Ask Jenae for real answers - no games.

[Jenae LaTorque]

I would like to open the field to any and all questions. I will give my honest opinion and/or knowledge on any and all topics to sincere questions. If I can I will try to diresct you to further information on the topic.

What are my qualifications? I have been around a while and nothing much shocks me anymore. I have had my IQ tested at over 150 and my friends do respect my opinion and knowledge of many subjects. I have read the Bible and while not a biblical scholar, I am more familiar with it than George Bush.
I am somewhat a scholar of offbeat subjects and somewhat of a computer nerd. I started on computers when PCs were rare and most all our work was done on a mainframe. Punchcards anyone?:yes:

Anyway, if you want an answer or just want a sounding board, give it a try.

[fuckstudent]

I got one question. Do t-girls have an normal orgasm when they get operated and exchange their cock for a pussy??? I hope you know what i mean...

[Jenae LaTorque]

I got one question. Do t-girls have an normal orgasm when they get operated and exchange their cock for a pussy??? I hope you know what i mean...

As long as the Sex Reassignment Surgery is done properly, the answer is Yes, the new woman is fully capable of sexual arousal and orgasm. The procedure which reshapes a man's genitals into a woman's is called Vaginoplasty, and if done correctly does not destroy the nerve endings which are necessary for sexual arousal and orgasm. In some cases, the "new" woman may need to take hormone treatments to attain this state.

But just like a genetic woman, a simple "Slam. bam. thankya ma'am" will not do for most. Like genetic women, the SRS female will need a certain amount of foreplay to reach an aroused state which leads to an orgasm. Some positions will be better for attaining orgasm then others and her partner must be attentive to her needs.

One thing all men should keep in mind is that an orgasm mostly happens in the brain just like in a computer where the computing and production of new data is done in the CPU. Failure to put in enough, or the wrong data, and your results will not be satisfactory.

[rockabilly]

Does size really matter ?

[Jenae LaTorque]

Does size really matter ?

Try to stick a 12 guage shot shell into a .22 rifle and see what luck you have!:lol::lol:


Seriously; surveys of women say that it does matter but it is not the most important thing as long as there is not to much of a lack thereof, or ir some rare cases, "too much of a good thing".

"What ya do with what ya got" seems to be the most important thing.

[fuckstudent]

Do most of the trannies want to have a pussy or are most of them happy with a cock and like to be the third gender, something special, a girl with a dick?

[The Conquistador]

Why is there not an Ask Bionca thread or a Ask Hankhavelock thread?

[Jenae LaTorque]

Do most of the trannies want to have a pussy or are most of them happy with a cock and like to be the third gender, something special, a girl with a dick?

That reminds me of the old adage, "Be careful of what you wish for, you might get it!"

I wonder sometime how many of the Tgirls do the sex-work thing just to finance the cost of SRS surgery and the other attendant costs of a full transition. And I do wonder how many would go all the way if they could at no cost to themselves - say if the government paid for it all. I would think that all of the true transgendered women would if they truly believed that would make them feel happier. That is why all SRS surgery is proceeded by counseling; it's pretty much a one way street.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Why is there not an Ask Bionca thread or a Ask Hankhavelock thread?

I myself find Hank to be refreshing in his candor - he can really blast it out sometimes.

As for Bionca - I find her depressing, she seems to enjoy the role of "victim" and I find myself snorting at her signature line about hating being braver than the guys she dates.

[TracyCoxx]

I have read the Bible and while not a biblical scholar, I am more familiar with it than George Bush.
How much of the bible is fiction?

[Jenae LaTorque]

How much of the bible is fiction?

Bible? Which bible? The word bible means a collection of books or writings that is sacred or authoritive in nature.

I am going to assume that you are referring to the bible as used by the Christian religions here. So....

Q: How much of that bible is fiction? A: None


Now, since you have already misquoted me once when you used a requote of something an idiot on an IDC site said and attributed it to me; I had better clarify the above.

The Christian Holy Bible is not fiction; it is mythology which is considered as another branch of literature.

[rockabilly]

I'm looking for love , a ltr w/ a gurl ... is it a fools quest? Sometimes i just wanna say "screw it! " is the search for love a waste of time? :(
Rockabilly sings the blues

[Jenae LaTorque]

Actually I really truly believe that love is over rated.

This thing called love: what is it? I have seen so many people who believe they are in love and all it is really is, is just their hormones acting up.

When it comes to long term relationships I believe it is much more important that you really like the person for who they actually are. Being in love tends to blind us to the significant other's faults. When love's blinders fall off we may be left with someone we really can't stand much. Some people get lucky and when the blinders fall off, the love remains, and they go on to form a long term relationship.

Is it a fool's quest? Well that depends on you and your expectations? If they are foolish, yes. then it may well be a very long and empty quest. Then again, sometimes two fools get together, and get lucky when they find they really do like and respect each other. First thing to do is to really get it set in your mind what you are looking for. Then you have a much better chance of recognizing it when you find it. Get to know the other person

A common pitfall for questing lovers is that sometimes the simplest things can make us fall in love. **For example; I just love Charlize Theron and it all started with just the way she smiles.**

Looking for love in all the wrong places? I have been amazed at some of the relationships I've seen. Do not assume that anyone is out of bounds when it comes to a love match. Just because that gurl is drop dead gorgeous dosen't mean that she is looking for someone to equal her beauty in the looks department; she may find honesty and loyalty to be much more important virtues. And never, I mean never, take rejection personally. After all, if she can't see the gold in you, then there she wasn't ready or right for you to start with. Speaking of your gold; let it shine. Don't play games and pretend to be someone you are not; you can't playact forever.

Is it a waste of time to look for love? Might as well ask if is a waste of time to go on breathing when you know you will die someday. It is a person's goals and aspirations that define them. Show me a person without any goals and I'll show you someone going nowhere.

So..... go get em tiger!

[fuckstudent]

how much money does a t-girl get for a scene in a porn movie?

[Jenae LaTorque]

....less than she wants and more than the producer wants to pay:lol:

There would be a lot of variables in such a thing. It would depend on many factors: How marketable is she? Is she a big star like Vaniity or a complete unknown from the gutters of Rio? Is she a knockout or a fat over the hill clunker? What is she doing in the scene? A simple BJ or is she being gang banged by 10 monster guys? How long is the scene and is it important to the movie? and so on..

I am sure the scale ranges widely just as it does for actors/actresses in mainstream movies; some get million while others get a mere pittance.

[rockabilly]

Thank you.

[TheSkronkDonkey]

As for Bionca - I find her depressing, she seems to enjoy the role of "victim" and I find myself snorting at her signature line about hating being braver than the guys she dates.

Totally not cool. Bionca is probably the most articulate, reasoned and intelligent poster on this forum. I also don't think it's fair to randomly slate someone out in the open like you've just done.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Totally not cool. Bionca is probably the most articulate, reasoned and intelligent poster on this forum. I also don't think it's fair to randomly slate someone out in the open like you've just done.



First off, it wasn't random; the guy who is "Postal" asked me about her.

Second, I just stated that I found her depressing and that she seem to enjoy the role of victim too much. It seem that everywhere you turn these days, someone is a victim. Church Lady would say, "Isn't that special?" Nope, it isn't; there are victims everywhere. Every bug that a bird eats is a victim. Every tuna fish that ends up in a can is a victim! Every weed that gets pulled in a garden is a victim! Every .... You get the point? It is part of the Natural Order of things. Is she entitled to bellyache about it? Yup, she is!
I just happen to find it depressing and I am entitled to that also. LOL Guess I am a victim also.:lol:

Third, Why do i snort at her hating being braver then the guys she dates. Well to start with, the average woman is braver than the average guy. And then for her to do what she has done shows a rare bravery. So she is no doubt braver than nearly all, if not all, the guys she ever meets. She can hate the fact or just accept it comes with the territory. I believe some Tgirls are able to show a brave smiling face to the world which in my book is more positive behavior. "Laugh, and the world laughs with you, cry, and you cry alone" And everyone cries sometimes when they are alone. Yes??

[TracyCoxx]

As for Bionca - I find her depressing, she seems to enjoy the role of "victim" and I find myself snorting at her signature line about hating being braver than the guys she dates.
Totally not cool. Bionca is probably the most articulate, reasoned and intelligent poster on this forum. I also don't think it's fair to randomly slate someone out in the open like you've just done.

I don't think Jenae was being overly rude about Bionca. And I agree, she does frequently play the victim.

[The Conquistador]

Do you think that Nadya Suleman's vagina is a hybrid of the Xenomorph Queen from Aliens and a clown car? Is that how she was able to spawn so many kids?

[tslust]

Do you think that Nadya Suleman's vagina is a hybrid of the Xenomorph Queen from Aliens and a clown car? Is that how she was able to spawn so many kids?

:respect::lol:That's a good question.:lol:

[Jenae LaTorque]

Do you think that Nadya Suleman's vagina is a hybrid of the Xenomorph Queen from Aliens and a clown car? Is that how she was able to spawn so many kids?
*************************************************

In fact I am pretty sure that is not the case..... Now her uterus probably resembles that of a sow.

The span of human behavior never ceases to amaze me. The whole story really does seem like something out of the cheap tabloids that report on aliens, ghosts, bloodless surgery, etc. doesn't it. I lived with my brother one semester while I was at college and he was an inveterate buyer of tabloids. I never have paid for one myself
but I will admit that I certainly looked at some of his. Even now I do find it entertaining to find their equivalent on the the internet every once in a while.
A memory that brings a chuckle to me every time I recall it; is when I found a web page dealing with "trailer trash". I was laughing so damn hard I literally fell off my chair to the floor. Unfortunately, I have never been able to find it since. That's all for now. I have to try finding that web page again:lol:

[The Conquistador]

What does sum tempestas fusca qua perducit terra mean?

[TheSkronkDonkey]

First off, it wasn't random; the guy who is "Postal" asked me about her.

No.

He said:

Why is there not an Ask Bionca thread or a Ask Hankhavelock thread?

And his other posts:

Do you think that Nadya Suleman's vagina is a hybrid of the Xenomorph Queen from Aliens and a clown car? Is that how she was able to spawn so many kids?

What does sum tempestas fusca qua perducit terra mean?

He's dicking with you.

Nevertheless, you took his first question as a chance to make negative claims about another member who hasn't even posted to this damn thread. I don't think many people would go from a satirical question about why two members don't have their own threads to an attack on one of them. That's what I meant by "random". The rest of your post is just a long-winded rationalisation, which I don't find especially compelling, so I've left it out. I'm not in the mood to fight over this. In my view, you shouldn't have spoken about another member the way you did -- and that's that.

[Bionca]

You don't have to answer - obviously, but what have I had that you would consider "playing the victim"?

As far as being depressing, yeah sometimes it's shit being trans - you know, having a Pharmacy worker give you shit for filling a prescription, being stopped in an airport because your DL says F, but your Passport says M, Having the Office of Homeland Security contact your future employer - oh wait no you don't do you... Tracy how about you?

The site is full of pictures of happy little trannies and gets visited by gals who depend on that image for their livelihood. Unfortunately, when I was dating the guys I met almost always believed this was the only aspect to being trans - so I think it's important to kick home some realism.

My sig is pretty basic. Topic after tipic on here was/is about guys being angsty about being gay, or wanting a TG and not having the balls to look, and not really moving from that place. I get that I'm probably going to be braver than most people - but that's not an excuse for some guy to be a craven coward the first time he's confronted with people knowing he's with a trans woman.

[ila]

....As for Bionca - I find her depressing, she seems to enjoy the role of "victim" and I find myself snorting at her signature line about hating being braver than the guys she dates.

I know Bionca as a warm, caring, intelligent woman. She does not play the victim, but rather spells out, sometimes in graphic detail, the travails of being trans. If she seems to be playing the victim it is because she has been a victim; a victim of violence, a victim prejudice, a victim of circumstance. None of this detracts from her beauty as a person. If anything it only enhances her strength of character; a strength that the rest of us should emulate.

Special note should be made of Bionca's thoughtful posts and responses to posts. Not once have I ever seen a condescending or catty remark from her.

Despite what Bionca has been through she is a happy well adjusted person. Anyone that would take the time to get to know Bionca would know what an incredible jewel she truly is.

[TheSkronkDonkey]

I know Bionca as a warm, caring, intelligent woman. She does not play the victim, but rather spells out, sometimes in graphic detail, the travails of being trans. If she seems to be playing the victim it is because she has been a victim; a victim of violence, a victim prejudice, a victim of circumstance. None of this detracts from her beauty as a person. If anything it only enhances her strength of character; a strength that the rest of us should emulate.

Superbly stated. :respect:

[The Conquistador]

No.

He said:



And his other posts:





He's dicking with you.



So my posts were a bit satirical/humerous. Big whoop. However I am curious about what that which is written in latin as I do do not speak it. What is wrong with asking a question(regardless of whether it is funny or not)? That is what this thread is designed for. If you don't like the thread, you can simply click out of here. Good Grief people!

[fuckstudent]

Can you get any disease from kissing or spiting in the mouth? Putting a finger in the ass and lick it? Licking ass with toung? Or kissing with my cum with other person?

[TheSkronkDonkey]

So my posts were a bit satirical/humerous. Big whoop.

Yes, "big whoop".

That said, Jenae did write in the thread title ... "no games".

I'll let you think about that one.

However I am curious about what that which is written in latin as I do do not speak it. What is wrong with asking a question(regardless of whether it is funny or not)?

Oh, boy ...

[The Conquistador]

And yet she still answered. It is obvious she wrote that in response to my "Ask Me" thread. Jeez dude.

[ladyboys rule]

Is it weird that I'm attracted to my mums best friend who is 43 and is pretty hot

[Jenae LaTorque]

You don't have to answer - obviously, but what have I had that you would consider "playing the victim"?

As far as being depressing, yeah sometimes it's shit being trans - you know, having a Pharmacy worker give you shit for filling a prescription, being stopped in an airport because your DL says F, but your Passport says M, Having the Office of Homeland Security contact your future employer - oh wait no you don't do you... Tracy how about you?

The site is full of pictures of happy little trannies and gets visited by gals who depend on that image for their livelihood. Unfortunately, when I was dating the guys I met almost always believed this was the only aspect to being trans - so I think it's important to kick home some realism.

My sig is pretty basic. Topic after tipic on here was/is about guys being angsty about being gay, or wanting a TG and not having the balls to look, and not really moving from that place. I get that I'm probably going to be braver than most people - but that's not an excuse for some guy to be a craven coward the first time he's confronted with people knowing he's with a trans woman.

************************************************** *********

All right, all of you. I did not attack Bionca. I did not say she was stupid, unreasonable, or talked mishmash, or picked her nose, or anything like those.
1. I did say I found her depressing which is my overall take on her and I am entitled to state my opinion. Is "depressing" all that bad ? 2. I also said she enjoyed the role of victim -- I did not say she "played" the role of victim, that was said by another. For example, if I said "Richard Nixon had a role in Watergate", does that mean that he was playing? Hell no, it means he was involved in it; he took part, he participated.

Now I am glad that Bionca has some chivalrous knights to come galloping to her defense, but I think she does well enough on her own, although she did mistakenly attribute the "playing" bit to me also. I too have enjoyed her posts as she is informative, articulate, intelligent, and provides a unique viewpoint for this forum, even if it is depressing to me hearing what crap she has had to endure. It is damn depressing to hear about the atrocities of the Nazis in the concentration camps or how the Japenese used the Chinese people as human guinea pigs at Harbin; but I still want to know about them.

I am fully aware that Bionca has an agenda just like we all do. For some on here, that me be that they simply want to "sex chat" while others have loftier subjects on their mind. I do find it interesting that no one had anything to say about Hank. Perhaps Krissy would if she entered into this. Now I really do think Hank is "playing" a role; as agitator, as stirrer of the pot, etc. And that's okay with me as he does keep the dialogue going.

And that is what I'm here for; the connection, preferably the higher minded segment. Sure it's agravating to have to wade through the flotsam to find the jewels but like I know, it comes with the territory. LOL, the silly messages I have gotten. I have even considered taking my pics down and replacing with a generic avatar. But since I feel that they would be like hiding, I don't.

PS Special note to ila - are you sure Bionca never makes a catty or condescending remark? Maybe you best take a closer look at Post#25 above.

[Jenae LaTorque]

What does sum tempestas fusca qua perducit terra mean?

************************************************** ***
hey man there is some heavy shit coming down on you and it's me!

Ya get the point? This is under the category of games and I said no games!

[Jenae LaTorque]

Is it weird that I'm attracted to my mums best friend who is 43 and is pretty hot
*******************************

As Spock would say. "Insufficient data" Perhaps you are 44 and pretty hot yourself.

One person's "wierd' is another person's "normal".

[Jenae LaTorque]

Can you get any disease from kissing or spiting in the mouth? Putting a finger in the ass and lick it? Licking ass with toung? Or kissing with my cum with other person?

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Of course ya can. There are mamy vectors of disease transmission and those all qualify.

[lanakreuk]

hey this is lanakreuk how come you haven`t responded to my messages i was sincere with my request to start fresh please respond:respect:

[Rachel]

How come the best days of fishing are always yesterday and tomorrow? lol

[TheSkronkDonkey]

************************************************** *********

All right, all of you. I did not attack Bionca. I did not say she was stupid, unreasonable, or talked mishmash, or picked her nose, or anything like those.
1. I did say I found her depressing which is my overall take on her and I am entitled to state my opinion. Is "depressing" all that bad ? 2. I also said she enjoyed the role of victim -- I did not say she "played" the role of victim, that was said by another. For example, if I said "Richard Nixon had a role in Watergate", does that mean that he was playing? Hell no, it means he was involved in it; he took part, he participated.

Now I am glad that Bionca has some chivalrous knights to come galloping to her defense, but I think she does well enough on her own, although she did mistakenly attribute the "playing" bit to me also. I too have enjoyed her posts as she is informative, articulate, intelligent, and provides a unique viewpoint for this forum, even if it is depressing to me hearing what crap she has had to endure. It is damn depressing to hear about the atrocities of the Nazis in the concentration camps or how the Japenese used the Chinese people as human guinea pigs at Harbin; but I still want to know about them.

Nixon, Nazis, Japanese?

And here was me thinking this was just about one member choosing to knock another. ;)

You didn't attack Bionca? You didn't imply she plays a role?

This is what you wrote:

As for Bionca - I find her depressing, she seems to enjoy the role of "victim" and I find myself snorting at her signature line about hating being braver than the guys she dates.

"The role of ... "

"Victim" (in quotation marks)

These kinda imply you see her as embellishing or, to use the parlance you disdain, "playing", a role. No?

Further, you rhetorically ask: "Is 'depressing' bad?" Well, you seem to think so ... otherwise, why point it out, as you originally did, about another member? And why claim to "snort" at Bionca's signature?

What you said was very confrontational and smug-sounding. Anyone in their right mind can see that. If you had truly wanted to express yourself in a polite, non-hostile way, you could have added some positives to your original remarks (rather than coming out with some after the fact). Or said nothing at all.

Finally, the claim that Bionca has "chivalrous knights" coming to her defence? Pure jealousy. If Bionca has people willing to defend her, it's because she has engendered herself to them with her words and her deeds. Food for thought.

[fuckstudent]

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Of course ya can. There are mamy vectors of disease transmission and those all qualify.

yes, but i mean some incurable diseases...like HIV, hepatitis...

damn, if yes, how can i ever enjoy those fetishes safely with escort girls...

[Jenae LaTorque]

Nixon, Nazis, Japanese?

And here was me thinking this was just about one member choosing to knock another. ;)

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Finally, the claim that Bionca has "chivalrous knights" coming to her defence? Pure jealousy. If Bionca has people willing to defend her, it's because she has engendered herself to them with her words and her deeds. Food for thought.

imply she plays ? ... kinda imply? ... seem to think?

:lol: Buckle up, oh brave knight, your blows are weakening! You have the dragon chuckling.

[TheSkronkDonkey]

Wow. Very mature. You sure showed me.

[Bionca]

So according to you I "...enjoyed the role of victim". Curious that since I try to navigate my life in a way to minimize personal victimization, while still being unashamed in being trans. The result of this is living in ways that expose me to specific "victimization" due solely to my status as a trans woman. I hardly "enjoy" this, but I simply refuse to keep quiet about it. For example, I didn't enjoy having to wait for almost two hours in an airport in Mexico trying to get home because my passport says I'm a man, because my state will not modify my birth certificate. Rather, I was scared shitless because I just didn't know what would happen.

Further, I'm quite curious how you see a trans woman participating in their "victimization"? I mean Nixon was hardly a passive participant in Watergate. Did I choose a pharmacist that would ask REALLY loudly "Why is a guy getting estrogen at THIS dose"? Seriously... we live in a place and time that can be very difficult and complicated for trans women at best. How does one actively participate in holding up that systen while trying to work against it and navigate through it?

[randolph]

Well Jenae, its good to know that you have a high IQ, are well read and you are available to provide "real answers".
Here's a question. How big does ones ego have to be in order to brag about it?
Do we have to wait much longer? ;):lol:

[TracyCoxx]

LOL I was wondering that myself. Reminds me of those song lyrics...

You've been telling me you're a genius since you were seventeen
In all the time I've known you I still don't know what you mean...

[ladyboys rule]

*******************************

As Spock would say. "Insufficient data" Perhaps you are 44 and pretty hot yourself.

One person's "wierd' is another person's "normal".

Nah I'm 18 and I think she Is attracted to me a bit as we talk about sex and girls and that and gives me condoms and that also when I stay at hers she walks around in tight fitting trousers n shorts and wears tight tops and she also has big tits and a alright body do you think I should talk to her about it or just make a move

[franalexes]

Why are there more horses asses than there are horses or proof there of? One has only to ask the question on this thread I suppose.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Nah I'm 18 and I think she Is attracted to me a bit as we talk about sex and girls and that and gives me condoms and that also when I stay at hers she walks around in tight fitting trousers n shorts and wears tight tops and she also has big tits and a alright body do you think I should talk to her about it or just make a move

I am not quite sure what you mean by "stay at hers." Do you you stay overnight at her place? As to the maybe signals you are getting; it may be that she is just a flirt. It is really hard to tell from this little information but I will tell you what I think so far. There is potential for a lot of trouble here since a little fling between you and your Mom's best friend could blow up big time. While some experiance with an older woman can be a very instructive experiance, it would be much better usually with a stranger. You know these people, I don't. Think hard about how free or restricted they are in their attitudes. Maybe ask some exploratory questions. You are very young, so according to normal practice it is really up to the older woman to initiate things. I think it would really be best for you to play cool here. Meanwhile there are a lot of girls nearer your own age out there and more than one of them is horny also.

[Jenae LaTorque]

How come the best days of fishing are always yesterday and tomorrow? lol

HUH? My best day of fishing is when I'm actually there working a dry fly across a quiet zone at the bottom of a likely riffle.

That word "always," It always bothers me, cause I'm always not sure whether such absolutes are always valid.

[Jenae LaTorque]

yes, but i mean some incurable diseases...like HIV, hepatitis...

damn, if yes, how can i ever enjoy those fetishes safely with escort girls...

Wadda ya want,.... to live forever!? It's just like the rest of life. You take reasonable precautions to minimize your risk, while acknowledging the fact that no matter how you play the game - sometime the odds will jump up and kick you in the teeth just when you thought you were safe.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Wow. Very mature. You sure showed me.

Lighten up, Sir Lovesalot. Perhaps your apparent lack of a sense of humor is a sensitive spot?

[lanakreuk]

jenae do you prefer men women or ladyboys or does it depend on the person and or personality

[Jenae LaTorque]

Why are there more horses asses than there are horses or proof there of? One has only to ask the question on this thread I suppose.


Same reason there are more people who think they are clever than who actually are.


That reason being that there is no direct and definable relationship between one and the other.

[Jenae LaTorque]

So according to you I "...enjoyed the role of victim". Curious that since I try to navigate my life in a way to minimize personal victimization, while still being unashamed in being trans. The result of this is living in ways that expose me to specific "victimization" due solely to my status as a trans woman. I hardly "enjoy" this, but I simply refuse to keep quiet about it. For example, I didn't enjoy having to wait for almost two hours in an airport in Mexico trying to get home because my passport says I'm a man, because my state will not modify my birth certificate. Rather, I was scared shitless because I just didn't know what would happen.

Further, I'm quite curious how you see a trans woman participating in their "victimization"? I mean Nixon was hardly a passive participant in Watergate. Did I choose a pharmacist that would ask REALLY loudly "Why is a guy getting estrogen at THIS dose"? Seriously... we live in a place and time that can be very difficult and complicated for trans women at best. How does one actively participate in holding up that systen while trying to work against it and navigate through it?
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

I need to have an affirmative answer before I really go into this. Because I warn you, it may be very hard to take. An option you may wish to consider is that I answer you in a private message. I am leaving it up to you bacause I do respect you as a good person.

[Jenae LaTorque]

jenae do you prefer men women or ladyboys or does it depend on the person and or personality

Let the data speak

On my hard drives I have: over 320,000 file in the sections marked SM

over 158,000 files in the babe section

less than 100 files in the men section.

Hmmmm, what does this say about my preferances? You tell me.

[Bionca]

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

I need to have an affirmative answer before I really go into this. Because I warn you, it may be very hard to take. An option you may wish to consider is that I answer you in a private message. I am leaving it up to you bacause I do respect you as a good person.

It's your thread, answer however you like - PM or in public.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Bionca, you are evading the question here. In any case, it's been a long day and I need some sleep and it will take a while to organize my thoughts on this matter and set them down. I don't want to just reply off the cuff on this as many of my answers have been.

[Bionca]

Not sure what question I'm evading. If you think your comments would derail the topic, as it probably will, I think a PM would be an solution I would be open to. If you would prefer to have this happen in the thread, I will read it and respond.

[sesame]

OOOOh! Bionca, hot babe, your charm increases tenfold when you get angry.:inlove:

[sesame]

Ok, here is my question No. 1. (more coming...)

Whats the degree of emotional involvement that separates a Tv from a Tg?

Hint: A Tv just changes getup and attire, while a Tg jumps headlong and goes through the pains of changing her whole body.



Its not a personal question. I'm asking out of academic interest.:innocent:

[TheSkronkDonkey]

OOOOh! Bionca, hot babe, your charm increases tenfold when you get angry.:inlove:

Don't belittle her.

She got insulted when she hadn't even posted to the thread.

If that had happened to me, I wouldn't be too happy about it -- least of all when the person who did it keeps playing games and says I'm "evading" a "question".

[Jenae LaTorque]

Ok, here is my question No. 1. (more coming...)

Whats the degree of emotional involvement that separates a Tv from a Tg?

Hint: A Tv just changes getup and attire, while a Tg jumps headlong and goes through the pains of changing her whole body.



Its not a personal question. I'm asking out of academic interest.:innocent:

:no::no::no:

Hint? HINT!!! What in the hell do you think you are doing here ya twit? This is not a thread for you to be asking questions as if you were a teacher giving an examination.

As you should know the answer to such a sloppy, simple, ill-defined question would be very complex and dependable on many variables which you haven't specified.

Emotional involvement is largely dependant on the individual involved, but in general; I should think the average (if there is such a thing) trans gendered woman would usually be more emotionally involved then the average (if there is such a thing) transvestite. To what degree? That is like saying 4x - 394,084y = ??z. Totally meaningless without some definition or quantization of the variables.

Interesting that you should define the process as pain. Is striving for a goal necessarily a painful thing? Is pain necessarily a "bad" thing? Ya know pain teaches many lessons and is a part of life. A lesson I remember involving pain has stuck with me my whole life since I was 5 years old and has served me well. "It is not wise to catch bumblebees with your bare hands." :D

[Jenae LaTorque]

Don't belittle her.

She got insulted when she hadn't even posted to the thread.

If that had happened to me, I wouldn't be too happy about it -- least of all when the person who did it keeps playing games and says I'm "evading" a "question".
__________________________________________________ ____________

You can stop defending Bionca. After all, she does so much better than you anyway. And whats with the silly name "SkronkDonkey". We have already figured out you're a bit of an ass at times. I admit I had to look up the term Skronk (generation gap showing there) so is it SexDonkey, DiscordantNoise Donkey, or what? In any case; seems pretty infantile to me. So are you unhappy now?

[Bionca]

Ok, here is my question No. 1. (more coming...)

Whats the degree of emotional involvement that separates a Tv from a Tg?

Hint: A Tv just changes getup and attire, while a Tg jumps headlong and goes through the pains of changing her whole body.



Its not a personal question. I'm asking out of academic interest.:innocent:

One thing that might want to be mentioned here is that there is no hierarchy (or shouldn't be). A TV and/or CD is just as valid an identity and starting/ending point as being a TS. The emotional involvement, I would say is the same.

While there are some aspects to being TS/TG that are harder to be sure, there are probably just as many aspects to being a TV/CD that are just as challenging. A clumsy comparison would be the difference between a bisexual and a homosexual. Both share many intersections, but also have their own unique challenges and ultimately their own rewards.

[TheSkronkDonkey]

__________________________________________________ ____________

You can stop defending Bionca. After all, she does so much better than you anyway. And whats with the silly name "SkronkDonkey". We have already figured out you're a bit of an ass at times. I admit I had to look up the term Skronk (generation gap showing there) so is it SexDonkey, DiscordantNoise Donkey, or what? In any case; seems pretty infantile to me. So are you unhappy now?

You must be feeling the heat if you're calling an aspect of me "infantile".

I'm happy you only see the negative in life. Keep it up. :respect:

[randolph]

:no::no::no:

Hint? HINT!!! What in the hell do you think you are doing here ya twit? This is not a thread for you to be asking questions as if you were a teacher giving an examination.

As you should know the answer to such a sloppy, simple, ill-defined question would be very complex and dependable on many variables which you haven't specified.

Emotional involvement is largely dependant on the individual involved, but in general; I should think the average (if there is such a thing) trans gendered woman would usually be more emotionally involved then the average (if there is such a thing) transvestite. To what degree? That is like saying 4x - 394,084y = ??z. Totally meaningless without some definition or quantization of the variables.

Interesting that you should define the process as pain. Is striving for a goal necessarily a painful thing? Is pain necessarily a "bad" thing? Ya know pain teaches many lessons and is a part of life. A lesson I remember involving pain has stuck with me my whole life since I was 5 years old and has served me well. "It is not wise to catch bumblebees with your bare hands." :D

Its amazing what arrogance and inconsideration can do for the ego.:frown:

[Jenae LaTorque]

You must be feeling the heat if you're calling an aspect of me "infantile".

I'm happy you only see the negative in life. Keep it up. :respect:
88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 8888888888

Nah!!!, if I only see the negative in life; why does Satchamo singing "It's a Wonderful World" usually bring tears to my eyes.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Its amazing what arrogance and inconsideration can do for the ego.:frown:

Yes, Isn't it?


Ya twit!


Speaking of twits, why is it that there are pictures of Bionca, Rachel, Me, and several other Tgirls on here, but other than Rockabilly, who I have always found to be a noble soul, I don't recall pictures of guys who term themselves as ladyboy lovers. Instead you let some symbol represent you in your avatars, which in way too many cases is a pic of your cock. :lol: Actually I guess that symbol representing you makes a certain amount of sense; judging from many the messages that I have received, it's the little head that is doing the thinking and talking for most of you. :lol:

[sesame]

Question No. 2 (more are there... ;))

What happens to a bumblebee if it cant find it's way home? :p
Say, it has messed up it's sense of direction with Anger. And some tiny fuse has gone off in it's head.

[sesame]

Hi there sister,
You keep calling people Twit. Cant you use more variations of uncouth words? That would be more interesting to read. Twit, twit, twit ... Twitter... its getting a little monotonous. Broaden your vocabulary.

With all due :respect:

[Jenae LaTorque]

Question No. 2 (more are there... ;))

What happens to a bumblebee if it cant find it's way home? :p
Say, it has messed up it's sense of direction with Anger. And some tiny fuse has gone off in it's head.

This question definitely qualifies as playing games. What else could it be when you ascribe upper level emotions to an insect, place an imaginary fuse in his head, and then want to know what happens. Not to mention of what possible use would an answer to such foolishness be of to you.

Oh, darn, I forgot. You are a twit. ------- Foolishness is what fills your head.

What's the problem? --------------- Leaking out faster than you can put it in?

I do have an answer for that. ---------- Keep your mouth shut and the foolishness won't leak out so fast.

[sesame]

Have you never seen a swarm of angry bees attack?
ascribe upper level emotions to an insectAh, that answers so many things. You consider Anger as an upper level emotion! Thats why you are so full of it most of the time!

Insect?:D
But it was "Jenae LaTorque", not me, who compared herself to a Bumble bee!
Learn to take a joke, dont get so offended at nothing.

I havent articulated a single illname, but you have called so many members Twit, Stupid and what not! You know, calmness is a measure of your real wisdom.

[randolph]

Yes, Isn't it?


Ya twit!


Speaking of twits, why is it that there are pictures of Bionca, Rachel, Me, and several other Tgirls on here, but other than Rockabilly, who I have always found to be a noble soul, I don't recall pictures of guys who term themselves as ladyboy lovers. Instead you let some symbol represent you in your avatars, which in way too many cases is a pic of your cock. :lol: Actually I guess that symbol representing you makes a certain amount of sense; judging from many the messages that I have received, it's the little head that is doing the thinking and talking for most of you. :lol:

Twit can be defined as a bothersome person. I suggest you need to be bothered. Why? You seem to be interested in attempting to provoke and annoy many of us. Oh, yes, that seems to be the definition of a twit, isn't it? :D

[Jenae LaTorque]

Have you never seen a swarm of angry bees attack?
Ah, that answers so many things. You consider Anger as an upper level emotion! Thats why you are so full of it most of the time!

Insect?:D
But it was "Jenae LaTorque", not me, who compared herself to a Bumble bee!
Learn to take a joke, dont get so offended at nothing.

I havent articulated a single illname, but you have called so many members Twit, Stupid and what not! You know, calmness is a measure of your real wisdom.

•:*¨¨*:••:*¨¨*:••:*¨¨*:••:*¨¨*:••:*¨¨*:••:*¨¨*:••: *¨¨*:••:*¨¨*:•

1. Haven't I ever seen....? Yup, but mostly I was too busy getting the hell out of there to do much observing. :D

2. I am full of anger? - Yes, so much that I break into laughter quite often while reading and answering these posts. I even laughed at your allusion "full of it". LOL

3. Compared myself to a bumble bee? I related a lesson learned from when I was a child. A lesson learned when I caught a bumblebee in my hands and the natural thing happened. True Story. So where's the comparison of myself to a bumblebee? In your mind, buddy! If my mind worked like yours. I could say, "Get thee below me, Son of Satan." And of course you would have to wonder where in hell did that come from. I am curious to see if you can figure out how one could equate you with Son of Satan.;)

4. Yes it is true that you have not transgressed on RULE # 3. You have however skirted around the edges with sly inferances and innuendo. Your very first posts started out with the titles "Bianca Jousting Jenae" and "Trick Question" which would seem to set the tone for all that followed.

5. "Calmness ... widsom." I will take that as a compliment since outside of a few moments of laughter I have remained calm throughout. You seem to be a guy who makes inferances from little evidence and that mostly taken out of context. Is it my red hair that makes you think I must have a temper, and am easily provoked to anger?

Lest you think ill of me, I do want you to know I am enjoying this verbal sparring as I believe I am aquitting myself well. You seem to be a nice enough YOGI. ???

:hug: Jenae

[Jenae LaTorque]

Twit can be defined as a bothersome person. I suggest you need to be bothered. Why? You seem to be interested in attempting to provoke and annoy many of us. Oh, yes, that seems to be the definition of a twit, isn't it? :D

Ah ha! Went to a dictionary did ya? Great! At least now you are clearer about my meaning; at least as much as words are capable of doing. That is the problem with words; sometimes they fail to convey meaning and the true essence of one person's thought to another. That would be why context is so important. The world is full of misunderstandings due to the differant associations with words we all have. I have tried to be sensitive to such nuances ever since I took a communications class in college. So I note the use of qualifiers in your statement: "can be", "suggest", "seems to be". This suggests to me that you are either being overly polite, or that you may be a wimp who is afraid to "call a spade, a spade." ???

Anyway, you seem to be a nice enough Yogi also, and I thank you for your input.

:hug: Jenae

[sesame]

So lets celebrate this Buddyship with a brand new question. I hope I'm not annoying you? And I am still allowed to ask, eh? Here is a good question for you and its not a foolish one.:p

#3#
How can you remove the pesky index.dat files from the history, cookies and temporary internet files? This is about erasing the slate clean of internet activities and keeping the PC (personal computer) personal.

[randolph]

Ah ha! Went to a dictionary did ya? Great! At least now you are clearer about my meaning; at least as much as words are capable of doing. That is the problem with words; sometimes they fail to convey meaning and the true essence of one person's thought to another. That would be why context is so important. The world is full of misunderstandings due to the differant associations with words we all have. I have tried to be sensitive to such nuances ever since I took a communications class in college. So I note the use of qualifiers in your statement: "can be", "suggest", "seems to be". This suggests to me that you are either being overly polite, or that you may be a wimp who is afraid to "call a spade, a spade." ???

Anyway, you seem to be a nice enough Yogi also, and I thank you for your input.

:hug: Jenae

Yeah, I was being kinda polite, just using the spade for a few gentle digs. :lol: I am glad you are mellowing out. :respect::hug:

[TheSkronkDonkey]

Well, if everyone is cooling off, then I can say the "bumblebees" line is a good one. Very poetic and very true.

[Jenae LaTorque]

#3#
How can you remove the pesky index.dat files from the history, cookies and temporary internet files? This is about erasing the slate clean of internet activities and keeping the PC (personal computer) personal.[/quote]

************************************************** **********

Pesky? LOL! So they are twitting you? :lol:

You could try this - http://www.codeode.com/privacymantra/index.html (http://www.codeode.com/privacymantra/index.html)

or http://www.compu-docs.com/indexdat.htm (http://www.compu-docs.com/indexdat.htm)

There are very few problems, if any, where there isn't some information on the net that will help you out. Myself; I have not experianced any great problem from this issue. I use McAfee as my primary defense and thus have had few problems with invasions, intrusions, pop ups, etc. One big problem since I became a McAffe when I had to completely wipe my primary hard drive (after saving all crucial data to another HD ), and then reinstalling all of my programs, drivers, etc.. Boy, wasn't that fun? :no:

I have in my Favorites file quite a few computer help web sites that are helpful in moments of need. And then a search on Google is usually quite productive. I really don't know how I would survive without search engines.
Some sites that I find helpful:

http://www.answersthatwork.com/

http://www.geeks.com/

http://www.zdnet.com/


Good luck, Jenae

[Naked Freedom]

Jenae, i thought u to be an intelligent person until i stumbled over this thread and it seems that you might be intelligent but you are a show off.....
there are many intelligent ppl out in this forum but they dont brag abt their credentials.... the tone of the first post in this thread bears testimony to the fact that u want to show off that u are intelligent which is a very unintelligent thing to do..
Remember you are a genius when others say you are..... let your actions speak for you....
if you are really intelligent, ppl around will soon come to know abt it but if u brag abt it......u will spoil ur impression..

[Jenae LaTorque]

Jenae, i thought u to be an intelligent person until i stumbled over this thread and it seems that you might be intelligent but you are a show off.....
there are many intelligent ppl out in this forum but they dont brag abt their credentials.... the tone of the first post in this thread bears testimony to the fact that u want to show off that u are intelligent which is a very unintelligent thing to do..
Remember you are a genius when others say you are..... let your actions speak for you....
if you are really intelligent, ppl around will soon come to know abt it but if u brag abt it......u will spoil ur impression..

************************************************** *********

I really don't see a question here so I guess you just wanted to make a statement, that is you wanted to put your 2 cents in and put me down. Well, that's okay too ---- get in line. lol

My 2 cents worth in return.:lol:

As to my being unintelligent by stating some of my qualifications; that is debatable. In some contexts it would be the height of arrogance to state qualifications like these; as in a one to one conversation. In other situations such as a business discussion, it would be the utmost in folly.

But in this situation, my point was to encourage the forthcoming of questions. Hopefully, serious and intelligently put questions. As you can see the results have been mixed. More to the point, if I was just bragging, I would be mentioning that I have gotten a whole bunch of admiration messages on my pictures, and that I used to be called donkey dong in my younger days before I settled down. Of course I didn't mention those things because they were irrelevant to the matter at hand. Furthermore, I was only out to make the impression that it might be worthwhile to try a question...nothing more.

As to your statement about genius, I am sure that it is not strictly true. Is genius a state of being that is only attained by the recognition of your peers. History is full of examples of people that were undoubtably geniuses but were regarded by their peers as madmen or fools. Also, what relationship did your quote have to me? I certainly did not say I was a genius; are you guilty of putting words in my mouth that I did not say. Are you also making assumptions from too few facts?


:hug: Jenae LaTorque

[randolph]

So lets celebrate this Buddyship with a brand new question. I hope I'm not annoying you? And I am still allowed to ask, eh? Here is a good question for you and its not a foolish one.:p

#3#
How can you remove the pesky index.dat files from the history, cookies and temporary internet files? This is about erasing the slate clean of internet activities and keeping the PC (personal computer) personal.

If you are using Mozilla Firefox (you should be). It is easy to set up controls of internet files. I clear all files and cookies each time I turn off. They can be held for a period of time or cleared each time you turn off Firefox. Internet explorer has similar features but they are not quite as easy to find and set up.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Are you sure that you clear ALL files when you exit? I am no expert on MF but I know it is not so simple to clear ALL files in IE. Yes you can easily set the controls to clear most of the files when IE is shut down but not all as the sites I posted links to above will explain.

[TheSkronkDonkey]

More to the point, if I was just bragging, I would be mentioning that I have gotten a whole bunch of admiration messages on my pictures, and that I used to be called donkey dong in my younger days before I settled down.

Let's see. In chronological order:

- Boasted about having an IQ of over 150 (a virtually meaningless number, unless you're Newton or Einstein)

- Superficially put down Bionca and attacked other people for defending her

- Derided the styles and names of other posters

- Boasted about personal appearance

And this one's for free:

- Has uneven spelling, punctuation and grammar (amazingly weak lingual skills for a person whose purported IQ implies supreme verbal aptitude)

In conclusion:

biswajyoti has your number. Sorry to say, but all this behaviour proves one thing: you're a very insecure (and fallacious) person.

[sesame]

If you are using Mozilla Firefox (you should be). It is easy to set up controls of internet files. I clear all files and cookies each time I turn off. They can be held for a period of time or cleared each time you turn off Firefox. Internet explorer has similar features but they are not quite as easy to find and set up.Randolph,
In windows explorer, even if you delete all files from history, cookies and temporary internet files, windows keep a record of all the sites you have been to in files called index.dat. You feel happy and safe after clearing the cache but everything is still there, its a false sense of security. What must be done is to erase the index.dat files. But windows wont allow them to be deleted.

So what do you do? You restart and enter your hard drive in DOS mode (where there is no windows to boss around). Now everything can be deleted in a slow motion, command typing manner. After you kill those nasty fat index.dat files, you reboot. Windows will create new empty index.dat files again. No problemo!

You could try this - http://www.codeode.com/privacymantra/index.html

or http://www.compu-docs.com/indexdat.htm
Jenae, I was expecting some geeky soln. from you, not a 3rd party software like privacy-mantra. But Thanks, the codeode site describes the DOS method. OK, you helped.:respect:

That brings us to Question #4#;)

Is it possible to dual boot into an only Dos environment without windows? Say, there would only be qbasic or C if I may choose so, but no windows. I remember something like reconfiguring Autoexec.bat... but I have lost the code.

[sesame]

As to your statement about genius, I am sure that it is not strictly true. Is genius a state of being that is only attained by the recognition of your peers. History is full of examples of people that were undoubtably geniuses but were regarded by their peers as madmen or fools.

Guys, I agree with her on this one. Take Vincent van Gogh for example. The poor fellow couldnt make a dime selling his paintings in his whole damn lifetime. People didnt care about his art. He went in and out of hospitals due to depression and malnourishment. He didnt get a decent girlfriend, had to be happy with a thin ugly postitute as his companion. People laughed at his stupid style. He would have starved to death had his kind brother not helped him survive.

And now, after a century(1890 to the current date), he is suddenly the most sought after artist! His art sells for billions each. Man, this is an unfair world.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Sesame's Question #4#;)

Is it possible to dual boot into an only Dos environment without windows? Say, there would only be qbasic or C if I may choose so, but no windows. I remember something like reconfiguring Autoexec.bat... but I have lost the code.[/quote]

************************************************** *********
I only said I was somewhat of a computer nerd, not a full-blown geek. I guess you had best go google and find nerd heaven for the answer to that one cause you ain't gonna get anything from me.

Have you figured out the Son of Satan connection yet?

[sesame]

Vanity, Anger, Lust, Sloth, Greed, Gluttony and Envy: are the seven deadly sins. Are you referring to Anger as the son of Satan? Then if someone is a slave to Vanity, anger, lust and envy as well, what would you call him? Hark, Thou sons of Satan??:p

Or is there a reference to the poor bumblebee as the son of Satan, somewhere in the Good Book? Mine is upstairs in the attic. Do you want me to fetch it?

In fact, apart from the enormous stinging power, I admire the Bumblebee. You see, its body structure is not so aerodynamically streamlined. Yet as if by some miracle of nature, it manages to fly well!

[randolph]

Hi All,
Has anybody tried to use "codeode" to clear index.dat files? :eek:

[randolph]

Back again,
I found a program called "privacy guardian" on the internet that has good recommendations. I installed it and it seems to work, removing hundreds of "stuff". I rebooted and the computer seems to be working Okay. :yes:

[ila]

Back again,
I found a program called "privacy guardian" on the internet that has good recommendations. I installed it and it seems to work, removing hundreds of "stuff". I rebooted and the computer seems to be working Okay. :yes:

Randolph, do you have a link to where you found the program? I realize users can do an internet search for it, but it would make it easier if you posted the link. Also consider starting a new thread on computer help and posting the link in that.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Vanity, Anger, Lust, Sloth, Greed, Gluttony and Envy: are the seven deadly sins. Are you referring to Anger as the son of Satan? Then if someone is a slave to Vanity, anger, lust and envy as well, what would you call him? Hark, Thou sons of Satan??:p

Or is there a reference to the poor bumblebee as the son of Satan, somewhere in the Good Book? Mine is upstairs in the attic. Do you want me to fetch it?

In fact, apart from the enormous stinging power, I admire the Bumblebee. You see, its body structure is not so aerodynamically streamlined. Yet as if by some miracle of nature, it manages to fly well!
__________________________________________________ ___________
Word Association Flow Chart

Your avatar--> Anubis ---> Lord of the Underworld (Egyptian) ---> Lord of the Underworld (Hell in Christian theology) ---> Satan

Your forum name ---> Sesame ---> Seed from ".....on a sesame seed bun." ---> seed = son

I dont think there is a referance to a bumblebee in that book. Plenty referance to the honey bee of course since honey bees, as a source of honey, were very important to those folks. Thus they were the subject of observation, and from that were an example of virtues to be used in moral lessons. I am not too sure they much differentiated between the species of bees or even realized their relationship. Perhaps Randolph could fill us in on that?
The creationists have used the bumblebee as a nitpicking point aimed at scientists for a long time. Being the ignorant sort they are, they don't keep up on science knowledge and most are poverty stricken in that area. As to how the bumblebee does it; the answer is Sheer Power. Like the humingbird and the helicopter, the wings are short in proportion to the body.
This is because they have to move through the air very fast. The humingbird beats his wings up to 50 times per second. The bumblebee, whose wings are really not very efficient, must beat his wings up to 200 times per second. As a child I collected insects as part of a 4-H project. After the members of the order Lepidoptera (moths and butterflies) my favorites were the dragonflies and damselflies of the order Odonata. I have spent many hours watching them as they cruised the air currents over a body of water, ever ready to pick up a bite to eat (mostly mosquitos, some gnats and flies,). I have had many a dragonfly land on my fly rod while drifting a fly through a likely pool.

No, I don't like bumblebes. Did you know they can sting you and come back for seconds, something a honeybee can't do?

[sesame]

So, Miss Bug Scientist, what would you call a bee hive politics?

Despotism (for the queen is the unquestionable master of the hive)

Communism (for the worker bees labour around the clock in perfect harmony. The sisterhood of the worker bees are magnificently disciplined. (they are sterile sisters...)

So, what do you say?

Ah, before I forget... the thing about son of satan suggests that you have a really twisted mind. :lol:

I'm just pulling your leg, sister, dont get serious now!:rolleyes:

[Tread]

Or is there a reference to the poor bumblebee as the son of Satan, somewhere in the Good Book?

It is not in that book, but in old popular belief witches and the devil can transform into a bumblebee.

You see, its body structure is not so aerodynamically streamlined. Yet as if by some miracle of nature, it manages to fly well!

As to how the bumblebee does it; the answer is Sheer Power.

The bumblebee flies to slow to need a streamlined body, as the most insects. The belief that they should not be able to fly comes form calculate mistake. Someone calculated with a flat inflexible wing. But insect wings are flexible and have an incredible surface structure, which creates air turbulences that helps to get an aerodynamic lift.

In fact, apart from the enormous stinging power, I admire the Bumblebee.

By comparison to bees, wasps or hornets, bumblebees have a very weak stinging power. They only can get through human skin with additional force (in flight, forces from both sides at squeezing), or at thin skin.

If you are nice to a bumblebee it will never sting you.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Thanks for the info Tread.

Well, the bumblebee got me. The skin on the palm is thicker than most areas of the body, but I guess the palm of a child is thin enough. But then, maybe it wasn't a bumblebee after all, but a witch.:rolleyes:

[Tread]

Well, the bumblebee got me. The skin on the palm is thicker than most areas of the body, but I guess the palm of a child is thin enough. But then, maybe it wasn't a bumblebee after all, but a witch.:rolleyes:

Usually it feeds can't hold strong enough on the skin to sting. If it can push away from your fingers to your palm it is able to sting.
But you have to really endanger its life before it hurt you.

Did you burn or drown the "evil".

[ila]

Why do you think so many people post their threads in the wrong forum? Each forum has a short explanation of what it is for, yet many people never post in the appropriate forum but rather it seems wherever they feel like. I can understand it for those whose mother tongue is not English, but I cannot understand why native English speakers cannot get it right.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Did you burn or drown the "evil".


Aw come on! I was a little kid. I went crying to my mommy. I am pretty sure that the bumblebee escaped unscathed and was able to relate a good story that night with the boys as they sat around drinking their flagons of nectar.

[Tread]

I am pretty sure that the bumblebee escaped unscathed and was able to relate a good story that night with the boys as they sat around drinking their flagons of nectar.

Ahh, now you reveal yourself. You were the bumblebee. Burn you red haired man, female, bumblebee transforming which!

[Jenae LaTorque]

Why do you think so many people post their threads in the wrong forum? Each forum has a short explanation of what it is for, yet many people never post in the appropriate forum but rather it seems wherever they feel like. I can understand it for those whose mother tongue is not English, but I cannot understand why native English speakers cannot get it right.
************************************************** *********

They post in the wrong thread for several reasons. Some are newbies and really don't know and/or care what they are doing. Some who have been here for a while haven't learned better. I doubt there are many, if any, who do it intentionally.

I do think that this site could be more user friendly. I would think that a thread button on every page with a drop down menu that allowed the user to select the proper forum would help alleviate a lot of this problem. I don't know if this would be easy or hard to add to the programing; you would have to discuss this with your programmer. A good programmer should always be willing to consider suggestions on ways to improve the program.

I appreciate the job you moderators do to try to keep some sense of order here. I know I am always seeing people starting a new thread on an already existing topic. They must not bother to check the previous threads list or maybe they simply don't care. Perhaps the new thread page could be revamped in some way to more forcibly draw their attention to the existing threads.

Then there is the fact that while you may have some YOGIs ( "..smarter than the average bear" ), you will always have your Boo Boo bears also.:lol:
The only thing you can do about that is make the thing as idiot proof as possible and recognize that someone will still *****-it up.:rolleyes:

[ila]

************************************************** ********......I do think that this site could be more user friendly. I would think that a thread button on every page with a drop down menu that allowed the user to select the proper forum would help alleviate a lot of this problem......

That is a good suggestion. I have passed it along to admin.

[sesame]

I appreciate the job you moderators do to try to keep some sense of order here. I know I am always seeing people starting a new thread on an already existing topic. They must not bother to check the previous threads list or maybe they simply don't care. Perhaps the new thread page could be revamped in some way to more forcibly draw their attention to the existing threadsThat has already been done. Whenever anybody starts a New Thread, a list appears at the bottom of the webpage, warning the member of existing threads on the same subject.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Interesting coincidence today. Here we were discussing bumblebees and what do I come across while I am downloading pics? A tgirl with a bumblebee tatoo which is something I do not remember seeing before. This is Jannyane, from Rio, from Bobs Tgirls.

And yes, Sesame, the point in the my post was that perhaps the new thread page could be revamped - perhaps by moving the previous thread list to a position above the new thread box so the member would be more likely to look at it before beginning the new thread.

[sesame]

What tattoos do you have, Jenae?
This Bumblebee Tgirl is very pretty, I must admit.:yes:

[Jenae LaTorque]

When I was younger it was considered as something that only "low lifes" did and then of course there was the biblical proscription in Leviticus against it. I had lots of tatoos as a kid, but those were only the temporary ones that came with a piece of bubble gum. I never really had the urge to have one, so never did.

[The Conquistador]

What are some books you'd recommend for leisurely reading?

[Rachel]

Why are men so insecure ? Why are their egos as fragile as a house of cards? They say they love T girls but wont admit it in public.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Why are men so insecure ? Why are their egos as fragile as a house of cards? They say they love T girls but wont admit it in public.
__________________________________________________ _______________

I really don't believe men are alone in being insecure. It doesn't take much contemplation to bring to mind all the instances of insecurity in women. So, I will agree that most people are insecure to some degree or another.

As to their ego being as fragile as a house of cards and them being unable to admit to loving a Tgirl, I will say this. Nearly all men (and women) are social animals; most of their behavior and beliefs are governed by the culture and society in which are raised and in which they spend their day to day lives. It takes a rare man to even think differant from the stream of group consensus and an even rarer man to make a stand upon his convictions and stand like a rock against the stream. History is full of people who have braved the tide of popular opinion and beliefs. Some were burned (Jeane d'Arc), some were thrown in jail (Galileo), and some were even crucified (Jesus of Nazareth). Life ain't easy for the one who is differant. Some were lucky; they were only derided and looked upon with scorn. Man is not much better, if at all, than the animal kingdom where the odd one is often turned upon by their fellows and destroyed. If you see where I am going with this, then this is where you interupt me and say, "So what does this have to do with the question?"

The issue of transgenderism is still relatively unkown to the greater masses and thus most of their opinions are based on ignorance and misinformation.
It is the chasm, between this lack of knowledge about the subject by most of his peers (the group consensus) and his personal feelings that place our hero in a very difficult position. On one hand ,he has found this person who he is attracted to, and on the other hand, if he affirms this in public he may be subjected to the ridicule and contempt of his peers (the guys). Most men are going to go with their gut instinct which is of course that of survival.

There are a lot of paralels between this situation and the case of a pair of mixed race lovers a few generations back. And yet, look how much easily
mixed couples are taken in stride today. Sure there are pockets of resistance, but they are shrinking all the time. Hopefully this will become the case with TG relationships also. Hopefully it will evolve to tolerance, than to acceptance, and finally to loving people for who they really are and not judging them by the little boxes we tend to put them in.

I really hope you have the compassion and understanding to see the situation from your significant other's viewpoint. I realize that you have probably tried to discuss this with them, and it wasn't easy. Hopefully, I have helped to put you in a more knowlegable position for further discussion.

I do want to caution you that this is only one facet of the problems facing transgender couples, and my simple answer doesn't really begin to cover the subject. I am sure there is a wealth of information out there on the web. Have you really spent some time googling this subject and reading and thinking about what's out there?

[sesame]

Why are men so insecure ? Why are their egos as fragile as a house of cards? They say they love T girls but wont admit it in public.A man's fear of being called a "fag" or rediculed by the society (and relatives) is greater than his Love for the Tgirl.


Fear > Love

Thats the simple equation of insecurity.

[fuckstudent]

As we know some man loose hair geneticly when they get older. How is it with trannies? Does this count also for them if their father or grandfather was bold, or this doesn't happend with them because of the hormons they take?

[Rachel]

A man's fear of being called a "fag" or rediculed by the society (and relatives) is greater than his Love for the Tgirl.


Fear > Love

Thats the simple equation of insecurity.

Yeah I think you are both right. The very rare few come out of the closet.

[Jenae LaTorque]

As we know some man loose hair geneticly when they get older. How is it with trannies? Does this count also for them if their father or grandfather was bold, or this doesn't happend with them because of the hormons they take?
__________________________________________________ ______________

I'll admit that I had to do some research on this one. While I have lost some of my hair over the years, I am a very long way from being considered bald, and thus I had no reason to think much about this problem. The idea that baldness is inherited from ones maternal grandfather was commonly believed through the ages as that is what the evidence suggested. This would seem to hold up in my family; my mom's dad died with a fairly full head of hair. My cousin Roger was going bald before he was out of his thirties and his maternal grandpa was bald also. Some believes that this factor accounts for about 90% of all baldness.

Now as to your question, I believe the best answer is:

"Body and scalp hair may change in testure but hormone treatment will not inhibit beard growth or improve male pattern baldness."

this quote if from: http://www.transgenderzone.com/research/hrt.htm

which seems to be a very good place to answer this question and other questions you may have.

I would like to point out that as woman, tgirls are much more at liberty
to wear wigs and such to improve their appearance. We have all encountered a zillion jokes about rugs, toupees, etc. The truth of the matter is that many women experiance a balding problem, especially during, and after menopause. They account for a large percentage of wig sales every year. And no one puts them down for it. Another "inequality of treatment for the sexes" ??

[Jenae LaTorque]

What are some books you'd recommend for leisurely reading?
88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 88888888888888888

I really don't know how you define leisurely reading. A comic book? The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire? The Encyclopedia Britannica? the National Enquirer?

Please give me some examples of your idea of leisurely reading and then perhaps I can give you possible reccomendations.

[The Conquistador]

Mostly fiction and sci-fi but I like realistic sci-fi.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Mostly fiction and sci-fi but I like realistic sci-fi.
************************************************** *********

Realistic Science Fiction ???????

I am not sure what you mean by the add on term "realistic" that you use here. I think you are using the term to exclude fantasy type stories with elves, witches, wizards, etc. As you know. the line between the two genres is often blurred as in the Pern stories which focus on dragons. The worlds of science fiction are usually set in our future which makes it un-realistic to many so I will just reccomend some SF that I have found enjoyable and worthwhile.

1. Anything by Robert Heinlein starting with Stranger in a Strange Land . There is a reason he has won more Hugo awards for novels than anybody else.

2. The Dune Series by Frank Herbert. Even the continuation of the series by his son with K. Anderson are worthwhile.

3. The Ender Wiggins series by Orson Scott Card. I have never ever forgot the short story that spawned this series. Talk about a big oak tree that sprang from a little acorn.

4. The Foundation Series by Issac Assimov. Another author like Heinlein who has written tons of great books.


These are just a few. I could go on for hours talking about SF. But on to other genres. I have favorite authors of whom I love almost anything they write.

Stephan King - The master. There is a valid reason why he is the yardstick by which others are measured. The Stand is one of my all time favorites!

Anne Rice - Even if you don't care for vampire fiction, you should read Cry to Heaven and Memnoch the Devil. Forget about the crap she has written since she returned to the fold and embraced Christianity. She comes across like a naive beginner in those.

Colleen McCullough - Her series on Roman history has been characterised as "a work of monumental fiction" and I couldn't agree more. They are a great read. It doesn't matter if you are familiar with the history of Rome or not, she brings the characters to life like few other authors can, and creates a totally believable scenario from the immense amount of research she did prior to her writing.

James Michener - Which of his books did I like? Every last one of them!

I hope this is enough for now. It is hard to recommend a book to someone. Especially when you know next to nothing about them. I have read a lot of books in my life and it is hard to separate out the ones to reccomend; I have read so many good books. My folks gave me and my siblings a big advantage in this area. There was no TV in our house when I was a child and since we lived in the country, books were a constant influence. The interesting thing there is that my Dad, who was primarily responsible for this, wasn't near a voracious reader as any of us kids. Never understood this, or him, I guess. In later years he spent hours watching sports on TV; something I consider a great waste of time. I could give rat shit about whether the Broncs beat the Chiefs in a game, and I damn sure wasn't going to waste time watching the process. Thanks, Dad!

[sesame]

Why do men consider the escorts business unethical and "sinful" ;) and yet drool to enjoy their services?

[Jenae LaTorque]

Why do men consider the escorts business unethical and "sinful" ;) and yet drool to enjoy their services?

In one word Hypocricy

Now of course you meant only some men. As to why some men (and women)are hypocrites? Wow! Tall order there. Line up 100 hypocrites and you may find 100 differant reasons. One thing I have noticed. is that there seem to be a greater percentage of hypocrites found among "religious" people. In this case, I believe you would find that religious "guilt" would be responsible for quite a few of these two faced fellows.

We all rationalize the things we do, some more than others. And, sexual matters are one of the prime areas for this failing. We all have certain beliefs about what is right and wrong. And there is a great variance in where we draw the line that separates what is acceptable from what is not.

If we are honest, then what we profess as our position is the same as where we actually stand, and the same as where our behavior indicates we stand. What is really sad is that some people lie not so much to others as they lie to themselves. I am sure you know people like this. I myself would classify these as mental abberations, and possibly mental illness - depending on the severity of the case.

This brings up the question: What can be done about it? The only answer I can come up with is that hopefully they will change. It's not likely. Most people only change their thinking patterns when they get hit right in the face with something new and they are in a vulnerable position. That is why your religious converters have more success with the down and out, the hurting, the lost, the guilty-feeling, etc. Are you in a position to effect a change? Do you care enough about these people to expend the effort? Is there a danger to yourself in a confrontation? These are some of the questions only you can answer and must weigh carefully before acting.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

You will ansewer all?

How about these two riddles?

They're kinda easy, here goes.

1- The condemmed man is offered a choice he tells the judge a true or false statement, if the statement is true they will drown him, if the statement is false, they will burn him, what would your statement be?

2- The riddle of the sphinks (excuse my french), what animal walks on 4 legs in the morning, 2 legd in the afternoon, and 3 legs in the night?

Please specify if you already knew the ansewers.

Good Luck.

Johndowe.

[sesame]

Why do you think was Joan condemned by the Church of blasphemy and executed in a ghastly manner? On May the 30th 1431, she was tied to a pole and burnt alive in the middle of a marketplace!!

500 years later, this same Joan is cannonised to Sainthood by the Vatican Church!!

My querries are:
1)How can a "blasphemous witch", as she was called, become a saint over time?

2) Jesus said in essence to love your enemy as yourself---to pray for and bless your enemy. Now how can the Church disobey it's God and inflict inhumane torture? In so doing, the Church is going against Christ himself!

[Jenae LaTorque]

Hi there.

You will ansewer all?

How about these two riddles?

They're kinda easy, here goes.

1- The condemmed man is offered a choice he tells the judge a true or false statement, if the statement is true they will drown him, if the statement is false, they will burn him, what would your statement be?

2- The riddle of the sphinks (excuse my french), what animal walks on 4 legs in the morning, 2 legd in the afternoon, and 3 legs in the night?

Please specify if you already knew the ansewers.

Good Luck.

Johndowe.
- - - - - - - - - - - -

Easy ones and yes I heard the second one years ago, the answer of which is man.

As to the first one there is a multitude of statements you could make that are not provable one way or the other. You could say there are 16 planets circling the star Orion. Since they will not be able to prove your statement either way, they must defer sentance untill they can. Of course by that time your life will be long over so what do you care. There are a zillion statements that would work in this manner. Of course I suspect here that the answer you are looking for is a conundrum of some sort or another. A classic conundrum is the following:

"The second part of this statement is false, while the first part is true."

There are many like this around and there are many you may encounter in life. That is why there if the often used quote:

"damned if I do, damned if I don't"

I am curious to see if your answer eliminates the possibilities of both punishments or simply hanging hiss ass.

[Mel Asher]

Why do you think was Joan condemned by the Church of blasphemy and executed in a ghastly manner? On May the 30th 1431, she was tied to a pole and burnt alive in the middle of a marketplace!!

500 years later, this same Joan is cannonised to Sainthood by the Vatican Church!!

My querries are:
1)How can a "blasphemous witch", as she was called, become a saint over time?

2) Jesus said in essence to love your enemy as yourself---to pray for and bless your enemy. Now how can the Church disobey it's God and inflict inhumane torture? In so doing, the Church is going against Christ himself!

1 ) Rationale simply put ? Well in those times, Secular Politics wielded Power through the Sword ofetn reinforcing its Social control by claiming religious precedents. With ever increasing power, Religious orders were able to tailor their coats to suit their own purposes and reverse previously spin-based decisions.

Power corrupts but to achieving absolute power one must surrender to corruption ( with Apologies for corrupting poor old Lord Acton's quote )

2 ) The only God the Christian Church of the time truly worshipped was Power.
As is so sadly all too often the case, genuine carriers of ' Christ's ' message of Love and Forgiveness were few and far between, and usually silenced by Fear of the consequences of speaking out too boldly.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

The ansewer to the first riddle is: You will burn me.

if they go for the burn option the statement is therefore true they'd have to drown him, if they go for the drowning, the statement becomes false so, by their rules they can't execute him, et least not by burning or drowning.

JohnDowe.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Why do you think was Joan condemned by the Church of blasphemy and executed in a ghastly manner? On May the 30th 1431, she was tied to a pole and burnt alive in the middle of a marketplace!!

500 years later, this same Joan is cannonised to Sainthood by the Vatican Church!!

My querries are:
1)How can a "blasphemous witch", as she was called, become a saint over time?

2) Jesus said in essence to love your enemy as yourself---to pray for and bless your enemy. Now how can the Church disobey it's God and inflict inhumane torture? In so doing, the Church is going against Christ himself!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I see Mel already beat me to the punch here, but I will tell you how I see it.

Question 1 Answer : First I would say that saint and witch are only labels. As labels they are only a tag which we use to denote something. Jeane d'Arc was neither a saint or a witch, her essence was/is separate from any label. Labels change and evolve over time. Ex. At one time the earth was flat and the center of the universe. If you didn't believe it, then off to the rack with you. Now we know the earth isn't flat, and we know that it certainly isn't anywhere near the center of the universe if there is such a position in a seemingly infinite cosmos. Yes, it is nice to know that the CC can change it's position on matters when it becomes politically expediant to do so. These guys are not stupid you know - witness the change in their stated position on evolution. This kinda leads into the next answer.

Question 2 Answer: "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them" - Mat 7-20

The church could disobey their god because:

1. They really didn't believe there is a god and thus did not believe they would be accountable for their actions. And/Or...........
2. They were able to rationalize their actions by dismissing the core teachings of Jesus and pouncing on older teachings in the Old Testement which advocates attacking your enemies. Instead of turning the other cheek as Jesus advocated they were much more willing to smite them hip and thigh.
It's almost as if their bible was the Satanic Bible which urges:

"Hate your enemies with a whole heart," The Satanic Bible advises. "And if a man smite you on one cheek, smash him on the other! Smite him hip and thigh, for self-preservation is the highest law!"

3. In those days, the heads of the church were oftimes the most despicable sons a bitches that walked the earth. They were power-mongers whose main aim was the preservation of their control at any and all cost. They ruled through ignorance and the threat of excommunication and all that entails. They had the authority and the power to do pretty damn near anything they wanted. To put it simply, they were the survivors. They stamped out any dissenting views as heretical; as you may or may not know, the Crusades weren't just against Muslims, they also were against other branches of Christianity. Look up the crusades against the Cathars and the Albigensians if you are not familir with this topic.
I know my church history, even more so than the Founding Fathers of the United States did. They didn't put in the clauses separating Church and State on a whim. Considering it's bloody, bloody past, the Catholic Church has come back closer today to what Jesus taught. But, they still have a hell of a long way to go. When they take most of the resources they have and devote them to really helping the children of Jesus; they will then approach the ideals he spoke of. Meanwhile the Cardinals travel around in limos and fly in private jets...........they are still rationalizing their behavior.

Perhaps by now you have thought to youself, "this guy is ranting." Yes, if that is how you see it. I too like Jesus know that "most do not have ears to hear, nor eyes to see" to paraphrase him. Most people are so locked into their regular habits of thought that they cannot see the Truth right in front of them. My hope is not that you will believe my convictions; rather my hope is that you will find out for yourselves. That you will search out the truth of the matter for yourselves. That you will gather evidence and arguments from differant sources and both sides of the question. That you will weigh the data in a rational manner and decide for yourself.

Ah, I need a break. Catch ya all later, alligators.:lol:

[sesame]

I am aware of the 4th crusade, when the Crusaders, the saviors of Christianity, ransacked and looted Churches in and around Constantinople; they murdered infants and raped most of the nuns too. I can see the kind of Holy Battle they were up to.

[Tread]

1- The condemmed man is offered a choice he tells the judge a true or false statement, if the statement is true they will drown him, if the statement is false, they will burn him, what would your statement be?


The ansewer to the first riddle is: You will burn me.

They can kill him in the water for the true statement and burn him after to fulfil the statement.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

I think you're missing the point.

The statement canot be true & false at the same time!

Enough about that anyway.

JohnDowe.

[Rachel]

I always tell the truth even when I'm lieing:innocent:

[Tread]

I think you're missing the point.

The statement canot be true & false at the same time!


The statement is not false, they will burn him, after drownig him.
Nothing says that only one thing will happen, or that he will die while burning.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

It's a riddle, not a heavy phylodophycal discussion, it is supposed to be a clever ansewer to a unfair choice.

You have the riddle and you have the ansewer, what else do you want? (Rethorical, do not ansewer).

JohnDowe.

[sesame]

Whats the string theory?:drool:

[Tread]

I think I have a neurosis to answer this question. I waited, cause it's not my answer threat, but I can't anymore. I'm sorry if Jenae wants to answer.


The string theory tries to explain the four fundamental interactions. To do that, it had to combine quantum mechanics and general relativity (gravitation).

The string theory is not one theory, but a bunch of similar theories with little differences. They are different approximations of the M-theory.

The theory says that the smallest parts are, not as in the standard model 0-dimensional dots, 1-dimensional strings (lines). The strings are closed or, in some theory, can be open. The different shape and the different vibration of the strings describe their properties. This vibrating strings form everything that we know. Even the vacuum is made up of strings.

The theory isn't finished or has been experimental proved. But it is on a good way to explain the world. E.g.:
The standard model gets with the big bang or black holes to gravitational singularity or spacetime singularity, cause of the 0-dimensional dots. Singularity is not defined in math. The string theory avoids this problem with the 1-dimensional strings.
Also quantum mechanics can be explained better and more logic.


If you meant the band string theory or the Star Trek novel, I can't help.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Thanks Tread, I am sure everyone got that.:lol:

And, thanks for the slap in the face from your previous post.:lol: It woke me up to some realities of the situation on this forum. I am still considering what I want to do about it.

Now, back to string theory. I didn't answer Sesame because he was just flucking with me. If he really wanted an answer to the question, I am sure there are a ton of pages on the internet that are devoted to the subject.

The developments in theoretical physics have opened up so many possibilities that are simply staggering to our concepts of what is. Just the issue of branes alone presnts so many possibile doorways to other realities. In the area of UFO studies it presents possible answers as to where they come from and what they are. Branes may also hold the key as to mysterious disapearances and appearances of people and things that are unexplainable up till now.

One of the many things about these new concepts that intrigues me is the possibility of a connection between the idea that we are basically comprised of energy, and the many concepts of gods, angels, and even man that define them as beings of light and energy. Time after time, in the history of mankind and his metaphysical beliefs, you encounter these notions.

Notions like: chakras, auras, "light of god", "inner light", etc. Even:

"you're here to be light, bringing out the God-colors in the world."
- Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:14) just one of many sayings that deal with light.

Food for thought??;) even for an theist like me.

[sesame]

I didn't answer Sesame because he was just flucking with me. If he really wanted an answer to the question, I am sure there are a ton of pages on the internet that are devoted to the subject.Aww, C'mon, Sister Jenae, I couldnt see any clause in your thread saying,
"I wont entertain those questions, that have already been answered elsewhere in the infinite Internet!".

The theory says that the smallest parts are, not as in the standard model 0-dimensional dots, 1-dimensional strings (lines). The strings are closed or, in some theory, can be open. The different shape and the different vibration of the strings describe their properties. This vibrating strings form everything that we know. Even the vacuum is made up of strings.Well answered indeed! In that case, may I ask,
how many Strings are there?

For example, there are so many elements in the periodic table that combine in different proportions to create this world. Now, how many strings are there that combine to create this universe? Or is it a Multiverse? :p

So far, we find the smallest particle to be a Photon. Its even lighter and smaller than an electron. Photons are real particles. But then, photons are different as they vibrate in different frequencies.

Are these strings only a mathematical possibility or are they real, like photons?

[randolph]

I think all this stuff about string theory is a lot of mathematical hocus pocus.
there is no physical evidence for any of it. I am waiting for the Higgs Boson to arrive in the Large Hadron Collider, then, maybe, we can get a handle on what is going on in the subatomic world. :yes:

Also Jenae commented on energy. The Indian mystics contemplated the inner energy in humans and called it kundalini which is the latent female energy in all of us. Much of Tantric meditation involves activating this energy which transcends the ego and produces "enlightenment". Transsexuals and their admirers could be interested in this Tantric Yoga since the male and female energies are intertwined. :inlove:

The image is of a bisexual god/goddess worshiped in India.:respect:

[Tread]

how many Strings are there?

In principle there are infinity possibilities of vibrating strings.
The problem is to detect and measure them. The strings are described in 32 dimensions. Until now the dimensions are reduced to 10-, 11- or 26-dimensions in the sting theories. The Branes Jenae talked are a way to reduce the dimensions to our 4 measurable, 3 room and 1 time dimension. Until this happens, the energy of strings is too high.
The other problem is the "bigness" of strings, 10^-35m = 0,0000000000000000000000000000000001m. No one can measure it today.

I'm sure the number of strings is limited strongly by conditions. Until now minimal 18 particles are theoretical known, and then there is vacuum, time, dark energy and dark madder (I'm sure I forgot something). But nobody knows how many.
In the string theory, vibrating strings form everything. Bosons (photons, gravitons, higgs-bosons, ...), leptons (electron, different neutrinos, ...) and Quarks.
Quarks and leptons form fermions. Fermions and bosons form hadrons. Hadrons and fermions form nucleons (proton, neutron). Nucleons and electrons form atoms (elements in the periodic table).

So far, we find the smallest particle to be a Photon. Its even lighter and smaller than an electron. Photons are real particles. But then, photons are different as they vibrate in different frequencies.

I never heard someone was able to measure their bigness. But they can only a bit bigger then the string that form it. Their mass is 0, until someone find anti gravitation you can't find something lighter. They can be created and can be destroyed, without noticeable particles. So there must be unknown strings everywhere.

Are these strings only a mathematical possibility or are they real, like photons?

You can't say something is real or not until it is proven. No one can prove it today. The string theory and the surrounding theories are not ready. They must develop further. Until now they are the best way to explain the word.
They are not a mathematical possibility, they are fundamental in the string theory. But the theory is only 1 mathematical possibility, but only a theory and not finished.



I think all this stuff about string theory is a lot of mathematical hocus pocus.
there is no physical evidence for any of it. I am waiting for the Higgs Boson to arrive in the Large Hadron Collider, then, maybe, we can get a handle on what is going on in the subatomic world. :yes:

Also Jenae commented on energy. The Indian mystics contemplated the inner energy in humans and called it kundalini which is the latent female energy in all of us. Much of Tantric meditation involves activating this energy which transcends the ego and produces "enlightenment". Transsexuals and their admirers could be interested in this Tantric Yoga since the male and female energies are intertwined. :inlove:

I trust the mathematical hocus pocus more than the religious hocus pocus. And as said, it's only a theory.

In Tantra you lose life energy when you ejaculate.

[randolph]

Tread
"In Tantra you lose life energy when you ejaculate."
Yes, perhaps that's why tranny lovers like to consume it! ;)

Anyway, Tread, you are very knowledgeable about nuclear theories. Do you think the Higgs is a valid theory or is something else coming along? :respect:

[sesame]

So far, we find the smallest particle to be a Photon. Its even lighter and smaller than an electron. Photons are real particles. But then, photons are different as they vibrate in different frequencies.

I never heard someone was able to measure their bigness. But they can only a bit bigger then the string that form it. Their mass is 0, until someone find anti gravitation you can't find something lighter. They can be created and can be destroyed, without noticeable particles. So there must be unknown strings everywhere.

About Strings
Dear Mister Tread,
It was nice reading your little article. But you forget one tiny detail. Its the Law of conservation of matter and energy.
Matter cannot be created, nor can it be destroyed.
Similarly, Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it only changes form.
Even If you apply E=mc^2 formula, matter only gets transferred to energy. So, the sumtotal of all energy always remains the same. Now, how can you say that this most fundamental of all particles, can be created or destroyed? If its created, whence does it come? (If it originates from something else, its not the smallest one! ) If destroyed, where does it go? Bothways, its fundamental nature is proven false.

Now, about Photons:

We all know that Light is Radiant energy. By Light I include visible light and both sides of the spectrum. Radio waves with the lowest frequencies of 10^2 hertz,... microwaves 10^11 hertz... visible light 10^14 hz... UV 10^16hz... Xrays 10^19 hz....to Gamma Rays 10^20... cosmic rays 10^22hz the whole bunch! We can explain them by the wave theory as Electro Magnetic Radiation. That explains the velocity of light, reflection, refraction and so on.

But, Light can also be explained as consisting of particles, which explains Defraction and deviation of light from a straight line, while passing masses of great concentration and magnitude. Like planets, stars, black-holes. Scientists say that this happens due to the warping of the matrix around those bodies. And Photons (Light particles) follow the matrix. This my friend, can only be explained by the theory of Particles. And where there are particles, there has got to be some mass and bigness!

[randolph]

You guys are ignoring the Higgs boson, which is the fundamental particle which creates MASS in other particles. The following is from Wikipedia.

The Higgs boson particle is one quantum component of the theoretical Higgs field. In empty space, the Higgs field has an amplitude different from zero, i.e., a non-zero vacuum expectation value. The existence of this non-zero vacuum expectation plays a fundamental role: it gives mass to every elementary particle which has mass, including the Higgs boson itself. In particular, the acquisition of a non-zero vacuum expectation value spontaneously breaks electroweak gauge symmetry, which scientists often refer to as the Higgs mechanism. This is the simplest mechanism capable of giving mass to the gauge bosons while remaining compatible with gauge theories. In essence, this field is analogous to a pool of molasses that "sticks" to the otherwise massless fundamental particles which travel through the field, converting them into particles with mass which form, for example, the components of atoms.:yes:

[ila]

We all know that Light is Radiant energy. By Light I include visible light and both sides of the spectrum. Radio waves with the lowest frequencies of 10^2 hertz,... microwaves 10^11 hertz... visible light 10^14 hz... UV 10^16hz... Xrays 10^19 hz....to Gamma Rays 10^20... cosmic rays 10^22hz the whole bunch! We can explain them by the wave theory as Electro Magnetic Radiation. That explains the velocity of light, reflection, refraction and so on.


Time for a lesson on the electromagnetic spectrum, Sesame.

The lowest radio waves start and 10^3 hertz. Lower frequencies are referred to as voice frequencies. Microwaves start at just below 10^9 hertz and go to just below 10^12 hertz. Visible light is just below 10^15 hertz. In between microwaves and visible light is infrared. The rest I will agree with you.

[sesame]

Time for a lesson on the electromagnetic spectrum, Sesame.

The lowest radio waves start and 10^3 hertz. Lower frequencies are referred to as voice frequencies. Microwaves start at just below 10^9 hertz and go to just below 10^12 hertz. Visible light is just below 10^15 hertz. In between microwaves and visible light is infrared. The rest I will agree with you.

The extremely low freq Radio waves start from 3 x 10^1 to 3 x 10^2 hz.
Ila dear, learn from brother Sesame! For a detailed knowledge of radio waves, see the picture below. :D

I knew it would come from you, Ila!
Microwaves= 3 x 10^8 to 3 x 10^11 hz
So, is 10^11 hz wrong? :no:

Visible Light is 4 x 10^14 to 7.5 x 10^14 hz

Visible Light lies between Ultra Violet and InfraRed range.
UV lies between 10^15 to 10^17 hz. And I said 10^16 hz, so am I wrong?

So, you should agree with me all along, Ila, my friend!:p

[sesame]

The frequency charts for Radio waves and visible light are given below.

[ila]

The extremely low freq Radio waves start from 3 x 10^1 to 3 x 10^2 hz.
Ila dear, learn from brother Sesame! For a detailed knowledge of radio waves, see the picture below. :D

I knew it would come from you, Ila!
Microwaves= 3 x 10^8 to 3 x 10^11 hz
So, is 10^11 hz wrong? :no:

Visible Light is 4 x 10^14 to 7.5 x 10^14 hz

Visible Light lies between Ultra Violet and InfraRed range.
UV lies between 10^15 to 10^17 hz. And I said 10^16 hz, so am I wrong?

So, you should agree with me all along, Ila, my friend!:p

I cannot completely agree with you, sesame. Radio waves are always considered to start in the VLF range 3 - 30 khz (3 x 10^3 at the lower end). Anything below that is audio frequencies and frequencies at 3 x 10^1 and 3 x 10^2 are audible to humans.

You are right about microwaves, but your first answer only gave the upper end of microwaves. The least you could have done if you are going to quote only one number is to give the midrange.

The rest I will agree with you on. And yes, I was being picky, but only because it's fun to debate with you.

Remember sesame, tread lightly when you walk into the area of my trade.

[sesame]

Ila dear,
Please shed your majestic gaze on the above picture.
You will see, to your amazement, that Radio waves begin at 30 hertz only in the Extremely Low Frequency Range. ELF.

After that comes Ultra Low Freq beginning at 300 Hz. ULF.

After that comes Very Low Freq, starting at 3000 Hz. Its called VLF.

Refesh your info from time to time. Its very helpful.

Lots of love,
~sesame :p

[sesame]

I cannot completely agree with you, sesame. Radio waves are always considered to start in the VLF range 3 - 30 khz (3 x 10^3 at the lower end). Anything below that is audio frequencies and frequencies at 3 x 10^1 and 3 x 10^2 are audible to humans.Dear friend,
We are talking about Light here. Light is ELECTRO MAGNETIC RADIATION. It doesnt need any medium to travel through.

Sound is NOT an ELECTRO MAGNETIC RADIATION. It is only the vibration of the particles of a medium. Its a form of energy though. It cannot travel without a medium.

Human Audio range is between 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz. So, even though 30Hz sound overlaps with 30 hz Radio wave, we cannot hear a radio wave, because it doesnt vibrate air.

Light and Sound are two different things.:yes:

[Tread]

I never heard someone was able to measure their bigness. But they can only a bit bigger then the string that form it. Their mass is 0, until someone find anti gravitation you can't find something lighter. They can be created and can be destroyed, without noticeable particles. So there must be unknown strings everywhere.

About Strings
Dear Mister Tread,
It was nice reading your little article. But you forget one tiny detail. Its the Law of conservation of matter and energy.
Matter cannot be created, nor can it be destroyed.
Similarly, Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it only changes form.
Even If you apply E=mc^2 formula, matter only gets transferred to energy. So, the sumtotal of all energy always remains the same. Now, how can you say that this most fundamental of all particles, can be created or destroyed? If its created, whence does it come? (If it originates from something else, its not the smallest one! ) If destroyed, where does it go? Bothways, its fundamental nature is proven false.

I said without noticeable (for us by now) particles, and there must be unknown strings everywhere. I meant creating out of these strings and destroyed into these strings. I had better said changes into stings and photons.
But in today measurement we can not detect strings. It seems like they are created and destroyed out of and into nothing. Not clear written by me.

I did not say photons are most fundamental of all particles. The strings are the most fundamental objects that form photons, in string theory.

Now, about Photons:

We all know that Light is Radiant energy. By Light I include visible light and both sides of the spectrum. Radio waves with the lowest frequencies of 10^2 hertz,... microwaves 10^11 hertz... visible light 10^14 hz... UV 10^16hz... Xrays 10^19 hz....to Gamma Rays 10^20... cosmic rays 10^22hz the whole bunch! We can explain them by the wave theory as Electro Magnetic Radiation. That explains the velocity of light, reflection, refraction and so on.

But, Light can also be explained as consisting of particles, which explains Defraction and deviation of light from a straight line, while passing masses of great concentration and magnitude. Like planets, stars, black-holes. Scientists say that this happens due to the warping of the matrix around those bodies. And Photons (Light particles) follow the matrix. This my friend, can only be explained by the theory of Particles. And where there are particles, there has got to be some mass and bigness!

If you can explain reflection, refraction and so on fully by only using Electro Magnetic Radiation, you would know more than anyone else. This are also effects that only can explained with light as wave and particle.

Photons have no electric charge. But they carry electromagnetic force.
It could be possible that this causes the detraction of light by passing masses of great concentration and magnitude.
As long as nobody knows how gravitation, gravitons, works, we could not exclude an interaction of with zero mass photon.
It could also be possible that the photon has a mass, but then we need something new for quantum mechanics. It needs zero mass photons.
I don't know for sure, but in string theory every one calculates with zero mass photons.

If some one understands light fully or can combine quantum mechanics and general relativity, the Nobel prize is sure.




Do you think the Higgs is a valid theory or is something else coming along? :respect:

You answered the most yourself with wikipedia.

The Higgs bosons (there are five kinds of it) and the Higgs field are the easiest way to explain mass. Without mass none physic theory would work.
Maybe mass is more complicated, I don't know, but something must cause the mass.

If Higgs bosons exist, we are very close (a few years) to find them in particle accelerators like the LHC (Large Hadron Collider).

[Jenae LaTorque]

Thanks Tread, I am sure everyone got that.:lol:


Food for thought??;) even for an theist like me.

OOPS!! Big typo error there! Meant to type atheist there but I dropped the "a" somehow and didn't proofread as I was in a hurry to get somewhere. Bit of differance between an atheist and a theist, doncha know.:lol:

Looking over the posts above, I have noticed that some of you have a habit of stating theories as facts. Also some of the paraphrasings here are ambiguous and somewhat incorrect. I believe we had all best keep in mind that most of this field is simply theory built upon mathematical constructs or models. It is going to take some time and a great deal of moolah to prove or disprove much of it.

And if we move from the super microscopic view of particle physics to the other end of the scale, and we look at the big, big picture and start discussing black holes, universe creation, etc?? Much the same situation. A lot of theories based on mathematical projections and little proof for now. So where are we?

I say it doesn't matter. The important thing is that at least some of mankind is reaching out to try and understand our place in the grand scheme of things. It is really pretty damn inspiring to me when I think about how far we have come since the "flat earth" state of knowledge. I realize that we are fast approaching the limit of what one man can learn in a lifetime in order to apply what he knows to new possibilities. We may have to develop artificial intelligence in order to progress much more. The problem with men as thinking entities is that we have to devote much of our time and resources to just plain living day to day, and all that entails.

As far as I can see, it is all just another part of the evolution of mankind. The big question is if we will survive to continue down the road. What will favor the survival of the fittest in the years to come? Will it be religious fanaticism? Will it be tolerance and brotherly love? Will it be just a matter of chance? Your guess is as good as mine.

[Tread]

You will see, to your amazement, that Radio waves begin at 30 hertz only in the Extremely Low Frequency Range. ELF.

Wikipedia: Radio waves begin at 3Hz.

[Tread]

Sorry, have correct. Threre are radio waves under 3Hz, also wikipedia.

[sesame]

What do you have to say about transmutation of elements?
Yes, I'm talking about converting other metals to Gold!

Gold
Atomic num= 79
Group=11
Period=6
Series= Transition Metals
Crystal Struc= Cubic face centered
Latin= Aurum

I think, Hg-->Au has the greatest potential.:D

Mercury
Latin= hydrargyrum (liquid silver)
Atomic num= 80
Period, series are same as Gold.
Group=12
Crystal structure= Rhombohedral

[Tread]

Possible, already done, but highly inefficient.

It's logical possibility in physic standard model. Lead into gold, Platinum into gold and Mercury into gold have successfully be done.

From your kind question, I see that you are not unknown of transmutation of elements. So what do you want to ask really?;)

[Jenae LaTorque]

[quote=sesame;101267]What do you have to say about transmutation of elements?

************************************************** *************
http://home.att.net/~LCMArtistsmgmt/adoration_golden_calf_POUSSIN.jpg

And he took the calf which they had made, and burnt it in the fire, and ground it to powder, and strawed it upon the water, and made the children of Israel drink of it. Exodus 32-20 (King James Version) Note - calf was made of gold

So what is it with GOLD? What was the value of gold to ancient peoples? Why did the Incas gather so much gold, yet used only a small portion of it for religious purposes and some jewelry. Why did ancient miners of 5000 years ago dig hundreds of feet through solid rock to extract it? Is there anything to ORMUS?, shrew bread, the Philosopher's Stone, etc. ?????????

Why do you believe mercury is the best candidate for transmuting to gold? Is it because the ancient Chinese believed so? Did this idea migrate from the East through India and Arabia and from there to the alchemists of Euroupe? Is it just a big coincidence that mercury is associated closely with gold in alchemy texts throughout differant cultures and times, and is right next to gold in our present day periodical table of the elements??????

Getting back to the golden calf; What was the purpose of Moses burning the calf, grinding it down, chucking it upon water, and having all the people drink thereof? Normal burning of gold would simply melt it; so did Moses burn it in a special way? And how do you grind gold? Was Moses converting the gold into a monoatomic state? ORMUS?



;) ???????????????????????


Sesame, I see you have a new Avatar. Can we interpret the rays as light rays? And who was Lucifer (Satan) but "the light bringer"? And then there is the Sun - Son connection. :lol::lol:

[Tread]

Getting back to the golden calf; What was the purpose of Moses burning the calf, grinding it down, chucking it upon water, and having all the people drink thereof? Normal burning of gold would simply melt it; so did Moses burn it in a special way? And how do you grind gold? Was Moses converting the gold into a monoatomic state? ORMUS?

In water extract cyanide dissolution (I hope it is translated right), gold reacts with oxygen, and other elements, and form “metal complex” structure. And this metal complex can possibility be grinded.
I doubt that Moses knew this. But there is a possibility to let gold react with oxygen (“burn”). It would be a bad idea to drink something that contains cyanide.

Why mercury: I’m sure sesame can answer you.

To the other questions: I don’t have a clue about ancient history and their psychology.

This thread is called “Ask Jenae for real answers – no games”. I know I started unasked answering, but now you start questioning.:p

[Jenae LaTorque]

This thread is called "Ask Jenae for real answers - no games". I know I started unasked answering, but now you start questioning.:p
__________________________________________________ ____________

I was using the Socratic method to answer his query as to my views on transmutation. Some investigation into the various subjects I mentioned would open a variety of interesting avenues to approaching the subject of transmutation. Have you googled Ormus to see where that lead you?

[Tread]

I was using the Socratic method to answer his query as to my views on transmutation. Some investigation into the various subjects I mentioned would open a variety of interesting avenues to approaching the subject of transmutation. Have you googled Ormus to see where that lead you?

Oh yeah, buy the unbelievable wonder powder that heals all kind of disease, only 70$ per ounce.:lol:
Totally full of pseudo science and false explanations.
I was talking about influence nucleus and electrons of an atom.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Oh yeah, buy the unbelievable wonder powder that heals all kind of disease, only 70$ per ounce.:lol:
Totally full of pseudo science and false explanations.
I was talking about influence nucleus and electrons of an atom.
__________________________________________________ _____________

That was a very shallow hole you dug in your search Try this instead:

http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/ormus/ormus.htm

[sesame]

By Atomic structure

Compare between the atomic structures of Mercury and Gold.
Just take away one proton from Mercury's nucleus and you will get Gold!
Well, somehow you will have to get rid of 3 Neutrons also.:D

Also see the electronic orbits of Gold.
2, 8, 18, 32, 18 and 1
It's electrons are almost satiated, thats why it chemically reacts so scarcely. Just take away that extra electron and it will become completely Inert.

By Rasayana Alchemy

Rasayana is Indian alchemy, thousands of years old. The Yogis could do it in ancient times (as the legend goes). Some yogis until 100 years ago, could somehow digest Arsenic and mix it with their digestive juices (bile). Next they anointed copper in that juice and heat it for hours. When everything cooled, the copper would change to Gold!

The great Buddhist Philosopher Nagarjuna of India, invented 16 methods of gradually purifying Mercury. That involved several chemical reactions. Eventually Mercury would lose the affinity to react at all and its property would change. What is left behind, is a powder. That powder, when added to molten copper and heated for several days, yields Gold.

There is another method prevalent among the wise sages of the Himalayas (called, the Rasayaniks= chemists). They dip mercury for a whole year in a special mineral soln. The rest is the same as above. Actually these men are not in it for the Gold. Gold is a by-product to a medicinal substance that is supposed to extend Life... to many more years.;)

Western Alchemy

The western alchemists searched ardently for the Philosopher's stone. Their secrets were shrouded in the fog of myths. They gave each element a unique nickname and a symbolical expression. Even the intermediate compounds and alloys had secret identities! Below are 2 pictures depicting such symbols.

[sesame]

Jenae, thats my self portrait, you were talking about. Sun's son... well, are we not? We are each a bundle of the sun's energy. The Sun is the source of all our energy. Chemical energy, heat energy, even the food we eat has it's source in the sun.

[Tread]

That was a very shallow hole you dug in your search Try this instead:

http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/ormus/ormus.htm

I don't know what you want to tell me with the link. I have read similar articles before it. The only useable links refer to the admitted mathematical physicist Sir Roger Penrose and his controversial model of spirit and consciousness.
I thought that you as atheist (not agnostic or theist), would be more critical to such theories.
The rest are physical effects that are without evidence connected to "ORMUS".

It is highly suspicious that it exists in high amounts, is easy to find, has incredible properties, only known by ancient cultures, and nobody discovered it before 1977.

In the end it leads to the wonder powder that heals everything.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Jenae, thats my self portrait, you were talking about. Sun's son... well, are we not? We are each a bundle of the sun's energy. The Sun is the source of all our energy. Chemical energy, heat energy, even the food we eat has it's source in the sun.
__________________________________________________ ______________-

"The sun is the source of all our energy" Not so!

Consider geothermal energy. Geothermal energy's originates from the consolidation of dust and gas which formed this planet along with most of the rest of our solar system more than 4 billion years ago. Since the same process formed the sun then you could point to this consolidation as the source of all our energy. And then you could point even further back to the Big Bang if you wanted to.

Then consider nuclear energy. It's source lies in the beginnings of the universe also and is not derived from the sun. Then consider that there are also forms of magnetic and electrical energy that are not derived from the sun either. So???????

[Jenae LaTorque]

I thought that you as atheist (not agnostic or theist), would be more critical to such theories. - Tread

The fact is that I do folow the recomendation given by John Trapp
in his Commentary on the Old and New Testaments, 1647:

"This is to be taken with a grain of salt."

But on the other hand I try to be receptive to the idea that there may be a kernel of truth in old legands, myths, religions, folk remedies, etc.... I do not say "where there is smoke, there is fire." Rather I say "where there is smoke, there may be fire."

Please note that I was neither advocating that Ormus had any value or even any legitimacy; nor was I saying that it was pure baloney. I was just throwing possibilities into the wind to see what they might yield. I too have a great deal of skepticism regarding the whole Orme story and the vendors of white powder of gold (ORMUS). And yes, it seems to me that if there was anything much to it; we would be hearing more from the scientific world on the subject.

There have always been charletans who come up with all kinds of "miracle cures and treatments" involving little understood aspects of science. Witness all the treatments involving use of electricity that were so prevalent in the early part of the last century. Many of these were even endorsed by the medical establishment of the time. Of course most of these were later proved to be hogwash, but today there are approved uses of electricity in the medical field, notably for pain supression. And how many people are alive today due to electrical shocks to restart an arrested heart.

The point is that until more evidence is in I'll just say MAYBE.

"Maybe so, maybe not"

[sesame]

The sun is the source of all our energyQuite so! The earth is a piece of the Sun! We belong to the Solar family, remember? Furthermore, can you eat, breathe, drink water, get sunlight, burn patrol and firewood without the sun? NO, you cant!

Food: ultimate source= Plants ---> Photosynthesis--->Sun

Oxygen: same as above

Water: Rain and snow--->Icecap--->Rivers--->oceans--->evaporation--->sun

Patrol wood bioenergy: Plants--->Photosynthesis--->sun

[Jenae LaTorque]

Quite so! The earth is a piece of the Sun! We belong to the Solar family, remember? Furthermore, can you eat, breathe, drink water, get sunlight, burn patrol and firewood without the sun? NO, you cant!

1 Food: ultimate source= Plants ---> Photosynthesis--->Sun

2 Oxygen: same as above

3 Water: Rain and snow--->Icecap--->Rivers--->oceans--->evaporation--->sun

4 Patrol wood bioenergy: Plants--->Photosynthesis--->sun
__________________________________________________ _________________

I can see you didn't head the class in the area of science. "The Earth is a piece of the sun." The sun and the earth had a common origin, as I said above, in the consolidation process. NO! The earth did not come from the star we call the Sun. By the time the proto star had compressed enough to begin the fusion process and then be considered a star, the earth had already assumed most of it's planetary mass and orbit.

You also talk about water in relation to energy. I suppose you think water came from the sun also? No!, most of the water on Earth is believed to have come from comets.

You mention petroleum, at least I guess that is what you meant by "patrol". Yes, most of the science world believes that petroleum comes originally from plants and animals. However, there are dissenting view on this from some.

http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Energy.html

You seem to think that by stressing accepted scientific facts that you are proving something. Your whole argument fails because the earth did not come from the sun; instead, they had a common origin. Just the same as you did not come from your sisters and brothers; rather you share a common origin.

[Tread]

But on the other hand I try to be receptive to the idea that there may be a kernel of truth in old legands, myths, religions, folk remedies, etc.... I do not say "where there is smoke, there is fire." Rather I say "where there is smoke, there may be fire."

Wouldn't this make you more an agnostic, than an atheist?

[randolph]

Science is primarily dealing with quantitative aspects of reality. The ability to measure and collect data are the essence of science. The qualitative aspects of reality are not easily measured. This is the realm of philosophy, myth and religion. How do we measure a dream or a thought? They are real as far as our mind is concerned. The Indian mystics recognized this and spent a lot of time meditating on the mind's relationship to reality. Amazingly, they comprehended many aspects of reality, such as the age of the earth and the big bang thousands of years ago. Without science, how did they do this? The mind is composed of the same elements as the stars, add some energy, billions of years of evolution and viola comprehension becomes part of the universe. :cool:

[Jenae LaTorque]

Wouldn't this make you more an agnostic, than an atheist?
__________________________________________________ ________________

Def. from The American College Dictionary (applicable parts)

agnostic - one who holds that the ultimate cause (God) and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable or that human knowledge is limited to experiance.

atheist - one who denies or disbelieves the existance of God or gods.

Damn, do I have to pick one. :lol:

I am an atheist in the sense that I disbelieve the existance of God(s) as supernatural beings. Having been raised in a primarily Judeo-Christian culture and that history being the one I have studied the most; I have not the slightest belief in the existance of God, Jehovah, YAHWEH, EL-SHADDAI, etc.... As far as I am concerned, the ideas of God promoted by Jews, Muslims, and Christians is fanciful nonsense. Each of these religions would seem to have the God of the patriarch Abraham as their one true god. And yet look at the differances between them. And why would there be any differances if these faiths sprang from the same source. No, it is because these faiths are from the minds of men, and all men's minds are differant and reflect the various influences life has made upon them. Then you have, each faith splintered into so many differant branches; some with so little in common that they may as well be differant faiths. If there was such a god, then he must be a schizophrenic if one was to do a clinical assessment of the evidence of the behavior patterns attributed to him.

I am not an agnostic because I do believe that if the race of mankind survives long enough, we will expand our scope of knowledge to understand the essential nature of things. Look how many things we already understand the cause and effect for that were once things attributed to the gods. We no longer believe the sun is a chariot of fire being pulled across the sky. We know thunder and lightening have nothing to do with Thor, Jupiter or even Susanoo or Chaac. Droughts and plagues are not sent by gods to punish us. People are not possessed by demons, rather they suffer from mental illness. (I would even say they people are not possessed of the Holy Spirit, rather they are suffering a mental aberation.) It is very simple to see why biblical type miracles do not happen anymore (outside of the National Enquirer anyway). Think for a bit about how many things we take for granted as a common occurance would be heralded as a miracle a thousand years ago.

"And the lord NASA did speak to his child NEILA, who had journeyed to the moon in a silvery chariot, and commanded him to return to him, and to convey homeward the rocks he did find there"

FDR said that we have nothing to fear except fear itself. And what is so true for mankind except that we fear most what we don't understand. Ignorance is the prime cause of fear. I don't fear God because I understand. I do fear what paths ignorance and fear may lead us down. I despair of mankind when I see how easily fear-mongering leaders can motivate people to go against the basic tenets of their religious beliefs by using religion to foster hatred against others who are "differant".

Aw hell, I need a break here.

[sesame]

__________________________________________________ _________________

I can see you didn't head the class in the area of science. "The Earth is a piece of the sun." The sun and the earth had a common origin, as I said above, in the consolidation process. NO! The earth did not come from the star we call the Sun. By the time the proto star had compressed enough to begin the fusion process and then be considered a star, the earth had already assumed most of it's planetary mass and orbit.

You also talk about water in relation to energy. I suppose you think water came from the sun also? No!, most of the water on Earth is believed to have come from comets.

You mention petroleum, at least I guess that is what you meant by "patrol". Yes, most of the science world believes that petroleum comes originally from plants and animals. However, there are dissenting view on this from some.
Well sister Jenae, if a person thinks that petroleum or coal came from any other source than plants and animals, he is a moron!

I didnt say that water came from the sun, I merely referred to the H2O cycle of evaporation and rainfall. The energy behind that cycle is sunlight and heat. You must should have paid more attention in the geography and biology classes, instead of making origami, hiding in the last bench!:p

If there was no sunlight, all life on earth would perish due to starvation and cold.(may be some anaerobic bacteria and virus may go on living...) All the food we eat, has its source in the plants. No sun, no plants, no food, understand, little sister?

Where do you think all this oxygen in the air we breath came from? The plants photosynthesized and filled the atmosphere with oxygen. Before that, the air contained all the other gases, but no oxygen. Again, dear, no sun, no oxygen to breath. There was oxygen on earth, trapped in compounds, but not in the free molecular state that we inhale.

And about the origin of the earth, scientists are of many opinions. You are stressing on only one of them.
Your whole argument fails because the earth did not come from the sun; Even if the earth and sun are brothers, for arguments sake, my other points stick, they dont fail. Your Logic is horrible!

Take special classes in Geography, biology and logic; it might help you and change your life!

[sesame]

Do we, each of us possess an indestructible soul, that is born again and again in different bodies after each death?

[Jenae LaTorque]

Do we, each of us possess an indestructible soul, that is born again and again in different bodies after each death?

I would like to believe so. It would seem to be a more equitable way for one's soul to progress towards a higher state of being. It is obvious that some people have a much easier path to be a good person than others whose path is strewn with obstacles. What chance does a child who is born of a drug addict mother and an alchoholic incestuopus pedophile father to grow into a person of high morals and behavior. One hell of a lesser chance than a child who is born of and raised by 2 good parents who teach love and compassion by their examples of behavior. It makes a nice picture that each soul would be able to experiance many opportunies through many lives to progress and eventually would reach a state of Nirvana and beyond.

But do I believe so? The answer is NO!

If you want to know why, ask me.

[Jenae LaTorque]

[quote=randolph;101469], they comprehended many aspects of reality, such as the age of the earth and the big bang thousands of years ago. Without science, how did they do this?
____________________________________________

Somebody told them. I refer you to the Library of Halexandria which google will lead you to. Read their version of the history of the world. While I don't think they have all of the answer, I do think that they sound a hell of a lot more credible than the biblical history which any student of history knows is a mishmash of legend, myth, and wishful thinking.

[sesame]

But do I believe so? (reincarnation) The answer is NO!
If you want to know why, ask me. WHY?

eventually would reach a state of Nirvana and beyond. What is beyond Nirvana?

[sesame]

The Indian mystics recognized this and spent a lot of time meditating on the mind's relationship to reality. Amazingly, they comprehended many aspects of reality, such as the age of the earth and the big bang thousands of years ago. Without science, how did they do this? The mind is composed of the same elements as the stars, add some energy, billions of years of evolution and viola comprehension becomes part of the universe. :cool:Good post!:respect:

TraiLokye Yani Bhutani,
Tani Sarvani Dehatah.
~Yoga Shastras. (sanskrit)

Meaning: Whatever is contained in the Universe, is already there inside the human body. Whatever happens in the Macrocosm, can be known by knowing the Kundalini trapped inside the Microcosm. The Nine chakras resemble the external Universe.

[TracyCoxx]

Do we, each of us possess an indestructible soul, that is born again and again in different bodies after each death?
No. Time for humanity to let this fairytale go.

[randolph]

Good post!:respect:

TraiLokye Yani Bhutani,
Tani Sarvani Dehatah.
~Yoga Shastras. (sanskrit)

Meaning: Whatever is contained in the Universe, is already there inside the human body. Whatever happens in the Macrocosm, can be known by knowing the Kundalini trapped inside the Microcosm. The Nine chakras resemble the external Universe.

I don't believe in reincarnation, however, as I have mentioned before, the mind goes beyond quantitative science, it is qualitative. Discovering ones kundalini latent energy will confirm this. Transcending the ego and becoming aware of ones inner female energy is "enlightment". She is often called Uma Parvati the inner goddess, the soul. I worship her, she is the ultimate pleasure. :heart::inlove:

[sesame]

I don't believe in reincarnation, however, as I have mentioned before, the mind goes beyond quantitative science, it is qualitative.
What is the mind then, if it can transcend the physical plane?

Discovering ones kundalini latent energy will confirm this. Transcending the ego and becoming aware of ones inner female energy is "enlightment".
She is often called Uma Parvati the inner goddess, the soul. I worship her, she is the ultimate pleasure.

On one hand you admit the inner God /Goddess as the soul; and then you deny the existence of the eternal soul!

Does this Inner Goddess die? Was she ever born out of anything?
If not, you and I are talking about the same thing.
You call it Uma and I call it Soul, someone else calls it God.

The Yoga Sutras say that we are born again and again because of this desire for ephemeral things. When we realise our inner nature, which is complete and eternal, we do not thirst anymore... for we become one with the ultimate source of bliss and peace. That is called Kaivalya or Nirvana.

[randolph]

What is the mind then, if it can transcend the physical plane?


On one hand you admit the inner God /Goddess as the soul; and then you deny the existence of the eternal soul!

Does this Inner Goddess die? Was she ever born out of anything?
If not, you and I are talking about the same thing.
You call it Uma and I call it Soul, someone else calls it God.

The Yoga Sutras say that we are born again and again because of this desire for ephemeral things. When we realise our inner nature, which is complete and eternal, we do not thirst anymore... for we become one with the ultimate source of bliss and peace. That is called Kaivalya or Nirvana.

I am not Indian or Hindu so this is difficult for me to conceptualize into words. My inner female spirit/soul is unique to me as I "view" her. When I die this female energy returns to the vast field of female energy in the universe. An analogy might be the Higgs field, which I imagine as female dark energy, which science is unable to "see". Each one of us, while living, has some of that energy within us. That energy is the same in all of us. I relate to mine as Uma. Another adept may relate to it in another way, but always female.
I think the Yoga Sutras are another way of saying that when we transcend our ego, we no longer direct our desires and needs outward. I meditate for two hours every morning. During that time I love the goddess. We play with each other, she takes many forms including transsexual, she is very erotic. I feel that since she is a spirit lacking a "body" she enjoys the sensual pleasures created within my body, my body is hers. The ego strongly resists this relationship. He wants to control all of my thoughts and actions. However, Uma is a lot more fun to be with. After my meditation, my ego returns and the usual daily life returns.
As the Dali Lama once said when asked "what is the meaning of life" he answered, "pleasure". :yes:

[sesame]

Randolph,
Did you notice one thing? The Ask me oracle is not answering our queries anymore. We are answering each other. I think thats a degeneration of commitment on her part. Bad Bumblebee! :D

What you are doing in your mind during your vivid meditation is Visualisation of the Tantras. Now, Tantras dont deny the existence of the Soul, but their philosophy is based on the evolution of the Soul to power and freedom. Have you read MahaNirvana Tantra or, Tantra of the Great Liberation? There is a nice version translated by Sir John Woodroffe.

[TracyCoxx]

The mind is the group behavior of the neurons that make up the brain. If the properties of neurons and chemicals in the brain are fully accounted for along with how they interact with each other, then the mind becomes a quantitative science. Since we do not know all the all the properties of neurons or at least cannot fully grasp how they interact with each other then it only appears to go beyond quantitative science. That is only our failure to fully grasp what is going on.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C. Clarke

[randolph]

Randolph,
Did you notice one thing? The Ask me oracle is not answering our queries anymore. We are answering each other. I think thats a degeneration of commitment on her part. Bad Bumblebee! :D

What you are doing in your mind during your vivid meditation is Visualisation of the Tantras. Now, Tantras dont deny the existence of the Soul, but their philosophy is based on the evolution of the Soul to power and freedom. Have you read MahaNirvana Tantra or, Tantra of the Great Liberation? There is a nice version translated by Sir John Woodroffe.

Thanks Sesame,
You are the first person that I have been able to share these ideas with. I have many books in eastern mysticism and have been meditating for ten years. I tried go get my wife interested but she refused. There are no gurus where I live so I have taken the path alone. Thanks for the references, I will check them out. :yes:

[randolph]

The mind is the group behavior of the neurons that make up the brain. If the properties of neurons and chemicals in the brain are fully accounted for along with how they interact with each other, then the mind becomes a quantitative science. Since we do not know all the all the properties of neurons or at least cannot fully grasp how they interact with each other then it only appears to go beyond quantitative science. That is only our failure to fully grasp what is going on.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C. Clarke

We will probably eventually build a machine that can read thoughts. That could get us closer to "knowing" the mind. However, we still do not understand quantum mechanics. The mathematics work but as Fineman said "nobody understands quantum mechanics". We are no further along than we were sixty years ago. Until we can come up with a quantum theory compatible with Einstein's, the mind will always remain an enigma from a "scientific" standpoint. Until then, the goddess rules! :yes:

[TracyCoxx]

We will probably eventually build a machine that can read thoughts. That could get us closer to "knowing" the mind. However, we still do not understand quantum mechanics. The mathematics work but as Fineman said "nobody understands quantum mechanics". We are no further along than we were sixty years ago. Until we can come up with a quantum theory compatible with Einstein's, the mind will always remain an enigma from a "scientific" standpoint. Until then, the goddess rules! :yes:

Neurons don't depend on our understanding to work the way they do. The mind is quantitative regardless of our understanding of the processes. Don't make the mistake of believing in Idealism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism). And by the way, we have made a lot of advances in quantum mechanics in the last 60 years.

[spike_40]

I would like to open the field to any and all questions. I will give my honest opinion and/or knowledge on any and all topics to sincere questions. If I can I will try to diresct you to further information on the topic.

What are my qualifications? I have been around a while and nothing much shocks me anymore. I have had my IQ tested at over 150 and my friends do respect my opinion and knowledge of many subjects. I have read the Bible and while not a biblical scholar, I am more familiar with it than George Bush.
I am somewhat a scholar of offbeat subjects and somewhat of a computer nerd. I started on computers when PCs were rare and most all our work was done on a mainframe. Punchcards anyone?:yes:

Anyway, if you want an answer or just want a sounding board, give it a try.

As a old in age only Australian bloke do T/girls seek to find true love like marriage??. I have only been here a few weeks and my readings so far have not uncovered this topic.

[Jenae LaTorque]

As a old in age only Australian bloke do T/girls seek to find true love like marriage??. I have only been here a few weeks and my readings so far have not uncovered this topic.

__________________________________________________ _________________

I think they are just like everybody else. Mainly they are looking for love and acceptance. Marriage would be a possibility after that, if they live in a locale where the laws allow same sex marriages, and they wish to have the benefits of marriage. As the stigma of living togather in "sin' fades away in many cultures, there is less and less reason to get married now outside of tax benefits, insurance purposes, etc. Legitimizing offspring is of almost no concern unless it makes it easier to adopt children. I am not informed at all on that possibility.

[Rachel]

Is there a remedy for MSG poisoning ? I got very sick from that darn stuff this weekend. Had to call out sick Monday. It makes me feel like I'm hungover with the Flu.

[Cocks with beauty]

So Mr Sesame, ref. your assertion
" Matter cannot be created, nor can it be destroyed ",
and " Similarly, Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it only changes form "

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN MATTER MEETS ANTIMATTER ? ( The existence of both has been proved experimentally )

I'd be interested to see the theoretical Interaction Equations.

Oblige me please.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Is there a remedy for MSG poisoning ? I got very sick from that darn stuff this weekend. Had to call out sick Monday. It makes me feel like I'm hungover with the Flu.

First off there is no known antidote for msg poisoning that I could find that was absolutely guaranteed or recommended by authorities in this area. Possible antidotes include vitimins B-3, B-6, taurine (like in Red Bull), aspirin or ibuprofin, and ingestion of L-Glutamine which you can find supplements of in the vitimin/supplement section at the store.

A chinese guy that runs a resturant (famous users of MSG) says that a teaspoonful of salt dissolved in some Coca Cola will do the trick.

I do have a question concerning this. How do you know that it was MSG poisoning? You related flu-like symptoms. Perhaps it was a strain of flu or some other bug. I have had the topics of MSG and aspartame poisoning brought to my attention at various times due to the fact that I am a Diet Mt. Dewolic. I have not experianced any problems from these products that I have noticed. Maybe I am just not sensitive to either one.

[Jenae LaTorque]

[quote=Cocks with beauty;101998]
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN MATTER MEETS ANTIMATTER ?
__________________________________________________ _______________

.
E = mc²

The reaction of 1 kg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram) of antimatter with 1 kg of matter would produce 1.8×1017 J (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule) (180 petajoules) of energy (by the mass-energy equivalence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass-energy_equivalence) formula E = mc²), or the rough equivalent of 47 megatons of TNT.

The above is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter

[Tread]

Are the SI Units (like kg and J) so unknown in the USA, that you have to link them?
Why USA, Burma and Liberia don't accept le Système international d'unités, like everyone else?

[randolph]

First off there is no known antidote for msg poisoning that I could find that was absolutely guaranteed or recommended by authorities in this area. Possible antidotes include vitimins B-3, B-6, taurine (like in Red Bull), aspirin or ibuprofin, and ingestion of L-Glutamine which you can find supplements of in the vitimin/supplement section at the store.

A chinese guy that runs a resturant (famous users of MSG) says that a teaspoonful of salt dissolved in some Coca Cola will do the trick.

I do have a question concerning this. How do you know that it was MSG poisoning? You related flu-like symptoms. Perhaps it was a strain of flu or some other bug. I have had the topics of MSG and aspartame poisoning brought to my attention at various times due to the fact that I am a Diet Mt. Dewolic. I have not experianced any problems from these products that I have noticed. Maybe I am just not sensitive to either one.

MSG (monosodium glutamate) is a salt like substance. My experience was at a Tai restaurant, apparently the food was loaded with MSG and I got heart palpitations and an asthma attack. It's bad stuff in large doses. :frown:

[randolph]

Are the SI Units (like kg and J) so unknown in the USA, that you have to link them?
Why USA, Burma and Liberia don't accept le Système international d'unités, like everyone else?

Gasp, do you think as true Americans we are going to accept socialist commie pinko things like the metric system? ;):lol:

[Tread]

OK I'm pulling back the question, I fit is necessary to post Links.:p
It has nothing to do with them. They are only able to use the right system.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Are the SI Units (like kg and J) so unknown in the USA, that you have to link them?
Why USA, Burma and Liberia don't accept le Système international d'unités, like everyone else?
************************************************** ******

Although I got a chuckle out of Randolph's reply; the answer is; No, they are not so unknown. As I stated below that, it was from a Wilkipedia page. When I copied and pasted; it brought the hyperlinks along with it.

I don't know exactly why the USA never completly switched over to the metric system. I remember that they said we would over 40 years ago when I was in school, but it hasn't happened yet. Right now we have a mixed up system. Think how lucky folks are in other countries. I have to have two sets of mechanics tools just to work on my vehicles.

The progress towards metric usage in the USA is happening; it is just rather slow. Just another example of the "will of the people" in action.
People have a natural resistance to change. Most likely that is an inborn survival trait. They resist change unless there is a clear-cut advantage to it. So far, this country has been able to get by without changing for the most part. Other countries had to change to compete economically. In areas like the sciences; the USA change was instituted long ago. Most of the Federal government has changed to the metric system.

One area that has changed is that alcohol (booze) is sold by the metric system. It is now sold in metric containers with a 750 ml bottle replacing the former "fifths" which were about 757 ml. Beer however is still measured by the old standard ounces like soda pop. Both usually display the metric volume in parenthesis also.

[Jenae LaTorque]

MSG (monosodium glutamate) is a salt like substance. My experience was at a Tai restaurant, apparently the food was loaded with MSG and I got heart palpitations and an asthma attack. It's bad stuff in large doses. :frown:
88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 888888888888888

Sounds like you may be sensitive to the nasty stuff. Maybe you should try the salt-Coke recipe or have a Red Bull with your next Thai. But then I have heard warnings about Red Bull also:lol: Maybe it is just best to practice the old adage about "all things in moderation."

[Mel Asher]

So Mr Sesame, ref. your assertion
" Matter cannot be created, nor can it be destroyed ",
and " Similarly, Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it only changes form "

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN MATTER MEETS ANTIMATTER ? ( The existence of both has been proved experimentally )

I'd be interested to see the theoretical Interaction Equations.

Oblige me please.

I don't want people to think I am replying for Sesame, or that I am trying to take anything away from Jenae's authorship of this Thread, but it looks as though you have assumed that nothing is left when Antimatter hits Matter.
This is not so. Almost invariably intense Gamma Radiation is created with a very short duration, which is why I would imagine Jenae quoted E=mc2. In fact the velocity of stellar Gamma Ray emissions is far less than the speed of light, which is why it takes a hell of a long time to reach instruments here on Earth, and sometimes never reaches us at all if it is not aligned with our galaxy. Only a small proportion of Gamma Radiation received from space can be accounted for in this way, and Matter-Antimatter interactions in Space are one of the Holy Grails sought by many Astrophysicists.

And yes, the product of Matter-Antimatter interaction is pure energy ( mostly Gamma Rays )

What irritates some Astronomers is the observable fact that some stars apparently self-destruct without any apparent residual radiation ! Spooky stuff eh ?

[Jenae LaTorque]

[

What irritates some Astronomers is the observable fact that some stars apparently self-destruct without any apparent residual radiation ! Spooky stuff eh ?[/quote]
************************************************** *******
Not sure what you mean by "spooky", and really am puzzled by the Astronomers being irritated by it. I for one can accept that we are limited in our observations by what our senses and instruments can detect. No need to get mad, get even! Build a new theory, based on the data you have, to account for it, and figure out a way to test the theory. Do again and again as necessary until you get it right. Only thus will you achieve harmony and enjoy peace and tranquility.:lol:

[randolph]

[quote=Cocks with beauty;101998]
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN MATTER MEETS ANTIMATTER ?


__________________________________________________ _______________

.
E = mc²

The reaction of 1 kg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram) of antimatter with 1 kg of matter would produce 1.8×1017 J (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule) (180 petajoules) of energy (by the mass-energy equivalence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass-energy_equivalence) formula E = mc²), or the rough equivalent of 47 megatons of TNT.

The above is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter

Hey Jenae,
What would happen if I tried to peta your joules? :lol:

[Rachel]

After many years of sometimes getting this weird sickness and wondering what it was it was suggested to me to check content labeling. I had purchased a store brand of bread crumbs that I knew didnt have msg. I purchased more in a different flavor ( plain and Italian style) Got sick looked at labels again still none in the plain however the Italian style had it! I've also gotten sick from frozen pizzas that didnt have msg listed in contents but I knew the symptoms so it was in there somewhere.

[sesame]

25 years ago, four of us went to dinner at Dr. Hoagley Woagley's Texas Barbecue in California. We all ordered different meals in order to test them. I ordered roast beef, and everyone raved about how tender it was. Within an hour, I became deathly ill. I felt as though my heart was totally dry and very painful.

We rushed home and I drank my old-fashioned remedy against food poisoning -- apple cider vinegar, honey, and water -- and I slowly returned to normal. My roast beef must have been loaded with MSG, but I thankfully, I was aware.Homemade cure for food poisoning. I was deadly ill last night. I drank huge quantities of water and vomited 4 times. My fever receded instantly and I felt better. After that I prepared a solution with glucose and salts and kept drinking it to prevent dehydration.

[sesame]

Gasp, do you think as true Americans we are going to accept socialist commie pinko things like the metric system? ;):lol:
The metric system is much more scientific than the ounce pound foot mile hodge podge.

The metric system progresses in Tens. Its clean and uncomplicated.
mili centi deci meter deca hecto Kilo
Perfection!

Old English system: Jumps in threes and twelves... usually;)

1 digit=3/4 inch
1 Nail=3 digits = 2+1⁄4 inches = 1⁄16 yard
1 palm=3 inches
1 foot=13 inches... 12 inches from 1066AD onwards!
1 cubit=From fingertips to elbow, 18 inches.
1yard=36 inches
1 fathom= left fingertip to right fingertip with arms outstretched= 6 feet (not always!! :lol:)
1 rod=16 1/2 feet, used to be 20 feet earlier.
1 furlong= 660 feet=40 rods
(One plough's furrow long; in Saxon, furrow =furh)
1 mile=1760 yards= 5280 feet=8 furlongs... after 1066ad, became 5000 feet.

You see, its like some private measuring system going haywire! Those ancient barters and farmers didnt care about science or measurement standards. They managed with whatever they had, palms, hands, feet, ploughs even!

Do you think NASA uses this mad system in it's space programs? No. They use the metric system for scientific endeavours.

[sesame]

So Mr Sesame, ref. your assertion
" Matter cannot be created, nor can it be destroyed ",
and " Similarly, Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it only changes form "

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN MATTER MEETS ANTIMATTER ? ( The existence of both has been proved experimentally )

I'd be interested to see the theoretical Interaction Equations.

Oblige me please.The sumtotal of all matter and energy in the universe is a constant. When matter and animatter collide, the result is not NOTHING, but the release of huge amounts of energy in the form of Gamma Photons. Each gamma photon carries 511 Kilo electronVolts of energy. If you apply E=mc^2, you will see that the matter-energy equation still holds true.

Antimatter~ example
When a very fast proton collides with a Hydrogen neucleus consisting of 1proton only, the proton and it's kinetic energy is converted to a neutron, an antiproton and a meson. The total electrical and the baryon charges are conserved in this materialization.

But the question is, if there is matter(mostly) and antimatter in this Universe, why doesnt it self-destruct?

[Tread]

Do you think NASA uses this mad system in it's space programs? No. They use the metric system for scientific endeavours.

What was it then with the Mars Climate Orbiter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter) 98? Ok, it was a NASA subcontractor from Lockheed Martin.

[Jenae LaTorque]

What was it then with the Mars Climate Orbiter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter) 98? Ok, it was a NASA subcontractor from Lockheed Martin.
************************************************** **
It went boom! But at least they learned a valuable lesson there. NASA has had quite a few "expensive" lessons; both in wasted time and money, and in human life.

"It's a very sobering feeling to be up in space and realize that one's safety factor was determined by the lowest bidder on a government contract." Alan Shepherd

[sesame]

All of us work out to develop and tone up our muscles. But purportedly, there is a way to tone up the brain and understand it's working even better. Its called EEG...

Electro-EncephaloGraph. Its also known as the Neurofeedback or Biofeedback machine. It moniters the brain waves (like alpha, beta, theta, delta) and lets us know using a sonic or visual signal... we in turn focus our minds and try to generate the waves of the highest order. In so doing we learn to control the brain and be more relaxed, conscious and creative. Ofcourse its available in the hospitals, but I'm talking about the smaller ones for household use. Is it effective as a neuro-development device? How much does it cost?

[TracyCoxx]

Do you think NASA uses this mad system in it's space programs? No. They use the metric system for scientific endeavours.
Nasa software uses metric... especially after the units mix-up with the mars orbiter. But Nasa hardware often uses english because their tools and machines are still in english. It would be a huge expense to retool their shops.

What was it then with the Mars Climate Orbiter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter) 98? Ok, it was a NASA subcontractor from Lockheed Martin.It went boom! But at least they learned a valuable lesson there. NASA has had quite a few "expensive" lessons; both in wasted time and money, and in human life.
It didn't go boom, it just didn't didn't enter mars orbit and kept on going because of mistakes with english vs metric units.

I'm going to get on my Nasa soapbox now. Yes, Nasa learned a lesson from that, and from the shuttle accidents. But the real lesson to be learned was with congress, and it certainly fell on deaf ears. I've heard a lot of complaints against Nasa. The shuttle is too expensive. They have too many accidents. They don't have their eye on the real mission - sending people to mars. Well the problem all along has been with congress and presidents. Nasa knows how to reduce costs in the shuttle. They can reduce accidents, and they would love nothing more than to send humans to mars. The problem is lack of funding. Congress and the American people would like nasa to do all these things, but Congress & presidents won't pay for it.

The shuttle has high operating costs because they were short changed during the development of the shuttle. So they skimped on design and shifted the costs to operational costs. The shuttle had to prove to be cost effective so they had to have a high flight rate and launch satellites that could have been launched by unmanned rockets. So they didn't listen to engineers that said it was too cold to launch Challenger.

They also skimped on testing because there were no funds for testing. Testing that would have shown the real dangers of falling debris which led to the Columbia accident.

So did congress & Bush learn from past mistakes? No. Bush proposed a new program called Vision for Space Exploration. The program is fantastic, and exactly what our country's space program needs to make huge advances. All the rockets required are being developed under a program called Constellation. The aim is not the moon, not mars, but for Nasa to learn how humans can travel, live and work throughout the solar system to exploit literally new worlds of resources. Bush can't even provide full funding for his own plan. Again Nasa is having to skimp on design which will translate into higher operational costs, and possibly lives of future astronauts. Democrats in congress criticized him on underfunding Nasa throughout his terms. So what do the democrats do now that they are in charge? Rather than correcting Bush's mistake of underfunding Nasa they throw together the Augustine Commission with the initial goal of declaring Ares I (the launcher for the new capsule) as too expensive. It is clear that congress will NEVER learn the consequences of underfunding space programs. This is rocket science... it's going to take some dollars. To fully fund the Constellation program would take another $3 billion per year. Congress belched out $2 billion for the cash for clunkers program like it was chump change, and Obama just spend about $2 trillion on BS programs. Don't get cheap now. Nasa's budget is just .5% of the nations budget. And on top of Nasa's budget, lawmakers tacked on an extra $750 million in pork barrel spending for their districts - for things like a dinosaur museum and other non-Nasa business.

Look at this:
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/ares/flighttests/aresIx/aresIX_ss_aug09_1.html

This is the Ares 1-X launcher that's assembled and ready to go within a couple of months. It's the first test Ares launcher and it could very well get canceled before it can even launch. :censored:

[Jenae LaTorque]

All of us work out to develop and tone up our muscles. But purportedly, there is a way to tone up the brain and understand it's working even better. Its called EEG...

I'm talking about the smaller ones for household use. Is it effective as a neuro-development device? How much does it cost?
************************************************** **********

Is it effective?

Yes, to a small extent. Let me draw an analagy here. Suppose you had a thousand piece orchestra which you place in a large building. Then you place a rockband in there with them. Then you add the Morman Tabernacle Choir, a country western band, some soloist instrumentalists, a few solo singers, and a German polka band. And they all begin to play and sing. You, on the outside, are monitoring the data you are getting from your fifty contact microphones which you have applied to 3 of the 4 outside walls of the building. Now, you wish to affect what your michrophones are reading. You can not hear what it sounds like inside the building; all you know is what your data reports. The only ways you have to affect the inside enviroment is by raising or lowering the temperature inside, changing the rate at which fresh air is pumped into the building, dimming or raising the lights, and shouting instructions to the musicians via a loudspeaker. However, the only language you speak is Pashtan, which none of them understand. Can you affect the data that your instruments are picking up? Oh yes! You notice that when you flash the lights off and on; there is a change. When you scream via the loudspeaker, you see that the data change. When you turn off the air exchange, the data gradually tends toward a flatline as more and more members inside fall unconscious, and then begins to peak more after you restore the air and people revive. And so on. Then if you really want to change your data, you introduce some hallucinogenic drug into the air system, or give them only whiskey to drink.

The point here is that the brain is a wonderously complex computer and we are trying to decipher it's workings and affect them from a relatively small number of data pickups which are located outside the walls of it's container.
This area of human exploration is still in it's infancy and it is debatable what much of the data signifies.

Cost. You can buy bio-feedback devices for under $100 for very simple ones, or more complex ones that cost multi-thousands. An EEG machine that is up to scientific standards falls into the tens of thousands of dollars range and requires a great deal of expertise to interpret the data. The cheaper machines that you might buy for home use will have limited data pick up and readout, depending on what you pay for. Yes they do work in the sense that with practice you can affect what the data is reading. However, there are many false claims and misrepresentations out there by quacks and frauds. If you really want to try this, I suggest you start small and go from there. Get a small bio-feedback device and find out if it works for you.

[Jenae LaTorque]

The Mars Climate Orbiter was intended to enter orbit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbit) at an altitude of 140-150 km (460,000-500,000 ft.) above Mars. However, a navigation error caused the spacecraft to reach as low as 57 km (190,000 ft.). The spacecraft was destroyed by atmospheric stresses and friction at this low altitude. The navigation error arose because a NASA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA) subcontractor (Lockheed Martin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin)) used Imperial units (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_unit) (pound (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound-force)-seconds) instead of the metric system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system).

went boom = destroyed

Amen to the rest of your statement!

[sesame]

Thank you Jenae, for the neurofeedback thing. Amen to the rest of your statement!This point blank answer is really funny, so thanks again for using your sense of humour.:D


To Tracycoxx:

I have heard *some* people say that NASA is filled with Agenda-Pushing Bureaucrats! If that is true, then you cant blame the Congress for all the episodes that ended with a misfire! NASA itself needs an ablution.:p

[sesame]

Jenae, your answer was a Loooong one, but with little essence! No games, remember? Thats your promise. The facts about the cost and which brand to buy is not known to me. You can help me there if you want to. You have only mentioned a 100$ :( and nothing else!

Scientific Facts

We can know a lot about the brain with an eeg-neurofeedback device. And we can really control it. You know, Jenae, whats wrong with your analogy? You said we have access only to the external, when actually we have access to the most internal phenomenon of the brain.

Its the Mind!

So, we can monitor the waves with an eeg and the inside of the brain with the mind itself. And we can discover what clicks the generation of a particular brainwave. Thats why they call it feedback. Whatever thought or, emotion or, meditative mood causes a wave, we can feed more of it to the brain with the mind!

Waves:

alpha wave = usually occurs in dreaming. In wakeful state it denotes relaxed mood and contentment. It increases the efficiency of that individual.

Beta wave = nervous tension and anxiety, unhappiness.

Theta wave = usually happens in sleeping state. It may occur in waking state in short bursts... only to denote creative impulses and problem solving insights.

Delta wave = Complete relaxation. It occurs only in Deep Sleep state, where REM stops.

If you can control your brainwaves, you can be like ... ...
Albert Einstein or, Leonardo da Vinci. :D Yay!

[TracyCoxx]

The Mars Climate Orbiter was intended to enter orbit at an altitude of 140-150 km (460,000-500,000 ft.) above Mars. However, a navigation error caused the spacecraft to reach as low as 57 km (190,000 ft.). The spacecraft was destroyed by atmospheric stresses and friction at this low altitudeAh yes. I was thinking of the Mars Observer. But then come to think of it, that one probably blew up too.

[TracyCoxx]

I have heard *some* people say that NASA is filled with Agenda-Pushing Bureaucrats! If that is true, then you cant blame the Congress for all the episodes that ended with a misfire! NASA itself needs an ablution.:p

What agenda are you talking about? If it's the agenda of getting to the moon or mars, then yes, Nasa has them.

p.s., why do SO MANY emails in this thread look like RANSOM NOTES?!

[sesame]

I am an atheist in the sense that I disbelieve the existance of God(s) as supernatural beings"If we cannot prove something's existence, it must be non-existent." OR, "If I cannot detect something, it must be a lie."

These statements are illogical and utterly Unscientific. There are scores of things that we know nothing about. But our ignorance cannot hinder their existence. Take for example, the Radio waves. Nobody knew about radio waves before Heinrich Rudolf Hertz discovered them in 1888 AD; Yet they have existed in full glory since the beginning of this Universe!

We cannot prove the existence of God or, Soul with our scientific instruments. But that doesnt disprove the existence of such an entity.

Yes, anyone can believe in anything... but that doesnt make it real or unreal. The Truth remains as it is.

[sesame]

why do SO MANY emails in this thread look like RANSOM NOTES?!Emails?? In this forum? I dont see any emails here! Do you mean posts?:confused:

[sesame]

Ransom notes? ( letting out a big sigh :rolleyes: )

To Jenae La Torque:
OK, Jenae, you are not obliged to answer everything I ask. Its just that I Love this thread, you had started and nourished so far. Its one of the most information-rich threads in the whole forum! You seem to be someone with a sizable IQ. Thats why I like bombarding you with challenges. Its not malicious, just an intellectual joust.:respect::respect:

P.S. To Tracycoxx:
My joust with Jenae is a matter of mutual consideration. Does it bother you?

[sesame]

The International Astronomical Union declared Pluto as the Nineth Planet of our solar system in 1930. Why has it suddenly been kicked out of the list?

[TracyCoxx]

"If we cannot prove something's existence, it must be non-existent." OR, "If I cannot detect something, it must be a lie."

These statements are illogical and utterly Unscientific. There are scores of things that we know nothing about. But our ignorance cannot hinder their existence.

I'm not speaking for Jenae but as an atheist myself. Yes, it's unscientific to say conclusively that there's no god. But although I hold science in high regard, we still must make judgement calls, because the existence of god is not going to be scientifically resolved in our lifetime, if ever. But each of us must make up our minds. I can scientifically explain much of what many religious people would attribute to god, except for the big bang. I can't explain how the universe came from nothing. But saying god did it doesn't explain the even more bizarre concept of a god coming from nothing. For me, there is absolutely no reason to think there is a god, except for ancient myths. But scientifically, I cannot rule it out. But then, scientifically, there's no reason to think there is a god. So for myself, I decide based on the preponderance of evidence that the universe behaves according to physical laws, and that there is no good scientific evidence of the supernatural, that I do not believe in a god. So color me atheist.

[TracyCoxx]

My joust with Jenae is a matter of mutual consideration. Does it bother you?
Of course NOT. Actually I agree. Jenae has done well with this thread.

[sesame]

I'm not speaking for Jenae but as an atheist myself. Yes, it's unscientific to say conclusively that there's no god. But although I hold science in high regard, we still must make judgement calls, because the existence of god is not going to be scientifically resolved in our lifetime, if ever. But each of us must make up our minds.Our decisions only affect ourselves, as I said before, the Truth remains the same no matter what we believe in.


I can scientifically explain much of what many religious people would attribute to god, except for the big bang. I can't explain how the universe came from nothing.You could attribute to God, apart from the first bang, called as Nada or primal sound in Yoga, the creation of life! Science with all it's paraphernalia cannot create it yet! Not even a single cell!
Or could you explain by science how the oxygen cycle, water cycle, all the inter-dependence of living beings become so well planned? I guess the atheists would rather give the credit to a Lucky Accident! (Like the way they try to mumbo-jumbo the origin of life :lol: . Science believing in Luck!) Imagine, every reaction, every fusion, all the cycles of the Universe taking place due to a series of Lucky Accidents! This must be the idea of a mad Pocker Player!


I find every aspect of Nature to be a miracle. Men are so proud that they have created energy! Look at the ocean, look at all the sunlight in a single day, billions of Kilo Joules of power! We create electricity, ...Look at a single thunderstorm; it unleashes more electricity a whole Nation can produce in a Year! We created nuclear power... the sun runs with Nuclear fission. We can invent things, because it is already there in Nature! Michael Faraday created the first ever electric motor... he discovered electromagnetic induction. Did you know that he worshipped Nature as God?

But saying god did it doesn't explain the even more bizarre concept of a god coming from nothing.
Why is this NOTHING so favourite to you?
Why does it have to be the beginning of everything? To the Theists, God is the origin and end of everything. Whatever you call It, God, consciousness, soul... or some even paint a name and personality on It... like Elahi, God, Krishna, Jesus, because people cannot relate to It otherwise.:p The real thing is that Ultimate Truth or Consciousness! It is. It has always been there. The universes bloom and collapse upon the substratum of Truth.

For me, there is absolutely no reason to think there is a god, except for ancient myths. But scientifically, I cannot rule it out. But then, scientifically, there's no reason to think there is a god.
You may dislike Religions. But they are just institutions either ushering people to that Truth or trying to take advantage of the believers. But God (I hope you are not allergic to that term; its more convenient than X, Y, or It) is beyond such group activities. "Believe in our dogma, or you will go to hell." If I can find this statement foolish, I'm sure God feels more so! Seriously I believe God as the Fountainhead of Consciousness, of existence. Nobody can deny his own Consciousness!

[Jenae LaTorque]

I'm not speaking for Jenae but as an atheist myself. ....../////////..... So color me atheist.

Tracy, As you may, or may not have noticed, I am reluctant to accept the label "atheist" as I indicated in post #165. I prefer to align myself with Sam Harris in that regard. If you are not familiar with Sam Harris; please take time to watch some of his talks on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=630y_aBIuc0 is a good one to start with.

He makes the point very well that since we do not have a label for those that don't believe in astrology, Elvis is still alive, or the Earth is flat; then why should we be labeled. We aren't the ones that are making claims on silly, unsubstantiated notions. It is the theists who should be the ones to bear a label, not us. We are the ones who are being rational.

Please watch Sam and join with the rest of us who don't believe we should be labeled so.

[Jenae LaTorque]

[quote=sesame;102666]Our decisions only affect ourselves, as I said before, the Truth remains the same no matter what we believe in.
************************************************** *******

The Truth! ????

Sesame, you are the one who is blinding himself to the truth.

I have to wonder if you really understand the basic concepts of evolution since you refer to evolutionary steps as "accidents". From the context of your statements, I think that you don't understand that the definition of accident as used by scientists means " by chance ". To illustrate this point:

1. If you drop a coin from a hand's breath above a flat level surface, most of the times it will end up resting flat on the table. Once in a while though - it will by chance end up standing on it's rim. I know this because I have seen it several times in my life. Improbable things do happen. If you don't believe so, then read any of Charles Fort's books or at least Google him on the internet and read up on the amazing things that happen by chance. LOL You referred to mad ( crazy or pissed off? ) Pocker ( Poker ?) players. I have played enough poker in my life to experiance losing a hand while holding 4 aces. And, No!, I wasn't mad....just amazed.

2. If you are with me so far, then I would like to expound on the "accident of life" in terms of chance. How many atoms in the sea? Gazillions right? How many seconds in the time span that scientists believe life formed in. Gazillions right? So we have gazillions of atoms and gazillions of seconds for one event to occur - the first step in evolution by chance. It is very probable that this first step happened many, many times. Some of those progressed no further, but some made a second step....and a third ....and a fourth....and a fifth and so on. All of the changes occur by chance. Those "accidents" that contribute to the survival of the species in some way are then sometimes passed on to offspring. All of the rest of evolutionary theory follows from this. Now it seems to me that you have only a very rudimentry and somewhat fragmented knowledge of science in this area. There has been a lot of effort by theists of one type or another to bring science down in this area. So far they have failed. The best any of them can do is point out that we don't know yet how some things work, which is a far cry from disproving the legitimate claims of science. To say that we are unable to produce a single living cell yet doesn't mean that there is a god somewhere that can. The only way they could prove such a thing to my satisfaction would be to produce through their prayers, meditation, sacrifices, or whatever mumbo jumbo, a living cell. Come on, it's time for a good old fashioned miracle here. LOL We seem to be in short supply of them lately.

3. "I find every aspect of Nature to be a miracle." - Sesame

I am sure that by miracle you mean the definition as "wondrous, amazing, or remarkable" and not as "something which apparently contradicts known scientific laws". If you mean wonderous, I agree, Nature is amazing! It is amazing what Nature does for us- it is amazing that a volcano can erupt and wipe out villiages below, it is amazing that the ocean can produce tsunami waves that can wipe out thousands of people and destroy what man has built along the shoreline, it is amazing that earthquakes can destroy and kill so much. Now these would not be referred to as miracles by most people in history; rather as "wrath of god" events. Not to be nitpicky, but the sun is an example of Nuclear fusion not fission.

4. "We can invent things, because it is is already there in Nature!" - Sesame
You had best explain this apparently silly statement. While you are at, it please find me an example of an electric motor in nature.

5. As to Michael Faraday believing in Nature as god. Are you saying that he believed in Nature as a supernatural being or entity who created the world and manages it? What do you mean by saying he worshipped it?

That is enough for now, I have things to do now.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Jenae, your answer was a Loooong one, but with little essence! No games, remember? Thats your promise. The facts about the cost and which brand to buy is not known to me. You can help me there if you want to. You have only mentioned a 100$ :( and nothing else!

Scientific Facts

We can know a lot about the brain with an eeg-neurofeedback device. And we can really control it. You know, Jenae, whats wrong with your analogy? You said we have access only to the external, when actually we have access to the most internal phenomenon of the brain.

You didn't grasp the concept I see. All of those wave types that you went to great pains to list are only general divisions of wave forms that are typical of various mind states. Very, very general divisions. We can't point to a wave form and say, "Sesame is thinking of a long legged brunette Tgirl with d-cup breasts." No; we can't even tell if you are looking at a blue screen or a red one. No, it's even worse than my analogy. At least there by selecting one microphone we may be able to tell you that the polka band just the other side in playing "Roll out the Barrel".


And yes they are still external. The pickup sensors are on the outside of the brain. Do you think they are measuring the electrical activity at the core of the brain? Just like the microphones on the outside wall of the analogy will not pickup a solo singer in the middle of the building.

The whole point here is that I don't believe it is worthwhile to invest anything in a EEG device, at this stage of its development and application, for anyone outside of scientific inquiry. That is why I suggested you start small. As to finding out what is available, did you check for yourself by using Google? I just took a quick look and there are all kinds of EEG and other bio feedback devices on the net. I myself will not reccomend any of them. Just as I wouldn't recommend you buy a pocket knife if your intention was to clear a forest.

And, if you have "access to the most internal phenomenon of the brain", then I am sure many scientists would love for you to join them and demonstrate your mastery of this. They would even let you use their EEG machines for free.

[sesame]

And yes they are still external. The pickup sensors are on the outside of the brain............Oh Jenae, dear sister, I can see that you couldn't grasp the concept! Ofcourse the EEG is an external device and its monitoring the brainwaves from the surface of the brain. So, yes they ARE external. Yet we have the inborn facility to access the most internal phenomenon of the brain. I will explain that later.

I wouldn't recommend you buy a pocket knife if your intention was to clear a forest. :lol: You can make me laugh, even when we are fighting. Witty!

And, if you have "access to the most internal phenomenon of the brain", then I am sure many scientists would love for you to join them and demonstrate your mastery of this. They would even let you use their EEG machines for free.
Jenae, we as human beings are capable of thinking, analyzing and meditating on account of having complex minds! This Mind is the facility I'm talking about. This almost ever-active Mind is the most important phenomenon taking place in the brain. Alas, the scientists have it too. So the chance you told me about is gone!

But all intellectual fights aside, its truely amazing to think that we can achieve very high levels of brain mastery! Imagine if you could instantly go to a relaxed state at will, or, gain very deep insights, or, be highly creative whenever you wanted! Then you could be a genius!

There was a scientific investigation carried out in the Tokyo University using EEG under a strictly monitored environment. 48 Zen Buddhist monks aged between 24 to 72 were selected. The same number of volunteers were taken, who had no experience in mind training. They were all supposed to meditate for 30 minutes, sitting crosslegged, with eyes open and focus on a spot on the floor 3 feet ahead.

The untrained group exhibitted the anxious beta waves throughout the whole time. But the Zen monks surprised everyone. They slipped into very relaxed alpha waves in the first 10 minutes, then they went into the Theta state denoting amazing creativity and insight. This inner peace, achievable only in sleeping state was demonstrated by them with eyes wide open!

[TracyCoxx]

You could attribute to God, apart from the first bang, called as Nada or primal sound in Yoga, the creation of life! Science with all it's paraphernalia cannot create it yet! Not even a single cell!

There was something I read yesterday...
"If we cannot prove something's existence, it must be non-existent." OR, "If I cannot detect something, it must be a lie."

These statements are illogical and utterly Unscientific. There are scores of things that we know nothing about. But our ignorance cannot hinder their existence.
I think it applies here. We may not have deduced the path from individual hydrogen, carbon, oxygen, etc... atoms to amino acids to RNA to cells, but that does not mean that isn't how it happened. We have data points in chemistry, astrobiology and biology that start to paint the picture on how life evolved from inanimate matter. Here's an article that shows one piece of the puzzle:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16382-artificial-molecule-evolves-in-the-lab.html


Or could you explain by science how the oxygen cycle, water cycle, all the inter-dependence of living beings become so well planned?

The Earth's atmosphere wasn't always like this. It originally consisted of hydrogen & helium. These light gasses easily escaped the Earth when heated by the sun. Then the atmosphere was primarily water vapor, CO2, methane and ammonia. 3.8 billion years ago, life started, and began to alter the atmosphere. The CO2 and water vapor content decreased while nitrogen rose. Life forms breathed primarily CO2. If they could think they would thank the gods for creating such a perfect CO2 atmosphere for them.

Beginning at 2.5 billion years ago, the atmosphere began to change again as early life forms exhaled oxygen into the atmosphere. As more and more oxygen entered the atmosphere some species evolved to breath oxygen.

Of course, if conditions were not right for life here, there would be no life to marvel at how perfect conditions are for life. Isn't this obvious? Life would sprout elsewhere where conditions happen to be favorable.

I guess the atheists would rather give the credit to a Lucky Accident! (Like the way they try to mumbo-jumbo the origin of life :lol:. Science believing in Luck!) Imagine, every reaction, every fusion, all the cycles of the Universe taking place due to a series of Lucky Accidents! This must be the idea of a mad Pocker Player!
Straw man argument. You mischaracterize atheists' views and then point out how silly they are. It's not just luck that conditions are right for life here on Earth. Is it just luck that we have a beautiful sunny day here? No, it happened because of a high pressure zone that moved over where I live. The high pressure zone is from the movement of temperature zones caused by solar heating and the Earth's rotation, etc. Actually, the mineral content of our earth and the solar system in general are due the prior contents of the gas & dust cloud that existed here before the formation of the solar system, and also to a local super nova that spread heavier elements, including radioactive aluminum, which decays into magnesium (a common element among the rocky planets). Other evidence of the super nova include diamond dust found in meteorites dating more than 5 billion years old.


I find every aspect of Nature to be a miracle.
It is amazing, but it's all ultimately explainable.

Michael Faraday created the first ever electric motor... he discovered electromagnetic induction. Did you know that he worshipped Nature as God?If you want to worship nature, fine. But it doesn't make sense to worship something that is by definition natural as something supernatural.


Why is this NOTHING so favourite to you? Why does it have to be the beginning of everything?
Good question. Nothing, as I see it, is the complete absence of matter and energy. Most of our physical laws are based on the geometry of space-time. Why does our spacetime have 3 spatial dimensions, and one dimension of time? It is very likely has more dimensions as string theories suggest. But whatever the configuration, why that configuration? So nothing would include the absence of spacetime and all other dimensions as well. In fact, any attribute you might use to describe 'nothing' would not be applicable because that would be something.

Why is this state a favorable beginning? Because anything other than nothing would beg the question: How did that come to be?

I believe God as the Fountainhead of Consciousness, of existence. Nobody can deny his own Consciousness!I can without effort.

[TracyCoxx]

He makes the point very well that since we do not have a label for those that don't believe in astrology, Elvis is still alive, or the Earth is flat; then why should we be labeled. We aren't the ones that are making claims on silly, unsubstantiated notions. It is the theists who should be the ones to bear a label, not us. We are the ones who are being rational.

Please watch Sam and join with the rest of us who don't believe we should be labeled so.Makes sense to me...

[sesame]

life evolved from inanimate matter.Prove it first by creating life. How about "Life came from Life force itself"?

early life forms exhaled oxygen into the atmosphere.Exhale oxygen!!! Its like that "emails in this thread" thing all over again! Did you mean emit by photosynthesis?

Nothing, as I see it, is the complete absence of matter and energyI didnt say the Ultimate Consciousness is devoid of energy! It is the source of all energy. With E=mc^2 and matter-antimatter collisions, you can see that there is a state when all matter fuses into Energy. But here you and I differ. You prefer stupid energy and I conscious energy.

You take nature for granted, as if you know it all! I think we know very little about nature. How old is our knowledge of science? 200 years maximum. Natural and Supernatural are different terms concocted by us! But Nature is one. We call Supernatural whatever we cannot explain with our limited knowledge. But it belongs to the same Nature.

You cant deny your own consciousness. Because if you do, you prove that you are conscious.

[ila]

With the current discussion going on about origins here is a question that is more philosophical than scientific (although there might be some science to it).

What was there before the big bang and how long was the period before the big bang?

[sesame]

How do you define time?
Where was time before the big bang?


Space is such an important factor in multi dimensions!
How much space did this universe occupy before the big bang?

How many times did this universe expand and collapse? Like Bang...Bang...Bang...

How long has it been doing it?

[Jenae LaTorque]

How do you define time?
Where was time before the big bang?


Space is such an important factor in multi dimensions!
How much space did this universe occupy before the big bang? All of it

How many times did this universe expand and collapse? Like Bang...Bang...Bang... 319 times

How long has it been doing it? Since year 0

[TracyCoxx]

Prove it first by creating life. How about "Life came from Life force itself"?

Exhale oxygen!!! Its like that "emails in this thread" thing all over again! Did you mean emit by photosynthesis?

I didnt say the Ultimate Consciousness is devoid of energy! It is the source of all energy. With E=mc^2 and matter-antimatter collisions, you can see that there is a state when all matter fuses into Energy. But here you and I differ. You prefer stupid energy and I conscious energy.
I had higher expectations for this conversation. You seemed like someone who could grasp the experiments in evolution I cited. You make a huge point out of a trivial use of words to draw attention away from the fact that I showed that your oxygen cycle, water cycle, and the inter-dependence of living beings example doesn't necessarily have to be planned by a god. Yes I know plankton do not have lungs. Blood receives oxygen in the avioli in the lungs. That's how animals exhale CO2. Photosynthesis is the mechanism plants and microorganisms use which uses CO2 and oxygen is the byproduct - i.e. exhales oxygen "i.e. give forth gaseous matter". Look it up, but try and keep up with the actual content of the conversation.

Same with the nothingness I described. Try and focus here: Why is this NOTHING so favourite to me. (and no I won't ridicule your grammer there): Because anything other than nothing (and yes, that would include conscious energy) would beg the question: How did that come to be?

Stop deflecting and continue the conversation.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Prove it first by creating life. How about "Life came from Life force itself"?

.

You take nature for granted, as if you know it all! I think we know very little about nature. How old is our knowledge of science? 200 years maximum. Natural and Supernatural are different terms concocted by us! But Nature is one. We call Supernatural whatever we cannot explain with our limited knowledge. But it belongs to the same Nature.

You cant deny your own consciousness. Because if you do, you prove that you are conscious.
__________________________________________________ __________

So.... our knowledge of science only goes back 200 years? maximum? Ok, let's seen now 2009 ...minus.... 200 .... equals....... 1809. No science before the year 1809. Oh, you are absolutely right ...... there were no scientists before then........ they were heretics and unbelievers Best to burn em, hang em. whatever, ...just shut them up before they erode the faith of the faithful. Fie on Newton! To hell with Benjamin Franklin! Keep Galileo in jail until he dies!:lol::lol::lol:

[sesame]

Just because scientists have observed a few Laws, dont take nature for granted! "Oh, its that simple nature we've always known!"
NO! Its that Ancient, mostly Unknown Nature, that has controlled everything since the beginning of time. All the mysteries are inside her belly!

Natural and Supernatural are different terms concocted by us! We call Supernatural whatever we cannot explain with our limited knowledge. But it belongs to the same Nature.

Who conveniently created life from non-living matter? Who sustained it in this hostile environment? What caused so much water in liquid form on earth? Who taught the first phototrophic bacteria or algae to photosynthesize? What plan caused the emitted oxygen to support all other lifeforms? All other cycles... Nitrogen, CO2, H2O, Aminoacids, RNA, DNA... ... I mean not only things concerned with life, but also atoms, their structure, their properties, sub-atomic particles, electrons, their orbits, their hungry and satisfied states... its amazingly well planned! You think all these connections happened by chance? This unscientific fascination of prejudiced scientists with Chance or, Accident or, Luck is so illogical!

Just think of it, the states of matter, solid, liquid, gas, ionic vapour, plasma, fusion, energy... its arranged in a perfect order! Come on, Tracy, this cannot be random!

I am not talking about the insane worship ritual of some deity here. I am talking about Nature in the most Logical manner.

[sesame]

There was no theory of relativity or Quantum mechanics then. I know Gallileo died in 1642. Kepler lived before 1630 and Copernicus before 1543.

If you really want to go back, Euclid lived in the 3rd century BC and there was Vedic Mathematics 1000s of years ago.

Great sage Kapil, the author of Samkhya Philosophy admitted the existence of soul, but denied God, in absence of proof! (Samkhya gave rise to Vedanta and Tantra )
In the Later Vedic age, Philosopher Charvak said, there is no afterlife, so take huge loans, eat butter, enjoy life. There is no God to punish you!

So what? In every age, some people believed in God, some remained sceptics. What I am trying to say is, that Nature's perfect engineering is proof enough of a Higher consciousness. Nature herself is God!

I am not looking for some bearded man on a throne, set upon some clouds, who either sends you to heaven, or, to eternal hellfire, for the work of one tiny lifetime! This idea is indeed preposterous.:p

[Jenae LaTorque]

What I am trying to say is, that Nature's perfect engineering is proof enough of a Higher consciousness. Nature herself is God!

I am not looking for some bearded man on a throne, set upon some clouds, who either sends you to heaven, or, to eternal hellfire, for the work of one tiny lifetime! This idea is indeed preposterous.:p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well then you had best explain how Nature is God. And don't give me that perfect engineering nonsense again, and everything in Nature is a miracle BS.

If nature is such a perfect engineer, then somebody better talk to whoever is in charge of quality control.

The fact is that you are suffering from PITS syndrome and you are the only one who can cure yourself of it. You don't seem to have as bad of a case as a lot of people, so perhaps there is hope for you.

[TracyCoxx]

Who conveniently created life from non-living matter? Who sustained it in this hostile environment? What caused so much water in liquid form on earth? Who taught the first phototrophic bacteria or algae to photosynthesize? What plan caused the emitted oxygen to support all other lifeforms?
Who created the entity who caused all these things? Who created the entity that created the entity who caused all these things? Who created...

Just think of it, the states of matter, solid, liquid, gas, ionic vapour, plasma, fusion, energy... its arranged in a perfect order! Come on, Tracy, this cannot be random!When did I say it was random? Actually you claimed that was my position before and I called you out on your strawman argument. I went through lengthy explanations of cause and effect examples showing that it wasn't just random. Apparently that went in one eyeball and out the other. If you want to have meaningful discussions you will have to stop mischaracterizing my position.

[ila]

Astronomers tell us that the universe is expanding.

What is the universe expanding into?

Is it displacing anything as it expands?

How much more can it expand?

[TracyCoxx]

What I am trying to say is, that Nature's perfect engineering is proof enough of a Higher consciousness. Nature herself is God!

I am not looking for some bearded man on a throne, set upon some clouds, who either sends you to heaven, or, to eternal hellfire, for the work of one tiny lifetime! This idea is indeed preposterous.:pAgain you are mischaracterizing. Who brought up bearded men on thrones and heaven and hell?

Evidence of order is not evidence of consciousness. Take the game of life for example. These complex designs
http://www.codeproject.com/KB/cs/GameOfLifeMultipleInherit/Life35.png
were created by a few simple rules:

* A cell is either dead or alive.

* Each cell (dead or alive) is evaluated according to the number of immediate neighbours (maximum eight in original model).

* Then according to the number of neighbors, each cell may be born, stay alive or die.

(and yes, I know a consciousness invented the game of life, but that was only to create the virtual world where simple physics exists). You can claim that a consciousness created the laws that govern the universe and gave rise to life on earth like a gigantic game of life. But still, who created the consciousness? What does the consciousness exist in before it creates the universe?

Here's an example that doesn't include any consciousness. It's just math. The mandelbrot set, which uses the iterated equation Z = Z2 + C. From that, infinitely complex fractals can be created.
http://www.ddewey.net/mandelbrot/spiral.png

[sesame]

Well then you had best explain how Nature is God. And don't give me that perfect engineering nonsense again, and everything in Nature is a miracle BS.

If nature is such a perfect engineer, then somebody better talk to whoever is in charge of quality control. Is there ANYTHING else other than nature? Are you not a part of Nature? If nature had not designed it so perfectly, how could anything work? Would atoms react to form compounds? Would haemoglobin in blood react with oxygen? Would calcium ions be effective in the synapse... and allow you to formulate arrogant answers?

Your medula oblongata controls your breathing automatically. Your heart cells vibrate automatically. Your enzymes and hormones secrete on time... and allow you to live. Its a miracle that you are alive and not falling down dead like a pebble... thats because we dont sustain ourselves, we dont control our muscles, glands and nerves! Nature does it for us.

Nature is miraculous, her laws are mysterious... such were the thoughts of Michael Faraday(without whom there would be no motor today, no generators... we would be using oil lamps and candles... Now, forget the quantum theory and relativity by Albert ). Einstein considered himself to be a child collecting pebbles on the shores of Nature. (He was not an atheist. He changed his several religion more than once in his lifetime.)

And here comes little Jenae, proud of her bookish knowledge and wikipedia quotes... who is blind to nature's awesome power (she must be raving mad!!!)


How much space did this universe occupy before the big bang? All of itYeah, your logic is so unsound. The expanded and contracted Universe cannot occupy the same amount of space! One is extremely big, another is very small in volume.

How many times did this universe expand and collapse? Like Bang...Bang...Bang... 319 timesThats a good one! I guess you are too tired to think straight today.

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. ~Albert Einstein

In his later years he referred to a cosmic religious feeling that permeated and sustained his scientific work. He wished to experience the universe as a single cosmic whole..

In 1926 Einstein said, "He [God] does not throw dice" referring to randomness thrown up by quantum theory.

Sesame~ This is what I am saying that in Nature, everything is well planned, nothing is a random or chance occurence.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Astronomers tell us that the universe is expanding.

What is the universe expanding into?

Is it displacing anything as it expands?

How much more can it expand?

I don't quite see the point in asking questions that you know full well are unanswerable at this time. What is your point here? Do you suspect I am an alien from a super advanced race, and might impart some wisdom to you?;) Do you want some nonsense answers like I gave Sesame when he asked the same type of questions? :lol: Are you drawing attention to the fact that there is so much in the universe that we don't know, not to mention what lies beyond it? So what? So where? and So how?

[sesame]

Well then you had best explain how Nature is God. And don't give me that perfect engineering nonsense again, and everything in Nature is a miracle BS.

If nature is such a perfect engineer, then somebody better talk to whoever is in charge of quality control. Is there ANYTHING else other than nature? Are you not a part of Nature? If nature had not designed it so perfectly, how could anything work? Would atoms react to form compounds? Would haemoglobin in blood react with oxygen? Would calcium ions be effective in the synapse... and allow you to formulate arrogant answers?

Your medula oblongata controls your breathing automatically. Your heart cells vibrate automatically. Your enzymes and hormones secrete on time... and allow you to live. Its a miracle that you are alive and not falling down dead like a pebble... thats because we dont sustain ourselves, we dont control our muscles, glands and nerves! Nature does it for us.

Nature is miraculous, her laws are mysterious... such were the thoughts of Michael Faraday(without whom there would be no motor today, no generators... we would be using oil lamps and candles... Now, forget the quantum theory and relativity by Albert ). Einstein considered himself to be a child collecting pebbles on the shores of Nature. (He was not an atheist. He changed his several religion more than once in his lifetime.)

And here comes little Jenae, proud of her bookish knowledge and wikipedia quotes... who is blind to nature's awesome power (she must be raving mad!!!)


How much space did this universe occupy before the big bang? All of itYeah, your logic is so unsound. The expanded and contracted Universe cannot occupy the same amount of space! One is extremely big, another is very small in volume.

How many times did this universe expand and collapse? Like Bang...Bang...Bang... 319 timesThats a good one! I guess you are too tired to think straight today.

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. ~Albert Einstein

In his later years he referred to a cosmic religious feeling that permeated and sustained his scientific work. He wished to experience the universe as a single cosmic whole.. Einstein became angry when his views were appropriated by evangelists for atheism. :yes:

In 1926 Einstein said, "He [God] does not throw dice" referring to randomness thrown up by quantum theory.

Sesame~ This is what I am saying that in Nature, everything is well planned, nothing is a random or chance occurrence.

[ila]

I don't quite see the point in asking questions that you know full well are unanswerable at this time. What is your point here? Do you suspect I am an alien from a super advanced race, and might impart some wisdom to you?;) Do you want some nonsense answers like I gave Sesame when he asked the same type of questions? :lol: Are you drawing attention to the fact that there is so much in the universe that we don't know, not to mention what lies beyond it? So what? So where? and So how?

There is no correct answer to what I asked. It is all a philosophical discussion. I was hoping to spark a discussion among the members on what their thoughts are on this subject.

[Jenae LaTorque]

If you read the post above in referance to more foolish questions then it should be obvious why I replied as I did.

Now I can see why you think Einstein was in your camp. That quote of his regarding god's dice has been brought up so many times we are literally sick of hearing it. The correct quote is " God does not play at dice with the Universe." which or course did refer to his uneasiness at the implications of quatum theory. There is nothing there to suggest that Einstein believed in a god. What he also said was:

The more a man is imbued with the ordered regularity of all events the firmer becomes his conviction that there is no room left by the side of this ordered regularity for causes of a different nature. For him neither the rule of human nor the rule of divine will exists as an independent cause of natural events. To be sure, the doctrine of a personal God interfering with natural events could never be refuted, in the real sense, by science, for this doctrine can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific knowledge has not yet been able to set foot.
But I am convinced that such behavior on the part of representatives of religion would not only be unworthy but also fatal. For a doctrine which is to maintain itself not in clear light but only in the dark, will of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable harm to human progress. In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers of religion must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal God, that is, give up that source of fear and hope which in the past placed such vast power in the hands of priests. In their labors they will have to avail themselves of those forces which are capable of cultivating the Good, the True, and the Beautiful in humanity itself. This is, to be sure, a more difficult but an incomparably more worthy task ...

and

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. -- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press

some more quotes by good old Albert:


The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.
-- Albert Einstein, in a letter responding to philosopher Eric Gutkind, who had sent him a copy of his book Choose Life: The Biblical Call to Revolt; quoted from James Randerson, "Childish Superstition: Einstein's Letter Makes View of Religion Relatively Clear: Scientist's Reply to Sell for up to £8,000, and Stoke Debate over His Beliefs" The Guardian, (13 May 2008)

I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms.
-- Albert Einstein, obituary in New York Times, 19 April 1955, quoted from James A Haught (http://www.wvinter.net/~haught/), "Breaking the Last Taboo (http://www.newwave.net/~haught/breaking.html)" (1996)

I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it.
-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press

One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
-- Albert Einstein, echoing Robert Green Ingersoll (http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/ingersoll.htm) ("I admit that reason is a small and feeble flame, a flickering torch by stumblers carried in the star-less night, -- blown and flared by passion's storm, -- and yet, it is the only light. Extinguish that, and nought remains." from the Field-Ingersoll Debate), quoted from PhysLink.com (http://www.physlink.com/Index.cfm)

I myself like this one the best:

The mystical trend of our time, which shows itself particularly in the rampant growth of the so-called Theosophy and Spiritualism, is for me no more than a symptom of weakness and confusion. Since our inner experiences consist of reproductions, and combinations of sensory impressions, the concept of a soul without a body seem to me to be empty and devoid of meaning.
The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. The religion which based on experience, which refuses dogmatic. If there's any religion that would cope the scientific needs it will be Buddhism....
If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.
The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge.
Immortality? There are two kinds. The first lives in the imagination of the people, and is thus an illusion. There is a relative immortality which may conserve the memory of an individual for some generations. But there is only one true immortality, on a cosmic scale, and that is the immortality of the cosmos itself. There is no other.
-- Albert Einstein, quoted in Madalyn Murray O'Hair, All the Questions You Ever Wanted to Ask American Atheists (1982) vol. ii., p. 29

I think you had better come up with sources on when and where Einstein became angry and more importantly, the reason he became angry.

[TracyCoxx]

Astronomers tell us that the universe is expanding.

What is the universe expanding into?

Is it displacing anything as it expands?

How much more can it expand?

There were 3 possibilities. The universe is closed, and therefore shaped like a 4D sphere, flat, or open, and shaped like a 4D hyperboloid. The WMAP probe has given us the answer. To very close approximation, the universe is flat. So it extends out to infinity in all directions.

It can still expand. The distance between two points in the universe will, on the whole, increase.

How much more can it expand? Forever.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Is there ANYTHING else other than nature? Are you not a part of Nature? If nature had not designed it so perfectly, how could anything work? Would atoms react to form compounds? Would haemoglobin in blood react with oxygen? Would calcium ions be effective in the synapse... and allow you to formulate arrogant answers?

Your medula oblongata controls your breathing automatically. Your heart cells vibrate automatically. Your enzymes and hormones secrete on time... and allow you to live. Its a miracle that you are alive and not falling down dead like a pebble... thats because we dont sustain ourselves, we dont control our muscles, glands and nerves! Nature does it for us.

Nature is miraculous, her laws are mysterious... such were the thoughts of Michael Faraday(without whom there would be no motor today, no generators... we would be using oil lamps and candles... Now, forget the quantum theory and relativity by Albert ). Einstein considered himself to be a child collecting pebbles on the shores of Nature. (He was not an atheist. He changed his several religion more than once in his lifetime.)

And here comes little Jenae, proud of her bookish knowledge and wikipedia quotes... who is blind to nature's awesome power (she must be raving mad!!!)

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Sesame~ This is what I am saying that in Nature, everything is well planned, nothing is a random or chance occurrence.

__________________________________________________ _____________

I am not blind to the awesome power of nature. And I cerainly am not raving mad. You are the one who is ready to worship nature as a god because you believe it is perfect and so well planned. And all without any evidence. That is irrational behavior. It is irrational to believe that nature is perfect when there are so many examples of things that go wrong in Nature.
When you encounter a child with a cleft palatte, or when you meet a person with Down's syndrome, do you say "Praise Nature for making you this way."
When Nature brings a tsunami to your shores and kills thousands of people, do you just smile and say, "It is Nature's will." I should hope not. If I was standing where my house used to be and my family was all dead; then you come up to me and voice such opinions I would simply kill you and say "Ain't it wonderful that Nature needed you dead because you were TSTL."

[TracyCoxx]

The International Astronomical Union declared Pluto as the Nineth Planet of our solar system in 1930. Why has it suddenly been kicked out of the list?

Since this hasn't been answered, I'll go ahead and answer. Even though Pluto does have it's own moon, Pluto is smaller than the Earth's moon. Also, more and more objects have been discovered like large asteroids as well as large icy bodies beyond Pluto's orbit in the Kuiper belt. Not only that, but Pluto's orbit is inclined 17 degrees relative to the rest of the planets' orbits. So some astronomers have for years been wanting to downgrade Pluto's status as a planet.

Out of respect for Pluto's discoverer, Clyde Tombaugh, it has remained a planet. But after he died in 1997, there were increasing calls to downgrade Pluto. In 2006, the International Astronomical Union came up with some arbitrary categories of planetary bodies:
Planet
* is in orbit around the Sun
* has sufficient mass to be roundish
* has cleared its orbit of debris

A non satellite body fulfilling only the first two of these is a Dwarf Planet (which is what Pluto is now called). If it fulfills only the first criteria, it's a Small Solar System Body (SSSB).

So there are now 8 planets, and 5 dwarf planets in the solar system. They are Ceres (once considered a planet for many years), Pluto, Eris, Makemake, and Humea.

[Jenae LaTorque]

I am interested in your views on Richard C. Hoagland's Hyperdimensional physics (http://www.enterprisemission.com/hyper1.html).

http://www.enterprisemission.com/hyper1.html

So what do you think? Is he on to something or is he another Velikovsky type?

[TracyCoxx]

I am interested in your views on Richard C. Hoagland's Hyperdimensional physics (http://www.enterprisemission.com/hyper1.html).

http://www.enterprisemission.com/hyper1.html

So what do you think? Is he on to something or is he another Velikovsky type?

Yeah, he's 100% nut job and has been for many years. There is more BS in that link than there is in Lubbock TX. Do you see anything in there of merit? If so we can start there.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Yeah, he's 100% nut job and has been for many years. There is more BS in that link than there is in Lubbock TX. Do you see anything in there of merit? If so we can start there.
:yes:______________________:yes:__________________ :yes:__________________:yes:

I found the truth abouth the "Face on Mars"!!! It is posted at:

http://www.geocities.com/beaver_militia/nasa.html

Now this really makes sense!:rolleyes: I guess I kinda always knew it too.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

Remember when we first met (Posting VS Pictures)?

I said that "bisines is business" was an excuse for someone that had done something dispicable?

Well, if busines is business, why then in the movie "Duplicity" are the 2 ceo always at eachother'd throat, if business was business, when one got the other they would kinda laugh about it, since business is business and not personnal?

Oh, and it is a nice movie.

JohnDowe.

[Jenae LaTorque]

It is an ideal that the perfect businessman would like to attain, but is pretty much not possible for most humans. Which is mostly a good thing.

I think this really came out in the Godfather movies. That idea is used several times thoughout the series until Michael Corleone (Al Pacino) finally hollars BS and says it definately is personal.

I havent seen Duplicity yet, but am looking forward to seeing it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

[TracyCoxx]

:yes:______________________:yes:__________________ :yes:__________________:yes:

I found the truth abouth the "Face on Mars"!!! It is posted at:

http://www.geocities.com/beaver_militia/nasa.html

Now this really makes sense!:rolleyes: I guess I kinda always knew it too.

Damn... the secret's out

[johndowe]

The International Astronomical Union declared Pluto as the Nineth Planet of our solar system in 1930. Why has it suddenly been kicked out of the list?

Because they like picking on the "little" guys.

JohnDowe

[timhaas]

Dear Jenae, could u please, identify this gorgeous girl? I've already tried a specific ID thread on this forum, but with no luck, infortunately! Thanks a lot in advance!