Why do some of you guys see transwomen as second class?

[british_boy]

Browsing through some of the posts and polls here, I've noticed that some (by no means all!) of you guys seem to see t-girls as somehow second class - i.e. a bit of elicit and dirty fun and a walk on the wild side before you run back to the genetic girls. In other words, you don't seem to view them as the rounded human beings they are - someone you could have a long and fulfilling relationship with.

Why is this?

[Bionca]

Hope you get some responses. I have a theory or two, but I'm curious what the guys have to say about it.

[franalexes]

Originally Posted by british_boy

In other words, you don't seem to view them as the rounded human beings they are -
Why is this?

Rounded !
I've got curves in places where some girls don't even have places!

[novicetgirllover]

It's down to kids and worries about society perceiving them as gay isn't it. Theres an older guy I know who wants a serious relationship but he has no luck because of his age. He spent most of his life worrying about the stigma and married twice to genetic girls, now he's finally accepted who he is and wishes he'd done it when he was young. Half of these guys will be like him when they're old. Thing is i'd happily marry a transwoman now and go for surrogacy/adoption instead but no luck yet- try finding one who wants a serious relationship and isn't halfway around the world.

On a side note I see g girls as second best, guys as third best, lol.

[rockabilly]

LOL Fran!! I laughed so hard i'm crying. :D

To give an honest answer ... i don't know why. Maybe some men view tg's a sexual outlet . I think it boils down to ignorance , i learned alot by joining this forum about what these women go through day to day and i respect them.
From discrimination to the violence these women face , they deserve respect and understanding. I don't know if i answered the question but i know that i respect and love these women. This forum educates as well as stimulates .

[PI_Monger]

I don't distinguish between LB's and GG's. Love them both and consider both to be female. If anything, I respect LB's more because of the hardships, prejudice and scorn many of them deal with even from their own families. To go through all of that drama in order to remain true to their own identity is truly admirable.

Originally Posted by british_boy

Browsing through some of the posts and polls here, I've noticed that some (by no means all!) of you guys seem to see t-girls as somehow second class - i.e. a bit of elicit and dirty fun and a walk on the wild side before you run back to the genetic girls. In other words, you don't seem to view them as the rounded human beings they are - someone you could have a long and fulfilling relationship with.

I can't speak for others but I don't see transwomen that way at all. If you read my posts and check out my background you'll see that's not why I'm here.

For me it simply comes down to meeting the right person someday.

[The Conquistador]

I don't but I can see how some other members might think so. I think alot of posts like the ones you are referring to are started by some who are new here and might be still in that "discovery phase" when they find out about transsexuals. For others it seems, some of it goes back to the "I've never seen anything like this and I am intrigued but since they weren't born with a vag, they aren't real women and I can justify my actions since they are neither man nor woman" mentality.

It is an offshoot of that college bro/douchebag self-centered behavior and the failure to recognise anyone outside of their Monkeysphere*. That and any predjudices they have will keep them from going any further than whacking or sex.



*What is the Monkeysphere? http://www.cracked.com/article_14990...keysphere.html


Did I answer your question? If not, feel free to smack me in the head with a tire iron...

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by Bionca

Hope you get some responses. I have a theory or two, but I'm curious what the guys have to say about it.

BIONCA:

It requires independent thought, as opposed to group think.

It requires time away from sex pursuit, alcohol, sports, and friendships in off hours to think about anything.


Piece,


TAL

[JonFrum]

This is a porn forum - what were you expecting?

[EdwardSinclair]

Erm, this may be a little sad, but I have actually never seen any LBs in real life!! Although yes, I have to agree it takes a lot of courage to assume this kind of relationship. Unless she is extremely passable, as in she is really like a woman, I mean I wouldn't be scared to walk around with Ladyboy Emma for instance, but there are others out there (not quoting names) that I would freak out if I had to bring them home.

Shallow? Well, maybe so, nobody is perfect... btw I have the same reaction to any woman, if they are ugly and I don't know them they normally get the boot (some women that I happened to find to be unattractive in the past actually turn out to be really nice later, once I know them )!

Let's face it many young men don't have the courage to assume any relationship, and when they do sometimes it's because they are cornered... this is not new, you know this!!

You can't expect the same men who have this attitude towards women all their lives, to change once they start dating LBs, a player is always a player... you can always trust them to be dishonest!

[shadows]

Originally Posted by british_boy

Browsing through some of the posts and polls here, I've noticed that some (by no means all!) of you guys seem to see t-girls as somehow second class - i.e. a bit of elicit and dirty fun and a walk on the wild side before you run back to the genetic girls. In other words, you don't seem to view them as the rounded human beings they are - someone you could have a long and fulfilling relationship with.

Why is this?

Sometimes I believe that they just think with the head between their legs rather than the one above their shoulders.

Myself, I certainly do not view them as second-class at all. They are women, and fellow human beings, so they deserve to be treated as such.

[horizontal]

i guess the youngsters are experimenting and see everything that looks female as a challenge, and thats great

the slightly older are likely to have gone down route normal because the chance to meet their fantasy didnt exist

the older still may get to the point where they cant live their lie any longer but the opportunity has to be there

but we have to separate porn from reality and i see no point discussing attitudes in relation to porn - fantasy is what you want it to be.

attitudes to reality depend entirely on opportunity and i am lucky to have the opportunity and to have met some fabulous people in london. i see them as people, and people i know well, and they have names and personalities and what is betwen their legs is not important anymore - but that is because i have got past the porn influence of my youth

but of course i had to actively seek them out, which is easy enough in london, and knew, once i had found them, i was in the right place emotionally. and now everything seems normal

if you spend all your life wondering, you will screw your head up. go and find out, but you will find out nothing if you just think of them as a porn item or an escort - find the real people.

[spike_40]

Originally Posted by british_boy

Browsing through some of the posts and polls here, I've noticed that some (by no means all!) of you guys seem to see t-girls as somehow second class - i.e. a bit of elicit and dirty fun and a walk on the wild side before you run back to the genetic girls. In other words, you don't seem to view them as the rounded human beings they are - someone you could have a long and fulfilling relationship with.

Why is this?

I agree there are many out there that are like this, and from a old male those fools make harder when trying to form a relationship, and I see and read from t/girls how this is so, and is very common in the intertainment field.
Take most of these from a group and they will not even open their mouths.
Again great post I will read as responces come in

[vedagyrl]

Originally Posted by JonFrum

This is a porn forum - what were you expecting?

I think there have been a number of good replies to this post. And, yes, this is a porn forum among other things. Guys can have trouble committing to a relationship no matter who the partner is and many will do the madonna/whore dance their whole life - thinking of a wife as being the "good girl", but still wanting the sexual fantasy girl (GG or TG) that they would never have the independence to bring home or out with friends.

Last I checked, strip clubs are still in business and don't screen for wedding rings at the door.

A man (not a boy) needs a lot of self-awareness and confidence to say "this person is right for me" and stand by it. It's more common that people (any sex) think "how will others see me if I'm with this person" as if their approval is going to be the key to happiness. It isn't. Know yourself and be brave enough to be known by someone who can appreciate you and give the same in return.

We can all hope for that. (And it can make the sex pretty hot too

[Creedence]

I can't speak for everyone here but I don't see them as second class, it takes courage to take the steps TS's do.

[suebone]

Second Class ????????????????????????
We all have classsssssss.
Sue b
(short&sweet)

[Konnor]

Originally Posted by franalexes

Rounded !
I've got curves in places where some girls don't even have places!

I would dearly like to map those curves. I assure you that they would be accurate and done with TLC

(Now waits for the onslaught from Fran)

[GroobyKrissy]

I think it probably just comes down to social mores and our willingness to contribute to them instead of changing them. Honestly, I think the next 10-20 years will see the TS community become as 'widely' accepted as the GLB community is today.

It just takes time...

[new believer]

Originally Posted by british_boy

Browsing through some of the posts and polls here, I've noticed that some (by no means all!) of you guys seem to see t-girls as somehow second class - i.e. a bit of elicit and dirty fun and a walk on the wild side before you run back to the genetic girls. In other words, you don't seem to view them as the rounded human beings they are - someone you could have a long and fulfilling relationship with.

Why is this?

I think your 'fishing' for dates. Trying to sound 'supportive' in a sense to curry favor from TG's.
I have seen a couple of idiotic posts, but they're from idiots period. Idiots always think of themselves first and all others are 'second'.
If you can be more precise on posts which 'supporters' have made, then I or anyone else can agree with you. But don't treat TG's as dummies. If your looking for 'dates' or friendships, just converse on an equal platform. No need to bullshit anyone.
Sorry if I offend you or anyone else out there, but most of us have gone through the experience of mind games. This is not the place.

[novicetgirllover]

Originally Posted by new believer

I think your 'fishing' for dates. Trying to sound 'supportive' in a sense to curry favor from TG's.
I have seen a couple of idiotic posts, but they're from idiots period. Idiots always think of themselves first and all others are 'second'.
If you can be more precise on posts which 'supporters' have made, then I or anyone else can agree with you. But don't treat TG's as dummies. If your looking for 'dates' or friendships, just converse on an equal platform. No need to bullshit anyone.
Sorry if I offend you or anyone else out there, but most of us have gone through the experience of mind games. This is not the place.

You are sooooooooooooooo wrong.

[tslust]

Why do some of you guys see transwomen as second class?

Because guys suck, period!

[british_boy]

Originally Posted by new believer

I think your 'fishing' for dates. Trying to sound 'supportive' in a sense to curry favor from TG's.
I have seen a couple of idiotic posts, but they're from idiots period. Idiots always think of themselves first and all others are 'second'.
If you can be more precise on posts which 'supporters' have made, then I or anyone else can agree with you. But don't treat TG's as dummies. If your looking for 'dates' or friendships, just converse on an equal platform. No need to bullshit anyone.
Sorry if I offend you or anyone else out there, but most of us have gone through the experience of mind games. This is not the place.

I can see why you might think that, as cynical as it is, but you're wrong. As many people here know, I'm in a serous relationship with a TS, and my question came from my real dismay at some of the posts on this site. If you really want me to quote I will, but if you take a look at posts such as "What type of relationship do you want with a shemale?" (I paraphrase), you'll see what I mean. It might not be outrightly insulting, but the amount of times I see the phrase "real girl", or just "girl" put in inverted commas is enough to relegate transwomen to second class. Personally, I don't put inverted commas around my girlfriend.

I can say I have never and will never think of T.L's as second class, they are some of the kindness and bravest of people I have ever talked with and seen. They Rock:D

Originally Posted by tslust

Because guys suck, period!

will I am sorry you feel that way Tslust

[shadows]

Originally Posted by tslust

Because guys suck, period!

So why don't you tell us how you really feel?

[rockabilly]

Originally Posted by tslust

Because guys suck, period!

Did i do something wrong ? I only suck when and where you like it.

[jimnaseum]

As soon as you publicly date a transexual, count on losing lots of old friends.

I think its a private/fantasy for many , i guess each to their own, some may not want to act on their fantasy or they just want a fantasy to stay that way. Just personal choice i suspect , me i am not looking for a girlfriend , boyfriend or shemalefriend at the moment , sure some are just the same. Although i always considered this site as proactive ?

[new believer]

Back to your court Britishboy. As I stated, I apologize IF I offend anyone(who might be sincere), but I am a card carrying member of the Cynic Club International. I don't appreciate bullshitters (and no,I'm calling you one) or people with viewpoints on things they have little knowledge of, or have the knowledge but because their views/agendas don't match up, they'll lie or distort things.
Back to the topic ,......" If you really want me to quote I will, but if you take a look at posts such as "What type of relationship do you want with a shemale?" (I paraphrase), you'll see what I mean. It might not be outrightly insulting, but the amount of times I see the phrase "real girl", or just "girl" put in inverted commas is enough to relegate transwomen to second class. "

I will look up that one reference and if it as you say , I hope it's in the vast MINORITY. But if you also include 'real girl' or 'girl' , That's just from the mouths of babes. (meaning uneducated). When first 'exposed' to the world of TG's I also did not know how or to what 'title' I should address them to.
Maybe your only 'offense' ,in my view of your post, is that your too sensitive. But don't alter that if you are. Many GG's and TG's like that in a guy.
PS I didn't pick on you because your British(or are you). I respect the Brits and hope America will alsways be in her cornor. Sorry for the slaps our 'president' gave your Country. Wish I could slap him back for you.

[Jenae LaTorque]

GIGO
Garbage In - Garbage Out

Everyone's mindset is composed of the billions of pieces of data that comprise their life experiance. It is to be hoped for that members of this forum will recieve positive data here concerning this issue. Hopefully, in time, they will improve their mindsets from reading threads like this. We cannot condemn them for being where they are at any stage in their development. We can only help them to broaden their world view, while keeping in mind that it is harder for some to change and grow; it all depends on how much garbage there is to obstruct the path to harmony with others.

[JodieTs]

Originally Posted by british_boy

Browsing through some of the posts and polls here, I've noticed that some (by no means all!) of you guys seem to see t-girls as somehow second class - i.e. a bit of elicit and dirty fun and a walk on the wild side before you run back to the genetic girls. In other words, you don't seem to view them as the rounded human beings they are - someone you could have a long and fulfilling relationship with.

Why is this?

Fears,
internal self questioning fears
fears of being categorised by others
fear of her being "read" & you're association with her leading to other peoples views on you changing
used to be a man
hidden dirty little secret
An easy fuck {that bit as a generalisation is true}
leading onto: fear of her fidelity
fear of intro'ing her to your parents
fear of long term relationship stability / viability as surgeries occur...she is changing


Also,
Almost all of us are unstable to a large degree
deranged, its just a question of how deranged we are.
And do you really want to buy into that, long term?

Trans are on the margins of most societies
Do you really want to join that?

Hot now...but what will I be like in 40 years time?

Objectified sexually by the media...Not taken as a serious option re as a long term partner. so any wonder people get conditioned.


Oh, & we can't drop babies
thats a bit of a bigee for most long term relationships

[JodieTs]

Originally Posted by EdwardSinclair

Erm, this may be a little sad, but I have actually never seen any LBs in real life!!

Really?
You seem really sure of that.
We walk among you (in a scary voice-over)

[JodieTs]

Originally Posted by EdwardSinclair

Unless she is extremely passable, as in she is really like a woman,

Grrrrrrr.......

[JodieTs]

Originally Posted by jimnaseum

As soon as you publicly date a transexual, count on losing lots of old friends.

Um, thats Transsexual {bit of an issue that one }


Depends if she "passes" or not, really.

[suebone]

Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorque

GIGO
Garbage In - Garbage Out

Everyone's mindset is composed of the billions of pieces of data that comprise their life experiance. It is to be hoped for that members of this forum will recieve positive data here concerning this issue. Hopefully, in time, they will improve their mindsets from reading threads like this. We cannot condemn them for being where they are at any stage in their development. We can only help them to broaden their world view, while keeping in mind that it is harder for some to change and grow; it all depends on how much garbage there is to obstruct the path to harmony with others.

Love your reply.
I love my curves.
Hate people who categorise OTHERS !
sue b
(short&sweet)

[Hypo_Dude]

I don't treat anybody as second class.

I'm attracted to transsexuals for a number of reasons. I've only ever dated genetic girls, but I'm very open to dating t girls. But when it comes down to it, I may be young but I want to have children someday, my own children. This is something only a genetic girl can provide.

I don't think of t girls as a dirty little secret please, but in the long term I see myself settling down with a genetic girl someday, purely for having the standard cliche family. That's the honest truth, it may not be fair or correct, but it's just how I feel.

[DoryLee]

My opinion: It's a bit of conservative attitude that things have either to be fully male or fully female, anything else is just weird and a bit of a kink. Those who lose that little conservative attitude may start see ladyboys as the best of both worlds and a fantasy, which is another side to the story

-DoryLee

[Kuranyi]

For me shemales are just for good sex.I doubt that i could have a long relationship with one.I prefer real girls for love

[The_Void]

The above post is so much fail I think I may cry.

[tslust]

Originally Posted by LeeIII

will I am sorry you feel that way Tslust

Ya, I know that not all guys are total jerks, just most of them.

[Cocks with beauty]

Originally Posted by JonFrum

This is a porn forum - what were you expecting?

Yes, I'm afraid that is the reality of it, although I do understand that many members who want to share personal feelings and discuss other aspects may wish sometimes that it were not so. For myself, I enjoy the Porn aspect, and I do not really feel that I am adding to anybody's ' degradation ' by so doing, as my feelings and desires are my own, while I also really enjoy browsing through the Discussions and the Cut-and-thrust of the Chat Threads. Can't say I always approve of or agree with what I read, but I'll defend the right of the authors to express themselves ( well most of the time, anyway ! )

We are sharers in a wider experience of life.

[shadows]

Originally Posted by Kuranyi

For me shemales are just for good sex.I doubt that i could have a long relationship with one.I prefer real girls for love

They're all real girls.

[shadows]

Originally Posted by tslust

Ya, I know that not all guys are total jerks, just most of them.

Judging by your current siggie, we better try our best not to fall on that list.:D

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by Kuranyi

For me shemales are just for good sex.I doubt that i could have a long relationship with one.I prefer real girls for love

... and the post I was waiting for...

head+desk

[DoryLee]

Originally Posted by Kuranyi

For me shemales are just for good sex.I doubt that i could have a long relationship with one.I prefer real girls for love

If you enjoy the sex with both of them the same, then where's the big difference?

Unless you wanna have kids and live the typical family lifestyle of course...in which case your comment is understandable.

-Dory

[shadows]

Originally Posted by DoryLee

If you enjoy the sex with both of them the same, then where's the big difference?

Unless you wanna have kids and live the typical family lifestyle of course...in which case your comment is understandable.

-Dory

I am not sure if this could happen everywhere, but wouldn't adoption be a viable alternative? If the baby is raised in a loving and nurturing home, that to me would fit the criteria of a typical family lifestyle(because really, what is a typical family lifestyle anymore?)

[mytersh44]

I never have seen them that way. I have always preferred the to gg's. There are a few tg's here in the middle east.

[WudLuv2try]

I'm mainly here to get myself horny. You know, to jack off?

So for me, I see TS as a catagory in porn site.

You know, when you go to any porn site, you have lots of catagories and subcatagories?

Blowjob, Cum, facial, anal, interracial, gothic, gay, orgies, lesbian...

But that's just on the internet.

In real life,

There's no distiction between man, woman, and anyone in between.

[DoryLee]

Originally Posted by mytersh44

I never have seen them that way. I have always preferred the to gg's. There are a few tg's here in the middle east.

There's gonna be one more soon *wink wink*

(Israel here)

Originally Posted by shadows

I am not sure if this could happen everywhere, but wouldn't adoption be a viable alternative? If the baby is raised in a loving and nurturing home, that to me would fit the criteria of a typical family lifestyle(because really, what is a typical family lifestyle anymore?)

Heh, I'm with ya...but it seems most people would rather have their own kids than adopt, in which case they see GG as "real girls" as they're capable to bear children and basically be the "way god intended"(?), even though we all pretty much know that whole god thing is one big fancy hoax.

Thankfully not everyone thinks like Kuranyi and some people even prefer TG to GG. Different strokes for different folks (no pun intended ). As long as they're not calling us the devil incarnate, I'll work with it

-Dory