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#51
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So Tracy, a personal question for you. Do you think the way the religious right has hijacked the Republican party is ultimately a good thing or a liability? It is a reliable voting block...But I wondered what you thought of some of the policy positions of said voting block.
For me, "traditional family values" rubs me wrong. But then I'm one of those liberals who supports a woman's right to control their body. I also support gay marriage and several other things that are untenable to this voting block. While I disagree with Republicans on countless issues, some of the more moderate and liberal Republicans don't leave such a bad taste in my mouth. The block of Republicans that voted to end DADT is actually a group of Republicans that I might consider voting for under certain circumstances. But among the Tea Party these individuals are considered RINO's. I think it's a shame that moderate Republicans have been so marginalized. |
#52
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I thought the Tea Party was going to be a new beginning for the republicans. I thought they would bring back the central idea that we want a small fiscally responsible government. Period. But every Tea Party candidate, yes is pro small fiscally responsible government, but also the religious right on steroids.
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#53
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Prove it. And don't forget what the military leadership itself has been forced to admit. |
#54
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But perhaps you're right. Perhaps every last serviceman/woman is fine with gays in the military and therefore there is no one who would be distracted by them. And perhaps those overly militant bastards who beat gays and transgendered people would all steer clear of the military.
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#55
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"I thought DADT was a good compromise between allowing gays in the military, and taking into consideration the reality that an openly gay person in the military, right or wrong, is going to be a distraction and at worse will put gay servicemen/women's lives in danger." Anyone who knows how to diagram a sentence can tell you that what you are referring to as a "thought" is DADT as a compromise. The rest of what you state is not presented as your thought, but as a claim to be "reality." So, either say that you can't back up your claim about "reality" or acknowledge that you mis-wrote. But don't hide behind a lexical argument that holds no water. |
#56
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But feel free to claim that every last serviceman/woman is fine with gays in the military and that overly militant bastards who beat gays and transgendered people would all steer clear of the military.
__________________
A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#57
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#58
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#59
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Thank you, ila. And it must really be Tracy's belief, because given the opportunity to recant, Tracy passed. Of course, the imperative to post like a troll may have overwhelmed reason at that moment.
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#60
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#61
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Bachman is a zero term president
Bachman is teaparty wackado and needs a change of address form to show her new home at the funny farm Bachman is very good at finger pointing and complaining and laying all the blame at the DEMS but she never offers any ideas on what she would do to fix things no wonder the GOP love her Her only answer is continue with the failed policies of W which were the continuing of his fathers failed policies who was continuing the failed policies of Reagan who was nothing then a two bit brain dead movie actor no wonder this country is so screwed up Jerseygirl Jen Last edited by transjen; 06-17-2011 at 04:51 PM. |
#62
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In 2008, she said -- revealing her tremendous grasp of science -- that "carbon dioxide is portrayed as harmful. But there isn?t even one study that can be produced that shows that carbon dioxide is a harmful gas." But my favorite Bachmannism is when she testified to the Minnesota State Senate in 2005 that abolishing the minimum wage would create jobs. "Literally," she said, "if we took away the minimum wage -- if conceivably it was gone -- we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely because we would be able to offer jobs at whatever level." Putting aside that reducing the minimum wage has been shown by economists to be contractionary, it really speaks to the kind of United States she wants: "jobs at whatever level," with no protection. |
#63
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The phrase "teaparty wackado" is redundant. The one word offers the same information as the other. |
#64
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Oh the irony. Calling something redundant, and then defining redundant.
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#65
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Oh, the typicality ... moving on to the next topic to avoid confronting having been called out for the previous topic.
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#66
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This would be funnier were it not as smc said: you are using me to avoid responding to smc's challenge.
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#67
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Unlike the rest of this forum, there seems to be no serious discussion here.
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#68
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Some of us try, but alas, it's damn near possible with a troll in the thread. A troll doesn't really want to discuss. A troll just wants to be a troll.
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#69
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The troll by his nature cannot offer anything of substance. The troll by his nature is only capable of putting people down. Last edited by Enoch Root; 06-18-2011 at 09:44 AM. |
#70
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Tracy's remarks are only of little substance,,,,,,,, to you.
The Christians that were in the lion's den never won the battle; but the lions never defeated the Christians. One needs to look away from the computer long enough to realise that the Obama plan is not working unless of course if "not working" is the plan. |
#71
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Like the Lions in the coliseum said "If you can't beat 'em, eat 'em!!!
I think you can lay direct blame for this weak field of Republican candidates on FOX NEWS. No candidate can win the Bible Belt primaries wihout Fox, and no candidate can win the Presidency with Fox. This country will never elect Sarah Palin even if unemployment is at 20%!!!! |
#72
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#73
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#74
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The post cannot a) depend upon derailing conversation. Tracy does this all the time by "answering" a question with a question, focusing on trivial details in a post asking for answers from Tracy, or as Tracy demonstrated not 10 posts ago! by using me and making fun of me to avoid smc's challenge. Or just ignoring people altogether--Tracy has done this many times to smc. And more importantly b) it cannot depend upon impoverishing, bankrupting, or killing people. Tracy's interests are clearly ruling class interests and the ruling class has a tendency towards proposing policies that do one or all three of those things. If your answers, posts, solutions--call it what you will--depend on restricting the freedom of the working people it has no substance. It is, rather, morally abhorrent. Last edited by Enoch Root; 06-18-2011 at 03:31 PM. |
#75
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#76
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Funny, I thought the same thing could be said of the Republican agenda. After all, Republicans are on the record as saying their NUMBER ONE priority is making Obama a one-term president (as opposed to actually creating jobs or fixing the economy). It seems they are willing to wreck the economy, default on the debt, and do anything to achieve that end.
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#77
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He may not have liked my response, (and by default you didn't like it either) but I did respond.
__________________
A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#78
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You are such a cowardly debater, Tracy Coxx. You know that this is about the substance of your responses. Why cowardly? You rarely take responsibility ffor the TROLL-like crap you spew. You try over and again to change the subject when you get called out. Sometimes, you whine that you're not being treated properly. And then, when you get just a tiny bit of courage in you, you send PMs with challenges that you then never meet yourself. Your response to Enoch Root is no different. This isn't about what you stand for, it's about HOW you stand for it. There are people who have your points of view who are honorable and honest debaters, who believe that discourse has value. Then there are Internet TROLLS. Anyone who can get past the "politics" and look at the method, regardless of which side that person may come down on politically, knows the camp in which you reside. |
#79
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I am not smc's lapdog though I do bristle at the accusation. He and I agree on many things but this does not mean I follow him blindly.
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#80
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GRH asked a reasonable question and I gave my answers. Then come the obligatory responses from smc (and again by default you). You follow him around like a little puppy dog yapping at his heels. Get a room. Quote:
Translation: Tax all people an equal percentage. OMG what a radical thought. Quote:
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If you did have something of substance to add to the political debate I still have no interest in debating you because of your argumentative and hostile tactics. Not to mention your frequent use of administrative methods to end debates. So tell me, in light of all this, why would I have any interest in a "debate" with you? Enough of this BS. Back to the topic.
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#81
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GRH, what is the result of endlessly raising the debt ceiling?
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#82
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#83
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"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president." -- Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY)
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#84
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People should be held responsible for what they say and write. I accept 100% responsibility for everything I post on this site. When I've been wrong, I have posted so. These posts can be found and read. When you're called out, you change the subject. Period. Now, prove you're not a debating coward. Back up your post that provoked this exchange -- the "reality" to which you ascribe your anti-gays-in-the-military statements. ila called you out on it, and you haven't answered. You don't need to debate me. You can debate the issue with him. Answer his post. Go on, don't be afraid. Last edited by smc; 06-19-2011 at 02:27 PM. |
#85
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GRH, what is the result of endlessly raising the debt ceiling?
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#86
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Who is more foolish the fool or the fools that follow him?
Tax cuts will not fix the economy doing away with the dread big brother government will not fix the economy ending unions banning gay marriage hunting down every illeagal alien none of these things will fix the economy You want to fix the economy it's very simple but neither party wants or even has any solid idea on how to do it To fix the economy you need a strong midclass, it was a strong middleclass that made the US economy number one Reagans moring in America declared war on the middleclass and started the policies to elimitnate the middleclass and NAFTA CAFTA and all rhese other BS trade agreements sent most of the middleclass jobs over to India and Chgina, 20 years of outsourcing and we are seeing the true cost ski high unemployment Jerseygirl Jen |
#87
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BO blames it on ATMs lol. But again, we've had ATMs for a while now.
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#88
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Let's face it folks, this isn't exactly "The Greatest Generation" we live in. Look at the last 20 years. Is there anything to be proud of?
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#89
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mmmm.... not really. If you put this America up against the America from the 40s-60s, we'd get our asses handed to us.
__________________
A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#90
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Wow, Tracy must have friends in high places because a bucket load of posts just got deleted where she was accused (rightly so IMO) of being a troll.
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#91
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[QUOTE=Enoch Root;188577]If I understand the analogy correctly you are comparing Tracy and people like Tracy to Christians under persecution.
My thoughts were only to say that Tracy is a minority in this forum. On the outside, Tracy does seem to be favorable to the Tea Party ( even though there really is no such thing {organised}.) They are mostly middle class ( are you reading this Jen?) that are fed up with Washington. Minority in numbers but certainly a force to be recond with. |
#92
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[QUOTE=franalexes;188771]
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What about you Fran?
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#93
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Tracy, as I said in my PM to you, I'm sorry my initial reply/edit didn't get my point regarding the government debt across. As I meant to say the first time, I obviously don't think endlessly adding debt is a sustainable fiscal strategy. But where I seem to differ from some of the Tea Partiers is that I also don't think defaulting on the debt is a viable option.
Some people make a point that tax receipts are enough to cover the interest payments on the debt. That, in and of itself, may be true. But the reason we run deficits every month is because our non-discretionary spending exceeds tax receipts. So yes, we may be able to pay the interest on the debt without defaulting based purely on tax receipts...We can't meet our obligations based entirely on tax receipts. Want to hurt the economy? Try not paying seniors their social security checks for a few months. Unfortunately, the policies that are likely to rectify the debt situation (cutting spending and raising taxes) are also the same policies that are likely to stifle growth and potentially lead us back into a recession. History bares this fact out. In an ideal world, we'd be able to grow our way out of the debt...And some Republican plans (Pawlenty) insinuate that spending $11.6 trillion on tax cuts for the wealthy will somehow stimulate GDP growth on par with China's GDP growth. Pretty much every economist admits that this notion is absurd. Similarly, the idea that you finance your way out of debt by adding more debt (without addressing structural problems) is not sustainable. We really need austerity...But the time for harsh austerity isn't now. There needs to be a plan whereby which austerity will be phased in so that we don't choke our economic recovery. And in my opinion, austerity measures need to leave EVERYTHING on the table...Tax increases, spending cuts, entitlement reform, etc. And quite frankly, I think none of our current crop of politicians have the political wherewithal to stand up and do what needs to be done. To be sure...They are one-sided in their approach. Republicans will talk about privatizing Medicare but don't want to touch taxes. Democrats will talk about raising taxes but don't want to touch entitlements. In the end, I'm sure that we'll end up with a bland compromise that is underwhelming...And which ultimately does very little to address our larger issues. |
#94
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You make some other good points that I thought I'd at least comment on.
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But you are absolutely right, at some point the fetus is capable of being sustained outside of the womb...And I believe abortion at that point is murder. Where do you draw this line? I don't know. From my personal perspective, I think abortion is deplorable and is murder very early within the lifespan of a potential human being. But I don't think it's my place to make moral judgements for other people...And despite what many on the right would lead you to believe, I don't know ANY woman that has undertaken the decision to get an abortion lightly. And there's also the issue that whether it's legal or not...Women have been trying to abort babies long before Roe vs. Wade. I'd prefer abortion be a medically supervised and safe (relatively speaking) procedure. This is a main reason that I am pro-choice. But I'm not one of those raving pro-choice lunatics who believes in the supremacy of a "woman's right to choose." I have absolutely no problem with making third trimester abortions illegal in almost all cases. I have no problem with the 24-week limit...In fact, I know that some states have been making the threshhold for an abortion even earlier (like 20 weeks). I have no problem with this. What I do have a problem with is when Republicans go so far as trying to make virtually all abortion illegal-- including day-after pills and in cases of rape/incest. Quote:
However, with the second part of your statement I couldn't agree more. I would have absolutely no problem with the federal government (and state government) exiting the marriage business altogether. All government recognized marriages will become null and void and shall henceforth be deemed to be civil contracts...civil unions essentially. Any two consenting adults can apply for said civil contract, and when granted the contract, will be given all the rights and responsibilities that the former institution of marriage used to confer. If the same consenting adults wish to get married (a religious ceremony overseen by "God"), they can contact the church/denomination/faith of their choice and receive the rights of marriage. Quote:
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#95
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Question for you: 236 republicans (not just Tea Party, but republicans) and 82 democrats voted not to raise the debt ceiling in a no-strings attached vote. Why is it the general perception that only the Tea Partiers want us to default on our debt? Left wing media does not jive with reality. Quote:
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Cutting spending is the right thing to do. Like in Canada & Puerto Rico. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/...n-from-canada/ Quote:
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#96
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#97
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This issue about ?unborn fetuses? is a further distraction. Saying nothing against the claim does not mean I approve. If someone asks for clarification, for an answer, and the person being questioned makes a show of not providing one that is an odd thing. It is cause for skepticism and for at least one more attempt at asking for an answer. This is what I mean by derailing. Conversations by their nature generate many different avenues to take and some avenues interest some people more than others and it is by no means a bad thing for someone to ask a question. Appropriate responses include: I?ll have to think more on this or I have the information elsewhere give me (an hour, a day, a week, etc) to read it over, compile it and post it here or simply admit ignorance, for ignorance?so long as it is not deliberate?is no sin. Ultimately it is impossible to have a discussion with you. Save, of course, if you are allowed to ignore anything that you don?t like or contradicts you, whether a direct challenge from smc or ila?s softer suggestion to get your facts straight or my even tamer reminder not to use me as an excuse to ignore other challenges. |
#98
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Provide the source for this quote from Karl Marx, other than a conservative site in the blogosphere. It shows up nowhere in any of the complete online libraries of the works of Karl Marx, but it is used again and again by conservative bloggers. I am perfectly willing to accept that it is real if you can cite the source. Otherwise, you must retract it in the interest of intellectual honesty.
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#99
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#100
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What are people's thoughts on Rick Perry entering the GOP fray? I'd be a little concerned to elect anyone who has talked about seceding from the Union-- haven't we been down that path before?
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