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  #51  
Old 10-10-2009
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Default Home Defence?

I'm not from the US, so what do you expect happens at your home? Are there so many psychos that want to kill you? Are house invasions really normal? Did you expect bomb belt terrorists or wild animals? Or what is it?
If someone wants to steal something out of your house, they usually do that when nobody is at home. Unless you build a spring gun they have only something more to steal.

In mind it would be nice if "friendly" people that knock your door Saturday 8:00 AM and want to speak about god, and then BOOM but I hate cleaning.
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  #52  
Old 10-10-2009
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Originally Posted by Tread View Post
I'm not from the US, so what do you expect happens at your home? Are there so many psychos that want to kill you? Are house invasions really normal? Did you expect bomb belt terrorists or wild animals? Or what is it?
If someone wants to steal something out of your house, they usually do that when nobody is at home. Unless you build a spring gun they have only something more to steal.

In mind it would be nice if "friendly" people that knock your door Saturday 8:00 AM and want to speak about god, and then BOOM but I hate cleaning.
I was expecting such a comment eventually. You're European I take it? There are several reasons why someone would want to own a gun, home defense being one of them. Only an idiot would say something like "What are the chances of a home invasion actually happening? I don't really need to be prepared." Unless you live in a gated community with security patrols, your home is at risk at any moment. Now if you're like me and live in the ghetto and are a transsexual, you are at extraordinary risk of assault, rape, murder, home invasion, etc. I highly recommend arming yourself if you fall into this category of "high risk persons", such as myself.

But guns are not only for keeping out criminals but also for keeping out the government. You see, in America, our country was founded on the vital right to owning firearms to secure the nation from threats at home. We used our right to own weapons in 1776 to overthrow a tyrannical government. This right is necessary to keep the government in check. In the event of Martial Law or the establishment of a Police State or Totalitarian Dictatorship, the citizens can fight back and overthrow the corrupt government. In Europe and pretty much everywhere in the world, you have been stripped of your only defense against totalitarianism. Look at Australia and the United Kingdom. These countries are decaying into Police States and the people have no defense. Of course we're seeing this corruption rising in the U.S. too. Civilian gun ownership is vital to the national security of the nation.

Bullshit Laws In The US: This is why we need guns.

*ACTA
*Patriot Act
*Massachusetts Senate Bill 2028
*Kentucky House Bill HB 775
*GIVE Act

Note that the GIVE Act's original threat to civil rights was removed before it was passed. The original text outraged many people including Congress and the Senate.
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  #53  
Old 10-10-2009
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Originally Posted by Tread View Post
I'm not from the US, so what do you expect happens at your home?
I expect that the sanctity of my home is respected by my fellow citizens. It is not a shelter or a bank; is is the dwelling of another person.

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Originally Posted by Tread View Post
Are there so many psychos that want to kill you?
Depends on where you live but generally no. Psychos; NO, however there are criminals that will not hesitate to attack the resident if cornered and they are alot more common.

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Originally Posted by Tread View Post
Are house invasions really normal?
Also, dependent on your location. However, it isn't a stretch to say that home burglaries are the most common form of crime.

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Did you expect bomb belt terrorists or wild animals? Or what is it?
No. Wild animals are usually in rural areas and Bomb-belt terrorists can be found in The Sandbox(Middle East), Europe and any place with a significant Hebrew/Jewish population.

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Originally Posted by Tread View Post
If someone wants to steal something out of your house, they usually do that when nobody is at home. Unless you build a spring gun they have only something more to steal.
This is purely based on personal observation but everytime I've had my place broken into, it was at nighttime. Night tends to favor a criminal in that they are alot harder to identify and can make an easier getaway/it's alot harder to track them in the dark as opposed to broad daylight.

Not always true with the "they now have your weapons" arguement. Most folks will have their guns locked up in a safe which can weigh anywhere from +400 Lbs or have a weapon on their person. Unless your average street thug has friends with him or has the body of Paleolithic man, he will not be going anywhere with a giant safe. Only idiots leave weapons where criminals or untrained children can touch them with their grubby little paws.

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In mind it would be nice if "friendly" people that knock your door Saturday 8:00 AM and want to speak about god, and then BOOM but I hate cleaning.
Whatever floats your boat dude. I personally do not wish anyone grievous bodily harm unless they make it clear that they intend to do so towards me; breaking and entering being one. Afterall, if someone is going to break into another persons house and do god-knows-what, then what assurance do I have that stealing is all they intend to do? A shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot conveys a homeowners intentions and assures a criminal that said homeowner will not put up with his shit.
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  #54  
Old 10-10-2009
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Originally Posted by KittyKaiti View Post
In Europe and pretty much everywhere in the world, you have been stripped of your only defense against totalitarianism. Look at Australia and the United Kingdom. These countries are decaying into Police States and the people have no defense.
Nonsense! Their benevolent overlords are only "thinking of the children".
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  #55  
Old 10-10-2009
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Default Ballistics porn!!!

On a different note, here are video clips of bullets striking different mediums and all captured with a 1,000,000 FPS camera!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfDoQwIAaXg




BTW Tread, is your avatar of a Beanie Baby? Just curious because I have the Penguin and Koala ones. I'm a dork!
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  #56  
Old 10-11-2009
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Originally Posted by Tread View Post
I’m not from the US, so what do you expect happens at your home? Are there so many psychos that want to kill you?
Hi Tread,

KittyKaiti and AngryPostman answered your questions better than I could have. In the United States we have ten amendments to our Constitution known as the “Bill of Rights” that guarantees certain freedoms. It is fundamental to our system of governance--indeed our very “way of life.” The first right is the “freedom of speech” that is so well known. The second is the right “to keep and bear arms.” Our country was founded on the principles of individual rights and the right to be free from tyranny. What is commonly known as the “revolutionary war” was actually a war for independence. One of the ways of insuring our independence and freedom was to support an armed populace. We take this right quite seriously.

When I joined this forum, the last thing on my mind was guns! However, I started this thread in response to the beating of one of our members. Yes, there are sometimes people out there that want to hurt others--even kill. I grew up in one of our most dangerous cities--Detroit. Check it out on the Internet if you like. We lived in a “good” neighborhood by comparison but there were still burglaries, robberies, assaults, rapes, and murders. Yes, there is a police department but the reality is they arrive “after the fact” and typically don’t provide a deterrent for hardened criminals. In the end, you really must be prepared to defend yourself.

Alternatives to guns include Karate or Judo, chemical sprays, “tasers,” or knives. Not all of these are legal in all 50 states and if you are small or outnumbered, aren’t going to do much good anyway. Many of our members are also the target of “hate crimes.” Often these involve some kind of physical assault usually by more than one attacker. There are well documented cases of gay, lesbian, or transgendered individuals who have been beaten or even killed by their assailants.

My original post recommended learning to shoot and carry a gun for self defense. You can read my “profile” for more about me if you like. Currently I live in Indianapolis which is relatively “safer” than Detroit. However there was an incident a few years ago in one of our downtown parking garages where I am absolutely certain that the fact I was “carrying” saved my wife and myself.

Hope this helps you to understand a little more about the reasons for owning a gun. BTW what country are you from? Also I like your avatar!

Andrew

Last edited by aw9725; 10-11-2009 at 02:43 AM.
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  #57  
Old 10-11-2009
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Originally Posted by aw9725 View Post
KittyKaiti and AngryPostman answered your questions better than I could have. ...
...Hope this helps you to understand a little more about the reasons for owning a gun.
My question was about home defence and not about owning, or carrying a gun.

Hate crime, murder, rape, violence and so on usually happen on the street and not at home.
I can't belief that someone invades and garrison your home, why should someone do this?

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Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
Depends on where you live but generally no. Psychos; NO, however there are criminals that will not hesitate to attack the resident if cornered and they are alot more common.
I don't understand, there are common cornered criminals that attack uninvolved homes? Why?

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Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
This is purely based on personal observation but everytime I've had my place broken into, it was at nighttime. Night tends to favor a criminal in that they are alot harder to identify and can make an easier getaway/it's alot harder to track them in the dark as opposed to broad daylight.
Yes that's my personal observation. In nearly all cases I know that a Thief's notice that someone is present in the building that they break in, they try to escape. Is that not the case in the US? (I don't know)
A Thief tries to avoid confrontation. It is easier to get away if nobody is there to identify, than at night and wake up the house owner. The best would be at night and nobody is at home.




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BTW Tread, is your avatar of a Beanie Baby? Just curious because I have the Penguin and Koala ones. I'm a dork!
I signed pictures I have made with a, under UV-Light, glowing Scorpion. I don't wonder that other find it scary or disgusting in first, but didn't changed it. For my Avatar I wanted a nice friendly pic combined with the glowing Scorpion. I quick drew little changes, mouth colour, to a stuffed Scorpion I found on the net.
I thought it was a plush animal for $19.95. But you are right, also I didn't find it on their site. And it's only $4.87 with shipping at Amazon, I want to have it.

Last edited by Tread; 10-11-2009 at 10:54 AM.
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  #58  
Old 10-11-2009
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Hate crime, murder, rape, violence and so on usually happen on the street and not at home.
I can't belief that someone invades and garrison your home, why should someone do this?
My sister had her house broken into by 2 would-be bank robbers who were armed. Not 5 mintues after she left, they broke in. Now suppose she hadn't left when she did, her and her baby would be at the mercy of 2 felons who were hopped up on meth and swinging pistols around. The cops had them barricaded inside the house and it took about 20 rounds of CS to flush them out. They broke and entered but do you really want to trust criminals who have a history of violence that they are not going to harm you in any way?

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Originally Posted by Tread View Post
I don't understand, there are common cornered criminals that attack uninvolved homes? Why?
Not sure what you mean by this but what I was trying to say that the odds of running into someone of the likes of Charles Manson or John Wayne Gacy are relatively slim, whereas the odds of running into a felon who will not hesitate to escalate to violence when cornered are significantly higher.

If said perp has one more strike against him and will be going away for a long time if he's caught, he's not going to put up his hands and smile sheepishly and say something like, "Oops! Ya caught me red-handed!" The perp is not trying to go back to jail and will do what is necessary to stay away from bars, even if that means hurting or killing someone.

The most common mistakes people make is that:

1) The criminal only wants valuables.

2) The criminal will never hit my house because I live in a good neighborhood or something along those lines.

Crime can happen anywhere. Period. How often it happens is dependent on where you live.





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Originally Posted by Tread View Post
Yes that's my personal observation. In nearly all cases I know that a Thief's notice that someone is present in the building that they break in, they try to escape. Is that not the case in the US? (I don't know)
A Thief tries to avoid confrontation. It is easier to get away if nobody is there to identify, than at night and wake up the house owner. The best would be at night and nobody is at home.
While they try to avoid confrontation, most criminals have a history of violence and are repeat offenders. People like that will not hesitate to hurt someone if it means accomplishing their objective.

Robbing a house is a crapshoot. Regardless if it is day or night, someone will either be there or not be there. Unless you recon the place prior to the bust, a simple smash and grab is never as simple as that.

Simple fact is that you did not invite them into your abode and they are unwanted. Being unprepared in your own home is an unnecessary risk for a false sense of security.

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I signed pictures I have made with a, under UV-Light, glowing Scorpion. I don't wonder that other find it scary or disgusting in first, but didn't changed it. For my Avatar I wanted a nice friendly pic combined with the glowing Scorpion. I quick drew little changes, mouth colour, to a stuffed Scorpion I found on the net.
I thought it was a plush animal for $19.95. But you are right, also I didn't find it on their site. And it's only $4.87 with shipping at Amazon, I want to have it.
Cool!
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  #59  
Old 10-11-2009
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I'm sorry to hear your criminals are so stupid that they try to escape in a random house instead of try to get away. But would it help if you were at home with a gun you have to get out of the safe when armed criminals suddenly break in? If they are surprising, it would be too late even the gun is at a particular open place in your house. Is the risk lower to get harmed if you have a ready gun at home and caught off guard?

How do those criminals get so easy in the house? A broken window can be pretty dangerous if someone wants to hurry through, and a looked door shouldn't be easy to open without proper tools or by a non professional.


I don't want to discus if it is better to confront armed criminals with guns or to cooperate. I don't see the reason to extra argue with home defence, and the need of bigger guns for it.
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Old 10-11-2009
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Originally Posted by Tread View Post
I'm sorry to hear your criminals are so stupid that they try to escape in a random house instead of try to get away. But would it help if you were at home with a gun you have to get out of the safe when armed criminals suddenly break in? If they are surprising, it would be too late even the gun is at a particular open place in your house. Is the risk lower to get harmed if you have a ready gun at home and caught off guard?
They are not stupid. What I was trying to say was that the criminal will always try to escape, even if it means that they will have to go through you.

Most of the time, a spare gun is within ready reach of the occupant. Unless they break in through your bedroom window or you live in a studio, you will have a couple seconds to a couple minutes of time to arm yourself. I for example have my Mosin right under my bed with 4 in the mag and 1 in the chamber. Should I hear the sound of breaking wood or glass, I can have it locked and loaded and in the low-ready position in under 2 seconds. At a walking pace, it takes about 6 seconds to make it from the front door to my bedroom and half that for running/jogging pace. That extra second allows me to orient my sights.

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How do those criminals get so easy in the house? A broken window can be pretty dangerous if someone wants to hurry through, and a looked door shouldn't be easy to open without proper tools or by a non professional.
Broken windows can be dangerous but odds are that the criminal is a repeat offender and has done it before. You wouldn't believe how easy it is to bust through a doorlock. Hell, most doorknobs use the same key. Go to a hardware store and check out the selection of locks and compare the makes and models and the accompanying keys. The keys are varied but they are pretty much the same. The different models of locks even have the same serial number which means that the key from a brass doorhandle will work on a brushed stainless steel doorhandle is the serials match up or are close enough. Not as infallible as most people think.


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I don't want to discus if it is better to confront armed criminals with guns or to cooperate. I don't see the reason to extra argue with home defence, and the need of bigger guns for it.
I know. I was just trying to explain some differences.
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  #61  
Old 10-11-2009
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Hi there.

I am tempted to quote the movie "Shoot'em up" with Clive Owens...


JohnDowe.
Hi all.

Did you mean the one about "a pussy with gun" thing?


Sandra.
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  #62  
Old 10-11-2009
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They are not stupid. What I was trying to say was that the criminal will always try to escape, even if it means that they will have to go through you.
In my opinion they are stupid, there is no way out of a surrounded house, and they are going longer in jail by doing this and even longer (maybe death penalty) if they kill people.

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Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
You wouldn't believe how easy it is to bust through a doorlock. Hell, most doorknobs use the same key. Go to a hardware store and check out the selection of locks and compare the makes and models and the accompanying keys. The keys are varied but they are pretty much the same. The different models of locks even have the same serial number which means that the key from a brass doorhandle will work on a brushed stainless steel doorhandle is the serials match up or are close enough. Not as infallible as most people think.
Usually the lock is the most stabile part of the door, then the door itself and the door angles are the weakest. I don't know how it is with your door knob combined with look. It seems to get easier to the mechanics cause a big part is in front of the door.
There is a big variety of cylinder locks, Pin Tumbler Locks are not the only ones. If the hardware store sells such mass product keys, I wouldn't use it for my main door. But it needs a lot of luck to find a fitting lock that opens with your key if you are on the run after a bank robbery.



If this sort of crime is common, yourself or people you know are victims of this, I can comprehend your home defence point of view.
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Old 10-11-2009
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In my opinion they are stupid, there is no way out of a surrounded house, and they are going longer in jail by doing this and even longer (maybe death penalty) if they kill people.
If this is in reference to the robbers who broke into my sisters house, then yes, they are stupid. I won't argue that. But they are the exception, not the rule.

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Originally Posted by Tread View Post
Usually the lock is the most stabile part of the door, then the door itself and the door angles are the weakest. I don't know how it is with your door knob combined with look. It seems to get easier to the mechanics cause a big part is in front of the door.
There is a big variety of cylinder locks, Pin Tumbler Locks are not the only ones. If the hardware store sells such mass product keys, I wouldn't use it for my main door. But it needs a lot of luck to find a fitting lock that opens with your key if you are on the run after a bank robbery.

If this sort of crime is common, yourself or people you know are victims of this, I can comprehend your home defence point of view.
Actually the hinges are stronger as opposed to the lock. You have more points of contact on the hinges compared to the deadbolt. Deadbolts and Doorjambs can be busted open by a wellplaced flathead screwdriver and a swift kick(I know because I got locked out of my home once )

Again, what happened to my sis was the exception, not the norm. A smarter criminal would get keys no problem and make for a cleaner job; your run of the mill street thug is rather impulsive and stupid. Home burglaries are common; the occurence of break-ins just depends on where you live at.




*Sorry for dragging this on. Talking to you is rather enjoyable*
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  #64  
Old 10-11-2009
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No need to excuse.

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Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
Again, what happened to my sis was the exception, not the norm. A smarter criminal would get keys no problem and make for a cleaner job; your run of the mill street thug is rather impulsive and stupid. Home burglaries are common; the occurence of break-ins just depends on where you live at.
If it is the exception I don't see the need for extra a home defence weapon.
A good equipped would use an electronic lock pick. Opens every Pin Tumbler Lock in one or two seconds. The easiest way would be a crowbar.
Home burglaries are not killer, and I think they don't want to become one. Smart ones would observe before break in so they can get most profit out of it with low risk to get caught.

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Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
Actually the hinges are stronger as opposed to the lock. You have more points of contact on the hinges compared to the deadbolt. Deadbolts and Doorjambs can be busted open by a wellplaced flathead screwdriver and a swift kick(I know because I got locked out of my home once )
Take a wafer tumbler lock and a screwdriver doesn't work.
Maybe we are talking about different doors and locks.
1. pic: Is that how your locks look like? (was a good pic of it never mind what language)
2. pic: These I know the best. A big snapper and a separate lock bolt, but more bolts turned at the same time are not rare. The lock is fully in the door. It seems like that the doorframe is also much thicker.
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  #65  
Old 10-11-2009
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If it is the exception I don't see the need for extra a home defence weapon.
The whole bank-robber-breaking-into-my sisters-house is not the norm. However someone breaking into a house looking for valuables is far more likely to occur. Locks are not impenetrable. With the right tools even the toughest of locks can be broken. All locks do is buy time for someone to ready themselves against attack. If you use locks and various devices to safeguard your valuables, why would you not have an added assurance for your most valuable possession; your life? Saying that you will never need to protect yourself from bodily harm because locks will always deterr someone is like not having a Plan B. It's like the old infantry saying goes,"If your assault is going as planned, you are walking into an ambush."

Assumption is the mother of all fuckups.

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Take a wafer tumbler lock and a screwdriver doesn't work.
Maybe we are talking about different doors and locks.
1. pic: Is that how your locks look like? (was a good pic of it never mind what language)
2. pic: These I know the best. A big snapper and a separate lock bolt, but more bolts turned at the same time are not rare. The lock is fully in the door. It seems like that the doorframe is also much thicker.
I haven't encountered many doorknobs like the second one. I take it those are more prevalent in dwellings where you live rather than here in the US. I've only seen them on school doors and Gov. buildings and I've seen them get opened by a credit card or something of similar thickness.
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Old 10-12-2009
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The fact is, Tread, that no matter what the risk is, whether low or high, it is not smart to be unprepared for any form of attack. I don't care what the statistics are or what happens more or less frequently. The fact is that at any time, an armed robbery or other home invasion can occur and I would rather have a weapon, preferably a firearm, ready to kill a motherer, should someone come breaking down my door.
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Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
If you use locks and various devices to safeguard your valuables, why would you not have an added assurance for your most valuable possession; your life? Saying that you will never need to protect yourself from bodily harm because locks will always deterr someone is like not having a Plan B. It's like the old infantry saying goes,"If your assault is going as planned, you are walking into an ambush."

Assumption is the mother of all fuckups.
I don't think Thief's want to fight with the house owner or getting identified, and I don't think they kill everyone they met while breaking in. Also I don't think it is a, if I don't shoot him he will harm me, situation. But I don't know how it is in a county where nearly every criminal is armed with guns.
An ambush at military, war or on the street is different and can happens, but at your home? And if someone creates an ambush at your home you're dead before you notice anything.

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I haven't encountered many doorknobs like the second one. I take it those are more prevalent in dwellings where you live rather than here in the US. I've only seen them on school doors and Gov. buildings and I've seen them get opened by a credit card or something of similar thickness.
The door overlap the wall, so there is not a directly gap to the snapper. A credit card is not long and not flexible enough to open the snapper. Have most US doors a direct gap to the snapper/bolt?
The lock and key service have cards that can do this, but this only works with the snapper and not with the bolt that locks the door. It happens often that people accordantly shut a door, without handle or knob on the outside, and forgot the key. I guess you experienced it by locking you out, as the most do with doors that only can be open with a key form outside.



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The fact is, Tread, that no matter what the risk is, whether low or high, it is not smart to be unprepared for any form of attack. I don't care what the statistics are or what happens more or less frequently. The fact is that at any time, an armed robbery or other home invasion can occur and I would rather have a weapon, preferably a firearm, ready to kill a motherer, should someone come breaking down my door.
You could also prepare against fire (much higher risk) with an automatic fire-extinguishing system, protect your house and you against meteorites or prepare for naturally viruses, dirty bombs, biological, or chemical weapons with face masks or ABC-Masks.

It would save much more life if more people would learn first aid than having a gun for home defense.

Why should a Thief kill you and should other people invade your home?

Last edited by Tread; 10-12-2009 at 02:36 PM.
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Well, I own two fire extinguishers, have a gas mask and was trained for first aid and CPR, so.... your point?

Wait.... did you just say what I think you said?

"It would save much more life if more people would learn first aid than having a gun for home defense"

Are you saying that it would be better for me or a roommate to get shot, stabbed, etc and for me to know how to save her life rather than for me to own a firearm and kill the intruder before he can do anything? -_- >.> <.<


"Why should a Thief kill you and should other people invade your home?"

I dunno, ask them the next time you meet one. They do it because they're stupid, poor, an asshole or who knows.
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Like Tread i'm from outside of the US and live in jolly old england and i think growing up without guns around hasn't had much of a negative result on my life.

I in no way though agree with Tread though on the whole just learn First aid and everything will be better thing. i agree with everyone else on being prepared and ready as well as knowing first aid

I've come to label nearly everything in my sight as a weapon and how to use it like one such as a pencil, keys, spray cans (well those are obvious) and other everyday normal objects.
I guess it really all started when i was younger. after school me and my friend were leaving but i forgot something in a class room. when i got back from getting it i found my friend being held up by someone with a penknife. some of the teachers tried grabbing him but he got away. ever since that day i felt so pathetic that i didn't do anything from being scared so i took up several martial arts and even practiced some sword arts (for meditation not for combat) to help and now ever since doing that i see everything as a weapon for self-defense not to say that i don't have any weapons in my house i do but they're all blades BUT i know how to use all of them confidently. i even at times wear weighted gloves when i go out so that i'll have some help if i ever do run into trouble. my whole life i've never once thought how much safer my life would be with a gun even though the gun rate is increasing aswell as the murder rate due to guns. i trust myself 100x more than i'd trust a gun if it were me i'd rather carry nothing because unlike most with guns (now this is a guess correct me if i'm wrong) i've been trained through martial arts to disarm and take a knife or gun off of someone without using a lot of effort. i mean at the end of the day this thread is here to help people learn self defense and that means EVERYONE. most people can't afford or are in a country that has banned guns so for all of them we need to address hand to hand combat more than just talk about what guns to buy and even for the members that do have guns it doesn't hurt to learn a few moves to saves your life.
In the end guns run out of ammo. knifes or hands/feet don't. not trying step on any toes but i just feel a LOT safer putting my life in my own hands rather than a guns.
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Old 10-12-2009
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Wait.... did you just say what I think you said?

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Originally Posted by Tread View Post
It would save much more life if more people would learn first aid than having a gun for home defense.
Are you saying that it would be better for me or a roommate to get shot, stabbed, etc and for me to know how to save her life rather than for me to own a firearm and kill the intruder before he can do anything? -_- >.> <.<
I wanted to say that a lot of people die every day by accidents, heart attack, apoplectic stroke, allergic shock and so on, because folks around don't do anything helpful. And I doubt that there are many cases where a home defence weapon saved life.

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I dunno, ask them the next time you meet one. They do it because they're stupid, poor, an asshole or who knows.
Only met once people who killed other in a drug gang fight, but didn't have something to do with them or talked much with them, but they had a clear financial motive.

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Well, I own two fire extinguishers, have a gas mask and was trained for first aid and CPR, so.... your point?
Exemplary! Didn't expect this.
I thought CPR is part of first aid, nevermind. Many learn it only once in life forget it fast and don't know what to do in a serious situation, but your training is probably not many years ago, so you're able to execute it.
By a fire, most people suffocate from smoke while sleeping, but I guess you have smoke detectors as well.

I find it unnecessary to prepare against unlikely risks, like meteors, terrorism, home invasions or bloodthirsty Thief's (unless you life at a place where this is not the exception). And the most forget that driving by car, working in the garden, doing sport or getting infected from by other human has a multiple higher risk.

If you want to prepare for everything, it's OK. In my opinion overdone, but no offense here. I myself overdo it with personal information's on the internet, being paranoid in giving info or pic's away.

I only want to understand why so many justify an extra big calibre weapon with home defence. For me it implies a little guilt for owning it. They have it cause they say they need it (and I don't see the need), and not cause they want to have it.


@SweetCharmer
Makes sense and I prefer this too, but in the US too many people have already guns, and disarming works only if you are close enough.
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Old 10-12-2009
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I only want to understand why so many justify an extra big calibre weapon with home defence. For me it implies a little guilt for owning it. They have it cause they say they need it (and I don’t see the need), and not cause they want to have it.
Why should I feel guilt for having something(whether I want or need it)? That is like asking "You have 2 perfectly good feet. Why do you need a car?"

Mr. Tread I would like to ask you a couple questions:

1) Do you place such little value on your life that you would rather not own an efficient weapon with excellent standoff?

2) If someone broke into your house, can you tell if they were a rapist, serial killer, robber etc.?

3) Are you sure enough of a criminals intentions that you would trust that he would want to only steal your belongings and nothing more?

4) What would you do if a psychotic person broke into your house and started threatening you or your family?

5) Do you live in Europe?
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And I doubt that there are many cases where a home defence weapon saved life.
You could not be more wrong about that. There is a plethora of recorded cases where weapons have saved people from rape, murder, physical abuse within the family home. I will post some later.
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But I don't know how it is in a county where nearly every criminal is armed with guns.
An ambush at military, war or on the street is different and can happens, but at your home? And if someone creates an ambush at your home you're dead before you notice anything.
Not every criminal is armed with a gun. Alot more crimes are committed with knives and bludgeoning weapons nowadays.


You misinterpreted what I was trying to convey with the whole "ambush" thing. I was trying to bring the point across that you should always have a back up plan. Locks, while useful, won't stop a determined criminal. All they do is buy you time to ready yourself. There is only so much you can do defensively before you have to go on the offense. Should I go on the offense, I would like to have a weapon that I can easily reach out and touch someone with rather than having to get up close to use a weapon.

Saying that locks are good enough seems rather shortsighted. Afterall, if locks did such a good job, we would not have to worry about home invasions. Having a weapon at home is like having an insurance policy; It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
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Old 10-12-2009
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Only in Indiana... Some genius thought it would be a good idea to have a "2 for 1." One bar has a "Country & Western" theme and the other is a Hip Hop Club that also books heavy metal bands. Needless to say it makes the 11 o'clock news all the time. Some of the Pacers and Colts hang out there as well. Most incidents happen in the parking lot--the bar is in a very bad part of Indy. I went there once with my "ex" and I was "carrying."

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Old 10-13-2009
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Question Sleep Walking Security

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Originally Posted by Tread View Post
By a fire, most people suffocate from smoke while sleeping, but I guess you have smoke detectors as well.

Yes, we have fire detectors but I also have something else on my side. I guess its a rare or possibly some sort of a lucky disorder or malfunction of my brain but my subconscious/unconsciousness takes control of my body when I'm sleeping. I can be completely unconscious or simply asleep and people tell me I get up and walk around, respond to questions, do things, etc (sleep walking). I wake up and my roommates will tell me I got up and did something or said something and I'll say, "no I didn't". My subconscious must be responding to questions or incidents for me while I'm "out". It's weird. Anyway, what I'm getting at is one day I was in an accident and completely knocked unconscious but then I got up and got myself to safety. My friends watched this happen and told me what I did when I finally "came to". There is no way I could have been conscious from such an impact to the head. My point is that I have some sort of natural security system where if I'm in danger and unconscious or asleep, my body takes control and does stuff for me. I believe that if we had a fire and there was smoke or if I was attacked while sleeping, that my subconscious will defend me or get me to safety. I'm not willing to test that theory but strongly believe it might be true. I guess that would be the best self defense weapon anyone could have.
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Old 10-13-2009
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My point is that I have some sort of natural security system where if I'm in danger and unconscious or asleep, my body takes control and does stuff for me. I believe that if we had a fire and there was smoke or if I was attacked while sleeping, that my subconscious will defend me or get me to safety. I'm not willing to test that theory but strongly believe it might be true. I guess that would be the best self defense weapon anyone could have.
Animals have a "higher" sense of danger. I'm sure it can exist to different degrees in humans as well. One night a while back (April 2008 I think) my two cats were going crazy running around and meowing and the dog was panting and pacing all over the house. At about 3AM I woke up to a low rumble and then the whole house started rattling and shaking--it was an earthquake. I had never been in one so at first I thought it might have been a tornado or a plane crash or something. Anyway, the cats and the dog could tell something was wrong several hours before it happened. I think people can have that ability too.

We also had a german shepard that could predict storms. You could tell if something was going to be really bad--like a tornado, by watching her. Same kind of "pacing" and whining. She also was a good watchdog!

That's great to have that ability. I think I have something like it too--but not as much.

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Old 10-13-2009
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Not every criminal is armed with a gun. Alot more crimes are committed with knives and bludgeoning weapons nowadays.
Got it.

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Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
You misinterpreted what I was trying to convey with the whole "ambush" thing. I was trying to bring the point across that you should always have a back up plan. Locks, while useful, won't stop a determined criminal. All they do is buy you time to ready yourself. There is only so much you can do defensively before you have to go on the offense. Should I go on the offense, I would like to have a weapon that I can easily reach out and touch someone with rather than having to get up close to use a weapon.
Yes I did.

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Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
Saying that locks are good enough seems rather shortsighted. Afterall, if locks did such a good job, we would not have to worry about home invasions. Having a weapon at home is like having an insurance policy; It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
I don’t worry about home invasions, but it has nothing to do with the locks. I even don’t worry if the door is wide open when I’m at home. I really rarely heard of violent robbery and real harm to someone in combination even less.

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You could not be more wrong about that. There is a plethora of recorded cases where weapons have saved people from rape, murder, physical abuse within the family home. I will post some later.
I would like to hear some, and I if a threat or action with an improved weapon, pepper spray or the weapon they carry for self defence had done the same success. I don’t see the “need” for weapons that blow elephants away or rifles for home defence.

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Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
Why should I feel guilt for having something(whether I want or need it)? That is like asking "You have 2 perfectly good feet. Why do you need a car?"
I don’t know why you should, I even don’t know if you own one.
For me it sounds like an excuse to have a big home defence weapon, cause I don’t see the need. Maybe you can change that with the examples you want to post.
I have a car because I would walk 14 hours or 4 hours a day to get to work, depending where (changes sometimes). I need 1 hour to get one way to the city. And I don’t have to carry things I buy.

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Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
1) Do you place such little value on your life that you would rather not own an efficient weapon with excellent standoff?
I don’t place a little value on my life, but I don’t own or ever touched a real gun, only paintball, airgun and things like this. You don’t have to own a gun if you put a vale on life. Some would even think complete the opposite.

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Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
2) If someone broke into your house, can you tell if they were a rapist, serial killer, robber etc.?
I can’t, but I guess in nearly 90% it is a robber, in 5% its family, house mates or friends, and in 5% it’s a stalker.

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Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
3) Are you sure enough of a criminals intentions that you would trust that he would want to only steal your belongings and nothing more?
For robbers 99%, except they want to rob me for ransom or my organs, but not here and not at my home.

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4) What would you do if a psychotic person broke into your house and started threatening you or your family?
I can’t say, I never was in a similar situation. Depends on the way of psychotic, the awareness, kind of threatening, my possibilities and what’s the best or/and fastest way to get out of it with the smallest harm to my family and me.
But projectile weapons could also hit my family, even a well trained SWAT-team or whatever can’t do this without risk, for my family, at close gun combat.

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5) Do you live in Europe?
My irrational paranoia.
From statements I have given in this forum and other info here it is supposable that I have something to do with Europe.
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Old 10-13-2009
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Smile "Jesus is Watching You" (joke)

A burglar broke into a house one night. He shined his flashlight around, looking for valuables, and when he picked up a CD player to place in his pack, a strange, disembodied voice echoed from the dark saying, "Jesus is watching you."

He nearly jumped out of his skin, clicked his flashlight out, and froze. When he heard nothing more after a bit, he shook his head, then clicked the light on and began searching for more valuables. Just as he pulled the stereo out so he could disconnect the wires, clear as a bell he heard again, "Jesus is watching you."

Freaked out, he shone his light around frantically, looking for the source of the voice. Finally, in the corner of the room, his flashlight beam came to rest on a parrot. "Did you say that?", he asked the parrot.

"Yep," the parrot confessed, then squawked, "I'm just trying to warn you."

The burglar relaxed. "Warn me, huh? Who in the world are you?"

"Moses," replied the bird.

"Moses?" the burglar laughed. "What kind of people would name a bird Moses?"

"The kind of people that would name their Rottweiler Jesus."
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Old 10-13-2009
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I don’t see the “need” for weapons that blow elephants away or rifles for home defence.
Most people use medium to low power cartridges for sporting and self defense(Generally .30 cal/7.62 ranges are usually medium power and anything below that is low power.) Unless you own a rifle chambered for .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, 4 bore or 2 bore or a punt gun, your rifle, shotgun or hand gun is not going to stop an elephant. Rifles like the AR-15 can be tailored to the operators needs and fire cartridges that have a good compromise between stopping power and recoil. That is why they are seeing an increased use in home defense.

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I don’t know why you should, I even don’t know if you own one.
For me it sounds like an excuse to have a big home defence weapon, cause I don’t see the need. Maybe you can change that with the examples you want to post.
I have a car because I would walk 14 hours or 4 hours a day to get to work, depending where (changes sometimes). I need 1 hour to get one way to the city. And I don’t have to carry things I buy.
I own an M44 Mosin-Nagant and I primarily use it for target shooting and other recreational purposes, however it is also used as my home defense weapon. I don't have it just as an excuse for anything; I have it because it has a variety of uses; home defense being one of them.

You have a car because it is more efficient in terms of time, distance and practical uses, correct? I own a rifle because it is more efficient compared to OC spray and tasers because of the standoff distance which doesn't require me to get in within arms distance of an assailant to use it.

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I don’t own or ever touched a real gun, only paintball, airgun and things like this.
I behoove you to at least go to a range and shoot for a day. That way you can develop an accurate opinion of firearms.

Quote:
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I can’t, but I guess in nearly 90% it is a robber, in 5% its family, house mates or friends, and in 5% it’s a stalker.

For robbers 99%, except they want to rob me for ransom or my organs, but not here and not at my home.
Unless you know why someone is in your house, it is always better be on the cautious side. Especially if said person has forcefully uninvited themselves into your house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tread View Post
But projectile weapons could also hit my family, even a well trained SWAT-team or whatever can’t do this without risk, for my family, at close gun combat.
There is something that a wise man named Col. Jeff Cooper wrote called:

The 4 Rules of Firearms Safety

1) The gun is always loaded. (Even if you have just unloaded it, you still treat it as if it was loaded)

2) Never point the gun at something you are not willing to destroy.

3) Keep your finger off of the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

4) Be sure of your target and what is beyond or around it.

Mr. Tread. Alot of these risks can be mitigated with common sense rules like this. Training is key when handling firearms. Should you become proficient in handling a firearm, you will not have to worry about accidently hitting your family as things like this will make you more aware of what you are doing and how you are doing it.

SWAT teams are usually called in for a barricaded hostage situation, not home invasions.
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Old 10-13-2009
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Default Smith & Wesson Model 500

Has anyone fired this thing yet? whats your thoughts how was the kick?
massive or just a little kick. me i wouldn't want to fire that thing in the
first place for one thing i think its outlawed in the state of Massachusetts
the handgun is the

Smith & Wesson Model 500 .50-Cal. Magnum Is The King Of Handguns
worlds most powerfull handgun.
the bullet would probably go right threw the gun range sand and tire backstop.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSL View Post
Has anyone fired this thing yet? whats your thoughts how was the kick?
massive or just a little kick. me i wouldn't want to fire that thing in the
first place for one thing i think its outlawed in the state of Massachusetts
the handgun is the

Smith & Wesson Model 500 .50-Cal. Magnum Is The King Of Handguns
worlds most powerfull handgun.
the bullet would probably go right threw the gun range sand and tire backstop.
Yes I have. It has MASSIVE recoil and I was firing downloaded rounds. Even with the slightly less power, after 3 shots my wrist started hurting. It definetly fits the description of hand cannon! The only thing that I can think of that might have comparable recoil is this:
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Old 10-13-2009
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What worries me when i read this topic, is that how often crimes of an extreme nature seem to happen in america. This is just my thoughts, but surely if guns were illegal, sure you wouldent have one, but neither would the criminals. So crime would decrease. But thats just my 2 cents. Is there any Tgirl from the UK or elsewhere who needs to defend themselves on here? it would be interesting to find out how. as guns and knifes are illegal to carry in this country.
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Well that must have been nasty i will stick with my 357 mag a light to moderate recoil action revolver my weapon does have a kick but doesn't
come close to matching that. i use at the range 38 spc. semi wadcutters.
for target shooting light and plinking loads and also full mettal jacket rounds too for home defense i use 357 shotshells and 911 which ever comes first
my home phone does have a one touch direct 911 dial number but it takes
at least 5 minutes or less before they arrive its those 5 minutes i am worried about.
somebody trying to kick the door in or stuff like that it can happen
it hasn't happend yet but you never know when i do have dead bolt security
locks in my apartment where i live and a auto flood light but someone can forget to lock the entry door.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
Yes I have. It has MASSIVE recoil and I was firing downloaded rounds. Even with the slightly less power, after 3 shots my wrist started hurting. It definetly fits the description of hand cannon! The only thing that I can think of that might have comparable recoil is this:
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Old 10-13-2009
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Unlike most people here, I actually used to get robbed quite often when I was whoring in the big city. Most of the time I had my pants down, but a few times bad negroes robbed me up close and personal. One time in particular three young gangstas made their move on me in the stairwell of a large apartment building, in a real bad neighborhood. I was drunk enough to almost throw one of them over the bannister, but the liberal side of me gave up my wallet with the three dollars. The next time three negroes got me cornered in an alley, I negotiated the return of my wallet and credit cards. They got my cash. There were countless times violence could have been a solution, but I figure when you go downtown, sometimes you win, some times you lose.
I have a Colt.38 Detective special, small, and a revolver never jams. I also have a nice expandable Police Baton. I'd like to get a shotgun to complete my home protection package. Peace Out.
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Old 10-13-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSL View Post
Smith & Wesson Model 500 .50-Cal. Magnum Is The King Of Handguns
worlds most powerfull handgun.
the bullet would probably go right threw the gun range sand and tire backstop.
The biggest thing I've ever shot is a friend's .44 Magnum with handloaded 300gr rounds. That kicked pretty hard but was fun to shoot! Even in daylight you could see flame come out of the muzzle. The "normal" .44 Remington Magnum load uses a 240 gr bullet. I also shot it with a light "special" load (185 gr I think) and recoil wasn't bad.

I still prefer a 9mm, .40, .38 Special or .380 for defense. Maybe a .357 or .45 if you are experienced and can handle the recoil. My "ex" could handle my Beretta with no problem and she was only like 5'5" 130. Also the bigger the gun--the harder it is to conceal. You know Clint dosen't have to carry that thing around with him all day--he just returns it to the prop department when the scene is over! LOL!

For my home, a 12 ga works well. I have a standard Remington 870 that I got at K-Mart. I have added a pistol grip and a shorter barrel. My AR-15 would most likely go through the walls and kill the neighbors but it looks awesome!

I think a lot of ranges would ban the .50. I know Don's used to only allow up to a .44 factory load. No handloads. Sounds like it would be a "blast" to shoot!

If ever any of you are in Indiana or Michigan look me up.
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Old 10-13-2009
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Originally Posted by NCC-1701 View Post
What worries me when i read this topic, is that how often crimes of an extreme nature seem to happen in america. This is just my thoughts, but surely if guns were illegal, sure you wouldent have one, but neither would the criminals. So crime would decrease. But thats just my 2 cents. Is there any Tgirl from the UK or elsewhere who needs to defend themselves on here? it would be interesting to find out how. as guns and knifes are illegal to carry in this country.
The U.S. Supreme Court has overturned many gun bans because of the fact that banning guns does not lower crime. Banning guns remove guns from law abiding citizens. Criminals still find a way to get them. Banning guns would create the same scenario we had when we outlawed alcohol. It will generate crime, crime more vicious and hazardous than we have already.
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Old 10-13-2009
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Default criminals and such

One point that seems to be overlooked so far is that a lot of home break ins are committed by druggies
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Default using a firearm to prevent violence

In this country Mr. Tread someone somewhere used their piece to PREVENT a crime today. And yesterday it happened and will tommorow. These occurances are not reported. Happened to me twice a few years ago. Did I report it? Of course not. More then likely I would have been interrogated and treated like the criminal. This happened 15 years ago when I was younger stronger and more manly lol. In the first instance my wife and I went to a dept store to buy baby clothes for our new son. The store (Sears) had multiple entrances and we were on the far side of the building more around the back. My now ex wife was putting our son into his car seat while I was standing in front of the car smoking a cigarette. While there were cars on either side of mine when we parked, there was now a large van on one side and a pickup truck on the other. Being alert and scanning the scene I see 2 underpriveledged youths come around the corner of the building and immediately point to our running car and pick up their pace confering amongst themselves as they changed direction towards us. My wife still had her fat ass sticking out the door cutting me off from her and my son. I look around... Nobody here but us sheep or so it seemed to the two would be car jackers. As they got closer they were now out of site behind the van. I used this opportunity to draw my Ruger .357 Had it pointing right over the top of the opened car door . Told wife to hurry up. I then see the two pass the back of the van and immediately turn into the space between our car. They stopped short and excitedly when I thumbed that hammer back and they realized we were no easy victims and beat a hasty retreat. Now had I not been armed that day Mr. Tread what do you suppose might have happened to my family?
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Default carryingfor self protection

The second time I was alone at a large food store in the late evening picking up a few things on my way home from work. Since it was payday I cashed my paycheck at the store(with minmum $30 purchase). Taking my one bag I notice a middle aged man standing by the front windows of the store about 20 feet from me. As I start walking out I know he's following me. My car is parked about 150 feet away maybe the tenth car down the aisle. As I'm almost to my car I'm unzipping my jacket I can hear his pace increasing. I swing my jacket back and pop the retaining strap on my holstered .22 auto. He's now about ten short feet away. He sees this and immediately turns at a 90 degree angle and makes tracks. Now at that time in my life I was into lifting weights and martial arts. Hmm a 6'2" 220 pound man is no easy mark yet this criminal was willing to risk his own neck for that 600 dollars he knew I had. Desparate men do desparate things Tread, they arent all stupid. Had I not been armed with more then my fists and feet maybe I would have been stabbed or clubbed. Or shot who knows? In both these instances my pistols prevented crimes without firing a shot.
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Old 10-14-2009
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Originally Posted by NCC-1701 View Post
This is just my thoughts, but surely if guns were illegal, sure you wouldent have one, but neither would the criminals.
Unfortunately, this isn't true. If guns were illegal, only the criminals would have them as they do not follow laws. Only the law abiding citizens would be defensless because of their adherence to the laws that have been set forth.
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Old 10-14-2009
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I think a lot of ranges would ban the .50.
Most ranges that I know of have banned the .50 BMG specifically. However, they still allow wildcat .50 cals. Some guy had 20mm cases necked down to .50!
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Old 10-14-2009
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http://nonannystate.blogspot.com/2009_1 ... 9925460286


The Governator has just signed a law requiring that you now get fingerprinted before you can buy ammo.

Fuck you Arnold and fuck you DPRK(Democratic Peoples Republic of Kalifornia) legislators!


I think it's about high time I GTFO of this god-forsaken state.


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Old 10-14-2009
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http://nonannystate.blogspot.com/2009_1 ... 9925460286


The Governator has just signed a law requiring that you now get fingerprinted before you can buy ammo.

Fuck you Arnold and fuck you DPRK(Democratic Peoples Republic of Kalifornia) legislators!


I think it's about high time I GTFO of this god-forsaken state.


OMFG I couldn't believe that. That's a bull law if I've ever seen one.
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Old 10-14-2009
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Well here is a sad story but a true one as well, a coule yearsa ago
there were this couple man and women both married happily.
well any way they were upstairs in bed fast asleep one night
between the hours of 12 to 1 am suddenly the husband hears a noise
downstairs and somwe rumbling about which awakend him he get up
goes right for his service revolver a 38 spec. S&W snubnose he tells the
wife to stay calm and don't move.
finally he is standing at the top of the stairs and at the bottom of the stairs
was this black silhouette it was to dark to see who it was but by
blind instinct he pulls his weapon and fires!! down the stairs, killing who was
at the bottom. he went down to take a closer look it turned out to be his
16 year old daughter coming home late that night with her boy friend
her boy friend had just left dropping her off. he shot her right threw the chest killing her instantly
she was DOA at the scene.

which reminds me of the movie american gun if any of you saw it
that just the way it happend. but this was true they didn't charge him
with anything it was a terrible accident and she was in the wrong place at
the wrong time!.

which leave me with this all ways think twice before firing your weapon
you never know who might be at the bottom of those stairs
the farther had to be rushed to the hosiptal for shock
he turned in his revolver and promised never to pick up a gun again.

this was going back a few years but i had forgotten some of it
but i herd it happend again from another couple she was due to be married
with him and this women came home from work and she was shot accidently
by her due to be wed boy friend.
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Old 10-14-2009
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by
blind instinct he pulls his weapon and fires!! down the stairs, killing who was
at the bottom. he went down to take a closer look it turned out to be his
16 year old daughter
These are unfortunate incidents but could have been prevented through simple training. It doesn't cost much to go through a home defense class and you are taught proper engagement of a target and numerous other things. Even in the military, you are taught to issue a warning before you engage someone. It only takes a second to shout out,"Halt!" ,"Who goes there?" or "Identify yourself or I will fire upon you!"

Escalation Of Force training will help you to handle a situation without guns blazing. If you are going to be armed, take a class on how to properly use your weapon of choice; simple actions like learning how to properly handle a weapon and proper escalation and de-escalation of force and rules of engagement can save lives without ending them.

People need to understand that weapons handling is not like in the movies where you pick up a gun/knife/baton and suddenly you are an expert with nerves of steel. There are very real emotions that come into play such as fear and very real consequences that arise as a result of your actions. With proper training, you can overcome the stresses that might cause you to otherwise do something rash like firing without properly identifying your target.

If you choose not to properly train or go through the motions of proper weapons use, you have no business handling a weapon.
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Old 10-14-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
These are unfortunate incidents but could have been prevented through simple training. It doesn't cost much to go through a home defense class and you are taught proper engagement of a target and numerous other things. Even in the military, you are taught to issue a warning before you engage someone. It only takes a second to shout out,"Halt!" ,"Who goes there?" or "Identify yourself or I will fire upon you!"

Escalation Of Force training will help you to handle a situation without guns blazing. If you are going to be armed, take a class on how to properly use your weapon of choice; simple actions like learning how to properly handle a weapon and proper escalation and de-escalation of force and rules of engagement can save lives without ending them.

People need to understand that weapons handling is not like in the movies where you pick up a gun/knife/baton and suddenly you are an expert with nerves of steel. There are very real emotions that come into play such as fear and very real consequences that arise as a result of your actions. With proper training, you can overcome the stresses that might cause you to otherwise do something rash like firing without properly identifying your target.

If you choose not to properly train or go through the motions of proper weapons use, you have no business handling a weapon.
This is all well and good, but it's not happening. No training is required to own a gun. I found it ludicrous when California required training to buy mace but not a gun.
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Old 10-14-2009
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I also have a 12 ga Remington 870 if anyone should break into my home as well as an AR-15.
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Originally Posted by aw9725 View Post
For my home, a 12 ga works well. I have a standard Remington 870 that I got at K-Mart. I have added a pistol grip and a shorter barrel. My AR-15 would most likely go through the walls and kill the neighbors but it looks awesome!
I first thought you use the AR-15 for home defence as well. Nice to hear you don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
Rifles like the AR-15 can be tailored to the operators needs and fire cartridges that have a good compromise between stopping power and recoil. That is why they are seeing an increased use in home defense.
I totally forgot the US walls that are made of paper (exaggeration like to blow away an elephant). Why use weapons that go through humans and walls for home defence. That's a risk for uninvolved people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
I own an M44 Mosin-Nagant and I primarily use it for target shooting and other recreational purposes, however it is also used as my home defense weapon. I don't have it just as an excuse for anything; I have it because it has a variety of uses; home defense being one of them.
If you use it primarily for sport, I don't see it as excuse. To buy a rifle, that is usually made for longer distances than handguns, for the reason of home defence sounds for me like an excuse, or a big calibre guns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
You have a car because it is more efficient in terms of time, distance and practical uses, correct? I own a rifle because it is more efficient compared to OC spray and tasers because of the standoff distance which doesn't require me to get in within arms distance of an assailant to use it.
The difference is: I need something to travel time efficient, and no need for a big home defence weapon, in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
I behoove you to at least go to a range and shoot for a day. That way you can develop an accurate opinion of firearms.
I can't just go to a range and shoot different weapons.
Don't know what an accurate opinion of firearms should help. I'm sure I would have fun shooting some guns, I would also have fun to shoot with or drive a tank through heavy terrain, little trees or cars, I would have, and had, fun blowing things up or shooting with a bazooka. In my opinion there should be as less possibilities, that this can happen in public or home.

There are too many people who can not handle things accountably.(nearly) everyone has the right to handle loaded weapons at home, even they shoot through walls? You don't let everyone drive a car, unless they killed some with it. You have to prove your knowledge, responsibility and skills before you're allowed to dive freely.

But, my question's was about home defence and not firearms in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
Unless you know why someone is in your house, it is always better be on the cautious side. Especially if said person has forcefully uninvited themselves into your house.


There is something that a wise man named Col. Jeff Cooper wrote called:

The 4 Rules of Firearms Safety
...1;2;3;4;...

Mr. Tread. Alot of these risks can be mitigated with common sense rules like this. Training is key when handling firearms. Should you become proficient in handling a firearm, you will not have to worry about accidently hitting your family as things like this will make you more aware of what you are doing and how you are doing it.
Right! It could also be a person you don't want to hurt.
It seems like you and some other have the responsibility in use with guns, but that's not a precondition to use it and I'm sure many don't follow that rules or train enough.

You can never 100% sure at a moving target or about ricochet bullets from bones or objects, especially a family member is close to the psychotic person. Training and HP/SP ammunition can lower the risk, but it is still there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
SWAT teams are usually called in for a barricaded hostage situation, not home invasions.
The psychotic threatening/hostage situation wasn't that far away from SWAT, for a shooting example, or.

Last edited by Tread; 10-14-2009 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 10-14-2009
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In this country Mr. Tread someone somewhere used their piece to PREVENT a crime today. And yesterday it happened and will tommorow. These occurances are not reported.
And even more to do a crime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel View Post
Happened to me twice a few years ago.
...
Now had I not been armed that day Mr. Tread what do you suppose might have happened to my family?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel View Post
The second time ...
In both these instances my pistols prevented crimes without firing a shot.
I didn't want to discuss weapons for self defence or in general, but you ask me directly to it.

I can't say what would have happened. There are not many facts to build a clear picture about the situations. Not one of the three persons that walked in your direction has threatened you or your family. A violent potential or weapons wasn't visible either, expect by you.
You judge them to be criminal by their looks, age and walking in your direction. You should always be aware in suspicious settings, but it's not sure they were criminals. In the second case, if he watched you the whole time, and waited for you, he is supposable after your money.

If you want to say swinging around a gun on street keeps people away, if criminal or not, you are right.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimnaseum View Post
Unlike most people here, I actually used to get robbed quite often when I was whoring in the big city.
...
I'd like to get a shotgun to complete my home protection package.
You don't have to answer, but I like to know:
Are you ever violent or by threatening robed while being at home?
Why do you want an additional shotgun to complete home protection?
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