I give up
 

That's right done - finished - off the market - no longer looking for Mr ANYTHING.

I had a date this afternoon over lunch. With my work schedule, it was actually a chore for me to be up and ready for a date by noon. I made sure that we were actually clear that by "lunch date" we would NOT be rushing off to McDonalds, but rather meeting for proper food.

We ate at a place of my choosing and we were having a really good time. He was funny and we were making eachother laugh the whole time. His phone rang and he excused himself. When he came back he's grin was gone and he apologized that he would have to go early.

I commented that work calling during lunch sucks. Attempting to reassure him that I understood, and wasn't holding his need to go against him. Then he let it slip.... "Well actually my WIFE ...."

I don't particularly have any investment in anyone elses' relationship. I'm really not pressed if someone has another primary relationship. By the same token, I'm not going to be lied to. When we were talking/chatting he specifically mentioned he was single.

I'm not sure what it is. Since I can't seem to find guys willing to actually show up on a date. Or who actually think a "date" is more involved than meeting me in a hotel room so they can make sure I meet their standards of "passable". Or who aren't involved already. Why is it the only really great guys that I meet are 1000's of miles away??!!?

So, yeah, I'm just done. Time to buy some cats.

Don't give up, Bionca.

Judging by your photos, I'd say you are a very attractive, young woman who just needs ro find Mr. Perfect. He's out there, it just might take a little while longer to find him :)

I'm looking for my Mrs. Perfect as well and she's out there, too. I just know it. Some just find 'The One' a little earlier then others, that's all.

Just hang in there, sweetness!

Don't say that things, Bionca. You seem a nice girl, you like comics, you're cute, so you'll find the man you really deserve. You just need to search in the right places. Don't think that all men are like that two last dates.

Go out party and have good times with your friends, don't search for love and you'll find it, that's the trick.

Don't give up!

Cham

wow, sorry to hear that.

but don't give up. as it was said above, you're a gorgeous girl that seems cool, so you WILL find the right dude ;)

don't worry baby i'm here for you :P anything you need just let me know :P

It's not just about the last two dates. It's the scads of guys who absolutely fail to show up for a date and don't call for weeks (and then expect me to be perfectly ok with what happened and accept "I got nervous" as an excuse). It's the guy who made perfectly clear that he wasn't looking for an escort, and for some reason found it hard to believe I wasn't looking for payment who then detailed what he expected from me sexually and strongly hinted at what type of clothes I should wear.

At work tonight it dawned on me that I really think lots of guys think of Trans*women as "fake" girls or "Substitute" girls, so they take us on "fake" or "substitute" dates. Also, obviously the only connecting point in all of these disasters is..well.. me. So, perhaps I just need to take a gander at what I'm sending out into the world.

Your Heart Play
 

BIONCA,

Love is not for the faint of heart, and it's not some storybook event, either. You have to know who you are, and who they are. So-called real girls have the same exact issues as you do: cheap dates, I'll-listen-to-your-BS-to-get-you-in-bed dates, I-want-you-to-dress-for-me dates, not-dressed-for-a-date dates, piece-on-the-side dates, liars, cheaters, sexers, users, etc. That is why you'll hear a lot of women complain about how all men are liars and cheaters, about how all men want is sex.

You may be braver than the men you date, but are you smarter?

How many times have you given up already?

You are partially right about the signal you're sending, but not completely. You need to identify what you want, what you can get, what you'll settle for, what you are worth. Having established that, you need something that sets you apart from the competition. EXAMPLE: Bill had love, marriage and a child w/ Hillary--only sex w/ the others--because she shared his passion for politics. The real you needs to establish your interests to attract a guy who shares those interests, like a Trekkie, for example. Be prepared for a long wait, even one that may never come. Since marriage was no longer a prerequisite for sexual indulgences, the women in this country have a more difficult road to the alter w/ lots of them waiting for a day that eludes them.

There are lots of other things you can do, but I don't want to bore you all the moving parts (not a physical reference).

You seriously need to list where you are from, because it only takes one guy who wants a translady for a relationship from your corner of the world. Say Queens, NY (pun intended), and that's a big area w/ no specific address, but a guy who's interested might realize that you are not on the other side of the country. It also eliminates someone who is. This forum has men who want that type of relationship, if they are to be believed.

Remember, no one has ever said it would be easy.

I could have said don't give up, you're so cute; but you need more than a shoulder to cry on.

Well, good hunting, Sweetest Heart.

It just seems that they are 1000's of miles away. Perhaps you've just had the misfortune of only finding lousy guys. I wouldn't know though. I'd not deal with someone who is in a relationship. Seems to be a prospect doomed to failure. Not all men look at a date as a possible hotel room encounter. Although I do believe most men do. As a man I'll be the first to tell you that we, as a gender, are purely fucked up in all respects.

Now..about the cats....

I strongly urge you to have cats. Because they are beautiful creatures. No right or wrong in them. Just pure. They make great housemates.

Honey, I'm really sorry... and just as disappointed as you are... every time I hear this story it hurts me to the bottom of my soul. Every time I can only think: Oh well, just another guy who wasn't ready for it, who hadn't thought it through, who was just in it for own sinister pleasure, who was experimenting, who didn't know the treasure in his hands...

I know so many transsexual women even here who have the same experience over and over and over again... it's frustrating! And again and again and again they HOPE! And come with their big smiles, their sweet minds and their open, vulnerable hearts. Just once again to be let down...

It's so unfair and so ridiculous. So no words of "cheer up, baby, all is gonna be fine" from me. Because fact is that for a very long time it probably is NOT gonna be any better.

Rats...

For what it's worth, Bionca... at least I love you and adore you, and if we were in the same part of the world I can assure you that I would do all in my powers to get you. You are a gorgeous woman with a beautiful mindset! So easy to fall in love with.

And for what it's also worth... I just had a conversation with an extremely attractive and smart transsexual woman here in my town that I invited to dinner. She was almost falling off her chat chair when I suggested that we rendevous at one of the more fancy restaurants in town... "but... I'm a transsexual... are you sure it's wise for you...?".

That hurts me just as much.

I'M A TRANSSEXUAL... CAN YOU BE SEEN TOGETHER WITH ME?

FUCK!

YES, my darling, I can and will be seen with you! I want to hold you close when we stroll the main archades, kiss you in public, smile at you and yell how much I love you... my woman! May you be as proud of me as I am of YOU!

So Bionca, sweetheart, darling, get the cats, but don't get the blues... hang in there, baby, I refuse to believe that in that great country of yours there isn't a single man who can grasp your qualities... and grasp you off the ground!

You'll be a gorgeous bride!

1000000000 kisses and thoughts of and to you, my friend.

H

Don`t give up!

Talvenada - Thanks for the reply. The thing is, I do have a pretty set criteria for guys I'll date. I'm also pretty flexible and will give most guys a chance. That last part seems to be where I git bit in the ass... but the alternative is being like some TGs I know who are just so so demanding of potential suitors they discourage LOTS of men.

And I'm well aware that dating sucks all over. The thing is, I'll talk about what happened to a Transwoman and they relate - they get it - it's happened to them over and over. My GG friends are apalled at how the guys are. It really is a situation where most of the guys just want some freaky experimentation or they can't find a "real" girl and figure we are the next best thing.

But.. yes I do think some introspection is inorder before I become so jaded that I miss something actually good.


Hank - You know I adore you! It makes me smile that you get it. I'm also sad, but TOTALLY understand about your date wanting to make sure that yu really wanted to be seen with her. It's petty common for guys to chicken out and suddenly suggest that we get some pizza delivered on the off chance that someone somewhere might figure something out.

If I were to date a transwoman, I would never be embaressed... why should I? It's just about her and me. And if we're okay with it, then why should we care about what other people think?

And dates, yeah, I heard it sucks most times... but not every guy is like the guys you dated. Practise makes perfect... so maybe that guy is just waiting to find you ;)

Hang in there, Bionca! You're gorgeus and you'll find your man! Just like I'll find my woman someday :)

?
 

Hey Bionca, sorry to hear about your unfortunate date(s), I also believe you are adorable and not to be treated lightly. I was just wondering, what is your "criteria" for the men you date?

I totally agree with that. A few years ago I went on a business trip with a friend of mine to a trade show. Like me, he was single and incredibly frustrated by the dating scene simply because no matter what we tried to do...no matter how hard we tried...we couldn't seem to meet anyone or get anything going. Like you, Bionca, we just wanted to give up on love and swear off finding anyone forever. So, we boarded a plane and headed off on our business trip determined to just kick back and have fun on the company's dime.

So, there we were at this trade show where we adopted a casual and light attitude about everything. We were nice to anyone we met, but we shrugged off any problems that came up. At the same time, there was a group of about 15-20 girls doing trade show booth duty next to ours. So, we struck up a conversation... throughout the day everyone would go back and forth chatting... and later that night we ran into them at the hotel bar where we all drank, danced, laughed, and partied till dawn. And by the time we were done, he and I walked away with a helluva lot of phone numbers.

As we were flying home, I said to my friend, "I don't get it. First we can't meet anyone and now in one weekend we collect a zillion numbers to call." And he replied: "Here's my theory. When guys (or girls) are looking to meet someone, they exude a pheromone. The only problem is sometimes you work at things too hard...you want it too much...so you give off a frantic pheromone, and that keeps people away. But once we switched to not caring, now we gave off nothing. This time the smell worked in our favor!"

LOL and I think that's true. That's why I agree with NMLSS. Sometimes the trick is to not search for love, but to let it find you. The key is to take a step back...take a deep breath...relax...and just let life happen as it will.

And I agree with everyone else trying to support you here. You're one of the nicest people posting away on the message boards...your photo avatar shows that you are clearly very pretty...so I'm sure you will meet the "right guy" along the way. But a few bad dates is no reason to give up on love. If nothing else, just remember that given the way these jerks acted -- certainly this latest guy -- the problem was with them and not with you.

So it would seem :-( The interesting thing is, though, that aforesaid lady actually is a bit scared to show up in public (how totally UN-asian...), so I had to promise her that we start it at home in my place... I'll do the cooking, make my princess relax and then take her out on date number 2, hand-in-hand to the places she dares not go alone or were never invited to...

As my father wisely used to say... why make it difficult, when with a wee bit of extra effort we can make it bloody impossible...

Oh well... trust me, I'll show her a grand time, my little darling!

H

A wise man indeed Hank and a saying that is so very true.

The Rule of Three
 

Bionca

Dates you desperately want are like trout in a stream - the more you reach out to grasp them the more they seem to slip away.

Others have already given you much advice to take heart from :

• Don't ever give up hope
• Only hunt with a girlfriend
• Let Love take its time to settle on you

And that remark about the frantic pheromone is closer to the mark than you think.

I am lucky in that I have found ( or been found by ) the love of my life, but it hasn't always been so. I feel very much for you, and hope the warmth of friendship all around you will sustain you until you do.

Bionca, I read elsewhere that there is this guy in your office who keeps bringing you coffee and sending you shy smiles and from what you wrote I presume that he is not aware of your "challenging" gender reality?

Maybe you should give the guy a chance. And are you at all sure that he is not aware of your "true identity"?

I tried to envision myself in his place - and I think I'd do the same as he. Hinting to you that I like you and find you attractive. I wouldn't necessarily walk up to you and say: "ok, baby, I know your secret and I still love you..." Or would I? I'm in doubt, really. It would depend on the circumstances.

If you find him sweet and attractive, then why not hint back at him? There must be some way you can get the message across without the need for any one to loose face here. Also, if it's not a secret, I personally find it hard to believe that he doesn't already know. I don't find it so hard to believe that he's "a guy like me" who happens to like "a girl like you". And for reasons that go beyond a quick lay in the hay.

I don't know, obviously, but it sounds to me that the more discreet guy could be a better bet...

Give it a thought...

H

Hmmm... let me just follow up a little bit on my posting above.

Had it been today, I would probably find a discreet yet clear way to send you the message that not only was I interested but I also knew your gender "secret" - that is if I knew. One "safe" way would be over the lunch table in the office to bring up a topic related to transgender issues and like that sending you the message in public yet in general... yet very very personal. I would then expect you to pick up the message without revealing yourself.

Had it been three years ago I would have been a bit more fumbling, I think, and a bit more in doubt as to how I approach you - I would definitely have used the coffee-thing as well and given you hints that I'm interested in you. But I'd probably have been a bit more confused about the gender-thing and how to get my message through to you. But then again, I'm sure I'd have found a subtle way.

My point is that you have to be a bit of a mind reader. Most people are so insecure especially when we get into taboos.

The poor man may be horrified by the prospect of all the words he'd be called by "friends" - and then again he may not... you have to figure out a way to detect the signals, Bionca. It's much easier for me, because I know if she is transsexual, and then I can approach her honestly and openly. It's more tricky for you as you cannot immediately judge if he's a sincere "guy like me" who likes a "girl like you". And is he just in it for the thrill, or is he in it for real...

Sorry, rambling again here...

Peace!

H (adore you for ever, Missy B!)

Very good words Hank. I think you hit the nail on the head for many men.

"My point is that you have to be a bit of a mind reader. Most people are so insecure especially when we get into taboos.

The poor man may be horrified by the prospect of all the words he'd be called by "friends" "

We have no choice but to confront taboos and any stigma thrown at us as a result. Society is a bitch. Take me for example. I view myself as a bisexual man. Some would say I'm a "queer" or "fag" because I am attracted to tgirls. I don't see this as making me homosexual. And, in all honestly, I am reluctant even labeling myself as bisexual. I am what I am, I like what I like, attracted to what I'm attracted to.

Yet, I am forced by society to live with things. In my life right now (real life not online) there is not one single person I can be completely honest with and open up to. I could never tell my best friends I'm "bi." I could never tell my grandparents I like tgirls.

Because I will surely be judged and labeled. And in a negative and harmful way. I live in a very rural place which shelters people. It's very religious here. There aren't any tgirls and very few homosexuals. It's pretty much old school America if you know what I mean.

Now, in another place perhaps I truly could be open and honest, free with my feelings and desires. Some areas are more accepting than others. And if you don't know anyone there even better. Here everyone knows me. And the rumors, gossip and name calling would make my life a hell.

So, if I found myself in a stroke of good fortune and had a chance to go on a date with a tgirl, no matter how much I may be interested in her and wish for us to get together, I'll always know in the back of my mind the ugliness my world would try to destroy something potentially good.

But I won't find myself in such a predicament since this place is devoid of such opportunity.

And, if my scenario happened one has to keep in mind willingness. I would rightly fear the harm others would heap on me and her as well. But if it really was a true potential relationship (I'm talking love here) perhaps a man might find the courage to stand up to their peers and society. Perhaps a man would gladly take on the condemnation for the sake of romance.

I dig it! It's hard for the man as well as for the girl...

Well, I personally refused to make it into an issue and came out into the open the minute I established a relationship with Fey, my first trans-lover and now my best friend here. Nothing hidden at all. Surely, I live in a society where transsexuality is a bit more common than in the west, and I originally come from Denmark, one of the most sexually liberated places on earth.

None the less, I got a few friendly "comments" along the way, but nothing serious that I couldn't handle.

What ever the excuses, we have to look deeply into ourselves and determine whether a life in stealth is really worth it... think about it from the trans-woman's point of you. Hard for her to stealth unless she limits her life to her bedroom behind curtains and locked doors.

Personally, I don't give a flying fuck what religious right wingers may have to say about me and my choices - they yell through their hats anyway and have nothing solid to back it up - except the terror they so vigorously enjoy to put on "different thinkers".

Again, I'm sure it's easier in Jakarta and Copenhagen than in rural America where the mindset appears to be at least 50 years behind. (Why do you think that I so strongly propose Barack as your new president?). But at some point you will have to make a decision. Either to succumb to the narrow minds of your neighbours or to finally explode that damn closet and come out calmly and intelligently and then take the shit that follows.

In the end, who will thank you not to? Find the way that fits you - but let me tell you that I have also been closeted in other aspects of life... never again! The shit you get from others is peanuts compared to the shit you can yourself pile up in that closet...

Peace, my brother!

H

I couldn't agree more with you.

Aside from only one thing:

Obama.

I'm of the opinion social change must come slowly. It cannot be rushed because of loose ends and the impact it has on people. America is an extremely diverse nation. We have every type of person imaginable and ever difference imaginable found here. Perhaps more so than most nations. And it is always a battle. I believe in serving the whole, the greater good, thus the majority rules. Minorities are a secondary consideration. This does not mean I support oppressing them or denying them their fair treatment and rights. Only that any sweeping change in our society should be carefully thought out, all options and ramifications considered and then eased into. Rapid and sudden change creates unforeseen issues.

And this is my problem with the far left and Obama's of the world.

The Europeans can sit and smugly condemn my nation for being backwards and less socially progressive. Europeans are exceptionally arrogant. Yet they forget something important:

European nations are older than America. They have had the benefit of several hundred years of time to "perfect" themselves. America is a baby in comparison.

Because I believe such change requires time, logically it stands to reason America has not had the time to "perfect" itself as Europe. It's relative to how old a nation is. And the problem with the champions of this kind of change in America are immature so to speak. They often just see a problem and immediately think up a solution then they want to make this solution happen. They don't care if it steps on other groups or has effects on the equality of all in terms of rights and civil liberties. They are rash and foolhardy.

Perhaps they're hearts on in the right place. But they need to slow down and consider everything. I'll cite Obama wanting to withdraw the troops in Iraq quickly. He has failed to show he has fully thought out all considerations and possible consequences. Liberals are slightly better at this kind of change as they tend to be more logical and fair than the far left who pretty much are hot headed, overly passionate dreamers who just rush into things.

So, if you can look at a European nation and American nation in terms of a whole (let's say for the sake of it all of the nation is one person) and compare age and experience, then clearly America needs to do some growing up. But we all know the dangers of growing up too quickly.

This is how I disagree with you. Everything else you said I agree with entirely.

Ogryn, I copied your reply to the Barack Obama thread and replied there if you dont mind!

H

Dating sucks, that's very true.

Still, don't give up!

I don't mind. I realized that I went off topic.

I forget sometimes that is can be hard for guys to take the step from fantasy to reality with Trans*women. Perhaps that's why the LB scene is so popular with American and European tourists. Thailand is a place where it is more or less culturally "ok" to be with an LB. Although I read about a "walk of shame" when going from an LB bar to a hotel on sites devoted to Thai LadyBoys. I guess for some guys no amount of social acceptance or distance from the opinions of friends and family will be enough.

I forget that it can be hard for guys mostly because I went through it a long time ago. It was a matter of life and death for me, not a matter of getting a deep dark sexual desire explored. I lived through people reading me on the street, on the bus, at work when I first started. I got called everything, had my motivations questioned, my physical safety violated, insulted, harassed into changing addresses. Having passed through that, having distance and experience I suppose makes me sometimes blind to the flip side.

This doesn't let guys off the hook though. Not to get grumpy (I'm actually in a pretty swell mood today) but really, guys who date Trans*women don't really have much in the way of issues (compared to the TGs). I don't want to minimize the guy end of things, it's hard. I understand - Ive been through it (kinda). I just don't get the understanding comming the other direction very often. It's one thing to say "Yeah, it's hard to be a shemale" it's quite another to be on the bus going to work and have 5 guys in the back chanting "Tran-NEE, Tran-NEE, Tran-NEE" the whole ride.

Just a little observation. I do, however, want to encourage discussion of the issues guys face when dating or trying to date a Trans*Woman. Any and all information will ultimately help me and gals like me, as well as help other guys who are trying to find a TG.

Hey - dates can suck really bad for guys just going out with GG's as well...

Still nothing's worked out longterm, but I have to say of my last three relationships that amounted to anything, 2 of them were with TG...

I know dates stink on ice for everyone. It just seems that most stuff is a little more complicated for TGs.

Yeah, no disagreement there... :respect:

It certainly is, Bionce, like most things unfairly seem to be.

I don't know why, but I actually cannot remember one single stinking date in my life. Surely, some might just turn out as a kinda cosy rendevous, but I think I have never really felt that I neither wasted my time (completely) nor went home without something of substance.

I realize that the painful situations that these weird guys have obviously put you in is not at all unique to you - and yes, ladyboys never TRULY expect to be treated decently. Well, they dream of it and may demand it, but most have a little bit of doubt always. "Is it yet another ass hole?" she may be thinking while yet spending maybe hours in front of the mirror making herself as wonderful and radiant as she possibly can.

When ever I arrange a date (or she does), you can be sure that I will be called and smsed several times during the day where she is merely making sure that I don't intend to chicken out on her. "Ok, I make up now, honey, ya? Don't be late picking me, ya?"

I find it both troublesome and totally endearing. I mean, how can you NOT fall completely and deeply for such kind of devotion? I sure as shit can't...

And when she meets you, with her beautiful smile, her anticipation, her loveliness, her full transsexual power, beauty and wonderfulness... OMG... then I just fall in love right there on the spot... and then I'm indeed the luckiest man in the whole world! And that is completely the same whether she is a "nice" woman with a "nice" civil occupation, or if she is a little darling that I may pay "taxi-money" for her wonderful company. There is no difference.

It's a privilege to be liked, sometimes adored, sometimes even loved by God's finest!

Respect the ladies!

H

I don't really know what a date is like. Because I haven't really been on a date. I have only taken a girl out two or three times for movie and dinner. When it comes to fliritng, dating, etc, my experience is very limited. Some people go out on lots of dates a year. Not me. I've not even spoken to a woman in three years.

What happens with me is eventually I find a girl I like or she likes me. And we spend sometime talking and hanging out. Maybe one little date like I described. Then we become a couple. At this point there isn't any "dating." Oh we'll go out and do stuff together. But it isn't like dating since we are "together." And then it falls apart and I'm back to square one not knowing how to impress a woman, how a date ought to be, etc.

It's all one big frustrating and disappointing game.

Don't give up entirely Bionca, but i would defiantly just focus on yourself for a while. However ultimately we are social creatures, we want to be in fulfilling relationships and share our lives with others! However the pursuit of love can make one very miserable too. Very, very miserable.. lol! Sometimes you just need a break or you will become jaded.

To be honest I don't entirely understand why you have been treated so poorly.. Although could you be any more out of the main stream? Sci-fi fan and social worker??! :o) On the periphery much? On a serious note, I'm surprised you haven't meet someone while studying social work or networking in the field. Social workers are generally a pretty undiscriminating, straightforward and liberal bunch of people often, with like minded friends. Have you asked if someone can introduce you to a nice guy?

Well, I was in a relationship all through college and after graduation for a couple years (7 total). So I wasn't networking in that way when I was hanging out with social workers. I'm also not currently working in that field. I learned a long long time ago to never ever let my friends introduce to to someone or fix me up. They are profoundly bad at it. Honestly, I think the jaded is already happening, I think I know now why so many Transwomen in online chats/dating sites are so harsh with the guys.

Guys will promise the sun the moon and the stars to get in my panties. All I expect is some respect and dinner. I figure celestal gifts can come later. It amazes me how often guys fail to get over step #1. So many fail at step #1, I don't even think there isa step #2. Pretty pathetic really that a guy is special and a quality guy just for not chickening out on your first date and takes you out in public...

may have something to do with why Transwomen are 12x more likely to be killed or beaten by an intimate partner than genetic women.

I'm the first to admit the male species is a suspect creature at times, ok a significant amount of the time, but there are good guys out there. I still think it is about finding people with shared values. Maybe join a social action group or something? Worse case scenario you meet some nice people! :o) Although i can't talk, i keep meaning to do something like that, but uni seems to eat up a lot of my spare time. Excuses, excuses! Yeah, i am a hypocrite..

Meanwhile cats are great, that is when they're not demanding food, bringing home dead mice, meowing, scratching up the furniture, demanding food.. hmm.. have you thought about a dog?

12 times more likely?! That is scary when you think how high the family violence rates are in general

/Not much I can add
 

Hi Bionca,
In light of all the flattering and encouraging replies you've received I can only corroborate with them all. I only wish you lived a little closer than Australia, is it? Unfortunately it seems to me that I'm trying to crack this code myself. So far, every TGirl I've met (and I AM new to this) is professionally oriented, which I understand entirely. We are many of us professionals in various fields, we have something special and want to be paid for it. I hope that there are other girls like yourself out there. Of course, in both our cases, there's nothing to be accomplished by giving up. All the best.

Hey there, I think Bionca is actually in the US. If she was in Australia i'd be knocking her door down ;o) Where do you live?

Given my deep attraction to Aussie blokes, if I lived in OZ I think I would be in some sort of constant erotic coma and unable to type, move, or really do much more than blink and drool.

I live in the middle of Ohio in the US. Recently moved back after a rather nasty break up with my long-term guy.

As far as the cats comment, it's really a comment on living alone. The proverbial "crazy cat-lady". I actually prefer dogs - you get the feeding and the dead mice (and assorted critters); but also get kisses and someone happy to see you.

Also, you guys are a riot. Everyone who has commented has at least made me smile. :hug:

Bionca, I know you to be an intelligent person.

And so it is with dismay I see you prefer dogs to cats.

The cat is a superior animal. Dogs are stupid no matter how well one trains them. They lack the actual intellect cats do. This is why a person can abuse a dog and it will come trotting up to be petted.

Not so with the almighty cat. Cats are truly intelligent animals.

Intelligent animals for intelligent people. You deserve a cat Bionca.

hmm.. the eternal war between dogs and cats...

I don't take sides, I really love all animals.. except birds.. they totally freak me out. Seriously.

I grew up on a farm, so I have met my share of plain stupid dogs and cats for that matter. I do adore the kitties tho. In high school I had two cats Isabelle and Sheeba. Sheeba plainly hated every single human - except me. I'd come home from school and every day she'd meet me at the door and let out a series of short "meeows". It was like she was scolding me for leaving her in the care of that "crazy woman" my mom.

Isabelle was also totally my baby (tho she technically was my brother's cat). She'd lay down across my shoulders and the back of my neck like a scarff or a shrug (type of sweater/wrap thing for you guys). She'd sleep that way if I was really still and purr in my ear. Every so often she'd twitch her tail and hit me in the nose or the eye. So, yeah I loves the kitties.

Given my projected living situation (urban, small or no yard, alone, working) a cat would be a more appropriate pet. I do, however, dream of a time when I can own lots of land and have a dog rescue. Pretty pahetic dream I know, but whatcha gunna do.

and Ogryn... thanks for the "Intelligent" comment I appreciate it.

If you're going to own lots of land, why not have a Llama farm? :p

What women doesn't love an Aussie guy? Aside from Australian women that is! Actually, maybe we're more of an acquired taste? But yes, aside from the inevitable erotic coma, you'd love Australia i think. You should visit one day; we have universal health care to help with that pesky coma problem too ;o)

Ogryn1313, couldnt agree more! Cats are intelligent, however they're also quite evil! Not that i believe in good and evil, but if i did, cats would be up there! I love them, but the can be seriously sadistic critters at times.. Although they're not as bad as human i guess.

My first real crush was an Aussie boy who was an exchange student in High School. As things go, he was also the first heart-break. But that has more to do with the nature of late-teen romance than him or me.

In adulthood I find myself most attracted to guys that look like him. Dark hair, blue eyes, tall, muscular, and that Aussie voice.. OMG!!

I would
 

I'd date you for sure! What's freakin' wrong with men today? They're making some of us look bad

the best way to find something is often to stop looking for it, everyone always finds what their destined to find, eventualy.

sometimes when i'm playing with my cats i get the feeling that my cats are playing with me. william s burroughs.

i much prefer dogs, cats are only interested in what you can do for them, its like they think their better than you. a good dog will fight to the death to defend its owners what would a cat do. also cats are evill i've seen cats more then once catching a mouse and instead of just killing it they sit and torment it for a while then kill it. although i did once see a cat stalking along the top of a fence and pouncing onto a pigeon killing it and running off with it, i thought this was very impresive.

I really don't get it either, dbg19891. They are making us look bad! I also agree that its not until you give up looking that they often find you. But then sometimes it is also a numbers game! You have to date/meet heaps of people to find that Mr Right.

Bonica, the old talk dark and handsome hey? ;o) I'm tall! lol, not so much dark and handsome.. I have to say, i'm not a fan our our Australian accent though. Occasional I’ll hear a strong Aussie accent on a documentary or something and I just cringe!

Yes, one of my cats is partly feral and she kills anything and everythign that moves (plus some things that don't) Then she eats them! At least she's not wasting what she kills, but i've never seen a well fed cat actually eat a bird before. Anyway, I try and keep her but she is signifcantly smarter than me, which is more than a little problamatic when it comes down to explain who is boss. I don't think it's me anymore. :o(

"like they think their better than you."

Because they are better than us.

Cats toy with mice because it's instinct, that is how they learn to kill. Evil? no such thing as evil in animals. A dog will defend you because you're its meal ticket.

A cat however, doesn't have to rely on you as a dog would. They are smarter.

yeah, cats probably are better than us really. More self sufficient! Most of us wouldn't last 10 weeks without a society to feed and shelter us!

I'm only being factious about cats being evil; i don't actually believe in good and evil. You're right, it is their nature.. That being said, i'm a bit soft when it comes to killing, plus I really hate seeing dead and injured animals. Thus the whole vegetarian thing. I think my next pet needs to be a non predator, maybe a rabbit or something.