Thoughts on UFO's??

[violet lightning]

Anyone believe in UFO.s? Anyone had a sighting, or perhaps an encounter?
Or maybe you think its complete bullshit....

Now I have seen a few strange things in the sky, so I would say I have seen a few UFOs. Now whether they were aliens I have no idea. My guess is we have and are being visited, but they may be probes or something like we send out. Wouldn't suprise me.
We're searching for planets hospitable to life, so maybe others are too. Maybe our planet is even a nursery of sorts. ( insects are very alien! and jellyfish??!they're wierd! :eek:) Maybe ants originally were aliens and have been living here sucessfully for millions of years! :D
One thing I don't like is that they have become big business to some degree. You see tons of books, movies, websites, pseudo documentaries, symposiums, etc., not to mention tourism in places like Roswell and Marfa, TX.
It obscures the facts, if indeed there are any.

Thoughts anyone?

[transjen]

UFO'S maybe after all we are not the only intellengce in the universe but the JERSEY DEVIL is total BS :yes: Jennifer

[tslust]

All UFOs are is a flying object that can't be identified.
That being said, I can't really say if these sightings are real. I mean, I didn't believe that ghost could exist until I saw one (or rather several). There probably is intelligent life out there some where, otherwise it would be an empty universe.

Jennifer, there's no Jersey Devil?:rolleyes::lol::D

[violet lightning]

All UFOs are is a flying object that can't be identified.
That being said, I can't really say if these sightings are real. I mean, I didn't believe that ghost could exist until I saw one (or rather several). There probably is intelligent life out there some where, otherwise it would be an empty universe.

I agree wholeheartedly.
And your ghost story sounds very intriguing. Do tell. (or should we start a "ghost stories: thread?!)

[TracyCoxx]

Anyone believe in UFO.s? Anyone had a sighting, or perhaps an encounter?
Or maybe you think its complete bullshit....
Complete bullshit.

Although I have seen some very odd lights over Brownsville TX many years ago. It was a illuminated line moving very fast and erratically in the sky. It's a huge leap to go from odd lights in the sky to ALIENS though. I mean, it's not as if we have no way of putting lights in the sky ourselves.

Then, on the scientific side, we've only been producing radio waves that would catch another civilization's attention for the last 60-70 years. So only civilizations within 60-70 light years would even know there's intelligent life here. We've already looked at stars within that distance and none of them are broadcasting anything. I do think there is intelligent life out there though... somewhere. I just don't think they have been here.

Other scientific points... It takes an enormous amount of energy to travel near the speed of light. And because of relativity, the space travelers would return to their planet 10s of thousands, maybe even millions of years in their future. What would it be worth to that civilization to send a crew to investigate our planet if they would not reap any benefits from that mission for thousands to millions of years later?

And I know the old argument... just because we haven't found a way to go faster than the speed of light doesn't mean an advanced civilization can't figure it out. I'm a physicist though, and the speed of light is most definitely the speed limit. We have witnessed some of the most energetic events in the universe... galaxies colliding, supernova, gamma ray bursts from the edge of the universe that put out as much energy as a million suns would in their entire life every second. Nothing has been seen to break the speed of light.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Maybe, maybe not. As we all know, Einstein's theories are starting to show a few cracks, and what about inter-dimensional travel, worm holes, etc.? You know at one time, a fast horse was considered the maximum speed attainable.

[TracyCoxx]

Maybe, maybe not. As we all know, Einstein's theories are starting to show a few cracks, and what about inter-dimensional travel, worm holes, etc.? You know at one time, a fast horse was considered the maximum speed attainable.

A fast horse may have been thought of as the fastest people could travel on, but we knew of speed limits that were faster. This isn't like breaking the sound barrier, which was an engineering problem. The speed of light is a physical limit. If you go faster your mass will be imaginary (as in square root of negative one kind of imaginary). It's just not mathematically possible.

Yes, they could use a worm hole which would theoretically completely bypass space between here and there. But there aren't any wormholes that open up around here. It would look like either a black hole (detectable) or a theoretical white hole (very detectable). One could be constructed, but they would have to either construct one, and bring one end here (again at a speed not greater than light) or come here (again at a speed not greater than light) and somehow cause one end to open up here.

If the cracks you're talking about in general relativity are about it being incompatible with quantum mechanics, that comes into play at subatomic distances or around the time of the big bang. If there's other cracks you know of I'd be interested to know about it.

[Jenae LaTorque]

What's your say on the other dimensions?

[TracyCoxx]

What's your say on the other dimensions?

The shortest path between 2 points is a straight line. Traveling via other dimensions would be further.

Besides, there are 3 spatial dimensions, 1 time dimension, and probably quite a few smaller dimensions. The smaller ones are on the order of 10^-35 meters long or smaller. Good for making forces, but useless for travel. If they were large enough to travel along we would see them, and they would also play a major role in physics and we would know about them.

Hot avatar BTW :turnon:

[ARIES666]

Wow, Tracy....you certainly are more than "just another pretty face";)....I am impressed! Maybe Art Bell should have you on his show some night!

[violet lightning]

:) One of my favorite quotes is "The universe is not only stranger than we imagine, its stranger than we CAN imagine."

Excellent discussion! :respect:

Who knows what, if anything is out there, (intelligent life) and if so, what they know about physics, galactic travel, and such may be light years ahead of us.

But I also believe its possible that Earth is so far out in the boondocks of the galaxy, that we may be an undiscovered hick planet. Might be better that way too.

Brownsville, eh. I used to fly in there every so often when I was a private pilot. I've seen some nightime lights (like satellites) do some strange things, like stop on a dime and instantly disappear. I have no idea what it was, but I was looking right at it.

I think there is alot of sophisticated hoaxing going on too. People are funny that way, and quite ingenious. Reminds me of the crop circles phenomena.

One of the things I liked about Red Dwarf ,MIB and Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy, is they all brought up size and scale. Like a whole fleet of terrible alien spaceships bent on destroying Earth being accidentally swallowed whole by a yawning dog! Who is to say aliens couldn't be (to us) microscopic, or so vast, we can't even see the whole.
We still don't even know what the "Universe" is exactly, or whats beyond it, or what started it. (I'm a layman, but the Big Bang theory deals with what started the universe, not what came before dosn't it?)

[tslust]

One of the things I liked about Red Dwarf ,MIB and Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy, is they all brought up size and scale. Like a whole fleet of terrible alien spaceships bent on destroying Earth being accidentally swallowed whole by a yawning dog! Who is to say aliens couldn't be (to us) microscopic, or so vast, we can't even see the whole.
We still don't even know what the "Universe" is exactly, or whats beyond it, or what started it. (I'm a layman, but the Big Bang theory deals with what started the universe, not what came before dosn't it?)

I loved the end sequence in the first MIB. It zooms out until you see the whole known universe, and its nothing but a child's marble.

[tslust]

I agree wholeheartedly.
And your ghost story sounds very intriguing. Do tell. (or should we start a "ghost stories: thread?!)

I've had experiences for most of my life (many of these could be explained away). One weekend I went camping with some guys I know (no sex, just camping:p). We were camped near an old cemetry. Saturday, the topic of ghosts came up. I told them that I didn't believe ghosts could possibly be real. One guy told me, "You will by the end of the night." He had camped there before.
It was about 10:30 or 11:00 PM, myself and two others were just walking around talking. When we began to notice shadows in the cemetry where there shouldn't have been any. We just kinda blew it off and continued talking and walking around. Then, when we got close to our camp site again, about an hour and a half later, we saw these shadows moving around! These shadows weren't being cast by trees or the moon or anything like that, and besides there wasn't any wind blowing. These shadows were just moving around on their own! We crept back up to our bedrolls and got under our covers. Even though it was August, I pulled my blanket over my head, so I wouldn't have to watch the shadows, (Out of sight, out of mind:D.) and I closed my eyes tightly shut.
The next day we told some of the guys that had camped there before what we saw. They've all had simular experiences there. The one guy said, "I said you would believe, didn't I?" Another said, "Now you know why we went to sleep soo early."
Since then I keep an open mind when I hear someone else talk about their ghost encounters.

[Breezy]

Maybe, maybe not. As we all know, Einstein's theories are starting to show a few cracks, and what about inter-dimensional travel, worm holes, etc.? You know at one time, a fast horse was considered the maximum speed attainable.

oh really? how do u figure? call me ignorant, but last time i checked a theory was a hypothesis that has been PROVEN accurate by multiple scientists. Thats like saying that 1+1 does not always equal 2... just doesnt work like that. I'm just assuming that you were refering to his theory of relativity.

oh and btw, in this time you speak of- where a fast horse was considered to be the maximum speed attainable- that was the maximum speed they could attain with their technology(or lack of). So are u insinuating that one may be able to travel faster than the speed of light, in the future? haha, do u some research.

worm-holes, black holes, and inter dimensional travel; Einstein believed in those, and have been proven to be very real. Maybe you should look into Quatum Mechanics a bit become making outlandish claims like that. :respect:

[violet lightning]

:D I think we're mostly talking in generalities and possibilities.
Is there a unified field theory yet? Seems like there were and are a few things that Einstein. Hawkings and others have yet to explain or prove, so maybe the door is open to things you or others haven't thought about or developed yet.
(a hypothesis has been proven, but does that mean it can't be further developed or interpreted, or new aspects of it discovered? )
To me, its an exciting time, and we are on the threshold of many new discoveries. String theory, quantum mechanics, biogenetics, just to name a few...
Also, if interdimensional travel is possible, wouldn't that negate the need to travel faster than light?

[Jenae LaTorque]

All I am is saying is that to state something like FTL travel is impossible is simply silly. All we know for certain is that we can't do it now at this point in time. We do not know what is possible in the future. History is full of respected scientists stating that so and so is not possible, an lo and behold, not so many years later, they had egg on their face. 200 years ago, who would have imagined that someday a person would be able to have a conversation with someone on the other side of the planet or for that matter, on the moon. So what I am saying is;

"Nothings impossible, we just can't do it right now"

[TracyCoxx]

All I am is saying is that to state something like FTL travel is impossible is simply silly.

Why would you say it's simply silly? I mean, it's not as if there aren't some pretty damn convincing equations saying it's impossible. It's not as if there haven't been extremely accurate experiments testing this claim. It's not as if there haven't been some extremely energetic events like gamma ray bursts, black holes and supernovas that all are limited by the speed of light.

You might say that scientists in the past have been proven wrong, but then you'd be ignoring the enormous progress we've made over the past 100 years. An analogy would be like suggesting that there could still be cheese on the moon since scientists 100 years ago have had theories about the moon that have been proven wrong. Yes we've been to the moon now and haven't seen any cheese, but we've only been 6 times. Who's to say we know all there is to know about the moon? Who's to say there isn't cheese there that we don't know about? To say with certainty that there isn't any cheese there is just silly.

[TracyCoxx]

Wow, Tracy....you certainly are more than "just another pretty face";)....I am impressed! Maybe Art Bell should have you on his show some night!

Thank you :) But I doubt Art Bell is interested in real science.

[violet lightning]

You know what gripes me about UFO's (and I want to believe, but I am skeptical) is there isn't any good video footage still.
There was a time not too long ago, when no one had managed to get a good shot of a tornado in action. A little hard with the old film cameras, but once movie cameras and especially video cameras and cellphones came along, we see video of them all the time. (in HD no less!) The same with rogue waves. Anectdotal evidence had been around for centuries , but it wasn't until the 1990's I think, that someone aboard a tanker finally got one on film just as it hit. Remote sensors have picked them up too and were able to measure wave height.
But still no good UFO footage, even though its more sought after than Osama Bin Laden.

And not to mention "underwater UFOs" ....

[runround04]

if there are Aliens and they Visit why dont they stay, commicate... and so on? Whats so wrong with us?

[violet lightning]

:D I still like my stellar nursery (or agricultural station) idea!
Earth could be a nursery where all kinds of life grows. UFO's might be remote or piloted but simply don't want to bother us (the inhabitants) while they go about their business of checking on various species progress, etc.
Maybe cattle mutilations (if they really exist) are the results of organ harvesting for tests or some other reason. (like the way we are starting to grow human ears and such on the backs of mice)

What blows me away about life on earth is just how much and how varied it is! And how strange the various species are and how different from each other. (I suppose at the DNA level though, we may all be pretty close) As I said before, we have all kinds of bacteria, viruses, plants, trees, insects, retiles. mammals, birds, fish, bi-valves, luminous jellyfish, and probably lots we haven't discovered yet. Life that lives in permafrost ice and life that thrives on chemicals instead of sunlight at the bottom of the ocean.
Many scientists agree that at least some life on Earth could be the result of meteors and the like bringing alien life to Earth,so the idea that some civiliazation may have done it on purpose does not seem too far fetched.
(I think Carl Sagan said "We are all made of stardust")

The other, more likely explanation (although not nearly as fun to ponder!), is that UFO.s are the result of secret military projects. (like the Stealth fighter and bomber projects) That might explain why no good footage is ever seen. Its confiscated.
The military is working on lots of new ideas, but one I know of is the development of UAV's, (unmanned aerial vehicles) for surveilance, counter insurgency and combat. The "Predator" is one example, but I bet they have all kinds of smaller and larger types for a variety of purposes. (small, hover-capable ones for urban surveillance, quiet, strange-looking.... hey, what if you crossed a small blimp or balloon with a radio control model and fitted it with night vision, fleer, or whatever...)

[tslust]

The other, more likely explanation (although not nearly as fun to ponder!), is that UFO.s are the result of secret military projects. (like the Stealth fighter and bomber projects) That might explain why no good footage is ever seen. Its confiscated.
The military is working on lots of new ideas, but one I know of is the development of UAV's, (unmanned aerial vehicles) for surveilance, counter insurgency and combat. The "Predator" is one example, but I bet they have all kinds of smaller and larger types for a variety of purposes. (small, hover-capable ones for urban surveillance, quiet, strange-looking.... hey, what if you crossed a small blimp or balloon with a radio control model and fitted it with night vision, fleer, or whatever...)

I remember one time my family and I were at Whiteman Air Force Base. One of the B-2 pilots was giving a tour of the simulator building. He said, "We don't always know what this thing [the B-2 bomber] will do. It still does things that we don't know why or how."
So, you might not be too far off. Either UFOs are test craft of the DOD, or (another possibility) they use reverse engineered parts from an already crashed UFO. I once spoke to an Air Force veteran, he told me that he spent a year at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. He was assigned to guard a hanger. The hanger was filled with boxes and crates and was sealed. His orders were to shoot on sight if anyone crossed a line about 150 yards in tront of his post.

[Rachel]

While fishing on Stellwagon Bank about 150 miles east of Montauk L.I , I saw a silver object in the sky. This object was at an extreme altitude yet left no contrail. It was moving fast as I saw it but then really poured on the throttle and was gone. Now being that far out to the East we were clear of the city smog. I was laying flat on my back on top of my cooler looking up into a clear blue sky. I saw this object for about 5 seconds. This was the first of two things I've seen that cant be explained. More to come...

[NCC-1701]

if we can exist, in an infinite universe, so can other plants support life :) but we seem to think of all life as carbon based, what about silicon based life or gaseous? just cause we dont know, doesnt mean it aint life :)

[TracyCoxx]

What blows me away about life on earth is just how much and how varied it is! And how strange the various species are and how different from each other. (I suppose at the DNA level though, we may all be pretty close) As I said before, we have all kinds of bacteria, viruses, plants, trees, insects, retiles. mammals, birds, fish, bi-valves, luminous jellyfish, and probably lots we haven't discovered yet. Life that lives in permafrost ice and life that thrives on chemicals instead of sunlight at the bottom of the ocean.
Many scientists agree that at least some life on Earth could be the result of meteors and the like bringing alien life to Earth,so the idea that some civiliazation may have done it on purpose does not seem too far fetched.
(I think Carl Sagan said "We are all made of stardust")Stardust in the sense that all elements that we consist of other than hydrogen were the result of prior supernovas. It's quite possible that amino acids that spawned life here could have come from comets or asteroids. Some have been found on comets I believe. But even though there's a wide variety of live on earth, evidence shows that it all evolved here. Fossil records show transitions from one species to another, and mitochondrial DNA show a transition as well. There is such a wide variety of life because there is such a wide variety of environments coupled with increasingly advanced life forms that evolve to suit these environments in more and more varied ways.


While fishing on Stellwagon Bank about 150 miles east of Montauk L.I , I saw a silver object in the sky. This object was at an extreme altitude yet left no contrail. It was moving fast as I saw it but then really poured on the throttle and was gone. Now being that far out to the East we were clear of the city smog. I was laying flat on my back on top of my cooler looking up into a clear blue sky. I saw this object for about 5 seconds. This was the first of two things I've seen that cant be explained. More to come...
Was it within the last year or so? If so, it could have been the space station. It is getting large enough to see in the day time if you happen to be looking at exactly at the right spot. It will appear slow towards the horizon and to gain speed as it goes overhead.

[Rachel]

No Tracey, this was 20 years ago. And I was looking at it directly overhead. I see sattelites all the time in my stargazing and it was no sattelite.

[violet lightning]

Here is a strange incident from a few months back. I was outside at around 10:00 pm stargazing. I saw a satellite and followed it till it disappeared on the horizon. I kept looking and then saw a shooting star, then about 5 minutes later I saw another satellite traveling east to west, and began to follow it. After traveling for several seconds across the sky, it passed (presumably) in front of a stationary star(?) and at that exact second, it disappeared in mid flight! (like it "merged" with the star) It was clear, and the stars and satellites were bright and easy to follow. I couldn't really believe what I had just seen, and continued to stay fixed on the star where the satellite disappeared. It never emerged, and the only explanation I could think of, is that the satellite shifted position enough to stop the light reflecting off it,(which I haven't actually seen happen) and it just happened to occur at the exact millisecond that my eyes saw it pass behind or in front of the star. (or maybe it was a mothership?) If it were a jet, it would have had to do an instant 90 degree turn in the space behind the star, and head due north away from me continuing behind the star to appear to me like it had vanished..
Could also be a piece of illuminated space junk hitting another piece, causing it to disintegrate and disappear, but the "star" did seem to be stationary, as I watched it for several minutes, so it likely was not space junk or even necessarily in orbit. If it was a star, how could a satellite appear to vanish at the exact moment that it crossed paths with a tiny dot like a star? And why would a satellite vanish in mid-flight like that? I've tracked dozens and dozens and they have all been pretty steady, usually fading out only as they cross the horizon.
Another possibility is, it was not a satellite or an aircraft, but something else. Same thing with the "star". It looked like a star, but was it?
(this was, by my judgement, at very high altitude, low or high orbit or beyond)
I'm not drawing any conclusions other than its one of the strangest things I've seen.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Probably just a scout ship from the alien moon base picking up a recording from a geosynchrous spy satelite. Nothing to worry about, just don't talk about it too much.:lol:

[Jenae LaTorque]

Seriously, don't that just beat all! I tell ya, I do believe there are somethings out there. Just to much evidence pointing in that direction and I don't blame them one bit for not coming down to talk to us. Just think how the religious crackpots would react. Thanks for the experiance Violet. Luv, Jenae

[transjen]

I've seen strange lights in the Jersey sky before on Jacksonvile road was it a UFO? Who knows? But like BIGFOOT,THE JERSEY DEVIL,UFOS there are those that believe and there are those who say it's all BS, I guess i'm in the middle i'm not saying yes nor am i saying no i'm saying i have no idea but i will say that the chances of UFOS is better then BIGFOOT or THE JERSEY DEVIL, for those who don't believe they will keep that opion till they are taken aboard and have a probe jamed up there A** and even then they will still say there is no such thing :eek: Jerseygirl Jen

[tslust]

Here is a strange incident from a few months back. I was outside at around 10:00 pm stargazing. I saw a satellite and followed it till it disappeared on the horizon. I kept looking and then saw a shooting star, then about 5 minutes later I saw another satellite traveling east to west, and began to follow it. After traveling for several seconds across the sky, it passed (presumably) in front of a stationary star(?) and at that exact second, it disappeared in mid flight! (like it "merged" with the star) It was clear, and the stars and satellites were bright and easy to follow. I couldn't really believe what I had just seen, and continued to stay fixed on the star where the satellite disappeared. It never emerged, and the only explanation I could think of, is that the satellite shifted position enough to stop the light reflecting off it,(which I haven't actually seen happen) and it just happened to occur at the exact millisecond that my eyes saw it pass behind or in front of the star. (or maybe it was a mothership?) If it were a jet, it would have had to do an instant 90 degree turn in the space behind the star, and head due north away from me continuing behind the star to appear to me like it had vanished..
Could also be a piece of illuminated space junk hitting another piece, causing it to disintegrate and disappear, but the "star" did seem to be stationary, as I watched it for several minutes, so it likely was not space junk or even necessarily in orbit. If it was a star, how could a satellite appear to vanish at the exact moment that it crossed paths with a tiny dot like a star? And why would a satellite vanish in mid-flight like that? I've tracked dozens and dozens and they have all been pretty steady, usually fading out only as they cross the horizon.
Another possibility is, it was not a satellite or an aircraft, but something else. Same thing with the "star". It looked like a star, but was it?
(this was, by my judgement, at very high altitude, low or high orbit or beyond)
I'm not drawing any conclusions other than its one of the strangest things I've seen.

that's interesting

[onefunkndesi]

or at least I think I did when I was a young boy flying my kite in the park. It was super fast though.

[violet lightning]

I'm skeptical about sightings in general, not that people see something, just that most probably have a rational (and boring) explanation. Things like Bigfoot, and the chupacabra, if they exist, are likely an aberation of something already in existence, (like a wildman, or "sub-human", in Sasquatch's case, and a feral dog or similar in the case of the chupacabra)
I think Nessie is a complete myth, probably one of the early tourist attractions, but of course quite fun to believe in or hope for.... but outer space is alot bigger than Loch Ness, and theres no telling whats floating around out there, and what (or who) is trolling the space around Earth, and who, (if anyone) might be checking us out.
So far, one of the best arguments about scientific evidence versus UFOs comes from one of the astronomers involved with the Very Large Array (VLA) and other projects involved in listening to signals from space. One said something like: "Do you really think we would be investing all this time, money and energy on listening for signals if we thought there was any credible scientific evidence that we were already being visited by extraterrestrials? Our work would be instantly obsolete."
I gotta admit he had a pretty good point.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Perhaps he just isn't one in the know. Can't remember where I read this but it quoted the guy who was head of the radar department for NASA during the Apollo Missions; he said everyone of those flights was followed by UFOs.

[Marine_N41_432]

Quite clearly some phenomenon is going on. Thing about us humans, we have an irritating way of inventing explanations to suit ourselves and our experiences / beliefs. Sure, I've had one experience myself of a UFO for which I could conceive no rational explanation, but I have to leave it at that.

Korean War pilots have documented reports on Foo Fighters, as also have RAF fighter patrols in Britain. And even the grand old English ' Coppers ' have had some sightings.

As for explanations ? Well, gravity-disturbing mascons just under the surface crust of the moon would certainly interfere with lines of sight on satellites or space junk, or, for that matter any stellar object. I'm not saying that this is always the explanation, butit might explain one or two sightings.
UFOs off North Island in New Zealand appear to be accounted for by massive quartzite deposits reating loose static charges running around.

And so the speculation goes on and on.

Meantime I just draw on my nice cool beer, and smile -

[violet lightning]

I agree wholeheartedly! Cheers! :D

As a private pilot myself, I have to agree that theres more out there than we are being told. Pilots, aircrew, and radar operators are some of the best and most credible witnesses to these phenomena.
I have heard about the Apollo missions, although I have never heard the whole story. I have heard some very credible reports about Foo Fighters too from some WW2 vet pilots and aircrew.

Totally unrelated perhaps, but my favorite rock band is the "Foo Fighters"!
(not "UFO" as some might think:lol:)

[TracyCoxx]

The "UFO" that Buzz referred to on his mission to the moon was their discarded Earth-Moon rocket stage. And yes, it was seen by radar.

[Adis]

Well its not impossible but the problem is that alien life would be so far away that a trip here would be so costly. Why would anyone come so for just to "take a look"?

[violet lightning]

:D My thought on that is one we have discussed before. The physical limits of time/distance versus space travel.
What some are saying is long-distance space travel is a virtual impossibility since it would take light years to get anywhere.

What others suggest is there may be alternatives we don't know about yet.

One thing that has remained constant on Earth is the ability of man to consistantly revise upward the concept of time and distance.
First we walked 4 miles an hour, then rode horses a little faster, so we could cover the same distance in less time. Then came the wheel, and the sailing ship, which could cross the Atlantic in a month or so. (that was considered top speed then), then steamships came and knocked it down to days, and once again our concept of time and distance was changed. Now we can fly coast to coast in hours instead of years by foot, months by wagon, weeks by rail or days by car.
Transatmospheric engines and aircraft will probably cut hours down to minutes and then what? Is there any limit? Will we go inter-dimensional? Point-to-Point?
Only the future can tell.....heh heh.
Shit, maybe we will all be destroyed by another meteor and the whole planet will start over again...just as it has countless times before.....?:eek::eek:

[johndowe]

Hi there.

Talk about a loaded subject that attracts more loaded subjects...

UFO's: When i was 16 or so (34 years ago) we me and my sister were in the country in a field in a farmland area called St Lin, yeah i know, where the heck is that? it's a small farming town near (30mi North of) Montreal Qc Canada, we were alone and watching the clouds the we sa this black disk like thing high in the sky it moved like it was rotating kinda out of balance and not that fast, we watched for 2-3 minutes until it was hidden by some clouds, it could have been anything but it seemed to be something that was man-made or something, but not a naturally occuring thing.

FTL travel: I remenber about 25 years ago they were talking about tachions sub atomic particles that traveled beyond the speed of light, also it was proven that electricity can travel faster than the speed of light.

Extra terrestrial life: there are BILLIONS of stars in relatively close proximity of our solar system, so i really think that it is IMPOSSIBLE that the earth would be the only one that harbored life, some scientist believe that there might have been life on Mars and may still have life.

Also 6 years ago or so, i was living in Ville St-Laurent, which is aprt of Montreal Quebec Canada, and is VERY QUIET, you could go outside stark naked after 11:30pm and i would have been the only one to see you, because i would walk my dog at that time, one day in spring i was waking my dog at 12:30 or so, later than usual, i saw 3 little guys that were an almost transparent light grey, about 18" tall, my dog seemed to see them but didn't react to them i was a bit scared but also a bit currious so i got closer they seemed to have brought some other less evolved creatures of ther type with them, they didn't react much to my approach, but they were looking at me got to the fence and made and threw a small snowball near them but making sure to not hit them, the 3 little guys changed their appearrance to look like weeds but light grey in color, so i went back home, and was a bit rattled, and it took me a while to go to sleep.

Before igot to sleep, was reminded of something i said to someone that was saying that they saw a ghost and ran away and i said: i would have done this and that, but now that i was in the situation i didn't do what i said i would, but i did investigte it a bit as i said.

The next morning i went back to see if ther was any evidence of what i saw, there were no weeds, there was nothing there but what should be there a brick wall, pavement and some dirt nothing out of the ordinary, but the building housed a mortuary, and some occupied appartements on the second and third floor, the mortuary was my guess why they were there, i tought i could report it but they were harmless enough and i wasn't totaly sure of what exactly it was i saw, and who to report it to, so i didn't.

The next night i walked my dog at 12:30 again and saw the little guys again then got distracted by my dog and they were gone, i was again a bit unnerved but not harmed in any way, the next night they weren't there but, i saw like a totally transparent cloud, kinda like the vortexes that rise over a barbecue because of the heat, close to where they were, then it came towards me at walking speed, i didn't think it could hurt me, and i didn't think moving out of the way would have been a good idea, so i stood my ground, it stopped in front of me and went back to where it came from and disappeared, the same thing appened the next day, the next day after that i saw the 3 little guys for the last time, but i did see the cloud two more times.

I'm still not sure what i saw, or what they were doing, but i think if i were irish i would have called them Lepricons(excuse my french), or spirits of the earth by native americans and by other names in other cultures i'm sure.

...

[johndowe]

Hi there.

FTL Travel, i remember a theory about folding space?

JohnDowe.

[TheSkronkDonkey]

"UFO" is a major misnomer. Not all "UFOs" are "objects" and not all are "flying" (e.g. light diffraction, vapour trails, electrical activity and other phenomena). To leap to the conclusion that such things are proof of little green men is an even bigger fallacy -- so big I won't even deal with it.

Of course, doubting the efficacy/veracity of "UFO" sightings being proof of alien existence is different to doubting the existence of aliens full stop. To put it mildly, the universe is a formidably vast place; vast in space and vast in time.

Something to chew on: in "Cosmos", Carl Sagan conservatively estimated that there are perhaps 10^22 planets in the universe (ten billion trillion). That was thirty years ago; due to more recent sky mapping and other discoveries, that number can be revised upwards, today.

We also know that there are organic compounds throughout the cosmos. The chances of life arising just once, on one planet, in one obscure region of the universe, seems, well, remote. But we still don't know. We've created organic compounds in the lab, but we have never seen them begin to self-organize and replicate -- the critical process for life. If and when we discover this, it will be one of the biggest breakthroughs in modern science, and we will then be better equipped to understand how common, or how rare, life in the cosmos really is.

[violet lightning]

Thats a pretty interesting story about both the UFO and the little grey guys!
Were the gray men human looking or what? Did they have clothing or anything?
I wonder what their preoccupation with the building was? (maybe they "work" there!) Interesting to contemplate whether they might be Earthlings (including some kind of spirits from here), or aliens that are visiting or live here now.
Also interesting how the dog seemed to see them, but was not really alarmed or even interested. Maybe they are commonplace.

[Tread]

We also know that there are organic compounds throughout the cosmos. The chances of life arising just once, on one planet, in one obscure region of the universe, seems, well, remote. But we still don't know. We've created organic compounds in the lab, but we have never seen them begin to self-organize and replicate -- the critical process for life. If and when we discover this, it will be one of the biggest breakthroughs in modern science, and we will then be better equipped to understand how common, or how rare, life in the cosmos really is.

The hypothesis is that early RNA-Molecules are able to reproduce their selves out of existing substances.
The substances are formed out of chemical reactions. If amino acids are heat, like in black smokers, they can form a simple RNA. The simple RNA that can reproduce it self, is the most that can be found.
In combination with self organized reaction rooms, existence proven, they can form cells. The first microorganism with working metabolism.

But you are right, it has never been seen.



FTL travel: I remenber about 25 years ago they were talking about tachions sub atomic particles that traveled beyond the speed of light, also it was proven that electricity can travel faster than the speed of light.

Where it is proven that electricity can travel faster than the speed of light? Electrons and ions have a mass, and can't travel faster then the speed of light.

Tachyon would have a mass below 0, and until now they are only a possibility in math.


Can I ask you a simple question to your story. Why didn't you go close to them, if you see them so often and they didn't seem harmful?

[johndowe]

Hi there.

I am NOT a phycisist, i AM however an electronic technician i specialize in PC's, havent touched a soldering iron i over 20 years, but high very electric charges in the million of electron volt, the electric charge was said to make the electron's mass insignificant compared to it's electric charge and could thus travel faster then light.

About the little grey guys, only saw them 3 times as i stated, and i didn't think to get a camera and take pictures, there was a fence between where i was and where they were, and i wasn't too sure that getting too close to them was such a good idea, any more than they seem to, it's like when you see a skunk, it may not take much interest in you but if you get too close you are likely to get sprayed, they didn't seem to do anything and they also seemed to be a bit passive, but i don't know what would have happend if i got close enough to touch them, they probably would have left but i'm not sure, and what were they doing there? i have no clue, but there had to be a reason, and it seemed that they could go from where they lived and wher "i" lived easily where we can't (as far as i know) so i didn't want to chance it.

JohnDowe.

[TracyCoxx]

Tachyon would have a mass below 0, and until now they are only a possibility in math.

Actually, tachyons would have an imaginary mass (imaginary as in the square root of a negative number).

[TracyCoxx]

Hi there.

I am NOT a phycisist, i AM however an electronic technician i specialize in PC's, havent touched a soldering iron i over 20 years, but high very electric charges in the million of electron volt, the electric charge was said to make the electron's mass insignificant compared to it's electric charge and could thus travel faster then light.
You can't use every day experiences to determine what will happen at speeds approaching light. When an electron approaches the speed of light, it's tiny insignificant mass will be multiplied by the Lorenz Factor (referred to as gamma):
gamma = 1/(sqrt(1-v^2/c^2))

where c is the speed of light, and v is velocity.

i.e., if v = 99.999999% of the speed of light, then the electron's mass would be about 7000 times it's normal mass.

if v = the speed of light, then it's mass goes up to infinity. That's a no no.

About the little grey guys, only saw them 3 times...uh... yeah.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

Immaginary numbers do exist and are used extensively when calculating vectors and (electrical) phase differentials corectly, havent done any such math in years but i still remember it, and in math you use the lower case i, in elctronics i is for intencity ie current, we use lower case j instead.

So maby tachions are as "real" ?

JohnDowe.

[Tread]

If I see a skunk and there are no signs of defence from it, I would be curious about it, and I would try to get closer. But if I would see something Alien like, 3 times, I would try to know as much as possible about it. I can't belief someone recognize harmless Aliens and has no further interest and walk on as usual.

Calculating with a time point in electricity with inductance and capacitance is not like an imaginary mass. But in math possible.



Actually, tachyons would have an imaginary mass (imaginary as in the square root of a negative number).

Sorry you are right.

[TracyCoxx]

Hi there.

Immaginary numbers do exist and are used extensively when calculating vectors and (electrical) phase differentials corectly, havent done any such math in years but i still remember it, and in math you use the lower case i, in elctronics i is for intencity ie current, we use lower case j instead.

So maby tachions are as "real" ?

JohnDowe.

Yes, imaginary numbers exist, but not as values for physical quantities such as mass.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

Why not it would kinda be like vectored mass (vectored to the other side of the big bang and linked to tachions in that universe?).

Because to create so much mater you would need huge ammounts of energy but if you if the big bang created a positive and a negative universe on opposite plains, the energy needed becomes much smaller and sustainable, obviously can't proove it one way or the other, but it would explain a lot.

JohnDowe.

[TracyCoxx]

Hi there.

Why not it would kinda be like vectored mass (vectored to the other side of the big bang and linked to tachions in that universe?).

Because to create so much mater you would need huge ammounts of energy but if you if the big bang created a positive and a negative universe on opposite plains, the energy needed becomes much smaller and sustainable, obviously can't proove it one way or the other, but it would explain a lot.

JohnDowe.

The positive energy that particles are made up of are balanced by their gravity field (i.e. negative potential energy)

[johndowe]

Hi there.

Negative potential energy...

Well, like a mass above ground would have positive potential, negative potential energy would be like an under water bubble of air trying to get to the surface or like a negative electrical charge or anti mater type of negative potential energy?

JohnDowe.

[TracyCoxx]

Hi there.

Negative potential energy...

Well, like a mass above ground would have positive potential, negative potential energy would be like an under water bubble of air trying to get to the surface or like a negative electrical charge or anti mater type of negative potential energy?

JohnDowe.

When I said "negative potential energy", I should have said "negative energy (or potential energy)" meaning potential energy is negative energy.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

Alot was said about tachions, but what about the theory of folding space?

It would make travel speed almost irrelevant.

JohnDowe.

[TracyCoxx]

Hi there.

Alot was said about tachions, but what about the theory of folding space?

It would make travel speed almost irrelevant.

JohnDowe.

You can't travel faster than light through space. But there's nothing against space itself going faster than light ;)

[KittyKaiti]

I both believe in extraterrestrial intelligent life and have seen UFOs. In August 2000, me and my sister were looking out the bedroom window of the upstairs of my house. We saw a light in the distance. A plane route used to fly in the same direction, so we thought it was a plane. But then as it came closer we saw it was flying too low and too slowly to be a plane. It flew over the trees and houses across the street and then directly over my house. We ran from the front to the back of the house to watch it come over the other side but it was long gone. It travelled about five miles per hour and was very loud, like a rumbling. It was about 20 feet above the roof of the house. It was an octagon shape with a bright white light on each of the eight corners. This occurred about 10:30 at night. The craft was black. After it had gone, we rushed down the stairs to my mother and asked if she just heard the loud rumbling. She said no. It was loud enough for her to hear, I know that. This ended up giving me suspicions that I had also experienced "missing time", which is a common symptom of UFO encounters. Missing time occurs when a period of time passes without you knowing, maybe because you were unconscious, dazed or hypnotised. I think that the craft's technology gave off an energy that causes such, which is why as it passed over, it was gone before we could see it come over the back. I never looked at the clock after the sighting. I don't know how much time had passed between the initial sighting and us running to the back of the house to see it come over. To my knowledge and sister's knowledge it was only seconds. But because of "missing time", it could have been minutes or even hours.

Whether the craft was alien or a government experiment, I don't know. I do know that I saw something that is not currently used on this planet publically. I do though, believe in the existence of intelligent alien life that is visiting this planet and has been for thousands of years.

[TracyCoxx]

I both believe in extraterrestrial intelligent life and have seen UFOs. In August 2000, me and my sister were looking out the bedroom window of the upstairs of my house. We saw a light in the distance....

Awesome! Did you get pictures? Or did anyone else in your neighborhood get pictures?

[TracyCoxx]

"A teaser?"

"Yeah."

"Er, what is ..."

"A teaser? Teasers are usually rich kids with nothing to do. They
cruise around looking for planets which haven't made interstellar
contact yet and buzz them."

"Buzz them?" Arthur began to feel that Ford was enjoying making life
difficult for him.

"Yeah", said Ford, "they buzz them. They find some isolated spot with
very few people around, then land right by some poor soul whom no
one's ever going to believe and then strut up and down in front of him
wearing silly antennae on their heads and making beep beep noises.
Rather childish really."

[KittyKaiti]

Awesome! Did you get pictures? Or did anyone else in your neighborhood get pictures?

If I had pictures they would have been posted here. :rolleyes:

[TracyCoxx]

If I had pictures they would have been posted here. :rolleyes:

Ohhh..... Well next time a big, otherworldly brightly lit craft very slowly goes over your house and your neighborhood at a mere 20 ft & 5 mph making all kinds of noise... TAKE A DAMN PICTURE! LOL

I find it incredible that no one else living around you took pictures that you might have as well. I'd say about 1 in 5 houses around you would have a digital camera ready to go at a moments notice. Oh well... another UFO that got away story.

Even with fast moving meteors, someone's bound to have a camera (sometimes two) on it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B17TmSSb5aI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIv7wL9nWMQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqTd0V_fi_s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBLhEoBTAnc

[KittyKaiti]

Ohhh..... Well next time a big, otherworldly brightly lit craft very slowly goes over your house and your neighborhood at a mere 20 ft & 5 mph making all kinds of noise... TAKE A DAMN PICTURE! LOL

I find it incredible that no one else living around you took pictures that you might have as well. I'd say about 1 in 5 houses around you would have a digital camera ready to go at a moments notice. Oh well... another UFO that got away story.


I was 12 years old and didn't own a camera. And like I said, a plane route runs through the neighborhood, so loud jet engines are common. Maybe not as loud as the sound that night but still, most people would have ignored it. It was also night, so no one is outside looking at the sky. Maybe someone DID see something. It was never brought up to the neighbors.

[The Conquistador]

Awesome! Did you get pictures? Or did anyone else in your neighborhood get pictures?

I think that communicating with it via Harold Faltermeyers Axel F song would have been a more appropriate response rather than snapping pics. But that's just me.

[johndowe]

If I see a skunk and there are no signs of defence from it, I would be curious about it, and I would try to get closer. But if I would see something Alien like, 3 times, I would try to know as much as possible about it. I can’t belief someone recognize harmless Aliens and has no further interest and walk on as usual.


Hi there.

Hey, you assume they were aliens, maby they were, maby not, animals have good instincts about things and people and since my dog didn't see them as hostile or a threat and i kinda concured, and i was keeping an eye on them, but if you weren't there you can't say i would have done this and that, you simply weren't there.

Seeing things that are as unusual as these little guys i acted caushiously, in retrospect the only thing i should have done i didn't was to try to communicate with them but i was a bit nervous every time i saw them, and as i said they didn't do anything that could be interpreted as hostile.

JohnDowe.

[Tread]

Hey, you assume they were aliens, maby they were, maby not

I said Alien like, not Alien.
But it's not that far to think of Aliens in a UFO Thread and your description of them:
... i saw 3 little guys that were an almost transparent light grey, about 18" tall ...
... they seemed to have brought some other less evolved creatures of ther type with them ...
... the 3 little guys changed their appearrance to look like weeds but light grey in color ...


Hey, you assume they were aliens, maby they were, maby not, animals have good instincts about things and people and since my dog didn't see them as hostile or a threat and i kinda concured, and i was keeping an eye on them, but if you weren't there you can't say i would have done this and that, you simply weren't there.

Seeing things that are as unusual as these little guys i acted caushiously, in retrospect the only thing i should have done i didn't was to try to communicate with them but i was a bit nervous every time i saw them, and as i said they didn't do anything that could be interpreted as hostile.

I can tell you about the "good instincts" about two neighbours and their dogs. One is happy to see any human, burglar, postman, visitors and so on. The other neighbour dog is afraid of everything that is not permanently there (except for its pride), cars, cats, birds, postman, people that walk closer than 50m (165feet), I guess even leafs.
I give nothing to dog instinct.

I'm sure that I would have done this, at the place I live and there is no sign of danger, especially in a "VERY QUIET" place.

You were acting caushiously, don't went close enough to identify them, but through a snowball near them?

I can't belief this story.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Ach, sounds to me like an encounter with "the little people." It is best not mess with them. They have some rather advanced weapons to go along with their cloaking "camoflage" equipment. You might end up like Rip Van Winkle and be out of it for a hundred years.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

Hey Jenae, everything's a big joke to you, isn't it?


And Tread, my dog had good instincts about those things.

JohnDowe.

[The Conquistador]

If Jenae were an alien, I'd let her "anal probe" me.

Animals have very good instincts. They are by nature cautious beings. The only reason some pets are klutzy and curious is because the process of domestication keeps them from experiencing stuff that they would normally learn to fear or be wary of. Kinda like how over bearing parents keep their children sheltered and those kids usually end up having a tough time adjusting to new things.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Hi there.

Hey Jenae, everything's a big joke to you, isn't it?

JohnDowe.
:yes: _____ :no:_____:yes:_____:no:_____:yes:______:no:

No, actually about half joke and half serious there.

I think it is possible that the legends of "the little people" ie. leprachauns, fairies, brownies, etc could be based partly on encounters with non-terrestrial beings.

I for one do not think that UFOs and alien encounters are anything new. There are numerous examples of UFO type images in old artwork that are hard to explain otherwise. Here are some examples.

[Tread]

And Tread, my dog had good instincts about those things.

If you thrust your dog's instinct, I can't understand your behaviour.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

I tought about it and remembered that i went home after the little guys had left, also i didn't go around the fence was because i didn't think it was a good idea was because i wasn't sure what i was dealing with AND that my dog would follow me and then he could then stray or interfeer with the little guys, and they were gone soon after i tought about it, so i probably wouldn't have made it close to them anyway.

JohnDowe.

[Tread]

I tought about it and remembered that i went home after the little guys had left, also i didn't go around the fence was because i didn't think it was a good idea was because i wasn't sure what i was dealing with AND that my dog would follow me and then he could then stray or interfeer with the little guys, and they were gone soon after i tought about it, so i probably wouldn't have made it close to them anyway.

You said you saw them 3 times, how slow do you think?:p You had 96 hours, two little guys sightings and two strange cloud sightings before you saw them the last time.

[الدكتور العراقي]

hello every buddy

your opinions all seems to be logicall! , there may be a life or may be not , I will put the possibilities here about the whole ( ufo ) and life in space generally ! in random order :

1- there is no life but on earth !

2- there is a primitive lives on other planets ( like bacteria or birds >> etc)

3- there is a people like us , know about us but don't have the possibilities to communicate with us , or don't know about our existance at all

4- there is a live , that is very intelligent and very strong , that look to us as an insects or primitive beens and just simply monitor our progress and ignoring us !

5- there is a live , that still trying to find a way to destroy earth !


pick up the idea that you believe in most ... search on google and you will find an evidance - even sometimes weak and illogical - that will support your idea !

[Tread]

Some more possibilities:

6. We are the extraterrestrial life that travelled with a comet or meteor on earth and developed to all existing life.

7. They visit us as gods and teach us, like some views of Egyptians gods.

8. The Aliens live undiscovered on earth.

9. Alien life that uses earth for vacation or hunting.

10. Other plasma-, energy-, antimatter life forms that can't communicate with us.

11. Intelligent life that is not interest in us.

The Sci-Fi geeks may know more.

[tslust]

Some more possibilities:

6. We are the extraterrestrial life that travelled with a comet or meteor on earth and developed to all existing life.

7. They visit us as gods and teach us, like some views of Egyptians gods.

8. The Aliens live undiscovered on earth.

9. Alien life that uses earth for vacation or hunting.

10. Other plasma-, energy-, antimatter life forms that can't communicate with us.

11. Intelligent life that is not interest in us.

The Sci-Fi geeks may know more.I like #9.:respect:

[The Conquistador]

I like #9.:respect:

Predator anyone? As long as Arnold and Danny Glover are around,we have nothing to fear.:yes:

[johndowe]

Hi there.

I saw them 3 times and i had to mind my dog and i kept my eyes on them in between making sure my dog wasn't straying and one time they were there then the next they weren't i have no idea how they came on went, but they didn't stay very long a few minutes, and as i already said, report what to whome? The cops? Hey officer i saw some little grey guys. Hey dude this guy saw some lepricons...

Also, ever see the movie "Dances with wolves" where Kevin Costner's character befreinds a lone wolf by feeding it a bit and using it's sences and INSTINCTS to his advantage?

Any way if you don't believe, don't believe, i described what i saw, maby i hallucinated the whole thing, but a never did hallucinegenics, didn't drink much, and never on those nights, haven't done drugs in years, i don't think there is much to add.

JohnDowe.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

Jenae, you may be many things, but off the cuff witty, not one of them, i was hoping YOU would have ansewered something like this:

Big joke? Did you see your avatar lately? and aren't you the one that's always cracking some one liners filled with rhymes, double entendres, and sarcasm?

Thinking about it later, is not off the cuff!

If i wanted someone to write jokes with you wouldn't be my first choice, nor my tenth, but, if i needed some facts or some statistics, then you'd be my first choice, as the pics on your post attest to.

And don't be offended, i didn't mean this in a bad way, i just meant that everyone is different and has their stong points and their weak points, and it IS a good thing to know where we excel and were we don't.

And that question has been posed to me several times and my ansewer has always been roughly the same:

Life IS a big joke, unfortunately, it isn't always funny.

JohnDowe.

[Tread]

I saw them 3 times and i had to mind my dog and i kept my eyes on them in between making sure my dog wasn't straying and one time they were there then the next they weren't i have no idea how they came on went, but they didn't stay very long a few minutes, and as i already said, report what to whome? The cops? Hey officer i saw some little grey guys. Hey dude this guy saw some lepricons...

I wasn't talking of reporting, but self investigating.
I'm open to strange sightings, but search for a logical explanation, like hundreds of years old and most not believed stories about freak waves or ball-lightning's. It's your behaviour that I don't belief and out of that your story.
I see every night glowing little beings or small clouds that move totally unnatural at the same place, but I never took a minute to walk around the fence to take a closer look.
Every morning I see 50cm (20inch) big humanoid footsteps in my garden, but I never had the effort to watch who made these.
In my pool lives a Plesiosauria that jumps up and catches flying ducks, but I don't care about it, never told one or took a picture.

I don't want to sound mean or rude, but this shows how I see your story.

Also, ever see the movie "Dances with wolves" where Kevin Costner's character befreinds a lone wolf by feeding it a bit and using it's sences and INSTINCTS to his advantage?

No. I don't meant wild wolves, I meant pet dogs, like TheAngryPostman described. But I would never generally say that animals have good instincts. Ever saw someone watch an ant or a snail and heard the person say: WOW! What great instinct it has? Or remember the epic instinct of the Dodo?

[The Conquistador]

Ever saw someone watch an ant or a snail and heard the person say: WOW! What great instinct it has? Or remember the epic instinct of the Dodo?

Remember, these are exceptions, not the norm. Besides, if ants and snails had such horrible instincts they would have been wiped out a long time ago or would have ended up as a frenchmans dinner.

[Tread]

Remember, these are exceptions, not the norm. Besides, if ants and snails had such horrible instincts they would have been wiped out a long time ago or would have ended up as a frenchmans dinner.

Ants are some of the, perhaps the, most successful Animals on earth. A single individual is nothing, a single ant can't do much, the group make them strong. They don't need something like instinct to survive. Same successful collective strategy as bees, wasps, hornets, termites, roaches (in an early state), some crabs and naked mole rats.
A high individual amount, a good shell or stings, chemical weapon or poison, fast reaction (senses not instinct), simple bigness or a good camouflage are other great working strategies to survive.
The most animals of one kind on earth are little crabs that are one component of plankton. Instinct wouldn't help them.

I would say that the biggest animal group (insects) don't have something that could be called instinct.

[Jenae LaTorque]

I would say that the biggest animal group (insects) don’t have something that could be called instinct.

__________________________________________________ _______________

What you say couldn't be more wrong. From the Encyclopedia Britannica:

Natural history » Behaviour » Instincts (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/289249/instinct)

The insect orients itself by responding to the stimuli (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/566439/stimulus-response-behaviour) it receives. Formerly, insect behaviour was described as a series of movements in response to stimuli. That hypothesis has been supplanted by one that holds that the insect has a central nervous system (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/102504/central-nervous-system) with built-in patterns of behaviour or instincts that can be triggered by environmental stimuli. These responses are modified by the insect’s internal state, which has been affected by preceding stimuli. Patterns of behaviour range from comparatively simple reflex (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/495270/reflex) responses (e.g., the avoidance of adverse stimuli, the grasping of a rough surface on contact with the claws) to elaborate behavioral sequences (e.g., searching for mates, courtship, mating, and locating egg laying sites; hunting, capturing, and eating prey). The highest developments of behaviour, found in social insects such as the ants, bees, and termites, are based on the instinct principle.
************************************************** ***************
As far as determining the most successful animal on Earth? No contest. What animal could be found on anyplace on Earth except the extreme depths of the oceans. What animal can create an environment that is totally devoid of other life than that which is contained within himself? What animal can escape the boundries of Earth and travel to another planetary body? What animal is the most adaptive to the most extremes of physical surroundings?
I can guarantee it isn't crabs or ants.

[Tread]

The problem is that instinct hasn't a clear defintion. I was referring to fear or to be aware of danger. I took the meaning of instinct from the mention in this thread:
animals have good instincts about things and people and since my dog didn't see them as hostile or a threat
I should have say this explicit.

You described another meaning of instinct that is correct, but this would exclude the meaning of instinct we are talking here. Because the fear or recognizing danger of dogs or wolves is a learned behaviour and not an automatically, irresistible, occur at some point in development, be triggered by some event in the environment, occur in every member of the species (or castes), be unmodifiable and govern behaviour.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

Ok, Tread, we only seem to disagree, so why don't we agree to disagree?

Cause to me this isn't going anywhere.


JohnDowe.

[Tread]

I agree with you to agree to disagree.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

Message recieved and aknoledged.

JohnDowe.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

The universe is believed to be infinite, so it has no middle, no edge or end.

But the BIG BANG started somewhere, and the stars and planets etc. all originated from that point, and it is, the center of the the universe as starting point of all stellar bodies, so the oldest stars would be farthest from that point (in any and all directions) and the youngest ones would be closest to that point assuming that it is fixed.

And as far as i know we are not at either end of that point, but somewhere in the middle, so there are planets that are older than ours and some younger, the older ones could and probably have evolved life before ours and they would be more advanced than us, and may very well have interstellar capabilities, and they could and probably have visited many other worlds including ours, as we would if we had interstelar capabilities.

But if they are more advanced, they would also hopefully be wiser and avoid direct contact with a younger planet as we would be to them, but they might keep an eye on us and other younger inhabited worlds, thus the UFO phenomenon.

JohnDowe.

[Jenae LaTorque]

.......or maybe someone's science project.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

Well, we have mapped out our DNA, and we are genetically engeneering plants and cloning animals, in a few decades we should be able to create life from scratch, and the possibility of seeding a planet could be someone's science project.


JohnDowe.

[DSL]

Well haven't seen any flying disks or strange objects in the sky yet other then shooting stars ( space junk falling to earth ).
but true they are some life forms out there but not in our reach like about
25,000 to 42,000 light years away in fact our closes galaxy Canis Major Dwarf galaxy may hold some life forms.

WE are not alone!....

[Creedence]

While I believe life may exist in other galaxies I don't believe we experienced a phenomenon like Roswell.

I believe aliens might of been a cover story to keep the Soviet Union off their guard while the US developed new types of aircraft.

I'm not a conspiracy nut either I just think that makes the most sense.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

According to astronomers, there are billions of stars out there, and only this one would have a planet with life on it?

To me it seems almost impossible that we are on the only planet in the universe that can and does have life on it.

There are 3 types of stars, huge ones that are not that bright or warm, there are the small, very bright and very hot ones, both of wich wouldn't be good candidates to support life, but the medium stars, that are medium heat and brightness, like ours, are, even if there are only a few millions of these, some have to have life on them, had life or will have life, because ther is nothing special about this world that would make it much more likely to have life than any other similar planet in a similar solar system, as far as i know anyway.

And also statistically, if something happened once it is likely to happen again and have happened before, of course there is always a first time, and often a last time also.


JohnDowe.

[randolph]

This is part of an interview with Edgar Mitchell, an astronaut who went to the moon. He maintains the Roswell incident was a real UFO and claims a high government official confirmed his view of the event.

"IK: Well first of all thanks very much for making a little time. I wanted to ask you if there was anything about the radio interview you did that was different from what you've said in the past.

EM: No, there's nothing different. Several of (the reports of the interview) that I've seen come around have some flaws in them. Some of the reports pushed it or spun it incorrectly. NASA had nothing to do with anything I've done. I wasn't briefed by NASA. There haven't been any sightings as a result of my flight service there, so if that part of it comes out on anything you've seen it is just totally wrong.

IK: Yes, I did want to clarify that.

EM: My major knowledge comes from what I call the old-timers, people who were at Roswell and subsequent who wanted to clear the things up and tell somebody credible even though they were under severe threats and things -- this was back in the Roswell days. Having gone to the moon and being a local citizen out in the Roswell area some of them thought I would be a safe choice to tell their story to, which they did. Even though the government put real clamps on everybody, it got out anyhow.

Subsequent to that, I did take my story to the Pentagon -- not NASA, but the Pentagon -- and asked for a meeting with the Intelligence Committee of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and got it. And told them my story and what I know and eventually had that confirmed by the admiral that I spoke with, that indeed what I was saying was true.

IK: You mean what had been told to you was true?

EM: Yup, in other words. There was a UFO crash. There was an alien spacecraft. This gentleman tried his damndest to get me in and like so many others in the administration over the last 60 years, since JFK's time, was unable to. He was told 'Admiral, you don't have a need to know, and therefore go get lost,' essentially." :eek:

[The Conquistador]

2 words: Bob Lazar

[violet lightning]

:D If nothing else, it flew nicely...
Goes to show how inventive and mischevious some people are!
Imagine what you might think if you saw that thing silently floating over your house some dark night...

Another totally different kind of UFO...