matters is what you do... If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all. Last edited by The Conquistador; 01-31-2010 at 08:11 PM. |
#175
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I thought it was
2 D. |
#176
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A literary way to call someone a "dick"? Nah, I won't stoop to name-calling.
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*More posts than Bionca* [QUOTE=God(from Futurama)]Right and wrong are just words; what matters is what you do... If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all. |
#177
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"Nah, I won't stoop to name-calling" said the right wing nutjob.
HA HA! So, you could vote last election, right? Who did you vote for? THRILL ME!! Take all the time you need, All Seeing One, it's an easy question. |
#178
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And no, I was not name-calling; I merely insinuated something...
__________________
*More posts than Bionca* [QUOTE=God(from Futurama)]Right and wrong are just words; what matters is what you do... If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all. |
#179
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Time to go potty?
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"Man's capacity for justice makes democracy possible; but man's inclination to injustice makes democracy necessary." R.N. |
#180
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Maybe. Eating prunes and typing generally do not go together.
Scratch that. Prunes and heavy lifting do not go together...
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*More posts than Bionca* [QUOTE=God(from Futurama)]Right and wrong are just words; what matters is what you do... If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all. |
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