Liberal free for all coming to an end

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

So it doesn't matter who is in the Whitehouse, we will be screwed by the rich. Over Over and over

I'm not being screwed by any super rich. Are you?

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

I'm not being screwed by any super rich. Are you?

No, I am not either, because the rich are obsessed with money rather than sex. Their view of screwing somebody is getting as much of their money as possible. I suspect they have organisms at night playing with their money. $$$

[smc]

Originally Posted by randolph

No, I am not either, because the rich are obsessed with money rather than sex. Their view of screwing somebody is getting as much of their money as possible. I suspect they have organisms at night playing with their money. $$$

I'm not rich, and I'm not poor, but I've never heard of nor aspired to having an organism (unless, of course, you count my own). Wow! The things money can buy continue to astound me. Do you get that from Nordstrom or Neiman-Marcus?

[randolph]

Originally Posted by smc

I'm not rich, and I'm not poor, but I've never heard of nor aspired to having an organism (unless, of course, you count my own). Wow! The things money can buy continue to astound me. Do you get that from Nordstrom or Neiman-Marcus?

Didn't you know, organisms are a special kind of orgasm for people who have a spelling disability.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

No, I am not either, because the rich are obsessed with money rather than sex. Their view of screwing somebody is getting as much of their money as possible. I suspect they have organisms at night playing with their money. $$$

LOL Let them play with their organisms. It's a free country.

So are the super rich taking your money randolf?

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

LOL Let them play with their organisms. It's a free country.

So are the super rich taking your money randolf?

Not anymore, I have it all stashed in Nigeria.

[franalexes]

Originally Posted by randolph

Not anymore, I have it all stashed in Nigeria.

And I can free up those funds for you if you just forward your account numbers and a small transaction fee.

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by randolph

Not anymore, I have it all stashed in Nigeria.

Nigeria probably isn't the best place to go with all your money. The MEND organization isn't exactly the friendliest of groups. Just givin you a heads up.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by The Conquistador

Nigeria probably isn't the best place to go with all your money. The MEND organization isn't exactly the friendliest of groups. Just givin you a heads up.

I followed Fran's instructions and now my money is safely stored in a secret cave deep in the jungle and protected by Pygmies.

[TracyCoxx]

November 3rd after the democrats lost control of the House

Originally Posted by Obama

we were in such a hurry to get things done that we didn?t change how things got done. And I think that frustrated people.
...

I am a strong believer that the earmarking process in Congress isn?t what the American people really want to see when it comes to making tough decisions about how taxpayer dollars are spent. And I, in the rush to get things done, had to sign a bunch of bills that had earmarks in them, which was contrary to what I had talked about. And I think folks look at that and they said, ?Gosh, this feels like the same partisan squabbling, this seems like the same ways of doing business as happened before.? And so one of the things that I?ve got to take responsibility for is not having moved enough on those fronts.

So does that mean we can expect a veto of the FY2011 Omnibus Spending Bill because of the 6714 earmarks worth $8 billion that it contains?

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

November 3rd after the democrats lost control of the House


So does that mean we can expect a veto of the FY2011 Omnibus Spending Bill because of the 6714 earmarks worth $8 billion that it contains?

Not likely, what politicians say and what they do have little connection. In spite of the critical deficit they are not willing to bite the bullet, take fiscal responsibility and severely cut spending. The millions for new engines for the strike fighter is a case in point. The military doesn't want them but Congress wants to spend the money that we don't have anyway.

[franalexes]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

November 3rd after the democrats lost control of the House


So does that mean we can expect a veto of the FY2011 Omnibus Spending Bill because of the 6714 earmarks worth $8 billion that it contains?

Get fucking real! You know better.

[randolph]

Washington is a disaster and its not just the liberals responsible, the whole system, Supreme Court, Congress, White House, political parties, is fucked up. There seems to be nothing that we can do about it, or is there?

What if everyone in the country only paid 50% of their tax bill?

[The Conquistador]

[QUOTE=randolph;168205]Washington is a disaster and its not just the liberals responsible, the whole system, Supreme Court, Congress, White House, political parties, is fucked up. There seems to be nothing that we can do about it, or is there?[/B]

There is, but most people are too lazy and self serving to do anything to correct it. Seeing as how it would be too much of a hinderance on their ability to watch American Idol and bloat themselves with twinkies, most would rather be happy being entertained and being ignorant of the world around them than stand up and take a second to realize how fast the boat is sinking. This is The Fall Of Rome Pt. 2: The American Fasttrack.

Originally Posted by randolph

What if everyone in the country only paid 50% of their tax bill?

What if everyone just decided to keep their money and never paid their taxes?

[The Conquistador]

In other news, 9 TRILLION missing from the Federal Reserve!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYNVNhB-m0o

[randolph]

Originally Posted by The Conquistador

In other news, 9 TRILLION missing from the Federal Reserve!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYNVNhB-m0o

This boggles the mind! A must see by every American.

[ila]

Originally Posted by randolph

.......What if everyone in the country only paid 50% of their tax bill?

Take a look at Greece's problems and you'll see what happens when taxes aren't paid.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by ila

Take a look at Greece's problems and you'll see what happens when taxes aren't paid.

Bankruptcy!

On the other hand what if the government keeps spending more money and cutting taxes?
Bankruptcy!

Argentina is going to solve their debt problem by expropriating retirement accounts. Are we next?
Rioting in the streets.

Uggg, I need to go back to thinking about lovely erect shecocks.

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by randolph

This boggles the mind! A must see by every American.

Politician*

Rope*

Lamppost*

*Some assembly required...


And people think that the Gov. has their best interests in mind. Obviously not if they are so loose with other peoples money.

[randolph]

Guess who is winning.

[TracyCoxx]

There's no comparison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR5MweSZjbc

[transjen]

Very true for one he's not a two bit brain dead movie actor
Jerseygirl Jen

[randolph]

Dear old Ronnie started the trickle down economy. Remember the Laffer curve? It was bullshit then and its bullshit now. Ronnie had to eventually raise taxes because his policies failed. Nevertheless since then, Repubs. have loved the trickle down economy.

So now Obama has embraced Reaganomics.

Can anybody still believe Obama is a socialist?

Taxes will have to be raised, it's just a matter of time. The way things are going, a Republican congress will have to do it.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Taxes will have to be raised, it's just a matter of time. The way things are going, a Republican congress will have to do it.

And back we go to post 225.

[transjen]

Want to cut stuff then first and foremost lets cut corprate welfare the billions of tax dollars being pumped in to multibillion dollar corprations like the oil companies and second tax the rich forget all this GOP bull crap that tax cuts for the rich trickles down well W did mega tax cuts for the rich and at the end of eight years avg joes family income was down and he lost more jobs then he created so lets here it for trickle down and buy the way Tracy before you start giveing unemployment percentages don't forgot to count the two wars and all the reservest cared up and had to walk away from there jobs creating an temp opening which hide a large portation of unemployement and if tax cuts for the rich create jobs then what happend where are the jobs?
Tax cuts for the rich doesn't create jobs this is the same old GOP BS that has been going around since the GOP saint Ronny came up with the BS in the 80s and aftwer 12 years of the BS all we were left with was a sea of red ink and massive unemployment
Trickle down was a failure in the 80s and it's still a failure it only benfits the rich
Jerseygirl Jen

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Tread

I don?t know what is made with Obama care, but how can it be more expensive to your insurance payments? What are they doing wrong with the Obama care that it doesn?t get closer to other countries in price?

Looks like ObamaCare is starting to have an effect already. I am employed and I have health insurance. Our insurance rates are going up this year more than usual. What's worse is I'm losing my doctor I've had for years because he's now completely off insurance. He's on this thing called MDVIP which means if I want to keep him as a doctor I have to pay him $1600/year and I get to see him as often as I want. This isn't just my doctor, I know a few other people who also have to find other doctors and while searching online for doctors I'm seeing that people are saying don't bother with this doctor - he's good but he's not on insurance anymore. I don't have $1600/yr to spend on a doctor so I have to find a doctor who's probably not as good. So like they've been saying about ObamaCare: decreased quality of service, and or higher medical bills. Obama, I thought you said if I liked my old health care I could keep it. I can't do that you SOB. It doesn't exist anymore.

[Tread]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Looks like ObamaCare is starting to have an effect already. I am employed and I have health insurance. Our insurance rates are going up this year more than usual. What's worse is I'm losing my doctor I've had for years because he's now completely off insurance. He's on this thing called MDVIP which means if I want to keep him as a doctor I have to pay him $1600/year and I get to see him as often as I want. This isn't just my doctor, I know a few other people who also have to find other doctors and while searching online for doctors I'm seeing that people are saying don't bother with this doctor - he's good but he's not on insurance anymore. I don't have $1600/yr to spend on a doctor so I have to find a doctor who's probably not as good. So like they've been saying about ObamaCare: decreased quality of service, and or higher medical bills. Obama, I thought you said if I liked my old health care I could keep it. I can't do that you SOB. It doesn't exist anymore.

I don?t know what you want to say. Is this an answer? Am I supposed to say something?
What has this to do with decreased quality of service? Is your old doctor the only good doctor in your range?
Is there a connection between ObamaCare or Obama and MDVIP I should know off?
This sounds like it was the doctor?s decision, and the doctor could have done this years earlier, if he/she wanted.
And why are you affronting Obama for that?

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Tread

I don’t know what you want to say. Is this an answer? Am I supposed to say something?
What has this to do with decreased quality of service? Is your old doctor the only good doctor in your range?
Is there a connection between ObamaCare or Obama and MDVIP I should know off?
This sounds like it was the doctor’s decision, and the doctor could have done this years earlier, if he/she wanted.
And why are you affronting Obama for that?

Like I said it's not just my doctor. It looks like it's several doctors. I'm trying to get a feel for how widespread this is. But it looks like this is how things are going now.

[TracyCoxx]

Can someone please explain Pelosi? Yesterday on her way out she said:

"Deficit reduction has been a high priority for us, it's our mantra: Pay as you go."

I know politicians stretch the truth, but with the deficit increasing $5.2 trillion under her watch how can she stand there and say that with a straight face? This fits every definition of a bold faced lie. Is there any way she can possibly believe what she's saying is true?

[Tread]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Like I said it's not just my doctor. It looks like it's several doctors. I'm trying to get a feel for how widespread this is. But it looks like this is how things are going now.

Oh, come on. According to their website http://www.mdvip.com/ they were founded in 2000, and they list almost 400 doctors in the whole US (I counted).
What do you want to say?

BTW: What does the abbreviation MDVIP stands for? I can?t find it.

[smc]

Originally Posted by Tread

Oh, come on. According to their website http://www.mdvip.com/ they were founded in 2000, and they list almost 400 doctors in the whole US (I counted).
What do you want to say?

BTW: What does the abbreviation MDVIP stands for? I can?t find it.

Any doctor who decides to join MDVIP is doing so for his or her own reasons, not because he or she is driven there by the Obama healthcare reform.

MDVIP (it means "Medical Doctors for Very Important Persons") is a money-making venture begun by some doctors who want to make more money by offering boutique, personalized services to those who can afford it. It is the antithesis of the kind of healthcare we should have in this country. Notably, Procter & Gamble -- the giant consumer products company -- bought this company fully in early 2010, expanding its minority stake to full ownership.

I spoke with two Harvard Medical School professors I know before writing this response. Here's a synopsis of how they both described MDVIP.

- This is another step in the misdirection of "managed care," designed to make more money doing less.

- The criteria for being a doctor in the MDVIP network is that you have to cut your practice to about 600 patients maximum (the current primary-care doctor in an urban area has 2,000 to 3,000 patients). The criteria for being a patient of such a doctor is your personal level of wealth and disposable income to pay for "care" beyond your insurance. The doctor will still collect from your insurance company; he or she just wants you to pay extra for the "privilege" of seeing him or her quickly.

- The focus is on "preventive" care, which should be the focus of the healthcare system as a whole.

- One of my colleagues said, "Welcome to the medical world's version of a country club."

Tracy Coxx, you really ought to take a deep breath before jumping to the conclusion that everything you dislike in the world can be traced to Obama, Pelosi, Democrats, and so on. The business model for a company like MDVIP precedes the healthcare debate and legislation of the last year by a long time; doctors have been trying to figure out ways to create these boutiques as sustainable ventures for many years.

[Tread]

Thanks for the info, smc.
That confirms what I have googled and concluded about MDVIP.

Post #276 sounds like it was a response to me, and should prove something. I expected an explanation or at minimum some conspiracy theory from Tracy, and not an absurd pointless attack against Obama.

[TracyCoxx]

Welll we'll see how it pans out. And no, I did not say that MDVIP is the only refuge for doctors who are fed up with what Obama is doing to the health care system.

[transjen]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Welll we'll see how it pans out. And no, I did not say that MDVIP is the only refuge for doctors who are fed up with what Obama is doing to the health care system.

Well tell these greedy doctors to jam it as those doctors can careless about there patients and all the care about is money so everyone is better off with out them and let them go work at Wal-mart for min wage
This for profit medical system is what's wrong with it the pure greed of the doctors and healthcare ins companies
If you think that stopin malpractice lawsuits and letting the healthcare ins companies run wild with no rules the coast will come down then i have a bridge to see you in San Fran bay
But then these ideas are from the same nut jobs who claim cutting taxes on the rich will create jobs
Jerseygirl Jen

[Trogdor]

Originally Posted by transjen

Well tell these greedy doctors to jam it as those doctors can careless about there patients and all the care about is money so everyone is better off with out them and let them go work at Wal-mart for min wage
This for profit medical system is what's wrong with it the pure greed of the doctors and healthcare ins companies
If you think that stopin malpractice lawsuits and letting the healthcare ins companies run wild with no rules the coast will come down then i have a bridge to see you in San Fran bay
But then these ideas are from the same nut jobs who claim cutting taxes on the rich will create jobs
Jerseygirl Jen

Yep, it's pretty much Reaganomics all over again....and we all know how well that went.

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Welll we'll see how it pans out. And no, I did not say that MDVIP is the only refuge for doctors who are fed up with what Obama is doing to the health care system.

That's right: you did not use those words. But what I wrote is still how you come across, and you can't hide it.

[TracyCoxx]

It's horrendous what happened in Arizona yesterday. I'm so glad Rep. Giffords survived. I just hope she is able to recover back to a normal life. And it's so sad about the others who were killed. What kind of monster shoots a 9 year old girl? The sooner they strap him to the electric chair the better.

[desirouspussy]

Originally Posted by franalexes

I find it amazing that foriegners act as the experts on American government.

It isn't really all that amazing, Fran. People in Europe are generally very well informed on American government. That is because American policy affects the people on this side of the ocean almost as much as you.
Take for instance the current financial crises that was triggered in the US but now affects us all. Many European countries have troops stationed in Afganistan simply because they cannot afford to be on bad terms with the US. That is unfortunately what politics is all about.

But while we're rather well informed on American politics, it is often hard for us to understand the American way. We can for instance not understand that in a country as rich as the US, where some are earning billions of dollars while trillions are wasted on useless wars, millions of people cannot afford to take out health insurance. It is even harder to understand for us that a President who is trying to rectify this horrible situation is heavily criticized by those doing well. I guess we just don't get that over here.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by GGadmirer

It is even harder to understand for us that a President who is trying to rectify this horrible situation is heavily criticized by those doing well. I guess we just don't get that over here.

It's the way he's going about it. You don't have congress pass thousand page health care packages that affect people's health and 1/6 of the nations economy without reading it after making campaign promises of no more back room deals. Seriously, the congressmen voting on it did not know what was in it. That's insane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV-05TLiiLU

The other problem is that the Constitution does not grant the government power to force people to buy health insurance. A federal judge has already ruled on this, so that has to be resolved.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

It's horrendous what happened in Arizona yesterday. I'm so glad Rep. Giffords survived. I just hope she is able to recover back to a normal life. And it's so sad about the others who were killed. What kind of monster shoots a 9 year old girl? The sooner they strap him to the electric chair the better.

Apparently he legally bought a Glock at a gun shop a few months ago. The evidence indicates that the young man is clearly deranged and should have never been allowed to have a gun.
I don't know if they do background checks in Arizona and they want to make it legal for students to bring guns to school. As the Sheriff said, Arizona is living up to the Tombstone reputation.

[TracyCoxx]

Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie (D) suggested in an interview that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.

Originally Posted by Gov. Abercrombie

It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down ...

But no long-form birth certificate. And no typed original document like what BO has posted online. Looks like it's time to start asking questions again.

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie (D) suggested in an interview that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.



But no long-form birth certificate. And no typed original document like what BO has posted online. Looks like it's time to start asking questions again.

This is insanity. You do yourself such an injustice by posting such drivel, when there are real issues that matter.

[randolph]

Democrat
You have two cows
Your neighbor has none
You feel guilty for being successful
You vote people into office that put a tax on your cows, forcing you to sell one to raise money to pay the tax.
The people you vote for then take the tax money, buy a cow and give it to your neighbor.
You feel righteous.
Barbara Steisand sings for you.

Republican
You have two cows
Your neighbor has none.
So?

Socialist
You have two cows
The government takes one and gives it to your neighbor.
You form a cooperative to tell him how to manage his cow.

Communist
You have two cows.
The government seizes both and provides you with milk
You wait in line to get it.
It is expensive and sour.

American corporation
You have two cows
you sell one, lease it back to yourself and do an IPO on the 2nd one.
You force the two cows to produce the milk of four cows.
You are surprised when one cow drops dead.
You spin an announcement to the analysts stating you have downsized and are reducing expenses.
Your stock goes up.

[TracyCoxx]

Logical fallacy: Appeal to ridicule

Originally Posted by smc

This is insanity. You do yourself such an injustice by posting such drivel, when there are real issues that matter.

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Logical fallacy: Appeal to ridicule

I suggest you review what the logical fallacy called "appeal to ridicule" actually involves. I have created no straw man. You have, Tracy, by bringing up something that has nothing to do with the actual policies being implemented with which you disagree. In doing so, you seek to negate the man rather than address his policies (at least in this post and with this argument), thus contributing to the ridiculous hyperbole of others in which policies that are not that different from ones proposed by Republicans over the years (e.g., the healthcare plan is based in large part on Romney's Massachusetts plan and the plan Dole campaigned on for the presidency; etc.) are stated to be the end of our freedom, the death of America, and so on.

And before you accuse me of putting words in your mouth, note carefully that I said you are "contributing to the ridiculous hyperbole of others."

As has been pointed out on this site again and again, no matter how much civil discourse we have about politics, and no matter how substantive the discussion gets on the issues, it seems we can always count on you to revert at some point, and in some way either large or small, back to arguments and views that are facile, questionable as to their verity, and (as in this particular case) irrelevant. That is precisely what this birther crap is. When you are arguing substantively, it is obvious that you are so much smarter than those who take such crap as good coin, and it's a shame you can't seem to help but go swimming in their muck from time to time.

And before you accuse me of insulting another member of this Forum, note carefully that I am writing of your occasional opinions, not of you. You will not get ad hominem arguments out of me.

[TracyCoxx]

Appeal to Ridicule does not always involve a strawman. I did not accuse you of insulting me. I accused you of ridiculing my statement, like you said, without addressing the statement.

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Appeal to Ridicule does not always involve a strawman. I did not accuse you of insulting me. I accused you of ridiculing my statement, like you said, without addressing the statement.

You should read more carefully. My point about "insulting" was relevant to my last post, not your post that first brought up the false "logical fallacy."

And I did address your statement. It is unworthy of serious discourse. That is my response.

Again, there are serious issues to discuss. This birther crap is not among that set.

I have typically avoided political discussions on this forum mainly because, as I?ve said before, I don?t enjoy discussing complex issues unless I know who I?m talking to. Get me in a room with my students, friends, or colleagues however, and it is a completely different ballgame! One of the basic problems of online discussion is that it is next to impossible to fully argue a solution to a complex problem such as what to do about health care, global warming, or the economy in a short text response. We unfortunately tend to take a side and cling to it, failing to hear what others are saying, and then attacking or labeling their beliefs--often incorrectly.

What I have seen of political discourse on the Internet in general is discouraging. Unfortunately so is it here. The few ?political? threads I have seen on ?TLB? all seem to be dominated by the same person with the express goal of stating their own views and excluding or ridiculing all others. The same pattern occurs over and over again: whether it be universal health care, Obama?s nationality, net neutrality, or a supposed ?liberal free for all.? The stage is ?set in advance?--like a trap--with loaded arguments and titles like ?There Goes the Internet.? The issue is presented not for discussion--but rather as a challenge--to see who will dare to question the OP.

Many well thought out and reasonable arguments have indeed been presented in each thread, both for and against the OP. However almost all statements ?against? the OP have been dismissed with ridicule, denial that something was ever said, labeling, sarcastic remarks, and reliance on statements that make me think too much time is spent listening to Rush Limbaugh, watching Fox news, and not getting out of the house. Almost never is an idea attacked or supported on its own merits or with real evidence. Personally I want nothing to do with this sort of political ?discussion,? nor do I believe that it belongs in this forum.

[randolph]

Tracy, you sometimes appear to belong to the "don't confuse me with the facts crowd".
The following is an excerpt from Wikipedia.

"In 2008 the Obama campaign released his birth certificate, certified by the Hawaii Department of Health, and posted a scanned image of it online. The posted certificate states that Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, on August 4, 1961.[1] The certificate also states, "This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding". Frequent arguments of those questioning Obama's eligibility are that he has not released a photocopy of his "original" or "long form" birth certificate, but rather a redacted "short form" version. It has also been claimed that the use of the term "certification of live birth" on the document means it is not equivalent to one's "birth certificate". These arguments have been debunked numerous times by media investigations,[13] every judicial forum that has addressed the matter, and Hawaiian government officials?a consensus of whom have concluded that the certificate released by the Obama campaign is indeed his official birth certificate.[14] Asked about this, Hawaiian Department of Health spokeswoman Janice Okubo stated that Hawaii "does not have a short-form or long-form certificate".[15] Moreover, the director of her Department has confirmed that the state "has Sen. Obama?s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures".[16][17]"

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Tracy, you sometimes appear to belong to the "don't confuse me with the facts crowd".
The following is an excerpt from Wikipedia.

I admit I hadn't done my Wikipedia research. That's interesting about the long form birth certificate. Although there's a woman in a paper I saw who had twins born at the same hospital as BO on the day after he was born, and she's showed their birth certificates. I don't know if it's officially called a long form, but it requires a lot more information than BO's certificate has (image attached).

What keeps me curious is the fact that his own grandmother ID'd him at the birth canal in Kenya, and that he later had Indonesian citizenship (not dual since that was not allowed in Indonesia). And now this thing with the governor of Hawaii, who seems to be trying to help BO isn't doing him any favors LOL. And the fact that he goes to great lengths to conceal his original birth certificate isn't doing himself any favors either. Unless it doesn't exist, in which case I guess he would be doing himself a favor by refusing to show it.