the psychology of what it is to like ladyboys
 

not wishing to distract from other possibly similar threads but i want to to take a more objective view on this subject.

not to know what it is you like but to dig deeper into why you like it.

now i would guess from the a lot of posts on this forum myself included that we do not get turned on by men.

but we do appreciate women but not as much as ladyboys.

now for sake of argument take this hypothetical scenario of an attractive genetic woman having an operation to have a penis grafted onto her.

now who out there would want to go with this woman?? for me personally i would have to say an absolute no way!!.

so logically the attraction of ladyboys for me isn't what they are now but the fact that they used to be a man!

for me personally even the notion that the girl that i was about to have sex with could have been a boy like me playing football in their younger years on the same soccer field is a huge turn on.

and somehow it all focuses on the penis..like its the remaining facet of who they were.

but its not as simple as that because i now look back to heterosexual relationships.

a man wants to connect to a woman so they can become one. The man wants to experience the woman in every possible way.

well for me that relationship still exists but it is with a ladyboy. I want to become one with a person that experienced that transition.

Its the idea of a sexual transition from man to woman that excites me and attracts me to that person.. a ladyboy.

so enough of my ramblings....what is your take on the reasons behind why you like ladyboys??

psycology
 

That is an interesting hypothesis. Personally, I don't see it that way. I am not concerned that "she" was once a "boy". I like the attributes of a shemale as she is, possessing the up front male sexuality with the beauty of a female, a hybrid if you will. What is especially appealing about a shemale versus a female is that a shemale leaves little doubt she is ready for sex when she displays her hard cock. You never know with a female whether she wants sex or not. She can also fake it.
However, what if there was a special treatment that converted the female clitoris into a full sized functional penis. She would still have a functional vagina. Consequently, she becomes a hermaphrodite. Would she be attractive to you? She sure would be attractive to me!:inlove::turnon::inlove:

interesting but for me its not hypothesis but fact.

just wondering if there are a number of journeys that can be taken to arrive at the same place?

Interesting ideas, Bepitan, but that is all they are - at least, until you get a lot more feedback from this Forum, or a qualified set of observations from a Sexual Psychologist ( NOT from a Psychiatrist, many of whom seem to end up with abnormal perpectives themselves at anyrate ).

Now I am female. So I have one simple question prompted by your post : Apart from my personal sexual preferences, does the fact that I am a woman mean that when I have Heterosexual intercourse I am having sex with a man so that I can become one ? ( Quote : " . . . a man wants to connect to a woman so they can become one " )

Actually, I suspect that pleasure is the principal driving force for all sexes.

What does everybody here think ?

Keep it rolling, folks. This could get interesting !

Love:hug:

Dear Be MY Nude,
It is great to get input on this topic from a genetic female. I suspect you may be mystified by this obsession with shemales. So am I, actually. Most of my life I have loved females until recently when I got interested in shemales. My mind revolves around sex. I want to feel horny and looking at shemales makes me horny. On the web they project sexual availability and excitement. This is an essential part of the website transsexual porn business. They are promoted as sex objects in order to get horny males to sign up on the porn site for $30 dollars a month, or pay ridiculous amounts to masturbate watching web cam tgurls. The reality is, I suspect, very different as Bionca and other "real" transexuals on the forum will attest. I enjoy the fantasy, especially watching a Tgurl and a girl have sex. However, it's just a fantasy and I am not going to pay for it.
Females Rule! :inlove::turnon::inlove:

I'm a bit puzzled by your participation in this forum at all, Bella. Surely you should be interested in f2m transexuals - not the other way round ? Unless of course your interest is not sexual, which seems more than a bit odd to me.
No offence meant of course. I'm sure you're quite a nice person.

I just find bums tits and cocks/balls in action and in combination such a turn-on myself - never mind the clever psychology bit ! But maybe I'm a bit naive.

Not sure i agree 100%. I'm definitely not attracted to lb's because they used to be a man or their transition. Although i do agree with making a connection and wanting to be as one with a partner.

For me it's all about attraction. I'm attracted by a certain look/style, petite and feminine. I am basically turned on by the female form, whether they happen to have a pussy or a cock makes no difference. I'm just not into typical "male characteristics" or masculinity, it's all about a persons beauty, in all its forms.

The question is; if you had to choose between your g-girl fantasy fuck or t-girl fantasy. Which would you choose? ;)

If it didn't look weird (i.e. the operation wasn't poorly done) I would actually find that pretty hot...

Clicking on a male accessory
 

Come on Bepitan - it would take a medical miracle of modern surgery to achieve a penis graft onto a genetic femal, one that functioned fully sexually that is. As far as I'm aware f2m surgical techniques are still a long way from achieving success in that direction, never mind the dual plumbing problems. Nor do I think it's likely in the forseeable future, as the f2m transgender operation is all about enabling a man born into a woman's body without the male equipment to realise in part some sort of sexual peace of mind, eg. to alleviate the unfair physical handicap of no penis-no balls.

Now sexual dreams about f2m and participating - well they're quite different.
So, if that's your thing or something somewhat different, then like all of us here on the forum, dream on ! !:respect:

The fact that a t-girl has gone through the transition is a turn-on in the sense that it shows me that the t-girl really is absolutely determined on expressing her femininity to the fullest. So the fact that a t-girl is so in tune with her sexuality that they can take a genetically male body and transform into the most feminine expression of human sexuality is an unbelievable turn-on.

Also the fact that to most 2-dimensional minded people beleive the penis absolutely equals man and the vagina absolutely equals woman is shattered by all the beautiful t-girls is a turn on to me. Those are the psychological turn ons for me.

So I don't agree that its a turn on simply because she was once a boy/guy because a t-girl never really was a boy/guy she just simply had the appearance of a genetic male. Even genetic females have to work to express femininity, so I am also really attracted to genetic girls who are really in tune with their femininity and express it to the fullest, I just happen to prefer girls with cocks.

bepitan has articulated a personal truth and way of seeing the world according to him. I like it.

Some wise words of caution have also been put forward, however. As ocinteeni just said: "a t-girl never really was a boy/guy she just simply had the appearance of a genetic male". This would probably be another personal truth for most t-girls.

But I still know what bepitan means and think there is some validity to what he said. The idea of a past history is very exciting. While sexual attraction and sexual awareness are generally regarded as adult things, I actually see them as a kind of regression to a child-like state. In essence, you have primal fascination with body parts, shapes, colours, smells, textures etc. like a child. You are also compelled to fantasise and desiring of tactile contact and a certain "living out" of your inner compulsions, again, much like a child. Finally, in the act of sexual enjoyment, which I would personally define as consenting contact between two or more individuals, you are experiencing something physical that connects to some of the deepest parts of your psyche -- parts that would otherwise remain suppressed and unfulfilled, as the adult world is keen to force upon you. Sexual attraction is the great equaliser.

Thus, past history can be a very intoxicating idea, when you are driven to imagine what a person was like growing up, whatever their sex, gender or orientation was or currently is (and whatever your sex, gender or orientation was or currently is). In the case of t-girls, I think it CAN be fun, exciting and arousing to imagine a certain "maleness" transitioning into a kind of "femaleness", mentally, physically, emotionally and what have you. In so doing, you are crossing social boundaries and breaking social taboos, which is a powerful stimulant in the minds of many, if not all, human beings. But you are also -- hopefully, that is -- acknowledging the power of self-actualisation in the human animal itself, venerating the object of your sexual desire (say, a person or a group of persons) and also yourself (for daring to buck trends and actually find all of this so attractive and arousing). In all of this, I am greatly simplifying, over-generalising and guessing. Psychology is invariably and perpetually both subtle and complex.

The veneration aspect is interesting, as I think it's also tied to narcissism. That is, in all the times you've ever become aroused and/or masturbated, think of the times you may have, in some abstract way if nothing else, actually been attracted to yourself. This is a potentially awkward and very solipsistic idea, I know. I'm sure not many people want to go here, but for those that do, think and think hard (pardon the pun). Have you ever caught sight of yourself in a mirror or made a recording and watched it back or done or felt something where you were the object of your own desire, if only for a nanosecond or two? Maybe, in some or all of these occasions, or maybe in none of these but some totally separate occasions, you have also wondered what it would be like to suck a cock or fuck yourself in the ass or something equally self-serving. But then those feelings went away. Or you tried to redirect them onto sucking another guy's cock or fucking them in the ass but it didn't hold appeal. Well, in an oddly fitting sense, t-girls offer a solution to this riddle. It is possible, at least, in theory, to live out those fantasies in an agreeable form. You can both pleasure someone (and take pleasure in the pleasuring) and be pleasured (and take pleasure in the being pleasured) by someone who is neither yourself nor unacceptably "too male", but who you imagine to intuitively understand your needs and your ways because they share the same basic equipment (even though neither of these conditions is necessarily true in reality).

It's a very peculiar thing. How much basis any of this actually has in reality I don't know. I'm no Freud -- and many people disavow him.

Maybe it's more accurate to apply bepitan's basic sentiment to gay sex -- which might be more comfortably (for the benefit of bepitan and others) be termed bisexual or polysexual or even pansexual attraction, with respect to the individual and his or her own proclivities. That is, during the times I look at porn featuring just males (and they are more frequent than they used to be), I am given to imagining what bepitan just said. I guess there is an enormous fantasy element to all sex, referring to what I wrote earlier. It can actually be pretty exciting for me to imagine fucking a teenaged or 20-something boy that "used to play football" (to use that same cliche) or who maybe just a few minutes ago has, provided I am still able to process their current mindset in terms of something feminine and submissive (although I am in no way meaning to imply I conflate them with being a t-girl, because I don't). Now, I don't mean to take anyone down a path they don't wish to go down, but actually try this for a second. Try to think of a male (in my case, it has to be a young male, at least, it currently does) and try to think of them lying down and wanting to be played with and fucked and enjoyed in "cute" and "fun" ways, not quite as the actual males or masculine figures you're familiar with in everyday life. It's only a subtle difference for me, but it's also one that allows me to engage in this thinking and enjoy it. I offer no rational explanation for any of this, beyond further ruminations as crude as those I've already presented. It's just something that "feels good".

When I look at pictures and videos of t-girls/shemales, there are differing complexions and bodies on display, as well as differing attitudes and approaches. Some are quiet, others are loud. Some are soft, some are aggressive. Some are very "feminine" in appearance, others are very "masculine". As such, I'm given to imagining slightly different things in slightly different contexts. If I'm looking at a cute ladyboy with a small body and retiring demeanour, I might imagine a lot of tenderness and stroking. If I'm looking at a more square-jawed t-girl with broad shoulders, big boobs and a dominant personality, I might imagine more forcefulness and kinkiness. But again, I'm massively over-generalising (about myself, never mind anything or anyone else). So much is rooted in fantasy, so little in cold, hard reality. However, if it's the latter scenario, or if it's even a ladyboy who just looks more "male" in the face and has, for example, noticeably veiny hands, a muscular stomach or whatever else, I may (note: may) imagine them as still "almost male", as essentially a "cute boy having fun", even if that isn't commensurate with reality and may not even be that different as a fantasy archetype to a "fully feminine" t-girl. Again, it's all rather subtle and complicated. I only know what I feel at the instant I feel it. Everything else is unreality.

A super-attractive girl that magically has a penis is not an inherently attractive idea -- or, more accurately, necessarily as attractive as the stereotypical thinking sometimes exhibited on this community suggests it should be. It's not an unattractive idea, but neither is it hyper-compelling. This is all for me, of course. Your perspective could be different. There must, therefore, be something about my attraction to t-girls, or the majority of my attraction the majority of the time, that is rooted in appreciating them for "once being male" or still possessing "male attributes", however significant or trivial. Maybe, for instance, I like the idea of lean arms and legs (males have less body fat). Maybe I like the idea of sweat and taste (males have a different endocrine system). Maybe I like the idea of smaller, tighter asses (again, less body fat). Or bigger hands and feet (males are bigger). That's the physical side. It's also the "now" side, as opposed to bepitan's idea that the penis is "the last remaining vestige" (or whatever) of a "male past". So, maybe, in some configurations, I like the idea not only of a past, but also a present. A physical present and even a mental present. But a physical and mental present that isn't, or aren't, necessarily symmetrical with a physical and mental past. I could just be talking a load of BS here. Looking back on my own post history, I always tend to fawn over "feminine" t-girls, so maybe it *is* just the feminine ones I like best. But, in any case ... it's OK for us all to be neither one thing or another. To exist on a spectrum. To sit still or to streak between different points along it. That's what life is and what makes it so interesting. See my signature.

Pleasure is in the mind
 

I've just had another look at this thread, and thought I'd add just one more observation :

I have to say I prefer randolph's psychology to skronk's here. I thinlk that too much analysing and theorising with comples semantic constructs detracts from the central purpose - PLEASURE. I mean, by being too cerebral and elaborate, it's difficult to achieve orgasm, isn't it ? A bit like reading a sex manual behind one's lover while shagging him / her, and concentrating too hard ! ! ( Sorry skronk ! )

For me, triumph65 puts his finger on it - at least for him - he seems to achieve a much clearer subjective expression of his views / feelings.

After all, at the end of the day, subjective opinions achieve as much validity as objective ones, however irrational they may be ! - Humanum est sentire, hein ?

:respect: to all

this is geting some where to a point that in all retrosepect.
has no final just soultion. if androgany amounts towards something is that all men and ...for what i under stand women what to indule themselves in something beatiful and attractive. the acutal sex of that person is irrevent.
....though people lately have be calling me shallow,superfaical,and empthy.
the pyscholocal aspect of this ranges form person to person.

For me, it's just a purely physical thing. From an emotional standpoint, I'm completely bi/pansexual, I don't really care about gender in any form. But I find feminine women very sexually attractive, to a much larger extent than men. I do find men hot, but not as often. I do like cocks though. I like the look, the feel of them, I like them in my arse, etc. So my liking for transsexual porn is a purely physical thing, the fact that there is a very beautiful, feminine woman with a cock for me to enjoy gets me very sexually excited.

In an actual relationship though, I wouldn't care if my partner was born male or female, or has transitioned since, or whatever. It's just a sexual thing.

Her trans*mentality... her beauty... her femininity... her womanhood... her love... her vulnerability... her... self!

pleasure
 

Whatever else one thinks of Freud, he did offer a useful observation for this discussion. In his book Beyond the Pleasure Principle (1920), he discusses what he calls the "life instinct" or Eros. This instinct, one of two categories (the other being the "death instinct, or Thanatos), comprises all of our instincts for self-preservation and also our erotic instincts. To Freud, our sexual energy -- what he calls "libido" -- is the strongest motivator in an adult's life.

I am no follower of Freud; I offer this only to make a point. Freud contends that our instincts from birth are driven by our desire to acquire and enhance bodily pleasure. This, to me, explains that I find a cock on a woman desirable almost beyond words. Clearly, I must see it as capable of enhancing my own bodily pleasure. What the theory does not explain is why I find it desirable but that someone else does not.

But here's the most important point: I don't care. I am who I am, and what Mel Asher writes above could not be more true: we overanalyze and overtheorize, on this forum as elsewhere, while missing that it's all about pleasure. Sure, much of this analyzing is by people seeking some justification for their "aberrrant" desire -- but I have little sympathy for them. Get over it! Enjoy yourself. Pleasure yourself, and pleasure your partner, with or without his/her dick.

I'm curious Fran , is this because you think a man can't love "you" or if you just feel another trans is the only one who could love you. Or maybe your just attracted to who your attracted to. I would like a reply or a pm if it doesn't inconveniance you.

I get pleasure from pictures of ladyboys, shemales etc. because of the juxtaposition of female elements with male ones. I do skew more towards the feminine look, mainly because I'm heterosexual (to some extent) and so if the girl looks too masculine, I become less attracted to her. In essence, it's an attraction to an exotic kind of woman; a woman who's still recognisably female, but possesses something out of the ordinary.

Also, there's the factor that the ladyboy (etc.) has made a transition from male to female; a transformation, if you will. I have a fetish for men transforming into women, so that's a big part of why I enjoy pictures and videos of ladyboys.