There's really nothing honourable about dead American soldiers in an unjust war...

[hankhavelock]

But there is a lot of sadness to it! Insane tragedy brought on by an insane presidential administration who did all this for their own evil purposes.

The American soldiers who lost their lives in WW2 will always be remembered for taking part in a conflict that had immense consequenses - their lives were part of securing freedom against a tyrannic system for the entire world. Under the leadership of a few good men! That is America at its best. That is the America that will NEVER be forgotten in Europe.

But young American men and women being sacrified in an idiotic war that never should have been inititated lacks honour and only holds evil tragedy.

This is a war crime beyond reasoning. And it's not least a war crime brought on by an American president on his own people. A president who will never be held responsible for his evil doings simply because America has lost its course.

It's sad - but that's why the death of your soldiers is now not at all honourable. America lost its course - and your young men and women pay the price, not the responsible politicians. They pay a very dear and completely unfair price. They die, while Geo is grilling at home at his farm, ignorant of his wrong-doings...

I pray and believe Barack can bring back sanity to American policy and that we can stop seeing American casualties every day. This is SO horrible. America doesn't deserve this!

I simply don't understand how you good people could re-elect Geo Bush... are you happy now? Does it make you feel "full of American patriotic honour"?

I'll never understand the Republicans in their intensity... but I do remember the last, respectable Republican, Ronald Reagan, who probably screwed up American internal policy, but who stopped the cold war, because it was his passion and because he was a good man. Unfortunately, he also paved the way for the Bushes (and I'm certain not to his liking), and so be it. There's certainly foreign policy wise much more similarity between Barack and Reagan than between so many others.

Let's hope Barack can stop all this war mongering soon, so we don't have to hear about "honourable" American casualties any more. It sickens me.

I love Americans... especially when they are alive!

H

[hankhavelock]

The reason I write this is because of an insane editorial on CNN with the speed-talking John King, who freaked totally out in orgasmic pleasure over a tacky Google-stunt, where they have mapped all dead Americans in the Afghan and Iraqi wars.

He REALLY got excited and said: "Just look up your own home town and see if there's any one there..." (meaning killed Americans...)

Talking about distastefulness... I actually respected CNN... this should have been on FOX...

I found it absolutely ridiculous and utterly respectless. I believed CNN was somewhat above this kind of socalled journalism. It made me feel sick.

H

[CreativeMind]

Hank, first of all, I couldn't possibly DISAGREE with your first post MORE. In my opinion, it's totally off-base. But I'll come back later and post a reply when I have more time. All in all, this seems to be less about Memorial Day, when we should be respectfully honoring those who gave their lives, and more about your continual anti-Bush hatred.

As to your second post here, before I run out for the day, you have the entire purpose for this web site wrong. Memorial Day is SUPPOSED to be about remembering those who served their country and who gave their lives for a greater good. And sadly, often too many people forget the stories that go along with those sacrifices. As a result, when something comes along that allows people to put faces and names together with incidents or stories...and it likewise gives them a chance to reflect or it allows them to gather information that they might not have known before...that's actually a GOOD thing. Again, because the whole POINT to something like Memorial Day is to REMEMBER those sacrifices. And to even learn from them.

That said, below is a link to a CNN article talking about this web site that you seem to find so distasteful Hank. While I didn't see the CNN report, I'm sure that John King wasn't "orgasmic" over dead soldiers -- what he was most likely happy about was the fact that there was now a hi-tech way for people to gather information if they were interested in finding out more about someone they know or lost track of...those that made sacrifices from their home town, etc. Here are select quotes from the article to show you what I'm talking about, Hank...

(CNN) -- Each year on Memorial Day, tens of thousands of Americans visit Arlington National Cemetery just outside Washington to pay tribute to the men and women who died serving the United States. For people who are unable to make the trip, a new online memorial provides a unique way to honor those service members who have fallen in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The new Google Earth layer, called Map the Fallen, enables the user to pinpoint where, when, and how each service member died since the beginning of the war in Afghanistan. A line connects the service member's approximate location of death to his or her hometown.

As the article notes (and in defense of John King against your odd interpretation of his attitude, Hank)...

"To honor is to remember and to pay tribute," says CNN's John King, who debuted the layer Sunday on State of the Union with John King. "Some of us probably don't know that someone we knew long ago went off to Iraq or Afghanistan and didn't come home. A click on a hometown might bring a sad surprise. Or maybe we do know, but aren't sure how to put this loss into context, or find a fitting way to pay tribute. With this new layer, help is just a few clicks away," says King.

WHY someone created it...

Sean Askay, a Google engineer with no military affiliation who developed the layer in his free time, explains the project on his blog. "I have created a map for Google Earth that will connect you with each of their stories -- you can see photos, learn about how they died, visit memorial Web sites with comments from friends and families, and explore the places they called home and where they died," he writes. Askay started working on this project about four years ago while in graduate school. He came across the Web site icasualties.org, and was drawn to the stories of the fallen troops. He chose to focus on the U.S. and coalition forces' deaths.

And lastly, note that others obviously don't share your feelings about this site, Hank...

For Karen Meredith, who found out about the death of her son, Lt. Ken Ballard, on Memorial Day five years ago, it is an emotional tribute that she is thrilled to see up and running. "It's so important to me for people to know about my son. I found out that Ken was the second person killed in Najaf [Iraq], and I didn't know that. That's what this demonstrated. It's a powerful amount of information," she told CNN. "I want people to know how Ken lived, not just how he died. And this program allows people to know about him," she said.

Kris Stonesifer is the third soldier on the map. He and fellow ranger John Edmunds were killed in a helicopter accident in Pakistan on October 19, 2001 -- part of the U.S. military effort in the Afghanistan war. Stonesifer's mother, Ruth, told CNN that this project is a reminder of the true meaning of Memorial Day, which she feels is often overlooked.


Here's the longer CNN article if anyone is interested in finding out more...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/05/24/m...fallen.troops/


And here is the web site created to honor those who gave their lives...

http://www.mapthefallen.org/


And on this Memorial Day, I'd just like to send out my prayers and thanks, as an American, to anyone else here who has a family member or friend who gave their lives in the service of their country. Today, my Dad will be marching with my Uncles to remember the time they served together lo those many years ago. And to be sure, I'm sure their thoughts and hearts will be on two of my other Uncles -- their own brothers -- who did give their lives in service. So, God rest their souls and God bless anyone else today who is likewise remembering the sacrifices of people from their lives.

[violet lightning]

I couldn't disagree more either, and actually take strong offense about what you posted.
Memorial Day to me, is when we as Americans honor our fallen soldiers who have died serving their country. It is not the same as Veteran's Day, where we honor and thank our men and women who haved served their country in wartime and in Peace.

Memorial Day is strictly for those who have died serving their country.
This includes soldiers from the Revolutionary War, where we won our independence as a nation, to the Civil War, where we fought to stay together as a nation, to World Wars I and II where we fought for our very existence as a nation, to Vietnam, Korea, The Gulf War and now the Wars on Terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan.

When we honor our fallen comrads, we honor their courage, duty and sacrifice, not their political views or those of their commanders.
Read any commendation for any Medal of Honor Winner, (most given posthumously), read one of those, and then tell me we shouldn't honor their memories and their sacrifice.
Tell a surviving member of a family who lost someone in Iraq or Afghanistan that their service or their death is dishonorable.
My grandfather served in World War I, my father and two Uncles served in World War II. All saw combat, and thank God all came back. My cousin wasn't so lucky in Vietnam. Say what you want about that war, and the men who conducted it, but I know many men and women, including my cousin, who served with honor and courage and paid the ultimate sacrifice.In my cousins case, he died trying to evacuate wounded on his second (voluntary) trip back. I know men and women who serve in the Middle East too. Some on 2nd and 3rd tours because they believe in what they are doing, and believe they are having a positive impact. They are all good people, with good hearts, and a strong sense of duty and sevice. But of course, those stories don't get told that much on CNN.
I can't and won't argue the merits of the Iraq War, or the war in Afghanistan. (though in both cases they were murdurous, repressive, tortuous regimes that set back women's rights a couple of centuries and in the case of Afghanistan destroyed priceless world archaeological treasures as well)

What I can argue is the motivations of the men and women who serve this country in our armed forces. They have VOLUNTEERED to put their lives on the line to protect all of us. Part of that duty is obeying your Commander-In- Chief, whether its George W. Bush or Barack Obama.
The men and women we honor today have done that and more. They have made the ultimate sacrifice that anyone can make. They died protecting their country, their families, their brothers and sisters in arms, and over 250,000 died protecting not just our freedom , but most of the worlds as well.
I think thats something worth remembering

PS: Map of the Fallen is an amazing project.
Hank, I appreciate that you love Americans, I just felt strongly about this one.

[tslust]

I had one grandfather serve in World War I. He and my other grandfather made bombers during World War II. Another man whom kinda adopted me as a grandkid served in World War II. He spent about two and a half years in a German POW camp. My dad served (stateside) during Veitnam. If he would've been sent over, he probably would've been killed. One of his brothers served in the Air Force. Many of my mom's uncles served in World War II as well. Some good friends of mine are in The Service now. I take it personally when someone tries to slander our soldiers' sacrifice.

Take this however you want: This is our[America's] day, if you don't like it tough shit!!

[transjen]

Looks like the goose stepping hail Bush bozos still love his BS war Jennifer

[twistedone]

As a veteran, oh hell, I won't get into it with you. All I can say is that you sure enjoy being disrespectful.

Oh, and how was it unjust? Congress, which includes Democrats and Republicans had to vote for it.

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

But there is a lot of sadness to it! Insane tragedy brought on by an insane presidential administration who did all this for their own evil purposes.

The American soldiers who lost their lives in WW2 will always be remembered for taking part in a conflict that had immense consequenses - their lives were part of securing freedom against a tyrannic system for the entire world. Under the leadership of a few good men! That is America at its best. That is the America that will NEVER be forgotten in Europe.

But young American men and women being sacrified in an idiotic war that never should have been inititated lacks honour and only holds evil tragedy.

This is a war crime beyond reasoning. And it's not least a war crime brought on by an American president on his own people. A president who will never be held responsible for his evil doings simply because America has lost its course.

It's sad - but that's why the death of your soldiers is now not at all honourable. America lost its course - and your young men and women pay the price, not the responsible politicians. They pay a very dear and completely unfair price. They die, while Geo is grilling at home at his farm, ignorant of his wrong-doings...

I pray and believe Barack can bring back sanity to American policy and that we can stop seeing American casualties every day. This is SO horrible. America doesn't deserve this!

I simply don't understand how you good people could re-elect Geo Bush... are you happy now? Does it make you feel "full of American patriotic honour"?

I'll never understand the Republicans in their intensity... but I do remember the last, respectable Republican, Ronald Reagan, who probably screwed up American internal policy, but who stopped the cold war, because it was his passion and because he was a good man. Unfortunately, he also paved the way for the Bushes (and I'm certain not to his liking), and so be it. There's certainly foreign policy wise much more similarity between Barack and Reagan than between so many others.

Let's hope Barack can stop all this war mongering soon, so we don't have to hear about "honourable" American casualties any more. It sickens me.

I love Americans... especially when they are alive!

H

[transjen]

Originally Posted by twistedone

Oh, and how was it unjust? Congress, which includes Democrats and Republicans had to vote for it.

I guess you forgot that the congress was lied to by a lieing little weasel named KING GEORGE Jennifer

[horizontal]

brit soldier from both afg and iraq disagrees with this nonsense.

soldiers are prepared to kill and risk the same, but we are there to do our best to bring killing to an end

iraq - right idea, wrong reasons, poor strategy, better outcome, hope for the future...thanks to the very many men and women of a few good armies, no thanks to a very few of them who were disgraced

afg - right idea, average strategy, getting better day by day, hope for the future, thanks to ...etc

it makes it all worthwhile when the elders and traders speak to us in private and beg us to stay, to extend the safe zones, and please dont leave

proud to be a soldier, proud of the youngsters i lead in horrible places in horrible circumstances, proud of the genuine good we have done, sad that young muslim lives are thrown at us by bigotted mad leaders who pontificate in the hills and madrasas

what have you done today to make you feel proud?

[tslust]

Originally Posted by horizontal

brit soldier from both afg and iraq disagrees with this nonsense.

soldiers are prepared to kill and risk the same, but we are there to do our best to bring killing to an end

iraq - right idea, wrong reasons, poor strategy, better outcome, hope for the future...thanks to the very many men and women of a few good armies, no thanks to a very few of them who were disgraced

afg - right idea, average strategy, getting better day by day, hope for the future, thanks to ...etc

it makes it all worthwhile when the elders and traders speak to us in private and beg us to stay, to extend the safe zones, and please dont leave

proud to be a soldier, proud of the youngsters i lead in horrible places in horrible circumstances, proud of the genuine good we have done, sad that young muslim lives are thrown at us by bigotted mad leaders who pontificate in the hills and madrasas

what have you done today to make you feel proud?

General Carl von Clausewitz points out "The War of a community - of whole Nations, and particularly of civilised Nations - always starts from a political condition, and is called forth by a political motive. It is, therefore, a political act." In Iraq, the politicians seemed to agree on reasons for invasion. The military went in and did their job. Hussein's government didn't surrender, it simply disolved. Then the politicians couldn't decide on when "combat operations" should end, also they couldn't agree on what the overall strategic goals should've been. That is why our soldiers are still in Iraq. Not for Bush, not for obama, not even for oil; but because of the scheming and squabbling politicians (from both parties).

[The Conquistador]

They say that the 2 things you should never discuss: Politics and Religion. Hank! You've been a naughty boy. Tsk tsk.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by twistedone

...All I can say is that you sure enjoy being disrespectful...

Sir, where is it that I'm particularly disrespectful?

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Sir, where is it that I'm particularly disrespectful?

The very title of this thread is so disrespectful to the men and women who have served in my countries armed forces past present and future. It makes me hate you all the more Hank. You are the reason I rarely come here anymore. I asked of you a question many months ago and you never answered it so I'll ask again... who was it that signed the aid package to that armpit of a country you live in after the tsunamis? I truly wish you were washed away back then. If I saw you on the street tomorrow I'd lay you the fuck out. And the ghosts of dead soldiers of every country would cheer

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by Rachel

The very title of this thread is so disrespectful to the men and women who have served in my countries armed forces past present and future. It makes me hate you all the more Hank. You are the reason I rarely come here anymore. I asked of you a question many months ago and you never answered it so I'll ask again... who was it that signed the aid package to that armpit of a country you live in after the tsunamis? I truly wish you were washed away back then. If I saw you on the street tomorrow I'd lay you the fuck out. And the ghosts of dead soldiers of every country would cheer

I believe I answered: how much do you think your country makes on oil and mining rights from this country?

Aside from that I shall refrain from replying your post.