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  #51  
Old 11-02-2010
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Originally Posted by randolph View Post
I hope tomorrow is not the start of Armageddon.
There is lots of good people out there, they just need to VOTE!
That first cartoon funny.

In all seriousness, and not to open a can of worms, the Federal government needs to be downsized.
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  #52  
Old 11-02-2010
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That first cartoon funny.

In all seriousness, and not to open a can of worms, the Federal government needs to be downsized.
How true, how about starting with the military industrial complex. Imagine what the country could do if we weren't spending trillions of dollars on wars.
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  #53  
Old 11-02-2010
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If voting changed anything the establishment would make it illegal.

Stay at home. Don't bother to vote. Regardless of what party they belong to, they are all a bunch of crooks.
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  #54  
Old 11-02-2010
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What I meant was that the charge that the political appointees of Obama overruled "career attorneys" to have the case dropped is a hoax.

Anyone who wants to know the true story, based on full quotes that are contextual, would be wise to go beyond the Washington Times story to which you provide a link. That is a biased newspaper by any reasonable journalistic standards, and the headline of the story you linked to is proof. Why? Because it was "career lawyers" at DOJ who recommended dropping the case, and a federal judge who accepted the rationale for dropping the case. Obama political appointees only okayed the recommendation before it was passed on to the judge.

I suggest reading this Newsweek article for a fuller, less partisan, explanation: http://www.newsweek.com/2010/07/14/t...ew-acorn0.html
So rather than reading Washington Times' article, I should read the Newsweek article? In this article is
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Originally Posted by Newsweek
So how did the incident become a replay of the ACORN scandal? There's some resemblance between the two: an organization with unacceptable practices and a vague connection to the Obama administration (through voter registration drives in the ACORN case and Justice Department litigation in the Panther case) becomes a tool for critics of the White House to attack it as corrupt and illegitimate. But as in the ACORN case, the scandal is minimal (much of the ACORN hit has been discredited)?and the allegations against Obama flimsy.
Note the link for 'discredited' in the last sentence which is a link to Media Matters. This unbiased article uses Media Matters as a source? Do you know how biased Media Matters is? They receive millions from wealthy liberals, and funds from moveon.org and the New Democrat Network.

Rather than writing about some week correlation between the voter intimidation story and the Acorn scandal in an attempt to downplay both why doesn't he report these facts:
* After winning a case of voter intimidation against The New Black Panther Party, the Obama Department of Justice inexplicably dropped the charges.

* The direct ties between the NAACP and The New Black Panther Party.

* J. Christian Adams, a legitimate government whistle-blower who has testified that he was told by his fellow DOJ staffers to all but ignore cases where the defendant is a minority and the plaintiff white.

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Tracy, I feel that your points would be stronger if you stuck to substantive arguments about foreign policy, economic policy, and so on, and got away from the distractions that are pushed from both sides to avoid us, as Americans, having those important discussions.
I have commented about Obama's foreign policy and economic policy as well as health care and other major topics. But right now there's a pretty big election going on and I think the constant efforts of the left to illegally and dishonestly influence elections is also a major topic. There's ACORN who have been busted all over the country trying to register people multiple times or register non-existent people. There's the odd voter machines in Nevada that list Harry Reid as a default. There's even the White House who wanted to move the census from the Department of Commerce to the White House in a blatant attempt to influence future elections. The DOJ sent 400 people to Arizona, not to ensure that illegals do not vote, but to watchdog Arizona officials who are trying to ensure that illegals do not vote. Subversion of elections by the left is reaching epidemic levels and for the legitimacy of the government it has to stop.
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  #55  
Old 11-02-2010
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How true, how about starting with the military industrial complex. Imagine what the country could do if we weren't spending trillions of dollars on wars.
There's probably a lot that can be cut in the military as well as several other areas. Hell, there are whole departments of the government that could be cut. But obviously you wouldn't want to cut too much of the military.

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Stay at home. Don't bother to vote. Regardless of what party they belong to, they are all a bunch of crooks.
Excellent advice, and I've told it to all my democrat friends.
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  #56  
Old 11-02-2010
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Reid stays as senate majority leader... ughhh.
Pelosi is ousted... Yes!!! Good riddance b[leep].

Well one thing is for sure... The liberal free for all has come to an end!
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  #57  
Old 11-03-2010
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Reid stays as senate majority leader... ughhh.
Pelosi is ousted... Yes!!! Good riddance b[leep].

Well one thing is for sure... The liberal free for all has come to an end!
Well, lets hope all these clowns take off their makeup and get down to business to save the country. we are getting very close to the precipice.
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  #58  
Old 11-03-2010
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How true, how about starting with the military industrial complex. Imagine what the country could do if we weren't spending trillions of dollars on wars.
The Federal Government is far too intrusive about things that they have no buisness being involved with. For example education, enviromental protection, marriage, NASA, welfare, and now health care to name a few. The Tenth Amendment gives these matters to the individual States.
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The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
(BTW I am a believer in State's Rights.)
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  #59  
Old 11-03-2010
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So rather than reading Washington Times' article, I should read the Newsweek article? In this article is Note the link for 'discredited' in the last sentence which is a link to Media Matters. This unbiased article uses Media Matters as a source? Do you know how biased Media Matters is? They receive millions from wealthy liberals, and funds from moveon.org and the New Democrat Network.

Rather than writing about some week correlation between the voter intimidation story and the Acorn scandal in an attempt to downplay both why doesn't he report these facts:
* After winning a case of voter intimidation against The New Black Panther Party, the Obama Department of Justice inexplicably dropped the charges.

* The direct ties between the NAACP and The New Black Panther Party.

* J. Christian Adams, a legitimate government whistle-blower who has testified that he was told by his fellow DOJ staffers to all but ignore cases where the defendant is a minority and the plaintiff white.



I have commented about Obama's foreign policy and economic policy as well as health care and other major topics. But right now there's a pretty big election going on and I think the constant efforts of the left to illegally and dishonestly influence elections is also a major topic. There's ACORN who have been busted all over the country trying to register people multiple times or register non-existent people. There's the odd voter machines in Nevada that list Harry Reid as a default. There's even the White House who wanted to move the census from the Department of Commerce to the White House in a blatant attempt to influence future elections. The DOJ sent 400 people to Arizona, not to ensure that illegals do not vote, but to watchdog Arizona officials who are trying to ensure that illegals do not vote. Subversion of elections by the left is reaching epidemic levels and for the legitimacy of the government it has to stop.
When you can see past your anger and read what I actually wrote, instead of what you think I'm saying, perhaps we can have a conversation. Just don't attribute to me things I didn't write.

In the meanwhile, since subversion of elections is on your mind, why don't you tell us where you stand on the the Supreme Court's "Citizens United" ruling. Did you enjoy all the advertisements on TV paid for by undisclosed donors? Do you think that is "subversion of elections"?

Last edited by smc; 11-03-2010 at 10:40 AM. Reason: Fixed typo.
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  #60  
Old 11-03-2010
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Sigh, two years of gridlock.
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  #61  
Old 11-03-2010
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Originally Posted by tslust View Post
The Federal Government is far too intrusive about things that they have no buisness being involved with. For example education, enviromental protection, marriage, NASA, welfare, and now health care to name a few. The Tenth Amendment gives these matters to the individual States. (BTW I am a believer in State's Rights.)
Huzzah! The Feds should only be involved in national defense and the wellbeing of the country as it was originally intended. And I quote Article 1, Section 8 of the United States Constitution:

Quote:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
There are only 17 things that the fed has power over, which is mainly dealing with national defense and some regulation of our currency.
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  #62  
Old 11-04-2010
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LMAO!!! I had tears in my eyes laughing so hard at this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdES0GP0KhI
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  #63  
Old 11-04-2010
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Sigh, two years of gridlock.
Yes, unfortunately there will be gridlock, but at least they will be spending less
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Old 11-04-2010
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I'm hearing crickets. Were you going to answer this?
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In the meanwhile, since subversion of elections is on your mind, why don't you tell us where you stand on the the Supreme Court's "Citizens United" ruling. Did you enjoy all the advertisements on TV paid for by undisclosed donors? Do you think that is "subversion of elections"?
When I didn't answer a question of yours, TracyCoxx. you posted your "hearing crickets" comment (above) -- implying that I was avoiding answering. I explained that your question was unclear, and as soon as you clarified it I answered.

Now I've posed some clear, direct questions to you. You've been back to the thread since those questions were posted, but have skipped over them. Perhaps you'd like to retract the implication of your "cricket" comment?

Last edited by smc; 11-04-2010 at 09:41 AM.
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  #65  
Old 11-05-2010
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When I didn't answer a question of yours, TracyCoxx. you posted your "hearing crickets" comment (above) -- implying that I was avoiding answering.
Yes, after several days.

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Now I've posed some clear, direct questions to you. You've been back to the thread since those questions were posted, but have skipped over them.
Your impatience runs out after several hours. Sorry to keep you waiting but when I posted my last post it was from my cell phone. I save the deeper discussions for when I'm on my laptop.


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In the meanwhile, since subversion of elections is on your mind, why don't you tell us where you stand on the the Supreme Court's "Citizens United" ruling. Did you enjoy all the advertisements on TV paid for by undisclosed donors? Do you think that is "subversion of elections"?
I rarely enjoy advertisements, that is what my 'mute' button is for. But to restrict them is to restrict freedom of speech. As US deputy solicitor general Malcolm Stewart pointed out to the Supreme Court, the law would even require banning a book that made the same points as the Citizens United video. Once we get to this point you can clearly see that this is unconstitutional.

Annoying Citizens United videos doesn't hold a candle to "New" Black Panthers brandishing clubs and intimidating voters, or to ACORN's attempt at the highest levels to register voters multiple times plus register non-existent voters and dead voters, or to attempts by liberals to allow illegal aliens to vote, or to the fracking president trying to grab control of the US Census office!

And if those videos are so bad, what about the plethora of left-wing media outlets that spew biased news? Everyone complains about Fox News, but what about CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, New York Times, and on and on? And don't forget Hollywood with their vocal left wing actors and movies riddled with liberal politics. But hey... it's free speech.
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  #66  
Old 11-05-2010
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Obama says the voters just didn't understand what he was trying to do. Does anyone buy this? Or did the voters understand and whole heartedly reject it?
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Old 11-05-2010
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Yes, after several days.
The very next day, in fact ... but whose counting?

I have three sets of questions for you.

1. As I wrote in an earlier post, "I don't support the Democrats or Republicans." I believe that the Democratic Party is guilty of electoral fraud and manipulation in many instances throughout history, and I have no problem believing that Democrats (who, after all, serve the interests of a wing of the very same people served by the Republicans) do things to ensure votes go their way. Tracy, do you accept that the Republicans do things like this, too? You wrote earlier: "The DOJ sent 400 people to Arizona, not to ensure that illegals do not vote, but to watchdog Arizona officials who are trying to ensure that illegals do not vote." Whether that's true or not, do you accept that during the Bush administration government officials, acting for partisan interests, did anything like that.

2. Do you think one's ability to exercise "freedom of speech" should be dictated by one's level of wealth? Let's accept your premise about Citizens United. In the interest of ensuring the greatest amount of freedom of speech, do you support public financing of elections or some other way to ensure that everyone's voice can be heard so that those with the most millions to spend cannot drown out everyone else simply by virtue of having those millions? This is not a left-right issue.

3. In the context of "freedom of speech," do you support full disclosure of who funds political ads, whether on the left or right? It seems to me that the greatest freedom of speech is that which allows us a real discourse, together, as Americans -- something sorely lacking in our body politic today. Absent disclosure, it is difficult to know whether the voices we hear are genuine, and genuinely FOR what they purport to be for, or whether there is manipulation at play. For instance, if a corporation or corporate group that publicly supports tax credits for businesses that send jobs overseas funds a political ad (without disclosure) that accuses a politician of such support, that would be worth knowing, don't you think. Similarly, if a union stands to benefit from a certain outcome in the legislature in, say, one state and (without disclosure) funds an ad attacking a candidate in another state who has not voted as the union wishes, wouldn't it be good to know -- in the interest of encouraging a genuine public discourse in the context of freedom of speech?

These are not partisan questions. I hope you can step back from the vitriol expressed in your last post and consider these thoughtfully, in the interest of genuine dialogue. Otherwise, there's no point in continuing. You can have the thread and vent, and I'll stick to pictures of gorgeous girl cocks.
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  #68  
Old 11-05-2010
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Obama says the voters just didn't understand what he was trying to do. Does anyone buy this? Or did the voters understand and whole heartedly reject it?
Let's keep it simple. Since Obama thinks the people are too simple; let's just say the Democrats got their arse kicked.
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  #69  
Old 11-06-2010
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Yes, after several days.
The very next day, in fact ... but whose counting?
OMG, you're still whining about the crickets?

The question was asked here:
http://forum.transladyboy.com/showpo...1&postcount=32
It says "One week ago". Kind of vague...

And I'm hearing crickets here:
http://forum.transladyboy.com/showpo...3&postcount=43
It says "5 days ago". Yesterday it said one week vs 4 days, that's at least a 3 day difference so I called it 'several'. Happy?

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I have three sets of questions for you.

1. As I wrote in an earlier post, "I don't support the Democrats or Republicans." I believe that the Democratic Party is guilty of electoral fraud and manipulation in many instances throughout history, and I have no problem believing that Democrats (who, after all, serve the interests of a wing of the very same people served by the Republicans) do things to ensure votes go their way. Tracy, do you accept that the Republicans do things like this, too?
Not that I have seen. But if you point out an actual instance of republicans committing voter fraud then fine. I'll admit it if it's there. I am not a hard core republican, I am a conservative libertarian. I have a few problems with republicans, but they are the lesser of two evils. You've only known me while BO was campaigning and while he's been president so you only see me griping about him. If you knew me when Clinton was in office you'd see me complaining that his fling with Monica was not an impeachable offense and that the republicans were just wasting time and money over something that was going to go nowhere. During the beginning of Bush's term, you'd hear me complaining about him banning stem cell research and saying he's anti-science and too religious, and also complaining about this 'documented worker' bullcrap. When his father was president, you'd hear me fuming that the superconducting super collider was canceled right in the middle of construction and again declaring republicans as anti-science and declaring that from now on I'm voting for the engineer/scientist party.

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You wrote earlier: "The DOJ sent 400 people to Arizona, not to ensure that illegals do not vote, but to watchdog Arizona officials who are trying to ensure that illegals do not vote." Whether that's true or not, do you accept that during the Bush administration government officials, acting for partisan interests, did anything like that.
I haven't heard anything like that happening during the Bush administration, and I doubt it did since although illegal immigration was bad during Bush's term, it wasn't as bad as it is now. And the Bush administration wasn't nearly as hostile towards Arizona either.

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2. Do you think one's ability to exercise "freedom of speech" should be dictated by one's level of wealth? Let's accept your premise about Citizens United. In the interest of ensuring the greatest amount of freedom of speech, do you support public financing of elections or some other way to ensure that everyone's voice can be heard so that those with the most millions to spend cannot drown out everyone else simply by virtue of having those millions? This is not a left-right issue.
It's not perfect, but the alternative in unacceptable. America is all about free speech. Besides, although corporations have been restricted in the past, news organizations never have been restricted in reporting with their left leaning bias. How do non-wealthy conservative candidates compete against that? bts, George Soros just donated several million dollars for NPR stations to hire 100 reporters. I'm sure they will be fair and balanced.

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3. In the context of "freedom of speech," do you support full disclosure of who funds political ads, whether on the left or right?
Yes. Why not?
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  #70  
Old 11-06-2010
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Let's keep it simple. Since Obama thinks the people are too simple; let's just say the Democrats got their arse kicked.
That they did I've got my fingers crossed big time for the next election.
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Old 11-06-2010
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OMG, you're still whining about the crickets?

The question was asked here:
http://forum.transladyboy.com/showpo...1&postcount=32
It says "One week ago". Kind of vague...

And I'm hearing crickets here:
http://forum.transladyboy.com/showpo...3&postcount=43
It says "5 days ago". Yesterday it said one week vs 4 days, that's at least a 3 day difference so I called it 'several'. Happy?
I have an unavoidable work deadline this weekend that will keep me from answering your longer questions immediately -- although I will show you examples of voter suppression during the Bush administration by Republicans, including a case in New Hampshire that resulted in a guilty plea and prison time for an operative of the Republican National Committee.

On the "crickets" issue, how about dropping the insults ("whining"). If necessary, I can go to the moderator console and show you the exact time and date of the posts in question. My point in mentioning it was to bring up a broader point about civility in the discussion, which I have mentioned more explicitly in other posts.
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Old 11-06-2010
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........It's not perfect, but the alternative in unacceptable. America is all about free speech........
Really, Tracy? You should study your country's history. The USA is all about taxation without representation. That is how it all started.
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Reagan insider: 'GOP destroyed U.S. economy'
Commentary: How: Gold. Tax cuts. Debts. Wars. Fat Cats. Class gap. No fiscal discipline
By Paul B. Farrell, MarketWatch
ARROYO GRANDE, Calif. (MarketWatch) -- "How my G.O.P. destroyed the U.S. economy." Yes, that is exactly what David Stockman, President Ronald Reagan's director of the Office of Management and Budget, wrote in a recent New York Times op-ed piece, "Four Deformations of the Apocalypse."
Get it? Not "destroying." The GOP has already "destroyed" the U.S. economy, setting up an "American Apocalypse."
Jobs recovery could take years
In the wake of Friday's disappointing jobs report, Neal Lipschutz and Phil Izzo discuss new predictions that it could be many years before the nation's unemployment rate reaches pre-recession levels.
Yes, Stockman is equally damning of the Democrats' Keynesian policies. But what this indictment by a party insider -- someone so close to the development of the Reaganomics ideology -- says about America, helps all of us better understand how America's toxic partisan-politics "holy war" is destroying not just the economy and capitalism, but the America dream. And unless this war stops soon, both parties will succeed in their collective death wish.
But why focus on Stockman's message? It's already lost in the 24/7 news cycle. Why? We need some introspection. Ask yourself: How did the great nation of America lose its moral compass and drift so far off course, to where our very survival is threatened?
We've arrived at a historic turning point as a nation that no longer needs outside enemies to destroy us, we are committing suicide. Democracy. Capitalism. The American dream. All dying. Why? Because of the economic decisions of the GOP the past 40 years, says this leading Reagan Republican.
Please listen with an open mind, no matter your party affiliation: This makes for a powerful history lesson, because it exposes how both parties are responsible for destroying the U.S. economy. Listen closely:
Reagan Republican: the GOP should file for bankruptcy
Stockman rushes into the ring swinging like a boxer: "If there were such a thing as Chapter 11 for politicians, the Republican push to extend the unaffordable Bush tax cuts would amount to a bankruptcy filing. The nation's public debt ... will soon reach $18 trillion." It screams "out for austerity and sacrifice." But instead, the GOP insists "that the nation's wealthiest taxpayers be spared even a three-percentage-point rate increase."
In the past 40 years Republican ideology has gone from solid principles to hype and slogans. Stockman says: "Republicans used to believe that prosperity depended upon the regular balancing of accounts -- in government, in international trade, on the ledgers of central banks and in the financial affairs of private households and businesses too."
No more. Today there's a "new catechism" that's "little more than money printing and deficit finance, vulgar Keynesianism robed in the ideological vestments of the prosperous classes" making a mockery of GOP ideals. Worse, it has resulted in "serial financial bubbles and Wall Street depredations that have crippled our economy." Yes, GOP ideals backfired, crippling our economy.
Stockman's indictment warns that the Republican party's "new policy doctrines have caused four great deformations of the national economy, and modern Republicans have turned a blind eye to each one:"

I believe party affiliation is irrelevant here. This is a crucial subject that must be explored because it further exposes a dangerous historical trend where politics is so partisan it's having huge negative consequences.
Yes, the GOP does have a welfare-warfare state: Stockman says "the neocons were pushing the military budget skyward. And the Republicans on Capitol Hill who were supposed to cut spending, exempted from the knife most of the domestic budget -- entitlements, farm subsidies, education, water projects. But in the end it was a new cadre of ideological tax-cutters who killed the Republicans' fiscal religion."
When Fed chief Paul Volcker "crushed inflation" in the '80s we got a "solid economic rebound." But then "the new tax-cutters not only claimed victory for their supply-side strategy but hooked Republicans for good on the delusion that the economy will outgrow the deficit if plied with enough tax cuts." By 2009, they "reduced federal revenues to 15% of gross domestic product," lowest since the 1940s. Still today they're irrationally demanding an extension of those "unaffordable Bush tax cuts [that] would amount to a bankruptcy filing."
Recently Bush made matters far worse by "rarely vetoing a budget bill and engaging in two unfinanced foreign military adventures." Bush also gave in "on domestic spending cuts, signing into law $420 billion in nondefense appropriations, a 65% percent gain from the $260 billion he had inherited eight years earlier. Republicans thus joined the Democrats in a shameless embrace of a free-lunch fiscal policy." Takes two to tango.
Stage 3. Wall Street's deadly 'vast, unproductive expansion'
Stockman continues pounding away: "The third ominous change in the American economy has been the vast, unproductive expansion of our financial sector." He warns that "Republicans have been oblivious to the grave danger of flooding financial markets with freely printed money and, at the same time, removing traditional restrictions on leverage and speculation." Wrong, not oblivious. Self-interested Republican loyalists like Paulson, Bernanke and Geithner knew exactly what they were doing.
They wanted the economy, markets and the government to be under the absolute control of Wall Street's too-greedy-to-fail banks. They conned Congress and the Fed into bailing out an estimated $23.7 trillion debt. Worse, they have since destroyed meaningful financial reforms. So Wall Street is now back to business as usual blowing another bigger bubble/bust cycle that will culminate in the coming "American Apocalypse."
Stockman refers to Wall Street's surviving banks as "wards of the state." Wrong, the opposite is true. Wall Street now controls Washington, and its "unproductive" trading is "extracting billions from the economy with a lot of pointless speculation in stocks, bonds, commodities and derivatives." Wall Street banks like Goldman were virtually bankrupt, would have never survived without government-guaranteed deposits and "virtually free money from the Fed's discount window to cover their bad bets."
Stage 4. New American Revolution class-warfare coming soon
Finally, thanks to Republican policies that let us "live beyond our means for decades by borrowing heavily from abroad, we have steadily sent jobs and production offshore," while at home "high-value jobs in goods production ... trade, transportation, information technology and the professions shrunk by 12% to 68 million from 77 million."
As the apocalypse draws near, Stockman sees a class-rebellion, a new revolution, a war against greed and the wealthy. Soon. The trigger will be the growing gap between economic classes: No wonder "that during the last bubble (from 2002 to 2006) the top 1% of Americans -- paid mainly from the Wall Street casino -- received two-thirds of the gain in national income, while the bottom 90% -- mainly dependent on Main Street's shrinking economy -- got only 12%. This growing wealth gap is not the market's fault. It's the decaying fruit of bad economic policy."
Get it? The decaying fruit of the GOP's bad economic policies is destroying our economy.
Warning: this black swan won't be pretty, will shock, soon
His bottom line: "The day of national reckoning has arrived. We will not have a conventional business recovery now, but rather a long hangover of debt liquidation and downsizing ... it's a pity that the modern Republican party offers the American people an irrelevant platform of recycled Keynesianism when the old approach -- balanced budgets, sound money and financial discipline -- is needed more than ever."
Wrong: There are far bigger things to "pity."
First, that most Americans, 300 million, are helpless, will do nothing, sit in the bleachers passively watching this deadly partisan game like it's just another TV reality show.
Second, that, unfortunately, politicians are so deep-in-the-pockets of the Wall Street conspiracy that controls Washington they are helpless and blind.
And third, there's a depressing sense that Stockman will be dismissed as a traitor, his message lost in the 24/7 news cycle ... until the final apocalyptic event, an unpredictable black swan triggers another, bigger global meltdown, followed by a long Great Depression II and a historic class war.
So be prepared, it will hit soon, when you least expect.

I had to leave part 1 of this article out in order to get it to fit.

I thought Tracy might be interested in this. We will have to wait and see won't we?
That's right Tracy, keep your fingers crossed.
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Old 11-06-2010
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You wrote earlier: "The DOJ sent 400 people to Arizona, not to ensure that illegals do not vote, but to watchdog Arizona officials who are trying to ensure that illegals do not vote." Whether that's true or not, do you accept that during the Bush administration government officials, acting for partisan interests, did anything like that.
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I haven't heard anything like that happening during the Bush administration, and I doubt it did since although illegal immigration was bad during Bush's term, it wasn't as bad as it is now. And the Bush administration wasn't nearly as hostile towards Arizona either.
Remember, I support neither the Democrats nor the Republicans. I believe them to represent two wings of the people who oppress all the rest of us, and voting for them is a vote against my own economic interests.

That said, let me clarify about voter suppression. It seems as if you thought I was being specific about the Bush administration doing something in Arizona. I was not I only used your example to pose my question.

I will give you one non-Arizona example of Republican voter suppression during the Bush administration.

In 2002, Republican officials in New Hampshire attempted to reduce the number of Democratic voters by jamming phones. Professional telemarketers from a company based in northern Virgina, "GOP Marketplace," were hired to make repeated hang-up calls to to the telephone numbers that the Democratic state committee and the state firefighter's union were using for voters to call and get rides to the polls. By keeping these lines busy, the intent was to suppress the number of voters who could ask the Democratic Party for such rides. This voter suppression effort was undertaken in the interest of getting John E. Sununu, the son of George H.W. Bush's first White House chief of staff, elected to the U.S. Senate. Sununu won a narrow victory.

Four men were convicted of federal crimes and sentenced to prison for their involvement. There was a guilty plea by Allen Raymond to several felony charges in federal court in Concord, New Hampshire on June 30, 2004, which really brought the case to the public's attention. The prosecutor in Ramond's case indicated to the court that Raymond had been contacted about the phone jamming by "a former colleague who was then an official in a national political organization." Not long after, the Manchester Union-Leader, one of the most right-wing daily newspapers in the country, reported that the unnamed individual had a significant role in the Bush-Cheney presidential campaign." He was later identified as James Tobin, then serving as the New England regional director for the Bush campaign. He resigned in October from that post and in December was indicted and arraigned on two criminal counts each of conspiring to make harassing telephone calls and aiding and abetting telephone harassment.

Later, Allen Raymond was sentenced to five months in federal prison. His accomplice, Charles McGee, received seven months. Tobin refused to cooperate, and during his trial questions came up about who was paying for his defense. Ultimately, it was revealed that the Republican National Committe was paying for his lawyer.

Later in this case, after being convicted, Tobin was freed on appeal -- but on legal technicalities, not the merits of the actual case of voter suppression. Raymond Allen wrote a book that sold quite well, How to Rig an Election.

This is but one example of how both parties seek to undermine voting rights, Tracy. I can provide many more. One of the more common things Republicans do is to send letters to minority voters (yes, U.S. citizens who happen to be black and live in poverty-stricken election districts) disguised as "official" in some capacity telling people that if they show up at the polls they run the risk of arrest for any outstanding parket tickets, or must pass a reading test, or may be subject to imprisonment if they have moved, etc. Democrats pulled the same kind of stuff in the South before the Voting Rights Act.

It's despicable, but voter suppression efforts are certainly not the purview of one party or one administration.
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3. In the context of "freedom of speech," do you support full disclosure of who funds political ads, whether on the left or right?
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Yes. Why not?
I'm glad to hear that. Let's be more specific. Do you therefore support H.R.5175, The DISCLOSE Act, which was introduced in Congress earlier this year? Its official brief description is: "To amend the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 to prohibit foreign influence in Federal elections, to prohibit government contractors from making expenditures with respect to such elections, and to establish additional disclosure requirements with respect to spending in such elections, and for other purposes."

The "additional disclosure requirements" would enhance "disclaimers," thus requiring that those who provide the funds for ads take responsibility for them; enhance disclosures, requiring that the money be traceable to its source(s); require that corporations and organizations (including unions) disclose to shareholders and members how and where money was spent on political ads; and tighten the coordination rules that are meant to keep non-party entities from coordinating their work with official campaigns as a way around limits on spending.

In brief, as law the bill would require disclosure by donors supporting campaign advertising, and require sponsors to approve TV ads personally, as candidates are required to do. So, for example, a corporation, wealthy businessman, union ... no one ... could set up a group with a name like Americans for Sound Policy and then run an ad attacking a candidate without the funders being identified in the ad.

This bill passed the House of Representatives in June. A similar bill was blocked twice in the Senate by Republicans, who voted against invoking cloture to keep it from coming before the full body. The last such block, in late September, fell short by a vote of 59 to 39 (60 votes are required for cloture). All Democrats voted for cloture; two Republicans did not vote; all other Republicans voted to block the bill.

The Republican leadership argued that the Democrats were trying to "rig the system" to their advantage. How can there be an advantage for any one side in mandating full disclosure in a democracy, unless someone wants to keep something a secret?

Last edited by smc; 11-06-2010 at 04:58 PM. Reason: Fixed spelling error.
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I'm glad to hear that. Let's be more specific. Do you therefore support H.R.5175, The DISCLOSE Act, which was introduced in Congress earlier this year? Its official brief description is: "To amend the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 to prohibit foreign influence in Federal elections, to prohibit government contractors from making expenditures with respect to such elections, and to establish additional disclosure requirements with respect to spending in such elections, and for other purposes."

The "additional disclosure requirements" would enhance "disclaimers," thus requiring that those who provide the funds for ads take responsibility for them; enhance disclosures, requiring that the money be traceable to its source(s); require that corporations and organizations (including unions) disclose to shareholders and members how and where money was spent on political ads; and tighten the coordination rules that are meant to keep non-party entities from coordinating their work with official campaigns as a way around limits on spending.

In brief, as law the bill would require disclosure by donors supporting campaign advertising, and require sponsors to approve TV ads personally, as candidates are required to do. So, for example, a corporation, wealthy businessman, union ... no one ... could set up a group with a name like Americans for Sound Policy and then run an ad attacking a candidate without the funders being identified in the ad.

This bill passed the House of Representatives in June. A similar bill was blocked twice in the Senate by Republicans, who voted against invoking cloture to keep it from coming before the full body. The last such block, in late September, fell short by a vote of 59 to 39 (60 votes are required for cloture). All Democrats voted for cloture; two Republicans did not vote; all other Republicans voted to block the bill.

The Republican leadership argued that the Democrats were trying to "rig the system" to their advantage. How can their be an advantage for any one side in mandating full disclosure in a democracy, unless someone wants to keep something a secret?
Its obvious the Repubs are against this. They would lose elections.
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Could an American answer a question for me please... Why is it that people over there don't like the idea of having a national health service?

Our (UK) NHS service is something we couldn't live without and if the government said we had to pay for everything there would be riots.
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Could an American answer a question for me please... Why is it that people over there don't like the idea of having a national health service?

Our (UK) NHS service is something we couldn't live without and if the government said we had to pay for everything there would be riots.
You do pay for everything. It's just that you pay for it indirectly through your taxes.
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Old 11-07-2010
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although I will show you examples of voter suppression during the Bush administration by Republicans, including a case in New Hampshire that resulted in a guilty plea and prison time for an operative of the Republican National Committee.
Good. I have no stomach for voter fraud from either side.

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Really, Tracy? You should study your country's history. The USA is all about taxation without representation. That is how it all started.
Freedom of speech is in Amendment number 1. That is what I am referring to.

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In 2002, Republican officials in New Hampshire attempted to reduce the number of Democratic voters by jamming phones....
Ok, I stand corrected. It seems that republicans do attempt to influence elections. I still think it's far more rampant on the democrats side.

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I'm glad to hear that. Let's be more specific. Do you therefore support H.R.5175, The DISCLOSE Act, which was introduced in Congress earlier this year? Its official brief description is: "To amend the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 to prohibit foreign influence in Federal elections, to prohibit government contractors from making expenditures with respect to such elections, and to establish additional disclosure requirements with respect to spending in such elections, and for other purposes."
Yeah, I still say yes, why not?

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The Republican leadership argued that the Democrats were trying to "rig the system" to their advantage. How can there be an advantage for any one side in mandating full disclosure in a democracy, unless someone wants to keep something a secret?
I don't understand republicans' problem with this. And I suspect it's probably not a valid concern.

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Its obvious the Repubs are against this. They would lose elections.
Why?
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Could an American answer a question for me please... Why is it that people over there don't like the idea of having a national health service?

Our (UK) NHS service is something we couldn't live without and if the government said we had to pay for everything there would be riots.
Because for one thing we already have a system where people get health insurance through their employers, and 85% of Americans are happy with the way this works.

For another thing, to change the system to a national health service would require everyone's health premiums to go up like $2000/year and the result would be degraded medical service.

And for another thing, our country is deep in debt and cannot afford the national health care system that was enacted.
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SMC made the point, the Repubs don't want to reveal the vast amount of corporate secret funding for their campaigns. When the voters realize that most of the funding comes from BP, the chamber of commerce and the likes of the Kock brothers they may decide to vote for someone else.
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SMC made the point, the Repubs don't want to reveal the vast amount of corporate secret funding for their campaigns. When the voters realize that most of the funding comes from BP, the chamber of commerce and the likes of the Kock brothers they may decide to vote for someone else.
Ok, so if voters aren't going to vote for republicans when they see this, and they aren't going to vote for democrats when they see how much funding comes from George Soros and Media Matters and MoveOn.org and hollywood, etc, then who will they vote for? Libertarian?
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Ok, so if voters aren't going to vote for republicans when they see this, and they aren't going to vote for democrats when they see how much funding comes from George Soros and Media Matters and MoveOn.org and hollywood, etc, then who will they vote for? Libertarian?
You got it!
We need a third party that represents us, the working middle class.
I am fed up with both parties but I cant take the Tea Party. I understand the outrage of the Tea Party but they are clueless and pawns of the big guys. We need to impeach the Supreme Court Justices that voted for the corporate flooding of money into the election system.
We also need to change the election system so members of congress get elected for only one term of six years and cant run for reelection. This would eliminate a lot of this campaigning crap. If we don't like what they are doing during their six year term, impeach them.
We have to do something or we are going to lose not only our freedom but the ability to make a living.
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Ok, I stand corrected. It seems that republicans do attempt to influence elections. I still think it's far more rampant on the democrats side.
What is the basis upon which you "think it's far more rampant" among Democrats? Can you cite actual statistics?
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What is the basis upon which you "think it's far more rampant" among Democrats? Can you cite actual statistics?
I don't collect statistics and statistics can be made to show either side, but I do know that ACORN got nailed in 14 states in 2008 for voter fraud on the side of the democrats. And I know that liberals think they can get millions of votes if they can just get illegals to become citizens. And they aren't waiting. They're fighting against attempts to verify the citizenship of potential voters so that illegals can squeak through. These two things alone are not isolated incidents. They are on a multi-state scale.
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I don't collect statistics and statistics can be made to show either side, but I do know that ACORN got nailed in 14 states in 2008 for voter fraud on the side of the democrats. And I know that liberals think they can get millions of votes if they can just get illegals to become citizens. And they aren't waiting. They're fighting against attempts to verify the citizenship of potential voters so that illegals can squeak through. These two things alone are not isolated incidents. They are on a multi-state scale.
The way in which you write about Democratic-related "voter fraud" -- with such anger and vitriol -- and the way in which you acknowledge Republican-related "voter fraud" when presented with the evidence -- with terse, one-line sentences -- I believe speaks volumes.

The problem of those who are either in power or seek to be in power (Democrats and Republicans alike), and who have enormous financial resources at their disposal that people like you and I, Tracy, do not have, is a threat to whatever vestiges of democracy we may enjoy in this country. It should not matter WHO subverts elections as much as THAT they are subverted. So long as you cannot demonstrate equal anger about both "sides" seeking to take away the power of your one vote through some kind of fraud, it is difficult to see that your objections are not grounded in something more insidious. Why should it matter more that one side may be trying to get immigrants to vote than it matters that another side is trying to ensure that minorities (citizens of this country) don't get to vote?

One of the things that polarizes people in the United States on the left and right is that the 24/7 cycle of vituperative commentary from the left and right uses selective information to skew the debate. You, I believe, have been cheated by some of those commentators, because they made sure you knew that ACORN had been accused of voter fraud in 14 states in 2008, but they made sure not to tell you whatever because of those accusations.

I am no supporter of ACORN, but of truth and civil discourse. Did you know, Tracy, that in June of this year the Government Accounting Office (GAO) -- independent of the Obama administration and of the Republicans -- released a report on these accusations in 14 states?

The GAO report found that, in every one of those cases, complaints filed against ACORN with the Federal Elections Commission (FEC) were dismissed. The FEC is also not directly affiliated with the Democratic or Republican parties. The report also showed that four of six FBI investigations into alleged voter fraud committed by ACORN employees were closed due to lack of evidence. The two other investigations were also closed and referred to local and state jurisdictions.

The report detailed five cases in which ACORN employees pled guilty to misdemeanor counts of voter registration fraud, but the GAO stated that these cases did not allege any wrongdoing on behalf of ACORN itself or any affiliated organizations -- only the individuals. Did you know that ACORN, in fact, offered materials to local election officials that helped initiate the prosecution of these guilty individuals, because ACORN felt that they had undermined the proper training ACORN had provided them to register voters legally?

Again, I am not defending ACORN, but seeking the truth and encouraging you to direct your anger where it really NEEDS to be directed -- -- at anyone who usurps your democratic rights.

It is only my opinion, but it seems to me that you would want to get the widest possible hearing for your complaints about the government. Direct you anger appropriately, and recognize who is really at fault (hint: it's the people who own the wealth, not their politician lackeys, who are the real enemy, and those people support both sides to keep you thinking you have a choice), and you'll certainly get my ear for anything you want to say.

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Wall Street campaign donations to Democrats and Republicans. Something happened in October 2009. Health care bill?
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The problem of those who are either in power or seek to be in power (Democrats and Republicans alike), and who have enormous financial resources at their disposal that people like you and I, Tracy, do not have, is a threat to whatever vestiges of democracy we may enjoy in this country. It should not matter WHO subverts elections as much as THAT they are subverted. So long as you cannot demonstrate equal anger about both "sides" seeking to take away the power of your one vote through some kind of fraud, it is difficult to see that your objections are not grounded in something more insidious.
As I said before, I do not see a problem with corporate backers in elections. They exist on both sides. And what difference does it make? Liberal leaning billionaires and corporations sunk a fortune into this election for NOTHING because what it comes down to is not their money. It comes down to the voters. They are the ones who go into the voting booth and cast their vote, not the evil corporations.

When the liberals tamper with the voters, THAT's where I have a problem. When you're bringing in illegal aliens, that's tampering with the voter. When you're signing up voters to vote multiple times, that's tampering with the voter. When you're filling out default liberal votes, that's tampering with the voter.

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Why should it matter more that one side may be trying to get immigrants to vote than it matters that another side is trying to ensure that minorities (citizens of this country) don't get to vote?
Give these poor minorities a little credit. If they wanted to vote, no one is stopping them.

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One of the things that polarizes people in the United States on the left and right is that the 24/7 cycle of vituperative commentary from the left and right uses selective information to skew the debate. You, I believe, have been cheated by some of those commentators, because they made sure you knew that ACORN had been accused of voter fraud in 14 states in 2008, but they made sure not to tell you whatever because of those accusations.
I know CNN is biased. And I also know Fox News is biased. I used to watch CNN exclusively. But then when I started to wake up to the liberal lies I started getting my news from several sources. And I noticed more and more that liberal news sources just out and out lie more than anything else I've seen. So pardon me if I don't get my news from there. I think I've had a pretty good track record of telling it like it is, and predicting where things were going on the Obama thread so my news sources are probably not all that bad.

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The GAO report found that, in every one of those cases, complaints filed against ACORN with the Federal Elections Commission (FEC) were dismissed.
And why is that? Certainly some pretty damning evidence has been shown so there better be a good reason. I'll look into this when I get some time, but right now I have a computer to rebuild.
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Wall Street campaign donations to Democrats and Republicans. Something happened in October 2009. Health care bill?
How odd... it's exactly inverted.
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You can't have it both ways, Tracy. You can't admit there is voter suppression by both sides and then claim that the side you don't like can vote if they want to, no matter what might be done to keep that from happening. That's hypocrisy. And it's also hypocritical to state that adding votes to the mix that are or may be cast illegally is a problem that subverts elections, while implying by omission -- as you do again and again -- that subtracting potential votes does not subvert elections. If someone keeps a voter from voting, and someone else brings a voter to the polls and makes it possible for that person to vote even though not eligible, is that not the same subversion of your vote and how it counts.

Unless you can state unequivocally that anything that subverts elections, be it illegal voters or voter suppression or advertisements that lie but have no traceability as to who funded them, etc., etc. etc. -- then your argument is fallacious. And after many attempts, there is no value in challenging a fallacious argument. It is a waste of time.

I will continue to hold out hope that your interest is in truth and constructive discourse. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but not one's own facts.
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Old 11-07-2010
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You do pay for everything. It's just that you pay for it indirectly through your taxes.
I know, but say if you needed life saving drugs which are very expensive you wouldn't be able to get them would you? The NHS also gives us piece of mind as you know that no matter what (pretty much), you will get treated. Even people that are only here on holiday get treated for free iirc. Everyone is treated the same and has the access to drugs they may need.

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Because for one thing we already have a system where people get health insurance through their employers, and 85% of Americans are happy with the way this works.

For another thing, to change the system to a national health service would require everyone's health premiums to go up like $2000/year and the result would be degraded medical service.

And for another thing, our country is deep in debt and cannot afford the national health care system that was enacted.
I understand that, but if there was a shake-up of the rules it would be a lot fairer for everyone and there wouldn't be huge corporations trying to profit off someone's illness. Which I think is disgusting.

I often wonder how the american public let these corporations do what they do. They must spend so much money on propaganda.


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Old 11-08-2010
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You can't have it both ways, Tracy. You can't admit there is voter suppression by both sides and then claim that the side you don't like can vote if they want to
I did not say the voters in New Hampshire were suppressed. Are you saying they were not able to vote?

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And it's also hypocritical to state that adding votes to the mix that are or may be cast illegally is a problem that subverts elections, while implying by omission -- as you do again and again -- that subtracting potential votes does not subvert elections. If someone keeps a voter from voting, and someone else brings a voter to the polls and makes it possible for that person to vote even though not eligible, is that not the same subversion of your vote and how it counts.
Ah I see the problem. You somehow have the idea that there is a block of people who need to be escorted by a political party to the voting booth. I sometimes forget that people have these odd ideas. No that is not part of our right to vote. America assumes that if the people have the responsibility for putting our leaders in office that they can get off their lazy ass and put a check for a party or candidate. And if they are not able to make it there then they call whoever it is that gets their groceries and asks for a ride. The republicans in New Hampshire were not blocking anyone from going out and voting.

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Unless you can state unequivocally that anything that subverts elections, be it illegal voters or voter suppression or advertisements that lie but have no traceability as to who funded them, etc., etc. etc. -- then your argument is fallacious. And after many attempts, there is no value in challenging a fallacious argument. It is a waste of time.
While I have said before I do not support untraceable false advertisements or funds I believe they are canceled out by liberal media bias and lies and equally massive funding on the left which indirectly influence election results. And I'm sticking to my story that elections come down to the voter. You screw with the voter and you're directly tampering with election results.
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Old 11-08-2010
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I understand that, but if there was a shake-up of the rules it would be a lot fairer for everyone and there wouldn't be huge corporations trying to profit off someone's illness. Which I think is disgusting.
A huge corporation is not a synonym for evil. Corporations and small businesses are what drives our economy. Yes insurance companies make a profit, but so do doctors. They make a profit because someone has to manage the system that makes it possible for people to get medical treatment, and that someone provides a service. Is it disgusting that car mechanics make a profit off of other people's misfortunes? People are paid for the services they provide. If it was managed by the government then there would be no competition to keep prices low and to keep wasted spending to a manageable level. And again... we are maxed out in debt and cannot afford it. (Why does no one see that last sentence? Why is it completely irrelevant that there is a mountain of debt and all people can think of is what else to add to it?)

One way or another, whether it's through insurance premiums or taxes, people pay for medical treatment. Either insurance companies (aka evil corporations) receive a profit for getting you the medical treatment you need or a large portion of what you're paying through taxes is wasted on a one-size fits all government solution.
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I did not say the voters in New Hampshire were suppressed. Are you saying they were not able to vote?

Ah I see the problem. You somehow have the idea that there is a block of people who need to be escorted by a political party to the voting booth. I sometimes forget that people have these odd ideas. No that is not part of our right to vote. America assumes that if the people have the responsibility for putting our leaders in office that they can get off their lazy ass and put a check for a party or candidate. And if they are not able to make it there then they call whoever it is that gets their groceries and asks for a ride. The republicans in New Hampshire were not blocking anyone from going out and voting.
If you cannot see the equivalency between standing at the polling place and physically blocking the door and using some other means to, say, keep an elderly person from accessing the ride to the polling place that both parties offer on election day, then you have a serious blind spot.

The logical extension of your argument is that elderly people who are the victims of fraud over the telephone by those who convince them to share their personal information or to send them huge amounts of money -- a type of fraud that is a massive problem in the United States -- should simply have known better, and nothing should be done.

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And I'm sticking to my story that elections come down to the voter. You screw with the voter and you're directly tampering with election results.
Right. If someone figures out a clever, indirect, less visible way to suppress the voter, that someone is rewarded. How? Because people like you, by your own admission, decide to focus all your anger on the less clever.

In any case, our discussion is over, not because we can't agree, and not because the discourse isn't important, but because you seem too filled with anger and vitriol to have a meaningful dialogue. If it matters, I'll even let you say you scored all the points, even though I haven't been playing a game.

Ain't democracy wonderful? Let's enjoy it while it lasts. The people who take it away from us are going to be the ones who capitalize on the unwillingness of people to step back, take a deep breath, and really explore what is going on, rather than simply reacting to "facts" that are fed to them to serve a devious purpose. And again, as I've written time and again, that feeding comes from both wings of the rulers, equally.
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Old 11-08-2010
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From Michael Collins at "the money party.com"

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Here are the facts.

There is just one political party in the United States, The Money Party. There?s the Republican wing, we?ll call them the ?crazies?, and the Democratic wing, now known as ?the sleepwalkers.? They all work for the same paymasters, the financial elite who thrive on bubbles, scams, and endless war. If you don?t start from that assumption, you haven?t been paying attention.

Why would Obama listen to you or any other ?liberal? blogger. First, he?d think that you?re less than serious for assuming that he?d ever listen. There?s a greater chance that pigs will fly than any politician listening who rises up through this money drenched system. In case you have not noticed, nobody gets to be president unless they?re in the bag of big money.

Obama has continued bailouts, war, and the civil rights violations of the Bush administration. Those are his principles. Isn?t that a hint that he doesn?t care what liberal bloggers think? The president has even added a new wrinkle ? targeting U.S. citizens for assassination once he?s proclaimed them a ?terrorist.? Any 8th grader studying the Constitution knows that this is illegal. This reflects his principles ? selective death sentences for citizens without an arrest or trial. Talk about the tyrannical model of leadership.

Obama?s cabinet choices and other appointments showed his principles ? Summers, Geithner, industry flacks running regulatory agencies. His principles showed when he gave Wall Street a big bonus for screwing up the economy and driving the people down. His principles showed when he committed the nation to another quagmire.

He did a bait-and-switch. That?s why the Democrats lost the election. The people know a hustle when they see it. They know they?re in trouble. They know Obama and Company could care less along with the spineless Democrats who promised change and delivered nothing.
I hate to admit it but much of this seems to be true.
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A major factor in the rout of the Democrats was the senior vote. Seniors are very concerned about Medicare. Also many of the young voters stayed home in disgust.
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Old 11-08-2010
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A huge corporation is not a synonym for evil. Corporations and small businesses are what drives our economy. Yes insurance companies make a profit, but so do doctors. They make a profit because someone has to manage the system that makes it possible for people to get medical treatment, and that someone provides a service. Is it disgusting that car mechanics make a profit off of other people's misfortunes? People are paid for the services they provide. If it was managed by the government then there would be no competition to keep prices low and to keep wasted spending to a manageable level. And again... we are maxed out in debt and cannot afford it. (Why does no one see that last sentence? Why is it completely irrelevant that there is a mountain of debt and all people can think of is what else to add to it?)

Life/health and a busted car are hardly equal.
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Life/health and a busted car are hardly equal.
The principle is still the same though.
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Old 11-08-2010
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Could an American answer a question for me please... Why is it that people over there don't like the idea of having a national health service?
For me, it's a matter of having the freedom to decide for myself. In other words, I don't want some self-appointed genius in D.C. telling me that I have to get insurance even if I don't need it. I get my insurance through my job, thank you very much.
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Life/health and a busted car are hardly equal.
You're right. I'd rather have a sinus infection than a cracked engine block. Yes some medical problems are more serious, but many are not.
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