fear
 

Hi I had never have sex with a shemle or ladyboy I really do but I fear it I don't know why
Did any one go throw what I am going throw

Fear not.
If its only a whim of yours, get experienced.
If its an intimate relationship, enjoy every single moment.
Why fear?

What are you afraid of? Social stigma? being thought of as "gay"? specific sexual acts? Not liking it once you start it? Something else?

Well I fera what people will say and what if I like it then what where will it end .

he probably fears that it will be TOO amazing !!!

:drool:

I could understand if you feel apprehension for your first experience with a shemale, and I would definitely suggest that you work through it. Get to the other side of it.

Like Bionca said, what is there to be afraid of? Social stigma? homophobia?
My response to both of those is "fuck it!" I don't give a rats ass what society thinks of me or finds what I do unacceptable to them as long as I'm not a threat to society. And I'm not.

Being gay? So what? Accept it and enjoy it. Besides, its none of people's business what yours or my sexual preferences may or may not be, again, as long as I'm no threat to society, which I am not.

Life is too short, don't let fear slow you down. Live and love to the fullest. There may not be a tomorrow to do it.

Fearing what people may say I can understand. The thing is, think of the transwomen who have to deal with that fear all day every day. Though, for us what people say often translates into what people DO. So, sure I get the fear, but I live with it and live my life - with COURAGE and DIGNITY, I would hope that a man could muster a fraction of the courage and dignity of a transwoman - but I'm often wrong in cases like this.

What if you like it? I suppose you'd like it then don't you?

I simply cannot deal with all those selfrighteous guys and their petty-angst for what will mama and uncle say about me and a DANGEROUS transsexual woman...

The angst is beyond being just ridiculous - the fact is that they are stealing aways one of the greatest joys they can have to find themselves.

It's time we start looking at this seriously and not just as an idiotic sexual infatuation. Being with a transsexual woman, of course, has sexual implications - as being with any other girl has. But in the end that's not the point. And if a guy can be honest enuff with himself to admit that a transsexual woman brings him more joy than a cisgendered girl on all accounts, then what is there to hesitate about?

But maybe it also takes courage to be a HETEROGAY as well as it takes guts to be a transsexual...

What can we do? Will you marry me, Bionca? ;-)

:innocent:

H

It absolutely takes courage to be open about an attraction to trans*women. It takes guts to admit an attraction that doesn't fit neatly into the one man/one woman (genetic of course) dynamic.

Unfortunately, I think most men are cowards in their personal life. I'm going to get all feminist and political here for a second....


so I'll shut up now.


I know I have more balls then any man I have dated/slept with/met for drinks/turned down.. and I'm a HUGE wuss in most respects.

some people just need to think "right whats the point in being in this rut of not being bold enough and push forward" i for one agree with hankhavelock and bionca

Um... forgive me for asking but... how big are your balls?

Bionca turns out to be a hardcore Man-Hater feminist!
Yet she looks forward to date with those cowards!
What a contradiction that is!

Twistedone:
Bravo! Great speech. Thats the independent spirit!:respect:

I am a feminist, and I love men. I do think that *most* (not all) men are cowards in their personal lives. Like I have as my sig.....

Bionca... this could actually be a thread on its own and I think many would agree with you but they don't have the courage to admit it. Many men are too proud and macho to let their guard down for a second and become vulnerable which would in turn show the world who they really are. the sad thing is that the person that they really are is probably a good, decent person who wants to be kind to others. This is not to say that they still wouldn't rather watch a slam bang no holds barred action thriller with lots of violence, swearing and nudity over say... When Harry met Sally but I think you know what I mean.

"I know what u'r thinking, punk... did she "fire" six times or only five... xxx..."

Yep, I definitely LOOOVE some action, especially when combined with a wee bit of romance ;-)

I just never really digged the "pride-thing". I'm NOT with transsexual women because it may be particularly "cool", but F*** it IS cool too... there's nothing better than to arrive at some club (or go to the mall, for that matter) as a couple... and she is a "he". I admit to really enjoying that part... :-) I BASK in the astonished looks from the cisgendered on-lookers when we appear hand-in-hand and openly kissing and enjoying each other in full public. It's BEAUTIFUL! And also very real and very true!

I have never had a trans-gf that I was not truly PROUD to show off and be with.

And I'm not special AT ALL! All you guys can do the same. It's all a matter of having a bit of confidense and to realize that you do what you really like - and remember, the courage that YOU show is NOTHING compared to the guts of a transsexual woman! So respect her and enjoy the fact that she has chosen YOU as her escort - whether it's just for a date or as her companion.

Being with a trans-girl is special! And it's never seized to fill me with awe and pride. It's the same as being with a cisgendered girl in many ways, ofcourse, but it's still SO beautiful and special... it fills you with warmth and pride in a totally unique way. You feel at HOME finally...

Hmmm... oh well... what more can I say? I better shut up :-)

H

The Joy of Transsex
 

We need a new sexual revolution. And just as "The Joy of Sex" carried the 60s to a wider public, so you will have to write and publish "The Joy of Transsex". :)

Seriously, it's good to read what you have to say, and your enthousiasm is infectious. Keep it coming!

M

I, ofcourse, know, that u'r shitting me a lill bit here in a friendly way, Marlowe ;-)

Well, funnily, my sweet Fey (my First, my Goddess and all that) suggested something similar last weekend as we had out weekly cooking-day. "Honeeey, you really have a unique story to tell - u'r journey has been so interesting for us all... write a book, darling... many people are dreaming to do what you have done..." Yeah right :-)

I have, how ever, seriously been considering to throw myself into a self-financed PhD-study at Honkong University, where Dr. Sam Winther is having a very good program dealing with transgender-studies in Southeast Asia. But time is obviously lacking. I'd LOVE to do a Kinsey-report on transsexuality here in good old Indonesia. I actually already have it lined up :-)

But here I am, just a dumb lill brand-designer with a Master's degree in design and not the needed time :-(

But I admit, that it would be nice.

H

Hank:
Hank, my man, go right ahead. Your research will be an original piece of work, a study with materials based on your first hand experience. It will not be the usual dry, drowsy sheaf of papers, with little relation to reality. Charge...:respect:

That statement is absolutely true. Men, who have achieved great things, who are really macho, even they feel nerous about what other people will think. The Transwomen wage a lifelong war on such concepts. Thats why I admire them so much. (I dont play pocket pool, though! ;))

Originality I'm certain I'd be able to provide :-) Even something of value for a few wannabees out there who just need a bit of encouragement. Whether I could write something much longer than a forum posting that's bearable English reading is another matter - mind you, English is not my first language, and even though I do write fairly well in Danish, I don't have the elegant vernacular of writers such as you, Marlowe or Bionca.

Hank, I have been kicking around the same idea - writing a book that is. I'm cutting my teeth with a friend by doing a little blog. If you need any help I'll be happy to.

That statement is absolutely true. Men, who have achieved great things, who are really macho, even they feel nerous about what other people will think. The Transwomen wage a lifelong war on such concepts. Thats why I admire them so much. (I dont play pocket pool, though! ;))[/QUOTE]

I don't buy that for a minute!! - hands above the table gents!!!

To be serious, I think this is part of the problem with seriously dating a trans* woman. Partly because guys are scared of what people think, and partly because by the time a TG is "full time" she's been through a little personal slice of hell. I know that I get angry, cranky, upset ... down right pissed when I hear about a friend whose date "isn't comfortable in public with her". I figure she's had to become comfortable in public with herself 24/7, and some guy can't muster the sack to spend a few hours??. It's that fear and the expectations on both sides of the date that make it difficult (at least in the West).

Hank! Come on, my friend, get off it.:p
I love to read your posts. They have substance.:respect:

[Well, most of Hankhavelock's posts have original material.
Some are too original, like the one about volcanic spunk ;)
Still Hank is a good writer, he has clarity and balls to speak up]

Not everyone is scared of what others think. I don't care at all what someone else would think or say if I was out with a TG.
My biggest concern would be for the girl when others would say "What the heck is she doing out with him"

Well I was having some fun with "The Joy of Sex" thing but no, I'm not shitting you H. I meant what I said about your enthusiasm. And that's the point; your enthusiasm, and passion, and your experience will carry you a long way if you want to try and write something. It helps a lot if someone has something to say and believes in it. Your English is fine and you can always find someone to proof read and help with the fine tuning of language.
Like you say time is a big issue, I think it takes a lot of time and commitment to write something substantial. The Phd at Honkkong sounds a really interesting idea so I hope if it's what you want to do you can find a way to make it work.

Bionca's blog?
 

Hey Bionca, is your blog up? Will you let us know about it?

M

Well, thank you again :-) Hmmm, I do admit that I feel I have a lot to say and tell about this my absolute favourite topic... I used to be quite active on a Danish forum as well. I was interesting to learn about trans-life in my old country - VERY different from here, I'd say.

What I appreciated about this here forum from the beginning, how ever, was the good-natured tone and what seemed to be a healthy interest in debating matters in a constructive way. And blissfully free of flaming and blaming. I also find it important that we're both girls and guys here sharing thoughts, wishes and experiences.

A PhD is currently not possible for me - simply because of the time such a project requires. When I said Kinsey-style study I was actually not kidding. And it would do a lot of good here to cast light on transsexual existense in this amazing land. It would, how ever, demand for not only a full time approach but also for substantial amounts of money as I would not be able to conduct all the necessary interviews myself - in other words, I'd have to hire and train assistants to actually go out there in the field and do the interviews. This is not per se impossible - I'm fairly well connected in the LGBT-community here, but it's just not realistic for me right now. Of course, I could (and probably would) limit my initial approach to the Jakarta area - a cute lill town of 23 mill. ppl :-) but it'd still be somewhat of a task...

Hmmm... but a little book? That does seem more manageable right now. And with a wee help from my friends... ;-)

Let's say I'll throw myself into it. What narrative concept would you then suggest? I can immediately say that my goal with such a publication (in which ever form it would have) would be exactly the same as here: via my own example to try to make the good folks realize that it is indeed possible to follow your heart and reap the fruits - that there really IS no reason to be afraid. It would also be a combination of illustrative examples and my own evolved "pocket-philosophies" which are obviously 100% empiric and not in any ways based on anything scientific.

I can also say that even though there would be some mildly juicy parts, then the sexual part of it would be very minor (just enuff to make the "dry stuff" go down as well :-)) Remember, that writing at a forum like this, where I'm among friends, is a totally different story than going public like that - and the last thing I'd want would be to enhance the lay-ppl's biases that we're a bunch of oversexed freaks :-) So the emotional content - which is btw also 1000 times more important to me than the sexual one - I can't BELIEVE I'm writing this...:-) - would be the focus.

What do you think?

H

Oh, should I decide to go ahead with it, that would surely be appreciated!

Yep, part of the problem. But I sense that an equally big part of the problem is that they may be scared of themselves and their attraction - OMG!!!! Am I gay??? The question you encounter constantly.

Well what you say here shows you already have a good feel for what you might do and IMO it fits. My thoughts: Yes, it's narrative, it's in the genre 'narrative nonfiction' or 'creative nonfiction', or to use a more old fashioned term 'memoir'. 'Narrative' is important: it should have a beginning, a middle, and an end; ie. arrival in Indonesia, encounters with transgender folk, revelation (where that journey has brought you to now).

Hmm... clearly this is the underlying theme and important, but in the first instance I think your goal should be to tell your story in a way that engages readers. How you describe experiences, encounters, discoveries, etc. is the substance. Simply banging on (excuse the pun) about your beliefs could become tiring.

That's the great thing about memoir, it can easily include episodes that are either more expository or persuasive in intention.

Agreed. You have an interesting viewpoint as a foreigner in Asia. Most peoples awareness, if any, is of Thailand as a ladyboy play4pay tourist paradise. I think it's to your advantage that your experiences are in Indonesia where the transgender scene is not so hyped.
Also I think it's tricky to pull off the sex stuff, unless what you wanted to write was in the 'sex confessional' genre. Mostly that genre is sensationalist and shallow. There was a book a few years ago called "The Surrender" by a ballet dancer called Toni Bentley which was about her discovery of, and passion for, anal sex. It made a bit of a splash and was described as a 'sodomy memoir'!

Yes! That's why I think it's a good story to tell.

I reckon you should try to sketch out a structure; key events, encounters, people, that sort of thing, and see if it starts to form a sequence. That shouldn't take long. Grab a pencil, paper, a couple of Bintangs (do they still have that?), or better still some of that strong javanese coffee, find some shade and off you go.

U can count on it, mate!!! And they a colder than ever! :-)

Very good points, thank u - ok, I guess, I'll give it a go...

Cheers!

H

Hank nailed it
 

This thread has taken an interesting turn!

Hank absolutely nailed it:

The emotional content -- that's really why I joined this forum. The pics are great, but I'm really much more interested in matters of the heart. Why do we humans behave the way we do? We are such amazing creatures once we step beyond the bogus boundaries of "thou shalt not."

This transsexual phenomenon is endlessly fascinating, and deserves a thorough scientific study as well as memoirs and documentaries. I agree with Hank that a proper study would take a lot of time and money to do it right. A memoir seems much more feasible, and after reading your posts, I'm convinced you could do a fabulous job, Hank! You already have a lot of fans eagerly awaiting your memoir.

The transsexual impulse has always been there in our species, and deserves a historical survey in its own right. But only recently have all the factors come together -- almost total freedom if you've got the money to pay for it; hormones; electrolysis; implants; reconstructive surgery -- to allow a man to transform himself into an amazing facsimile of a genetic woman... what is, for all practical purposes, an entirely new sex. And after all is said and done, when we look at a transwoman we are looking at the outward manifestation of an inner impulse. And it's this inner impulse that fascinates me so much. By any definition, a transwoman is an artist, and her canvas is her own body. Transwomen are taking body modification to unprecedented new heights of creativity.

What is this inner impulse that drives a person to go through all the time, money, pain and discouragement to complete this transformation? An amazing amount of dedication, determination, focus, and sheer grit is necessary to complete the task. Transwomen are admirable beyond compare.

Thanks to everybody for stimulating this and all the other discussions.

yup it's laughriotgirl.blogspot.com So far it my friend and I complaining about random stuff

The emotional content is what matters. I've been a bad boy and all that shit - still am I guess - but that´s not related to my lovers' gender. The sole fact remains that only with a sweet, dear, gorgeous, wonderful, grrr, intelligent, academic, super, DEEP trans-woman do I feel truly "at home".

And ain't NO WAY that's gonna change... been with cisgendered ladies also in my path, obviously, but the fact remains, that they simply don't make me rock'n roll any more... oh well... no, they don't...

Let me illustrate what I mean by an example: I went out (this is actually a long time ago, but it sticks to me) with gorgeous Melanie. She was in a personal turmoil. Should she go to live with that German guy who offered her gold and green pastures and who was a gay man, or should she stay true to the trans-part of herself that could never feel truly satisfied by a mere homosexual relationship? Mel is not a full-timer, but she has transsexuality in her in a very beautiful way.

She was crying (her sweet make up was aestetically and dramatically running down her fabulous face), I kissed her tears, and in the end she chose to go with that man - only to return two weeks later, because it didn't rock her either.

And that's neither the first nor the last time I've been a witness to that story.

So unless the emotions are totally there, then there really is no point! BUT this is part of the transsexual dilemma that makes me go crazy. Both in a positive and negative way. I get frustrated when she talks about giving up her female side for some gay dude... on the other hand I realize that she may need it to get closer to her self. And in the end they all come back - of course, because being a trans woman is not about "some guy" - it's about finding one self in a bumped but beautiful way to a kind of self-recognition that very, very few people will ever have the courage or privilege to reach in life.

That's why!

H

Thx, will def look into the grumbles and rumbles.

I am New here same I mever see shemale before but my ex girlfriend for short time, she is half woman and man and she is no penis and has pussy so I am from OkC in Oklahoma. I am nice meeting you all.

i came into this thread looking for advice about how to prepare myself for my first intimate rendezvous with a shemale. i've never had anything inserted before. i guess i could look for a nearby sex shop and get a dildo, though i'm sure most people already know it's not the same. what i've found is something much better. despite the fact that as a civilization we have evolved massively since even as liitle as 50 years ago, there are several things that are considered unmentionable, even taboo. i think the main reason internet porn is so huge is because people don't have to worry what others think of them because they'll never know. it's kind of sad that the nation we live in cultivates the notion that if you aren't a certain way, then you should feel ashamed and embarassed. so here's your outlet and don't let anyone else know about it. not that i'm comparing love of shemales to it, but in a way, the stigma still applies. people are still constantly beaten and killed because of their closet or open homosexuality. the same applies for certain customs and beliefs. it makes me think that we as a species are programmed to find conflict, because look at the trivial things we fight and kill over even though we've come all this way. people lie all the time when they say they accept something, and then it's a big controversy when the are discovered saying in private the contrary. ordinary people and world leaders, when you disect the humanity in each, aren't all that different. it's evident especially in government, look at how much the constitution in it's original form has changed as compared to the way things are now. our country is great, in some ways better than the situation of other nations, but it is far from the way our forefathers envisioned it over 230 years ago. but now i'm ranting, anyway i wish that literature expressing our sexual preference could be taken seriously, but it seems this world is not yet ready to be so accepting as to understand that even the word 'normal' can be descriminating. who's to say what is normal? only our creator(s) (and so as not to start any kind of religious discussion, i won't go into specifics as to why i wrote it the way i did) have that knowlege. or in aethiasts' case, no one. and be that as it may, i think us being alive renders everything we do okay (using common sense to determine bad things). so only we can decide when to begin the process of unjudgemental unity. who knows, if you find the right way to do it, because obviously you can't force your beliefs on someone else (just look at the war for reference on how that turns out, even the very word itself is rooted in that fact), a truly peaceful world may be a possible reality.

I keep reading these posts and find myself in a small space between agreement and a lack of the other persons perspective.

I like TG ladies from a sexual point of view and found them attractive enough to get some experience with an escort. It was fantastic, very different. When I say different I dont just mean from the point of view of a cock instead of a pussy. The experience had a side to it that was different from an emotional and cerebal point of view, not just physically.

I'm drawn to this difference in the same way I get interested in any subject which is new. Its never been my intention to have a full relationship with a TG Lady because for the longest time I really did not think they existed. My understanding was of a guy in drag, guys are not my thing and it seems neither are gay guys.

So, does that make me a coward for not admitting my passion to others ? I dont think so, my brother is gay and I defend that right regardless of who is listening. Infact I feel it's important to do so. I think everyone has the right to be who they want and I will defend that right to whoever is listening.

Would I marry a TG lady ? Thats a really difficult question for me. It's the person I fall in love with and not the gender. Guys bore me compared with females and gay guys fall into a category that actually makes me uneasy despite my acceptance.

From the posts on this forum TG ladies seem incredibly feminine, but absolutely not gay, that means it might be possible to have that level of relationship (if I wasn't already in a great relationship with my wife, I mean cheating is cheating). It's such a rare thing that finding true love amongst a tiny percentage of the population makes the chances of success far less.

I cant say that I would go out to date only TG Ladies though and I am certain that if my experience was only with TS ladies then I would soon be considering the possibilities of straight females.

i have the same fear and don't know what to do...

You were born fearless
 

First let us define FEAR
For
Every
Action
Reaction

All you fears were learned or programmed into you by your parents, family, school, church etc etc etc.

When you were a baby you had no fear of anything as everything was a brand new experience. The problem with humans is they keep thinking that someone else knows what is best for them. What a crock of shit. You know you better than anyone else. Forget what everybody else says, follow your heart and do what you want to do. The current belief systems on this planet are in need of great change, for centuries people have cried and hined for change, now it is here and some of so called society don't like it. When was the last time you seen a baby come with an operators manual? Just follow what cums natural. Go for it, if you don't like it, don't do it. If you like it, good for you. Just look at the name of this forum and remember that as a baby you were curious about everything. You are still that baby, but now trapped in an adult body. :respect: yourself, go for it.

I hear you uaeman, I just came from the "Animal" forum, where they talked about the joy of loving Mr. Ed, earlier I was on the Whips and Chains dating site, I may go visit NAMBLA later.
I would have to say the only reason I would want to suck a dick is because of Cathy, everyone agreed she was the nicest prostitute ever. Her blowjobs...I was jealous of how good she was and how much she must have enjoyed it, how much she aimed to please. She always talked about her three kids in California, she was trying to save up enough cash to buy a van and go out there. She ODed on Coke, her friends hit the wrong vein.
When it comes to sexual adventures, mama's boys are way down on the list.
Prostitutes, gay blades, gigalos, serial killers, pedophiles, even some jerk-offs have amazing colorful sex lives.
But don't judge a guy who loves his parents, marries his ligh school sweetheart and raises a beautiful family. Who's to say?
Sometimes fear is OK.

The Fear
 

My biggest fear was that I would like it, and tried to avoid situations that presented opportunities. It was of being gay. Of course, I never considered bi-sexuality--practicing or not--which is what most of the guys on this board are or were.

Why are there no cries into the darkness of: OMG, I'm bi??

Once you accept being Bi as who you are, it's no biggie. Unless it's between her soft thighs.

Yes! The structure can even be Campbellian. That is:

DEPARTURE (Beginning)

INITIATION (Middle)

RETURN (End)

Joseph Campbell was really writing about the emancipating function of mythology and the way it seemed to fit within this basic structure. It's more mental / spiritual than physical / literal, too -- i.e. you don't necessarily have to physically depart (though travel and displacement are recurrent metaphors in mythology) but you instead depart from your old beliefs and limitations as an individual, becoming more aware of the "larger world" (a Star Wars quote) around you, going through trials (and error ;) ) in one's initiation and returning or reconciling with one's old self with the "boon" (a Campbell quote) of new knowledge and understanding, garnered directly through experience.

If the book was written in THAT manner, then it might read as a powerful statement about the liberating function of life for those bold enough to embrace it. In this respect, it would also RAISE AWARENESS in others as to their own dogmas and prejudices and ENCOURAGE them to move beyond their fears. I'm sure Hank already has this intuitive awareness and would accordingly make an excellent storyteller. If you've really got a story to tell, the book should almost write itself.

Anyway, there have been some really insightful and articulate replies in this thread, all coming from unique angles. This is the sort of thread that validates the "Shemale-Chat" forum and the board's continued importance beyond titillation.