Line of progression / when is a guy a gurl?

[franalexes]

When is guy a gurl?
If a guy wears his girlfriends panties, is he a CD, cross dresser?
If a guy wears girl clothes, is he a CD?
If a guy wears girl clothes for the sexual fun of it, even if he stays in the closet, is he a CD? I'd say yes.
If a guy wears girl clothes and does so in public, is he a CD? Yes, most deffinately.
If a CD wears girl clothes all the time and lives like a girl is he then a TV? ( transvestite) I'd have to say that he is.
If a TV lives as a girl, looks like a girl, ( and some are very pretty) and decides to have breast implants, does that make him a TS?
( Can a pre-op' TS be flat chested and still be a girl?)
( TV with breasts vs: a TS flat chested; is there a difference?)
Now if a guy, dresses as a girl, full time, lives like a girl full time, has breast implants, and now even has learned to think like a girl; is he then a TS ?
Now understand that we TS girls know that we were born already wired as girls.

Is there anyone on this forum that even dares to argue that a TS is not a girl? I think not. Now I myself have no problem spelling that g-u-r-l. just to establish that things were not the same from the beginning.
So now we have another question. At what point is a guy a girl?
Or is there even a single point? There are many CD's that have a much better disposition and emotional wiring than a lot of self proclaimed "hot-stuff" girls.
I've talked myself into a full circle on this. Yet it defies all sound reasoning.

Do we put labels on people or do we let people asign their own label?

[smc]

Originally Posted by franalexes

... Do we put labels on people or do we let people asign their own label?

I think what I've quoted is the only truly important question, and the answer is easy:

SELF-DETERMINATION all the way!

[tslust]

Originally Posted by franalexes

Do we put labels on people or do we let people asign their own label?

That's a great question. Personally, I choose to Identify myself as a transvestite/crossdresser (I don't really make a distinction between the two). Hopefully someday I'll be able to live 24/7 as a gurl (or is that girl).

Originally Posted by franalexes

When is guy a gurl?
If a guy wears his girlfriends panties, is he a CD, cross dresser?
If a guy wears girl clothes, is he a CD?
If a guy wears girl clothes for the sexual fun of it, even if he stays in the closet, is he a CD? I'd say yes.
If a guy wears girl clothes and does so in public, is he a CD? Yes, most deffinately.
If a CD wears girl clothes all the time and lives like a girl is he then a TV? ( transvestite) I'd have to say that he is.
If a TV lives as a girl, looks like a girl, ( and some are very pretty) and decides to have breast implants, does that make him a TS?
( Can a pre-op' TS be flat chested and still be a girl?)
( TV with breasts vs: a TS flat chested; is there a difference?)
Now if a guy, dresses as a girl, full time, lives like a girl full time, has breast implants, and now even has learned to think like a girl; is he then a TS ?
Now understand that we TS girls know that we were born already wired as girls.

Is there anyone on this forum that even dares to argue that a TS is not a girl? I think not. Now I myself have no problem spelling that g-u-r-l. just to establish that things were not the same from the beginning.
So now we have another question. At what point is a guy a girl?
Or is there even a single point? There are many CD's that have a much better disposition and emotional wiring than a lot of self proclaimed "hot-stuff" girls.
I've talked myself into a full circle on this. Yet it defies all sound reasoning.

Do we put labels on people or do we let people asign their own label?

Very interesting questions Fran. I am no "gurl", I'm a girl, and always have been. I mean I had to learn to pretend to be a guy, having been so bullied for either being to girly or gay through out school. It wasn't till HS that most of that stopped, though not completely. Because my femininity kept showing through on some levels.
I've also always hated my give first and middle names, and also hated the effects testosterone had on my body. So there for I am definitely a transsexual woman.

Now I do know of one cd who did transition from living as a man to living as a woman, but with out the aid of hormones. Do I still consider her a girl? Yes, yes I do. But only because that's how she chooses to identify.

I also don't consider anybody how only dresses part time to be anything other than the gender they were born as. Because they still must like being their born gender or they'd transition.

These are just my thoughts on the matter, and hope they do not offend anyone.

[JodieTs]

Originally Posted by franalexes

So now we have another question. At what point is a guy a girl?
Or is there even a single point? There are many CD's that have a much better disposition and emotional wiring than a lot of self proclaimed "hot-stuff" girls.
I've talked myself into a full circle on this. Yet it defies all sound reasoning.

Yep I've thought about the same.
When is a person a transsexual on the path to woman?

I can only look at things from a personal perspective.
At what point did I become a transsexual woman?
Was it the point where I was formally diagnosed as such? What about 5 minutes prior to this diagnosis, was I not a transsexual woman then?
When diagnosed, did I miraculously become a Ts, like the flick of a switch?
No, can't be that.

Or, previously,
When I developed breasts & appropriate shape? But those are physical changes. Being Ts is an internal alignment.
If you give a cissexual (ie.non-ts) man those same hormones, he will develop the same female features, but still be a man, inside.
So No, can't be that.

Or, previously,
When I decided to start hormone treatment? But that was a conscious decision, & you can't one day "decide" to be a Ts.
So no, can't be that.

Or, previously,
When I grew my hair, & saw staring out the mirror, the real me, I always felt inside. It was there, before I grew my hair.
So no, can't be that.

Or, previously:
when I started to live as a woman,
or first shaved my legs,
or put on makeup the first time & got the shock of seeing the "inside me" staring back out of the mirror,
or the first time I had a need, a longing, to dress female, the sexual buzz, combined with the feeling of dressing like that... was just "right"

Or, previously, when I recognized just how different, how wrong I was inside & decided not to marry & have children, That would be a deceit too far. But still not knowing what I really was.

Or always feeling very different from other boys but not knowing why?
The fear of being a fake, hiding to fit in. Terrified & convinced that others could see "the inside me" That I was different.
---This last thought goes back to my earliest memories, Two or three years old.

This is something you have inside always, like from the egg. How long, if ever, before you recognize or act upon it.
Circumstances.
Some can never take a first step.
Does that make them any less a transsexual woman than me?

[Florian]

Maybe we could start a rating system-
0 is a man who is a man.
1 is a man who occasionally wears women's clothes as a turn-on
2 is a man who wears women's clothes in special TV/TS clubs
3 is a man/woman who wears women's clothes all the time - it's already getting difficult to use gender-specific nomenclature
etc etc up to
10 where the SRS/GRS/sex-change op. has taken place, and the result is 100% woman.

The problem as I see it is that sexuality is in the brain, not between the legs, so maybe we need to drop guy/girl and man/woman, as Franalexes says:

"Now understand that we TS girls know that we were born already wired as girls."

But what about those on this forum who get a thrill from a pre-op but not a post-op?
Hasn't anybody written a thesis on this?

[smc]

Originally Posted by Florian

Maybe we could start a rating system-
0 is a man who is a man.
1 is a man who occasionally wears women's clothes as a turn-on
2 is a man who wears women's clothes in special TV/TS clubs
3 is a man/woman who wears women's clothes all the time - it's already getting difficult to use gender-specific nomenclature
etc etc up to
10 where the SRS/GRS/sex-change op. has taken place, and the result is 100% woman. ...

With all due respect, this is one of the worst ideas I've seen on this site. With all the discussion about how bad labels are, and -- most important -- that people should have the absolute, unequivocal right to self-identity of gender, putting an arbitrary number chosen by someone else into the equation seems, well, beyond disrespectful.