Barack Obama

[randolph]

TRACY:

So, Roberts' flub caused Obama to flub, which brings Obama's citizenship and motives into question? Any reasonable person would agree with you that Obama needs to be questioned, because it's so obvious?

TAL

Hey TAL. Don't you think someone is jerking your chain?

[The Conquistador]

It needs a bailout!

http://finance.yahoo.com/focus-retirement/article/108747/next-in-line-for-a-bailout-social-security?mod=fidelity-readytoretire



Don't look now. But even as the bank bailout is winding down, another huge bailout is starting, this time for the Social Security system.

A report from the Congressional Budget Office shows that for the first time in 25 years, Social Security is taking in less in taxes than it is spending on benefits.

Instead of helping to finance the rest of the government, as it has done for decades, our nation's biggest social program needs help from the Treasury to keep benefit checks from bouncing -- in other words, a taxpayer bailout.



All that money that was deducted from your paycheck for Social Security was spent the moment it came out; and now the Fed needs you to bailout their reckless spending habits!

[The Conquistador]

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/60932


Transcript of video:

FIRST FRAME:

?The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined.?
--James Madison
Federalist No. 45

SECOND FRAME:

The health care bills approved by the House and Senate both mandate that individuals buy health insurance. Congress has never before ordered Americans to buy anything.

THIRD FRAME:

?The government has never required people to buy any good or service as a condition of lawful residence in the United States.?
--Congressional Budget Office Memorandum, August 1994

FOURTH FRAME:

Sen. Orrin Hatch (R.-Utah): ?If that is held constitutional--for them to be able to tell us we have to purchase health insurance--then there is literally nothing that the federal government can?t force us to do. Nothing.?

FIFTH FRAME:

CNSNews.com asked Members of Congress: Where does the Constitution authorize Congress to force individuals buy health insurance?

SIXTH FRAME:

Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy (D.-Vt.)
CNSNews.com: "Where, in your opinion, does the Constitution give specific authority for Congress to give an individual mandate for health insurance?"

Leahy: "We have plenty of authority. Are you saying there is no authority?"

CNSNews.com: "I?m asking--"

Leahy: "Why would you say there is no authority? I mean, there?s no question there?s authority. Nobody questions that."

SEVENTH FRAME:

House Speaker Pelosi Nancy Pelosi (D.-Calif.)
CNSNews.com: ?Madam Speaker, where specifically does the Constitution grant Congress the authority to enact an individual health insurance mandate??

Pelosi: ?Are you serious? Are you serious??

EIGHTH FRAME:

Sen. Mark Warner (D.-Va.)
?There is no place in the competition, in the Constitution, there is no place in the Constitution, there is no place in the Constitution, there is no place in the Constitution, there is no place in the Constitution that talks about you ought to have the right to get a telephone, but we have made those choices as a country over the years.?

CNSNews.com: ?Does the Constitution give Congress the authority to mandate whether individuals should purchase health insurance ? to mandate that they have to purchase health insurance??
Warner: ?The United States Congress passed laws regarding Medicare and Medicaid that became de facto mandatory programs. States all the time require people to have driver?s licenses. I think that this is a bit of a spurious argument that?s being made by some folks.?

NINTH FRAME:

Sen. Bob Casey (D.-Pa.)
CNSNews.com: ?Where does the Constitution give Congress that authority, for an individual health care mandate??

Casey: ?Well, I don?t know if there?s a specific constitutional provision.

TENTH FRAME:

Sen. Daniel Akaka (D.-Hawaii)
CNSNews.com: ?Does the United States Constitution give the United States Congress the authority to mandate individuals to have health insurance, to carry health insurance?

Akaka: ?I?m not aware of that--let me put it that way. ?

CNSNews.com: ?Is there any specific area of the Constitution that would give Congress the authority to be able to mandate individuals to have to purchase health insurance??

Senator Akaka: ?Not in particular with health insurance. It?s not covered in that respect.

ELEVENTH FRAME:

Sen. Roland Burris (D.-Ill.)
CNSNews.com: ?Federally, if you look at it from a federal standpoint, what area specifically of the Constitution would give Congress the power to mandate an individual to have health insurance??

Senator Burris: ?Well, that?s under certainly the laws of the--protect the health, welfare of the country. That?s under the Constitution. We?re not even dealing with any constitutionality here. Should we move in that direction? What does the Constitution say? To provide for the health, welfare and the defense of the country.?

TWELFTH FRAME:

Sen. Jack Reed (D.-R.I.)
CNSNews.com: ?Specifically where in the Constitution does Congress get its authority to mandate that individuals purchase health insurance??

Reed: ?Let me see. I would have to check the specific sections. So, I?ll have to get back to you on the specific section. But it is not unusual that the Congress has required individuals to do things, like sign up for the draft.

THIRTEENTH FRAME:

Sen. Bernard Sanders (I.-Vt.)
CNSNews.com: ?Where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority for a health insurance mandate??

Sanders: ?Where in the Constitution? Probably the same place that comes Medicare and Medicaid and the CHIP Program and the Veterans Administration, and the health care programs that we?ve been doing for many, many decades.?

FOURTEENTH FRAME:

Sen. Sherrod Brown (D.-Ohio)
CNSNews.com: ?Where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority for an individual health care mandate??

Brown: ?The same part of the Constitution that allows us to have Medicare. When I hear people that think this is a constitutional issue, my first question to them is, ?Do you want to repeal Medicare?? And some people, politically, are so extreme in this country that they want to repeal Medicare, and I think they?re dead wrong.?

FIFTEENTH FRAME:

Sen. Claire McCaskill (D.-Mo.)
CNSNews.com: ?Specifically where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority to mandate that individuals buy health insurance??

McCaskill: ?Well the -- we have all kinds of places where the government has gotten involved with health care and mandating insurance. In most states, the government mandates the buying of car insurance, and I can assure everyone that if anything in this bill is unconstitutional, the Supreme Court will weigh in.?

SIXTEENTH FRAME:

Sen. Jeff Merkley (D.-Ore.)
CNSNews.com: ?Specifically, where in the Constitution does Congress get its authority to mandate that individuals purchase health care??

Merkley: ?The very first enumerated power is power to provide for the common defense and the general welfare. So it?s right on, right on the front end.?

CNSNews.com: ?Okay, if that?s the case--?

Press Secretary: ?Thank you. I?m sorry, we have to get going. Thank you.?

SEVENTEENTH FRAME:

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D.-Calif.)
CNSNews.com: ?Where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority for an individual health insurance mandate??

Feinstein: ?Well, I would assume it would be in the Commerce clause of the Constitution. That?s how Congress legislates all kinds of various programs.?

EIGHTEENTH FRAME:

Sen. Kent Conrad (D.-N.D.)
CNSNews.com: ?Could you specifically say where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority to mandate that individuals get health insurance??

Conrad: ?No, but I?ll refer you to the legal counsel for the Senate and they?re the ones that lead there as the full legal basis for the individual mandate--and I assume it?s in the Commerce clause.?

NINETEENTH FRAME:

Sen. Mary Landrieu (D.-La.)
CNSNews.com: ? What part of the Constitution do you think gives Congress the authority to mandate that individuals have to purchase health insurance??

Landrieu: ?Well, we?re very lucky as members of the Senate to have constitutional lawyers on our staff, so I?ll let them answer that.

TWENTIETH FRAME:

Sen. Ben Nelson (D.-Neb.)
CNSNews.com: ?Specifically, where in the Constitution does Congress get its authority to mandate that individuals purchase health insurance??

Nelson: ?Well, you know, I don?t know that I?m a constitutional scholar. So, I, I?m not going to be able to answer that question.?

TWENTY-FIRST FRAME:

Sen. Richard Lugar (R.-Ind.)
CNSNews.com: ?Where does Congress find the authority to mandate that people buy health insurance??

Lugar: ?I don?t have any idea

TWENTY-SECOND FRAME:

Sen. John McCain (R.-Ariz.)
CNSNews.com: "Senator, on the health care issue, where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority to mandate that individuals get healthcare?"

McCain: "That is an excellent question, and I?m sure that if they pass health care legislation, I think there would be a challenge.?

[Talvenada]

Hey TAL. Don't you think someone is jerking your chain?

RANDY:

NO!! Conse 'Pubs call it political debate, and in this case Tracy feels it's a matter of equal opinions. The other type of debate is an honest debate. In a political debate evolution vs. creationism are equal opinions.

In their thinking there is NOTHING Obama can do to prove otherwise unless he meets each one in person to hand them an original of his birth certificate, and mark my words this issue will not go away until he leaves The WH--maybe, not even then.

39% of Conse 'Pubs feel that Obama is not an American, and an additional 29% are not sure. That's 68%! These are the people who cannot believe that Bush 43 was questioned.

Notice the recent use of the word r-ded once by R. Emanuel. Palin called for his resignation as the only way for the apology to mean anything, but Limbaugh uses the more offensive r-ard SIX times. That however is repeating Emanuel which is okay, and/or an affront to being to PC, which is more than okay.

TAL

[Talvenada]

[QUOTE=TracyCoxx;131281]Yeah it was Roberts who flubbed it, but it caused BO to flub it as well, which is why he redid it. My point remains.

QUOTE]

TRACY:

Randy doesn't think you're being serious.

Set him straight.

TAL

[randolph]

RANDY:

NO!! Conse 'Pubs call it political debate, and in this case Tracy feels it's a matter of equal opinions. The other type of debate is an honest debate. In a political debate evolution vs. creationism are equal opinions.

In their thinking there is NOTHING Obama can do to prove otherwise unless he meets each one in person to hand them an original of his birth certificate, and mark my words this issue will not go away until he leaves The WH--maybe, not even then.

39% of Conse 'Pubs feel that Obama is not an American, and an additional 29% are not sure. That's 68%! These are the people who cannot believe that Bush 43 was questioned.


Notice the recent use of the word r-ded once by R. Emanuel. Palin called for his resignation as the only way for the apology to mean anything, but Limbaugh uses the more offensive r-ard SIX times. That however is repeating Emanuel which is okay, and/or an affront to being to PC, which is more than okay.

TAL

I think this whole issue of the birth certificate is nothing more than egregious racism.:censored:

[TracyCoxx]

Is Obama deliberately ruining the country?I've wondered that. Because after seeing what he's doing, he's either a complete moron or he's doing on it purpose. Trying to stay on that narrow line where he does the most damage, yet keeps from being impeached.

Before taking office he didn't mince words. He said he was going to fundamentally change America. Also that he wanted to spread the wealth around. He appointed communist revolutionaries as his czars.

He said under his plan for cap & trade, electricity rates would sky rocket. Gee, do you think that's wise to do when we were approaching 10% unemployment and the national debt was skyrocketing? This is either a stupid move or the policy of someone trying to ruin the country.

Have you heard of the Apollo Alliance? They combine environmental policy with labor and social justice. It's run by a self professed communist (although I'm sure that word isn't offensive to you guys). Van Jones was one of the founding members of Apollo. The founder of the corrupt organization, ACORN is also funding Apollo. Jeff Jones, one of the founders of the terrorist group Weather Underground was on the run for about a decade and then caught by the feds. After he got out of prison he now chairs the Apollo Alliance. The Apollo Alliance is a scary group of shady characters, ex-cons, and corrupt organizations. Why then would Obama and Harry Reid have the Apollo Alliance write much of the stimulus package?

When the country is undergoing financial crisis, which ACORN lobbied heavily for its major cause, only an idiot, or someone wanting to ruin the economy would tack on another several $trillion in debt not just last year, but each year following. All this is putting the credit rating of the US in danger. The federal debt limit was just raised almost 100% with Obama's 2010 budget, to $14.3 trillion vs. $7.8 trillion in 2005. The Congressional Budget Office predicts future deficits around 4% through 2020. Get it? America's debt at 84% of GDP will soon pass that toxic 90% trigger point. Right now interest rates are being held artificially low. But eventually, probably before the end of BO's term, the government will have to raise interest rates at least 25% to recoup the money it printed. Don't say I didn't warn you... have your credit cards paid off!

Columbia University sociologists Richard Andrew Cloward and his wife Frances Fox Piven said the best way to bring about the change they sought was to get everyone on welfare, so that the system would eventually collapse under its own weight. The "Cloward-Piven Strategy" seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse. This is a way to change the country, not with revolutionary change, but evolutionary change. The end goal is the same though. A very strong case could be made that the radicals in the Obama administration, including the radical himself, are following the Cloward-Piven playbook to "Fundamentally change America".

[TracyCoxx]

So, Roberts' flub caused Obama to flub, which brings Obama's citizenship and motives into question? Any reasonable person would agree with you that Obama needs to be questioned, because it's so obvious?

Try and follow along. I used the oath of office as an example that BO doesn't want any questions about the validity of his presidency. So why wouldn't he show his birth certificate for the same reason, especially since he wasn't even required to redo the oath of office.

In their thinking there is NOTHING Obama can do to prove otherwise unless he meets each one in person to hand them an original of his birth certificate, and mark my words this issue will not go away until he leaves The WH--maybe, not even then.I don't feel that way, and I doubt most other conservatives feel that way.

Notice the recent use of the word r-ded once by R. Emanuel. Palin called for his resignation as the only way for the apology to mean anything, but Limbaugh uses the more offensive r-tard SIX times. That however is repeating Emanuel which is okay, and/or an affront to being to PC, which is more than okay.Well Palin is wrong. She's letting her emotions about her retard child get in the way of policy. Political correctness is the problem, not freedom of speech.

I think this whole issue of the birth certificate is nothing more than egregious racism.:censored:Randolf, why is that racism? This should be standard procedure for ANY presidential candidate.

[Talvenada]

TRACY:

I'm not going to even read posts that sound like a certain show.

TAL

[Talvenada]

Try and follow along. I used the oath of office as an example that BO doesn't want any questions about the validity of his presidency. So why wouldn't he show his birth certificate for the same reason, especially since he wasn't even required to redo the oath of office.

I don't feel that way, and I doubt most other conservatives feel that way.


Randolf, why is that racism? This should be standard procedure for ANY presidential candidate.

RANDY:

Obama had shown his birth certificate long ago, but here it is 6 to 9 months later, and Conse 'Pubs still want to see the BC. How Hillary & McCain didn't go after this indicates that we can only trust a Conse 'Pub in The WH, no?

I've seen a Conse 'Pub on TV hold the BC in his hand, and not change his tune for even 1 second. So, I say again there is NOTHING Obama can do that they will accept. They will continue to claim they only want to see his BC, because they want to reach the uninformed with fuzzy logic. It's a political debate, which means Obama is not an American is an EQUAL opinion.


TAL

[randolph]

Try and follow along. I used the oath of office as an example that BO doesn't want any questions about the validity of his presidency. So why wouldn't he show his birth certificate for the same reason, especially since he wasn't even required to redo the oath of office.

I don't feel that way, and I doubt most other conservatives feel that way.

Well Palin is wrong. She's letting her emotions about her retard child get in the way of policy. Political correctness is the problem, not freedom of speech.

Randolf, why is that racism? This should be standard procedure for ANY presidential candidate.

Log into factcheck.org, photos of the birth certificate are there with interviews of the officials in charge of the birth records in Hawaii, who say this whole controversy is ridiculous. Attached is a photo showing the embossed stamp on his birth certificate. Right wing agitators will do anything to stir up trouble.

[TracyCoxx]

Log into factcheck.org, photos of the birth certificate are there with interviews of the officials in charge of the birth records in Hawaii, who say this whole controversy is ridiculous. Attached is a photo showing the embossed stamp on his birth certificate. Right wing agitators will do anything to stir up trouble.

Yeah, I've got one of those too...

[TracyCoxx]

I'm not going to even read posts that sound like a certain show.I use more than one source for my info. And I understand if you want to take any excuse you can to try and blow it off rather than address it.

[Talvenada]

I use more than one source for my info. And I understand if you want to take any excuse you can to try and blow it off rather than address it.

TRACY:

Yes, you have other sources besides Glenn Beck.

Beck says he's a commie, Nazi, and the whole admin. is filled with commies.

Coulter says he's deliberately ruining the country.

Limbaugh says he caused the economy to fail on 9/08.

Hannity says the town hallers were little old ladies.

Levin says he wants to take our money and give it to inner city scum.

So, you want me to offer a counter opinion to Obama in the above accusations that are presented as fact?

TAL

[Talvenada]

Yeah, I've got one of those too...



RANDY:

Now do you understand that nothing is good enough!!


TAL

[TracyCoxx]

Beck says he's a commie, Nazi, and the whole admin. is filled with commies.
Here's what his administration is made of:
Van Jones - http://www.eastbayexpress.com/gyroba...wFullText=true
"Jones had planned to move to Washington, DC, and had already landed a job and an apartment there. But in jail, he said, "I met all these young radical people of color -- I mean really radical, communists and anarchists. And it was, like, 'This is what I need to be a part of.'" Although he already had a plane ticket, he decided to stay in San Francisco. "I spent the next ten years of my life working with a lot of those people I met in jail, trying to be a revolutionary." In the months that followed, he let go of any lingering thoughts that he might fit in with the status quo. "I was a rowdy nationalist on April 28th, and then the verdicts came down on April 29th," he said. "By August, I was a communist.""

- John Holdren, science "czar" - proposed "compulsory sterilization" and forced abortions to control population.

- Cass Sunstein, regulatory "czar" - proposed bans on hunting and eating meat and proposed that your dog to be allowed to have an attorney in court. And a fairness doctrine for the Internet, which he has since stepped away from. I don't know if commie's want lawyers for dogs, but strange never the less.

- Carol Browner, global warming "czar" - was part of Socialist International, a group for "global governance"

- Ezekiel Emmanuel, health care adviser - proponent of the Complete Lives System, which puts values on lives based mostly by age. Socialist health care.

Levin says he wants to take our money and give it to inner city scum.That's called redistribution of wealth. BO said it himself.

[TracyCoxx]

Now do you understand that nothing is good enough!!Just an illustration to show how easy this is to do and to show why originals are needed. It's only the presidency.

And for the record, I'm not accusing him of not being a natural born US citizen. I'm just pointing out that it makes himself look suspicious that he doesn't bring forth an original copy of his birth certificate, especially when it's one of the few eligibility requirements for being president.

[m666]

Well, TracyCoxx, If you are able to explain to me how a czar can be a socialist, you win the sports car!

[Talvenada]

I've wondered that. Because after seeing what he's doing, he's either a complete moron or he's doing on it purpose. Trying to stay on that narrow line where he does the most damage, yet keeps from being impeached.

Before taking office he didn't mince words. He said he was going to fundamentally change America. Also that he wanted to spread the wealth around. He appointed communist revolutionaries as his czars.

He said under his plan for cap & trade, electricity rates would sky rocket. Gee, do you think that's wise to do when we were approaching 10% unemployment and the national debt was skyrocketing? This is either a stupid move or the policy of someone trying to ruin the country.

Have you heard of the Apollo Alliance? They combine environmental policy with labor and social justice. It's run by a self professed communist (although I'm sure that word isn't offensive to you guys). Van Jones was one of the founding members of Apollo. The founder of the corrupt organization, ACORN is also funding Apollo. Jeff Jones, one of the founders of the terrorist group Weather Underground was on the run for about a decade and then caught by the feds. After he got out of prison he now chairs the Apollo Alliance. The Apollo Alliance is a scary group of shady characters, ex-cons, and corrupt organizations. Why then would Obama and Harry Reid have the Apollo Alliance write much of the stimulus package?

When the country is undergoing financial crisis, which ACORN lobbied heavily for its major cause, only an idiot, or someone wanting to ruin the economy would tack on another several $trillion in debt not just last year, but each year following. All this is putting the credit rating of the US in danger. The federal debt limit was just raised almost 100% with Obama's 2010 budget, to $14.3 trillion vs. $7.8 trillion in 2005. The Congressional Budget Office predicts future deficits around 4% through 2020. Get it? America's debt at 84% of GDP will soon pass that toxic 90% trigger point. Right now interest rates are being held artificially low. But eventually, probably before the end of BO's term, the government will have to raise interest rates at least 25% to recoup the money it printed. Don't say I didn't warn you... have your credit cards paid off!

Columbia University sociologists Richard Andrew Cloward and his wife Frances Fox Piven said the best way to bring about the change they sought was to get everyone on welfare, so that the system would eventually collapse under its own weight. The "Cloward-Piven Strategy" seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse. This is a way to change the country, not with revolutionary change, but evolutionary change. The end goal is the same though. A very strong case could be made that the radicals in the Obama administration, including the radical himself, are following the Cloward-Piven playbook to "Fundamentally change America".

TRACY:


Paragraph 1: Debate you that Obama is ruining the country deliberately?

Paragraph 2: Debate you about the admin. of commies and czars?

Paragraph 3: Debate you that Obama said electricity rates would skyrocket with his approval?

Paragraph 4: Debate you that the admin. is filled with commies, crooks, and terrorists from day 1, and that these people are controlling legislation?

Paragraph 5: Debate you on numbers from 2020 that are presented as fact, which are presented as 100% due to Obama?

Paragraph 6: Debate you that this is an admin. filled with radicals, run by a radical? That's what Hannity and Levin believe.


With the reality of these issues, I would blow you off?

TAL

[TracyCoxx]

Paragraph 3: Debate you that Obama said electricity rates would skyrocket with his approval?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlTxGHn4sH4

Oh, I'm just such a right wing whack job.
Want to keep going?

[Talvenada]

Just an illustration to show how easy this is to do and to show why originals are needed. It's only the presidency.

And for the record, I'm not accusing him of not being a natural born US citizen. I'm just pointing out that it makes himself look suspicious that he doesn't bring forth an original copy of his birth certificate, especially when it's one of the few eligibility requirements for being president.


TRACY:

What does Obama have to do to convince you? Please elaborate.

TAL

[TracyCoxx]

What does Obama have to do to convince you? Please elaborate.Congress certifies the votes. They should validate any accompanying paperwork as well. Normally I'd say it's ok to present a copy, but enough questions arose to prompt a federal court to ask BO to present his birth certificate. Up to this point no red flags were raised in my mind. This is the usual behind the scenes stuff you see in an election. But when BO refused and spent millions to block the order, then that got my attention. Considering that candidates routinely present birth certificates, medical records, tax forms, whatever if any issues are brought up to immediately allay any concerns before they fester and become issues.

[Talvenada]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlTxGHn4sH4

Oh, I'm just such a right wing whack job.
Want to keep going?


TRACY:

I summarized what you wrote as issues, and said I wouldn't debate you on. I didn't call you anything. I said what you wanted to debate on, and they are issues I've heard from Coulter, Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, Levin and Palin.

No offense, but what I was saying is I won't waste my time defending Obama on attack issues, like Obama is a terrorist. Sorry.

You are saying debate you on these issues, or I'm insulting you, no?


TAL

[TracyCoxx]

I summarized what you wrote as issues, and said I wouldn't debate you on. I didn't call you anything. I said what you wanted to debate on, and they are issues I've heard from Coulter, Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, Levin and Palin.

No offense, but what I was saying is I won't waste my time defending Obama on attack issues, like Obama is a terrorist. Sorry.

You are saying debate you on these issues, or I'm insulting you, no?
You said above you wouldn't discuss them because you thought it was all from Glenn Beck, the right-wing whack job. Not that you called him or I that, but it's implied. Sorry if I misunderstood you, but I wasn't sure if english was your 1st language and I didn't quite understand your posting where you summarized my issues. If you don't want to debate those issues, fine. But I consider all of them pretty serious, especially when taken together. And as I've shown on the 3rd issue, the source isn't Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, Levin, Coulter or Palin. It was Obama. Much of the information I have are direct sources.

[Talvenada]

You said above you wouldn't discuss them because you thought it was all from Glenn Beck, the right-wing whack job. Not that you called him or I that, but it's implied. Sorry if I misunderstood you, but I wasn't sure if english was your 1st language and I didn't quite understand your posting where you summarized my issues. If you don't want to debate those issues, fine. But I consider all of them pretty serious, especially when taken together. And as I've shown on the 3rd issue, the source isn't Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, Levin, Coulter or Palin. It was Obama. Much of the information I have are direct sources.

TRACY:

Firstly, thank you, for the illiterate insult.

I said they were ATTACK issues!!

Guilt by association, guilt by location.

Association like Bill Ayers equals pals around with terrorists.

Geography like Chicago equals Obama is a crook too.

Example only: McCain hung around with commies for years. How did he get out alive without there being a reason? Just sayin.

These are ATTACK issues, and they are done by political people--like you who despise Obama to begin with without a reason, and hate after you have a reason. The point is to create as many doubts about your political rival as you can.

I know you cannot attack a war hero, or a president (Bush 43) during wartime.

TAL

[randolph]

well said.

These are ATTACK issues, and they are done by political people--like you who despise Obama to begin with without a reason, and hate after you have a reason. The point is to create as many doubts about your political rival as you can.

Its really sad there is so much hate among conservatives. A little reason and compromise could go a long way toward solving many of our problems. If the hate mongers, Rush, et all would just go away so we could live in peace.
Cant we just love each other as fellow humans? :hug:

[TracyCoxx]

These are ATTACK issues, and they are done by political people--like you who despise Obama to begin with without a reason, and hate after you have a reason.On what basis do you claim I despised Obama without reason?

[TracyCoxx]

Its really sad there is so much hate among conservatives. A little reason and compromise could go a long way toward solving many of our problems. If the hate mongers, Rush, et all would just go away so we could live in peace.
Cant we just love each other as fellow humans? :hug:

I don't know what to say. I realize now how hateful I've been. All I have to do is think back to when Bush was in office to remember how loving and understanding Democrats were about him. I am sorry, please forgive me and the other conservative hate mongers.

[Talvenada]

On what basis do you claim I despised Obama without reason?

Before, I merely despised him.




TRACY:

Remember, you said this without a reason attached to it?


TAL

[TracyCoxx]

Remember, you said this without a reason attached to it?

I said
Before, I merely despised him. Seeing as how BO has now targeted my job and lifelong goal I am in a particularly foul mood when it comes to him today.

I didn't think I had to put a reason on it. There's 31 pages of my reasons on this thread :lol:

[Talvenada]

I don't know what to say. I realize now how hateful I've been. All I have to do is think back to when Bush was in office to remember how loving and understanding Democrats were about him. I am sorry, please forgive me and the other conservative hate mongers.

TRACY:

BTW, there was no reason for me to post the entire line, as it had no affect on context. Just pointing that out.

RANDY:

Conse 'Pubs feel that going after Obama every day on every thing is payback for Bush 43. The unwashed inferiors had the nerve to UNJUSTLY criticize Bush 43 for torture, wire tapping, Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, The Iraq War, bin Laden still at large and 112 other questionable actions. And, yes, Tracy will no doubt justify every action from those 8 years that are mentioned above, while there is no justifying a single move by Obama--not one.

Of course, attacking Clinton required no payback, and honestly do you think Conse 'Pubs need a reason to attack Obama? I don't, how 'bout you, Randy?


TAL

[CCC]

well said.



Its really sad there is so much hate among conservatives. A little reason and compromise could go a long way toward solving many of our problems. If the hate mongers, Rush, et all would just go away so we could live in peace.
Cant we just love each other as fellow humans? :hug:

You sound like a contestant for Miss America--that won't happen til the Liberal Dems stop messing with the Consitution, the Bill of Rights and my wallet.

[jimnaseum]

Its really sad there is so much hate among conservatives.

Not hate, Randy, FEAR.

[randolph]

Well guys, I am "retiring" from this thread, its becoming "threadbare". :(
It's more fun writing erotic stories and thinking about lovely tgirls. :inlove:

[Talvenada]

You sound like a contestant for Miss America--that won't happen til the Liberal Dems stop messing with the Consitution, the Bill of Rights and my wallet.

RANDY:

They want their country back to the good old days of TAX CUTS!!!


It's all about the full wallet.


TAL

[TracyCoxx]

Well guys, I am "retiring" from this thread, its becoming "threadbare". :(
It's more fun writing erotic stories and thinking about lovely tgirls. :inlove:

Well it's been stimulating debating with you. You were the most objective of them and you knew what you were talking about. Post your stories ok? :turnon:

[jimnaseum]

You were the most objective of them

What do you mean them?

[TracyCoxx]

What do you mean them?
LOL!!!!!!!

[jimnaseum]

LOL!!!!!!!

I'll stimulate you, Tracy.

[CreativeMind]

Its really sad there is so much hate among conservatives. A little reason and compromise could go a long way toward solving many of our problems. If the hate mongers, Rush, et all would just go away so we could live in peace.

Not hate, Randy, FEAR.


Yeah, you guys are right.
No one on the Left could ever be accused of spreading hate and fear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLjAahyKfp0

[TracyCoxx]

I'll stimulate you, Tracy.

I don't get it??

Yeah, you guys are right.
No one on the Left could ever be accused of spreading hate and fear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLjAahyKfp0
LOL that was awesome. There was a grown man having a temper tantrum on national TV.

[CCC]

Yeah, you guys are right.
No one on the Left could ever be accused of spreading hate and fear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLjAahyKfp0

What a jerk---does he think that is going to get him better ratings--I have more people listening to my radio show than him.

[Talvenada]

Yeah, you guys are right.
No one on the Left could ever be accused of spreading hate and fear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLjAahyKfp0

JIM:

Translation: Unless you're perfect you cannot criticize the right, because they don't criticize--they ONLY disagree. You're not perfect if there is 1 thing to question, which means they can do a million things you think are wrong.

TAL

[ila]

^And apparently one cannot criticize the left without receiving a condescending snarky reply in return.

[franalexes]

No one is more intollerant of others than the left that claim to be tollerant.

[ila]

No one is more intollerant of others than the left that claim to be tollerant.

That is so true.

[randolph]

New Poll Results Are Proof That Republicans Don't Think


A poll commissioned by DailyKos shows just how far to the right the GOP has been dragged by its right wing...and how far out of step they are with the rest of America.
February 5, 2010 |

http://www.alternet.org/images/managed/storyimages_picture27_1265416971.jpg_310x220


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A village cannot revise village life to suit the village idiot. -- Frank Schaeffer

On Tuesday, the Daily Kos published a new Research 2000 (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/2/2/832988/-The-2010-Comprehensive-Daily-Kos-Research-2000-Poll-of-Self-Identified-Republicans) study showing the current state of belief in the GOP. Though the results aren't anything new -- indeed, the study just puts hard numbers to everything we already thought we knew about the right wing -- the data also show, in sharp detail, just how far to the right the GOP has been dragged by its right wing...and how far out of step they are with the rest of America as a result.
The data also show that Frank Schaeffer was more than fair in characterizing these people as America's "village idiots." For one thing, they really are a bitterly small minority. Last week, I laid out some numbers of my own (http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010010428/state-union-status-report-far-right), which showed that the conservative movement as it's currently constituted only represents the views of about 25 to 30 percent of Americans. (And, historically, that's about as big as conservative movements ever get in the US -- though it's plenty big enough to do some real damage.) Furthermore, according to a Washington Post/ABC News poll done last October, only about 20 percent of Americans currently identify as Republican, which is a 40-year low. There's nothing about our current GOP that can be supportably described as "mainstream."
Kos's pollsters did a valiant job of getting inside the heads of this 20 percent. But the story they tell also shows how severe the conservatives' level of derangement has become; and just how little introspection the conservatives have done to reckon with the causes and consequences of their own failures. And it also documents the vast chasm this willful refusal to deal with reality is creating between this noisy minority and the vast majority of Americans.
To grasp the size of the gap, you only have to compare Kos' numbers on conservative beliefs with the most current available stats on the attitudes of the country as a whole. So -- that's what I did below. This discussion doesn't address all of the the questions in Kos's summary, because good data wasn't available on some of them; but a look at most of the high points gives you an accurate picture of just how far out of the mainstream the GOP is pulling.
Should Barack Obama be impeached, or not?
Yes 39
No 32
Not Sure 29
Over a third of Republicans say Obama should be impeached. ("For what? Who the heck knows?" asks Kos. The beauty of being a village idiot is that you never have to explain yourself.) Nearly another third think it's an open question; only one-third say no.
But out in the Real America, Obama's Gallup approval ratings (http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-daily-obama-job-approval.aspx%20) are well within the normal range for a one-year president. Since his TV appearances last week, they're up over 50% again -- and, as Rachel Maddow notes, the Omentum is rising.
Do you think Barack Obama is a socialist?
Yes 63
No 21
Not Sure 16
OK, fine. All faithful FOX watchers know that Obama is a socialist. But the problem for the village idiots is: it's increasingly true that socialism is a terrifying boogeyman that only they can see. For them, it's Mao and Stalin. For the rest of us, it's just another day of government-built roads and schools.
An April 2009 Rasmussen poll (and remember, Rasmussen's findings generally skew rightward) found that only 53% of Americans thought that capitalism was better than socialism. A full 20% though we could do with some more socialism around here; and 37% didn't have an opinion either way.
When nearly half the country no longer thinks that Socialism is Evil Incarnate, red-baiting just doesn't pack much of a political punch any more.
Do you believe Sarah Palin is more qualified to be President than Barack Obama?
Yes 53
No 14
Not Sure 33
For those of you thinking the "village idiot" metaphor is bit of hyperbole, consider for just a moment the sheer surreality of the idea that there could be any group, anywhere, in which half of everybody thinks that Sarah Palin would make a good president. Enough said?
But let's skip ahead to the facts. Which are these: A CBS News poll taken two weeks ago found that 71% of Americans do not want to Sarah Palin to run for president in 2012. Only 20% of us (apparently the same ones the Kos poll talked to) think this is a good idea.


Okay, I am not making personal comments on this thread, but I thought this article would be "educational".

[Talvenada]

^And apparently one cannot criticize the left without receiving a condescending snarky reply in return.

ILA:

Hopefully, your politics in Canada are more pleasant than ours here south of the border. Me, I'm a Mod Dem, who went from slightly left of center to left of center after 8 years of Bush-Cheney.

It's been my experience that the left is willing to compromise, hear another opinion, realistic criticism, and honest debate. That said, the right likes political debate, which breaks down everything to equal opinions. In other words, Obama is not an American is equal and opinion only to those of us who think he's an American.

Me, If Obama pulled some of the stunts Bush pulled, I'd bust on him myself. Right now, Obama has 5 or 6 questionable actions, but it's too soon to say if any will turn out to be Bush-like.

TAL

[TracyCoxx]

Me, If Obama pulled some of the stunts Bush pulled, I'd bust on him myself. Right now, Obama has 5 or 6 questionable actions, but it's too soon to say if any will turn out to be Bush-like.

TAL

What 5 or 6 actions do you consider questionable?

[CreativeMind]

JIM: Translation: Unless you're perfect you cannot criticize the right, because they don't criticize--they ONLY disagree. You're not perfect if there is 1 thing to question, which means they can do a million things you think are wrong.

TAL

Tal, just for the record, all I was saying with my post -- or rather letting Keith Olbermann make my point for me -- is that broad blanket statements like Randolph made ("Its sad there is so much hate among conservatives. If the hate mongers, Rush, et all would just go away so we could live in peace") and that Jim made ("Not hate, Randy, FEAR") really hold no water when statements of EQUAL anger and fear mongoring are made on the Left TOO.

Look, do I think Rush often goes over the top? Absolutely.
Do I think a Sean Hannity or Glenn Beck can go over the top? I do.
There -- I'll admit it and put it on the record.

But at the same time that you are trying to get that concession out of me, you can't honestly expect me (or others) to just look the other way and ignore the bitterness coming from the Left as well. Otherwise we'd have the equivalent of you and me squaring off in a boxing ring, at which point you say, "I'd like us to have a fair match." And then as soon as I say "sure" and start to turn, to go to my corner, you quickly blurt out "But I'm allowed to get in a sucker punch first!" KA-POW!

I mean, come on -- fair is fair. If you or anyone else on the Left wants me (or others) to denounce over-the-top ravings of a Rush Limbaugh or whoever, then the Left has to likewise admit to (as I showed with my clip) that the frothing at the mouth ravings of people like Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow, etc, are EQUALLY nutty.

In fact, since we're on the topic of simply spreading hate or fear, allow me to present Liberal radio and TV host Ed Schultz on MSNBC just tonight, as he discusses Sarah Palin's speech at the Tea Party Convention with Bob Shrum, Democratic strategist and perpetual party hack, who decided NOT to discuss her speech on intellectual grounds, but chose instead to take a cheap personal shot at Palin by bitterly declaring: "She came across as a merchant of hate with an oh gosh smile." Wow, that's some real Ivy League intellectual analysis there, huh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3pre0VgX5s


So, I'll repeat what I said before: Yeah, you guys are right.
No on on the Left could ever be accused of peddling hate or fear themselves.
(insert mocking eye roll here)

[ila]

ILA:

Hopefully, your politics in Canada are more pleasant than ours here south of the border. Me, I'm a Mod Dem, who went from slightly left of center to left of center after 8 years of Bush-Cheney.

It's been my experience that the left is willing to compromise, hear another opinion, realistic criticism, and honest debate. That said, the right likes political debate, which breaks down everything to equal opinions. In other words, Obama is not an American is equal and opinion only to those of us who think he's an American.

Me, If Obama pulled some of the stunts Bush pulled, I'd bust on him myself. Right now, Obama has 5 or 6 questionable actions, but it's too soon to say if any will turn out to be Bush-like.

TAL

Politics here is just as bad with the left full of self righteous indignation at the right for doing the same things that the left did when they formed the government. The left leaning media doesn?t help the situation either because they continually criticize the right while neglecting to mention that the left did the same things, only more often.

Attack ads against opponents are all too common now. No politician ever discusses issues anymore. They are all like a bunch of children on one long temper tantrum. One group of politicians accuses a second group of lying who accuse a third group of lying who accuse the first group of lying.

There is no leadership in politics anymore. No one is in it for the good of the country and the people. They are all there to feed at the public trough, ensure that they and their buddies have a regular paycheck, and cause never ending headaches and problems for the citizens that they are supposed to serve (this is a bit of an exaggeration as some politicians are altruistic, just not enough are). This applies to all the parties and not any particular one.

[jimnaseum]

There is no leadership in politics anymore. No one is in it for the good of the country and the people. They are all there to feed at the public trough, ensure that they and their buddies have a regular paycheck, and cause never ending headaches and problems for the citizens that they are supposed to serve.

Would you say this applies to Barack Obama?

[Talvenada]

Tal, just for the record, all I was saying with my post -- or rather letting Keith Olbermann make my point for me -- is that broad blanket statements like Randolph made ("Its sad there is so much hate among conservatives. If the hate mongers, Rush, et all would just go away so we could live in peace") and that Jim made ("Not hate, Randy, FEAR") really hold no water when statements of EQUAL anger and fear mongoring are made on the Left TOO.

Look, do I think Rush often goes over the top? Absolutely.
Do I think a Sean Hannity or Glenn Beck can go over the top? I do.
There -- I'll admit it and put it on the record.

But at the same time that you are trying to get that concession out of me, you can't honestly expect me (or others) to just look the other way and ignore the bitterness coming from the Left as well. Otherwise we'd have the equivalent of you and me squaring off in a boxing ring, at which point you say, "I'd like us to have a fair match." And then as soon as I say "sure" and start to turn, to go to my corner, you quickly blurt out "But I'm allowed to get in a sucker punch first!" KA-POW!

I mean, come on -- fair is fair. If you or anyone else on the Left wants me (or others) to denounce over-the-top ravings of a Rush Limbaugh or whoever, then the Left has to likewise admit to (as I showed with my clip) that the frothing at the mouth ravings of people like Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow, etc, are EQUALLY nutty.

In fact, since we're on the topic of simply spreading hate or fear, allow me to present Liberal radio and TV host Ed Schultz on MSNBC just tonight, as he discusses Sarah Palin's speech at the Tea Party Convention with Bob Shrum, Democratic strategist and perpetual party hack, who decided NOT to discuss her speech on intellectual grounds, but chose instead to take a cheap personal shot at Palin by bitterly declaring: "She came across as a merchant of hate with an oh gosh smile." Wow, that's some real Ivy League intellectual analysis there, huh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3pre0VgX5s


So, I'll repeat what I said before: Yeah, you guys are right.
No on on the Left could ever be accused of peddling hate or fear themselves.
(insert mocking eye roll here)

C-MIN:

Firstly, I'm in the middle with a view to the right and the left, and there is a big slant to the right in combativeness. Schultz is a far-left guy that I stopped watching after 6 weeks, but he is no match for Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, and Levin. He's behind them in 5th place for over the top. Olbermann, Maddow and O'Reilly are behind the big 5. Mathews and Van Sustern are the fairest of the lot, and ALL on both sides are biased by nature, which shows in their wording.

Secondly, my interest in politics cannot be satisfied by honest debate, because that requires 2 sides to be honest. So, I look for weak arguments to feast on, because I'm offered no other choice. I find whose-side-are-you-on arguments to be offensive. It should be a debate of facts, and not a charlatan sporting event.

Thirdly, I wasn't trying to get you to admit something; I was pointing out an argument that stated the other side does it: equal.

Personally, I don't care who is in The WH from Conse 'Pub to Lib Dem, but just do the job. Granted, I'm more left of center than ever after 8 years of The Clinton-Ken Starr Admin., after 8 years of Bush-Cheney with 118 questionable actions, and after 1 year of daily attacks on Obama. Obama has gotten more in 1 year than Bush got in 8 years, and it's not just the pols. It's the right media, and citizens.

Example: Don't tell me we are threatened by a country that is militarily 60% of what it was 12 before, when its army couldn't surrender fast enough. That that is more of a priority than getting bin Laden, and you expect me to trust your judgement as president? That means whether you're Clinton, Bush or Obama, I don't want to hear what I can see thru. This is just me, which is why Palin is so unappealing to me.

As far as Obama's questionable actions, I'll name 8.

TRACY:

1. 50 Gitmo prisoners who'll be imprisoned for life without charge, and/or with tarnished evidence (waterboarding).

2. Wiretapping continues.

3. No Wall Street restrictions for a year.

4. Pushing for bi-partisanship with pols who opening brag they will negotiate in poor faith to slow down and stop legislation only.

5. Upping The Afgan War with more troops after 8 years.

6. The Iraq War not ending soon enough.

7. Not prosecuting war crimes above the legalized torture of Yoo

8. and below is very quiet.

1 is not having enough info to find a better action.
2 is not talked about to show a change has been made.
3 is now heading in the right direction, but it's way too early.
4 is what's wrong with politics, and I feel it may be more than a 1-person job for anybody.
5 might be the right choice, but need to know more of what's going on.
6 seems to be slow, but that could be just me.
7 might be the best option for the country, or not.
8 appears to be a little too quiet.


I only say 118 questionable Bush actions, some are no longer questionable, because none are prosecuted.

So, Conse 'Pubs, bring a crap argument and I'll bring a mop.

TAL

[TracyCoxx]

Personally, I don't care who is in The WH from Conse 'Pub to Lib Dem, but just do the job. Granted, I'm more left of center than ever after 8 years of The Clinton-Ken Starr Admin., after 8 years of Bush-Cheney with 118 questionable actions, and after 1 year of daily attacks on Obama. Obama has gotten more in 1 year than Bush got in 8 years, and it's not just the pols. It's the right media, and citizens.There's no argument, the right-media is letting BO have it. But at the same time, BO does things that should prompt an objective journalist to ask probing follow up questions and the left-media just lets it go. Also, the administration wants to (sometimes demands to) preview questions whenever possible. That's not how it's supposed to work.

This is just me, which is why Palin is so unappealing to me.She's unappealing to me too. Politically that is. Other than that, she's kinda hot.


As far as Obama's questionable actions, I'll name 8.

TRACY:

1. 50 Gitmo prisoners who'll be imprisoned for life without charge, and/or with tarnished evidence (waterboarding).

2. Wiretapping continues.This is a tough one. Presumably they only wiretap questionable people, and it has netted results. On the other hand, they could wiretap anyone. But do they? Who knows?

3. No Wall Street restrictions for a year.That's that free market thing.

4. Pushing for bi-partisanship with pols who opening brag they will negotiate in poor faith to slow down and stop legislation only.Polls show that the american people are against health care and out of control government spending. There is no one in congress with voting power to represent these people who are the majority. So republicans use the only tool they have which is to slow down or stop legislation.

5. Upping The Afgan War with more troops after 8 years.I'm not sure about this one because I've never heard from BO what our goal in Afghanistan is, or what his larger picture of the war on terror is, if any.

6. The Iraq War not ending soon enough.I'm fine with this war ending because we have for the most part won it.

7. Not prosecuting war crimes above the legalized torture of Yoohuh?

8. and below is very quiet.below what?

I only say 118 questionable Bush actions, some are no longer questionable, because none are prosecuted.From what I've seen there are multitudes of gripes attributed to Bush, when what's really going on isn't so black and white. And also things like Abu Ghraib being blamed on Bush when it was actually service men & women who committed those acts on their own.

And this summarizes my thoughts pretty well about the start of the Iraq war...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5p-qIq32m8

[Talvenada]

There's no argument, the right-media is letting BO have it. But at the same time, BO does things that should prompt an objective journalist to ask probing follow up questions and the left-media just lets it go. Also, the administration wants to (sometimes demands to) preview questions whenever possible. That's not how it's supposed to work.
[/url]

These are ideological selections, and the MSM doesn't condemn Obama for not governing like Bush or a conservative, which is what the right does.



That's that free market thing.
[/url]

That free-market thing happened when they deregulated, and they got 1929 again. If there were no rules & regulations, greed would reign supreme. It's happened twice, and today gaming the system makes it even more necessary. Greed needs to be policed to the point of protecting those who can get screwed even if they do everything right.


Polls show that the american people are against health care and out of control government spending. There is no one in congress with voting power to represent these people who are the majority. So republicans use the only tool they have which is to slow down or stop legislation.
[/url]

If it was only health care, it would look legit, but it's only yes on Bush's policies continued.

My point was that it has been made clear, that even if you give them everything they want, they'll vote no.


huh?
below what?
[/url]

Not prosecuting war crimes above (covered by) the legalized torture of John Yoo, and below (not covered by) is very quiet.

Waterboarding has been considered a war crime for years, except to Bush-Cheney.


From what I've seen there are multitudes of gripes attributed to Bush, when what's really going on isn't so black and white. And also things like Abu Ghraib being blamed on Bush when it was actually service men & women who committed those acts on their own.
[/url]

I use my own list, and Obama is on track for 64, compared to 118 for Bush. If half prove to be true, that would make 59 for Bush.

The Bush ones are a combo of Bush & Cheney, and there are none for Biden, yet.



TRACY:

My view of a questionable action is one where a poor selection was made. If a better choice was available at the time, it was a bad selection. If it turns out to be the best of bad choices, then it was a good selection.

These are not ideological-based actions, and do not favor either side. It does include actions that are or have a good chance of being known by the pres. or VP, and could have been stopped.

Of Bush's 118, some have proven on target; some are still open; but none have been validated, yet.


TAL

[sissygirl]

Obama is an idiot who has no concept of a free society. the only opinion he seeks is his own and is the most dishonest and deceitful president we have ever had. I for one am sick of his lies and his wasteful spending policies that are going to drive us into a debt we will be unable to pay. I pity our childern and what he is doing to our values

[Talvenada]

Obama is an idiot who has no concept of a free society. the only opinion he seeks is his own and is the most dishonest and deceitful president we have ever had. I for one am sick of his lies and his wasteful spending policies that are going to drive us into a debt we will be unable to pay. I pity our childern and what he is doing to our values


And your opinion of Palin is?

[indyzzzz]

If a Republican got elected, we would still have been here debating about how bad things are turning out. The government cannot admit that they cannot control the future, if they PANIC would ensue:p

[TracyCoxx]

And your opinion of Palin is?

Palin will not be the republican front runner.

[sissygirl]

And your opinion of Palin is?

I doubt she will ever become president. I share some of her views but like obama she lacks any experience to be President. hopefully those that voted for obama will remember how it was pointed out numerous times he never had a real job and was absent or failed to vote the majority of time he was in the senate. so he obviously lacked integrity and commitment to those that elected him.

the spend at all cost political hacks we have in office now are not listening to the american people and hopefully we can get rid of them in 2010. what ever happened to "We the People" . have Obama lovers forgotten why they elected him in the first place? the independants sure understand now how much of a liar and phoney he turned out to be and how until recently (only when forced to) the congress and senate didn't care one bit or listen to the american people just rubber stamp king obama and drive the country into socialism.

like Margret Thatcher once said. " the thing about socialism is that eventually they run out of other people money".

Well I for one worked hard for what i have and have no intention of following obamas plan to "redistribute the wealth to those who who only want wants given to them so they become more reliable on big gov"t.

I like freedom of choice and then living by the consequences of my own actions; be they good or bad, that is what American is all about, and what I have faught for during my 26 years serving my country in the Military.

[Talvenada]

Palin will not be the republican front runner.


TRACY:

That wasn't the question. It was his opinion of Palin period.

TAL

[jimnaseum]

Set your GPS to "nowheresville" and you will eventually wind up in a small community of all white people, all republican, and no doors will be locked because there's no crime, and everybody knows everybody, and life is as simple as family values.

[jimnaseum]

I like freedom of choice and then living by the consequences of my own actions; be they good or bad, that is what American is all about, and what I have faught for during my 26 years serving my country in the Military.

I guess you're for transsexuals serving openly in the military then, right?

[randolph]

Partial piece by Stewart Watley, Huffington Post



Though the movement claims to have no defined leadership, there are public figures and entities who nevertheless carry that mantle, which has led to perhaps its greatest irony: A portion of the American populace who carries a populist banner against the coddling of greedy bankers is led by some of the country's most cynical and base profiteers.
When the movement was christened last April for a large tax day protest, it was derived wholesale from the efforts of a registered corporate lobbyist and a right-leaning cable news network, (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher/the-corporate-lobbyists-b_b_186367.html) whose president recently pointed out that it's all about ratings. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-tv/arianna-discusses-ailes-beck-countdown_b_445343.html) At the Tea Party's national convention last weekend, its keynote speaker was a former governor who quit midterm in order to peddle a book that she didn't write, but for which she collects most of the royalties. If this were Iran's Green Movement, these would be the people slinging marked-up green headbands on the street corner.
Of course, the Tea Party is not without its whistleblowers. The $500 per plate (http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/theres-funny-odor-emanating-national) entry fee to last week's convention almost led to it being canceled altogether. But the exodus of reasonable elements will only homogenize the movement further towards a particularly polarizing worldview that opens itself to continued profit-driven exploitation.
In Authoritarianism & Polarization in American Politics (http://www.amazon.com/Authoritarianism-Polarization-American-Politics-Hetherington/dp/052171124X), a revealing work of political science published last year that unfortunately went somewhat unnoticed, Marc J. Hetherington and Jonathan D. Weiler describe a specific worldview -- authoritarianism -- which they argue lies at the heart of political polarization in modern American politics. (It should be noted: their use of the term is not related to the more quotidian and overly negative connotation associated with despotic regimes; rather, it describes a particular lens through which certain people view the world, based on a wide range of scholarly work spanning the fields of psychology, sociology, political science, and other cognitive sciences.)
According to Hetherington and Weiler, authoritarians tend to rely more on emotion and instinct in decision-making, view politics in black and white, resent confusion or ambiguity in the social order, and are suspicious of specific groups who they believe could alter that order (typically gays and immigrants). The difference between authoritarians and nonauthoritarians, according to the authors, becomes far more pronounced during tumultuous economic or social periods when there are more perceived "threats". During such times, authoritarians in particular lose accuracy motivation and, "become much less interested than nonauthoritarians in seeking information that [is] balanced in its approach, and much more interested in pursuing one-sided information that reinforc[es] existing beliefs." Or in other words, they are highly susceptible to misinformation campaigns, (http://www.concordcoalition.org/tabulation/clarifying-misinformation-about-death-panels) the likes of which pervaded the health care reform debate last summer.
Most every characteristic of an authoritarian worldview lends itself well to the impassioned rhetoric of the Tea Party movement and the shrewd players operating behind the scenes and atop the soap box. The movement's overly simplified, often-confused solutions to complex problems align with authoritarians' Manichean worldview. That Tom Tancredo's anti-immigrant laced speech (http://mediamatters.org/blog/201002050021) at last weekend's convention was well received (http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/02/05/tea.party.convention/index.html) comes as no surprise. And that this is the group who so often embraces proven falsehoods (http://www.concordcoalition.org/tabulation/clarifying-misinformation-about-death-panels) and spin-narratives (http://www.theweek.com/article/index/105777/FOX_Deliberate_misinformation) to defend its anti-administration agenda should speak for itself with regards to accuracy motivation.
Despite criticism it receives, the Tea Party continues to be praised as a political force. It is loud, passionate, and generally unconcerned with pesky things like facts or reasoned, practical solutions to the country's problems. This bodes ill for 2010's political environment, and it is a shameful representation of what constitutes an American political or social movement. While the Tea Party may alienate some who see it for the profit-machine that it is, others who share the fearful, intolerant authoritarian worldview that it is increasing coalescing around will be lured in and pitted against the very people in power who could actually help them. That this movement has grown political legs is too bad, and by Hetherington and Weiler's account, it means even more polarization is yet to come.

[Talvenada]

RANDY:

Accurate motto!!



TAL

[CCC]

Set your GPS to "nowheresville" and you will eventually wind up in a small community of all white people, all republican, and no doors will be locked because there's no crime, and everybody knows everybody, and life is as simple as family values.

Sounds great doesn't it :yes:

[TracyCoxx]

TRACY:

That wasn't the question. It was his opinion of Palin period.Ahhh yes, but it was my answer ;)

Set your GPS to "nowheresville" and you will eventually wind up in a small community of all white people, all republican, and no doors will be locked because there's no crime, and everybody knows everybody, and life is as simple as family values.

Sounds peaceful. Hopefully it's within an hour of a ski resort too.

"I will make a bargain with the Republicans. If they will stop telling lies about Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
Adlai StevensonCute, but completely backwards.

[sissygirl]

I guess you're for transsexuals serving openly in the military then, right?

who really cares anymore I'm retired now

obama still is an idiot and we can't afford his socialistic stance and his hate for individual liberties and freedoms if he continues to apologize and bow to foreign contries for America being free, then he diserves to be impeached

I'm done with this topic

[TracyCoxx]

Miss me yet? lol

[jimnaseum]

Let's try this, maybe I can get through.....


Odama is Go0b

[TracyCoxx]

Let's try this, maybe I can get through.....


Odama is Go0b

Yeah, and that Obama guy too

[randolph]

New York Times, Paul Krugman

February 10, 2010, 10:59 am Clueless

I?m with Simon Johnson (http://baselinescenario.com/2010/02/10/president-obama-on-ceo-compensation-at-too-big-to-fail-banks/) here: how is it possible, at this late date, for Obama to be this clueless?
The lead story on Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aKGZkktzkAlA) right now contains excerpts from an interview with Business Week which tells us:
President Barack Obama said he doesn?t ?begrudge? the $17 million bonus awarded to JPMorgan Chase & Co. Chief Executive Officer Jamie Dimon or the $9 million issued to Goldman Sachs Group Inc. CEO Lloyd Blankfein, noting that some athletes take home more pay.
The president, speaking in an interview, said in response to a question that while $17 million is ?an extraordinary amount of money? for Main Street, ?there are some baseball players who are making more than that and don?t get to the World Series either, so I?m shocked by that as well.?
?I know both those guys; they are very savvy businessmen,? Obama said in the interview yesterday in the Oval Office with Bloomberg BusinessWeek, which will appear on newsstands Friday. ?I, like most of the American people, don?t begrudge people success or wealth. That is part of the free- market system.?
Obama sought to combat perceptions that his administration is anti-business and trumpeted the influence corporate leaders have had on his economic policies. He plans to reiterate that message when he speaks to the Business Roundtable, which represents the heads of many of the biggest U.S. companies, on Feb. 24 in Washington.
Oh. My. God.
First of all, to my knowledge, irresponsible behavior by baseball players hasn?t brought the world economy to the brink of collapse and cost millions of innocent Americans their jobs and/or houses.
And more specifically, not only has the financial industry has been bailed out with taxpayer commitments; it continues to rely on a taxpayer backstop for its stability. Don?t take it from me, take it from the rating agencies (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e7f8289e-15b7-11df-ad7e-00144feab49a.html):
The planned overhaul of US financial rules prompted Standard & Poor?s to warn on Tuesday it might downgrade the credit ratings of Citigroup and Bank of America on concerns that the shake-up would make it less likely that the banks would be bailed out by US taxpayers if they ran into trouble again.
The point is that these bank executives are not free agents who are earning big bucks in fair competition; they run companies that are essentially wards of the state. There?s good reason to feel outraged at the growing appearance that we?re running a system of lemon socialism, in which losses are public but gains are private. And at the very least, you would think that Obama would understand the importance of acknowledging public anger over what?s happening.
But no. If the Bloomberg story is to be believed, Obama thinks his key to electoral success is to trumpet ?the influence corporate leaders have had on his economic policies.?
We?re doomed.



Well, you guys are going to have a hard time accusing him of being a Socialist after this.:frown::censored:

[jimnaseum]

I'd say Bill Clinton was at his greatest BECAUSE of Wall St. I recall that all the guys at my office who had Thrift Savings Accts were on schedule to retire as full fledged Millionaires, then Bush came in.
When Democrats talk about helping "poor" people, the poor people react like republicans because poor people don't think of themselves as poor people, they think of themselves as "working" people.
There's not a true American alive who doesn't secretly want to be rich as a Wall St Banker. You don't get rich getting money, you get rich saving money. And for that you need Banks.

[Talvenada]

RANDY:

Sorry, you're wrong. They will forever call him a socialist, like they do with FDR. If they still are asking for a birth certificate with Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers still as open issues also, you can forget them stopping anything. I'm surprised they aren't blaming the stock market on him lately.

We bashed Bush for torture, The Iraq War, Katrina, Abu Gharib, bin Ladin's freedom, Gitmo and others. So, social security, Medicare, unemployment comp. and other government programs are socialism. And all socialism is Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Commie, FDR, Lenin and others. We are entitled to an opinion, but not facts.

TAL

[TracyCoxx]

RANDY:

Sorry, you're wrong. They will forever call him a socialist, like they do with FDR. If they still are asking for a birth certificate with Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers still as open issues also, you can forget them stopping anything.Yeah Randy. Don't you know that all those issues have been resolved? He did bring his original birth certificate. It has been conclusively shown that Jeremiah Wright doesn't hate whites, capitalism or apple pie, and that at no time during BO's 20 years attending Wright's services did Wright ever utter a disparaging word about America. And come on... Bill Ayers was cleared of any wrong doing and he's a sweet old school teacher. And yet STILL republicans bring up these issues.

Actually the whole thing's a strawman argument. It's TAL who likes to bring up these issues. But I will continue to bring up the socialist direction BO is taking us.

Ok class... from Webster:
Socialism
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

TAL
for definitions 1 and 2b. Do you deny that BO has tried to grow the government, and incorporate banks, insurance companies, car companies and health care into the government?

definitions 2a and 3: He's limited CEO salaries. He's raising taxes on the wealthy and lowering taxes on the poor & middle class while directing taxes to the poor via welfare. He hasn't gone all the way on this yet, but do you deny that BO advocates "sharing the wealth"?

[Talvenada]

Yeah Randy. Don't you know that all those issues have been resolved? He did bring his original birth certificate. It has been conclusively shown that Jeremiah Wright doesn't hate whites, capitalism or apple pie, and that at no time during BO's 20 years attending Wright's services did Wright ever utter a disparaging word about America. And come on... Bill Ayers was cleared of any wrong doing and he's a sweet old school teacher. And yet STILL republicans bring up these issues.

Actually the whole thing's a strawman argument. It's TAL who likes to bring up these issues. But I will continue to bring up the socialist direction BO is taking us.

Ok class... from Webster:
Socialism
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

TAL
for definitions 1 and 2b. Do you deny that BO has tried to grow the government, and incorporate banks, insurance companies, car companies and health care into the government?

definitions 2a and 3: He's limited CEO salaries. He's raising taxes on the wealthy and lowering taxes on the poor & middle class while directing taxes to the poor via welfare. He hasn't gone all the way on this yet, but do you deny that BO advocates "sharing the wealth"?



TRACY,

Did you miss this:

So, social security, Medicare, unemployment comp. and other government programs are socialism. And all socialism is Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Commie, FDR, Lenin and others.


I said it was socialism, and it's been here since 1932.

All socialism is prevalent in bad countries: UK, Canada, France, Germany, etc.

The difference is that there is good and bad socialism, like there is good and bad capitalism.


Do you buy the Obama birth certificate if not every one of his opponents gets an original copy hand delivered from Hawaii by their governor, and if one opponent doesn't get that other-than-special treatment, his citizenship is still in question.

Don't tell me you've accepted a copy on an Internet web site?

Usually Conse 'Pubs will stick to their facts unless they are questioned strongly.


RANDY:

Aren't you OUTRAGED that Obama mispronounced the word corpsman 4 times?

FOUR times!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you believe the GAUL of The Libs to point out that Newt said that the shoe bomber was American?

TAL

[randolph]

The rich take care of their own. The poor bastards that do the work are out in the cold.

[randolph]

G W Bush who?

[Talvenada]

G W Bush who?

RANDY:


My answer is YES, and I like you being away.



TAL

[randolph]

RANDY:
My answer is YES, and I like you being away.
TAL

Sorry you don't have a sense of humor.:(

[Talvenada]

Sorry you don't have a sense of humor.:(

RANDY:

I wasn't trying to be funny, when I said I like missing him.

I liked your humor though.


TAL

[jimnaseum]

Look for stage II of the "Good cop, bad cop" Obama administration, starting with the 50+1 reconciliation on Health Care. Watch Obama take the leash off Rahm Emanuel this election year. Democrats will take a hit this November, but by 2012 people will be going back to work. The Health Care Bill is Obama's Iraq War. If it is a success, he'll be a genius. If it is a disaster, he'll be an idealist fool. Send in Emanuel to make sure it works.

[TracyCoxx]

Look for stage II of the "Good cop, bad cop" Obama administration, starting with the 50+1 reconciliation on Health Care. Watch Obama take the leash off Rahm Emanuel this election year. Democrats will take a hit this November, but by 2012 people will be going back to work. The Health Care Bill is Obama's Iraq War. If it is a success, he'll be a genius. If it is a disaster, he'll be an idealist fool. Send in Emanuel to make sure it works.

If it is a success it will be the first time a government program is well managed and efficient. Besides... Obama wouldn't use reconciliation (or the nuclear option) to pass health care. That's against everything the democrats stand for.

Here BO calls the nuclear option...
... a change in the Senate rules that will change the character of the Senate forever. And what I worry about is that you would essentially have still two chambers, the House and the Senate, but you have simply majoritarian absolute power on either side, and that's just not what the founders intended.

The right to extend the debate is never more important than when one party controls the congress and the White House. In these cases the filibuster serves as a check on power, and preserves our limited government.

This nuclear option is ultimately an example of the arrogance of power. I say to my friends on the Republican side, you may own the field right now. But you won't own it forever. And I pray God, when the Democrats take back control, we don't make the kind of naked power grab you are doing.

So I don't know why the prospect of Obama using the nuclear option, or reconciliation is even coming up.

[jimnaseum]

Rahm Emanuel
fuckin' retards.......


Medicare is 44 years old, time for a colonoscopy. The entire medical profession is based upon how to charge ten bucks for a Viagra pill. It doesn't matter what this Bill says, it's going to be rewritten a hundred times over the next generation anyway, what matters is that the Medical Profession starts healing American Citizens. Once people see that, the Republicans will never be able to take it away.

[jimnaseum]

Non-Believers prepare to gaze in wide wonder next week as Obama seperates the RED SEA and lets his People go-go to the USA of the FUTURE.
"We have here only five loaves of bread and two fish," said the Republicans.
"All shall be fed" said Obama. And it was so.

[jimnaseum]

Watch for Obama 2010 Election strategy after Healthcare is passed. Go HARD after Corporations and the Supreme Court Ruling that allows unlimited Corporate Donations. It should be interesting to see which side the Republicans line up with.

[TracyCoxx]

Watch for Obama 2010 Election strategy after Healthcare is passed. Go HARD after Corporations and the Supreme Court Ruling that allows unlimited Corporate Donations. It should be interesting to see which side the Republicans line up with.

I was kind of hoping he'd go campaign for democratic candidates out there. :lol:

[jimnaseum]

Patiently waiting for Tracy to abandon the party of "they can't do anything either" and get on the Obama Bus. A future where all Americans can get a Hand up. not a Hand out.

[ninjashoes]

I am not a big fan of the republican party. Mostly because of the fact that most that I have met are bible thumping assholes...

[TracyCoxx]

I am not a big fan of the republican party. Mostly because of the fact that most that I have met are bible thumping assholes...

Be a conservative libertarian then. It's a shame that republicans have hitched their trailer to the bible thumpers.

[TracyCoxx]

You are such a darling conservative, Tracy :-)

No, Barack Obama is not a socialist - so very far from

Bullshit.

Al Sharpton: "We would have to say America overwhelmingly voted for socialism when they voted for Barack Obama."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqojWrtnieI

By now I think the fact that Obama is a socialist is blindingly obvious, and the fact that you Obama lovers haven't realized it yet only shows how far you've got your head buried.

[TracyCoxx]

Patiently waiting for Tracy to abandon the party of "they can't do anything either" and get on the Obama Bus. A future where all Americans can get a Hand up. not a Hand out.

Oh I think November will be quite productive. And conservatives have always been for a hand up rather than a hand out.

So way to go dems. I've always wondered where the DEMOCRA part of democrats came from. Certainly not from DEMOCRAcy because it seems that whenever necessary they abandon democratic principles and go socialist totalitarian dictator on us. The only thing bi-partisan about national health care was the opposition to it. Despite Obama's promise to have health care debates out in the open without back room deals, that's exactly what happened even though democrats had a super-majority for so long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwrzsLYt-uI

[Talvenada]

Bullshit.

Al Sharpton: "We would have to say America overwhelmingly voted for socialism when they voted for Barack Obama."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqojWrtnieI

By now I think the fact that Obama is a socialist is blindingly obvious, and the fact that you Obama lovers haven't realized it yet only shows how far you've got your head buried.

TRACY:

Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Unemployment Comp., and Welfare are Socialism. Health Care is Socialism.

All Socialism is evil? Canada, UK and France are NOT Communism, Marxism, Nazis, and dictatorial enemies.

As a Libertarian, you want all socialism eliminated. How 'bout people being turned away from emergency rooms based on ability to pay? Isn't that Evil Socialism to save someone's life who cannot pay on the spot for it?


TAL

[TracyCoxx]

TRACY:

Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Unemployment Comp., and Welfare are Socialism. Health Care is Socialism.

All Socialism is evil? Canada, UK and France are NOT Communism, Marxism, Nazis, and dictatorial enemies.

As a Libertarian, you want all socialism eliminated. How 'bout people being turned away from emergency rooms based on ability to pay? Isn't that Evil Socialism to save someone's life who cannot pay on the spot for it?


TAL
Social Security is supposed to be a backup retirement plan, not plan A. But so much of your money goes to relatively safe, low yield SS that for many people that's the only retirement they can afford, and it's inadequate. Give people the freedom to make their own retirement decisions. And if someone chooses to blow their savings on Bon-Bons why is it my responsibility to bail them out?

Medicare and Medicaid are fine, but it would be better handled by private industry with regulations.

Unemployment Compensation... why cant people save more? In our society we put so much on credit cards, we buy homes and cars with loans and put ourselves in so much debt, and when we lose a job we're screwed. If we saved more and limited ourselves to buying things we can actually afford there wouldn't be so much need for unemployment compensation would there?

Welfare gives millions of people an excuse to sit on their fat ass and not try to get a job.

And you may think national health care sounds good now. That's because all the gotchas come after BO's first term so they don't mess up his re-election bid. And let's face it, it's all about him now isn't it? That's what he told responsible democrats who were not going to vote for Obamacare until he strong armed them and told them how bad it's going to make him look if Obamacare doesn't get passed. After 2014 get ready to pay out the ass for health care. And before then, your health insurance premiums will go up because insurance companies know they are going to get screwed from Obamacare so they will spend the next 4 years raising their rates.

Unless Obamacare is struck down in court, which is very likely to happen. 37 states are objecting to Obamacare and several have filed lawsuits against it. Obamacare excludes the Amish and Christian science people for their religious reasons. But if you're catholic and object to it because it takes your tax money and pays for other people's abortions you don't get to opt out because of your religious reasons. This is a clear violation of separation of church and state where congress shall make no law favoring any religion over another. And many individuals will file law suits because the government simply has no right (assuming the constitution means anything) to force them to buy health care.

And even if it does somehow bypass all these constitutional potholes, the fact is it will not lower the deficit like BO claims. That's ridiculous. It will raise our debt even more, which we cannot afford, and it will lower the quality of health care for the 85% of Americans who are satisfied with their health care.

It's not as simple as democrats claim: Do you want free health care?? Sure, why the hell not?

If they were truthful about it the question would be: Do you want more expensive health care that's lower quality than what you currently have?
Hell no!

And that's what the vast majority of Americans are telling their lawmakers. But they failed to represent their constituents, and that's why there's the Tea Party movement - No taxation without representation!

[jimnaseum]

The Majority of people favor the Health Bill.

Hee hee hee Haw haw..Hee hee hee Haw haw....

[jimnaseum]

Karl Rove was on MSNBC this morning trying to explain how bi-partisan his Administration was and how pissing a trillion dollars into the Iraq sand was more Noble than funding a trillion dollars for the Health of 32 million Americans.
He took a cheap shot at Chuck Todd on his way out and compared Savannah Guthrie to the vacuuous Bimbos on Fox News.
Looks like the Grand Old Party has been reduced to the bitter snarls and insults of the TeaBag Party.

[Talvenada]

Social Security is supposed to be a backup retirement plan.

Medicare and Medicaid are fine, but it would be better handled by private industry with regulations.

But they failed to represent their constituents, and that's why there's the Tea Party movement - No taxation without representation!


TRACY:

Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid in ANY FORM are SOCIALISM, Tracy.

The RR law to NOT turn away people from the ER is socialism, Tracy. Pure capitalism is to make money, not save lives. Ins. Cos. are there to make a profit off of your life, death and sickness. Give a sick person insurance, not in America under pure capitalism.

Teddy Roosevelt & Dick Nixon wanted health care, aka socialism, Tracy.


So, save the socialism-is-Stalin BS for conservative drones.

I say there is good and bad socialism, and we will always differ.

Libertarians believe that you find anything, and everything you can to not give anyone government aid until the pool of people is too small to help even ONE person.

Yeah, the tea party is little old ladies who wouldn't harm a wing on a fly.

Imagine how they are being slimed as slurring congressman: 3 black with the n-word (1 spit on), 1 gay, 1 Mexican. In the face of a man with Alzheimer's, is that even possible? Bricks thru windows of congressional offices of Dems who voted for health care. Assassination threats to congressmen and their families. Point is that they don't want to use fire arms on these dumbocrats for health care. All they are asking in the nicest way possible is for them to change their vote from for to against. That's all they want is to kill the bill, and not the people who passed it.


TAL

[TracyCoxx]

The Majority of people favor the Health Bill.

Hee hee hee Haw haw..Hee hee hee Haw haw....

Now come back to the real world.

In U.S., 45% Favor, 48% Oppose Obama Healthcare Plan
http://www.gallup.com/poll/126521/Favor-Oppose-Obama-Healthcare-Plan.aspx

[TracyCoxx]

Karl Rove was on MSNBC this morning trying to explain how bi-partisan his Administration was and how pissing a trillion dollars into the Iraq sand was more Noble than funding a trillion dollars for the Health of 32 million Americans.
He took a cheap shot at Chuck Todd on his way out and compared Savannah Guthrie to the vacuuous Bimbos on Fox News.
Looks like the Grand Old Party has been reduced to the bitter snarls and insults of the TeaBag Party.

And the dems continue to lie. Seriously... I have never seen such a large group of consistent liars. Tell me again how much Bush spent on the Iraq war?

[TracyCoxx]

TRACY:

Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid in ANY FORM are SOCIALISM, Tracy.Not ANY form. Only in forms that are run by the government. Look up the definition of socialism.

The RR law to NOT turn away people from the ER is socialism, Tracy.It is in part. It is also hospitals raising rates for patients with insurance to pay for those who don't have insurance.

Pure capitalism is to make money, not save lives. Ins. Cos. are there to make a profit off of your life, death and sickness. Give a sick person insurance, not in America under pure capitalism.Insurance companies (yes I'll take the time to type it out just for you) are there to fill a need. People need medical coverage, they are there to provide a way to do that. Yes... big shock, it costs money to do that. Muh ha ha ha... yes MONEY!!!! Ha ha ha!!!!

Libertarians believe that you find anything, and everything you can to not give anyone government aid until the pool of people is too small to help even ONE person.Libertarians believe that you actually have to have a balanced budget. We don't have a balanced budget, therefore WE CANNOT AFFORD NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE! Is that so hard to understand? That you have to pay for these services? If it's not evil corporations paying for it, then it's the government paying for it. Either way the money comes from us, or as the democrats, progressives and socialists would like - from China. Libertarians have the audacity to say we have to pay for our own lifestyle. If we didn't have a debt and had positive money flow, then yeah, national health care would be affordable. But right now our country is broke and we have to get spending under control.

Yeah, the tea party is little old ladiesIs that what they're showing on CNN these days?

Imagine how they are being slimed as slurring congressman: 3 black with the n-word (1 spit on), 1 gay, 1 Mexican. In the face of a man with Alzheimer's, is that even possible?
What are you even talking about?

Bricks thru windows of congressional offices of Dems who voted for health care.
What was that quote? Something about if the government does not serve its people, the people have a right to revolt? These people do not feel that their representatives are representing them. Whining about a few bricks.... They should be glad they are not being forcefully overthrown.

[GRH]

I'm sorry, I just can't take the babbling of Retard-icans seriously.

[Talvenada]

[QUOTE=TracyCoxx;139349]Libertarians believe that you actually have to have a balanced budget. We don't have a balanced budget, therefore WE CANNOT AFFORD NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE! Is that so hard to understand? That you have to pay for these services? If it's not evil corporations paying for it, then it's the government paying for it. Either way the money comes from us, or as the democrats, progressives and socialists would like - from China. Libertarians have the audacity to say we have to pay for our own lifestyle. If we didn't have a debt and had positive money flow, then yeah, national health care would be affordable. But right now our country is broke and we have to get spending under control.QUOTE]

TRACY:

So, you were against The Iraq War, right?

We could not pay for it!!

TAL

[jimnaseum]

Listening to Tracy quote Fox News is like listening to Sarah Connor explain how the Terminator came back from the future to destroy all Mankind.

[The Conquistador]

What was that quote? Something about if the government does not serve its people, the people have a right to revolt? These people do not feel that their representatives are representing them. Whining about a few bricks.... They should be glad they are not being forcefully overthrown.

Egads! Someone here actually reads the Constitution!

[TracyCoxx]

TRACY:

So, you were against The Iraq War, right?

We could not pay for it!!

TAL
I was against it for the reasons given. I don't know if those are the real reasons though. I expected Iran to be attacked after Afghanistan. But I could see the logic in invading Iraq next. The stated goal was to attack countries who harbored terrorists. This had a lot of support from Americans at the time. The three main countries in the area that harbored terrorists were Iran, Iraq, and Syria. If we had Afghanistan, then if we took control of Iraq we would have access to Iran from two sides, and Iraq also borders Syria. If that was the reason for attacking Iraq, then I supported it. Either way, we did get Saddam.

If it was for getting non-existent WMD that did not threaten national security, so in that case, no I wouldn't support the Iraq war. If it was part of the war on terrorists, then yes I would support it because protecting national security is not discretionary spending.

Listening to Tracy quote Fox News is like listening to Sarah Connor explain how the Terminator came back from the future to destroy all Mankind.

I am not quoting fox news. And the budget stuff is very rudimentary. Fox didn't invent the concept of a budget. Maybe you should start quoting sources - preferably reliable sources. You're not doing too well with facts.

[smc]

The stated goal was to attack countries who harbored terrorists.

I'm just wondering: if this is a reasonable justification for the United States to attack a country, would it also justify a Cuban attack on the United States? After all, the United States harbors one of the bombers of Cubana Flight 455, which was brought down by a terrorist attack in 1976, killing 73 people. The CIA later admitted to knowing in advance about the attack, and one of the bombers, Luis Posada Carriles, lives in Miami.

I ask this only because I find Americans often reserve for the United States "the right" or the "justification" for actions that they would not afford to other countries. I do not ask this as a statement of support for Cuba, or in any way taking sides in the Barack Obama debate in this thread.

[TracyCoxx]

I'm just wondering: if this is a reasonable justification for the United States to attack a country, would it also justify a Cuban attack on the United States? After all, the United States harbors one of the bombers of Cubana Flight 455, which was brought down by a terrorist attack in 1976, killing 73 people. The CIA later admitted to knowing in advance about the attack, and one of the bombers, Luis Posada Carriles, lives in Miami.

I ask this only because I find Americans often reserve for the United States "the right" or the "justification" for actions that they would not afford to other countries. I do not ask this as a statement of support for Cuba, or in any way taking sides in the Barack Obama debate in this thread.

I think there is a difference. When Bush talked about countries who harbor terrorists, I'm pretty sure he was talking about major terrorist groups. Not individual terrorists. Since 1998 Bin Laden's terrorist group has been at war with the US. Since al Qaeda is at war with is, we have justification to fight back. Only thing is they have no country. But they are allowed to exist and train for continuing war with the US in certain countries. Some of these countries even provide arms and intelligence to al Qaeda. I think we are perfectly justified to go into those countries and hunt down al Qaeda.

Besides, isn't Luis Posada Carriles in custody now? If not he has been a few times, so it isn't exactly like the US is giving this individual full support.

btw, I'll bet Afghanistan with Taliban rule and Iraq under Saddam Hussein didn't didn't think we were justified to invade either, but they had no problem with these terrorist groups attacking the US. So if the US hypothetically harbored a major terrorist group, it wouldn't be the only country that had the double-standard.

[smc]

I think there is a difference. When Bush talked about countries who harbor terrorists, I'm pretty sure he was talking about major terrorist groups. Not individual terrorists. Since 1998 Bin Laden's terrorist group has been at war with the US. Since al Qaeda is at war with is, we have justification to fight back. Only thing is they have no country. But they are allowed to exist and train for continuing war with the US in certain countries. Some of these countries even provide arms and intelligence to al Qaeda. I think we are perfectly justified to go into those countries and hunt down al Qaeda.

Besides, isn't Luis Posada Carriles in custody now? If not he has been a few times, so it isn't exactly like the US is giving this individual full support.

btw, I'll bet Afghanistan with Taliban rule and Iraq under Saddam Hussein didn't didn't think we were justified to invade either, but they had no problem with these terrorist groups attacking the US. So if the US hypothetically harbored a major terrorist group, it wouldn't be the only country that had the double-standard.

I would hardly agree that Posada is strictly an "individual" terrorist, since he is part of the Cuban American National Foundation, which employs a so-called education and advocacy group as the front for a long history of terrorist activity. And Posada is not in jail. In 2005, he was held in Texas for being in the country "illegally" (not on terrorism charges), but an immigration judge ruled that he couldn't be deported. He was released on bail early in 2007. His latest "trial" is scheduled for later this year.

But the guy has been a CIA operative for decades, and has been convicted in absentia in other countries for his involvement in a host of various terrorist attacks and plots, some of which he has even admitted to (such as several bombings in 1997 of hotels and nightspots in Cuba). And it is clear that he was trained in the United States (after all, he was involved in the Bay of Pigs invasion).

It's an interesting discussion when double-standards are involved, eh?

[qw6666qw]

But it is!

[jimnaseum]

Maybe you should start quoting sources - preferably reliable sources. You're not doing too well with facts.

My diseased brain is my source!!!
When it comes to American Politics, you have one of two choices- Democrat or Republican. Otherwise you're just talking about the weather.

Barack Obama's SAT score was 1530. His IQ qualifies him an invitation to Mensa. He went to Harvard Law School, Constitutional Law. President of the Harvard Law Review. When he dated Michelle his Toyota had a big hole in the floor on her side. He legislates toward 2035, not 1835.

So Tracy, you may be right about everything. So what!!!?? Who do you want to be President in 2012?

[jimnaseum]

I remember hearing that Saddam Hussein said Bush W was hampered by the fact that it takes at least eight years for the leader of a country to figure out what's going on. (that's where we fooled him, Bush NEVER knew what was going on, some backroom branch of the Republican Party called all his shots)
I think it took 14 months for Obama to figure out what's going on. I hope he takes on the Republicans like WAR. I sincerely hope he starts FIXING all the things Bush broke. That little rat prick. I hope he fixes healthcare, wall street, schools, economy, every thing but the middle east. We'll design an electric car instead.
And I hope it's all tied in together, and Americans start to understand what's going on. Because right now the Republicans are defending all the things that are screwing this country. Did they graduate High School, or what?
Cheering Sarah Palin is like admiring Tori Spelling's acting career.
Time for Obama to IGNORE the Tea Party. Leave them jumping up and down in the dust. Let them whine. Fuck 'em. Hang up on their bullshit. Let the Republicans have them. Give them rope. Watch them hang the Republicans in November.
You saw what happened when Obama went into a room full of the most powerful Republicans in Congress last month. He was THE MAN. All the Democrats have to do is hang onto majority of the house and senate in 2010. By 2012- LANDSLIDE.
God bless you and God bless America.

[CCC]

I hope all your wishes come true Jimbo so that in the fall the Tea Partyers, the Republicans and All the Independants can gatther together and tell you liberal minded people where to go.

I think something has screwed your reasoning processes up so much--very sad :(

[smc]

Forum Rule #4 states:

Do not post people's personal information, or attack people personally, stick to the issues. Do not threaten or put down other users. We strive to make this a friendly place.

This thread can continue with sharp political discourse, but I urge everyone to walk that fine line between, for example, calling ideas "idiotic" and calling another member an "idiot."

[The Conquistador]

Is it walking the line in a political discussion if I mention that my balls itch?

[jimnaseum]

Bionca called me a douchebag and NOBODY complained!!!!!!
I object!!!!!!!

Actually, while name calling, yelling, and flaming is bad for people's feelings, it is great for getting stuff done in Congress. All the stuff you wanted to do but were afraid to try, you can slip it through while your staunch opposition screams foul continuously. The Republicans have been crying Wolf so long and so loud, when they have a real case nobody notices. Rational Independents are going to be sick and tired of Republican whining by November.


C'mon and turn it on, wind it up, blow it out GTO
Wa-wa, (mixed with "Yeah, yeah, little GTO") wa, wa, wa, wa, wa, wa

[tslust]

Is it walking the line in a political discussion if I mention that my balls itch?
mmmm I'd like to help you with that.;):innocent:
Bionca called me a douchebag and NOBODY complained!!!!!!
I object!!!!!!!
And your point is...:lol:
JK:kiss:

[TracyCoxx]

So Tracy, you may be right about everything.See you can be right sometimes ;)

Who do you want to be President in 2012?
Not Obama. Not a progressive or far left liberal. But not a bible thumper either, but given a choice, conservative bible thumpers are always better than progressives.

Even Sarah Palin and all those religious wackos-turned-policicians would be better than a progressive, and they're a theocratic nightmare. Except for Huckabee... he wants to make the constitution conform more to the bible. It's got to be someone who takes the constitution to heart and recognizes no matter what personal background they may have, the constitution represents the fairest way to govern people of all backgrounds.

Until I see who's running in 2012, I think a conservative libertarian like Ron Paul is what the country needs right now. But I'd like someone with his politics with better leadership qualities.

[TracyCoxx]

You saw what happened when Obama went into a room full of the most powerful Republicans in Congress last month. He was THE MAN.
LOL you're talking about when republicans and many democrats stood against him on the healthcare bill forcing BO to make backroom deals with his own party to support him? LOL oh yeah... that's THE MAN haha

All the Democrats have to do is hang onto majority of the house and senate in 2010. By 2012- LANDSLIDE.
God bless you and God bless America.Not gonna happen. Your time is coming to an end :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=662R2awSwPQ

[jimnaseum]

Nice Flic, I love a good comedy.

If you want to know who is going to keep the House and Senate this fall go to the one sure source..........LAS VEGAS!!!!

Oddsmakers give big props to the Dems this November, bet with your head, not your heart.

If I voted for the guy that best fit my style and opinions I'd write in Daffy Duck on my ballot.

I make racist jokes, I sin all the time but when I vote I vote for what's RIGHT.

[TracyCoxx]

If you want to know who is going to keep the House and Senate this fall go to the one sure source..........LAS VEGAS!!!!Ooooh you shouldn't have said Las Vegas :lol:....

Las Vegas Mayor Rejects Obama's Invite to Meet After Anti-Sin City Remarks

Tensions between President Obama and Nevada elected officials over the president's anti-Sin City remarks escalated Thursday when Las Vegas's mayor refused an invitation to meet with Obama when he arrives in town.

"I've got other things to do quite frankly for my constituents here in Las Vegas who rely on me to do the right thing as a mayor," Mayor Oscar Goodman told KTNV Action News.

Goodman was invited by the White House to meet the president on the tarmac when he arrives Thursday night and to the town hall event scheduled for Friday, Goodman spokesman Jace Radke told FoxNews.com, adding that the mayor would consider the invitation if Obama promised to apologize for his remarks.

Goodman has said that Obama is no friend to Vegas and would not be welcomed there if he visits.

"I'll do everything I can to give him the boot," Goodman said. "This president is a real slow learner."

Goodman told KTNV that he was a bit surprised to receive an invitation after his widely reported reaction to Obama's comments. But the invitation hasn't softened his anger.

"I haven't heard an apology, I haven't heard a response. All I do is get invitations," he said.
(http://www.ktnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=11996202)

[TracyCoxx]

Former President Clinton on Sunday broadened his warning that Tea Party protesters could feed violence reminiscent of the Oklahoma City bombing, suggesting "right-wing media" and the blogosphere could be culpable for any future politically fueled extremism as well.
We shouldn't demonize the government or its public employees or its elected officials. We can disagree with them, we can harshly criticize them. But when we turn them into an object of demonization, we increase the number of threats.
The debate over and passage of the health care overhaul this year has coincided with an increase in threats against lawmakers. According to a recent report, lawmakers reported 42 security incidents from January through March -- lawmakers reported only 15 cases in the first three months of 2009.

This problem does not originate with people randomly inciting violence towards the government. It stems from Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and other democrats who said to hell with what the people want, we're voting for national health care and stimulus packages. Mr. Clinton, your warning is a bit late, and to the wrong people.

[jimnaseum]

A vote for Ron Paul is not a vote for the Republican Party. Neither is a vote for Sarah Palin. Republicans have been trounced the last two major elections. And now they're going to be forced to vote against their buddies on Wall St. Mitch McConnell always looks like he just took a big dump in his pants. The face of the Republican Party.
You can bet Obama is going to expose Republican weaknesses in Sept/Oct while our boys start coming home from Arabistan and Stimulus dough gets spread around. What the Tea Party does means nothing. They are NOT the voice of the People.
The second half of Obama's first term will be interesting.

PS
Do you still have a J-O-B Tracy? You seem to have been busy lately.

[TracyCoxx]

PS
Do you still have a J-O-B Tracy? You seem to have been busy lately.

There's just nothing new with BO. The space industry is waiting to see how congress reacts to BO's changes in space policy. He had them waiting for his Apr 15th space speech at KSC. It was another dud. He says ok ok ok... I'll allow the Orion capsule to be built, but it will be launched unmanned to the space station and never used except as an emergency flight back to earth. Gee thanks. So far congress thinks his ideas suck, so I'm hoping they tell him to go on a long TLI with a short burn time.

[jimnaseum]

Before Obama is done a lot of people are going to be out of Business, China is coming up in our rear view mirror and with their 1.3 billion people vs. our .3 billion people, they're going to do to us what we did to them. Houston, we have a problem. Just from an economic point of view, in fifty years we are going to be in trouble. No matter who's in charge.
When Tea Party Libertarians say STOP SPENDING, they're talking about NASA, I think. Aren't they?

[TracyCoxx]

When Tea Party Libertarians say STOP SPENDING, they're talking about NASA, I think. Aren't they?

Even conservative libertarians know a good investment when they see one. Investing in exploration usually returns new technologies and resources. After BO tried to can the constellation program House Representatives sent the Nasa administrator a letter telling him to cease all activities canceling constellation. That they were not in favor of it, and that it still needed their vote. Ron Paul was one of the signers of the document.

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=33477

[TracyCoxx]

Government economic forecasters took a look at what national healthcare will do to us. They concluded it will not control costs as BO hoped and costs will actually rise. Is anyone surprised?

The report also projected that Medicare cuts could drive about 15 percent of hospitals and other institutional providers into the red, possibly jeopardizing access to care for seniors. Again is anyone surprised? BO & Pelosi told congress not to worry about the $trillion price tag. It will cut costs. Congress actually fell for it! What a bunch of fuckin amateurs.

PS... what's this latest buzz I hear about BO wanting power to take over any financial institution without any kind of review? Sounds like another step on the way to socialism.

[jimnaseum]

You have Health Insurance, Right Tracy? Why? Because the Govt is funding Nasa to "pull a wall st" and justify itself as indispensible to America. The Govt pays for your Health Care. Did the forefathers endorse Nasa?
We'll see what National Health Care does, I hope it scapes all the human waste off the sidewalk and puts them to work, instead of drinking wine and going to taxpayer funded jails. I hope we're one step closer to Communist Health Care. You think the Insurance Companies don't come between you and your doctor? Health Care is not going to GET fucked up, healthcare IS fucked up. I got stories.
There are areas where Republicans and Democrats overlap, I make racist jokes but I defend ALL American's rights and that brings us to Illegal Immigration, one topic Obama doesn't want to tackle right before elections. It wouldn't bother me if they built a fifty foot wall between us and Mexico with machine guns and sniper rifles, and deported every dude that hung around Home Depot for daywork. Republicans and Democrats are fighting over the Hispanic Voting Bloc, and big business likes the fact that illegal immigrants will work hard for 5 bucks an hour. Buisnesses like the fact that mexicans buy beer, gas, food, rent. Me, I say make this a club witrh dues. There's nothing wrong with taxes and insurance. Just make sure people pay their fair share.

[smc]

PS... what's this latest buzz I hear about BO wanting power to take over any financial institution without any kind of review? Sounds like another step on the way to socialism.

Political discourse would be so much better if people actually used terms correctly instead of adopting them as soundbites for the purpose of whipping up the more ignorant among the citizenry (by which I mean most of the citizenry, by the way).

Today's editorial cartoon in The Boston Globe:

[TracyCoxx]

I hope we're one step closer to Communist Health Care.Even communists have to pay their bills. We are over $12 trillion in the red and cannot afford national health care.

You think the Insurance Companies don't come between you and your doctor? Health Care is not going to GET fucked up, healthcare IS fucked up. I got stories.Insurance companies have come between me and my doctor since Clinton.

There are areas where Republicans and Democrats overlap, I make racist jokes but I defend ALL American's rights and that brings us to Illegal Immigration, one topic Obama doesn't want to tackle right before elections. It wouldn't bother me if they built a fifty foot wall between us and Mexico with machine guns and sniper rifles, and deported every dude that hung around Home Depot for daywork. Republicans and Democrats are fighting over the Hispanic Voting Bloc, and big business likes the fact that illegal immigrants will work hard for 5 bucks an hour. Buisnesses like the fact that mexicans buy beer, gas, food, rent. Me, I say make this a club witrh dues. There's nothing wrong with taxes and insurance. Just make sure people pay their fair share.

Why just the Mexicans? You think just the Mexicans want work here? There's millions, billions? in the world who are under the poverty level, threatened by drug lords or dictators, etc, who would like to come to America. Why can't ALL of them come here without going through the immigration office before becoming an American? Tell me that???

[jimnaseum]

Even communists have to pay their bills. We are over $12 trillion in the red and cannot afford national health care.

From where I stand, the American Revolution is the same as the Communist Revolution. We want to decide where the tax money goes, not King George taxing us to pay for his wars in Europe. We can afford to go to Mars but can't afford to give 30 million American citizens basic Health coverage?

Insurance companies have come between me and my doctor since Clinton.

Before that

Why just the Mexicans? You think just the Mexicans want work here? There's millions, billions? in the world who are under the poverty level, threatened by drug lords or dictators, etc, who would like to come to America. Why can't ALL of them come here without going through the immigration office before becoming an American? Tell me that???

The Janitors I used to work with were Engineers and Executives in Africa, they jumped through hoops to come here legally. We don't have anything between us and Canada. Mexico is it's own thing. Seeing bunches of Mexicans in front of 7-11 or sharing a house in my neighborhood, I'm a redneck on that. I have no problem sending them to concentration camps, but the shear numbers and the fact that they just come right back when you deport them makes it more than a philosophical question, even Reagan gave them amnesty.

Part of what makes me sick about the Mexicans is you know they're illegal and yet nobody seems to want to do anything about it. It's like fighting the tide. I think the teabaggers better think twice about who us and them are. I KNEW Bush and Cheney were pricks from Day One. I think alot of baggers were surprised Republicans considered them "working class losers" even though they gave them there vote. Joe the Plumber was a fool. Obama spoke to him in person in a big crowd. No Republican would go into a crowd without 100 secret service agents. As long as Mexicans stay in my neighborhood, nobody but me cares. Republicans stole every cent while they were in charge, fuck the statistics, you know I'm right. WE ARE BROKE! What do you want to do, go Nazi? Obama needs six years to fix Bush's fuckups.

[ila]

Part of what makes me sick about the Mexicans is you know they're illegal and yet nobody seems to want to do anything about it. It's like fighting the tide. I think the teabaggers better think twice about who us and them are. I KNEW Bush and Cheney were pricks from Day One. I think alot of baggers were surprised Republicans considered them "working class losers" even though they gave them there vote. Joe the Plumber was a fool. Obama spoke to him in person in a big crowd. No Republican would go into a crowd without 100 secret service agents. As long as Mexicans stay in my neighborhood, nobody but me cares. Republicans stole every cent while they were in charge, fuck the statistics, you know I'm right. WE ARE BROKE! What do you want to do, go Nazi? Obama needs six years to fix Bush's fuckups.

Now this just has me confused. You have at least eight different thoughts in your post and not one of them complete. I'm really trying to figure out what you mean.

[smc]

Now this just has me confused. You have at least eight different thoughts in your post and not one of them complete. I'm really trying to figure out what you mean.

My advice, ila, is to find a better use for your time. :yes:

[jimnaseum]

My advice, ila, is to find a better use for your time. :yes:

You're absolutely right.

[TracyCoxx]

Part of what makes me sick about the Mexicans is you know they're illegal and yet nobody seems to want to do anything about it.I agree that both parties are wrong about illegals. Democrats are downright pandering to them, and Republicans hope the problem just somehow goes away, but are also trying to get the hispanic vote. Which is another thing that confuses me. Hispanics who came here legally are also pissed off at all the illegals who are here. It seems to me that republicans, and democrats too, would want the much larger voting block of people who are here LEGALLY. You know, like not only hispanics who are here legally, but the vast majority of US citizens who are fed up with all the illegals here. Doesn't that voting block matter?

Joe the Plumber was a fool. Obama spoke to him in person in a big crowd. No Republican would go into a crowd without 100 secret service agents.Wake up. Any candidate will talk to joe blows in a crowd and kiss babies. I'll tell you the difference between republican and democrat presidents... no make that the difference between Bush and Obama because not all democrats are this bad. After the columbia shuttle broke up on reentry, Bush came to Johnson Space Center in Houston and gave a speech there in the middle of Nasa. Anyone who worked there was allowed in and anyone of us working class losers could get within 5 feet of him. Bush also toured the other buildings in the center and spent some time there.

When Obama went to KSC to make his speech, his people told everyone who worked in the building he was giving his speech in to take the day off. They weren't allowed anywhere near there. And the audience were hand picked supporters of his space policy. Obama only spent 45 minutes there and then went to spend 2 hours at a fund raiser. Again your perceptions have no basis in reality.

As long as Mexicans stay in my neighborhood, nobody but me cares. Republicans stole every cent while they were in charge, fuck the statistics, you know I'm right. WE ARE BROKE! What do you want to do, go Nazi? Obama needs six years to fix Bush's fuckups.
Obama is waiting for the time to be right to naturalize all of them.

[TracyCoxx]

Damn. Again so close, yet so far. Gotta do better...

[TracyCoxx]

I think this applies to followers of Obama the Massiah (http://forum.transladyboy.com/showpost.php?p=128440&postcount=1309) too:

Brain Shuts Off in Response to Healers Prayer (http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20627574.200-brain-shuts-off-in-response-to-healers-prayer.html)

[TracyCoxx]

Obama to Virginia college grads:
With iPods and iPads and Xboxes and PlayStations -- none of which I know how to work -- information becomes a distraction, a diversion, a form of entertainment, rather than a tool of empowerment, rather than the means of emancipation,Why can't the self proclaimed technology president learn how to use these simple very user friendly gadgets? And what's wrong with iPods & iPads? There's a ton of really useful things they can do.

On another technology related subject, I find these two quotes interesting:
We are a land of moon shots and miracles of science and technology that have touched the lives of millions across the planet.

I'll change the posture of our federal government from being one of the most anti-science administrations in American history to one that embracesscience and technology.

Bush put us on track to go to the Moon and Mars, but
Obama budget ends return-to-moon plan

WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama is essentially grounding efforts to return astronauts to the moon...

BO as usual puts on whatever act he needs to get elected. He had a blackberry and knew how to use Internet Explorer. Bam, he's the Technology President LOL.

[jimnaseum]

Bush put us on track to go to the Moon and Mars


If Bush hadn't totally fucked up everything, maybe your personal career plans wouldn't be in jeopardy now. If you really need a job, Tracy, drive on down to the Gulf beaches. They need lots of people to mop up the mess your Big Oil friends made. Technology at it's finest. LOL.

[TracyCoxx]

Now you're even blaming America's dependence on oil on Bush? LOL might as well, you dems & commies blame everything else on him.

[The Conquistador]

Fat comicbook store guy says:

[ila]

Fat comicbook store guy says:

You're right Postman. This thread has pretty well run its course and is no longer serving any useful purpose.

[smc]

You're right Postman. This thread has pretty well run its course and is no longer serving any useful purpose.

I was going to ask other Moderators in a PM whether we should shut down the thread, since it has devolved from a genuine -- albeit sharp and heated -- discussion -- into name-calling primarily between two members. However, since ila posted above, I've decided to make this opinion public.

[ila]

I was going to ask other Moderators in a PM whether we should shut down the thread, since it has devolved from a genuine -- albeit sharp and heated -- discussion -- into name-calling primarily between two members. However, since ila posted above, I've decided to make this opinion public.

I think that the thread should remain open. Hopefully it will soon die and go to thread heaven (the back of the forum).

[smc]

I think that the thread should remain open. Hopefully it will soon die and go to thread heaven (the back of the forum).

I don't think it will die, unless one of the two main participants simply stops posting. There is too much invested in the back-and-forth denunciations. But let's leave it be.

[jimnaseum]

I say close this thread...and get back to serious matters. Like Jacking off to Shemales!! Haw Haw Haw.

I could make a pretty good case that this entire forum is an insult to the transgender community. But hey -Who Cares? Haw Haw Haw.

[ila]

I say close this thread...and get back to serious matters. Like Jacking off to Shemales!! Haw Haw Haw...........

You've got a good point, jim.

[jimnaseum]

Long Live Obama!!! Peace Out!!!.....

[shadows]

I could make a pretty good case that this entire forum is an insult to the transgender community. But hey -Who Cares? Haw Haw Haw.

I think most(if not all) of our transgendered members would disagree with your assessment.

[aw9725]

I could make a pretty good case that this thread is an insult to reasoned political discourse. :lol:

Let's close it and start a thread on Kelly Shore. Wait, we already have a thread on Kelly Shore... Well let's start another! :drool:

[Natalie_J]

I could make a pretty good case that this thread is an insult to reasoned political discourse. :lol:


Does anybody come here for reasoned political discourse? I somehow doubt it :)

If we can have a thread about Obama maybe we should have a thread about the UK's new PM 'Dave' Cameron - knowing the high level of education that exists in this country I'm sure it wouldn't degenerate into name-calling at all...

[TracyCoxx]

Leave it open. And I won't post in this thread again unless BO does something seriously stupid.

Ok... maybe that will be too soon, but I'll refrain from commenting unless he does something more boneheaded than normal.

I return you to your regularly scheduled self-pleasuring :coupling:

[smc]

I am closing this thread for a while. Independent of the unfortunately low level of political discourse it has engendered, it has afforded opportunities (unfortunately, ones that have been taken) to introduce implicit and explicit racism, especially on the part of one member. Just as we do not tolerate ungendering, so should we not tolerate racism.