[Bionca]

Originally Posted by johndowe

HI there.

Before i read your reply on the "Post Op Reason" thread i started, i was ok abou t the word "shemale" after reding it, i'm not so confortable about it, because of you, i realized that it is disrespectfull.

And i understand that most of the guys here are objectifying girls like you, but aren't guys that go to strip clubs, buy men's magazines objectifying women also? and those women and girls like you, aren't they objectifying themselves intentionally, to make a living?

The MARTHYR?

The only ones that want to be marthys are terrorists and in the end do they accomplish that, maby amongst their own, maby, but not anywhere else, also playing the victim may get some sympathy, but only for you and very little for your cause, and it IS weak, when i get in a confrontational situation, i do my best to do so form a position of strenght, cause if you start from a position of weakness, well winning is almost not an option.

When i said: "You attract more flies with honey than vinegar" i didn't mean attracting dates, i meant attracting people to your "cause", but i understand about the swatting.

Also i almost forgot that i ALMOST had a 1 night stand wit a girl like you, i had spent the evening with her, and spent quite a bit on the drinks, then at her place she wanted to charge me $50.00 to have sex with her, i didn't expect her to put out because i had spent some money on her, but if she was ok with spendong more time with me at her place, great, but i objected to paying her for sex, and the fact that i only had $30-35 left, so i left as she said that ALL the girls charged, well guess what i was put off and i never went back there.

AND when i left the club with her i went out the front door and i wasn't ashamed to be with her, and everybody that was near to the club knew that it was a tgirl club, and she was one of the nicest looking girls there.

So, the problem isn't just the guys objectifying the girls, but also the girls objectifying themselves, your goal shouldn't be to try to change the guys, but to get the message out that tgirls as other women aren't sex objects but are only human beeings that have feelings and asperations, and in order to make a living objectify themselves, and as such should not be disrespected or looked down upon.

I hope you will continue your "vigil" but i do respect the fact that it is your decision, i have said what i had to say, i will ansewer you, should you ask me something, but i will mo longer pester you about it.

JohnDowe.

I'm glad you realize that "shemale" is not a generally accepted universally loved term by trans women.

I don't have any issue at all with sex work. If the women has a free choice to get into and maintain that line of work, and men are willing to pay for the products/services - everyone wins. Part of the issue is that most people ONLY know trans women from porn. Not because there aren't trans gals doing other stuff, because that isn't the case. So unlike GGs TGs are only encountered in one specific way, there is no balance to maintain realism. Part of the role trans women have to take (and many many have) is to educate - but without people willing to listen and learn no amount of education is going to work. Also, at some point the educated really must start to help do the education.

Martyrs are simply people who die for a cause who are then used at a rallying point. Mr Milk's death absolutely made him a martyr - the gay political movement was galvanized by his murder and the results of the trial. We have plenty of murdered trans women, I don't particularly need or want to fill that role.

I wasn't talking about dating with my "honey and vinegar" comment. I was talking about how I address the guys here. I'm not always going to be the voice of unquestioning support and comfort. Sometimes frustration and even anger needs to be heard before people understand that something is hurtful.

Like I said, gals making money and guys spending money isn't my issue. Assuming that women of any type who do sex work are less worthy of respect or are simply objects is a problem. A common problem, but still a problem.

Also, I'm curious what you think I have been doing if not trying to get the message out that trans women are human beings? Part of that IS changing how men see trans women - pointing out how attitudes, reflected in words, contributes to an often particularly dangerous world for trans women to navigate.