Transexuals through history
 

Well, my question is unusual, but maybe here are members, who are historiers or archeologists or just people, who knows if that kind of historical researches were done. Transsexual persons are not something, what happened only in last century, but were for sure also in other historical times and societies. I know history and archeology only in last times research life of ordinary people, but would be interesting to see, how different societies in different times see and relate with trans persons and how they try to help them.

Maybe the most interesting could be ancient Egyptians, because they were very free and open society, who respect every life, be it of human, be it of animal and where males and females have the same rights, legal protection and freedom and were equal, because in their religion gods and godesses works as devine couples. Egyptians were also very strict to write everything and they left a lot of mummified bodies, scientists could research. They have also very advanced medicine and kirurgy for their time. I wonder how they see transpersons? Did they see them as ill or mad persons or they accept and understand them and try to help them as they could. Of course they could not change their bodies as we could now, but there are also very interesting statues of Pharaoh Ehnathon, which have very feminine curves.

Moderators could place this treat in more proper section if this not belong here.

I watched a documentary on History channel about ancient plastic surgery, which talk about ancient Indian, ancient Egyptian and ancient Greeco-Roman surgery. They knew a lot of surgery procedures, which were reinvented in modern times and written in their medicine books and scriptures. They didn't have silicone implants or laser technics as we have today and we still don't know what kind of anestezy the used, but they were able to do some plastic surgery. They assume that famous Egyptian queen Nefertiti have face surgery to be the one of perfect face.

Seeing as someone done gone mentioned Egypt, check this one out: http://heritage-key.com/blogs/ann/tr...eum-collection

Thank you for link. Interesting reading. Fact, that mummy have penis, but in scriptures is addressed to be female actually show, that Egyptians recognize transwoman to be a woman, although they were not able to change her completely to woman. It would be interesting to see or read one day, how far ancient medicine could help transpeople in their transition or if there are scriptures about their lives in society.

Hoover was a crossed dresser, Ed Wood was a crossdresser, one of the last sitting Ceasers of Rome was a Tranny of course she came out after becoming a ceaser.her name slips my mind, but needless to say she didn't last long before she was assasinated.

You are correct, it was emperor Elegabalus (218-222), who prostitute himslef with a wig as woman and offer a vast sums of money to physician, who could make him female genitalia. He was killed by praetorian guard, be it for his sexual orientation, be it for other reasons, as many other emperors.

Interesting is his idea to have sex change operation. It seems that surgery in that time was very advanced and they did various plastic surgeries, of course for a lot of money, that that kind of idea become an offer. Maybe medicine in that ancient time know it is possible, just no one want to take that risk.

http://en-gb.facebook.com/topic.php?...43908&topic=74

http://www.sliceofscifi.com/2008/05/...n-transsexual/

http://www.prntrkmt.org/geography/nile.html

Few interesting articles.

Egyptian Nile river God/Goddess Hapi is both fully male God and fully female Goddess.

Of course example or few examples are not representative, but it seems there are more mummies in female coffins and addressed with female names, but with male body/genitals. This is interesting, because Egyptians took afterlife very serious and they knew, that a person could reach afterlife in underworld only if Gods recognize him/her with his correct name. They bury transwoman in female coffin and with female name although born in male body, what could show they recognize her to be a woman and it seems Gods were also fine with that, after all Hapi was a deity in both genders.

It seems that in some ancient societies transgender people were recognized, respected and had the same rights as all other citizens. Today they are fighting for the rights and recognition, which they already have in past and it is not something they never have before.

Well now there is some interesting reading.

Let's not leave out the experience of the French explorers Louis Joliet and Jacques Marquette. As they crossed the American continent in the 1670s, they came upon the Illini tribe (for whom Illinois is named). They wrote in their journal that there was a group of Illini men who acted out the social role of women in the tribe and even dressed in women's clothes ... what the tribe called "Ikoneta." Joliet called them "berdache."

Polynesia
 

There's an ancient tradition in Polynesia of "mahu", raising a first son as a girl. Apparently still practiced to some extent, and seems to have spun off today's "rae rae" in Tahiti.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xaln-yAAZck

I surprised that no one has mentioned Christina Jorgenson yet. I read her biography when I was young. As I read about her life I was fascinated with reading about the first person known to have sexual reassignment surgery in 1952. I readily identified with her feelings and respect her courage to be a pioneer in something that has become fairly common in today's society. I'm not sure society is anymore open minded about girls like me, but I think that technology and the Internet has made the world a smaller place. It's easier for transgenders and those that are attracted to them to connect. That is a good thing! This is a link to an article about Miss Jorgenson.


http://www.transgenderzone.com/featu...eJorgensen.htm

In Greeco-Roman they show god/dess Hermaphrodite as woman with penis and Greeks make statues of male form of goddes Aphrodita named Aphroditus as woman who lift her skirt to show penis.

Ancient societies also talk about third gender, which was quite wide term and they are not only eunuchs. Many transgender persons serve as priests in goddess cult, where they often castrate themselves and live as woman like Gallae priest in Cybile mother goddess cult. Romans tolerate them, but Roman citizens were not allowed to be priests in the cult.

Very interesting topic, I'll hit the books.

Tennis
 

Is anyone aware of a male tennis player who was reasigned female? I did a search, but couldn't find anything.

Well, if I'd had the name to start with, it would have been different!;)

A statue of sleepy Hermaphrodite. A beautiful statue was Borghese from Roman era.

It seems ancient Eastern Mesopotamian societies like Sumer or Hitites quite respect transsexual priestesses and see them as divine gift and mediator with gods, because they have both poles in one person. They see transsexual priestesses as called from Goddess to became woman and priestess and were under her protection. Later Roman males (and in other patriarhal societies) feared to be called from Goddess. In Sumer, for man having sex with Assinnu priestess in temple was blessing from goddess herself and all troubles will leave the man.

Similar to Phosphora, it is difficult to find any history pertaining transexualism besides a sculpure or two. Can't say either way, but sculpures did not last all these ages to meld modern lies.

Is there anyplace that you can purchase a reproduction of this sculpture? Seems fairly unheard of.

Sumer legend of goddess Inanna. Asushunamir were created to resque goddess Inanna from underworld back to the World. Although they were cursed, they are under goddedd Inanna protection. Ancient people believe, that trans people were called by goddess herself, mother goddess.

Roman goddess Venus Castina was associated with male to female transsexuals.

When the World will return to mother nature, transexuals will again receive their respect and place in society and be her beloved priestesses.

Sosed, would you please give me a source for the quote in your post? Obviously it's a version of 'Innana's Descent into the Underworld' but not one I recognise. I would really appreciate a reference

Thanks in advance

This is an interesting site regarding the myth of Innana.
http://www.faerywolf.com/myth_asushunamir.htm

Not sure if it has been mentioned , as I am new here, but "Saraph" mention in Greek, Latin, Hebrew and even Christian literature (angel hierarchy) is said to have female angelic body features and both sets of genitals as well. Including breasts of course.

Some sources for Istar / Inanna legend.

http://crimsonwolfe.tripod.com/id53.html

http://www.inanna.virtualave.net/asushunamir.html

http://www.reocities.com/Athens/olympus/2179/

http://ecclasia.com/inanna.html

http://signsandportents.net/?p=388

Different sources, but the same story.

Picture of Roman Herculaneum fresco of Hermaphroditus.

I'm no expert on angels, but always believed they were men only. Please tell me more!

Seraphims and their ilk
 

The Judaeo-Christian tradition rooted in that of the Hebrews invariably presented its authority as patriarchal. This probably explains why Jahweh, Jehovah, and God had to be referred to as ' He ', and the lesser spirit minions such as Cherubim, and Seraphs doing ' his ' bidding would carry divine masculine authority. Hence Michael, Raphael, Lucifer ( Satan ), Azrael etc would all be considered ' He-s ' . For female Divinities and spirits, you would have to look to the Babylonian tradition.

After all, in the Christian Tradition, the Virgin Mary conceived by divine intervention, and since Mary was female, however mystical you make it, the logical conclusion is that she was impregnated, and that the divine medium for that took on male powers to do that !

But when you are dealing with matters of pure faith and conjecture, even the impossible becomes possible.

Personally I prefer to view my Guardian Angel ( if indeed I have one ) as essentially female - so much more sympathetic and non-judgmental !

:)

In early Hebrew kingdoms of Juda and Israel they worship both god Jahweh and goddess Astarte. But later also with pressure of Jahweh clerics and kings Hebrews abandon goddess Astarte and prohibit her worship. It was politics of that time, which create Jewish religion as it was.

I find interesting book about Gallae priestesses with headline The Gallae: transgender priests of ancient Greece, Rome and the Near East.

In ancient times societies never associate third gender, where they see eunuchs, castrates, trans persons, etc, as males. For them, they are neither male neither female, but usually their role is associated with females in contrast with today, where many people associate tgirls with males, because they still have penis.

Thank God I'm not of heavenly creation!:)

If that is from the Greek era, one wonders if TS existed then or if men had erotic dreams of being women.
Probably both.

I tried "gallae" and got redirected to "galli", being the plural of "gaul", which is totally irrelevant. With Kybele I got redirected to Cybele. I always knew her as Cybele, but I think your use of K rather than C would be more accurate as the name came to us via the greeks.

If you Googled "Gallae" and came up with nothing, only the redirect, then there's something wrong with your "Google machine." ;) In any case, this undergraduate thesis (for one example) --

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...F0xjGV7CoA3ftw

-- became a published book.

"Cybele" is the common, but less accurate transliteration of Κυβέλη (note the Kappa).