Feared or Respected?

[ila]

Originally Posted by johndowe

.....And that there were lots of things that happened that weren't recorded and or were destroyed, so it is hard to proove anything beyond a resonable doubt, but if everybody would have been more tolerent hence more respectful, ww2 very probably would never have happened.
JohnDowe.

You have a point there, John. The seeds of tolerance and respect would have had to have been planted a long time before then, though.

Here are a few suggested books on the conditions of pre-war Germany:

“Germany 1918-1939” by John Kerr

“Economic Crisis and French Foreign Policy” by Haim Shamir

“The Treaty of Versailles: a reassessment after 75 years” by Manfred Franz Boemeke, Gerald D. Feldman, Elisabeth Gläser

“The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money” by John Maynard Keynes

“Wilsonianism: Woodrow Wilson and his legacy in American foreign relations” by Lloyd E. Ambrosius

[johndowe]

Originally Posted by ila

You have a point there, John. The seeds of tolerance and respect would have had to have been planted a long time before then, though.

Hi there.

You have a point there too.


JohnDowe.

[johndowe]

Originally Posted by aw9725

Here are a few suggested books on the conditions of pre-war Germany:

"Germany 1918-1939" by John Kerr

"Economic Crisis and French Foreign Policy" by Haim Shamir

"The Treaty of Versailles: a reassessment after 75 years" by Manfred Franz Boemeke, Gerald D. Feldman, Elisabeth Gläser

"The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money" by John Maynard Keynes

"Wilsonianism: Woodrow Wilson and his legacy in American foreign relations" by Lloyd E. Ambrosius

Hi there.

Thank you for the effort, but i prefer lighter reading, or tech manuals, but again the jesture is appresiated.

JohnDowe.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

The origin of respect and out need for it.

Along time ago, and NOT in a galaxy far far away, when we were all living in small tribes, the need for respect was more important than food and water, for the individual, because since we were nomadic, if one of the tribemembers was disrespected by his fellow tribesmen, he could and possibly would be abbandoned by the tribe and left to fend for himself, his odds of survival would be severely diminished, and his chance of procreating would be nil, but it would also probably be a good thing since he was dis-respected, and probably deserved the dis-respect, so respect was essential to our survival, back then.

Now that we have "evolved" respect is not as crucial to our survival as it once was, but it is important in ALL social interactings, some one that isn't respected will not succed in business, will not find a mate, or freidns, and will be an outcast, those who are respected will enjoy all those things.

But that's not the whole story is it?

Some people that are dis-respected and dis-respectful can and do live comfortably in our society, because there are things that can over shadow the respect or dis-respect we feel about someone, one thing is fear, another is money, and they can and do motivate people to do and act differently towards those people, you can't buy love or respect but you CAN buy things and hire people to hang around you and make them seem that thery like and respect you and you may get a bit of respect for the appearance of respect to blend in, but beeing respectful would be much easier.

JohnDowe.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

Wolves are a social species, like we are or more precicely we were, and in a social gathering there are rules, there is a leader and there are subordinates, there are males and females, both have a leader and both have their own tasks and some shared tasks, if there is a leader and a rival for the position arises, the whole pack is affected and the conflict must be resolved, the leader and the rival have to have it out and only one can be the leader, the winnwer is the new leader, the loser can be forgiven or chased from the pack, but it is the leader's decision and none of the other wolves will interfeer with it.

At first glance it may not seem a good idea to chase away an obviously strong and probably good hunter from the pack, but it isn't his strength or his hunting capabilities that are in question, but his compliance to the leader, for the pack to function as a unit there has to be unity, one leader unquestionned and obeyed, blinly, if there is discention in the ranks, it is detrimental to all the members of the pack, a deer that would have been caught, could have escaped becaude of this discention and the whole pack would go hungry for a day, so respect of the leader is more importand than individual prowess, the same is true for the females, only the leader of the pack mates and only with the dominant female, they also have their roles to play, they tend to the young and defend the camp while the males hunt, any one of the pack would give their lives for the pack, for without the pack they would not survive.

This is true of all social animals, there are variants but the underlying principle remains the same, but only for small packs of less than say 50 members beyond that the system is non responsive and smaller groups form and it becomes harder for the whole group to function as a unit, a family structure implements itself, and the pack becomes a tribe, a center point to operate from but not directly tied to the others, it is no longer a dictatorship but a cooperative of sorts, where the whole tribe will defend itself from enemies, but may very well hunt by thenselves and share in the results of the hiunt with the rest of the tribe in exchange for having their young tended and kept safe, but in order for that system to work there has to be a leader that all the families will raly behind in times of crisis, and that is why respect is so important to them, the leader is the one that is most respected and that has proven himself a worthy member of the tribe, and those who are not respected are viewed as useless and eventually excluded from the tribe entirely and end up dead before their time.

There are few animals that live in a tribal atructure, but we use it extensively and we use it in a GRAND scale with cities of millions of inhabitants, where once respect was given an recieved without question, now giving it is a problem, where selfishness was rooted out for the greater good, selfishness is now a way of life, where lazyness was a sin, now it is no only tolerated but accepted, and for what, so that some may gain power over others and make money, respect is as important now as it was then, so why not play the game properly? Give respect to get it, it is that simple and them you have to keep beeing respectful to earn it, is that so hard? for a normal person, no, but for the lazy and the selfish it is and, over time the dis-respect that they generate for themselves is extended to others of their area, tensions arise, crime increases, attacks become more common, sounds femiliar?

Because of some less desirable people who openly dis-respect themselves beeing lazy and selfish, are accepted and protected by some well meaning but midguided people, it causes resentments, ill feelings and miss understandings between the different groups and with time the problems escalate and those groups distance themselves from eachother, until there are well tended nice looking areas and there are slums, those who were instrumental in creating those slums deserve to live there, but unfortunately, it is their children that end up living there and they are dis-respected because they live there and theat their parents were lazy and selfish, and weather or not they themselves are lazy or selfish, and they have great difficulty escaping the slums, and when the do get out their attitude betrays them and they are treated as second class citizens and all because of the lack of self-respect of their forefathers, and the dis-respect was forced on to them.

Solving the problem is not that hard in theory, but has proven to be much harder in practice, in theory, all one would have to do would be to start respecting himself and others and problem solved, ok, but there isn't just one person that is in this problematic sitution, there are millions and some are comfortable living there and make money because of the slums beeing what they are, and are wiling to go to great lengths to keep things as they are, and from both sides of the fence, so the problem persists because the will to change of the inhabitants of the slums is weak and unorganised and the ones that want to keep things as they are, are better organised, but if the inhabitants of the slums would learn the simple rules of respect and start applying them properly the ones that want to keep the slums as they are would not be able to do so and a major urban problem would be almost solved.

Who knew respect and the lack of it, could have such far reaching consequences.

JohnDowe.

[ila]

Originally Posted by aw9725

Note: ila, if this site is not appropriate or "off topic" you can delete it, I won't be offended.

The link is not what I expected. I won't spoil the surprise though, and reveal what happens when one clicks on the link.

[Jenae LaTorque]

What link?

[ila]

Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorque

What link?

The post has been deleted by the OP. That's too bad as I thought that it was a good post.

We will try this again. Hope it injects some humor into this thread. FYI my own score was "39"... Good luck!

http://howmanyfiveyearoldscouldyoutakeinafight.com

Caution: there is a "pop up" for a dating service at the end of the quiz that is easily ignored.

[Jenae LaTorque]

But I could handle 31 old people. Some fun things there. I now know I am a 56% geek and scored 43% on eating my buddies.

P.S. I looked for the How Many Dwarfs Could You Take On quiz. But I couldn't find it. A while back I was in a car accident with a dwarf in a VW. He came up to me and said, "I'm not happy!" I couldn't resist it. I said, "So which one are you? ...Grumpy?..... Doc? .." And the fight was on.

I scored 70% on the "Geek" test and 100% on the "Human Shield" test. Not sure that's a *good* thing! LOL!

I ran the "cuss-o-meter" test on my blog and found it got a rating of "0%"!

That actually dosen't surprise me in that it is associated with my university and students read it. I try to keep it "clean." Also it is mostly a discussion of technology and effects on society--nothing really risque.

I also took the "Caffine" test and found I am a "productive worker." Guess I haven't had enough coffee yet! Still have exams to grade... LOL!

[SandraB]

Hi all, first post, been looking for a while but only membered up now.

Have something to say about wolves and respect, but have to research something first.

SandraB.

So now I know that I most likely taste like roasted tofu.

And I could take 23 five-years-old in a fight...

I love the internet so much!

Edit: But I'm only 42% Geek!

[SandraB]

Hi all, Sandra here.

About those wolves, they are social animals and their society is similar to how we were several thousands of years ago, but we have evolves a lot since then, the IQ of the smartest bread of dogs is about 30, while the average human's is at least 120, it doesn’t compare, but the need for leadership and respect of the leader was the same.

The leader had to be the smartest and the strongest as to be the most effective leader and breathing stock, and we call the leader the ALPHA wolf, but I believe that the ALPHA wolf as he is called, is the ALPHA wolf because he is the leader but he is the leader because he is an ALPHA wolf from birth and assumed leadership when he was ready, why is it that in a litter of 8 wolf puppies only 1 would challenge the leader of the pack and the other 2 or 3 males just follow whichever male is the leader?

Because he is an alpha male to begin with and as such it is in his genetic makeup to lead, his superior strength and tactical sense make him a natural choice for a leader and somehow he is aware of this and will challenge the current leader whom is probably also an alpha male, the strongest and keenest will win out and be the leader, nature wants no less than the best.

But we humans have evolved socially to live in big cities, with millions of people, the need for leaders is still there but, it is different, the leaders of today aren't chosen for their strength or tactical sense, today leaders of society are elected and the winner is the one that had the best campaign, not the smartest, not the wisest but the one with the most money, and we wonder why the world is in such turmoil? Also, often the one running in the election is just a figurehead, and the ones that sponsored his campaign are the ones that rule, scary.

We have evolved socially and physically, but we are still part of nature, weather or not we believe this, and we are still bound by its laws, and as such there are also human ALPHA males and females born all the time, but since our lifespan is longer and our tribes were bigger fewer alphas were required and were subsequently born, and they as alphas would be stronger and smarter than non alphas, to be better leaders, but in this society of ours, true leaders alphas are often not interested in politics because of the corruption and the stupidity of it, preferring to be local leaders helping on a smaller scale, and doing more good that way.

Alphas are not likely to be criminals, their leadership skills and strengths are usually coupled with a keen sense of right and wrong making them devote their lives to helping others and organizing help programs for those in need, they are the ones that never quit, that do the right thing irregardless of what others may think, and often don't even know they are natural leaders, because they are too busy leading and helping others, but they also have a private life, like everybody else.


All this to introduce an interesting story about respect and leadership.


There are parts that are a bit hard to explain but will become clearer as you read the story.


Not too long ago I was on employment insurance and was looking for work, but in the mean time I was helping in a local charity who helped black women, I am a white male, but they needed "muscles" and I was willing to help so the I was "hired" and as I was working I saw this cute black girl, she was about 25yo, and I was 40, but I got a different vibe from her than I usually get from others, and since I had to go to the office once in a while I knew I would meet her in the near future, that evening, the boss lady told me to come in earlier the next morning.

The next morning she was late, but I met the girl, I got her name, and I sat down since she was on the phone with one of her friends, then another woman that worked there who was about 30 came in and started to give her shit about some work related problem she had with her, she kept talking on the phone as if she wasn't even there, and looked at her and gave her a "stop making noise" look, the woman was even more annoyed with her but didn't do anything and went to her desk grumbling, and the boss arrived and I got my orders and left, because of that vibe I got from her and the way she handled her co-worker, I knew she was an alpha female.

I did my work and when I was finished I had to report to the boss, and she was the receptionist, so I put my hands on her desk and get a bit too close to her and I started to chat her up, I was intentionally making her feel a bit uncomfortable without being rude, then she did something that confirmed to me that she was indeed an alpha, she tried to establish dominance in a non verbal way, which I saw and let slide, as I went to talk to the boss, and left since my work for the day was done.

I was only working part time there and only went back a few days later, and when I was finished I had to see the boss, but again I intentionally got a bit too close to the receptionist for her to be comfortable, she was surprised since she had established dominance before, but she did it again and I let it slide again, and told the boss the job was done and left.

The next day I worked and the job was done, I went to the office and sat on the receptionist's desk kind of like her boyfriend would or someone who knew her well, and I spoke to her about the weather and other mundane things, I was again intentionally making her feel uncomfortable without being rude, again she tried to establish dominance but this time I blocked it, she knew something happened but she didn't know what, and I saw the boss telling her the job was done and I left.

The next time I worked there she had to come see me and I intercepted her before she got to my workspace and I told her I spoke to god and he told me she was a bad girl, she got it that I wasn't totally serious but still not totally joking either, she told me she had to talk to me and I told her that I’d be with her as soon as I finished what I was doing, when I got to my workstation, I got in her face and told her she had been bad she denied, but I insisted, and she pulled away but I stayed in her face and she again tried to establish dominance to prevent me from being able to continue my verbal assault upon her, which she didn't know how I knew she had been bad, but this time she did it with a vengeance and had she succeeded I would not have been able to be as mean to her as I had, but I blocked it again and reversed it but I wasn't kind, I gave no room to defend against any of my attacks, so I continued to get in her face in front of all the other workers, and all she did was to raise her open fists in a mock defense effectively giving up the fight, she knew I won, and looked down, the other workers were all staring, and I looked at then and they all went back to work, as if nothing happened, I never got any feedback from that incident and none of the other workers treated me any different than before.

Later that day, when I was going to tell the boss I was finished I saw the receptionist and she greeted me with a smile then with some open fists, then a smile, she didn't know how to deal with me, which was what I was expecting, I told the boss I was leaving and told the receptionist to get her things and follow me, which she did, I took her to an empty conference room and talked to her about why I had done what I did.

I told her she was an ALPHA female and as such she would easily establish dominance with almost everybody females, and males, the only ones that would give her trouble would be other alpha females, she would thump everybody else, she seemed confused as I had thumped her and so easily, I told her that as an alpha female the only one who would always trump her was an ALPHA male, and I told her the reason I was in her face was because she abused her privileges, she agreed and we left together, she had a boyfriend and they got married a few months later.

The establishing of dominance I spoke about is a psychic attack of sorts that anyone can do, theoretically, but to my experience only alphas actually do it, I have done it and I stopped because I deemed it unnecessary, but I still can do it and defend against it, and the receptionist did it instinctively while I did it consciously, to my knowledge psychology is still in the dark about all of this, this is what was I stated I was researching in my last post.

Alphas are rarely the bad guys; they are the community leaders, the ones who help others not the ones who victimize others.


If you don't agree or something, I don't really want to discuss this too much, and the ensueing discussion will likely be off subject anyway.

Sandra.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

Sandra, this is quite an interesting story, i don't know how to take it at the moment, but i was thinking about respect, fear and leadership but you kinda beat me to it.

JohnDowe.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

Sandra, after pondering and re-reading your story, i am still not convinced about your claim to be an alpha male, no, not because of your travestism but hey, i intimidated those 4 guys alone and by myself and i intimedated guys that touted themselves as un-intimidatable, so i could say that i am an alpha male, even if i can't psychickly establish dominance, it doesn't make it so.

And then you say you don't want to talk about it, i don't think so, you knew your story was at least a bit hard to believe, and you want us to take it at face value? No questions asked, no i think you OWE us a little bit more than that, if you didn't want to talk about it, why did you post it?

I AM awaiting your reply.


JohnDowe.

[Sigma]

It is better to be feared. Being rejected is embarrassing and some people will try to walk over you. Being feared can give you respect.

[johndowe]

Originally Posted by Sigma

It is better to be feared. Being rejected is embarrassing and some people will try to walk over you. Being feared can give you respect.

Hi there.

You are confusing fear and respect, I quote myself:


"If a guy gets picked on by others, and is beeing bullied, then he gets a gun.

Asked, he will say: I didn't get any respect before, now i do.

But is it respect?"



NO!

The guys that were on his case stopped picking on him because they fear getting shot, if he were to lose the gun and they knew it he would get beat up real bad as a retaliation to his getting the gun, so fear and respect are diametrally opposed, if you are feared you are not respected, if you are respected you are not feared, more prcicely, the more feared you are the less respected you are, the more respected you are the less you are feared.

Not being feared is in effect being liked, and when was that ever a bad thing?

I know when i started this thread that was the question but as i tought and researched it i realised i and most people didn't understand what respect was, and i changed my position and expectations about this thread.

Please read all the post in order and you will see what i mean, thank you.

As for rejections, all through your life you will sometimes be rejected, if others make fun of you, they are showing their pettyness and they are in effect did-respecting themselves, the importand thing in this situation is not what they do or say, but how you handle the rejection, if you handle it well, (respectfully) those same guys may very well be surprised at your reaction and end up respecting you for the mature way you handled yourself.

JohnDowe.

The term “alpha male” has typically been used in characterizing the behaviors of animals. As observed, in wild packs, there will develop a chain of dominance from the most powerful male to the “omega” or least powerful. Clearly the “alpha” gets preference in terms of mating and eating. So therefore survival and procreation are dependent on establishing “dominance.” The “alpha” must maintain his position and is constantly challenged by younger, even stronger, males. Eventually he is defeated and another “alpha” emerges. It is a “dog eat dog” world quite literally.

Humans however, at least I would like to think, are slightly more evolved than that. We have created social organizations, rules, laws, governments, and even religions to impart order on our society. One of the first uses of “alpha” to refer to human behavior was the term “alpha plusses” in Brave New World by Aldous Huxley. Since then, it has been common in popular culture to refer to someone in a position of leadership as an “alpha.”

It has been a very long time since I studied this stuff in grad school but I believe that leadership and power in modern society depend as much on “social” or “situational” factors as they do on personal characteristics. In my own field, higher education, respect is gained primarily through knowledge. In order to do what I do, one must first demonstrate that they “know something” (it’s a piece of paper called a “doctorate”--whether or not it really means anything--who knows--there are clearly people here who are as educated and probably smarter than I am). Once accepted, the individual must then be able to show that they can “contribute” to further acquisition of knowledge (it’s called “research and publication”) and also that they can impart that knowledge to others (it’s called “teaching”). One also must be seen as a “good colleague” and part of a “community of scholars.” If you pass the test you get tenure and promotion (only then can you become a complete asshole--sorry I couldn’t resist). I have read some of the other posts on “respect” and “alpha” behavior here and I will have to say I have never encountered anything quite like it in my own life or career. I am quite sure that some of the “dominance” and “territorial” behavior described goes on--I just have been fortunate enough to have not seen it. We DO have the occasional fight over content areas or budgets but we don’t go around “in each others face.” We are much more subtle…

For myself, I never have thought in terms of whether or not *I* am an “alpha” male. After reading this thread, I started thinking about it… certainly I have many of the “traits.” I am tall (6’4” - or very close, you know you can't trust men to measure anything themselves), a former college football player (middle linebacker), still pretty fit at 39, have a strong speaking voice, and have assumed many positions of leadership from way back in high-school where I was our team’s defensive captain to more recently where I chaired my university’s technology committee for two years. When I get dressed up in a suit and tie (rarely--thank God), I probably look pretty scary. LOL! As for “fear,” I would never want to have my students or colleagues or friends or my lover “fear” me. In academia it would be counterproductive--we want to encourage free and open discussion and inquiry. Besides, whoever went around acting like too much like a “bully” or played too many “intimidation games” with other faculty or students would (forgive my “unacademic” choice of words) have their ass thrown out on the street. Forget tenure. Very early in my career (when I was like 23 or 24 and working on my Master's), there was a guy like that who acted like a "hard ass" and tried to intimidate (I personally think he was "scared shitless" of speaking in front of such a large group and was worried that the students wouldn't "respect" him... they didn't.) who they had hired to teach a couple of classes--he didn’t make it through the semester and I took over for him.

Do I command “respect” in my own personal and professional life? Well, so far I’d have to say “Yes.” I was granted tenure and am on track to be promoted to Full Professor next year. I am published and have even written a couple of books (gathering dust somewhere no doubt). I keep a blog that has a pretty wide readership--last summer I wrote about how the traffic after Michael Jackson’s death affected the Internet. A local TV station picked it up and CNN mentioned it (but not me by name). This semester at least, every Monday and Wednesday I have to command the attention and respect of approximately 150 18-20 year olds in my 8:00 lecture. As far as “respect” on the street--well I was born and raised in Detroit south of 8 mile. I think I could handle myself…

I didn’t intend to get back into this discussion or talk about myself so much (I’d much rather talk about Kelly Shore or music or things that go fast) but this thread and discussion of “respect” has taken on a personal twist. There has also been mention of "female" alpha types. Very interesting. I wanted to add that during my career, I have had several female “superiors” and have no issues with women in positions of power. I think if you were to ask most of us (in academia) about what determines “power” and “respect,” I think you would find that “knowledge,” “integrity,” “character,” “friendship,” and similar traits would be at the top of the list.

Finally, I’d like to share a couple of theories on leadership with you that might put the concept of a human "alpha male" in context. Homework if you will... Vroom proposed a “situational leadership” model where the leader is constrained entirely by events. There was also a Fiedler "contingency” model that I remember reading about somewhere that was similar. For what it's worth, I myself, rely on more of a “consensus” model. Blake also proposed a “managerial grid.” My Dad was an executive at GM in the 1960’s through the 80’s and probably used something like that. I’m sure his experience in “management” and “leadership” would be far different from mine! Through him I did an internship at GM. Corporate world: not for me!

Some very intriguing and even controversial issues have been raised in this thread. I do want to keep this discussion and all others on a friendly level. I have truly enjoyed being part of this forum as I have learned a great deal more about my own sexuality--as well as other things--I consider all of you friends and teachers in that I feel I have much to learn. Some of you who have shared your own experiences and challenges--you cannot imagine how much respect I have for you--and what you’ve taught me. One day, I may reveal where I teach and who I am. We have a LGBT organization on campus and I have thought about going there to talk to a counselor as I continue my own personal growth.

Take care...

[SandraB]

Originally Posted by johndowe

Hi there.

Sandra, after pondering and re-reading your story, i am still not convinced about your claim to be an alpha male, no, not because of your travestism but hey, i intimidated those 4 guys alone and by myself and i intimedated guys that touted themselves as un-intimidatable, so i could say that i am an alpha male, even if i can't psychickly establish dominance, it doesn't make it so.

And then you say you don't want to talk about it, i don't think so, you knew your story was at least a bit hard to believe, and you want us to take it at face value? No questions asked, no i think you OWE us a little bit more than that, if you didn't want to talk about it, why did you post it?

I AM awaiting your reply.

JohnDowe.

Hi all.

When i said i didn't want to talk about it too much, i meant that i can't come here very often, that's all.

And the reason i joinned and posted was because of what i saw.

And what was that you say?

I read many if not most of your posts John, or Peter, and as far as i am conserned you ARE an ALPHA male, you speak your mind, and you defend yourself and others, you started theads to help others that are in a different situation you are in, sometimes when you post you seem agressive even if you don't mean to, it is your nature to be outspoken, and some don't understand and label you as harsh or a "pompous ass" because of it, and as i noticed you don't realy care about labels anyway all ALPHA male caracteristics.

Also, i think AW9725, Andy, could also be an ALPHA male, but i'm not realy sure, i will follow your posts and see...

Sandra.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

Hey, I'M an ALPHA MALE, YAY!

Ok, no more jokes, but what does it change in my life anyway?

But i suppose the question should be what should i do with that information?

Well, the best thing to do with it is for me to take note of it and go on with my life as if nothing happened.


JohnDowe.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

Respect in the workplace.

The workplace is a complex place and it follows rigid rules, and those who are in positions of power don't always belong there, same as politics, if you WANT to be in power, it doesn't mean you belong there, and in fact many who are do not deserve or belong there, also many people confuse authority and respect, if they are not good bosses the employees may respect the position but not the man holding the position, they do what they are told because they are paid to do the work, these bad bosses often mis-use their "authority" and confuse the fear of dismissal as respect which it obviously isn't, these individuals strive for those positions of power because they crave acceptance and respect that thy never got from their parents or freinds etc. and they invariably confuse fear of dismissal with respect and they behave like tirants, to get the respect they never got in their youth and of course they fail, and i the end they always feel an emptyness that they canot fill, because they were dis-respected in the most importand parts of their lives, their youth, and they have all these delusions about power and respect, and until these selusions are dispelled, they will never be "healed" and will continue to be tirants, and hated by their subordinates.

There are also those who do not seek power but when they get into positions of power, they do not handle it well, their co workers will often say: "He was a good guy before, but now he's such an asshole." These guys also have unresolved issues and try to work them out in their new position of power, to all their subordinates dismay, they want respect of course, but think they "deserve" more respect and their subordinates deserve less than before, but they are obviously wrong, but in their minds they are right and everybody else's opinion doesn't count.

The only way to get to these bad bosses is to get them to see the error of their ways, which is an arduous task in itself, and made harder by the fact that all employees are paid to work and not to psycho analyse eachother, but there are ways to deal with bad bosses, without getting fired.

I myself, have always got the respect from most of my bosses except my first ones, and i would never let them get away with being rude or disrespectful to me, and without getting into a shouting mach, sometimes a look can convey more "power" than a big arguement, and so can a well placed sarcastic responce.

These bad bosses are not realy to be hated, but pitied, because they are behaving that way because they have unresolved issues and they try to compensate through their work, and of course they won't since they aren't aware of their "problem" and you canot fix something that you don't know needs repair, and if someone does break through their shell, they may become less tyranic but old habbits die hard.


JohnDowe.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

On the flip side, there are good bosses, apparently not many but there are some, those who can handle the power and not abbuse it, who know when to crack the whip and whan to let things slide, but the boss isn't always the one at fault, he does have responsabilities and the work HAS to be done and on time, and not every employee is the perfect worker, and the boss HAS to use his power to get things done, but some employees try to get a free pass from a newly promoted boss, and force the new boss to flex some of that new authority, and as everybody (should) know, it takes 2 to tango, and things escalate, and power is addictive and can degenerate into an hostile working environement, the employee tried to dis-respecct the new boss, the new boss tried to correct the situation, but not everybody knows how to deal with all kinds of people, some are nice and easy to deal with, but there are some people who are well, assholes and do not respect anybody (including themselves) and will at least contribute to the creation of hostile working conditions, and again it boils down to respect, or the lack there of.

If the newly appointed boss is a newer employee, other older employees may take offence at the "new" guy being chosen over them, weather or not they deserved to be promoted, instead of respecting the bosses choice.

Because in general, we value ourselves more than we are really worth, and value others less than they are worth, and we may believe we would do a better job than the new boss, but if that were so and the boss knew it wouldn't he have promoted you instead?

All in all, one should respect all others and accept what they can't change and make the best of things instead of creating problems, because let's face it there are enough problematic things in this world without everybody creating more.


JohnDowe.

[alphanumeric]

Respect is better because you have earned it. Nobody but you can take it away.

Fear is derived from pain. Being feared means having to constantly prove your the top dog, and there's ALWAYS someone bigger and badder than you.

I've had people get in my face and disrespect me, but they're usually people whom I have no respect for anyways so their opinions of me and mine don't count.

That's how I see it anyways.

[johndowe]

Originally Posted by alphanumeric

Respect is better because you have earned it. Nobody but you can take it away.

Fear is derived from pain. Being feared means having to constantly prove your the top dog, and there's ALWAYS someone bigger and badder than you.

I've had people get in my face and disrespect me, but they're usually people whom I have no respect for anyways so their opinions of me and mine don't count.

That's how I see it anyways.

Hi there.

I agree, and as i stated in this thread, when you (generic) dis-respect someone (through fear or any other means) you dis-respect yourself.

JohnDowe.

[rhythmic delivery]

in most cases its better to be respected. but in some walks of life fear is much more usefull.

[new believer]

Originally Posted by rhythmic delivery

in most cases its better to be respected. but in some walks of life fear is much more usefull.

Being better is a matter of perspective. I woud prefer fear. One has to EARN respect. And 'EARN' ='s work. I work enough already. With fear, no one(hardly) messes with you or simply leaves you alone. And sometimes one needs to be alone. Just ask Greta Garbo. NB

[d332_dot_com]

applying George Bernard Shaw's quote "Hatred is the coward's revenge for being intimidated" I would pick fear. If fear leads to hatred and hatred - perhaps (and a big perhaps at that) may be a stone's throw away from love, then at least there's some emotion involved.

Respect is just respect. I guess it's like some college degree. The people who have it think nothing of it. The ones who don't consider, it the end all of intelligence. Whenever I have conversations with girls who harp on respect, I thin - rightfully or wrongfully - they must not get much of it.

Then when you see the people who are always trying to get ill-treated....it's always the ones who get respect and power throughout their typical day. Think subs in S/M.

Respect is just following a set of polite rules. But fear is a powerful force that drives you over the edge, and make you do things you otherwise won't do.

And I like that.

[johndowe]

Originally Posted by new believer

Being better is a matter of perspective. I woud prefer fear. One has to EARN respect. And 'EARN' ='s work. I work enough already. With fear, no one(hardly) messes with you or simply leaves you alone. And sometimes one needs to be alone. Just ask Greta Garbo. NB

Hi there.

As i said elsewhere, i'm back...

You say you have to work to earn respect?

Well, i suppose being cyvil to someone could possibly be considered work, or being polite and curtious too.

But having to intimidate someone or even beating them up to get the fear isn't work?

And then if the guy you beat up has freinds and they try to beat you up, if you run away, you lose the fear and by the way running is work in my book, and if you do fight them, well there will be a lot of people working to clean up that mess, irregardless of who won.

JohnDowe.

[johndowe]

Originally Posted by d332_dot_com

applying George Bernard Shaw's quote "Hatred is the coward's revenge for being intimidated" I would pick fear. If fear leads to hatred and hatred - perhaps (and a big perhaps at that) may be a stone's throw away from love, then at least there's some emotion involved.

Respect is just respect. I guess it's like some college degree. The people who have it think nothing of it. The ones who don't consider, it the end all of intelligence. Whenever I have conversations with girls who harp on respect, I thin - rightfully or wrongfully - they must not get much of it.

Then when you see the people who are always trying to get ill-treated....it's always the ones who get respect and power throughout their typical day. Think subs in S/M.

Respect is just following a set of polite rules. But fear is a powerful force that drives you over the edge, and make you do things you otherwise won't do.

And I like that.

Hi there.

Most people misunderstand the consept of respect and fear, while you are right fear can make you do things you wouldn't, but usually all the wrong things for the wrong reasons, and in the end it causes more problems for everybody involved, violence never solves anything, it will close a discussion but the argument is stopped but none of the opinions have changed, other than the winner thinks he won the arguement and the loser thinks the winner is even more of an asshole, so nothing was accomplished and someone got beat, that's not very smart, is it?

And respect is how you treat yourself and deal with others in every part of your life.

Another thing, you (genericly speaking) owe more respect to others than they owe you, once you understand this equasion (as it were) you will understand respect and will be able to interact with others more effectively.

More forthcoming.

JohnDowe.

[tunlov]

Respected.