What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?

[EdwardSinclair]

I wonder if there is any physicist among us that can explain this paradox to me!

From what I can understand it takes into account that the universe is finite, and that as such an immovable force cannot exist, since it would require an infinite inertia, and therefore infinite mass. Such huge weight would make the object collapse under its own weight.

Furthermore, the immovable force cannot exist with an unstoppable force, given the fact that both forces are indestructible! These theories have even challenged the concept of omnipotence.

I know that our universe is moving from scientific experiments, with stars appearing different over a millennia, and with some disappearing altogether.

What I have problems with, is understanding how the universe can be finite, if the law of conservation of energy states that energy cannot be created nor destroyed, that it merely changes from one form to another.

I have heard and read about Big Crunch and Bing Bang theories, and find them interesting, but fail to understand how the university could collapse under it's own weight, and the restart!

Just hoping someone is willing to discuss about this...

[whale]

This is a very interesting question you have, I wish I could actually discuss it in further detail but unfortunately I would be talking about things that I have no real rational understanding of. I would be very interested to hear what someone has to say about this though

[iriasky]

Originally Posted by EdwardSinclair

I wonder if there is any physicist among us that can explain this paradox to me!

From what I can understand it takes into account that the universe is finite, and that as such an immovable force cannot exist, since it would require an infinite inertia, and therefore infinite mass. Such huge weight would make the object collapse under its own weight.

Furthermore, the immovable force cannot exist with an unstoppable force, given the fact that both forces are indestructible! These theories have even challenged the concept of omnipotence.

I know that our universe is moving from scientific experiments, with stars appearing different over a millennia, and with some disappearing altogether.

What I have problems with, is understanding how the universe can be finite, if the law of conservation of energy states that energy cannot be created nor destroyed, that it merely changes from one form to another.

I have heard and read about Big Crunch and Bing Bang theories, and find them interesting, but fail to understand how the university could collapse under it's own weight, and the restart!

Just hoping someone is willing to discuss about this...

Hmmm... well, it would seem to me, just using what little logic I have, that if an unstoppable force met an immovable object it would be redirected. My reasoning for this is as follows. The immovable object cannot be moved, but the unstoppableis in constant motion, and therefore if the two met or collided, the force would be redirected into another direction, as the object cannot be removed and the force would be constant. This is entirely supposition on my part. I hope you don't mind and find it useful.

[GRH]

Simple...

God divides by zero, and a black hole is created!

[EdwardSinclair]

Thank you everyone for your contributions! I am still waiting for more inputs into this problem, and yet another one arises...

Originally Posted by GRH

Simple...

God divides by zero, and a black hole is created!

This simple realisation of yours has me both baffled and amused. Allow me to explain...

Many people talk about the eternal nature of man, the soul! Some people really believe in the afterlife, but picture what nothingness must really feel like! Go into a perfect silent room, and for a moment close your eyes and blank out your mind, and try to figure out what I mean. The biggest problem there would be self-awareness, since you would not know you are in this state. Perhaps we existed in this state even before we were born! Being self aware and stuck in nothingness is a hellish nightmare, unless you can interact.

Since energy cannot be created nor destroyed, we were all there in the beginning albeit unaware, hence we are all part of this initial driving force, which means our bodies are not ours, but rather part of this initial energy. If you believe in God, and that He created man would I be going too far to theorise that if we are made from parts of God's energy that we are Him, just as you are your parents through genetics?

You can't divide something by nothing, because the answer is unattainable, and for this very reason the number zero always fascinates me! What I came to realise is that life comes with a lot of zeros, there are a lot of those good for nothing days, where you think you've done nothing, or learnt nothing, but is it really so? Perhaps the nothing really is something, after all zero is not a number for nothing obviously.

It's funny we always start counting by what we have, which is always 1 or greater. Now to throw people off, you could just say that you have "zero" options, since to a human mind that should sound positive, because zero is neither positive nor negative, and you didn't state "not having", but I digress...

Any number divided by itself is one (with the exception of zero),
Infinity is not a number, but if it were, it would be the largest number, while zero would be the smallest number. I started thinking of Alpha and Omega, and assumed that zero could also be infinity, since infinity divided by infinity is also not equal to one, but then there are different types of infinity!

God(infinity) divided by zero(infinity) = black hole(infinity)?

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by EdwardSinclair

What I have problems with, is understanding how the universe can be finite, if the law of conservation of energy states that energy cannot be created nor destroyed, that it merely changes from one form to another.

The universe appears to be finite because it is 13.7 billion years old. Light travels at 186000 miles/second, so the further out you see something the further in the past you're looking. i.e. a galaxy that's 2 million lightyears away is 2 million years in the past. So you can't see anything further out than 13.7 billion lightyears because that would be before the big bang.

Originally Posted by EdwardSinclair

I have heard and read about Big Crunch and Bing Bang theories, and find them interesting, but fail to understand how the university could collapse under it's own weight, and the restart!

That is a theory. It depends on the amount of mass in the universe, and if it will produce enough gravity to eventually stop the expansion of the universe and bring everything back into a singularity.

Our universe is most likely a "white hole", which is the other end of a black hole. So if you've ever wanted to know what it looks like inside a black hole, just look around.

[TracyCoxx]

Edward, you mentioned Nothingness. Some people wonder how the universe could have come from nothing? That is an assumption - one that I believe, otherwise the implication is that there was always something, and that doesn't make sense to me. On the other hand, I have no idea how something could come from nothing either.

My concept of nothing is this: Not just empty space, but no space. Space is something. It's a place where objects can move and exist. I'm talking about no space at all. And space isn't just space, it's space-time. So no time either. Nothingness is devoid of anything that can be described or labeled. There are many types of possible universes, and their "signature" is their number and types of dimensions. Our universe has 3 spatial dimensions that we are familiar with, one time dimension, and several other dimensions that are very small and undetectable. Universes can have other configurations and even multiple time dimensions. Nothingness would have zero dimensions.

So with that said I am really baffled at how the universe could arise from Nothingess. But at the same time it would be baffling how there could always be something. Anytime there is something, you would ask where did it come from? Why is it there? That's what I ask about God. If there is a God, where did he come from? That a supernatural all powerful all intelligent omniscient being would come from nothing seems even more bizarre than a natural physical universe somehow arising. Yet this is what most people believe.

[randolph]

Dark energy has thrown a monkey wrench into the whole idea of big bangs, time and space time. We now discover that something (dark energy) is causing the universe to accelerate its expansion (the big bank was based on a collapsing universe). So dark energy causes the universe to accelerate because the particles of dark energy repel each other? Supposedly dark energy is much more abundant in the universe than observable energy (mass). Now scientists are claiming that light coming from the center of our galaxy is produced by dark energy bumping into each other. It's all very confusing. I think I will go back to thinking about sex.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Supposedly dark energy is much more abundant in the universe than observable energy (mass). Now scientists are claiming that light coming from the center of our galaxy is produced by dark energy bumping into each other.

I haven't heard about that one. There is a super massive black hole at the center of our galaxy and other galaxies. It has the mass of millions of suns. And they've actually seen stars there in the center of the galaxy orbiting nothing. Very cool.

You're right about dark energy throwing a monkey wrench in things. But that's good though. When we find something like that unexpected it seems like a setback, but it is most always followed by several advances in physics.

[Hedonistman]

Where'd u cum w/the idea that the universe IS finite ? The universe is constantly expanding,,, ipso facto,,, it is not finite. As for the rest,,, as far as I know,, we, do not know if there is/are any 'forces' which can not be stopped. The 'law' goes: an object in motion will stay in motion, unless or until it is met by an opposing object,, of =mass, and velocity. This is called 'collision',, lol. As far as we know of/about the nature of our universe,,,, the more we know, (learn) the more we realize how much,,, wayyyyy much,,, more,,, we don't know.

[mabedzaqueen]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Edward, you mentioned Nothingness. Some people wonder how the universe could have come from nothing? That is an assumption - one that I believe, otherwise the implication is that there was always something, and that doesn't make sense to me. On the other hand, I have no idea how something could come from nothing either.
If there is a God, where did he come from? That a supernatural all powerful all intelligent omniscient being would come from nothing seems even more bizarre than a natural physical universe somehow arising.

First, i wanna thank Edward for having started this thread...
Now Tracy, i just don't see why (or rather, how) something inanimate would not have ?always been there?... Simply because minerals, as opposed to animals and vegetals, have no life in them!! I suppose a kind of superior being must have provided at least the "spark" that allowed forms of life to develop on this planet (and possibly elsewhere), but where the heck does that force come from? A sort of intelligent form of energy that once was present in our solar system??

Also, i've noted time is considered as a "dimension"... but it seems to me that the universe doesn't give a shit about time! Like everything inanimate, the universe simply exists, that's all... Nobody created it... To me, time matters only to what's alive... I don't think it deserves all the hype it gets
______
Dennis.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by mabedzaqueen

Now Tracy, i just don't see why (or rather, how) something inanimate would not have ?always been there?... Simply because minerals, as opposed to animals and vegetals, have no life in them!! I suppose a kind of superior being must have provided at least the "spark" that allowed forms of life to develop on this planet (and possibly elsewhere), but where the heck does that force come from? A sort of intelligent form of energy that once was present in our solar system??

Exactly... if you're saying a superior being is required to provide the "spark" to begin life, you can't ignore that a superior being is loitering around and where did he come from? The superior being argument just defers the problem without getting rid of it.

As for how inanimate matter becomes alive, this is something that happens over billions of years. It has been observed that asteroids do contain organic molecules and amino acids. It has also been demonstrated in the lab that simulate certain types of meteorite strikes (i.e. glancing blows) that these amino acids do survive impact. It has also been demonstrated that these molecules can combine into more complex amino acids during impact. There's all kinds of events that happen to alter organic compounds. Some of these after happening many times eventually produce interesting results. Some of those even create cycles between compounds that end up reproducing themselves. Over billions of years these become complex enough that you'd call it life. Life is made up of the same stuff that inanimate matter is made up of.

Originally Posted by mabedzaqueen

Also, i've noted time is considered as a "dimension"... but it seems to me that the universe doesn't give a shit about time! Like everything inanimate, the universe simply exists, that's all... Nobody created it... To me, time matters only to what's alive... I don't think it deserves all the hype it gets

The universe does change over time, but much of it happens very slowly which gives the impression that the universe doesn't give a shit about time. Look far enough away (and therefore far enough back in time) and you'll see that stars were only made up of hydrogen, unlike now where they have heavier elements. Go back even further, and atoms didn't even exist in their present form - so inanimate objects certainly have not always existed. Go far into the future and stars will eventually run out of fuel and turn off. The universe will be dark.

[randolph]

Basically, we are dealing with two realities. The reality that we can see and measure, the visible universe. The other reality is dark energy that we cannot see but we can indirectly measure. Until we develop ways to measure and observe the dark energy, which is the predominate energy in the universe, we will be unable to fully understand what is going on. Possibly the visible universe is nothing more than foam resting on top of a sea of dark energy.