Not to spoil the illusion: But do any other t-girls relate?

[GRH]

I know that a fair amount of what is posted here is the objectification of transwomen, and I'm actually not going to bash that fact. I also know that many transgendered women end up working in the sex industry as a means of making income. But the images of t-girl sexuality is somewhat distorted by the rather one dimensional view that pornography presents. Surely, some transgirls are raging and exotic shecock sex fiends, but I think not nearly at the levels that many people fantasize about.

I say this for two obvious reasons and the first has been discussed with some frequency around here. Quite simply, taking hormones often has the effect of shrinking the girls penis, testicles, etc. This can also lead to a lowered libido, lower sperm counts, difficulty achieving erection. This is all pretty straight forward stuff that can be gleaned from the medical literature on hormone replacement therapy.

The aspect that I have seen considered much less frequently is the psychology of a transwoman. I myself and a pre-op or non-op, but more as a matter of cost than a desire to keep my plumbing in tact. SRS can run over a hundred grand, and quite frankly, even if I qualified for the surgery today and had the money in hand I would have to think LONG about whether I'd ever want to hand that much money over to a surgeon. But, the ability to climax or even have sex period really doesn't factor very much into my psychology.

To be perfectly honest, I've thought about standing outside of a hospital ER with a shotgun and blowing everything off. I'd be right where medical professionals could take care of me, and the surgery would be reconstructive trauma reduction as opposed to a non insurance-covered SRS. But if there was very little left to recover, perhaps I'd leave looking more like a hermaphrodite and less like a ladyboy??? I say this not to make anyone worry, as I don't think I could SERIOUSLY do that, but I point out this thought to illustrate my point...

I DON'T LIKE having a penis. I don't think I'd be happier per say if I had a vagina, but I find a dick to be this protruding, nasty matter of maleness. As a result, I don't like fucking with it. I don't want to stick it in anything because that just feels too macho-manly for my pschology. I much prefer being penetrated because that makes me feel feminine. I like self facials for the same reason, but I DON'T like to see my penis. I will of course admit that stimulation there feels good (oral, etc.), I just wish I could receive the stimulation without feeling dirty and mannish. I don't know, I think I'm a much more asexual creature with a much lower libido than many of the admirers on this site might believe possible.

[sesame]

I agree with what you say, most of the way. But when I come to this:

I DON'T LIKE having a penis. I don't think I'd be happier per say if I had a vagina, but I find a dick to be this protruding, nasty matter of maleness. As a result, I don't like fucking with it. I don't want to stick it in anything because that just feels too macho-manly for my pschology. I much prefer being penetrated because that makes me feel feminine. I like self facials for the same reason, but I DON'T like to see my penis. I will of course admit that stimulation there feels good (oral, etc.), I just wish I could receive the stimulation without feeling dirty and mannish. I don't know, I think I'm a much more asexual creature with a much lower libido than many of the admirers on this site might believe possible.

You want to be more feminine, ok. You dont want to play the male role, thats ok too. Thats why you dont like to use your penis on someone else, right?
But do you consider a man or a penis something dirty?
Tgirls who retain the penis and abstain from undergoing SRS have different reasons. Some come to terms with themselves and dont get rid of everything which is male. This way they dont end up hating a part of themselves. That would not be good for mental well-being, dont you agree?
Actually the external appearence of the body has little to do with being male or female. Its the mind, that matters. If you think like a woman, you are one. And regarding libido or sex organ, I am of this opinion:
The mind is the most powerful sex organ of all.

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by GRH

I DON'T LIKE having a penis. I don't think I'd be happier per say if I had a vagina, but I find a dick to be this protruding, nasty matter of maleness. As a result, I don't like fucking with it. I don't want to stick it in anything because that just feels too macho-manly for my pschology. I much prefer being penetrated because that makes me feel feminine. I like self facials for the same reason, but I DON'T like to see my penis. I will of course admit that stimulation there feels good (oral, etc.), I just wish I could receive the stimulation without feeling dirty and mannish. I don't know, I think I'm a much more asexual creature with a much lower libido than many of the admirers on this site might believe possible.

I absolutely understand what you are saying. I don't HATE my penis, I don't LOVE my penis. I have never been able to fuck with my penis ever. It was simply like my who being would rebel every time I tried.

That said, I don't feel any compulsion to get rid of it either. It's just a thing I use to go to the bathroom - hardly worth the price of a home to remove. That and my definition of myself is female; my sex assignment at birth, my genital status, and even the clothes I'm wearing neither confirm nor deny my identity.

I bet most TGs feel this way. Unfortunately, legally most places will only recognize gender change after SRS. Nevermind the fact that SRS is only one treatment for GID. So for lots of women SRS simply makes life easier. That leavs out poor women, young women, women who appreciate their penis sexually, women who could give a shit about their crotch. You know the vast majority of Transwomen.

[GRH]

Sesame, as I PMed you last night, I just wanted to clear up here for all else to see. An emphatic no, regarding whether or not I consider a penis or man to be dirty...In fact both can be quite a turn on.

I probably came across a little too harsh sounding, as I don't know if I could say that I HATE my penis. But my gender dysphoria definitely manifests itself in the form of a psychological disconnect down there. The times I've tried to fuck I generally end up in a bad place psychologically. But is that pscyhological disconnect enough to justify the cost of removal? That's something a cheapskate like me is highly skeptical of.

And yes Bionca, it's a shame that full blown SRS is the general criterion whereby which gender switching is generally recognized by the state.

[soarbyrd]

This is my first post on this site. I have been checking this site out for a few weeks, and am impressed by how well people communicate. People can disagree without getting bent about it. This is a rare site, with so many diverse people communicating in such a civilized way.

Thanks to GRH for sharing this. I have always had the same impulse -- to be penetrated rather than being the penetrator -- and reading other peoples' experiences gives me insight into my own nature.

For many years I was pretty much a standard male, but always had this other side to my sexuality. Only in recent years have I acted on it. I'm still learning and growing. I have learned that there can be great tenderness in being penetrated, as well as it being a tremendous turn-on. These days I find myself more interested in the emotional component than the physical aspect, though physicality remains important.

The t-girl world is skewed by all the emphasis on porn and prostitution -- which is great, but sometimes it seems the emotional aspect can get lost. One nice thing about this site is that there are people who post about the more subtle aspects of all this. For every t-girl, there are many, many men who share the same impulse, at least some of the time. If my life had taken a different track, I could have done that, and I think there are many men who could agree.

Thanks to everybody for communicating so openly.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by Bionca

I bet most TGs feel this way. Unfortunately, legally most places will only recognize gender change after SRS. Nevermind the fact that SRS is only one treatment for GID. So for lots of women SRS simply makes life easier. That leavs out poor women, young women, women who appreciate their penis sexually, women who could give a shit about their crotch. You know the vast majority of Transwomen.

I'm not so sure that most TG feel like this - I think that the vast majority of trans women are totally happy with their genitalia. Luckily! SRS is a brutal thing.

And obviously SRS should NEVER EVER be a legal necessity for peoples' legal gender. That's a fascist point of view that completely neglects the fact that gender identification happens between the ears and not between the legs.

The happyness or not with one's sex organs is a personal matter. If a woman truly feels that she needs to cut her dick and be castrated to fulfill her gender identification, then so be it. But that should NEVER be the legal MO. NEVER! And it's a CRIME that some states and countries keep that as a determining factor.

I've known quite a few trans women over the last few years, and my experience is that if you can make it clear that her penis is NOT a symbol of masculinity, that her penis can indeed be a symbol of her femininity, then she may feel more at ease with herself. I know that I may at times be pretty alone with my point of view that a penis is as much a feminine symbol, but none the less I believe it to be true.

It all happens in our minds and not between our legs.

And that is what transsexuality is basicly all about! An understanding that gender identification is personal and has nothing to do with genitalia.

Peace!

H

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

I'm not so sure that most TG feel like this - I think that the vast majority of trans women are totally happy with their genitalia. Luckily! SRS is a brutal thing.

That's pretty much what I was getting at. That most Trans* women are either happy with their penis, or more likely pretty neutral about it. I'll wager that a minority of women have a driving urge to be rid of the "offending" part. I think that both the TG community in the west as well as governments maintain that SRS is the only "real" way to be a woman. This is a shame since it leavs out the many women I mentioned before.

You know, it took me a long while to be used to the idea that my penis could be "feminine". But, I really do see it as part of my body that I at least don't hate - goodness knows I have plenty of other body party to obsess over and rive myself crazy trying to perfect (I'm allowed I'm a woman). I do still vew topping as THE quintessential male act. I just can't, and never could brng myself to do it. I get a little light-headed typing about it....

But my penis is as girly as my boobs and my hands and my plumping bottom and my shrinking stomach. I guess I'm on a kick lately where I love a transsexual body. One that isn't perfectly rounded, one that has a smallish breasts and a thickish middle, one that looks like a lovely trans* woman. Redefining beauty on my terms based on my body. So it has become important to love the parts of me while being mindful of health and my ability to alter most of it to make me feel more comfortable.

[hankhavelock]

The whole point is satisfaction! As I claimed, to me a dick is as much a girly think as a macho thing... so is topping! If she gets enjoyment out of topping her lover, then it is a feminine act. As simple as that!

But that's merely my opinion. If you dislike topping, then that's how it is for you, sayangku! And that's totally fair talk.

Peace!

H

[Bionca]

You are right Hank. Objectively, any action taken by a woman is a "feminine" act - so working on cars, spitting, cussing, knitting, giggling, shopping are all equally masculine and feminine. In fact I just completed the most feminine act of adjusting my balls in my panties (I really hate when they silp a bit and then you cross your legs and end up pinching them.. ). The actions do (or should) not determine gender, it is the actors who do.

Even so ... topping makes me woosey.. I need to lie down

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by Bionca

Even so ... topping makes me woosey.. I need to lie down

Well, as long as you lie down on your back... ;-) With it all sticking up and ready... uuuuuuuuuuuu... then you can be the "passive-topper-from-the-bottom"... NO COMPLAINTS about that :-)

I'm sure you'll be ultimately feminine no matter how big your farts and the cars you overhaul... if you WANT to be - cuz in that lies the whole point! And ball-adjusting just ROCKS!

Hmmm...

H

[Bionca]

well.. I DO tend to "top from the bottom" if you understand.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by Bionca

well.. I DO tend to "top from the bottom" if you understand.

I believe I get the gist of the gemini ;-)

yeah i agree

[twistedone]

Originally Posted by GRH

I know that a fair amount of what is posted here is the objectification of transwomen, and I'm actually not going to bash that fact. I also know that many transgendered women end up working in the sex industry as a means of making income. But the images of t-girl sexuality is somewhat distorted by the rather one dimensional view that pornography presents. Surely, some transgirls are raging and exotic shecock sex fiends, but I think not nearly at the levels that many people fantasize about.

Guilty as charged. I sense that I'm making them objects. I'm also trying to change that, and firmly believe they are human beings that have feelings, hopes, dreams, goals, likes and dislikes just like the rest of us.

I say this for two obvious reasons and the first has been discussed with some frequency around here. Quite simply, taking hormones often has the effect of shrinking the girls penis, testicles, etc. This can also lead to a lowered libido, lower sperm counts, difficulty achieving erection. This is all pretty straight forward stuff that can be gleaned from the medical literature on hormone replacement therapy.

The aspect that I have seen considered much less frequently is the psychology of a transwoman. I myself and a pre-op or non-op, but more as a matter of cost than a desire to keep my plumbing in tact. SRS can run over a hundred grand, and quite frankly, even if I qualified for the surgery today and had the money in hand I would have to think LONG about whether I'd ever want to hand that much money over to a surgeon. But, the ability to climax or even have sex period really doesn't factor very much into my psychology.

Lets also consider the added costs of seeing a shrink at least a year before getting SRS. A lot of countries require that now.

To be perfectly honest, I've thought about standing outside of a hospital ER with a shotgun and blowing everything off. I'd be right where medical professionals could take care of me, and the surgery would be reconstructive trauma reduction as opposed to a non insurance-covered SRS. But if there was very little left to recover, perhaps I'd leave looking more like a hermaphrodite and less like a ladyboy??? I say this not to make anyone worry, as I don't think I could SERIOUSLY do that, but I point out this thought to illustrate my point...

I DON'T LIKE having a penis. I don't think I'd be happier per say if I had a vagina, but I find a dick to be this protruding, nasty matter of maleness. As a result, I don't like fucking with it. I don't want to stick it in anything because that just feels too macho-manly for my pschology. I much prefer being penetrated because that makes me feel feminine. I like self facials for the same reason, but I DON'T like to see my penis. I will of course admit that stimulation there feels good (oral, etc.), I just wish I could receive the stimulation without feeling dirty and mannish. I don't know, I think I'm a much more asexual creature with a much lower libido than many of the admirers on this site might believe possible.

Glad to know that you see that taking such a drastic action as to blow your penis off with a shotgun would be counter productive. In addition to the physical and emotional pain, you'd also be subject to a firearms violation.

I wish I could find the right words to ease your mind. I can say though, you've already started down the path seeking your own happiness, regardless of what anyone thinks. For that, I salute you. Continue taking responsibility by seeking out what makes you happy. Ignore those that want you to be something your not. I don't think you'll be able to change them, but who knows, after a period of time, attitudes can change. In turn, I support you.

[jimnaseum]

When you go down on a girl, it's the clit that drives them wild, right? Which is the female version of the dick, where all the nerve endings connect to the dopamine center of the brain or whatever. So even limp, I would think you'd like your dick worked on.
As far as sex lives go, Gay Adventurer, peeping tom, gigalo, hooker, pervert, I just think that being a full blown shemale would be one of the most exciting and glamorous, I mean you can get so wrapped up into it. Then you can get off hormones, move to another city and be the sad working stiff nobody like society planned.

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by jimnaseum

When you go down on a girl, it's the clit that drives them wild, right? Which is the female version of the dick, where all the nerve endings connect to the dopamine center of the brain or whatever. So even limp, I would think you'd like your dick worked on.
As far as sex lives go, Gay Adventurer, peeping tom, gigalo, hooker, pervert, I just think that being a full blown shemale would be one of the most exciting and glamorous, I mean you can get so wrapped up into it. Then you can get off hormones, move to another city and be the sad working stiff nobody like society planned.

Well more correctly, the dick is the male version of the clit, since the Y chromosome is a mutated X chromosome and every foetus starts out essentially female. Orally.. sure it isn't bad to have it touched.. but some T-gals really freak out at the very thought of handling it.

Hmm.. I must have missed the glamorous part.. I transitioned, moved to a different town and became a working stiff... darn me for poor planning. Seriously, for me the idea of living as a man is just .. strange. It would be like I had become some sort of cross dresser.

[franalexes]

GRH, Bionca, thanks for the effort .
So many ill-informed; so little time.

[Bionca]

Hey Fran Good to see you posting again :D

[jimnaseum]

I think most people do just try to fit in and really don't understand anybody really. Howard Stern had Boy George on his radio show, and he was very frank about the gay lifestyle, which I don't understand either. Howard joked that to be gay in high school gym class must be like going to Disneyland, but Boy George said he hated gym class because he got beat up all the time. I imagine school must have been pretty crappy for you girls. It was crappy enough for me. And I kept as low a profile as I could.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by jimnaseum

I think most people do just try to fit in and really don't understand anybody really. Howard Stern had Boy George on his radio show, and he was very frank about the gay lifestyle, which I don't understand either. Howard joked that to be gay in high school gym class must be like going to Disneyland, but Boy George said he hated gym class because he got beat up all the time. I imagine school must have been pretty crappy for you girls. It was crappy enough for me. And I kept as low a profile as I could.

If I've learned anything through my last three quite amazing years amongst trans-women as my girlfriends, lovers and dear friends, then it is that there is no one truth. So far they have all been either transvestites or pre-op transsexual women. I'm yet to meet let alone have a conversation with a post-op transwoman. Well, I may just have that unique chance this coming week where I'm going to Bangkok to meet a friend whose close friend is post-op.

But based on what I know, I'd say that it is NOT without a reason that getting full SRS is not the easiest thing. It is an operation you don't want to regret. Besides, being "dick-shy" can be worked upon. Maybe not for all, but most likely for a majority who is considering full SRS.

Transsexuality is such a personal issue that it probably doesn't make any sense to try to deduct any kind of generalization. I've met almost as many approaches to being transgendered as I have met transgendered women.

Acceptance is, how ever, a keyword... one thing is the lack of acceptance from friends and family (and society in general). That can be dealt with - for example relocation can be good in such a situation. Or finding a supportive boyfriend. How ever, lack of self-acceptance is more tricky - and I believe that no kind of "good-hearted" talk or any thing can truly matter in such (luckily rare) cases.

As my dearest friend and first trans-girlfriend once postulated: "In order to be a "succesful" trans, you MUST not only accept but, indeed, enjoy your masculinity..." That's her story, but it holds some truth. My personal belief is that if a trans-woman unhappy with her exterior could just learn to see herself in another light where her penis is no longer a symbol of masculinity, then a lot would be happier. Unfortunately so many still focus on what's between the legs rather than on what's between the ears... and in ones heart...

After this week I may be a wee bit wiser...

[sesame]

Originally Posted by Bionca

Well more correctly, the dick is the male version of the clit, since the Y chromosome is a mutated X chromosome and every foetus starts out essentially female.

That sounds so much like a Feminist. Male and female, who came first? X or Y chromosome, which came first? If I was biased, I could call the X chromosome a mutation of the Y chromosome. See, the two lower strands of the Y chromosome finally separated and became the X chromosome! And for your information, Mizzy B, every foetus starts out neither male, nor female.

Here you go

Would you like more medical images?

[sesame]

Originally Posted by Hankhavelock

Acceptance is, how ever, a keyword... one thing is the lack of acceptance from friends and family (and society in general). That can be dealt with - for example relocation can be good in such a situation. Or finding a supportive boyfriend. How ever, lack of self-acceptance is more tricky - and I believe that no kind of "good-hearted" talk or any thing can truly matter in such (luckily rare) cases.

As my dearest friend and first trans-girlfriend once postulated: "In order to be a "succesful" trans, you MUST not only accept but, indeed, enjoy your masculinity..." That's her story, but it holds some truth. My personal belief is that if a trans-woman unhappy with her exterior could just learn to see herself in another light where her penis is no longer a symbol of masculinity, then a lot would be happier. Unfortunately so many still focus on what's between the legs rather than on what's between the ears... and in ones heart...

Hanky, I praise thy good nature and deep wisdom.

Very nice speech. I especially like what you have said about self-acceptance. If you have confidence in your beauty, the world will reflect it. What people really do is echo our beliefs and fears. If someone needs acceptance, she should accept it in her own heart first.

If you want the society to believe in something, ... believe it firmly yourself! The society will follow you.

[jimnaseum]

I hope nobody takes me too seriously, but I think the two main results of taking female hormones is
1) talking on the phone
2) enjoying getting presents.
I see the models on this site primarily because they're getting paid to do it. They're getting money to look sexy and fabulous. They're not really selling an illusion as much as getting paid to tittle-ate. Which is why I'm here I confess. I consider the M2Fs that talk on the threads to be more like "one of the guys" with real-life problems. Real People. As far as the models, though, I don't seem them as having any problems that money couldn't slolve.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by jimnaseum

I hope nobody takes me too seriously, but I think the two main results of taking female hormones is
1) talking on the phone
2) enjoying getting presents.
I see the models on this site primarily because they're getting paid to do it. They're getting money to look sexy and fabulous. They're not really selling an illusion as much as getting paid to tittle-ate. Which is why I'm here I confess. I consider the M2Fs that talk on the threads to be more like "one of the guys" with real-life problems. Real People. As far as the models, though, I don't seem them as having any problems that money couldn't slolve.

don't worry, I for one don't take you too seriously... ;-)

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by sesame

Hanky, I praise thy good nature and deep wisdom.

Very nice speech. I especially like what you have said about self-acceptance. If you have confidence in your beauty, the world will reflect it. What people really do is echo our beliefs and fears. If someone needs acceptance, she should accept it in her own heart first.

If you want the society to believe in something, ... believe it firmly yourself! The society will follow you.

Oh, my good friend, but there is, indeed, one catch to it all... it's NOT enough merely to believe in yourself or even expressing it - you need to be able to stand up for your beliefs. Agreed, coming as an excuse for one self makes one an easy prey for the born-again moral majority, but they WILL challenge you... even viciously, no matter how strongly you come forward. Therefore, being ready for taking up the fight is imperative... and being somewhat aggressive as well.

I'm just a fuzzy lill ladyboy lover, so the attacks I meet are mere water compared to what trans-women have to face. But I attack back forcefully (verbally, needless to say) and go for the most sensitive parts of my adversary when (seldomly) confronted. I'd NEVER allow such one to even come close to a verbal victory... I make it my absolute and only priority to send her or him home as the undeniable loser of the argument.

I DETEST trans-fobia! Trans-fobics are low, undemocratic, uninformed shits that so badly need stern verbal punishment.

Grrr...

H

[sesame]

it's NOT enough merely to believe in yourself or even expressing it - you need to be able to stand up for your beliefs. Agreed, coming as an excuse for one self makes one an easy prey for the born-again moral majority, but they WILL challenge you... even viciously, no matter how strongly you come forward. Therefore, being ready for taking up the fight is imperative... and being somewhat aggressive as well.
... I make it my absolute and only priority to send her or him home as the undeniable loser of the argument.

Bravo! Mate, continue your good work!