Transsexuality and religion

[hankhavelock]

This was misplaced in another thread. It belongs here:

The Lord be praised! Find me the place in scripture where Jesus Christ condemned transsexuality...

Don't bother to try to find it...

I'm christian, and I do believe in the good message of Jesus Christ.

Most of my trans*lovers have been muslim, and they claim to believe in the words of Muhammad, peace be upon him.

I've been a nasty missionary and have made more than one little ladyboy cry from frustration of me refusing to accept her muslim faith... and to challenge her theological approach...

As Fey wisely said to me: darling, why do you ALWAYS have to challenge my faith... I'm not a terrorist... why do you dislike muslims that much?

Well, maybe because muslims seem to have a love for killing things... just like right wing Republican Americans...

No, ofcourse Fey was right, and in complete fairness, I've only met completely nice and very non-violent people here in muslim Indonesia. So I've had to take my anti-muslim approach a little bit up for reconsideration. Not that I love the way, but fair is square. And I don't want to be an asshole that makes little muslim ladyboys cry because of my hateful remarks.

I admit that I cannot truly trust Islam - the muslims have too much blood on their hands for me to truly consider that religion particularly peaceful. And my problem is that moderate muslims never REALLY opposed the fanatics enough... they seemed to either ignore them, try to excuse them or silently approve of their actions.

I don't think in all fairness that Islam is particularly "good news" for democracy.

But I don't think Geo Bush was either...

Nasty...

Barack Obama is.

Hanky Panky

[Rambam]

the muslims have too much blood on their hands for me to truly consider that religion particularly peaceful

what about some American presidents with their governments?
They all wanted to be Good Christians, but many of them have been war-monger. And by the way, the Islam has his foundations in the Christian faith

[The Conquistador]

the muslims have too much blood on their hands for me to truly consider that religion particularly peaceful

what about some American presidents with their governments?
They all wanted to be Good Christians, but many of them have been war-monger. And by the way, the Islam has his foundations in the Christian faith

Muslim and Islam are two different things. Muslim has its foumdations in Christianity; Islam doesn't. A true Muslim is peaceful and recognizes Christianity and Judiasm as "Brothers of the Word" aka Holy Scriptues. Get it right.;)

[smc]

Hank wrote this a long time ago, so perhaps he has realized how wrong he is to single out one religion.

I admit that I cannot truly trust Islam - the muslims have too much blood on their hands for me to truly consider that religion particularly peaceful.

Without going into a long discourse on history, one need only consider the Crusades, when Christian military expeditions were launched by the Church. While there is certainly an argument to be made that the Crusades were political imperialism in the guise of religious piety, it is nevertheless the case that they unleashed violence of an order of magnitude that eclipses even what we typically think of as the medieval "standard" (i.e., tremendously brutal).

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

[Rambam]

Muslim and Islam are two different things. Muslim has its foumdations in Christianity; Islam doesn't. A true Muslim is peaceful and recognizes Christianity and Judiasm as "Brothers of the Word" aka Holy Scriptues. Get it right.;)

two different things :eek: who told that shit to you, mate? where do you coming from? USA?
ok ok, then I understand

[The Conquistador]

two different things :eek: who told that shit to you, mate? where do you coming from? USA?
ok ok, then I understand

I take that back. For some reason I was thinking about a chimpanzee riding on a segway when I posted this. My bad. :)

[The Conquistador]

I was distracted by this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp9Gm-aRe5A

Damn Chimps and their Segways!

[The Conquistador]

Although this has very little to do with this thread, I thought I'd post it anyways.









http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/mrmught/jesuszombie_ghostbusters.jpg

[St. Araqiel]

I myself was solicited by a Mormon just about four hours ago.:frown:
Religious solicitors! Every time these people approach me, I think, "Please leave me alone! I've already resigned myself to the fact that I'm going to burn in Hell because I don't go to church and have done gay stuff on Second Life!" What next, some deranged talib al-Islam assaults me in the grocery store with his plastic scimitar?

[twistedone]

BACK OFF!! on the right wing Republican slam will you?

I'm one, and I abhor killing anyone, or anything. Except when it is necessary to preserve life and liberty.



This was misplaced in another thread. It belongs here:

The Lord be praised! Find me the place in scripture where Jesus Christ condemned transsexuality...

Don't bother to try to find it...

I'm christian, and I do believe in the good message of Jesus Christ.

Most of my trans*lovers have been muslim, and they claim to believe in the words of Muhammad, peace be upon him.

I've been a nasty missionary and have made more than one little ladyboy cry from frustration of me refusing to accept her muslim faith... and to challenge her theological approach...

As Fey wisely said to me: darling, why do you ALWAYS have to challenge my faith... I'm not a terrorist... why do you dislike muslims that much?

Well, maybe because muslims seem to have a love for killing things... just like right wing Republican Americans...

No, ofcourse Fey was right, and in complete fairness, I've only met completely nice and very non-violent people here in muslim Indonesia. So I've had to take my anti-muslim approach a little bit up for reconsideration. Not that I love the way, but fair is square. And I don't want to be an asshole that makes little muslim ladyboys cry because of my hateful remarks.

I admit that I cannot truly trust Islam - the muslims have too much blood on their hands for me to truly consider that religion particularly peaceful. And my problem is that moderate muslims never REALLY opposed the fanatics enough... they seemed to either ignore them, try to excuse them or silently approve of their actions.

I don't think in all fairness that Islam is particularly "good news" for democracy.

But I don't think Geo Bush was either...

Nasty...

Barack Obama is.

Hanky Panky

[hankhavelock]

BACK OFF!! on the right wing Republican slam will you?

I'm one, and I abhor killing anyone, or anything. Except when it is necessary to preserve life and liberty.

Why should I "back off", honey? Because you dislike my point? You're welcome to take me on... but please do it with a minimal degree of "good humour" :-)

[cheersm8]

Am I missing something here? What a laughable thread!! What has religion got to do with sexuality? Each is as unimportant to the other as a motor car maintainance manual and a cookery book.
Makes me think of the kind of rubbish I used to see when I used mirc years ago, chat with someone in a cybersex channel and the 1st question they ask you is - 'are you a muslim/hindu/catholic/jew?'
I do feel sort of sorry though, for those people to whom religion has been bashed into their skulls with a big hammer, from such an early age, that it takes priority over EVERYTHING they do.


ps: to hankhavelock - Carry on with your posts, I can see that you are on a perpetual wind up, and like to throw out random bait to the forum and see what you can catch. kind of like fishing, from the comfort of your own living room. :lol: :lol:

[hankhavelock]

ps: to hankhavelock - Carry on with your posts, I can see that you are on a perpetual wind up, and like to throw out random bait to the forum and see what you can catch. kind of like fishing, from the comfort of your own living room. :lol: :lol:

Hehe... it's actually not THAT random... if you check me out you'll find a coherent attact on the ultra right, which I consider one of the ugliest things going on nowadays. You'll also find a close to militant defense of trans*rights.

That's my story, and I stick to it :-) I may be fishing, I may, indeed, be a bit provocative, but I do have a rather strict political and VERY liberal agenda :-)

H

[SluttyShemaleAnna]

Islam and Christianity are both fucked up and dangerous religions, so is Judaism.

And what do you expect when the major prophet that they have in common and each claim to be the originator of thier creed is Abraham, (hence why they are groups as the Abrahamic religions) the guy who was chosen by thier god to deliver his message because of his willingness to murder his own kid.

When the holy man you look up to is a man who was ready to MURDER HIS OWN CHILD, you know you have a fucked up religion.

All I have to say to the followers of all 3 of those religions is your god is an abhorrent joke.

[smc]

I don't begrudge anyone the right to believe in god, or many gods, of whatever sort they want. If you want to put faith before logic, hocus-pocus before material reality, more power to you. Just don't push it on me.

Organized religion is the real problem, because they seek to replicate, on a mass scale, the delusion of believing in some sort of Supreme Being. And they don't do it for benign reasons, but to serve the interests of power structures.

Religion is the opiate of the masses. The rulers love it -- what more could they ask for than for you to believe in the pie-in-the-sky concept that after you die you'll go to a better place, so don't worry too much about this brief sojourn down here. Because if you buy that crap, you're less likely to rise up and throw the rulers out.

And I won't even go into the whole morality issue, and how organized subvert people's understanding of what is and isn't moral, replacing things about sex and gender where what we ought to be concerned about morally are things like poverty and injustice!

[TracyCoxx]

[Bush] has in general made it considerably harder to be a Westener anywhere in the world.


I'm christian, and I do believe in the good message of Jesus Christ.

Most of my trans*lovers have been muslim, and they claim to believe in the words of Muhammad, peace be upon him.

Maybe that's why it's hard for you to live in Indonesia. They see you thumping the bible just as hard as Bush does and so in their eyes they group you in with everything he stands for.

The Lord be praised! Find me the place in scripture where Jesus Christ condemned transsexuality...

Condemned it? He embraced it!

[Bionca]

Am I missing something here? What a laughable thread!! What has religion got to do with sexuality? Each is as unimportant to the other as a motor car maintainance manual and a cookery book.
Makes me think of the kind of rubbish I used to see when I used mirc years ago, chat with someone in a cybersex channel and the 1st question they ask you is - 'are you a muslim/hindu/catholic/jew?'
I do feel sort of sorry though, for those people to whom religion has been bashed into their skulls with a big hammer, from such an early age, that it takes priority over EVERYTHING they do.


ps: to hankhavelock - Carry on with your posts, I can see that you are on a perpetual wind up, and like to throw out random bait to the forum and see what you can catch. kind of like fishing, from the comfort of your own living room. :lol: :lol:

Unfortunately, it is religion that is used as justification for or the root behind so many of the issues that Trans* folks have to deal with. Religion, particularly the political and cultural influences of Christianity and Islam in the history of the world wrt Trans and gay people is a very valid topic.

Lets look at Thailand - Kathoey: an ancient understanding that some boys are really a "third gender". Before colonization by Christian Europeans they had a standing in society and place within their communities. Then came "crimes against nature" ala Christian missionaries and their political counterparts the Colonial Governors. Suddenly, while socially accepted, they kathoey were/are highly discriminated against legally with the resulting prejudices that invariably trickle down to the social level. Even more drastic is the Hijra in India and more pronounced still is the near erasure of two-spirit people among Native Americans.

[TracyCoxx]

Islam and Christianity are both fucked up and dangerous religions, so is Judaism.
I thought they were all fucked up??

[The Conquistador]

Everyone knows that it's all about the Jews and here's why:



























































http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/mrmught/newhebrewpintsexample-l.jpg

[cheersm8]

Unfortunately, it is religion that is used as justification for or the root behind so many of the issues that Trans* folks have to deal with. Religion, particularly the political and cultural influences of Christianity and Islam in the history of the world wrt Trans and gay people is a very valid topic.

Lets look at Thailand - Kathoey: an ancient understanding that some boys are really a "third gender". Before colonization by Christian Europeans they had a standing in society and place within their communities. Then came "crimes against nature" ala Christian missionaries and their political counterparts the Colonial Governors. Suddenly, while socially accepted, they kathoey were/are highly discriminated against legally with the resulting prejudices that invariably trickle down to the social level. Even more drastic is the Hijra in India and more pronounced still is the near erasure of two-spirit people among Native Americans.


Thanks for the reply Bionca, and I fully understand and sympathise with the points that you have made.
Maybe I did not phrase my original post correctly. My response was on a personal level, not a political one. For me, if I fancy someone, whether they be male, female, trans, or even 'unclassified' then that individuals religous beliefs and/or background, don't mean a thing to me. I simply have not allowed religion to be a deciding factor in my life in any way.

[Reslemock]

I am not in religion at all I always thought that religion, no matter what faith, was made for one single porpuse, the control of people through the fear of something that it can be see, touch or hear.

[Mel Asher]

Am I missing something here? What a laughable thread!! What has religion got to do with sexuality? Each is as unimportant to the other as a motor car maintainance manual and a cookery book.
Makes me think of the kind of rubbish I used to see when I used mirc years ago, chat with someone in a cybersex channel and the 1st question they ask you is - 'are you a muslim/hindu/catholic/jew?'
I do feel sort of sorry though, for those people to whom religion has been bashed into their skulls with a big hammer, from such an early age, that it takes priority over EVERYTHING they do.


ps: to hankhavelock - Carry on with your posts, I can see that you are on a perpetual wind up, and like to throw out random bait to the forum and see what you can catch. kind of like fishing, from the comfort of your own living room. :lol: :lol:

Religion has always laid claim to be the authority on any natural process or phenomenon in order to reinforce its power base and hold over adherents.

I had a strictly ' religious ' upbringing, but the secular education process enabled me to have a broader perspective on the many of the values that various religions lay claim to. At the end of the day, and without wanting to give offence to fellow forum members, while Religion appears to be a need fundamental to the human condition ( Karl Marx, excepted ), for the most part religions appear to be ill-conceived synthetic constructs, heavily flawed by many philosphical processes.

Worship should come from within.

:respect: and if that gives you a :turnon:, why then, bless you !

[liesjeversteven]

I don't want to step on sensitive toes here, but EVERY religion is dangerous! Be it Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, right wing republicanism, or whatever, they all have one thing in common: they are all convinced they have a monopoly on the truth, and that is one of the most dangerous things in the world.

[jdawg]

Every religion has blood on its hands. I'm not sure why Islam is singled out since Israel uses Judaism to justify it's power, and Rome was dominated by the Church, and the US killed people for believing in Communism while the presidents were claiming to be good christians etc etc.



All religions have the potential to be violent and all religions have reached this potential to the fullest. To single out one is to be dishonest about your own religion.

[Tread]

Does anyone know anything bad or dangerous about Buddhism?

[Jenae LaTorque]

At first thought, I said to myself, "There is no connection between the two."

Then I thought about the similarities. Both are a belief system for which there is no hard evidence. Both have divisions among their believers where some believe one thing, while others believe something else. Sometimes the differances are minor, sometimes not. Both are clouded by ignorance and uncertainty. Both have the possibility of great love on one hand, and great hatred, even killing, on the other hand. Both can be a great shaper of lives, both for the better, or, sometimes for the worst.

What it finally boils down to in the final analysis is that both are perhaps simply creations of the human mind. And since the mind differs from one individual to another, so our belief systems must differ. Of course man is a societal animals so a need to belong also shapes our beliefs. And then there has to be an accomadation between differant facets of an individuals beliefs (truths?) so it is interesting to see the ways this plays out among people of differant cultures, places, history, etc.

I have seen theories about both of these behavior patterns being based on something physical in our makeup but nothing that has convinced me yet. My personal feeling about both of these is simple; no harm - no foul

As long as you follow your own beliefs and do not present a danger to myself then I say "live and let live". However, If you cross the line and my well being is threatened, then my survival belief system will kick in.

Also, for the record. I do not believe in the existance of any type of God as manifested by the religions of this world.

[liesjeversteven]

Does anyone know anything bad or dangerous about Buddhism?

Well, here's a nice article about it:

http://www.sangam.org/articles/view/?id=118

[TheSkronkDonkey]

Superstition is gussied up fear and religion is gussied up superstition. Much art and beauty has emerged from religious thought and religious belief, but that still doesn't change the fact that religion is nothing more than the enshrinement and elevation of ignorance to the detriment and abandonment of logic, rationality, empiricism and true ethics. The need is human, the transgression is human, the perceived patterns of divinity are human-made -- on this basis, and only this basis, religion commands respect. However ...

If something divine exists, it must surely exist beyond all patterns. Time and again, human beings have made gross errors of judgment, founded on fear, fostered by ignorance, from believing that epilepsy was a sign of divine madness, to the Earth being at the centre of the universe, to comets being flaming swords, beards, jars, chariots, even the sum of all human sins, to deformity and disease a sign of a god's wrath or proof of evil spirits, to the idea that the universe emerged in a puff of smoke or that everything was created in six thousand years, that planets were birthed before stars, that plants functioned without sunlight and so on.

In the past 500 years, especially the last 150, science has made religion look like the colossally flawed interpretation of reality that it is. And it has done this not by attacking religion, but ignoring its tenets and sticking to its own, discovering things that no-one in their wildest imaginings could have believed. Science shames human imagination and makes us look like the feeble, dull-minded, dull-sensing species we are. Apart from by maintaining a bizarre, dissonant and downright solipsistic state of mind, I fail to see how anyone who is truly familiar with the progress of knowledge -- HOW it's been acquired and WHAT has been acquired -- just in the past few centuries could possibly maintain sincere faith in any system that requires belief in anything but evidence.

With science, we can determine what is sensible and what is not, we can improve and grow, we can build better technology, better societies, better ways of living, and a road to the stars; with religion, we lock ourselves away from the world, from its beauty and its horror, from the true scope of human suffering, from the true nature of what being human is, has been, will be and could be.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Superstition is gussied ........

///

............, has been, will be and could be.

Did you write this yourself? If so, I am impressed. This is a very well put, coherant, statement of your position; something that is very rare on this forum.

This would make a nice preface to my 1st question to the Postal guy on his ask me thread.

[TheSkronkDonkey]

Did you write this yourself? If so, I am impressed. This is a very well put, coherant, statement of your position; something that is very rare on this forum.

Wow! Thank you very much, Jenae! Yes, I write everything from scratch, unless otherwise indicated.

This would make a nice preface to my 1st question to the Postal guy on his ask me thread.

LOL! I don't know about that, but I'm sorry we have locked horns in your other thread. Although the impression I have given might be the opposite, I have actually been enjoying your thread, apart from the thing I chose to quibble. Our disagreement aside, you're eloquent, witty and very smart -- which, I have learned these past few years, is a mix of qualities that's a lot rarer than it should be.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Does anyone know anything bad or dangerous about Buddhism?
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Didn't buddha himself state something like. "there is no God, there are no miracles, water does not run uphill"

I always thought it was quite ironic for him to say that and then after he is dead, they make him God and start worshipping him.

[Tread]

I don't know much about Buddhism, that's why I asked the question, and liesjeversteven gave a good answer.
But I think there was several Buddha's, and none of them is a god for anyone. They worship him for sagacity and breaking thru the circle of life (normal would be reincarnation and life goes on and on).

Buddhism is the only big religion that is not totally based on once spoken words. I think Buddha said something like that: always think by yourself and to question teachings.

And it's totally against hating and very tolerant. As long as you are not a cause of affliction everything is fine. It's the own religion that allows to belief in other religions while being Buddhist.

[randolph]

Superstition is gussied up fear and religion is gussied up superstition. Much art and beauty has emerged from religious thought and religious belief, but that still doesn't change the fact that religion is nothing more than the enshrinement and elevation of ignorance to the detriment and abandonment of logic, rationality, empiricism and true ethics. The need is human, the transgression is human, the perceived patterns of divinity are human-made -- on this basis, and only this basis, religion commands respect. However ...

If something divine exists, it must surely exist beyond all patterns. Time and again, human beings have made gross errors of judgment, founded on fear, fostered by ignorance, from believing that epilepsy was a sign of divine madness, to the Earth being at the centre of the universe, to comets being flaming swords, beards, jars, chariots, even the sum of all human sins, to deformity and disease a sign of a god's wrath or proof of evil spirits, to the idea that the universe emerged in a puff of smoke or that everything was created in six thousand years, that planets were birthed before stars, that plants functioned without sunlight and so on.

In the past 500 years, especially the last 150, science has made religion look like the colossally flawed interpretation of reality that it is. And it has done this not by attacking religion, but ignoring its tenets and sticking to its own, discovering things that no-one in their wildest imaginings could have believed. Science shames human imagination and makes us look like the feeble, dull-minded, dull-sensing species we are. Apart from by maintaining a bizarre, dissonant and downright solipsistic state of mind, I fail to see how anyone who is truly familiar with the progress of knowledge -- HOW it's been acquired and WHAT has been acquired -- just in the past few centuries could possibly maintain sincere faith in any system that requires belief in anything but evidence.

With science, we can determine what is sensible and what is not, we can improve and grow, we can build better technology, better societies, better ways of living, and a road to the stars; with religion, we lock ourselves away from the world, from its beauty and its horror, from the true scope of human suffering, from the true nature of what being human is, has been, will be and could be.

An excellent post, very articulate. Science could be the salvation of humanity except for the fact that humans are not rational. They are driven by instincts, desires and of course the ego. Even scientists often behave irrationally. Unfortunately their research is sometimes influenced by politics and personal desires. I know, I was in University research for many years. Controlling the ego would be the first step in developing a rational society. In a following post, I would like to open for discussion an ancient Indian philosophy that deals with the ego and also transsexuality.
Its called Tantra.

[randolph]

Tantra
I also would like to put in my two cents worth. Indian mysticism and especially the philosophy Tantric yoga has significance for transsexuals. In Tantric yoga there is a God "Siva" and a Goddess "Parvati". Tantric adepts "worshipers" believe that Siva is inert until Parvati merges with him in sexual union. Parvati possesses the energy that enables Siva to create the universe. Some Tantric sects worship the transsexual aspect of this union and create statues representing this union as half male and half female, in other words transsexual.
Tantric philosophy reveals that the female energy of the Goddess is suppressed in males. In the male human, the ego actively suppresses the female spirit within, in order to maintain male ego dominance. This female energy can be activated and transcend the male ego by meditation and worshiping the Goddess (called kundalini in India). This energy rises from the base of the spine and can produces very powerful self awareness "enlightenment" if you will, with a feeling of bonding with the universe.
I suspect that male hostility directed toward transsexuals has something to do with the basic insecurity the male ego has toward females and especially toward males transcending into females. They know subconsciously that males are psychically inferior to females and their ego dominance is threatened. This is an extremely brief presentation of Tantric yoga and may not make much sense but I know from personal experience that it works. I am a straight male and Tantric yoga has made my relationship with women much easier. Sometime, I would like to know how well I could get along with a tgirl.

[TheSkronkDonkey]

I think there was several Buddha's, and none of them is a god for anyone.

They worship him for ...

The first banana is your former statement, the one butt-fucking it is the latter.

:coupling:

Buddhism is the only big religion that is not totally based on once spoken words. I think Buddha said something like that: always think by yourself and to question teachings.

And it's totally against hating and very tolerant. As long as you are not a cause of affliction everything is fine. It's the own religion that allows to belief in other religions while being Buddhist.

Yes, some of the ideas in religion are quite beautiful. Others, however, are quite horrid. And anything beautiful can easily be made horrible if it is never questioned -- which is religion in a nutshell.

An excellent post, very articulate.

My thanks. :)

Science could be the salvation of humanity except for the fact that humans are not rational.

I'm not sure science could ever be our salvation, but it's the best system we've ever developed, and the most logical and humanising one of all.

They are driven by instincts, desires and of course the ego. Even scientists often behave irrationally. Unfortunately their research is sometimes influenced by politics and personal desires.

Very true. Scientists are human. To err is to be human.

Controlling the ego would be the first step in developing a rational society.

It would be a very important and essential step.

In a following post, I would like to open for discussion an ancient Indian philosophy that deals with the ego and also transsexuality.
Its called Tantra.

From my perspective, the way to do it is through critical thinking -- which is the opposite of religious dogma, on multiple levels.

Tantra
I also would like to put in my two cents worth. Indian mysticism and especially the philosophy Tantric yoga has significance for transsexuals. In Tantric yoga there is a God "Siva" and a Goddess "Parvati". Tantric adepts "worshipers" believe that Siva is inert until Parvati merges with him in sexual union. Parvati possesses the energy that enables Siva to create the universe. Some Tantric sects worship the transsexual aspect of this union and create statues representing this union as half male and half female, in other words transsexual.
Tantric philosophy reveals that the female energy of the Goddess is suppressed in males. In the male human, the ego actively suppresses the female spirit within, in order to maintain male ego dominance. This female energy can be activated and transcend the male ego by meditation and worshiping the Goddess (called kundalini in India). This energy rises from the base of the spine and can produces very powerful self awareness "enlightenment" if you will, with a feeling of bonding with the universe.
I suspect that male hostility directed toward transsexuals has something to do with the basic insecurity the male ego has toward females and especially toward males transcending into females. They know subconsciously that males are psychically inferior to females and their ego dominance is threatened. This is an extremely brief presentation of Tantric yoga and may not make much sense but I know from personal experience that it works. I am a straight male and Tantric yoga has made my relationship with women much easier. Sometime, I would like to know how well I could get along with a tgirl.

A very nice post. You seem like a mature and sensitive person. That said, I choose evolutionary psychology (and other branches and academic disciplines), not the ways of Tantra. Science, not religion.

[randolph]

The first banana is your former statement, the one butt-fucking it is the latter.

:coupling:



Yes, some of the ideas in religion are quite beautiful. Others, however, are quite horrid. And anything beautiful can easily be made horrible if it is never questioned -- which is religion in a nutshell.



My thanks. :)



I'm not sure science could ever be our salvation, but it's the best system we've ever developed, and the most logical and humanising one of all.



Very true. Scientists are human. To err is to be human.



It would be a very important and essential step.



From my perspective, the way to do it is through critical thinking -- which is the opposite of religious dogma, on multiple levels.



A very nice post. You seem like a mature and sensitive person. That said, I choose evolutionary psychology (and other branches and academic disciplines), not the ways of Tantra. Science, not religion.

Thanks for the positive response. I agree that evolutionary psychology is basic to understanding how the brain works. I view Tantra not as a religion but as a way of "adjusting" the mind. Eckard Tolle is another way on this path. A number scientists have been impressed with Tantra/Hindu wisdom including Schrodinger and Oppenheimer.
Oppenheimer's comments and thoughts after the first bomb test
"Oppenheimer later recalled that, while witnessing the explosion, he thought of a verse from the Hindu holy book, the Bhagavad Gita:
" If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the mighty one... "
"Years later he would explain that another verse had also entered his head at that time: namely, the famous verse; "Kalo Asmi Loka-ksaya-krit Pravardho, Lokan Samartum iha Pravattah"[47] and was quoted by Oppenheimer after the successful detonation of the first nuclear weapon. He translated it as "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

[TheSkronkDonkey]

Thanks for the positive response.

No problem.

I think people can converse with respect, from time to time. :)

I agree that evolutionary psychology is basic to understanding how the brain works. I view Tantra not as a religion but as a way of "adjusting" the mind.

Well, every system is steeped in some degree of truth -- but it depends on the system (and the individual's interpretation of the system and what comes out of it).

Eckard Tolle is another way on this path. A number scientists have been impressed with Tantra/Hindu wisdom including Schrodinger and Oppenheimer.
Oppenheimer's comments and thoughts after the first bomb test
"Oppenheimer later recalled that, while witnessing the explosion, he thought of a verse from the Hindu holy book, the Bhagavad Gita:
" If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the mighty one... "
"Years later he would explain that another verse had also entered his head at that time: namely, the famous verse; "Kalo Asmi Loka-ksaya-krit Pravardho, Lokan Samartum iha Pravattah"[47] and was quoted by Oppenheimer after the successful detonation of the first nuclear weapon. He translated it as "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

When you look at these comments ...... what is actually being said?

That humanity has raised itself up to the level of a god with our scientific breakthroughs and our technology, so we had better develop equally great levels of compassion and wisdom to go with them. The citations are very powerful and very apt.

[Tread]

The first banana is your former statement, the one butt-fucking it is the latter.

I think there was several Buddha's, and none of them is a god for anyone.

They worship him for ...

:coupling:

Yes, stupid dictionary:innocent:. I meant admire, idolize, or something like that. Not the god like.

[CMJ]

I myself was solicited by a Mormon just about four hours ago.

I had some Mormons come to my door a few months ago too. I'm an atheist so when they started in on talking about Jesus, I was like "look dude, I'm gonna save you some time. I'm an atheist and don't believe in god. That's cool that you're doing that but I'm not interested".

the guy was like "why don't you believe in god?" and I was like "because it's not logical". The guys were nice but I told them I really wasn't interested and they were cool about it. Then I went and got a haircut. haha.