Meditation and Dreams: Share your experience

[sesame]

Tell me about it. Let us share our experiences in meditation
Share your interesting Dreams....

What do you meditate on? What is the highest good? What moral value propels you?

Which does the greatest good among the things mentioned below?
1) Faith in God?
2) Non-Believer Sceptic
3) Service to Mankind
4) Live in Harmony with Nature
5) Scientific invention
6) Getting Rich
7) Self Discovery and introspection

[sesame]

As for me, its...

7) Self Discovery and Introspection.

"Know Thyself" is as good as knowing God.
To look within and understand myself,
To question what it is all about...
To discover Who am I?

As for God, I believe in a Supreme Force that ultimately controls everything and maintains some sort of Eqiuilibrium. But I would rather look inside my own mind and find God within, than look for Him (or Her) outside. I think of God as Pure Consciousness that is the sourse of all Bliss, Love and Energy. The ideas like Truth, Peace, Infinity or Eternity spring from that Boundless Consciousness.

[sesame]

Why do I look inside? (meditate)

...Thats because I believe that God or that Ultimate Force is Pure Consciousness. And the only thing conscious I know of is my own mind.

The external world is made up of physical materials... men, animals, plants are sentient beings. But I can only perceive their outer form, not their inner consciousness. Although when we talk with each other, we feel the consciousness in each other. But still, speech is a poor vehicle for feelings and emotions. It is better realized as an awareness within ourselves.

[Bionca]

I'd say #3 Service to Mankind. Through serving others we find ourselves whilst also providing benefit to others. It is practical and efficient.

As far as meditation.. I find meditation to be a way to deal with and counter anxiety. Calming and centering the mind will absolutely allow one to refocus their mental processes and also to reframe problems in a way that makes them workable.

[sesame]

Originally Posted by Bionca

I'd say #3 Service to Mankind. Through serving others we find ourselves whilst also providing benefit to others. It is practical and efficient.

As far as meditation.. I find meditation to be a way to deal with and counter anxiety. Calming and centering the mind will absolutely allow one to refocus their mental processes and also to reframe problems in a way that makes them workable.

You are already serving humanity... Your bro.

I also think serving humanity is a worthy cause to live or die for.

[GRH]

Originally Posted by sesame

Tell me about it. Let us share our experiences in meditation
Share your interesting Dreams....

Which does the greatest good among the things mentioned below?
1) Faith in God?
2) Non-Believer Sceptic
3) Service to Mankind
4) Live in Harmony with Nature
5) Scientific invention
6) Getting Rich
7) Self Discovery and introspection

1) Self Discovery and Introspection-- looking within should lead to looking without. By discovering the true nature of our lower self, we discover the higher Self...

2) Faith in God(?) or some conception of the divine-- by breaking down the illusion of self and becoming enlightened to Self, we begin to realize a universal harmony, a cosmic dance which we are just the most minute part of and we realize that our own meaning and existence is part of this cosmic ebb and flow...We seek outside of ourself and have faith in something greater...

Herein, 3 & 4) Living in harmony with nature coupled with serving mankind-- this arises as our own shackes of ego break down. By having faith outside of our own self, we become swollen with compassion and love, we seek to express this divine love through positive karma, by both helping others and living in harmony with the universe.

As for Getting Rich or Scientific Inventions, these may have their place, and certainly, wealth and science can bring great advances to mankind. But these are largely ego driven pursuits, thus of less interest to me. The mind of a skeptic is very beautiful, skepticism represents a certain amount of rationality, and the skeptics have much to add to any discussion. We are all pictures that come in different frames.

As to meditation, dreams, etc. my own spirituality has been influenced by psychoactive substances and an almagamtion of Eastern and Western thought. My dreams are sometimes crazy and would merit several more posts, time allowing. That said, I almost always dream lucidly.

[sesame]

A Wise Man once told me that in dreams, we (the soul) gets dissociated from the physical body and moves around. Once I fell asleep while trying to meditate. While meditating, I was in savasana (the corpse posture); ie, lying down, very relaxed all over the body, all muscles loose... no worry left in the mind... a certain feeling creeps in the brain like it is being washed with cold water. It is better than real sleep, as the body and mind are both relaxed.

Anyway, I fell asleep and entered a dreaming state. I saw the exact room, the mat I use for yoga, there was light in the room. I was floating midway in the air. As I looked down, I saw ME, lying spread eagled below! I looked back at my own face from above and wondered, "I am dreaming". Then I tried to float out of the window, into the outside world. But something was pulling me back into the room. Soon I was sucked back into the flesh body lying on the mat. And I woke up.
This dream made me rethink a lot of my fixed notions, and I dont consider this a false imagination of the mind. It was too realistic and philosophical.

[sesame]

Originally Posted by sesame

But the questions here are:
1) does he also forget of being human?
2) does he also forget of ever having a body?
3) If the Ego is dissolved, then who is asking the questions?
4) And to whom?
5) If there is no ego or previous memory, then where from comes the concept of "who" (=identity), where (=place), I am (=existence), when (=time) and finally, I (=ego)
Without any ego, there is no such thing as I, we, here, AND you, there, this or that. With an ego, there arises a feeling of separation from the rest of the universe. Me (I) and the rest of the world.
The bubble of I-ness or ego differentiates me from the outer world.

Even though I support Vedanta theory, I support the I-ness theory of Yoga and stand aside from Vedanta in the final stage. I dont want to be dissolved or annihilated into the Infinite. I wish to retain my separate identity. But... we can discuss about that at a later stage.

Originally Posted by GRH

At its purest, ego dissolution negates the concept of "human" and "body" alike. Even the premise of asking questions becomes silly. You become the question, and you become the answer simultaneously. You become all that ever was, is, and is to be. "You" (in the formal sense") simply ARE...Simply EXISTING.

Here we will diverge, as the final implications of Vedanta I hold close and have experienced. This is where I have gotten into conflict with much Western religion, that perptetual attachment to identity. I think many come close, but they wish to deny the final truth, out of their own selfish desire to retain that fundamental sense of ego...That fundamental sense of being something "special" and "separate." That said, it is a nice attachment to cling to, and I fault nobody for it. But I'm not convinced that "I" in the sense that I currently perceive myself to be will ever exist beyond this moment. The remainder of this philosophical discussion would probably be better suited to your meditation thread, Sesame.

The Vedanta says that the Absolute Consciousness, Brahman, being one without any second is the only thing that really exists beyond all this illusion. Since this Impersonal All-pervading Entity is the source of all bliss, it is the purpose of all individual souls to finally merge into this Brahman and lose their unique identities. The analogy is this...

Individual souls, like you and me, while investigating the Nature of Truth, go nearer and nearer to the Purest state of Consciousness which is Brahman. It is like: tiny toys made of salt, enter the vast ocean full of salty water, trying to measure the depth of the ocean. In doing so, they dissolve into the ocean and become part of it.

God or Brahman is pure and infinite Joy, immeasurable Love and timeless in nature and the Source of everything. But He or Brahman (in Vedanta) is not God in the sense we are used to. It is beyond that scope. God has the World and Devotees with him to rule over. But Brahman is all inclusive. Where Brahman is, there is no second being or object, there is only Brahman. Nobody meets Brahman, but merges into Him. The Worlds dont exist in Brahman. It is Absolute Unity into the Source. (beyond name, form or duality). Advaita Vedanta= Non-Dual Essence of the Vedas.
Therefore, some proponents of Yoga have said, Brahman is a mountain of sugar and I am an ant who loves to taste sugar. I have no intention of becoming the mountain, but to taste it for ever and ever. This can only be done by purifying one's consciousness to the finest degree, but retaining some king of ego to maintain a pure yet, separate identity. The Yogi's pure ego is not to be confused with the desire-infested ego of a worldly man. It is called Nija-bodh. Nija= I am, bodh= consciousness. It is like a fine bubble that allows him to maintain a separate identity or personality in spite of being so close to All-pervading God. The Yogi's ego is a means of self protection from permanent dissolution.
I prefer the Yogi's fate more than that of the annihilated Vedanta Philosopher. God was, Is, and will be forever. What benefit is there if my identity merges and vanishes into Him? There will be no change. So, why not maintain a separate identity and yet enjoy His immensity? Is that not a better choice?

Vedanta's ultimate state: Brahmavid Brahmaiva bhavati. => The knower of Brahman becomes Brahman Himself. (ie, the small ego merges into the Infinite)
Yogi's Ultimate state: Kaivalya. Keval= Only. It means I become free from dependance of everything. The objects of the world, nature, universe, Gods, whoever,...I dont need anything. I become a Liberated soul, free from everything forever.

From my point of view, the Yogi remains and yet is free.
And the Vedanta Philosopher becomes free, but remains no more

[ila]

Originally Posted by sesame

A Wise Man once told me that in dreams, we (the soul) gets dissociated from the physical body and moves around. Once I fell asleep while trying to meditate. While meditating, I was in savasana (the corpse posture); ie, lying down, very relaxed all over the body, all muscles loose... no worry left in the mind... a certain feeling creeps in the brain like it is being washed with cold water. It is better than real sleep, as the body and mind are both relaxed.

Anyway, I fell asleep and entered a dreaming state. I saw the exact room, the mat I use for yoga, there was light in the room. I was floating midway in the air. As I looked down, I saw ME, lying spread eagled below! I looked back at my own face from above and wondered, "I am dreaming". Then I tried to float out of the window, into the outside world. But something was pulling me back into the room. Soon I was sucked back into the flesh body lying on the mat. And I woke up.
This dream made me rethink a lot of my fixed notions, and I dont consider this a false imagination of the mind. It was too realistic and philosophical.

Sesame, I have read about others that experienced this same thing. It must feel quite eerie upon waking and then remembering an out of body exprience. What were your conscious thoughts and feelings upon realizing that you had such an out of body experience?

[sesame]

Originally Posted by ila

Sesame, I have read about others that experienced this same thing. It must feel quite eerie upon waking and then remembering an out of body exprience. What were your conscious thoughts and feelings upon realizing that you had such an out of body experience?

ila, it felt great. Strange, unfamiliar, but thrilling. I want it to happen again and again. The reason behind such a wish is... people are accustomed to most phenomena of the known world. As as the years go by, they gradually become bored and tired of having the same experiences again and again. Its much like a broken record playing away the same tune. So when we face some hitherto unfamiliar phenomenon, we may feel fear, trauma, revolt... whatever, but still get attracted to it at the same time. Thrill, romance, twist, amazement... give us the punch we need to emotionally rejuvenate.

Another time another dream. This time I was consciously trying to get an experience for days. But everytime I fell asleep, I dreamt of silly, irrelevant things. This time, I had recently read Carlos Castaneda's "Journey to Ixtlan" and wanted to look at any part of my body in my dream.

This dream only lasted for 10 minutes. Ok, here goes:
I was sleeping on my bed. In my dream also, I "woke up" in my bed. I turned around and looked below. I saw the exact tint and design of the bed sheet. I couldn't see my face or the rest of my body, it was like "out of focus". But I saw my right hand! It was there... green in colour... glowing with radiant green energy.
I looked at it again and again. I was (say) 2 feet above bed hanging in mid-air in a horizontal position. I was unaware of my dream body. I was just looking. Then, I was outside in an instant, & I didnt know how I got there. I saw the road glittering with electric lights. I was moving through the trees that bordered the road. The leafy parts of the trees were foggy. As I moved ahead through the trees, I felt like passing through the same greenish cloud that constituted my hand.
The next thing was a yank and I woke up in my old bed!

[sesame]

Ok, this one is of a more serious nature. Altered state can be brought about not only be drugs, but also by intense meditation... and incantations. I want to relate about one of my own experiences brought about by Vedic incantations.
A powerful Holyman out of sheer kindness taught me an incantation. I checked out the Sanskrit verses and considered the incantation or mantra to be incorrect from a grammatical sense. All my life I had been a doubting ass . Anyway, after six years, out of desperation to catch a glimpse of the astral world, I decided to try out the mantra. I arranged for a clean empty room, sat down for japa (repeated incantation) on a clean blanket upon the floor. I faced East as prescribed. I started at 12 midnight and completed 6000 incantations by sunrise. During the incantations, my mind became quite empty, only the mantra could be heard inside my head. I repeated this for 3 days and nothing extra-ordinary happened during the sessions. I was pretty frustrated and blamed the faulty mantra (and the ignorance of its sourse, the Holyman) for my failure. As tradition commands, the Yogi should go on practicing with unswerving faith and concentration, without giving a single thought to success or failure. :D That is so... not easy!
Anyway, on the dawn of the sixth day, a really peculiar thing happened. I had completed the incantation for the night, and was putting things back to places... cleaning up the room. Then I laid down for the some rest. Suddenly an irregular blotch of white light came out of the wall and headed straight for me. All my strength vanished, muscles all over my body stopped obeying my frantic commands... I was paralysed and helpless... to top it all, my breathing stopped! Only my eyes worked, I looked fixedly at the light and started to ask for help with the same incantation. The light passed slowly over me and entered the opposite wall. Slowly my breath returned, then after two minutes, I could move my hands and feet.

Inference: Due to the incessant repetition of the mantra for long hours at a stretch, which is not a normal human behavor, my mind slowly entered an altered state. On the sixth day, I became conscious of some form of energy and that trauma pushed my bodily functions to a shutdown, temporarily. After that, I stopped the practice and never again witnessed such a light.

[grossseeking]

Originally Posted by sesame

Tell me about it. Let us share our experiences in meditation
Share your interesting Dreams....

What do you meditate on? What is the highest good? What moral value propels you?

Which does the greatest good among the things mentioned below?
1) Faith in God?
2) Non-Believer Sceptic
3) Service to Mankind
4) Live in Harmony with Nature
5) Scientific invention
6) Getting Rich
7) Self Discovery and introspection

The highest good is to be in anytime, to live, live, live, to participate of the being in anytime, anywhere forever because human being is not for death but to live. To participate of the being, but we don't have the power to make the things go how we want, because the things are how are them and not how we want, and for that , for the fact that we came not first, but the reality come first, and them reality make the rules, because we want to make the rules, but we can't, we only can recognize the rule and in all aspects of reality, wich means: respect always the totality consider and not to impose.

That's why we can't make the things of reality how we want, we ony can recognize, and not have the power to change the rules of reality, we can make laws near to reality rules or not near, but we have the responsability with the reality, human being is not an animal without conscience, them we have responsability for and with teh reality, and for that is that we have not to impose our rules, we can recognize what happen to us, but human being have to search responsability with the reality because the reality comes first and them the human being.

We are what we are and how we are.
It's only sad that we want to eat lies, our lies, to make us happy for a moment, but is not true happiness, and is not true good.

Moral values is to have freedom, but also freedom to make the good and thats is also refered to not lie to us in our mind and heart , yes that we can be in sometimes not conveniently responsable or we can't know very7 well the things in the way we are, it can happen, we don't have to make us fault, only we have to be sincerily and to search true with all aspects of reality not only a few.

[ila]

One of the most common dreams that people have is being naked in public. I used to have dream about being naked in public and trying to hide from view or at least trying to cover myself up. In the last few years though every time I dream of being naked in public I don't try to hide or cover myself. I find that I like to be naked in public and sometimes even revel in the fact that I'm naked and no one else is.

So this is an invite to all amateur psychologists to analyze what this really means. My own interpretation is that I no longer care what people think of me and that I have dropped all my inhibitions.

[sesame]

People can see the same dream for different reasons. Its very personal.

I dont believe in everything the famous Austrian naughty boy Sigmund has said. He was obsessed with sensuality. He saw sexual desires flying everywhere, like the Rishis of yore saw God everywhere! He actually wanted to make his point and wouldnt listen to anything else. Furthermore, I believe in Franz Anton Mesmer's method of hypnotism more than Freud's psychoanalysis. It takes great skill and will-force to perform Mesmerism on somebody. And it requires just a degree to slap your opinion on somebody and call it psycho-analysis! The ancient and noble art of hypnotism is on the verge of becoming extinct.

Ok then, Ila, you were bothered by something about yourself, something that made you feel vulnerable and exposed. It must have been something mental or physical... I cant tell; but now you have gotten over that fear. You have reasoned with your own fear and put it to rest. So now you 'like to be naked in public and sometimes even revel in the fact that I'm naked '. You are now totally comfortable with the issue, and feel good about it.

Joke: Hey, it could be your liking for Ladyboys! You were afraid that people might out that you love ladyboys. Now after talking to so many real Tgirls, you understand and appreciate them, and feel proud of it.

What do you say?

[ila]

Sigmund has to be taken with a lot of grains of sand. He had more sexual hang-ups than anyone I can think of. I think he was actually in love with his mother and hated his father for being married to his mother. He saw his father as a rival for his mother’s affection and was irreversibly scarred. That is why he related everything back to sex. He would have been a much happier man if hadn’t had such a big Oedipus complex.

I have never been a believer in hypnotism. I have heard that there two types of people that cannot be hypnotized â€" the very stupid and the very intelligent. A friend once tried to hypnotize me and he was not successful. I leave it to the reader then to judge into which category I fall.

I do believe that you are right about my dreams of being naked in public as revealing a fear of something that I have finally overcome. Maybe it was that I was afraid people would find out about my love for Tgirls. Although that wouldn’t explain why I had the same dream for years and even before I had ever thought of Tgirls. Perhaps it was a series fears that I had to overcome and I’ve finally worked through all my fears.

[sesame]

Originally Posted by ila

I have never been a believer in hypnotism

plz, explain why?